Music. Hello my name is Last underground the secretary-general of facts and I have the pleasure today to welcome mr. yossi beilin with the distinguished political scientist and politician in Israel who will talk to us about the tragic developments in Israel on October 6 7 but also the experience of the previous decade regarding negotiating peace took the belt in welcome to Fab stocks and I would like to ask you briefly to introduce yourself for listeners. My name is yossi beilin I'm a full moon
Israeli Minister among the other Ministries I was the Minister of Justice the minister of economy I initiated the Oslo process in 93 and dr. Biden is a great pleasure for us that you have witnessed and you can share your thoughts about the current situation in Israel but since you have this distinguished experience in Italy politics and government and also explicitly peace negotiation
I would like to start with the question of comparing the current crisis with previous one how does the current tragic stage compare in your view with previous crisis in Israel I'm trying to to think about a proper answer for your question and I don't have one because I cannot compare it to anything that I remember maybe you need a bigger perspective in order to see things and then you can say this resemble say something but it resembles only 911
hi I think that the feeling of the Americans that they were safe there was an island that nobody tried to Photon their own territory.
And suddenly everything is endangered and and so many people are killed in the Twin Towers and the Pentagon is part of it is ruined and almost that the White House was had the pilot the not be mistaken and went to Pittsburgh and then there is a feeling of vulnerability which is which is very deep nobody expected, I mean eventually of course that the heads of the intelligence and the Army will have to resign but mainly because it was on the oh God.
I don't think that others would have easily pointed such a scenario because there were some axioms about the the enemy and they have the ability to do something like that with all the new technology which was invested in their offense and in other things between us and Gaza all these didn't work and the enemies of everybody I mean even those countries in the Arab world which are.
Now criticizing Israel and whatever since I know most of the leaders I know what they told me about about Hamas in the past they were the ones threatened me personally on think be very careful about Hamas you are to nice to them you must be tougher because they are Isis and you know people are especially peace the peace camps are trying to find the common denominator, human beings and human beings let us work together what do you really want can we compromise you know all these things which
identify us and and rightly so and here you find people who don't want to talk to you in the past after the Geneva initiative was was signed. There was a kind of a funeral.
On Fridays every Friday for three months they would March from the mosque to the big Square in Gaza with the coffins of yesterday double my partner on the Palestinian side and myself because the peace the peace Knicks, how their biggest enemies they don't want anything they don't want a two-state solution for God forbid it for them all the things that way and end the moderate Palestinians. It would like to have is for them the worst solution so this is why it is so difficult.
To find president because usually people want from you something. When there is animosity they want to get some part of the lane recognition whatever they don't need any recognition they don't want any land I believe it's very difficult to speak at this moment about peace since you were very active in the period of the Oslo process I would like to ask you to look back a little bit to this period maybe this was the last time when there was a lot of Hope.
And people believe that there would be some kind of compromise some kind of lasting sustainable solution can we take some lessons or inspiration from this period of the Oslo process one of the most important lessons is that one should not be enchanted by The majorities Who I want peace I will support base that take care about the minorities which will endanger their own lives, in order to thwart.
The efforts of the peacemakers I think that we did not understand it as simple as as it is I mean one would say it is so obvious that people who are zealots, and ready to endanger their lives will do whatever they can even things that you don't think about like what the barrage 10 did in 94 in the cave of the Patriarchs, and killed 29 Palestinian worshippers and Israeli doctor I mean why he believed that we were the traitors. And did he kept in guarded the length.
And then after 40 the 40 days of the Muslim mourning period. The beginning of the terrorist attacks and the suicide bombers in afula in hadera and dozens of people were killed. So if you ask me it is not that the 90s were happy years in February 94. The massacre in Hebron was a kind of a dark Swan which surprised us we didn't expect it. We expected something else demonstrations closing groans you know things like that.
And that was the beginning of the big animosities which are accompanying us but took to speak about peace. Usually you speak about peace after War most of the peace treaties that we know from history where signed afterwards. Not after a hundred years of peace and love and you know the the world in many ways gave up on us until recently. And say okay your leadership with Netanyahu gave give me a break on the Palestinian side you have an old guy who became a dictator.
And he has a very very weak machinery and doesn't have a real Following come a see to us later now since there is no wall and there is no fire all the time and you manage the. We have other conflicts to deal with of course it was Ukraine that nobody's dismisses. That day so people were not ready to listen to us when I when we came Palestinians and Israelis to Europe few months ago suggesting the idea of an israeli-palestinian Confederation.
We will not help, and you know I can compare it to the Geneva efforts in in 2003 where the whole world was ready to listen to us although it was an informal a draft now when we came with the Confederation people did not listen to us because they gave up on the on peace in the Middle East. At least for a while including President Biden. And now you see that the whole world is here in the Middle East every prime minister every for minister.
Is they'll coming and talking to the Palestinians and talking to us and asking us what can we do and you are interviewing me and and it means something, it means something that the world understands that we are seeking, only in a very we are living in a very dangerous place which may explode tomorrow, while we know the solutions for all the issues in the last 30 years. We will both formally and informally in finding solutions for all the things which had been seen.
Unbridgeable Jerusalem refugees the border and you name it and we found Solutions which means that people of Peace on both sides can easily and quickly. I believe that you don't need more than one year to finish the world. For example on Geneva we have 500 pages of nx's on water on the compensation for the refugees. Everything environment you name it I mean I'm not saying that the decision makers of the future will take it as he's.
But the material is there you don't have to reinvent the Wheel by now we know the solutions you mentioned Benjamin Netanyahu and I would like to ask you how much depends on the leaders because in the 90s you also with Robin you've worked with Shimon Peres, and what is the importance of having an inspirational leader.
On the top for this although you can never dismiss the others there is nothing more important than the leaders you know after, after the game David failed effort to make peace in, I met with President Clinton he told me the way he saw the Camp David Summit or because I was not there and they he told me that at a certain moment there was an offer suggested to Yasser Arafat and after reading it.
He came to the to the president to President Clinton I told you mr. president if I accept your offer you will come to my funeral and I asked Linton okay what what did you say to him. And he smiled and he said what could I say and then after a moment he said you'll see what would you say to him. And I say with all due respect I would say so what. I mean if you don't have courageous leaders who are ready to physically risk their lives.
In order to make peace you will not make peace the presidents of King Abdullah the first of Jordan of President Sadat. Of so many people in our part of the world who sacrificed their lives because they wanted to make peace. If you are not ready for that forget it all the plants in the world will not help I must admit it is very primitive am I just for people.
To risk their lives but if they don't understand that piece for their own Nations is much more important than the rest of their lives then nothing will happen.
Will it pass from the Readiness of leaders and people who would negotiate what else would be the preconditions for a new peace process no precondition is you don't need to prepare for years, for the moment in which the two sides who know each other by heart even at any oven and Abu Mazen they know each other it is not something you you know as it was in Oslo that for the first time we met with the PLO officials or something like that
and and we came to the conclusion that nobody had horns on his head, hey this is not the situation we are the veterans of the talks we know exactly what kind of people we are going to meet on the other side, so we don't have to prepare ourselves what we need is to be courageous enough and sit together and and find a solution the moment we put preconditions it is the end of the story, you refer to the role of the United States but also the Europeans What could,
or should the United States and the European Union do better or differently in order to facilitate a new place process. First of all it is very very important that it will be high on their agendas. This is the first thing I mean just to come as they come now and didn't do that in the in the recent past. To come to go to the Palestinians to go to the Israelis to understand what are the obstacles.
To suggest meetings to suggest a kind of a Madrid conference or other conferences which took place in very important Madrid conference for example was very very important. Because it launched the whole process of the bilateral talks for the first time. And the multilateral talks on the economy on environment on water and other things and all the Oslo agreement. Was part of the Madrid process. The main date we got from secretary Baker in 1891.
I was then in opposition but the Mandate that they the Palestinians and Israelis got from Baker was to suggest a 5u autonomy for the Palestinians. So much so that when I came to to my prime minister to our Bourbon and I told him it's hot we have a partner let us not waste our time on an interim agreement which will be abused, by the lunatics on both sides and go directly to a permanent agreement he said I have to stick to the main date.
Of Baker you understand so so the Madrid conference was a milestone. And it is not by chance. That many efforts began in Europe the from the the Norway itself and also the Oslo talks. To the Swedish government which hosted Us in the negotiations between myself and president Abbas between 93 and 95. And the Geneva initiative which was signed in Geneva now don't forget that the Americans were not involved neither in Oslo Norway in our peace week that Jordan.
It's not that they were not daily involved they didn't know about it. They contributed a lot after the sad the signing ceremony, in convening other countries that the donor is stay they donor States in offering financial support and other, but they were not they did not initiate the processes, so if you ask me what should be done a lot can be done and not. And not all of these things are written in the books I mean the Oslo process was not written in any book.
And believe me I taught many years in University in foreign affairs and political science I didn't find anything like that and Readiness to be involved in in non-conservative processes. Secretly on all openly you know inviting us Palestinians and Israelis together. To to Seminoles just to talk to talk between them. To talk to the public to meet with the decision-makers who used to do that this this is something that we used to do in the 90s a lot.
In which almost stopped not totally but almost stopped. Now this is not just nice to have in these seminars you develop. Not only they relations which are very important between the parties but you share with the hosts. The problems that you are having the obstacles and you may get answers to them I mean the knowledge in Europe, of the israeli-palestinian conflict is huge is huge. And it is not used enough so I would say.
Pay attention to us take a us into into account understand that if nothing happens the worst may happen as it happened a month ago. And let us work together once we have an agreement about your role Europeans. Or Miracles I mean in many ways Europe gave up to the Americas. I held it directly for the most important people in Europe in the EU. Put on music The Americans want to deal with it and and we will not move without their consent. And it is up to them and what happened is paralysis.
The country that the conflict at the Mill is did not was not on the agenda at all. And in America they said I mean what are we going to do with this baby I mean anybody believes that he will make peace no Obamas and became an old dictator. And sticks to the status quo. And got with him also we are not going to see as a breakthrough in peace so let us wait we don't have the time to wait.
Looks abandoned I would like to thank you for these thoughts I hope your voice will be heard because I think it's a shared interest to look for the opportunities to relaunch a peace process and the experience you shared us about the 1990s but also subsequent efforts should be very useful for anybody involved in this today will tomorrow. And I hope we have future opportunities as well to exchange views about this difficult situation they're waiting thank you very much thank you. Music.