Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, where we discussed the top political headlines with some of today's best minds and New York State Attorney General Tis James says Trump still owes four hundred and fifty four million dollars in the civil judgment. We have such a great show for you today, The Lincoln Projects Stuart Steven
stops by to talk about the shifting political landscape. Then we'll talk to director Alex Gibney about his new film, The BB Files and the parallels between Trump and net Yahoo. But first the news Samali.
Christopher Ray, FBI director not supposed to be done with this term?
Is done with this term? What are we seeing here?
So he has three more years on his term. He was you'll remember, put in place by Donald Trump during Donald Trump's first term in office, when he put people who were slightly less crazy into jobs. Here's the thing. Trump wants to replace Christopher Ray with Cash Battel. He's already said that cash Battel wants to find Trump's enemies and prosecute them a la Herbert Hoover. This is a real paradigm shift. We will see if cash Battel gets
through the vetting process. I don't know that it's a huge surprise that Ray resigned because Trump would have the power to fire him. In my mind, it's a bit strange that he resigned in December when Trump still doesn't take office for another month and a half. But obviously there's something going on there.
It's a great vacation month, raight, It's a.
Great vacation month. Look, here's the thing about this. Cash Battel is not necessarily going to head the FBI. He may get through, but the Senators have an opportunity here to prevent it. And if cash Battel does get through, there really is a sense in which Cash will likely investigate Trump's enemies, and that will mean that Trump will have even more power. Right now, he's got Elon Musk telling senators that if they decide that they don't want
to support one of Trump's nominees, they're going to get primary. Now, this has not worked. The Senate is a longer range situation where people are they have the seats for six years. It's a bit different. It has worked in the House. They did were able to have an act of revenge tour in the House and primary. All of these senators who voted to impeach Trump. But here's the thing. If cash Battel does get in there, the people who are
going to end up getting investigated. As much as it'll be people like us or people like George Conway, it'll also be people like Republican senators who don't do what Trump wants. Because Herbert Hoover, you know, he didn't have a ton of loyalties. So look, maybe cash Battel makes it in there. But what I think we should keep remembering about all of this is this coalition of the Maga has a lot of different wants and needs. It's a very big tent that involves both Zionists and anti Semites,
and I think is going to be very unwieldy. Unwieldy.
I'm trying to think we U said the Coalition of the Willing, is this like the Coalition of the unwitty?
Like, what are we thinking this is?
Remember during the Gulf War when they were like, this is the new Europe.
Yeah, yeah, that's what we're.
Gonna have to workshop this before next episode.
The Coalition of the New Europe.
So it's not one of our headline segments without having to talk about the stupidity of one Elon Musk.
What are you seeing here?
So Elon Musk, the richest man in the world, who now has installed a very rich man as president. His net worth went up fifty billion dollars because SpaceX, which is a privately held space company, which you know, look, this is crony capitalism right here. Elon helps to install a president who will give him the contracts he wants so that he can go to space now the public market.
This is a private company, but it's going to go public, and the senses that this is going to help him and that the stock, the Space stock, will go crazy. You know, the Trump election made Wall Street feel that they would not have more government regulation. You'll remember that during the Biden administration they tried to break up some
of the monopolies. They tried to put in some environmental regulations, some corporate regulations, some of these things that are really greatly needed because unfedered capitalism has gotten us to a place where the wealth inequality in this country is staggering. The hope was that some of that wealth inequality could be reversed. But unfortunate people voted for the billionaire and because they felt things were too expensive, and now the
billionaire is helping make all of his friends richer. I mean, this is sort of what we saw coming. I think we'll see more of this kind of thing. Remember, Stale SpaceX hasn't gone public yet. A lot of this money is purely theoretical. But Tesla stock is up about sixty five percent since before the election, buoled by the expectations that Trump will streamline the rollout of self driving cars, which again would be a regulatory issue. And Musk is
going into the government. So here is this guy who owns all these companies going into the government to make the government more efficient. And the thinking is by a lot of investors that this will also serve elon so MAYA.
Senator Susan Collens, Republican Domain met with Pete Heigsith and apparently questioned him. I'm sure it went about as hard as when I questioned my dog about what plant they ate in the backyard, and things like that might go harder on my dog. To be honest, what do you think happened here?
You know, I'm going to chastise you for a minute for not.
The gig that Susan Collins is a serious person who tells the truth when she does statements.
Okay, I'll take it.
She said she's not sure she's going to support him.
Right, Well, she's been not sure of a lot of things, right.
But this is a math prom, right, this is a math prom You need Collins, you need Murkowski. You can lose Collins and Murkowski, but you can't lose two others. So I think the worst thing we can do is assume these people are not going to do their fucking jobs. And maybe they won't and we'll be furious. I think that it's a cop out to let them to say we don't expect this, We expect this. This is Susan
Collins's fucking job. She is up for reelection in two years in a purple state, really in a blue state, and if she wants to keep her job, and this is the same thing with Tom Tilla's. I mean, Tom Tillis is up for two years in a state that has a democratic governor. Now, and these people need to do their jobs, and it is not fair to give them any kind of pass. This is their constitutional job. And look, every time the Senate rolls over and does
what Trump wants, they are giving away their power. They are no longer a relevant body. This is all they have are these very few opportunities to enact guardrails, and voters should expect it, and they should fucking call them. You know, by the way, if you're listening to this and you're furious, call Susan Collins's office, Call Tom Tillis's office. They need to hear from you. They need to know that you're watching them.
That I agree with.
I just don't trust her to do the right thing and I trust her to say middling answers. Okay, well, now we get to the real bullshit. You and I the listeners may not know this, Somali, Let's give them a look behind the scenes. We are extremely gossipy people. Do you think they're shocked by this?
Well, I I'm just happy when the Daily Mail writes stories about people who are not me.
Yes, sir, you have said that. And so for those who aren't gossipy like us. Some people may not know that Donald Trump Junior has a new girlfriend.
This story has been sort of bubbling around. He has a girlfriend called Bettina Anderson who lives in Pombied and he's been around with her. Now you know, he's divorced but he is technically engaged to get moving, Jill Foil.
Technically technically.
What's interesting about this is Donald Trump Junior's private citizen. You know, good luck to him. No, the reason why this is interesting is because it seems like his dad is going to make Kimberly Gilfoyle the ambassador of Greece. Now, I am all about selective outrage, so I do not necessarily think that being outraged about an ambassadorship is anything worse. I mean, they're all sleazy Democrats do what sleazy Republicans do it sleazy you know, they tend to be quid pro quoll for big donors.
The rarest both sides thing that you and I would say, yes, both sides.
This one thing. Both sides do.
It stock trading too well.
Not totally relevant, but we'll keep going. I'm just saying, but yeah, both sides do this. No good can come from it. But the reason why I wanted to talk about this was because it shows the way in which the Trump government takes care of the Trump brand. Again, this is to be expected in Trump world. Though I do think it's a harbinger of bad things to come, in my mind, but I think it's also really like keep watching what they're doing behind the scenes, keep watching
the way they're sort of rewarding people. I think that's relevant and important. So I wanted to bring that up. And you know, look, Don Junior, God bless him, but Kimberly Gofile is being moved to grease for a very clear reason, and it's worth thinking about that.
I just like to think, as you especially the letter announcing it. He did one of his famous bye bye honey, I.
Look at you know, I think she's probably pretty happy to have the job.
I dope dot it.
Stuart Stephens is a legendary campaign manager and the author of the Conspiracy to End America Five Ways My Old Party is Driving our Democracy to Autocracy. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Stuart Stephens.
Were thanks, Molly, appreciate you asking.
Here we are? How did we get here?
Well, that's a profound question, a really good question, you know. The A couple of things really strike me. When Trump won in twenty sixteen, there was a great outcry, a lot of demonstrations. People seemed shocked. Now he's won again, and people, for the most part seem to be just kind of shrugging. I don't think that's a good sign.
I think that's a sign of normalization. And what he's proposing now to do with the government is obviously more severe and extreme and dangerous than what he was proposing this time in twenty sixteen. You know, I've been involved in these presidential campaigns for you won and you lost. I think it's always tempting to use a loss as a reason to push a pet theory. If only you had done this, you would have won, because there's no control to disprove it. I think the Trump coalition is
very unsustainable. I don't buy that the Republican Party has created this new multicultural coalition. You know, in Bush Royld in two thousand and four, we got up to forty three percent of Hispanics, but then that dropped thirty one or so for Romney and McCain. And Romney and McCain, we're talking about the forty millions for all to talk about African Americans. Harris ended up getting about the same as Biden. So the Trump base is still non college
educated whites. That's the fastest large demographic that is declining. Two thousand, it was sixty percent of the electric Now it's thirty eight percent. And it's interesting to me. You know, we talk about how Harris doesn't win college educated voters. She wins non college educated voters if they're not white, right.
She actually wins college educated white voters.
Yeah, there's a great trend in politics to say demographics are destiny. Then a great trend to say demographics are not destiny. I'm kind of in the demographics of destiny camp. The country is becoming a minority majority country if you're sixteen years in younger majority or non white. So I don't think that there's anything that Trump is going to do that is going to increase his popularity. I think he's at a higher order mark now, which would not
be a typical for any president. But what he's proposing to do, particularly the deportation, if you actually do that and have thousands of paramilitary law enforcement rounding up brown people, it's going to be such a shock. And if you're Hispanic, he voted for Trump maybe because of the economy, and he's deporting your father in law, Just not so sure that's going to keep you stuck to Trump. These attacks on journalists, these nuts like Caspitel. I think the whole
Elon Musk thing is not going to wear well. You can't have two extreme narcissists on the same stage for very long. And at a certain point, you know, Musk and Ramasamy are weirdos, but they're not stupid. And at a certain point they're going to realize to belong to a committee that the only other person is Marjorie Taylor Green is an insult. This crazy stuff they're proposing. They're not going to pass any of this stuff. It's like
deals with anything. Cutting entitlements, you know, they may found that there's some and they will find if you go into government, you can find that there's things. Why is there a big grant study the appropriation rate of polar bears? Well, that actually probably is a reason to that. But you're not going to be able to go in and cut tradions of dollars without having a fracture in the civil contract in America. So I'm optimistic. I think Democrats should
have a very good year. I wish the Democrats were more aggressive about defining these crazy nominees and the risk of these nominees. They seem to be taking a approach that, well, we'll focus on this when they come up. I need'd be better if they were out there holding press conferences and doing whatever they can to show the danger of them, So you're not leaving it to the last moment, you know.
To me, if you look back, the model for gold standard, as it were for communications on that center left side was the January sixth Committee. They did a brilliant job of making it relevant, of telling a story, and I think that there to be well advised to look at what they did successfully then and try to imitate it.
Now, let's talk through for a minute what the sort of Trump coalition he has, this coalition, I mean, we are in this Usually what happens between administrations is there's this seventy plus day period where everyone is kind of muted because there's a sense in which you want to
give the coming administration a chance. I'm just saying historically, I personally don't necessarily feel this way, but there's historically the sort of seventy whatever plus days before the inauguration, between the election and the inauguration is a period when everyone is like hopes against hope that things will go okay. I'm curious when we talk about this coalition that Trump has. You have white, non college educated a lot of young people a lot, but more young people than perhaps many
of us thought. Then you have a kind of he did way better with Hispanic voters than perhaps he could have dreamed, you know, places like the Rio Grand Valey voting for him. And then you have non college educated, older people, white people. There's a mix, but that's largely the coalition. It strikes me that the two biggest things on Trump's agenda right now are deportation and tax cuts, and everything else is sort of shades, but tax cuts for the very wealthy because those are about to expire,
and deportation. I'm wondering if you could just explain to us sort of Republicans they will soon have a one seat majority in the House of Representatives. Mike Johnson is not Paul Ryan by any stretch of the imagination. In order to deport a million people, two million people, he wants to deport, you know, more people than there are quote unquote I legal immigrants. Don't you need money for those?
Yeah, you need money. It's a massive logistical operation. So you're going to build holding camps with them. Really, we're really going to do that in America in twenty twenty five. People are going to compayn them my tax dollars to set up internment camps. And this idea that well, we're not going to separate families is we're going to take them all. Like that little issue on this is so you know, it's been reported that Elon Musk a lot
about his student status during his naturalization process. If that's true, that's grounds to lose his citizenship. That means if we deport Elon Musk, we'reing to deport his children too. Really, the spectacle of it is going to be so offensive, and you go back to the cases that we know of police brutality resulted in deaths is ongoing issue, and then you have one specific horrible image video. You know, all of this is not going to go down quietly.
It's going to be people recording on their phones when they're coming into homes. I still don't think this is where America is. I think the key thing for people who didn't vote for Trump is to not be deluded that you were wrong. It just made you lost an election. You know, I grew up in Mississippi and I remember sitting around watching my parents. They would support all these
candidates who are not segregationists. Then they would lose. That didn't make my parents want to believe that they should be segregationists. And I think that's very important to keep that we're right there wrong. If you support a president who wants to jail former members of Congress because they investigated the greatest attack on the capital since the War of eighteen twelve, If you support a president who wants to jail journalists for doing their job, you're not a patriot.
You're not. I don't think we should give them that space, should give them that sort of benefit of the doubt. That's not just a difference of opinion, it's a completely different view of what it means to be an American.
Yeah, we're in this sort of cabinet secretary run up. Republicans have an opportunity to engage in their constitutional duty of advising consent Article two, Section two. You know Gates is out. This is something victory is even a small victory is a victory. The reporting was a Ted Cruz called Donald Trump and said, you don't have the votes. What do you think about where they are right now?
It goes back to my talks about Democrats and needing to do a better job. I think democrats ought to be out there saying we're going to ask every nominee do you believe Donald Trump lost a free and fair election in twenty sixteen? And if they say no, we're not going to vote for you, nothing else matters. If you're Marco Rubio and you say no, we're not going to vote for you, that should be a standard. It
should be a standard. Do you believe that the Ellens who were convicted for assaulting police officers on January sixth, twenty one should be pardoned? If you say yes, you're disqualified for being a cabinet member, I think they ought to start off every hearing that way. Do you believe? Because what Trump is trying to do is erect his loyalty test. Isn't a test are you loyal to me? In the same way you would say is a vice
president loyal to a president? The loyalty test is do you believe I Donald Trump have the ability to override the Constitution. It's like the fura oath, and you can't allow that to happen because that undermines the whole concept of the Bill of rights, whole concept of rule of law. So I think those are to be threshold questions and I wish Democrats would be out there hitting this harder.
Right now, there is a kind of you know, there will be hearings, right You will see publicized hearings. You will see members ask these potential cabinet secretaries about you know, when it comes to Hagsath his payment for an alleged sexual assault, when it comes to when it comes to RFK. You know, the level of skeletons in the closet are breathtaking.
I mean, one of the things that I am curious about is if Trump has an agenda that is wildly outside of the norm, that will take money and goodwill, and I mean, how much does this cabinet secretary derail him? This cabinet secretary fight.
Well, you know, it's a very interesting question because you think about it. Why is he nominating Hexit? Why not nominate say DeSantis would get bipartisan support. Been in the military, say okay, he's run a big organization in the Florida government. Will may not like it. People are not like his views on women in combat. I don't know what the standards views are. Assume he's against it, but you'd still
vote for him. So but he goes and picks this you know, weirdo, clearly damaged, misogynist guy who, like so many in the Trump world, they use the public sphere to work through personal problems. M And you know, government should be a lot of things, but it shouldn't be therapy, and it shouldn't be a way for you to get even into people that you know put you in lockers in high school. Because Stephen Miller, it's very self defeating. And there's this tendency to give Trump credit when he
does something stupid. For well, there must be you know, some higher plan here that we're just not grasping, Like I'll nominate Matt Getz and then you know, we know he won't get it, so then they'll allow me to get a headset. I don't think it's that calculating.
I would never subscribe three dimensional chests to any of this exactly.
It's just why have this fight. So Marco Rubio is a good example, Marco Rubio, I would expect they'll get bipartisan support. And look, Marco Rubio, it's a chairman's Republican Center and Intelligence Committee, Republican head of it that came to the conclusion that Russia tried to help elect Trump in twenty sixteen, and Rubio has been right on Ukraine.
I have a question about Marco, which is, why would anyone who has seen Trump in action take this job? Right, Like, if Marco goes into this job and Trump decides to fire him, which if history is any guy, that seems very likely that at some point they're going to come into collision and Trump is going to say, you know, I never forget it. You know, you're not doing what I want. He doesn't get to go back to the Senate.
Yeah, you know, I suspect in the case of Rubio, he just thinks that that moment won't come because ultimately he'll refer to Trump, you know. I mean, I think Marco Rubio, it's just remember this is the guy who was on the cover of Time magazine twenty fourteen or so, you know, the Republican savior, you know, who went out and spoke truth for a very brief time about Donald Trump, and then Trump just broke him. And I think it's
an incredibly sad spectacle. But I don't think Rubio has any principles that Trump is going to violate such that he would say, you know, if we do this on resigning or trying me. I'm not going to carry this out. I just don't think it's in his DNA. I think he's just one of these sort of accidental figures. Came up in Florida politics really because Jeb Bush was trying to build this Hispanic Republican coalition and people forget about this, but you know, in Florida it's legal to be a
state legislature legislator and the lobbyist, and Rubio was. He got elected because he ran against Charlie Christ for the Senate. Charlie Christ was a client of mine. Charlie Chris should have run for reelection as governor. Instead he ran for the Senate. It was clear from the beginning that he was not well positioned to win a Republican primary. So ultimately Charlie got out ran as an independent, which was
looney we quit working for. And then and then Rubio got elected, and you know what has he really done? So I think for Rubio to say okay on Secretary of State, I wouldn't be surprised if he does go the distance.
Stuart Stevens, thank you, thank you, thank you, really appreciate you.
Thank you.
Molly love the show. Listen to it every episode.
Alex Gibney is a legendary documentary producer and director of films like Going Clear, Zero Days, and his latest The BB Files. Welcome Back to Fast Politics, Alex Gibney.
Thank you so much, Molly.
This movie is amazing. Just the whole story behind it is so interesting. So explain to me what the dB files. How this came to path.
You know, one day I was on a you know, I just looked at my signal and I get no. I get queries on signal from time to time. Some of them are crank calls and some of them are the real thing. This one was the real thing. And the person who ultimately became my source said, I have this footage that I think is very valuable. It's police interrogation videos of Benjamin Netanya, who's wife Sarah is Sonya year and many many others, all relating to the netanyahuo
corruption investigation. Now, this was in twenty twenty three, before October seventh. This is at the height of this sort of the judicial overhaul crisis in Israel. I was very interested, but I don't speak Hebrews, so I wasn't able to you know, I could see it, and he sent some sample was over the trans and I could see it,
but I didn't know precisely. I involved a journalist named Reviv Drucker from Israel, who is a very talented investigative journalist and has been on the corruption beat for some time, and he was able to confirm that this was a mother load. And then I brought on Alexis Bloom to direct the film, and we faced the prospect of trying to make this film in secret while I was trying
to raise money for it in secret. But it turned out to be something very powerful, though it started as something other than what it became.
BB is very important because his corruption, even though it's perhaps not at the same scale of Trump's corruption, there is a lot of parallels. Israel is in a very complicated place because of BB and any number of other factors. But can you explain to us what the sort of pressures and these kind of documentaries are likely going to be the thing that, if anything, acts as a guardrail to keep the corruption that Trump well, you know, hopefully not, we all hope not, but to keep corruption in check.
So talk to us about what the crosswinds were like and what that experience was like.
You mean, the cross lends in terms of getting it.
Made, yes, and also just the anxiety and that I'm sure you had to behave in secrecy, and I mean, just talk to me about what that was like.
We had to do it in secret because we didn't know what kind of blowback there might be when these materials surface. And then of course there was a period, you know, post October seventh, where we wondered, how do we reckon with this now? I mean, it was a horrific moment, and how did it relate to the story we were telling. Then soon after Netanyahu embarked on this horrific killing campaign in Gaza, and it became clear that
there were levels of corruption to this story. That was what knitted it all together, and that his attempts to sort of elude judgment, which of course is very resonant with Trump, his attempts to undermine the rule of law, and his attempts to sort of treat the government as a kind of personal fiefdom, even though we know that, you know, in order to stay in power, he had to make these alliances with these incredibly far right characters and is Smo Trick and Ben Giber in particular, it
just showed us the way to think about the story as a tale of Titanic corruption, because you take venal petty corruption, you know, trading expensive champagne and cigars and jewelry for political favors, to a point where you've got well this is like real time, Sorry about that, where suddenly you've got a man who's literally embarking on a permanent war in order to keep out of prison. That is just a staggering level of corruption.
I want you to talk a little more about that sort of war that he really did do to stay in power and he managed. I mean, we all saw it happen in real time, but it's still is a bit stocking.
It is shocking, and in a way, I think what the film could do, in what some of the print reporting about this could not, is to show in real time with this footage the sort of venality of these characters, so that it becomes more believable that they would both
undermine democracy and also act in a way. What was consistent about it was there was a sense of entitlement in the footage that I think even Israelis who have pirated the film at this point rapaciously have noticed and been gobsmacked by that led to this idea that what is good for the state is good for me, and what is good for me is good for the state, right tas Seinoa. And that was really an incredible insight
that this footage provided. Even though you know obviously these police interrogation videos take place well going back to twenty seventeen eighteen, it still gives insight into the characters and how they operate, which sort of blows a hole in this idea that nets in Yahoo is Israel. The nets you know that he's operating according to his own agenda, not the nation's agenda, or he thinks they're one and the same.
That seals so deeply trumpy. You know that there is a connection between the good of the autocrat and the good of the state. Israel is in a similar moment to America. Right, both countries are in the grips of an autocrat. Explain to me where you were able to release this film and sort of what the confines were.
The one deal I had to make with the source, and that was the condition was that I not released the film or caused the film to be released officially. In Israel, there's a privacy law in Israel, which says that if somebody is photographed or tape recorded as part of an official proceeding, like a police interrogation, that material can't be published without the permission of the subject. In this case that ta yahoo Sarah yayir. We're definitely not going to agree. So somebody who can be linked to
that can go to prison. So the source said, I will give you this material on one condition. You can do with it whatever you will, but you can't cause it to be officially released in Israel, So it can be released all over the world, but not in Israel. And that that's a little bit why on our trailer and other things we played games with reactions and voice alteration. Just with the trailer, anybody wh wants to see it
outside Israel can see it now. It just so happens that as the film has started to emerge, people have pirated it and they're sharing faciously without my permission or anybody else's permission in Israel. And I must say that
the reaction there has been, you know, staggering. People are really shocked by the materials in a way that people predicted to me they wouldn't be because they know this stuff but it's it's one thing to know content another thing to see people behave, particularly Sarah and Yayir, their contempt towards the state, their contempt toward the rule of law really comes out in the way they insult the detectives and the way they act in such an entitled
manner throughout all these videos. It's really something to see.
I really do think that their ability to really believe that this is all for them, it feels very Trumpian.
The one distinction I might make though, I think Trump, you know, obviously falls into this, and malignant narcissists often do this sense of grandiosity. But for many years, I think BB felt that he was on a mission and convinced everybody else that he was on a mission to do what was best for Israel. But over time, that mission, that noble cause, corrupted him. You know, police have a
term called noble cause corruption. And so he began to think, well, I'm doing so much good for the country, I deserve a few favors, Like how about some cigars, how about some champagne? How about jewelry? How about people pay for me wherever I go? You know, oh yeah, sure, so what if I give people some regulatory favors worth hundreds of millions of dollars in exchange for favorable coverage. I'm
doing so much good for the country. So this rationalization that takes place now Trump, I think always came from a much more personal, personal gain perspective. Is like just you know, I think he ran in twenty sixteen because he thought it'd be better for his brand, he'd have a cable TV show that'd be great, and then, much to a shock and surprise, he won the presidency this time.
I think he's now assumed a sort of grandiosity though though I think he ran, you know, eighty percent of the reason he ran was to stay out of prison. So there are some kind of eerie parallels. Though I think Nathan Yahuo kind of started in a different kind of a place.
This closing up to the far right in order to stay empower similar thing Trump did right largely, yes, quickly.
On aborshe Trump was never going to get elected unless he had the evangelicals, and so he made that Faustian bargain and basically said, if I get in, I'll give you the justices that will overturn Roe v. Wade. So that became a Passion Project, and evangelicals could say to themselves, you know, God has delivered us a sinner to take us to the promised.
Land, right, And that is similar to Nan Yahu, right, he.
Is, though I think in Natiao's case it was much more pragmatic. In other words, how can I stay in power? The only way stay in power is to form a coalition with these people with whom I would not have my photograph taken with, you know, five years earlier. And
and their agenda was really a rapacious agenda. I mean they wanted to utterly annex the West Bank, which, by the way, you know, I would argue is one of the things that allowed for the attack on ten to seven, because we have there's a there's a moment in the in the interrogation tapes in the film where Natia was talking with the police about how he's keeping Hamas in check and saying, you know what they say and the
Godfather keep your friends close and your enemies closer. But I think the idea was buy off Hamas so that that will undermine the Palestinian authority so we can then continually rapaciously expand settlements into the West Bank. That was also to some extent what was going on with the judicial reform? Do I think in that case, just like with Trump, the judicial reform was kind of like, how can I take control or exert greater influence over the judiciary so I can affect my own cases.
Yeah, and stay in power as long as bossball.
Right, stay in power a desperate need to stay in power.
Are there lessons from this story? Obviously net Yahoo is still in power, Trump about to take power again. But do you think there are lessons from this slope?
I do, And I think one of the lessons is pay attention early, because when you see that kind of corruption manifesting itself, you can't look the other way. And the other lesson I think is don't ever fall for that argument. The end justifies the means. BB always uses it. I stand for Israel. Therefore, do not criticize me, because
if you criticize me, you're criticizing Israel. But once you start to say unequivocally that the end justifies the means, you're traveling down the road to corruption that will only get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. So being suspicious of that idea at the beginning is really important. It's kind of like, how do you sniff this stuff out early before it's too late and suddenly they're autocrats with an enormous amount of power.
Yeah, I mean, there's just so much important information from this. And also you really do get the sense that or at least answer this question for me if you don't mind, Do you actually get the sense that this will change things in Israel?
I hope. So. I think a lot of Jews in this country feel strongly, you know, have felt very powerfully about seeing this film because they see a distance it's placing between Nettignaho and Israel that he is not Israel. It's not the same thing. And obviously Israel at this moment is a deeply divided country, just as we are.
But I do think that seeing him in this light and separating him from the state as if he is the embodiment of it, and also seeing the cynicism with which he's conducting these kind of forever wars, I hope, will have an impact in Israel. But that's ultimately up to the Israelis and to some extent us, I mean, you know, we're arming netsa Yahoo I.
Should have Yeah, do you get the sense that the Biden administration has any sort of understanding of what's going on there with Ntyaho, I do.
But I just think they put themselves in such a feckless position in order to do anything about it. I thought Netiyah who played Biden like a fiddle, and Biden would stamp his feet and say I'm so angry with you BB, and BB would just chuckle, you know, because he knew that Biden wasn't going to stop the flow of weapons, which is the one thing that would have gotten everybody's attention. If you're going to threaten somebody a
bit prepared to follow through on that threat. If you really want the carnage to stop, then you have to be prepared to take the steps that only this country can take to you know, affect a change like that. But you have to be willing to take those steps.
And it did seem like Nanya who just outfoxed Biden and the admin. And at every point.
I think he did. And also once even once the campaign turned to Kamala, you could see him turning up the heat in the Middle East. It's like, this is my opportunity. Nobody from the Democratic Party is going to do anything to me, right now, and so I'm just gonna do whatever I want. And you can see him opening front after front after front now even bombing Syria after Assad is toppled. You can make all sorts of arguments strategically about this or that, but you can see
him playing the card of being the wartime president. Let's you know, I think the other analogies here also go back to nine to eleven. I mean, let's remember that the Bush was an incredibly unpopular and almost discredited president prior to nine to eleven, and he used nine to eleven and the need to win the war on terror? How did that work out to ennoble himself and ultimately want a second term. But you know, into that moment, the wheels were falling off the car.
Oh it's so true, alex Thank you so much for coming on and talking to me about this. I really had wanted to talk to you about it, and I am heartened by the fact that you're doing stuff like that.
Well, thank you so much, Molly. I should add for everybody listening like this is this is a FELM I produced. It was directed by Alexis Bloom, who did a spectacular job and at least in this country. It's on a new platform called Jolt dot Film, So I encourage everybody to see.
It, and it's really easy to download and it's not expensive, and you know, it's the future, hopefully, hopefully. Yeah, thank you, Alex.
All Right, Molly, good to talk to you.
There no moment.
Jesse Cannon, all right, Molly Trump first season, first presidency. I'm gonna shock you. Looks like there are some abusive powers.
DOJ secretly obtained phone and text message logs at forty three congressional staffers and two members of Congress seeking to investigate leaks of classified information. And we're not surprised because we knew this was coming. They got these logs at forty three congressional staffers, two members of Congress in a
broader probe. So this is a report from the Inspector General that the DOJ didn't act with political motives but failed to take sufficient account of constitutional separation of the power. You think they really didn't act with political motives. I think they did act with motives. What fucking I mean? This is like Democrats bringing his stuff to animal to a knife fight. Yeah, they just did it because they I mean, what other motive is there? Anyway, So this
is a Bill Barr special. He personally approved the news media subpoenas in twenty twenty. A committee that had been set up to review any such moves was not consulted, as policy required. The report said Bill Barr did not cooperate with the investigation because why would he. This is going to be too California Democrats Adam Schiff and Erswolwow that they had been targeted in these records seizures. Look, this is going to look like nothing compared to what they're going to try to do next season.
As someone married to a congressional staffer, I really feel bad for that bureaucrowd is going to have to sit through all the dog photos and beabs.
Yeah, well, this is where we are, and I think that it's really, really, really bad, and I think we're just seeing the beginning of it. And I think we have to just be so incredibly vigilant about reporting on this and talking about it and making sure, Look, these guys respond to respond to pushback. The only way to save American democracy is to make sure that we're vigilant. You know. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics.
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