Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, where we discussed the top political headlines with some of today's best minds, and Texas has passed a new aggressive voting bill that was suppressed Democratic votes. We have such an interesting show today. The intercepts Ken Klippenstein talk to us about the tensions with Iran that are keeping him up at night. Then we'll talk to move On's Rana Epting about the organization's plan to take back the.
House for Democrats.
But first we have legendary Republican operative, the Lincoln Project.
Stuart Stevens.
Welcome back to Fast Politics. Stuart Stevens, thanks for asking me to the party. Molly, thank you for being so great. I feel like this was the week the DeSantis dream and dreams in quotes, but it kind of died.
People never have a sense of how difficult it is to run.
For president, That's true.
It's not even you know, it's something to say it's like going from high school or from college to the NFL, but it's really more like going from junior high to the NFL. They make a big deal out of Desantus winning by nineteen points. Well, you know, I worked for Charlie Chris to guy he beat and all of the races that he did when he ran as a Republican, which he won all those races a journey general governor.
But as far as I know, I think it's an accurate statement that no party switcher has ever defeated an incumbent of the party. He switched to Bill Weld in Massachusetts when he was reelected. He was re elected in Massachusetts by thirty three points, So I mean Rick Perry was re elected by double digits.
How do he do?
I think it's a false sign of confidence or something. In my view, what's happening here is this is a campaign that's really being run by the Santus and his wife. He just has that feel of a vanity can pain. They're going to raise a bunch of money that's going to go to a lot of structure, but none of that matters as much as you think it does, and particularly in a presidential race where you're going to get attention otherwise, and I think it just becomes you're buying speakers to turn.
Up the volume of noise.
I mean, that'll make it music, and it just never works that way. I don't know if you've watched the guy out there.
Molly, he just he's terrible.
It seems miserable.
You go to find some guy in an orange jumpsuit staring in the camera. To find anybody else as miserable, you know. I mean, these are like hostage videos.
But what I'm struck by is like so many of the National Review crowd. I mean, I got to see this firsthand when I wrote this piece about how DeSantis is more dangerous than Trump, because I do think he I actually believe he is. But all these National Review people came after me and they were like, how dare you you know? And I realized like he was their great white hope, and I thought, like, these people, they
really believe that he's going to be their president. And I was like, how do you think a person with no charisma wins the contest which is just largely about charisma.
I find it fascinating the whole National Review thing, because first that they think that, but secondly that they have invented this idea of who the Santus is. I mean, it's a National Review really supporting a guy that uses the power of the state to try to crush a free enterprise.
Corporation that doesn't.
Agree with like Disney.
Yeah, that's really what they agree in.
Do they really want to get into the book banning business.
I think we know the answer to this.
And I don't think they do.
I think that they just are so desperate to believe in something that you know, they're out there and there's a drought the volcano belchis so they start worshiping. It rains and they start worshiping volcanoes. So it's got to be a connection.
Here, you know.
I think it's just sort of sad they're not all like that. Jay Nordleyser, who's a Navy of yourways, actually lives on the side and he still kept the faith there and I love the stuff that he writes for the NRO. It's just illusionary and it all goes back to this idea that you could do something like support Donald Trump and then it would be like it never happened. Right, Okay, we're going to get the benefits of that. We're going
to get these Supreme Court justices. We're gonna get this, We're gonna get But then it's we're just going to forget the fact that seventy percent of Repoling Party doesn't think that Joe Biden is a legally elected president.
Yeah, well, you can't unring that bell.
These things are linear.
It's all in a process of how democracy side into autocracy. These step by step by step. It's not going to be like Chili any end day. They're not going to at the palace, but it'll be like Victor Orbin and Hungary.
Who is their model.
Yeah, No, they love Orbon, which is really scary, I mean, just completely terrifying.
You know, I think the problem we have is it's difficult to imagine the unimaginable, and it is so hard for those of us who have always known America in a certain way imagining America becoming something that is dramatically different than it is. But there's no reason that can happen. It is happening. I think the steps are in place. The other thing that really strikes me about the sentence. You know, there's this model of big state governors, Republicans
who get elected President Reagan, Bush, Romney tried. We lost, if you haven't heard, but they were positive people. They were optimistic, they had an expansive view of the world. They were likable. You were drawn to him and you look at the Santus. He's just angry at the world and there's no policy. We used to say that, I mean, it was sort of bullshit, but we used to say it that. You know that governors were the laboratories of ideas.
Right.
So I want to ask you a question that I've been thinking about a lot, and this is goesee idea that there's no policy. There sort of is a policy, right, it's just wildly unpopular, right, Cutting social security and medicare, making more guns more available, that's popular with the base, but not popular with the middle. Taking away abortion, you know, not teaching sex at in schools. I wonder if you know some of what's happening is they know that a lot of their ideas are losers.
There is an agenda, there's not a positive policy agenda. I think that it goes to the truth that you spoke that the scientist is more dangerous than trun At a certain point in politics, you know, Haley Barber used to say this, you got to be for something that people are for, right, And it's kind of obvious, but this stuff isn't popular except with a decreasing minority of the people. I don't understand why they aren't able to come up with some construct of an economic plan that
people would find appealing. But the party it exists now Republicans and be Democrats. And that's really not what a typical political party does. That's sort of like a cartel. No one says, like, what does Opek really believe in? Like they still all, what is a narco cartel? What is their real theory of government?
You know?
It's like, well they still dope, man. So it's really almost silly to ask these people this. I don't think that we've ever seen anything like this, of a kind of complete collapse of a party of any reason to exist other than to not be the other side. The last couple of days, there's been turn on Fox. You see people like Laura Ingram lecturing young people why they should be voting publican.
Right, why they should vote Republican. It's just baffling, like does she.
Not I you know, it's like, you know, we're still going out. You just don't know it.
Trump is going to be the nominee. That seems pretty clear. There's nobody who's going to come in there and dislodge him. I mean, unless there's some world in which and I mean, we've seen that that one indictment just made him more popular. I mean, maybe Jack Smith comes in there, but it just seems like he's on a collision course with the nomination at this point.
I would agree with that.
Look, you could look at a guy like the Tantas and you say, Okay, does he have the ability to change?
No, clearly not.
If he did, then what is happening now? I don't think is fatal, but I don't think he has either the ability or the desire to. And when you define yourself like, don't back never back down.
Right, But it's a fundamental thing. You cannot elect. I mean, look, and I got in trouble for saying this, and you know, I'm a big fan of Ducaucus. But like and Carrie and even your beloved Mitt Romney, Like, those guys were not charismatic guys, I'm sorry to tell you.
I mean, they just weren't the cut.
They were smart, and they weren't decent.
But American people aren't necessarily that's not what they're looking for in a presidential candidate.
Yeah.
No, Look, I mean there's a reason People magazine sells more copy than Foreign Affairs, right, you know, we are still a personality driven culture. It's not a bad test in a campaign when you look at it and you go, who is enjoying the campaign the moment, and it's sort of like sports and political parties take on personality, and he's the way sports seems to and the personality of the Republican Party is very angry, aggrieved, embittered. They're giving a party. You just kind of don't want to go
to that party. I mean, I can remember got so painfully in two thousand and New Hampshire. I was working in the Bushy campaign, right, So we had a sixty five point lead at one point in New Hampshire and we managed to lose by nineteen So I mean, really you really have to work at that, particularly when you're out spending the other guy like three to one.
I mean, that's not something easy to do it really to do that.
But we off to New Hampshire and there was John Became.
This is when he was doing the.
Straight Talk Express and he was having the time of his life. And then you would go to our rallies and it was like, oh god, it's like so much more fun over there.
I can't we just stand there? No, No, we got killed a new hair.
So let's talk about the great White hope of the Republican Party.
Chris Christie.
I feel like he's Schrodenjers Christie because he both works for the administration or the Trump administration as it and is against the Trump administration.
You know what is happening.
Look, this is deeply personal to me. I worked in all of Chris's races.
I love the guy.
When he beats an incumbent Democrat. The way that he did it was really incredible, and that was a very joyful campaign. You know, Christy had a great time out there campaign and it breaks my heart to see what happened to him. It's a perfect example. Had he just stayed true, this would be his moment. He could come in and say, I told you so. It's difficult for me to go out here and say negative things about Chris Christy because I liked him so much.
I think you've explained it exactly right, right.
I mean, it's the phenomenon that Rick Wilson talks about that everything Trump touches dies as sooner or later, you debase yourself for him and he ruins you.
Same with Nikki Haley.
Nicky Haley had stood the person, stayed the person she was when she stood next to Marco Rubio in the South Carolina primary and told the truth about Donald Trump that he acts like someone I would tell my kindergarteners never to be like like. Had she stayed that person, this could be her moment. The same with even take a guy like Glenn Youngkin. So had Glenn Youngkin not run on CRT, had he not run on playing the race card? Had he not once he got elected, gone out and endorged Kerry Lake?
Yeah that was a miss.
Well, then you could say, here's a guy, seems like a likable guy, and maybe, but you can't do that and then pretend.
That it didn't happen.
Yeah, exactly.
Look at someone we never talked about him for reasons that I'm obvious. But the former governor of Arkansas, Asa Hutchinson. He was a client of mine and as of the candidate's running now, most people aren't aware of the fact that As is running, but he is running.
But he's he's kept his powder dry the most of any of those guys.
He is, he has kept the most true And to do that as an Arkansas governor, right, it's not the easiest thing.
That's a seat now occupied by Sarah Sanders.
Sarah Sanders, right, who is the main bona fides is that she worked in the Trump administration and is the daughter of the governor.
There's a lot of people in the Trump world who lied, like basically all of them.
Sarah Hutchinson is one of the few.
Who admitted she lied to the FBI and they got elected governor. You know, so, so, so where are there successful Republicans?
Right?
So? I just I saw a poll yesterday that Phil Scott, the Republican governor Vermont, where I live now, is the most popular governor America.
I mean, I work for Phil Scott. I know the guy. There's nothing magical about what he does. He's a guy.
He gets up in the morning, he goes to work and tries to be a good governor. And he's not mad at the world. He's not trying to get on Fox News. He doesn't have some insane ambition about taking over the world. He actually likes being a public service and that's really all.
I take.
Charlie Baker in Massachusetts, I work for him. Charlie was wildly popular. Larry Hogan, I work for Larry Hogan. Help elect all these guys. But here's a really telling thing about them, Molly, that people don't and you got to kind of be it's a little insider. But as popular as they are, they cannot pick their own state party chairman, which a governor not being able to pick their own
state party chairman is so un imaginable in politics. It's like Bill Bilichchek, you know, I have to call somebody before he can like put in a quarterback. That just shows how distant they have come from where the party is. But if the party had any sense, if we really believe this whull shit that we, you know, should run things like a business, you look.
At these guys, you go, wait a second. If we could win.
These states, Massachusetts from aunt Maryland and the general election, we own the world. So what can you guys teach us? You be our models, because what you're doing is work.
Don't be fascist.
But it's not even that people love Biden so much. It's just that they are terrified of what's on the other side as well.
They should be.
I mean, I actually think Biden's doing a very good job, and I think they are, you know, I mean, every administration has its void bobbles and problems. But it doesn't matter. They're running against complete lunatics. I mean, you know, the other side is, you know, inspecting children's genitals. I mean this is not a hard decision. I mean, you know, even the quarter quotes smart Guy is in a death spiral with Disney.
Yeah.
To be a Republican now is exhausting. Yeah, because it requires you to be constantly angry, which is a horrible feeling in life. And it requires you to feel like a victim, which is a horrible feeling. And the whole benefit, the great beauty of living in a civil society is not having to think about government, not have to wake up in the morning and wonder, like, is the person who's running our country? What mood is that person in?
And Biden frees you from that. Biden is a celebration of the virtues of boredom.
It's true.
And that's what Tony Ivers said in Wisconsin too. He said, I got first Democrat to get reelected in Wisconsin in a million years.
I won by being boreding Stuart Stevens. I hope you will please come back.
Of course, I'm like the crazy uncle at Thanksgiving dinner should be careful, inte.
You have no idea.
My uncles are much crazier than you could ever. I'm telling you, I am men, but you are the greatest and I really appreciate you.
Thank you all the best.
Ken Clippenstein is an investigative reporter for The Intercept. Welcome to Fast Politics, Ken clipp.
And Stein going to be with you, guys.
We're delighted to have you. What is the thing that is keeping you up at night right now?
Just one?
Yeah, you can do too, But I want to know, like, because I feel like, you know a lot of shit that should we should be worried about.
So tell me what is really freaking you out.
I would say that tensions with Iran are really escalating in ways that have gone sort of unnoticed because of understandably the terrible war in Ukraine that everyone is focusing on.
But we have a you know, Israeli government that is very right wing, unprecedentedly right wing, and the US ambassador to Israel has publicly encouraged them to do what they think that they need to do with regard to the Iranian nuclear question, which you know could spell this app depending on how that's interpreted by Netanyahu.
Wait, just say more.
In the collapse of the Iran Deal, the diplomatic agreement wherein Iran agreed not to enrich nuclear technology for a weapon in exchange for being able to, you know, have sanctions relaxed on them so they can trade with the Europeans, with the West. Since Trump abrogated that deal and the Biden administration was unable to reinstate it, we're in a situation where the Uranians are enriching nuclear technology, not to
the point of its being a weapon. The CI Director and our intelligence community in the Nuclear Posture Review made clear that they have not yet made that decision to go ahead with the weapon, but they are enriching so that if they do make that decision, then they can obtain a weapon much more quickly than if they hadn't enriched. What that does is it makes it so that the Israelis can say, you know, we have to do something about the enrichment, even though again they haven't yet decided
if they're going to pursue a nuclear weapon. They have aircraft that could do a airstrike on these facilities. That I mean, they have all sorts of options. Israelize a powerful military and it's kind of a question mark as to you know, how far net Yahoo and not just him, but the far right elements within his ruling party would be willing to go and to what extent our country and in Washington would be willing to try to pressure them to not do it, or to stop that, or
to reverse course. But really, I think a lot of this flows from the failure to reinstate that those diplomatic accords first put in place by President Obama. And now we're going to see how what the response to what Iran is doing is going to be, and that can be very scary depending on how that plays out.
All Right, I'm pretty scared about that. Okay, that's because it keeps me up at night. You've written about the war and Yemen. I was hoping you could talk about that because it's related.
Right, According to the UN, the biggest humanitarian crisis in the world. There's a Saudi led air coalition to try to oust what are called the Hoothy rebels, who themselves pushed out a government that was friendly to ri Odd friendly to the Saudis. And over the course of this war, which began under the person who's now de facto ruler of Saturday. Iba Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salman at the time was the defense minister. I think this was in
twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen. He began the war and ironically enough called it Operation Decisive Storm because he was so confident that it would be over in a couple of days. And of course it turns into this Vietnam style morass which is now and it's I think eighth year, no sign of it ending a devastating effect in the people of Yemen. Has killed thousands and thousands of children from hunger. The ones that survived are overwhelmingly malnourished. Has
created the biggest cholera epidemic in modern history. And it's not just the air campaign led by the Saudis. It's a blockade, a naval blockade, and a ground blockade of them so that they can't get resources into the country, whether that's humanitarian assistance, food, medicine, things like that, which studies have shown the majority of Jumeni's have to depend depend on. So this is not a marginal issue that affects a fraction of the country. This is something that
affects most Jumenis. And so that what I learned the course of researching that story, based on leaked Pentagon documents that have been circulating in the press, was that actually the Saudis were having secret negotiations with the Houthis prior to the normalization deal between Iran and Saudi Arabia, which I think was very positive and take some of the pressure off, take some of the incentive off of the Saudis to support this air war and blockade, because the
fear was that the Huthis you know who you know, obviously are tribal, all sorts of problems. It's not a
group that you want to endorse by any means. With this normalization agreement, there's less fear on the Saudist parts that the Hoothies are going to be doing things to them on the behalf of the Iranians, and so what these leak documents which highly classified and you can see why, because they want to keep secret that they're undertaking these negotiations with this group that they've you know, deemed terrorists.
The Houthi's actually predated that normalization agreement, may have been related to it, but I think it is a cost for a lot of hope, I myself hope will be an impetus for people to try to push for further negotiations, not just around a ceasefire, because what's been celebrated is, oh, we have this great ceasefire. They're not having these cross border raids and attacks and air strikes, which is good.
But the reality is the majority of people are dying not actually from the fighting, from the air strikes, from the cross border raids. They're dying from that blockade that's keeping the food in medicine and humanitarian supplies from getting in. So my great hope is that they're able to come to some sort of agreement where they will lift that blockade and allow those resources to reach the people of Yemen, and and this terrible famine is really what it is.
So let's talk about some of the other reporting that you've done. One of the most interesting story non stories I feel like over the last couple of years has been Havana syndrome. Can you explain what is going on with Havana syndrome?
Yeah?
So, in twenty sixteen, a Vanison is named after US diplomats and spies who operating in the US embass in Cuba reported having these mysterious suite of symptoms A lot of them were sort of cognitive. They hearing loud and explicable noises, having headaches, suffering nausea whole list of things
that are kind of hard to define and understand. They started reporting all these strange symptoms and it was clustered around this embassy in Havana, and initially this was blamed on what was suspected to be some kind of directed energy weapon, and so there's a whole debate around do
these things even exist? Is this even possible? And so subsequent to those reports, US personnel and other embassies began reporting somewhat similar symptoms, and so the CIA led an investigation to try and find out what that was, and the results were released last year, and what they found was that in the majority of cases they were able to explain those by pre existing medical condition, untreated psychiatric problems to be clear, you know, in some of the
cases remain and they're not able to understand what it is. And so subsequent to that interim report that was released last year, just in March last month, there was a much more detailed intelligence community assessment drawing on a bunch of different intelligence agencies trying to answer that question what most of them ended up concluding was essentially the same thing that most of these cases have environmental causes or you know, pre existing medical conditions.
Or stress right right, or stress that kind of.
Sorry to interrupt you, but things that pops up when you are really unwilling to deal with, you know, all of the stress you're under it. I mean, these are people who are working in high stress situations totally.
And to be clear, yeah, I mean I know you know some former CIA officers and they don't seem to have a lot of trust in their medical system, and so there's there's some amount of fear that they're not going to be taken care of or that they're misunderstood. That sort of is the backdrop of all of this, and that the CI director in is announcement about the findings was like, look, I'm not saying that anyone is
being dishonest or that they're lying to us. Like we believe that these that something real is going on, we just don't know what it is exactly. And I think the subtext is kind of we don't know if this is a psychiatric thing, which in itself does still need to be treated even if it's not in order, you know, even if it's not coming from these directed energy weapons. As the intelligence found that it's not, they said they have a high degree of confidence that it's not coming
from a foreign adversary. It was initially blamed on Russia. And it's kind of a funny case because whenever I talk to people that work in the intelligence community for a while, I had asked them early on what they thought about this, and I realized it was like a roar shot test. Whatever the person's p folio was, whatever foreign country they're worried about, they tended to think that they were behind the Havana syndrome. So I knew, I
knew an FBI kind of intelligence oppicer. I was like, oh, it's got to be the Chinese, and this person's portfolio was China, And you know, to be fair to them.
It's a roar shack a little bit, right, It's what you wanted to be as opposed to maybe psychiatric stuff from being under a ton of stress, right.
And I think, to be fair the folks in the community, they do see all sorts of horrible things that these foreign adversaries are doing. They're seeing all sorts of terrible things that the Chinese are doing. That the Russians are doing, that the Iranians are doing. You know, don't dispute any of that, but I think that tends to have the effect that you start seeing them around every corner where perhaps they're not because you know, they operate in a
very secret environment. They can't talk to anybody about these things outside of their immediate colleagues. There's a needed, no basis for everything. So I think it creates this very unhealthy kind of like echo chamber. I guess where you know, they can't there's no and so I understand why they
get so paranoid about a lot of it. But we're kind of seeing this play out in the form of this syndrome there trying to figure out what it is so that the US government calls it anomaloust health incidents. That's the term they've used for it, and what I found depending on just released its budget last month and it had a thirty six million dollar request for responding
to the Havana syndrome. That includes not just medical treatment for the individuals, but like R and D like research to try to find out what the risks are associated with it, you know, what might be causing. So it's like part of a whole, and it's an interagency thing. I think that it's a lot of the money goes through the DoD because they have the medical facilities, you know, the most significant medical facilities to deal with these things.
According to this budget, which is like a thousand pages long, but if you click through it, you can find quite a lot of detail in it because it's describing like what do we need money for? It talks about all these other agencies coordinating with them, and a lot of
it is classified. There was an Inspector General report recently, I think just earlier this year that said that one of the chief problems in treating these cases is so much of the information is classified that the doctors can't figure out what the heck is going on and can't
share information with each other. Yeah, so it's kind of like in some ways, I think the story's and indictment of the overclassification and oversecrecy of the intelligence community to a point that it's hurting there on personnel and something like this.
Yeah, was there anything when you were looking through that budget that stuck out to you?
I was actually wanted to ask you about that, just.
Like how byzantine it was. I mean, as we know, the Pentagon budget is enormous. It's just sprawling us. Yeah, it's just sprawling eight hundred and forty two billion dollar requests that they put forward, which, by the way, when the Republicans under House Speaker Kevin McCarthy in his debt limit bill, which includes you know, cuts to all kinds of domestic programs from clean energy subsidies, student loan forgiveness, food stamps, all of these things, does not touch the Pentagon.
Like the single biggest expense that we that we have.
Right, single biggest expense that we have while we are currently not at war and has never been shaved at all.
Yeah, I'm just a little bit.
Curious since you've seen this document, did you see like, you know, ten million dollar toilets. Have they gotten better at not doing stuff like that?
No? I mean what you've seen is like a huge shift towards contracting that on a scale that has never existed before. So a lot of this money is going to private contractors, which you know, if you talk to some of the older military brass, they're kind of bitter about. They're like, why are we having you know, mercenaries doing all these things? Like this should be a you know,
there's a sense of honor in the military. I think that's a real thing, and people take pride in it, and I don't think they like the direction in which it's gone. But that's something I'm struck by, just how much is contracted out and how central the Pentagon system.
I mean, you talk about why the GOP wants to cut from all of these popular programs but don't want to cut from this, I would imagine it just you know, the Pentagon seems very deft at distributing money out to companies in all of these different key districts that Congress people probably aren't going to want to lose access to those jobs in that money. So it's just like this
huge leviathan that just keeps growing. And I thought that this case was kind of a illustration of that because what we saw is so in the Inspector General report, I mentioned a couple of minutes ago, they've doubled the staff, more than double the staff used to respond to its full time military personnel that have been detailed to Avana Centum, including a two star general, is being detailed to responded. So it's like it's just like everything else in the military.
It's not unique to Avana Synium. It's like that part of the budget just keeps growing.
I wanted to ask you about this mad Gates war criminal story.
What is happening.
It's funny because all these you know, maga congress people can hire whoever they want, and they really do.
Yeah, in this case, they weren't ashamed of it at all. When I went to the spokesperson for Gates that were like, yep, we're proud of this, and we back our boys overseas. And the way that they've tried to frame it is like military service members are you know, treated unfairly. It's very much like the discourse around policing here. She's like, oh, police have a very difficult job and sometimes they have to make tough decisions that you don't understand. You're never
gonna understand how hard that is. But when you delve into the details of this story, it really didn't seem that complicated to me.
A hard decision did not kill someone. It's funny because it's like it does remind me. During the Trump administration, there was a lot of like pardoning war criminals, and you know, remember that that terrifying guy who had you know, killed all these people, and they gave him a pardon.
I mean, this is just.
This idea of normalizing war criminals and normalizing violence more generally.
No, you're exactly right. There was specifically a caucus in the Congress that Gates was a part of. Louis Gohmert and several other conservative Republicans are part of. And the entire point of this caucus is commuting or lessening or reducing or pardoning sentences for service members that had been convicted of these crimes. I mean, you mentioned one case. So there's the case of Eddie Gallagher during the Trump administration. He's probably that.
Was who I was thinking about.
Yeah, gone, yeah, probably the highest profile case. He was a Navy seal who had a teenage prisoner of war. I think he was accused of stabbing him to death, and then, if I recall correctly, he sent pictures kind of like bragging about it to one of the other seals. And so that was one of the cases where I think he was pardoned or I can't remember exactly what. Trump intervened in some fashion a trial. And so this is part of the whole project that is taking place.
And so in the case of Gates' aid, who had actually been working there for several months. And I was tipped off to this by a friend who's a congressional aid, who said, Hey, why has no one done a story on Matt Gates's aid being a war criminal. I was like what. I couldn't believe the words because it is so surreal because he'd been there for like, I think six months or something. So I look into the case. It turns out what the guy told me was exactly right.
This this individual had been interrogating an Afghan civilian whom he suspected of working with the Tailban, and during the course of that interrogation shot him in the you know, straddled him and then shot him in the head, and then told some of other service members afterwards, Oh, I think I thought it was lying, so I killed him. And so he was sentenced to I think it was
like a life Yeah, it was a life sentence. And then what ended up happening was after some of these Republicans intervened, the military board ended up reducing his sentence and letting him out after I think it was maybe a decade or so. And so right after that then Gates hired him, and now he's not just an aid to Gates, he's specifically an aid on defense issues. And so when I went to the Press secretary, they weren't embarrassed at all.
I'm sorry, I shouldn't laugh because it's so upsetting and profoundly disturbing.
And I mean, as someone.
Who you know, my grandfather was a Communist who worked in the Voice of America and was, you know, very anti war, but committed to World War Two because of Nazis, obviously, and we were on the other side with the Nazis, so they like that. But the idea that we have in our government, you know, a group that is trying to make war crimes more socially acceptable, it just blows my fucking mind.
Anyway, continue, Yeah, I.
Came to this with an open mind because to some extent I think it's true. I mean, you have these kids that are like nineteen or overseas. I think about myself when I was nineteen, God where I have I mean, I probably wouldn't shoot someone in the head when I'm interrogating them, but you know, maybe I'd do something stupid. So I really wanted to give it a fair hearing.
And look, into the details of the case, and unfortunately it was not the sort of you know, nuanced complex issue that I think Gates in that caucus I was talking about tried to make it out to be. It really seemed to be a lot more black and white to me, as do many of the other cases. Unfortunately, so I think it's sort of a misdirection because they're praying on people's good will and understanding that God, we send these kids out there, they probably aren't emotionally prepared
for these things. I totally get that. I happen to agree with that, but you can't just have a blanket amnesty for every crime because of that, you know, you have to look at the specifics exactly.
Ken clippen Stein, I hope you'll come back.
My pleasure is really nice chatting with you guys.
Rana Epting is the executive director of move On.
Welcome Too Fast Politics.
Rana, Thank you, thank you for having me.
We're delighted to have you. So first things first that I want to talk to you about is move On is working on winning back the House by targeting. Tell us about your plan, because this is pretty interesting.
Yeah, So there's eighteen Republicans that won their House elections this last cycle in twenty twenty two, but turns out in twenty twenty those districts went for Biden.
So these guys are super vulnerable.
They're in moderate districts, they won as moderate Republicans, but lo and behold, they're voting with the extremist wing of the party the vast majority of the time. In fact, we looked at all their e votes, they're voting with Marjorie Hilly Green one hundred percent of the time. I'm like thirty of the most consequential votes they've taken since they came into office.
This year.
We're on the case. We think they're beatable. We're going to keep hammering on them. We started a few months ago, and we're going to go all the way through the twenty four election cycle and get these guys out of office and take back the House.
Can you explain to us a little bit about certainly a bunch of those districts are in New York State, right.
Yeah, there's a bunch in New York State.
Can you talk about the districts in New York State, because you know, as someone who lives in New York State, I feel like they really fucked up, and I want to talk about it.
I think that's a great description of what happened. They really, they really messed this one up. Yeah, a lot of these districts should have gone to the Democrat. And I think the kerfuffle in New York State this last cycle was.
Really redistricting and just like bad campaigning or no campaigning in the case of like Sean Patrick Maloney who was doing national television the Sunday before the election.
Right, So you've.
Got so here are the Republicans. You've got New York now, thanks to the fumble, you've got represented to La Looda right, New York one Lawler Molinaro. Oh, our favorite George Santos.
Right, that's right, and that's Nasau County. That's a D plus two.
And then we've got Williams in New York twenty two.
Right. And then also we have at Desposita.
Right, the Sean Patrick Maloney seat which he lost to a Republican. Yeah, so how do you flip these seats?
We have to expose these Republican electeds for the extremist elected officials.
That they are.
I mean, they ran campaigns positioning themselves as moderates and so far they have not legislated accordingly, and so it's not you know, our job is to just make the facts plane to the voters in their districts that this is not what you signed up for. I think that's something we can do over the next two years. So we're gonna we're pouring through the SEC filings. We're going to be making sure we're researching all of their actions and their speeches and what they're doing. So there's like
opposition research happening. But we've also got to like when they do the wrong thing, we got to call them out on it. So we've got organized cohorts of members in these districts ready to spin up actions in their district lobby meetings, bird.
Dogging, what have you. And then you know, we drive paid media plays as well.
But you know, it's kind of never letting your eye, never letting your focus go elsewhere, and really really giving these guys a hard time. And look, if they end up governing as the moderates they say they are great, I think that's, you know, probably what the voters wanted.
But right now that's not what the facts they're telling us.
So let me ask you about these other seats that you guys are targeting.
Yeah, so we've got a lot in California. You mentioned that we've got Duarte in California thirteen. Mike Garcia is a famous name. I mean, here's the thing. I can go through the list, right, but honestly, these people aren't Besides George Santos, they're flying under.
The radar right right, right right.
And that's the problem is they're saying, elect me, I'm.
A moderate, rebel headed Republican, and yet they're allowing the most extremist wing of the Republican Party all the shots, and they're voting with them. And so that's the problem. So a lot of these names most people may not have heard of. But if we're successful, which I believe we will be, these guys are going to be famous, you know, in a year.
Right, because it is this idea that in the Republican Party now there are no moderates. Right, if you don't vote one hundred percent of the time with Marjorie Tayler Green, you are out.
Yeah, imagine what it could have looked like.
Remember when they were voting for a speaker McCarthy earlier this year, and what then the chaos that ensued, Like, imagine what it looked like if those eighteen supposed moderate Republicans had put their foot down and said, no, we're not conceding to Marjorie Taylor Green and Matt Gates and Lauren Berber in these and we're putting our foot like they have more power, they're not exercising it. They're allowing the party to be this extremist.
Party because they're scared of the base.
Yeah, exactly, and they're scared of those that got elected in these base heavy districts.
But these guys are beatable.
I mean, you've got Representative David Schweiker in Arizona, he won by less than a percentage point, right, and then you've.
Got like Rep.
Duarte in California, who won by less than six hundred votes.
Like, this is beatable stuff here.
We just got to be focused and we've got to make plane to the voters what these guys.
Are up to. So tell me what else you're working on.
All the campaign we're doing is really focused on the eighteen Republicans in those Biden districts, but there is a lot of other stuff that's happening as well. I mean, you've got this Clarence Thomas business. Our members have been outraged around Clarence Thomas since the beginning of time, but most recently earlier this year, we had a petition over like one point three million members signed in a matter of a weekend to demand that he stepped down or
be impeached. People have had I've had it, and then you have this news that he's taken at least six trips on Harlan Crowe's private jet places like Indonesia.
I mean, what would the recourse be for something like that, for a Supreme Court justice that's pocketing millions of dollars from his owners?
I mean, what can we actually do about it? So, first of all, I don't have to tell you. I mean, the threat is huge. The fact that this is all coming out and you're seeing Republicans, most of them shrug their shoulders.
And say, what are you going to do about it?
Is very, very detrimental to the people's faith in our democratic system period. And this is the highest court of the land. So if we want to I am not a believer in tearing down faith in democracy, like I think that is a very scary posture to be in.
Right, But I mean, is there a impeachment proceedings. I mean, it's great to have a lot of people in a petition, but what could.
Because there's a split conger Congress, it's tough, but Democrats could all be calling for impeachment of Clarence Thomas. They could be forward on this. They don't have the votes because we don't have all of this, we don't have the majority, but we could be calling for the Senate could be launching hearings and to Clarence Thomas.
Right, So that makes sense, So that would be something to focus on, is Senate hearings.
For That would be a good thing to focus on.
Also, John Roberts has a responsibility to maintain the integrity of the court, so he could be having backdoor conversations or public conversations demanding that this is enough is enough, right, Like they have to protect the integrity of the highest.
Cordab land right right right.
Though.
I mean, it's not an easy slam dunk in terms of what the answer is, but shrugging our shoulders is definitely not that.
And there's a lot that Democrats can do.
Even with their limited with their with being the minority in the House, but especially with the majority in the Senate.
So let's talk about this McCarthy death ceiling fight, which is on the horizon. I mean, what does this look like for your organization? I mean what this seems like the kind of thing that there certainly have to be five Republicans who could go along with Democrats.
They might be, you know, five of those eighteen we're talking about. Shouldn't they be voting to support the full faith and credit of the United States?
You know?
So I think this is one a winnable thing for the president. But Speaker McCarthy and the extremeist wing of this party, they're just going to keep playing football with the credit of the United States, and it's going to put.
All of our economic well being at risk.
So it's not just what's in it for the president or what's in it for our campaigning, it's like, what's in it for the country.
This is insanity. I mean, we're in.
This position in the first place because Donald Trump and Republicans when they were in office, made all these tax cuts for the wealthy, and so that's why we're talking about deficits and all of that. But increasing the debt limit is a normal thing every Congress does. There If you want a way to balance the budget, you do that in the budget process. But Republicans are tying these two things together and holding it hostage. And I think at the end of the day, McCarthy and the Republicans
are going to lose this fight. Nobody wants to see the US default on its credit and they don't want to be seen as the people that pushed us into this nightmare.
Yeah Jesus Nate, this did happen though, that Republicans did default and it ended up with it was a default on the American credit rating, and it ended up being very bad for the markets. So I do think there's really downgrade. There was a credit downgrade and it ended up being very bad for the market. So I'm just curious. I mean, why do you think they won't ultimately do it?
Well, first of all, I'm not sure they have their ducks in a row right do anything, Because last I heard, last I read yes yesterday, is McCarthy put out this plan and then we're already hearing rumblings at behind closed doors Republicans were.
Arguing about it, and they're not aligned.
So I don't even know if this is going to get past the House, let alone be a fight. So it's taken them this long to even present this package, which is absurd, and the American public is not going to go for me.
Just think about it.
On the merits alone, the American public want to cut food stamps, hurt veterans' medical care, put meals on wheels.
I mean, the American public doesn't want it, but the Republican Party does.
Yeah, which is the ultimate problem we're in is the base is holding all of us hostage by their wildly unpopular views.
Right, So that's quite interesting. So do you think I mean, here we are with this stat ceiling coming down, I mean, is there anything right now that people who are listening can do?
Writing the representatives? What should they be doing?
Well, I think a really.
Cool thing people should be doing the calling leader of Speaker McCarthy's office and telling him to quit playing chicken with the full faith and credit of the United States. I mean, he's not everyone's representative, but he is the Speaker of the House and he should be hearing holy hell from voters across this country. That'd be one thing. And then I think, just like talking to folks about here is what the Republicans are asking for in exchange for a temporary one year increase of.
The debt limit. People are going to be enraged by this. This is not good faith negotiation, right.
No, that's definitely true. This has been so interesting. Thank you for joining us. I hope you'll come back.
Oh, I would love to thank you.
No, Jesse Cannon, Molly Jong Fast You know this Supreme Court ruling on mif Prostone was very sad for some of the Republicans Injustices Justice Alido.
He did not get his own way and he is not pleased.
There will be hours and hours of Fox News you will have to watch to make himself feel better. Jinny Thomas will be posting through it.
If somebody could show me the Facebook group post she's making right now, I.
Want to see Genny Thomas's Finsta.
I'm switching by Twitter handle to that.
Jenny Thomas's Finsta And for that, they are our moment of fuck Ray. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going, and again thanks for listening.