Breaking Down the NYC Mayor's Race - podcast episode cover

Breaking Down the NYC Mayor's Race

Jun 10, 202548 minSeason 4Ep. 9
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Episode description

The battle for New York City's future is heating up as former Governor Andrew Cuomo faces off against progressive challenger Zoran Mamdani in what's shaping up to be an unpredictable mayoral race. With ranked-choice voting, multiple candidates, and current Mayor Eric Adams making a last-minute decision not to run in the Democratic primary, the city's political landscape has never been more complex.

At the heart of this contest are two fundamental issues dividing voters: public safety and housing affordability. Crime rates remain about 30% higher than pre-pandemic levels, with highly publicized random attacks continuing to make headlines. This concern propelled Adams to victory in 2021, and Cuomo has positioned himself as the experienced leader who can restore order while actually delivering results. Meanwhile, Mamdani represents a new generation of progressive politics, promising municipal housing construction with union labor and free citywide bus service – policies that resonate deeply with younger voters feeling priced out of the city they love.

The demographic divide in this election couldn't be starker. Older voters, particularly in Orthodox Jewish and Asian American communities, prioritize safety and stability, while younger transplants demand affordability and fresh approaches to governance. What's notably missing is engagement from traditional power centers – the business community has largely retreated from public advocacy, while unions show diminished influence compared to previous election cycles. This vacuum creates space for new movements but raises serious questions about coalition-building after the election.

Despite these challenges, there's reason for cautious optimism. The city shows signs of pandemic recovery, with rebounding tourism, increased subway ridership, and renewed street-level energy. As one journalist noted, "New York is not at a moment of profound crisis" – but it does face serious obstacles ahead. The outcome of this election will reveal whether America's largest city can navigate these challenges and create an effective template for urban governance that other cities might follow. For a nation watching closely, New York's choice represents far more than just a mayoral race; it's a referendum on the future of cities in American political life.

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Transcript

Introduction to NYC Mayor's Race

Speaker 1

The Feudal Future .

Speaker 2

Podcast .

Speaker 3

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Feudal Future Podcast . I'm Marshall Teplansky .

Speaker 2

I'm Joel Kotkin .

Speaker 3

And Joel . Today we're going to switch to the East Coast . We're going to be talking about the New York mayor's race , and to help us with that we have two esteemed journalists . We have Nicole Gelinas , who is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute , and Harry Siegel , who is a Moynihan public scholar at City College of New York .

Both of them are members of a group called the New York Editorial Board , which is looking at the mayor's race and the dynamics within it . Welcome , we're glad you could be here , Joel . You want to kick us off ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , obviously it's going to be a very exciting race , but I just want to ask you is it actually clear that Cuomo , if he is the leading candidate , will be able to survive all the trail of awful that he's left behind himself ? Is that going to be an issue , or is he going to win no matter what ?

Speaker 4

We're going to see . For us who are following it closely , it's really interesting and there's lots of twists and turns . Um , cuomo has a primary , a democratic primary , coming up at the end of june . Early voting starts 10 days before that . He's been way ahead in the polls , uh , but the money spending has just started .

It's a ranked choice primary , so if the candidate you rank first doesn't win , your vote goes to who you rank second , third , fourth , fifth , and a lot of the Democrats are sort of clustered together .

There's an incredible Wizard of Oz shot at them , four of them linking arms when they were getting the Working Families Party endorsement the Working Families Party endorsement .

Right now , zoran Mamdani , who's the farthest to the left of the many , many other candidates , has sort of emerged from that group as the winning contender or alternative to Cuomo , and he's raised a lot of money , and in small dollars , but is way , way behind , and he's got less than two months to close that gap .

However , while the Democratic primary is often the only game in town , in this instance the incumbent mayor , eric Adams , announced at the very last minute he would not be running in the Democratic primary . Having said right up until then , why does the press put words in my mouth , of course I am . He's not the most reliable narrator , let's say so .

He will be on the ballot , certainly in November . Then , in the event that Cuomo does win the Democratic primary which is farther to the left , obviously , than the general election , though not as much necessarily as people think the Working Families Party may try to run its own candidate , perhaps Mamdani , perhaps city controller of Brad Lander .

If Mamdani wants to be the alternative to Cuomo , lander is still hoping to be the alternative to Mamdani , if there's some lid on the young socialist assembly members' support . There's a third centrist , this fellow Jim Walden .

There's Curtis Sliwa of Guardian Angels fame , if that's the word for it , as the Republican nominee , and so that could be , and that is not in November rank choice . Anything it's a winner . Take all . So if you have five candidates there , you only need so many votes to win . So all this is in some sense very exciting and interesting .

In other senses it seems a little haphazard and absurd . Basically , no one's talking very much about Trump cuts and the budget proposal he's just laid out . That would be devastating to New York . The mayor just passed his quote or introduced , excuse me , his best budget ever . That doesn't account for any of that .

The governor is about to has announced a deal in concept for a very weight state budget that increases spending . That doesn't account for any of that , even while acknowledging hey , we'll probably have to go back in the middle of the year and change this .

So , while people in the political class are very engaged and a lot is at stake , how competitive this is , how exciting it is to the broader city , frankly , I think , remains to be seen . Sorry , that was a long crisis , but there's a lot happening .

Speaker 3

That's what we really wanted to focus in on with Nicole . You've looked at this from lots of different perspectives . What is the tenor of the voter ? It strikes me

Cuomo's Campaign Strategy

that we're in such an unprecedented time politically on a national level . What is it from a voter perspective that's going on ?

Speaker 1

The tenor of the voter is the New York City voters are consistently fed up with the lack of criminal justice enforcement in both the perceived and the real disorder on the streets since the COVID lockdowns .

The COVID lockdowns coincided with major reforms to the criminal justice system that were enacted between 2017-2019 , but they didn't take effect fully until early 2020 .

So very hard to separate the anti-social impact of the lockdowns and kids being out of school for an hour and a half and all kinds of dislocations , people not being able to get their mental health care from the city government for a long time with the impact of the criminal justice reforms . Where does that leave us ?

Five years later , and after we already had a post-COVID mayoral election , felony crime is still roughly about 30% higher than it was in 2019 .

And , just consistently , we have greater disorder perpetrated by people who have had involvement in the criminal justice system before , either been arrested many , many times and or been through the city's mental health uh infrastructure I don't know if you want to call it a system .

For example , just this week , pregnant woman in chelsea , one of the city's wealthiest neighborhoods , bashed in the head with a metal pole by a stranger on the street during the day , stranger had been arrested eight times , including last year , for attacking another random woman in a sexual attack .

These things are much more common than they have been in most people's living memory , so that is still driving the electorate . That is why people picked Eric Adams four years ago . And people say how did we end up with Adams as the mayor ? People knew that he had flirted with corruption when he was a state senator .

He had many irregularities in his political past , as Harry talked about in the columns he wrote for the Daily News when Adams was first taking office , sort of warning us about the cronies he was surrounding himself with in city hall and in his own police department as he took the mayoralty .

Uh so people , why did people pick adams , even though they kind of knew this ? Because he was the only candidate in 2020 , 2021 , running on a law and order platform that we will make the city as safe as it was before COVID . He has consistently laid the blame at the feet of the state government for having changed these laws .

A new police commissioner constantly talking about how sane people are out on the streets to re-offend again and again . What does this have to do with this year's race ? People still want that at least . According to all of the polls that rank people's highest priorities , public safety and quality of life rank at the top all the time .

Cuomo is the one who is positioning himself to be a more competent version of Adams that I will be the law and order candidate , but I actually know how to do things . I did things as the governor for 11 years .

The hitch in this is that Cuomo was the governor who signed into law , these reforms that made the criminal justice system more lenient be coming from the center , not from the left . But that's really not happening . And you know why ? Despite all of this , do we still have a risk of getting a left-wing mayor , mamdani ?

Because he's young , because he's optimistic , because he's fun and because people just are not tired of him . And so , despite everything that people want and they say they want , as we go into this backlash against trump , will people go in there and say you know what , I'm tired of cuomo , I'm tired of adams .

I don't care about this guy's ideology , I just want a new face in here . So that's why it's really , as harry said , it is up for grabs , despite what the polls consistently say about cuomo you know , I just , I just I think about .

Speaker 3

You talked about political memory and I remember back to the kind of bonfire of the Vanities era where we had a similar level of discombobulation of the city , which basically led to Giuliani Right and so , but we didn't have a federal government that was as far to the right at the time , and so it's kind of an interesting contrast this time around .

Go ahead , Joel .

Speaker 2

You know I've been talking with Harry about Mondani and you know , because I'm very interested in this question which has national significance , which is is the Democratic Party morphing into essentially a left wing socialist party like a like Mélenchon in France ? Or you know , even Corbyn Starmer maybe make too much sense to to fit this mold ?

But I mean , you know , harry , can you explain a little bit about Mondani and what his appeal is ? And you know , because I always would think that he would be a traditionally he'd he'd be a fringe candidate and for our non-new york listeners , right , maybe just a little background . Yes , yeah , that would be helpful absolutely .

Speaker 4

Uh . So trump won the presidential election , as listeners may recall , and that is very helpful . As it's turned out weirdly for both Cuomo and Mamdani I'm going to introduce him who both very much like the dynamic that this is a choice between the two of them . It has helped Mamdani tremendously .

He was a young guy with a very limited record and a biography out of a biography rather out of a Tom Wolfe novel . You know he's the son of a named chair professor at Columbia , the extremely anti-colonialist , anti-israel named Herbert Lehman , professor of all things and a famous filmmaker . He's a young guy . He had a small rap career .

He grew up in part in Uganda . He's in his early 30s . He was elected to the assembly by winning a low turnout primary in probably the reddest district in the state that's , the lower of the two houses of New York's legislature and he's accomplished , frankly , very little since he's been there .

He was involved in a free bus pilot program with one bus line in each borough . That Mike Gennaris , the very powerful , like number two guy there , was the driving force behind it , though Mondani was really involved . He did a hunger strike on behalf of cab drivers who just were getting murdered by Uber and what had happened to their medallions and so on .

It's a longer story . That was the outside game . It was helpful , along with other mayoral candidates playing the inside

Crime and Public Safety Concerns

game and getting them something of a better deal . That's it . Those are this man's full accomplishments to date , along with putting out very appealing videos and running a very impressive campaign . The promises he's offering are unbelievably vast .

All the other candidates are talking about housing things you know , from like 200,000 units to a million in one case that involve what developers would be allowed to build and thus we would have in New York , mamdani's is . The city is going to build this and we're going to do it all with union labor too .

And this goes on and on Free buses citywide , which you know this pilot program proves which is always a big thing on the left that a small pilot you know . Hey , we can just scale this thing up effortlessly .

What's been missing from his appeal and I've written a bit about this and everyone else's because they're running for office is the sense that we're about to have much tougher decisions ahead considerably less federal money coming in and thus less money coming through the state .

It's been something of a bidding war , but all the other candidates thinking a little about rank choice and a little little about a general election and when Adams won in the last time around in 2021 , by the way , as Nicole was mentioning , you know in , safety was definitely the number one concern and the question now really is it safety or affordability ?

On some level , those are clearly the two big issues . He fundamentally won in the Democratic primary Among Democratic registered Democrats in New York who bothered showing up for a primary right . There was no question public safety was the issue that got him there this time around .

As I said , there could be both the primary and the general , but like Mamdani's appeal is like the John Lindsay line Shout out to the great . Passed on Jack Newfield . You know he's fresh and everyone else is tired . He's not triangulating his appeal . He is actually activating enthusiastic young people who think all these politics are stale .

These people are exhausting and do we want the present creepy mayor who surrounded himself with horrible cronies and like a series of neck and ass grabbers Excuse my language , but they are documented ? Cuomo would probably have a Drew Cuomo like , with some real accomplishments but an exhausting record to the Democratic Party basically exiled .

He says he was pushed out by them and , by the way , also has his own separate line . So if he loses the primary he can still run in the general as insurance and because in New York you can vote for candidates on multiple lines . Long story . But the short of this is there's a tremendous amount of uncertainty in our politics .

He has actually built enthusiasm and interest from people who haven't been participating . That's been his theory of the case .

I think there's a lot that's disqualifying about him , but I also have tremendous respect for what he's done in terms of engaging voters , interesting people who checked out or never been involved in our democracy in a way that nobody else in the race seems to be trying to be doing .

And while Cuomo is running a real Rose Garden campaign , that's all about getting sort of bosses together in a room , staged events , limited press and like what choice do you really have ? And for him , having Mamdani is the other part of that . What choice do you really have is wonderful .

And Mamdani doesn't say defund the police , but like his public safety interests are very much around the idea that police have nothing to do with public safety , if you dig just a little , and I think that's very problematic . Last thing I'll say notably is there hasn't been all that much examination of his , as I said , very limited record .

It's really been a narrative driven race .

Uh , the post has taken a number of big swings and misses , uh , and when there was a piece that came a little closer , uh , that involved him being doing the soundtrack for a disney movie because his mom is there and and faking a South African accent in a South African interview in one clip and another boasting about how he'll sit .

He'll be whatever you want to hear and I'll be your mirror talking about a student election , but the sort of stuff that in a contest where the candidates were actually going at each other you'd be hearing all about this vanish without a trace .

Socialists , people on the left , never had to engage with it because they didn't even know what happened , and I think that speaks to some of the weird dynamics in New York City and the kingmaking within the Democratic Party that locks out a lot of the voters .

And people will have some of these concerns , probably starting with say let's go to , let's go to Nicole on this .

Speaker 2

One thing I'd like to ask Nicole in particular is what is the business community thinking about this ? I mean , you've got a city that is not doing well economically . I know the numbers , both on migration and jobs and anything else . A city has a lot of challenges . How are they reacting to this dynamic ?

Speaker 1

Well , this is part of how the business community if there is such a thing , along with many elite factions , has kind of made itself publicly irrelevant . Just go beyond since COVID started and all these dislocations , but go back to 2008 . This I think we are .

We are where we are because of 2008 and our bipartisan failure to deal with the real social eruptions that cause , on both the left and the right , that nobody liked these banks being bailed out , so they have been . They don't say anything controversial in public since 2008 . All they want to do is not have nobody pay attention to them .

So on something like , something like should the Roosevelt Hotel be housing 2,000 unvetted migrants , including young men and teenagers , who are constantly getting themselves into scrapes in Times Square in places that have had very low crime for the past few years ?

Now we sort of have underage people robbing and menacing people , and this is real , and if you say it's not real , that's how you get Trump . Was it a good idea to plunk thousands of migrants into the middle of a city that is still struggling to recover from these lockdowns and get people back to work ? A more courageous business community ?

You'd have these banks and these law firms , and you know saying this is not a good idea , and you never heard that

Mamdani's Appeal to Young Voters

. You had these like these kind of mealy mouth . Oh , you know , we hope to help get the migrants jobs and so forth . I mean , they haven't taking a stand on anything and I think you see that mirrored in so many law firms just bowing down to Trump .

It's like , whatever your principles are , whether we agree with it or don't agree with it , it's just not clear that they have been able to articulate or stand behind any principles over the past 15 years . And that's even . We have a state budget that has a massive tax increase .

Kathy Hochul , when we're not officially in recession , tax revenues are still coming in . She has just increased a payroll tax on downstate businesses , literally a tax on jobs . She raised an extra billion and a half dollars or so for the MTA .

Speaker 2

It doesn't apply to upstate , just to downstate .

Speaker 1

Yes , it's a downstate payroll tax , but we've had a much slower recovery than the rest of the country . I mean , we have less than 2% job growth since 2019 . The country is closer to 5% .

So to enact a massive tax on jobs and basically have nobody complain about this or even pay attention to it , it sort of shows you the strange vacuum of public attention and , in some cases , press attention to things that in another era would have gotten a lot more attention , and that feeds into the mayoral race .

I don't see a lot of people sitting around saying , boy , I wonder what the business community thinks of this . To the extent that people are anxious about jobs and anxious about taxes and costs , it's because they feel that in their own life .

You know , we just don't have a politically powerful business constituency like we used to have Now , on the other hand , businesses whose business model depends on corruption they are much more powerful than they used to be in the city .

Speaker 2

And that has fed into the Adams administration . I was just curious what businesses are you talking about ?

Speaker 1

In terms of companies wanting favors from the Adams administration and we've seen the allegations of illegal corruption , which were obviously dropped but also things that are not illegal but are just very bad business practices .

No-bid contracts this is Adams loves to do these low-dollar , low dollar , no bid contracts , mostly with minority contractors , because and I only say that because this is a big part of his reelection you have all these ads all over the city .

Adams is good for the minority business community , so kind of small dollar , almost commodity contracts that are just given out by city hall , basically on a whim to spread , to spread the money around , basically , and create a small tech firms like really really , really small . Um , like they just they're doing this thing with panic buttons in bodegas .

Uh , you know , this is like a company that styles itself as a startup , and good for them . But the business model is you get the mayor to give a press conference highlighting your technology and that hopefully gets your business a little attention . I mean , that has kind of like bizarrely defined the adams administration it's very small ball .

Speaker 2

What's interesting , Marshall , is we see the same thing in California . My sense is , once a state becomes deep blue , the business community sort of it doesn't- .

Speaker 3

They disengage , a little bit they disengage .

Speaker 2

Because the that's what we deal with here in California .

Speaker 3

Yeah , the question really becomes what does it take to effectively govern in a place like New York and what does it take to actually create the kind of change that's required ? You really you need a certain level of scale when you're dealing with the nation's largest city . Piecemealing , it is not going to do it .

You need a broader set of engagement and what it sounds like to me is A the leadership class , at least from a business , private sector perspective , is not engaged and most of the rest of the people are burned out with a series of unmet promises .

And the people who are to look at what Harry was saying , the people that seem to be engaged , are kind of the children's crusade , right , the next generation of young people that are coming up saying , hey , this is my city , so it's kind of a grassroots changeover .

Speaker 2

But the question I have for both of you is and in California they are the most powerful group is the public employees . Where are they in this race ?

Speaker 3

Oh , that's a good question . Yeah , where are the public employees ?

Speaker 2

Because I know they're very powerful in New York . They're very powerful here .

Speaker 4

They're weaker than they were because there's a pretty obvious split between their leadership and their membership . So 1199 , which represents all of these health care workers , many of whom are not government employees but are sort of part of the greater government apparatus and Nicole mentioned their 2% job growth .

You know a whole lot of that is actually extremely weird . Health care provision jobs and home health aides that are essentially like a series of frauds in which you know people can get paid to take care of family members and so on . That are making our job numbers not correspond how anyone actually feels about the economy .

And there's reduced confidence there with crime numbers , with the whole number of things . And there's reduced confidence there with crime numbers with the whole number of things .

So I can't speak to California , but in New York some of the business community is hostage because Eric Adams , the sitting mayor , who they have to do business with , who's running for reelection in an extremely long shot way but is unbalancing things , makes it hard for them to push elsewhere With the unions .

One big one , dc 37 , just endorsed Adrian Adams , the city council speaker , who had a bid that was briefly exciting to the political class and has largely failed to launch , and this was sort of her last chance to claim momentum and reintroduce herself in the race , but it was more of a symbolic thing because they don't actually have the door knocking , get out

the vote organizational capacity they used to , and then Cuomo smartly waited until like the day after that to announce that 1199 , whose president was just voted out and who insisted but not even four years ago right that he resign as governor in Doris Cuomo and the one thing sort of canceled out the other .

The teachers union , uft , here is having a forum and like trying to have leverage . They've been very unsuccessful in recent cycles . Part of what is helping Mamdani rise again with real citizen organizing and enthusiasm for all .

My dubiousness is that the Democratic Party and its extensions don't have the juice they did to to competently administer or run things , to influence how people think or vote , and there's just an increasingly large and obvious space . I don't think it's so large that Mamdani breaks through .

By the way , I don't think there's a ceiling , but I think there's an awful lot of normies who are like Cuomo . That guy was okay during COVID and he wasn't Trump and he's a tough guy and he built things . And if many of those people rank him . All this becomes academic .

Very likely he gets the Democratic nomination and is then in a very strong position to run in a general , and he is close enough , on crime and disorder , to where the popular center is , which is way far from a lot of these candidates ,

Business Community's Disengagement

even as they're trying to like sort of tiptoe toward it that he's going to be hard to beat Curtis Sliwa , who's the Republican , the guardian angel guy . He was the Republican in 2021 . You know , eric Adams laughed at him and crushed him .

There's a number of reasons for that , but if , for all the conversation about this , for all the ways in which the center has collapsed since 2002 , in my view , and then 2008 progressively , I still think that Cuomo is like the normal guy and , by the way , he's older and diminished and you can see it , uh , when you're around him in ways that are striking have

not been widely observed to this point well , that's an interesting .

Speaker 1

Yeah , cuomo doesn't attend these mayoral forums , so almost every day I mean like like trump in the republican primary . Yeah , I mean , there's one of these forums like six candidates show up . You know they're , they're fine . I mean you , you can learn quite a bit about them , but cuomo doesn't show up because he feels he's all about this .

But the risk for him is that he does . He eventually gets on stage of a campaign finance board sponsored televised debate that actually does get some public attention . You know they'll run it right before the baseball game or whatever , and people will use clips from the debate for campaign ads . The clips will be on the news .

So even if you're not paying a lot of attention , this will be your introduction to the race . And if he hasn't been on the stage and bantering with these people and being challenged , he might look very rusty and he might not respond well to an attack or challenge or he might just seem out of it .

Who knows , maybe that won't happen , but there is a risk that he's going to get up there and look like Biden and people are going to say wait a minute . I've been told for six months this is the next mayor and he can't even deal with five people on the state . So I mean , if I were advising him I'd say go out and do some of these forms .

I mean just just it's just like writing . You get rusty if you are not doing it , and he hasn't been publicly challenged like this in , you know , six years and more actually .

Speaker 3

So I've got a question for you about the kind of contrasting the public safety argument and the affordability argument . So is there a demographic split on those two ? So there was two and I'm truly asking this because I don't know . And is the public safety issue resonating more with older voters and the affordability issue resonating more with younger voters ?

Speaker 1

And does that have a chance of kind of determining who's going to be pulled toward which candidate , depending upon their , their points of view on those two issues ?

Yeah , I think that's a good way of putting it the older voters as well as perhaps I mean this is a generalization , but maybe some younger voters who are Orthodox Jews , uh , orthodox jews or asian american and thus have been more fearful of being the victims of hate crimes in the past few years .

This is more of your public safety voters and your younger transplants to the city that have a sort of weird idealism . It's like a privileged idealism like whoa why shouldn't I be able to afford a two-bedroom apartment ? And it's not even affordability . It's more like a strange entitlement mentality that those are the Mamdani people Like .

If we get rid of this conspiracy of homeowners , we can afford the housing that we we desire . So it's very superficial , but I think that's a good way of putting the split .

Speaker 3

Harry . So if you look at the data of , if you just let's accept this demographic split between affordability argument and the public safety argument old , young , admittedly overly generalized but if you look at the data of who actually Well , the ethnic part is interesting too .

Speaker 2

Say it again , the ethnic part is interesting too .

Speaker 3

Yeah , the ethnic part . Well , from a hate crime perspective , but I'm also thinking getting stabbed in the subway is probably something that older people don't really like a lot , but . But ? But if you look at the data and the split in the in the voter profile , where are the numbers going to come from for those ?

Is it going to be there are more people , more younger people or more older people , and so which of those two arguments are going to end up showing up at the polls ?

Speaker 4

Well , older people have turned out consistently . The left has done a serious job of organizing younger people to show up and blowing up the math of having an extremely predictable voter base .

So there was a Queens district attorney race a couple of years ago where this real lefty , tiffany Caban , who's very much sort of against the carceral state and all that it represents and actually put out a flyer with Zora and Mamdani a few years ago being like if you see a crime , here's what you should do , and it was .

It was I don't want to sound cute , but it was much closer to give a hug and it's like don't call the police . That's how people get hurt , like what . She came super duper close after a recount to winning that race . That wasn't all that much covered . A little like AOC was probably . Ah , there's some natural ceiling there .

Speaker 2

But in Queens of all of the places right and Queens isn't quite as pricey as Manhattan .

Speaker 4

Yeah , so Manhattan is now the farthest left borough , as a astute analysis Michael Lange has noted , replacing the Bronx , which long held that that status .

There are a lot of shifts going on and I think there's real enthusiasm with younger people who are really upset by Israel's war in Gaza and , like a lot of them and Mamdani , well before October 7th , was talking about a genocide state I think he's got like an ideological and deeply addled view of this .

But let's say that it's a sincere , sincerely held view that many people who are either ideological or not and are just watching , you know , like footage in an increasingly connected world of atrocities and suffering and that sort of thing which is real , are sort of activated on these terms and don't feel seen or heard . You have up against that .

You have 1.1 million Jews here and the left loves introducing their Jews and centering them and being like this is the real Jewish community . I'm not saying those people are not Jews or anything like that .

I think that stuff's appalling and I think Cuomo , for instance , has flirted with it in really disgusting ways , but those are a distinct minority of these 1.1 million Jews . This is like bigger than Tel Aviv or Jerusalem . It's the biggest Jewish voting population in the world and I think that there is some ceiling there or some limits there .

But if a lot of new young people turn out , this could the primary in particular could be a very different and surprising result .

Nicole's absolutely right that Cuomo is rusty and you're going to have seven candidates , each one with eight to one matching or many of them Sorry , it's not everyone's qualified with like eight to one matching funds , running TV ads about what a goon this guy is , and there's a lot of stuff he's done that makes that feel real .

And then on a stage with him where they get , you know , collectively , like seven minutes of speaking time for every minute he gets , and he's not that well , he's used to being in Albany , it's insulated .

You sort of control the setting and the thing he's used to dominating phone conversations and off the record ones with reporters , including people like us , right , and suddenly he's not going to be monologuing . This has to be good enough .

There's a decent chance it will be , but it's a risky bet and if that doesn't happen , or even if it does in this primary , like this general , could be extremely weird and it just points to how broken down our democracy is . Well , we're talking about the national democracy and defending it .

I think there's real things happening there , but we may have just a sort of arbitrary and accidental result because of the weird and stupid systems we have , where 27% of like a not overwhelmingly impressive general election turnout or whatever , ends up deciding who's running the city for the next four or probably eight years .

And maybe it's a socialist , maybe it's a corrupt centrist , maybe it's Curtis Sliwa , who's wildly unqualified , had many marriages and a bizarre personal life that also involves Queens and the district attorney . I won't even get into that . Like it's all .

All things are very weird and we had a COVID election like this where where Andrew Yang you know , ridiculous , basically totally unqualified , never bothered , voting in New York , didn't know a damn thing , but that's serious People advising him .

Speaker 2

He had money .

Speaker 4

Hey , I'm dancing in ads . I'm smart enough . I'm smart enough , I'm good enough . You recognize me from tv , why not ? And he was . He was leading in the polls for a minute and that that's what let adams break through , along with some other things . This feels like another accidental election at a moment when new york really can't afford one .

It means we whistled past the graveyard in 2008 and covid and all that the idea we can just endlessly do so I don't think it's sunk in for new yorkers how high the are

Demographic Splits Among Voters

, how serious this are , like the level of vetting that's necessary , and pretty soon the ship's going to have sailed .

Speaker 1

You bring up two interesting things . One is I think it sounds cliche , but Mamdani is if he pulls this off , it will be the AOC strategy and people always say oh , say oh , why that doesn't work at a city-wide level .

It only works in a low stakes race where no one is paying attention and people don't mind standing sending a message because they know their congressperson doesn't really do anything where the mayor is actually supposed to do something . But how he could pull this off this time is again low turnout .

Everything Harry was saying really organizes people to vote , which is easier when you have early voting , when you have mail-in voting . So it's not like you know , if you've been smoking a bong all day on Election Day and you forget to vote , like you can still vote for that 10 days before and even over a longer time period .

Speaker 2

You have ballot harvesting yeah so that matters .

Speaker 1

I mean , he can really use that early turnout period to his benefit . But also secondly , and maybe even better than AOC from his perspective , he knows the city more intuitively than Yang did . You know Yang had run a national race . He had these weird ideas and that's good for him .

I I like people who have , you know , set ideas , but he kind of ran for mayor as a platform to showcase these ideas that had nothing to do in new york city , like a universal basic income and different way of funding national campaigns . And mamdani is very different in that he does know what a lot of voters are thinking about and worried about .

I mean , you go to cuny and you talk about free buses and people say , yeah , I think free buses are a great idea , like it's a really simple and obvious thing . I think he connects better than yang did in a more AOC-ish way .

Speaker 4

So those two things make him more credible .

Sorry , nicole , I just wanted to say that , as we're recording this and sorry to be peeking at other screen windows , the Daily News is reporting that AOC is beginning pressure from the left to weigh in now , when the maximum impact moment is , and she obviously doesn't want to go with a loser , which is what happened sort of desperately in 2021 , for complicated

reasons we don't need to get into . But she's just met the news is reporting with Mondani and Brad Lander she has a long and pretty close relationship with , but right now this is his last chance not to be the also ran or the bridesmaid in this contest in the left , to at least be the competitor to Cuomo , and so I think she may be coming in soon .

And you know , I'm sure , from Maldoni's perspective , where his whole thing has been this hustle to be like look momentum , excitement and media presence , I can convert those into real things and position a lot of his appeals look what a good race I'm running . If I can do that , I can do it . And the guy is all around the city .

He's taking the trains , he's talking to people , he's engaged in small d democratic ways , he's reading all of our stuff , he's showing up in hostile outlets and meeting with the post editorial board and like pissed off cops with the podcast , uh , in the new york editorial board and like coming off like I'm not stupid , I have some idea what I'm saying .

I could defend elegantly my positions in a two minute setting . I think that's ridiculously insufficient for the job because you're not running to be chief performer but like he's clearing those bars pretty easily and cuomo , like the whole bar is going to be these debates and a handful of ads and like sort of reputational snuff .

It's a very weird dynamic that's going to clarify very shortly and and mondani is hoping aoc could be what helps get some over the top and just into a face-to-face . Where he's close enough he can close the rest of that gap .

Speaker 3

I'm dubious but it's not not counting it out as we move close to the end of this , um , I'd like to ask you to look past the primary , look past november and give us some thoughts on is the city actually governable , how whoever wins ? Is this actually a governable how whoever wins , is this actually a governable place ?

Because we've seen , we've read a lot of stuff , some of which you guys have produced that kind of throws your hands in the air and says you know , we're looking at large cities and blue states as not really being governable and what's your feeling about ?

Speaker 2

that Just to add a little bit to what Marshall's saying , one of the things that worries me and I'm thinking , of course , of Los Angeles , where I lived for 40 years , and I know I probably know LA better than I know New York at this stage but but what I wonder about is you know you mentioned the lack of the business community who's left in New York ?

You know all those people who might have voted for Giuliani who are now either dead or living in Florida , all the middle class ? or indicted , or the middle class people who get married and for a while , and then the people work for the government .

So is the basis for improving the city , the electoral basis , the social basis , is it eroding to a level which make it very difficult ?

Speaker 4

um , I think I can combine those two and then I know we're getting there . So so nicole really gets so much . I think should have the last word here . Yeah , the city is totally governable . It's been governed reasonably well and quite recently it's a very nice place to live right now .

In a ton of ways , andrew Cuomo is running on a city in crisis campaign and crisis campaign it's like a troubled city in real and worrisome ways that are not just psychology , as you know .

The incumbent mayor naturally wants to claim , but it would take some real will and it would take some real pressure on the Democratic Party blob to get there , and maybe that's Cuomo who has his own hostility to it . Maybe it's a socialist like Maldoni who isn't really part

Future Governance of New York City

of it and is just using its primary process in effect . But , joel , if we could have six-story housing everywhere , that would be awesome Statewide . Kathy Ockel just had and failed to pass like a plan for accessory dwelling units . There's some basic and simple solutions to the place .

The pressure we're under is a sort of crazed and vindictive not always wrong , not always stupid national government that wants to exacerbate every ungovernability problem and then say you see how these people are , while cutting off funds and resources while letting his wonderful taste in enemies this president , like a venal political class , make bad decisions that exacerbate

its own problems and then insist that the thing we need is a stronger hand and like the right father figure which is also what Cuomo is running as , as a Democrat , to get us there . But I think in an honest sense , new York is not at a moment of profound crisis .

There are serious obstacles ahead and like dangerous cyclical trends and you and I have talked about a bunch of them and the forces that are spreading people out from cities . The crime rate , which is real . The problems with those statistics , so that the disorder , I think , is worse than those numbers show . The affordability issues .

The economic ones the Google doesn't play the role which basically owns Chelsea now , like a previous business community did .

But for all that , if people show up and vote , if people take these elections seriously and there's some indicators they will and if people are serious about withstanding the pressures that are coming from Washington , deciding what's really important to maintain and preserve and this isn't just lip service and governing efficiently and well to make that happen , thinking

about waste , fraud and abuse and those sorts of things , what are we actually getting something from our money from . I think the city is plenty governable . I'm even mildly optimistic for its future . But we'll see .

Speaker 2

Nicole , last word .

Speaker 1

Absolutely . The city is governable . Who has replaced the giuliani voters of 30 years ago ? Uh , it will be . Let's see . Yeah , it is three decades actually more like , more like five decades , uh's still outer borough people , but they're a lot more likely to be Chinese , american , indian American , some but , as Harry explained , not all of the Jewish community .

You know people who often run their own small business . You know , maybe , a small retail business or services business , restaurant . They are bogged down in regulations that they see as in many cases pointless , and they own their home so they're worried about public safety and disorder .

And their kids are in the public school so they want some kind of standards to be upheld in the public schools , which are actually not so bad . But things like the exam schools .

You know , getting into these exam schools , like getting into Harvard , a big subsector of the Asian American community really wants to keep those exam schools because this is their kids' path to Harvard . So those are kind of today's Giuliani-era voters .

And one element of inconsistency that throws yet another element of unpredictability into this is maybe it's just me and I'm behind everyone else , but this is the first few months that I felt like there's a real shift in the city where people feel good , that the city does feel finally recovered from COVID . People are back in Manhattan .

They keep saying tourists aren't coming because they're boycotting America , but I run into European tourists everywhere . You can barely walk on sidewalks . Even the Chinese tourists are back and it's like you know . People are out at clubs , they're out doing things , they're having fun .

Even the subways because of congestion , pricing , subways are much more crowded than they were a year ago and subway crime is down . I mean , there's just no room to stab someone on the subway right now . It's just it feels different just over the past few months . So you have this weird environment where Adams could sweep in and say you know what ?

Things are not so bad , just stick with me . And that is also a . There is a compelling case for that . I mean , he's finally got a competent police commissioner who is having significant results , and so do people just wake up from not paying attention to this election and say I'm overwhelmed by Trump , I'm overwhelmed by a million things .

The city is not massively worse than it was four years ago . So let's just stick with this guy and you know we'll leave the decision for another four years .

Speaker 3

Well , we'll have to revisit this after the primary Well we're looking forward to getting back with you after we see what's going on .

Speaker 2

Yeah , because you know as we know we , I think you know this whole process of you know can big cities be turn around and be governed ? Is , I think , a huge question and you know , hopefully New York will get there faster .

Speaker 3

Well and maybe create an effective template that others could use . Right right , certainly could use that here in Southern California .

Speaker 2

Like you know , in the 90s , when you had Lanier in Houston , you had Giuliani in New York , you had Reardon in LA , you know you had a lot of very good , strong mayors . We don't have them now , but San Francisco may be the first sign of that something can change .

Speaker 3

Well , harry and Nicole , thank you so much for your time . Thank you for joining us and giving us your insight , and thanks for being on the Feudal Future podcast .

Speaker 1

The Feudal Future podcast .

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