Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, where we discuss the top political headlines with some of today's best minds. And Vladimir Putin lives to Oligarch another day. What a show we have for you today. The New York Times David Leonhard gives a gut check on the volatility of the primaries and how fast they can turn.
Then we'll talk to North Carolina State Senator Representative Rachel Hunt on her run for lieutenant governor in North Carolina and why that states Jerry Mander is so messed up. But first we have the host of the Next Level, the Bulwarks, Tim Miller. Welcome back to Fast Politics.
Tim Miller, Hey, good to be back, Molly. I'm just going for that gold jacket.
You know.
That's right, I'm going for it.
We have a special gift we give out two guests who come on the podcast numerous times. It's a gold jacket nine times.
I'm going for that, right.
So let's talk about the Chris Christie presidential run. I feel like the Republican field it's like a messy bitch.
It is a messy bitch. The party is messy bitch. I mean literally, MTG called Lauren Bobert a little bitch this way the house floors. If we're exaggerating.
She was like, in my defense, she is a little bitch.
The Republican campaign. I think we can break these groups down into a few categories. And there's the first category, which is people that are trying to get famous in Maga, in Maga world and maybe they'll get lucky and things will go their way. That's the vivek Ramaswami group, people of that nature that kind of overlaps with the grifting group. This mayor of Miami, you know, who seems to be a felon of like at least some alleged one.
That's right, So maybe he's had some problems. Yeah, I thought he was going to running to be Trump's VP.
We're getting into the tabinet, right, So like these people have some logical you know, the folks who are of Maga world. Then there's the category of delusional people, and that is I think the most dangerous category, depending on how delusional they are, and that's your Tim Scott's, Nicky Haley, Mike Pence will heard this group, I think because they're in this cloistered bubble of Wall Street Journal Republicans, they think the party is something there that it's not still.
I don't know if they've been in a coma for eight years. I mean, these voters literally tried to kill Mike Pence, and yet he thinks that they're going to now nominate him.
They were saying, elect Mike Pence, not hang Mike Pence.
Yeah, so I mean maybe Tim Scott thinks he's going to be VP. But the other folks, I think really are just wishing for a party that doesn't exist. And the question is will they get out enough time to realize that or will they stay in and harm you know, whoever emerges as a more prominent anti Trump candidate. I think there's an open possibility that there's a like a
literal Trump grift going with some of these people. And I don't have any evidence of this, so, you know, but conspiracy tims my goosebumps are starting to pop up a little bit on this with some of these candidates. It's like, is does Trump have a deal with you know, a little back room deal with some of these guys. Again, you know, no evidence, don't don't don't write any articles about this yet, but it's just that's something I think to keep an eye on.
It seems very possible that there is. I mean, we have seen a lot of times in Trump world when you suspect something sketchy is going on, you're usually right.
Yeah, I think that's right. The one person that doesn't fit that is Chris Christy, who you asked about. And I think that Chris christie situation is a little different, he said, Actually I quoted this in my book Osh I had it pulled up. But like he basically told in a podcast The Dispatch, like years ago, you know that, like when you leave the governor's mansion and the lights turn off, it's hard to replace that feeling right of being needed, of the media calling you. He's like, people
stop calling you, People stop you. And I think Chris Christy is just really needy and that he's right now for at least a short period of time, I have my aware of needing this for good in order to go straight out Trump. I wish he done it eight years ago. I'm not going to go over the top and praising him, because who knows, he could end up starting to move into the delusional category and start attacking other candidates besides Trump. But for now he's been doing
the right thing. He wants attention, He's getting attention.
You know.
I think he has a little bit an ego issue too. He wants to show that he's not actually Trump's beta bitch who just goes and fetches Hamburgers, that he's a man with dignity.
I think that is certainly possible. I want to ask you with this situation with Christy. He has this incredible ABC contributorship deal where he makes like almost half a million dollars a year. So there is the good of he's attacking Trump, right, but then there's the bad of, like he's also just trying to stay irrelevant, Like if he doesn't run this cycle, he doesn't get that contributorship again.
Correct. Yeah, I'm slogging away in the MSNBC salt mines over here, like you know, doing doing umpty hits a week. He shows up once a month, and ABC is gon half MILLI okay whatever, you know, It's it's just enough to make me go Bernie. Not really, but there is that motivation, for sure. There's a selfish motivation. And this is what I said, And me and Charlie got into
a little bit of a heated back and forth. You know where Charlie is, I think, very from a good faith place, is impressed and excited that we have somebody actually saying the same things who's inner Republican primary that we've wanted Republicans to say for eight years. I see that perspective. I just know Chris Christy, and I'm skeptical of him. I mean, he is he has sees somebody that that basically tanked all the other candidates to help Trump in twenty sixteen. He's stuck with him, you know,
literally through near death Trump. You know, so this is not a trustworthy guy. You know, he's somebody that I can trust as far as I can throw him. And so you can imagine how far that is I can can even nudge him. I don't think. And so, like I said, I have a weary eye. But I will say him being on Fox, him today's at the Faith and Freedom of Conference we're taving on Friday, him going into the lions Den and saying these true things about Donald Trump serves some value. And I have to tell you,
I'll just say this, I loathe Chris Christy. I don't think I've given him a genuine compliment in about a decade, and so I want to give him just one right now. In this podcast, went on Fox and said about trans youth, you know, and finally said the actual small government thing, which is I don't get why Sarah Huckabee Sanders thinks that she knows better what should happen to teenagers than
their parents and their doctor. And I'm like, man, that's actually a small government conservative sentence that you would have heard maybe ten years ago from certain types of Republicans. Not all they're always Bible bangers, but certain types. And no one is doing that now. If he's going to say these things in Fox and It conservative conferences, Okay, I'm still cautious. I mean, I still think he might turn do a he'll turn and start working for evil again.
But for the time being, you know, I think that that there's in a symmetry between him saying the right thing and him getting the attention that he craves.
Right, it's useful if nothing else exactly, Primary field isn't even full, right, like Rick Scott is now toying wood jumping in. I mean, who is that for?
Rick Scott is one of the people I was thinking of when I mentioned my little spidey sense tingling on. Is there some background Trump deal happening right now? Because that's for nobody. I mean, he has no constituency. The only thing I could possibly think of that's not, you know, some kind of dirty tricks happening, is that some of these guys are egomaniacs and are thinking Trump might actually be in jail, like this stuff might drive him so
insane that he actually strokes out. And Desantas has looked pretty weak as a candidate, Yeah, weaker than we expected, and so why not just throw my hat in the ring and maybe the chips will come up? Rick Scott. Now, we all who are or not don't have narcissistic personality disorder can look at this and say, no matter what happens like like Trump. You know, Trump could be buried in the ground and Ron DeSantis could pee his pants on stage and Republicans will still not turn to Rick
Scott as they're saying there's no situation. But I can I guess understand while somebody like him, who thinks he's the greatest thing ever you know, could think could look at the Trump and de Santas thing and say, who knows? I think that's I think basically that's one possibility, you know,
super narcissism. The other possibility is that him and Trump have some deal going, and Trump knows that any one or two percent he can shave off at DeSantis, you know, makes his chances of winning it even higher.
Right, this is still really Donald Trump's primary.
I mean, he's very much in the driver's seat. I look at this with DeSantis. I've always been slightly more bullish on DeSantis than some of our friends who are like ready to say he's dead. It's like it's a long primary. There are plenty of times where Joe Biden looked like he was dead. I thinks has a lot of weaknesses.
Flunny. I mean, I actually wrote a piece that I really regret where I said because you know, Biden lost the first two primaries.
Yeah, we could go back and look what I wrote after New Hampshire. It wasn't pretty about old Joe Biden. It was not right either. So you know, I'm trying to learn from that be a little more cautious me too. I think that things could turn towards the Santas. Right that said, it does not look very good for him at all, and here's and here's what I'm seeing. Really, if you remember the Ted Cruz twenty sixteen, you know, Ted Cruz like really did well with the super evangelicals,
the super ideological Republicans, right. That was enough to win the Iowa caucus where there's a lot of religious voters, and you know, fewer people show up to Caucasus because they're complicated. And then he goes to New Hampshire, which has a lot less ideological voters, open primary people who just kind of liked the the WrestleMania element of Trump, right, and Trump slaughters him. Go to South Carolina, Trump slaughnters him, goes to Nevada, which is a really good state for
Trump either, there's something about the Vegas Trump connection. Yeah. So I'm just looking at DeSantis and it's like, man, it just he feels like he's headed straight down the barrel for exactly what happened to Ted Cruz. And I don't know how he can get out of that and do a better job appealing to these mega voters. The sale is not going to be made for them by a laundry list of conservative policies. That's not why they like Trump. You know, they like Trump because of you know,
how he makes the left crazy. Right, they like Trump because of his alpha demeanor. He not, you know, I think he's a puss, but you know what I mean, they say that at him, right, How does Desanta's get reached those folks. It's hard to see right now. And I think that's why he's a really big underdog.
I mean it's interesting because it's like when he came up, he was like the National Review favorite, and they were so excited and it was so cute. But I was like, you guys, this is totally this guy's a total fascist. Any worse for LGBTQ than Trump. I mean, there's nothing good about Trump. But Trump does not have an ideological, you know, obsession with hurting gay people, where as you really do see with DeSantis. I mean real or not real. The proof is in the state laws.
Oh yeah, I mean it's very real. And this is something that I think a lot of people don't really understand about Trump that you're hitting on, is that in sixteen when I was doing the anti Trump Superpack, the thing that really was surprised and disappointed me that I didn't see coming was that Trump did extremely well with the least conservative Republicans in the primary. Ideologically speaking, like if you pull people on issues, it was him and Kasik.
In my head, I was like, this doesn't make sense. This guy wants to ban Muslims. This guy's insane. But those voters, they saw the apprentice Trump, you know, they saw the guy from New York City who isn't going to be a weird you know, kind of a religious weirdo.
And so Trump ended up kind of having this this strange coalition of like super conservative people, you know, who liked the fact that he was going there on the Muslim ban and things like that, and then super moderate Republicans, working class, moderate, non church going Republicans who liked that he wasn't like a Ted Cruz, like, you know, wasn't going to put in place a six week abortion band
with no exceptions like Granda Stantistad Right. He did well with both of those groups in the Republican primary, and he is right now doing And so that is why, in a weird way, de Santis is super far right. Policies in the legislature I don't think are helping him as much in this primary as he thinks they are. I think that they're actually hurting him with that more moderate group who stayed in the Republican Party who liked Trump and don't and see him as less ideological.
Yeah. I mean, I also think part of the secret with Trump was that there were the people who believed he believed what they believed. I mean, he was Schrodinger's candidate, right, because he didn't really have any belief system, so you could put anything you wanted on him.
Yes, and Desantas doesn't have that at all now, right, Like, you know exactly what he is. You know, he's going to be a far right culture warrior, and look, there's an appetite for that in the Republican Party.
Yeah.
But the problem for Desantasy is if he's splitting that vote with Trump, you know, because some of those people like Trump too.
Write no, all those people like Trump, yeah yeah, yeah, and so then Trump is crushing him with the other group.
How does the math work? I think that's very student exactly right, that Trump was kind of what he needed to be for different people.
Yeah, it's so interesting. I mean, and I wonder again as we're going through this, I mean, there will be more and there's a debate in August, right, that's sort of the beginning of it. One of the things I love about this debate is that Rona Ronda McDaniel Romney, she has done this to herself. She deserves no pity. But she came up with this brilliant idea that she was going to make people sign this pledge. Nobody is going to sign this pledge.
Yeah, I have no idea that and that we're he in Trump's favor.
For everyone who's not completely read in on this, the pledge is that they will support whoever gets the nomination. Asa Hutchinson, Poor Asa Hutchinson, the one sane candidate, was like, can we make it so that we won't support the candidate they're guilty of a felony? And Rona's like, no, yeah.
Poor Ronda, I'm not really I think that that's an ex epic thing happening there.
Talk about report you so, yeah.
The thing that I would love to be a fly on the wall for, you know, because I was part of this in twenty sixteen where I'm so mad at Rance, who is my old boss, and I was working for Jeb and he, you know, came out the stupid pledge idea and took the train up to Trump Tower. And Rans and Trump had a little PR conference and I'm calling him like, what the fuck are you doing?
Rights.
I was like, you're helping this guy, like you're gonna make us sign this pledge. And he's like, no, I'm saving you because when Jeb wins the primary, then Trump won't be able to go third party. I'm like, you think that guy's gonna honor the pledge? The guy I spent his whole life stiffing people, This guy who spent his whole life breaking contracts, Like this is moronic, and
yet Rona is now walking down that same path. And I would love to just be a fly on the wall of the like Chris Losovita Ronna McDaniel conversations about the debate, because the Trump doesn't want these people, right, Like, if Trump's going to participate, she's like camp between Trump and the other folks. So all the other folks want one thing, but Trump wants another thing. But she wants Trump to be on the stage. And so it's like, how do you create rules that bring Trump into the
stage and then bring enough other people. I think that there's a lot of drama left between now and August twentieth or August is somewhere in the August twenties when the debate is to see how this shakes out.
Yeah, I mean it seems completely crazy. And the problem for her is if for some reason he doesn't agree, then there's you have a Republican debate without the front runner.
Yeah, who wants it? It becomes the ratings go down, it becomes like, it's interesting that it comes to you against Trump. Trump obviously ends up doing some kind of counter programming, probably starts insulting the RNC, right, So, I mean, yeah, and they she finds herself in a very precarious situation with regards to this debate.
What are you looking at this week? I mean we're in this sort of sleepy summer zone now, but I mean in August is going to be huge for this Republican primary field. What else are you looking at.
Looking a week ahead? I'm just trying to survive every day. Molly jong Fast, Like, what is happening next week? The fourth of July? I hate Actually one thing I'm doing next week it's a little different. Republicans. You might want to use this with a podcast or not. Is I'm going to go try to see Presley who's running against team Oh yeah, we were in Mississippi.
Oh fantastic, Yes, talk about that for two seconds, because that's a Carvel's been talking to us about that.
Yeah, Brandon Presley, it's an interesting race. So we've got it's the off year. So there's an election this November. And Mississippi Governor Brandon Presley, who is the Democrat, who's you know, the kind of Democrat that could win a Mississippi.
He was a land commissioner, right, yep.
And he's a little bit more he's a little bit more moderate. And I live New Orleans now and so he's ha an event about an hour away in South Mississippi, and so I kind of want to go check him out. Tate Reeves, who is like literally, if you were doing a parody of a Southern Republican governor and you had Tate Reeves, like, you know, Republicans would be like this is offensive, like this micro Republicans aren't the stereotypical.
And there's a lot of corruption stuff because of this scandal, the Medicare Tate Reeves sports stadium scandal.
It's with Brett Farv. Yeah, so Tate Reeves and Brett Farv had this kind of insider deal to how literally too, because Brett Farr wanted to get his daughter a volleyball courts or something. It's like the stupidest thing ever. Brenton Presley is a cousin of Elvis related that is right, that's just an accident. So he's the cousin of Elvis. I'll probably write something for the book, so we'll check it out. But I want to get a sense for whether this is do this. There is the history of this,
so losing it out. Where I live now has a kind of governor I'm less John Edwards, Sir John Bell Edwards. And you know in the South, in these governors races, you get these one party states where there's too much corruption. Candidates go a little bit too. You know, you can even go too far from Mississippi, that is possible.
So I think that like Kansas.
Yeah, like Kansas. So I wouldn't predict a brand impressive victory at this point, but he is. He's running a much stronger campaign than people expected. I'm excited to go say him next week.
Oh fantastic. Thank you so much, Tim Miller. I hope you'll come back.
Thanks by.
David Leonhardt is a senior writer at the New York Times. Welcome to Fast Politics, David.
It's great to be on the show.
It's great to have you. So you write this newsletter, that is the newsletter, it's the New York Times newsletter, and you do have help with him, and you took a book leaves, but you write it many, many, many times a week.
I write the lead item. I don't know, maybe four times a week. Sometimes this week I wrote it. I think every day. We've got a great team of people who including people in life who wake up before people in the US wake up, and they put the finishing touches on it. And the idea is, it's sort of want it. We want to give people an overview of everything that's in the New York Times, but we also
want to focus on one story. So usually at the top I try to help people sort through the news on one major story, and then and then lower down we give them all the headlines and culture coverage and sports and all that, and so it's it's meant to be like a digital replacement for the old print newspaper.
I'm curious you're read in on so much stuff. I have always this anxiety that I'm missing something you know, I do this podcast three times a week. I get to interview a lot of people. But I always feel like there's some really important essay I have missed reading. You know, that there's some piece of news that I have wrong. I mean, for example, I have a friend who writes on the Justice Department beat, and she's always telling me, like, you know, a certain story might not
be quite right or this or that. I mean, do you have that anxiety? You must have that anxiety.
I do have that anxiety.
I mean, I think.
But what I have I have.
This great advantage, which is I can call anyone at the New York Times it is not bad, and I can ask for their help, and I can quote them, and I can also ask them to edit me. And so what I will typically do when I write a piece, say, you know, any piece I write about the Supreme Court, I'll send to Adam Looktech And usually what he does is he'll say, well, that's not quite right. Change that, change that. But it doesn't mean that I don't still
sometimes get things slightly off. It's just really it's kind of a wonderful resource to be able to not only talk to my colleagues up front and make sure that I'm kind of getting really interesting information, but then also have them help me on the back end, because you know, I think your point is right on, which is a lot of times you can say something that is not a correctable error but is slightly off, and then look, other times you're going to say something that a source
is going to say, well, that's not quite right, And what the source really means is I disagree with that a little bit, and they can disagree with that, but it doesn't mean that what you wrote was necessarily wrong, right.
And I do think though with so much of the stuff, like I mean, one of the fundamental anxieties of the Trump error is that if a mistake is made, like a good faith error, there's a lot of this stuff is very complicated, especially when it comes to like stuff like the documents, right, Like let's even talk about like you know, there the Washington Post had this is a while ago, had had said that Trump had nuclear documents, but the Times did not say that because they couldn't
run it down and they didn't want to take the chance. And then eventually it did turn out, but they were being super careful. Do you see that kind of thing? I mean, do you have that kind of anxiety, because I do feel like one of the things that Trump did and that trump iss did was that, you know, an error, they would sort of blow it up into some kind of conscious fake news, as opposed to like, people are fallible.
Yeah, people are fallible, and I think, I mean Trump would do that. Trump also lied constantly about almost eighty I once put together a list and I couldn't keep it updated. I mean I had hundreds of items. I mean, he just lied constantly. He doesn't seem to care whether what he's saying is the truth. If saying the truth benefits him, he'll say the truth, and if lying benefits him, he'll lie. And so I do think the Trump era made a lot of you know, made it harder sometimes
to think about the idea of truth. I would encourage people on the other side of the political spectrum, progressives also to be careful with this, because I think we've gotten to the point where a lot of progressives will call a wide array of things that they disagree with misinformation. And I think you really want to use words like I just use lies to describe Donald Trump, because I do think but there are many things that I disagree
with that. I don't think are misinformation, and I worry that while the Republican Party certainly lies more often than the Democratic Party in recent years, that doesn't mean that people on the left half of the political spectrum are infallible. And so, for example, to take an example from COVID, I think it's misinformation to say that vaccines don't work. I say, say, is a fair argument about whether mask mandates work or don't work. I have my own view
of it, but I don't think either. I don't think it is misinformation to say mask mandates work, and I don't think it's misinformation to say mask mandates don't work. And I don't think we should take either philosophical debates or matters of opinion or cases where the ebbit and say that our opponents are engaging in misinformation. I think that's really dangerous.
I agree. On the Internet, I don't know if you know about this thing the internet, people are still fighting about mask mandates and vaccine mandates. I was in the COVID vaccine trials. I am not an anti vaxxer by any stretch the imagination, but like you know, I'll probably have another shot in the fall when I get my flu shot. But you know, I'm perfectly healthy. I've had COVID twice. I've been totally fine. I mean, I'm not on some like a desperate quest to get vaccinated every
four days. And yet there still is a section of the population that is like, I mean, are we just so traumatized from the experience of living through a pandemic that people just have to fight with each other about this or is there like some underlying thing.
Well, I think there's a little bit of un our link thing. But I think you just hit the nail on the head. We are still traumatized by the pandemic, and that's to be expected. It has changed daily life in the way that nothing has, certainly since World War Two. And an example I use a lot is I'm a New Yorker. I was in New York on nine to eleven. It was worse than anything that I'd ever seen or going through. So in no way am I minimizing it.
I'm just stating a fact, which is, for anyone who was not directly infected by it, if you did not have a relative who was killed, your life was back to something that looked like normal within I don't know. Two weeks, even in New York, three weeks you were going back to the office. Daily rituals were the same. COVID permanently, in all likelihood change our lives.
We don't go to the office anymore. People don't go to the office anymore.
Right, And not only that, but it killed vast numbers of people, and it had terrible side effects. I mean, we have never had as damaging an event to American education as COVID.
And also life expectancies went down, and life expectance, So when you think about what COVID itself did in terms of the direct toll of the pandemic, and then whether you think that these were good policies or not, when you think about the horrible toll of our pandemic precautions like closing schools, we haven't been through anything this terrible or disruptive in our lives.
And when you combine that with the terrible degree of political polarization that we have in society, I think that explains why. I mean, look, most people are just over COVID. They're like done with it, They're not going to write about it. But I think that explains why you still see some of this intensity around.
Yeah, I mean that makes a lot of sense. And it's funny because it's like, so after nine to eleven. I grew up in New York, and I was in New York at nine to eleven. I was twenty one, and right after I flew to do Oprah with my mom and we flew to Chicago over the smoldering It was October over the smoldering wreckage of the World Trade Center. I mean, it just forever affected me, but it is true we did go back to normal life quite soon after that.
Yeah, COVID really will shape I assume it'll shape our lives. I mean, I guess at this one I should say I hope nothing else shapes our lives as much as COVID.
Yeah, you know, I remember around that time, I had Paul Krugman on the podcast, and I asked him if he thought that COVID would shape our economy because we lost a million people and then we have these untold numbers of people of long COVID. So, I mean, I guess it's too soon to really know what those numbers are, but you could see that happening.
Yeah, I think that explains why we still see some fights over it. But you know, look, we see fights over nearly every major subject in American life, so why should COVID be any different.
It's true, it feels very real to me right now because since Fauci retired, this sort of anti vax crew, which has a lot of and I don't even know why they're anti vacs at this point, right, I mean, do it two years ago. But there are a lot of tech billionaires who are very involved in this whatever, and they're all sort of targeting Peter Hotez, who you know, is just a deer man. So it's gotten me very it feels very fresh right now. So I want to talk to you about where we are right now with
this Republican primary. I mean, I always feel like, because I'm on the opinion side, I'm really lucky because I never have to you know, I can just have an opinion. But like, to cover politics right now in such a fraud time in a straight way has to be really tricky.
Yes, I mean, I'm not out on the campaign trail. I may sometimes go out on it toward the end. Look, I think it's clearly changed. I mean, even setting aside Trump, you know, Ron DeSantis basically doesn't give interviews to anyone from whom he thinks he might get skeptical questions. You know, that's very different from the past, both Republican and Democratic administrations. I mean, I you know, I wrote something that the
Bush administration didn't like. They asked me to come in and we had this you know, great this is years ago, and we had this kind of great debate about it, and they said some things that changed my view, and I told them that I still had continued up the basic view I have. And you know, I interviewed John McCain and Met Romney on the campaign trail in two thousand and eight, and so no, I mean, the polarization of society really has affected the way we cover presidential
campaigns in and I think damaging ways. It's not the biggest problem in media. The biggest problem in media is the decline of local media. I think overall, our national media is relatively healthy, even if it's somewhat polarized, and even if the problem of the spread of actual misinformation is a problem.
And it's not the same as sort of things that are not necessarily that feel incorrect.
Yeah, I mean, I think where are we in the campaign at this point, like I really thought DeSantis, when Dessanta seemed to be closing the gap with the Trump I took that seriously. I think that could happen again. There's a long way to go. If you go back to the Obama Clinton primary, there were multiple times in the odd numbered year, which then was two thousand and seven and now is twenty twenty three week when it
just looked like Obama was just done. I mean, you can go back and read people writing his political obituary. Why isn't he cutting into Clinton the lead and basically every major publication, including the New York Times, And the answer was, well, it's a long campaign and he wasn't destined to win, but he did. And I think similarly this time Trump really does have some weaknesses the legal cases.
But at this point, I think you just have to say that Trump is the overwhelming favorite to get the Republican nomination, and although if he does, his odds of winning are serious, but you also would clearly go into it as the underdog against bind.
But why do you think, DeSantis, Because you're the first person to say this to me. I mean, I certainly think it's a crowded field, but I'm just curious why you think that there might be more to DeSantis. I mean, he definitely is the favorite for people who are smart Trumpers, but I'm just curious. I mean, I think he entered in stronger than other Republicans, but I feel like the more we get to know him, the less he sort of has the appeal. But he does have. He is the Trumpiest.
I think that he's still the strongest other than Trump, and the polls, he's still the strongest in terms of elite support, probably even stronger than in terms of sun raising. And so if you go back and you say, and I understand, history is not you know, is not guaranteed to repeat itself. There is never a candidate like Trump a good precedent, but it's a good precedent at this
stage in the campaign. Is there anyone who looks like say Tim Scott or Nikky Haley or Mike Pence in terms of polling and money and endorsements And by all that I mean polling weakness, lack of money, lack of endorsement. Right, yes, ever gotten the nomination like maybe Jimmy Carter in seventy six. That's the thing. There wasn't either a Trump or a DeSantis in that race, and Dessantas still does look like some people who've kind of come back to get the nomination,
like Obama, and just in terms of the polling and stuff. Again, I'm not predicting that. I think I do not think it most likely scenario.
You think the most likely scenario is still Trump.
I think the most likely scenario is still Trump. And quite frankly, if you told me that the nominee was neither Trump nor DeSantis, I gotta say I might pick someone. And you told me that I either had to pick one of the other people who's announced or pick the field. I take the field to me. It's something weird where like the indictments and the trials cause a whole big mess, and you know, someone like Glenn Youngkin gets in the
race really late. I don't see Pence or Scott or Haley or help me Molly, who are all ruscer names. I don't see any of the promination yeah, or Rick Scott.
Even it's funny because it's like if you were worried, and my anxiety is largely like because I have children, is like authoritarianism comes to the United States, right, So if that's your anxiety. Then the worst candidate is trump Ism without Trump, which would be obviously DeSantis. But it seems to me like just as we watch this process,
then it's actually lesser. Trump Ism is not how it's gonna you know, it'll either be Trump or it'll be the party having some kind of seizure and deciding finally that that's not what they want.
Yeah. You know, my colleague is Staid Herndon. He made this point that changed the way I think about it Donald Trump, and I hesitate to say this, but there's a fun aspect to him as a political candidate for people who don't focus so much on matters of substance, like if you don't care that much about politics, and many Americans do not like you know, he's a showman, like it's outrageous, you're never sure what's going to happen. And I do think for some number of voters they
kind of like that. And I mean, Ron DeSantis is many things. I don't think. Fun is a work that almost anyone would use to describe him, including many of his fans. And I do think it's a little bit hard to completely unpack what makes Trump so appealing to Republicans and then put it back together in some incomplete way.
We find ourselves in a situation of these. You know, is charismatic presidential candidate? I mean, as a Democrat, I have seen that my party run more than a few candidates where you know, every said, well, charisma. People don't really vote on charisma like obviously they do. Yeah, And if John Decaucus, if you're listening to this, I'm sorry, and I treasure you as a friend. But your dad he couldn't be president because he just didn't have it. Sorry,
I can't be mean to Mike Decaucus. There's a new rule on this podcast.
Those things matter. I mean, it makes me wonder. Boy, the stakes are so high, shouldn't the parties probably be investing a little bit more in the personal side of candidate development. I mean, there's just a fascinating poll done by the Center for Working Class Politics in which they gave swingers a bunch of candidate profiles. And it's not exactly shocking, but people would rather have their candidates be teachers and nurses and warehouse workers and doctors, so it's
not all, you know, blue collar stuff. They would rather not have them be lawyers or big company executives, and they're all kinds of things that people vote on, and it sort of feels like the political system hasn't yet optimized some of the ways in whichiving elections.
It's not all about polpsy.
David, thank you so much for joining us. It's so interesting. I hope you will come back.
I definitely will.
Thanks for having me.
Mollie.
Hi, it's Mollie and I am wildly excited that for the first time, Fast Politics, the show you're listening to right now, is going to have merch for sale over at shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com. You can now buy shirts, hats, hoodies, and toe bags with our incredible designs. We've heard your cries to spread the word about our podcast and get a tow bag with my adorable Leo the Rescue Puppy on it. And now you can grab this merchandise only at shop dot fast It takes pod dot com. Thanks
for your support. Rachel Hunt is a member of the North Carolina State Senate and a candidate for Lieutenant governor. There. Welcome to Fast Politics, Rachel Hunt.
Thank you.
I'm happy to be here.
We're delighted to have you. So you are a state Senator in North Carolina and you are running for lieutenant governor. Talk to me about what that means and why you're doing that.
Sure well, I was raised in North Carolina. I love the state, and I refuse to sit back and watch as extremists try to move the state I love backwards. I've spent my whole life serving here, both in and out of elected office. Before that, I ran a domestic violent shelter, I practiced family law, I served on the board of my son's public charter school. And I've had the honor of representing my community in the State House and now the State Senate.
As a mother.
I'm running to build a North Carolina that families want to raise their children in, one where an honest day of hard work pays off and there are good paying jobs that will keep our young people heal. We need a North Carolina where everyone can make their own decisions and kids can get a world class public education. I'm running to ensure that working North Carolinians from every part of the state have a seat at the table. So if you're with me, please join me at Rachel Hunt dot com.
So right now you do have a democratic governor. That's correct, but you also have a very powerful Republican state government and that has led to a lot of stuff. Can you talk a little bit about the landscape of North Carolina.
Yes, So we are unfortunately in the super minority in both the House and the Senate, which obviously makes the governor's vetos able to be over at which they have been and they will continue to be, which is making us into a completely republican state. And the issues that the Republicans are pushing, especially with regards to women's rights and the rights of children, are completely unacceptable and we have to fight against them.
Those are like a statewide abortion ban, right, yes, absolutely, and what else?
So other things are partisan jerry mandarin that's a huge thing in our state. And we just lost our Supreme Court as well to the Republicans, so now they have ruled that jerrymandering is allowed in North Carolina. So we are going back in September to redraw all the districts, and we will lose all of the Democratic congressional seats that we had except for possibly two.
So even though our state is basically fifty to.
Fifty, we will end up with ten or eleven congressional Republicans. And it's the same for the State House and sidate strips. Wait why because they know, they meaning the Republicans know the only way they can continue to win is by cheating, and cheating is through gerrymandering. And they know that people are not behind the way they value things, especially this abortion ban, and that if people had one vote for each person that in a non gerrymandered situation, they would all lose their seats.
So what happens now, I mean, is there anything to do with this gerrymandering or is it really unfitsable?
Well, the gerrymandering situation is very difficult because you know, the Supreme Court is not up for re election this year. That's several more years until we can get those people out of office. What were you're going to have to do is fight like we've never fought before and make sure people overwhelmingly come out to vote.
Because if we can.
Get every single unaffiliated and Democrat to vote, we can be them. And that is what we have to do. We have to make sure people understand their lives are at stake and their livelihoods with things like the income tax being got rid of, the corporate income tax in North Carolina, people will pay for that. Women will die because of the abortion band and the things about trans children in sports and otherwise will also result in suicide rates of those children going by.
And so tell me, how are you running in your state and what does that look like?
So I, you know, started in twenty eighteen when I won a House district. I won one that was an R plus nine district Trump won by nine percentage points in twenty sixteen, and so I have been able to fight and.
Win in districts like that.
And the way I do it is going door to door, making sure I talk to every single person. And I got Republican votes that year too, and making sure we get our message out to this year, women especially in suburban areas are very very angry, and they are not going to take what is being done to them in North Carolina sitting down, and they will come out and vote.
So we just have to make sure they know who to vote for, what the issues are besides abortion, and that they have to vote because we also have some issues that we just passed to make voting more difficult.
Right, you talk to us about that.
Yes, if you try to do a mail in ballot, which became extremely popular during the pandemic. They have cut off the number of days that they will allow it to be received. They are going to now have more stringent things with you know, signatures that have to match two factor authentication, which is not use anywhere else in
the country. You know, they're also making it more difficult if you want to register and vote on the same day, which we know that is disproportionately affects minority people and students because they know the only way they can win is by cheating, and this is just another way to do that.
Yeah, talk to me about what that looks like with the voting, what will happen on the ground.
So we have got to have people out right now. First of all, getting people their IDs that this is the first year that goes into effect having to have an ID. We have not given extra money to the Bory of Elections. We hope in the final budget they will get some extra money. But other people are going to have to pick up the slack, including campaigns to make sure people understand the rules. And we also just have to make sure people come out and vote in person.
You know, we have early voting here, so that's what they need to do.
So early voting is still okay, but mail in voting they've made it harder again.
That's right, that's right. And if your mail in vote doesn't count and is turned into a provisional ballot, it will be much harder to cure that, especially if you're not able to drive or in some other situation like that.
Right, while we're here, just a little bit more about what it would mean to have a democratic lieutenant governor in North Carolina.
Having a Democratic governor and a female Democratic governor North Carolina would be great.
We've only had.
One other female Democratic lieutenant governor in history, and we know the value of having women at the decision making table. As lieutenant governor, i will preside over the state Senate and I'll be in the room with the governor helping to make critical decisions. We have to have a strong democratic governor, lieutenant governor, and attorney general at the helm to fight for our rights and make sure that North Carolina's women and workers are at the forefront of our priorities.
Why do you think North Carolina has been so beguiling for Democrats? I mean, I think a lot of people would have said that it seemed more likely you'd see a slipped North Carolina. Before you'd see a flipped Georgia. But here we are. I mean, why do you think it's been so beguiling for us?
I think the jerrymandering issue is one of the reasons. You know, we started that in North Carolina. We were the first state to really be very good at jerrymandering and to do it to an extreme degree. And so that's set up, you know, starting in twenty ten when the Republicans took over the state legislature. That has set up this entire time that they have been in control
of the legislature over ten years now. And because they were able to control the district lines, you know, and make people's voats count less than they should fully in a democracy, they have been able to hold onto power. But you know, we are starting to chip away. We won a state House seat in an exurban county, which is exactly what we are going to work on.
Now.
We know that in the counties that are right outside of the cities in North Carolina, people are ready to make changes. They may have moved here. We have one hundred people a day that move into Charlotte. They don't under stand that Republicans in North Carolina are not the same as Republicans in New York or Massachusetts, and once they find out, they are willing and ready to vote the right way for the Democrats.
Here we are in this off year. What do you think the people in North Carolina are looking for for candidates, what do they want to see from Biden in this presidential What do you think the ethos is in your state? And how do you think Democrats could win in the twenty four Well.
I think we win by meeting people where they are talking about issues that they care about. My dad was governor in the state for sixteen years. He had people from every background that supported him. He was able to get an incredible amount of things done by Republicans and
Democrats working together. And that's because, you know, we talked about things that are that are important to us, things like quality and affordable health care, fully funding our public schools, supporting family farmers, bringing jobs to the state, keeping communities safe. None of these are partisan. They appeal to everyone, and those are the issues that should be a top priority for all of us. That is what my campaign is doing.
We are building a grassroots movement in every single up the one hundred counties and it'll be a platform for the issues that North Carolinians care about. They do not care about these social issues that the Republicans are trying to push. Those are just red flags. They are meaningless.
They are not what people care about. And we have to keep the attention on the issues people care about and make sure that they understand we are the party, we are the people, We are the candidates who are going to help them.
Do you still think that Trump has a real kind of base in North Carolina?
I would say he still has about thirty percent of the people that are Republican that support him.
Yes, from what you're sort of seeing on the ground in North Carolina, do they seem angrier or do they seem like they've sort of are of living with the defeat of trump Ism? Or do you think they think their guy's going to win next time?
Oh?
No, they think their guy's going to win. They are fully in that world. They have all pledged allegiance to him. They think that they're going to be able to do exactly what they did last time when he won, and they think he's going to win.
There's no moment of reflection or anything.
Absolutely not.
If they had a moment of reflection, they would not be able to pass these laws at their passing.
When voters talk to you, I mean, what are the things they're the most concerned was.
They are concerned with their children being safe at school, They are concerned with their children's education. They are concerned with healthcare. Women, as I've said before, women on the doorsteps.
When I was knocking doors last year for my state senate race women over seventy would actually break down in tears to talk and talk to me about when they fought for the right to have abortion in the state and in this country, and how happy they were when Roby Waite was passed, and how devastated they are with the Dobbs decision.
Yeah, I continue to think Dobbs is a much bigger deal than even now it's being painted as I do too.
And you know, our ban goes into effect July first, and once that happens, people are really going to see this is not just about abortion. This is about health care. If you are pregnant and you have a very bad situation, you need to get kidder and the doctors are going to leave.
They're going to leave the state.
Well, and also the doctors don't want to lose their licenses, right exactly, and I don't blame them. Yeah, I'm so delighted to have you. So when is your tell us when your election is?
So the primary is March eight. I do have one premier opponent. I hope that he drops out, but we'll see. We can do it either way. And then of course the election is in November.
Great. Thank you so much for joining us.
We're so welcome.
It was my pleasure. And anyone who us to go to about website Rachel Hunt dot com please do.
Jesse Cannon, Maley.
Jung, Fast the Money Honey, Maria Barceromo, and Senator Marshall Blackburn there sounded like Alex Jones to me.
It's all The idea here is that Biden orchestrated a coup was on Putin to distract from Hunter Biden's laptop. That's really what it is. And I just want to say that if Biden could organize a coup to remove Vladimir Putin, I don't think he's gonna the dumbest people saying the dumbest things. Congratulations, Fox News, you've done it again. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds
in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.