Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, where we discussed the top political headlines with some of today's best minds. And Donald Trump is now selling pieces of the suit he wore during his mugshot to people who buy his digital trading cards.
We have one hell of a show today.
Senator Shared Brown stops by to talk about his re election campaign in the Great State of Ohio. Then we'll talk to Democratic strategist Jim Messina about how Biden can win in twenty twenty four. But first we have the host of the Time of Monsters, the Nation's Jed here.
Welcome back to Fast Politics.
Jeed here, good to be on the program.
You sound very like normal and sane, and I sound very wild, but that's because you're in Canada, where life is still normal insane, and I am in America, where everything is crazy.
Yeah. I think in Canada, even if you're like Hi, on cocaine, you tend to be calm and.
You're also so if you're high in cocaine, you're usually what's that politician Doug.
Well, Doug Ford, Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well there's his brother Rob part He is the de mayor of Toronto. Famous scene in a crack video, but still much calmer than Donald Trump. So it was ross crack.
So first, we're going to talk about a little bit of Canada content here, because I know that's what the listeners long for. I read something about Justin Trudeau that he is and his party again because I don't know this sort of local Canadian political landscape, but that Trump is such a toxic brand that actually in Canada, Justin Trudeau can run against him.
Yeah, I think that that's going to happen. The Liberals, which is Justin Trudeau's party, are really lagging in the polls. They're suffering some of the same problems I think that all incumbent parties are having, including the Democrats where they're associated with the hangover from COVID. But yeah, I think that the Adian Conservative Party has radicalized in recent years. The head of the party of Paulvier, is a Trump like figure in some ways, and I think is very
vulnerable on that front. And as an example, I think it's very interesting the Canadian Conservatives have turned against Ukraine and are voting against this feet trade deal that Canada's negotiating with Ukraine. They took me by surprise because Canada has a lot of Ukrainians. We took a lot of Ukrainians in both before the Second World War and afterwards. It has i think the largest population of Ukrainians outside
of Ukraine. Yeah, Traditionally a lot of there have been conservatives, and so for them to turn against Ukraine in the context of, you know, a country that has a lot of Ukrainian immigrants, it's really something I think fits in with this larger pattern of trump Ism.
So interesting. Will you say a little more about that.
Well, it's generally the case that all the sort of right wing populist parties in Europe and the United States and Canada. The cynical way to put it is that they're taking the put In line. I think the more neutral ways that they tend to be the isolationists about Europe. They tend to think like, you know, if white people are fighting white people, you know, we don't have a
dog in that fight. Yeah. So the Canadian conservatives are becoming very isolationist about Ukraine, you know, and using the arguments that I think you hear from the GOP as well, like this is a waste of money.
And besides, what is fascism It'll be fun.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's an interesting development. And I think Canada is a big supporter of Ukraine, and that's just one issue of many. But I do think that the Canadian Conservative Party has gone on this sort of populist event, which is where grantable. I mean, I think Canada tradition has had one of the most centrist of conservative parties. They used that to used to be called the Progressive Conservative Party. If you can flee love, So that's all a thing of the past.
That's really interesting. So I want you to talk a little more about this idea you just brushed by, But is I think really important post COVID hangover.
I think one thing that we're seeing in all the sort of democracies is that incumbent parties send to be in trouble. And I think a lot of that is not just about specific policies, but the fact that they you know, like after COVID, you know, when we're thinking that everyone is happy, but there's actually a lot of side effects that happen with inflation, but also, like I think even more broadly, the sort of degradation of social life,
like here in Canada. Our healthcare system, which many Americans admire, which used to be quite good, it's sort of fraying.
A lot of doctors and nurses have left dead. There's a lot more people that are sick because of long COVID and so like everything is getting worse, and you know, more broadly, like just like driving, like like you know, there's just a lot more people that are driving very aggressively, or there's a lot of ways in which like social life has changed and people are just angrier and more
willing to give vent to their anger. And unfortunately, I think that hurts incumbent parties and it helps a particular type of right wing populace, which your listeners will know in the form of Trump, but you know exists in many democracies. You know, there's a lot of anger out there, and if someone is willing to, you know, be the voice of that anger, they can go hard.
We talk about this populous rage. This is what brought Trump into power. That's really scary and it speaks to a certain Americans feeling.
And Canadians and in other countries. We have Georgia Maloney, we have in Italy there's a pen you know, she's not elected, but she could be with the poles.
These polls may not be accurate, but they reflect a kind of anger because people get on the phone and say, like, no, I don't like it.
I don't know.
No, I think that's exactly right, and I mean it's interesting to think about. Like, I mean, one thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the polling is because Democrats who will eventually vote for Biden are disaffected with him, you know, share the anger, so they're just say they're not going to vote for him, like
everything's going to tighten up. But I mean it's still terrifying that it's going to be a close election, and you know, it's like Trump is all the valid I think that the anger comes from I think people's sense of a fraying society. And there's a kind of paradox, like the economy is actually doing quite well in the United States. It's actually better than in Canada and better
than in Europe. Like if you just look at the raw numbers, some Democrats who are kind of arguing, well, you know, this is just like media bias is making people think the economy is bad and it's not right.
I think it's an oversimplification, right, Yeah, it's an oversimplification of the fact that people are, like, there are genuine things for people to be unhappy about.
Still, like life expectancy is going down in the United States. I believe the number of uninsured is going up, but also like just generally social life as I think changed and altern in a way that makes people angry and alienated.
Yeah.
I also think that when you were talking about this life expectancy, because we just had a really interesting episode and worth looking up. I think one of the most interesting interviews I've ever done with John Byrne martin Financial Times. Yeah, he walked us through how in every age in America you are more likely to die and your several multiples
more likely to die. But one of the things that I thought was very interesting about this was I wonder how much all of this, you know, this is a post COVID rage, this like you know, fury about how things are not getting better or they're not getting better as fast, but that there's a sense that even the threat of voting for Trump, because you know what he's capable of, is a subversive act.
Can you discuss.
Yeah, No, I mean I think that's the unfortunate thing, which is and I think it's the basis of Trump's power, both in twenty sixteen when he was like harnessing a lot of the rage from the fact that the recovery from the Great Recession hadn't happened fast enough and some of the social problems that we're seeing we're already developing, and now, which is that he really is the FU candidate, Right, if you're mad at the way the world is, this
is you'll stick it to the man. And a lot of people use Trump for that way, like like not that they necessarily agree with him or even think he has a solution, and they really want to show the powers of b that be, like how mad they are. And so he has the advantage of, you know, he's
the anti system politic politician. And I think that Democrats sometimes are a little bit flat footed in opposing this because they try to play up certain things in Trump that actually worked for his advantage, because they highlight his
anti system nature. Like I think there's a limited amount you can do with some of his criminal activities, although I certainly believe the law should go after him, But if you make that the main political argument, there's a lot of people think, yeah, this guy's a crook, but that shows he's for real, right, he's our kruok, he's our crook, right, Yeah, and he doesn't he's not owned by the system in the way the honest person would be. More broadly, I don't think you could run on America
is already great. The slogan which was used like by Obama and the Hill in twenty sixteen. In Canada, we see an interesting variation of this because the Conservatives, you know, one of the slogans that they have now is Canada
is broken. Unfortunately, Christia Friedland, who's the Deputy Prime Minister, came out with you know, tweet saying, you know, Canada has never been broken, right, And I think that if you know, if you have people that are struggling to buy housing, see growth fees that are more expensive, you know, to say Canada has never been broken, you know, it sounds complacent and it sounds like you don't want to do anything, right. I think that that's the big problem.
Like I think you have to like feel people's pain, as Bill Clinton says, you have to offer people out of an awareness that I know, things are like, you know, not where they want to be and here's what I'm going to do, and I'll fight for you.
I think that's right. And I also think that you cannot tell people that their reality is wrong.
I mean, that will just make them furious.
They are unfortunately, like a whole school of Democratic pundents whose basic response to like all the pulling data saying, you know, people are okay, feel that their own finances are okay, but they feel the economy in the wrong direction and the countries going in the wrong word direction. Their whole response is, oh, people are just brainwashed by TikTok, Right, you are just brainwatched by the media. And I'm sorry if that's your answer, Like who's going to listen to you?
And you don't actually like offer any path to win these people back.
Well, And also if they're brainwashed, it's your fault.
Yeah, don't you know. Like I think there's a lot of media bias that works against the Democrats. But like the great Democratic politicians and you know, like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, they also have the ability to like override the media. They had a voice that was so compelling that it could swamp whatever the New York Times or the networks were saying, or Fox was saying, you know, whether Joe Biden has that ability or not, I'll leave it to your listeners to the side.
Well, I also think that one of the really underreported stories about Joe Biden is that people like him more than they think they do. Yeah, which is why he pulls poorly but does much better in elections.
Right.
I wrote a piece in twenty sixteen about how he should drop out because he had lost a lot of primaries, right, And I was like, if you're going to be the front runner, you have to run in front. And the truth was, you know, there's something I mean, I do not underestimate the innate racism of the American voting public. He feels like a normal white guy, and I think that's a huge advantage for him.
Yeah, No, I do think that works, and there is a lot of affection for Joe Biden. Then, more to the point, like I think if it does come down to Trump versus Biden, like a lot of the Democrats will rally because people remember the Trump era and then Trump is in fact widely solved. But you know, like I think the broader for local problem is you kind of have to fear a waste to override the media
the negativity. And I'll just point to the democratic governors, you know, Like I think if you look at the polling, a lot of the governors are actually pulling quite well in their states. And I think one reason is that we have a lot of democraticors that are really effective communicators but also like putting forward a strong agenda and so people feel like, you know, well, this is someone
who's out there. I may not agree with them on everything, but they're doing things, They're fighting for things, and I think that's just so crucial. And I'm hoping that, you know, like as we go into the election year, the Biden team is able to like they don't fall into this trap of just blaming the media, and they you know, like they offer this positive vision of what they can do to help make people's lives better.
And I think that that is the economic populism, which is you know, we had shared Brown on this podcast. People respond to it. The net of it is what has Biden been doing right? He's been bringing manufacturing back to America. I mean, yeah, one of the great examples is like this, the Ukraine money goes to building weapons in the United States. Now again I don't get super psyched about weapons.
Defense contractors are not like my favorite.
You know, I grew up during the all for one and two, so I do not have a place in my heart for raytheon. But I do think that it really is an important data point that the whole goal of Bidenomics is to bring manufacturing back to the United States.
Yeah, yeah, I know. I do think he has a good economic record, and I think there's stuff to run on, and we're really I mean, like it is about getting the message out there. I mean I thought that like Obama in twenty twelve was very creative about like doing things like that, just going on like you know, sports radio, right, and like people would never pay at that to the politics. But certainly, you know, Obama's talking about his picks and then he mentions his policies. There are ways that you
can you can get around the media. I mean, I think that's the work that has to be done. No, again, I don't think it rests just on Biden or you know, his reelection campaign. I think it's a broader Democratic Party thing, and you know, like you know, as we're near the end of the year, like we should also emphasize the polling is a bit bleak, but you know, Democrats have done really well, Like the midterms were good and that all all the special elections. What you're seeing is Democrats
outperforming the fundamentals, outperforming what they usually do. And to me, that shows, you know, there's a lot of signs out there that is becoming a stronger party with especially like a stronger grassroots and stronger people who've been radicalized by Dobbs and radicalized all the you know Moms for Liberty garbage who are like radicalized by January sixth and really worry about their democracy. You have a really strong grassroots that's you know, they're going to go to the mat.
Yeah, I think that's right. Gee here, thank you so much for joining us. I hope you'll come back.
You can't keep me away from you.
Shared Brown is the senior senator from the great state of Ohio. Welcome back. I think you've actually been on this podcast before. Senator Sharon Brown.
Good to be with you. I really appreciate your doing this well.
I'm very excited.
So I want to talk to you about DoD but first I want you to talk to us a little bit about your senate race.
I can't believe. I feel like you just had a center raise, But I guess it was six years ago, right, I.
Guess it was.
And these rais, I mean with the money you spend and chaos going on in the House representatives now, it seems like elections never in, but I guess they do.
And then you move on.
Yeah, so sort of get me up to speed about what's happening.
Yeah, I represent a state Trump won twice. I will be Trump's likely his number one target in the country were Trump because he won a while by eight points each time. Think they could beat me, But keep your head down. I focus on this job, on the dignity of work. Ohio is not as conservative as some national media people like to think. We passed by thirteen points a const social amendment on abortion rights. All three of my Republican opponents facing each other in the March primary
next year or for an abortion national abortion band. So you know I've never said mine. I think I said this to you before. I never see politics as sort of left to right liberal. I see it as whosidy on And this is so clear at abortion rights that you know I side with women in their in their families and their doctor and my opponents. They think that politicians and Columbus or Washington should make those decisions and voters in my state that hell not to that.
Yes, they did with that abortion measure in August.
We talked a lot about how, you know, the sort of Ohio Republicans war on balid initiatives and how they wanted to raise the margins to make it harder to pass a ballot initiative that didn't work. They had that vote in August than they had this abortion vote.
You are Ohio through and through.
Do you feel that Ohioans Is it like Kansas with brown Back? Is there a kind of fury towards these Republicans?
Well, I think it's it's clear that Ohio don't want the rights taken away. Even people that might not have voted for Issue one are already incensed. A lot of them that even though when had passed by thirteen points, that there are still Ohio Republicans at the state House and on the court system whatever that still think they don't have to abide by this constitutional amendment, and that's
just wrong. This is a state. But leading up to this constitutional amendment, it's pretty interesting in that seven hundred thousand people signed a petition as you said, Republicans to go. They tried to disqualify a number of those signatures. Then they went to the ballot to try to raise the threshold and set a fifty percent plus one to amend the constitution needed sixty percent. Then politicians and Columbus changed the ballot language. They're supposed to summarize the vaalot language.
Instead they made it longer and they put things in there like preborn child in the ballot language. Then they made it harder to vote. If you go to Ohio State or Kent State or University of Cincinnati, you get a student ID issued by a state underscore state university, that doesn't get you a ballot. You still have to get a state ID. It's clear that the opponents to a abortion rights tried to do everything, yet we still
won my thirteen points and they're still fighting it. So people just you know, women don't trust Paul Ohisle politicians. And then on top of that, you got the three Republicans I said running for this seat in the March primary that are still saying we're for a national abortion band, which is a direct hit in the face to the fifty six percent that voted for these constitutional rights.
You've been involved in Dodd Frank. Will you give us a little bit of an explanation of what's happening with Dodd Frank right now.
We had a hearing last week with the six with the eight Masters of the universe, the largest bank, the president CEOs of the largest banks in the country, who wield immense power in this economy. Frankly wield amidst power in the halls of Congress.
The Federal Reserve.
Have a rule under Dodd Frank to bulk up if fuel to strengthen capital requirements so banks don't collapse and end up with a public a government bailout. All eight of them were opposed to them. Lobbyists never give up. I remember, right after the bill had Dodd Frank passed, a bank lobbyist, whether a prominent bank lobbyist, said now it's halftime. In other words, we're going to keep fighting. And they have. They fought for ten years, actually more
than ten years now. They fought the implementation of Dodd Frank. They're continuing to fight it. There's something we're working on now, an executive compensation rule that the regulators had to pass. The Trump regulators simply didn't move on it at all. We're now trying to get this to happen. The bank lobbyists are fighting there. Somebody said to me the other day, when you go to the grocery store, right, you pay more because of stock buybacks and executive compensation and bonus.
I mean every day Ohio would say more because of the corporate stock buybacks and the executive bonuses. And my job is to take on those interest groups. And Dodd Frank was one of them that passed. It's a good bill generally, we want to make sure it's implemented. We want to make sure that the banks don't weaken it.
So in Ohio we have this case right now. Your governor always s it gets credit for being a monerate, though clearly he's very much not.
You have a case right now. Brittany Watts, she had a mischaracter twenty two weeks she miscarried in Toilet. The grand jury is still out on whether or not she's gonna be charged with this heinous corpse mangling charge. Can you talk to us about this dystopian nightmare that's happening in your state.
You could look at it every look what happens in Texas with the woman in Texas. I mean it's not really all Republicans at state House politicians that they don't believe in women's rights.
So, yeah, you know what, one thing.
I learned a long time, not a long time, I've learned really since since Row, really maybe since five years ago. I don't know that we win these big battles as progressives, as people that care about human rights. We win on abortion rights, we went on civil rights. We win on generally human rights issues. And I thought they're permanent. Well, women are always have, always have those rights, voters will
always have these rights. But doctor King's with credit Scott King said you got to fight for him each generation. So what I've learned watching all this and I felt naive and respect, is that you've got it. You've got to stay in the arena. You got to stay act, You've got to do things like you're doing Mally in shows like this and writing and speaking out because these
battles are never fully won. And I can see it in Ohio right now, we definitively overwhelmingly passed constitutional abortion rights. Politicians aren't going to buy it. I mean, these aren't decisions for politicians to make, the voters made them. That's what keeps me going, knowing that these victories are never permanent. You've got to keep making sure that you're defending people's rights.
You don't win them forever. You win them, and you keep fighting because the other side, always with more money, always with more media outlets like Fox and right wing talk radio, will always assault at the edges or straight on on the rights that we have gained for Americans.
It's really true. Do you think though, that there is, like.
On the local level in Ohio, people who are pushing back.
Oh?
Yeah, Like I mean, do you think that this is created as sort of backlash?
Oh?
I think the more they push it, the backlash already showed itself in twenty eighteen when I won by seven points, won only I won sixteen out eighty eight counties. Abortion rights won in those sixteen and nine others because more and more suburban women, but small town women too, and men are realizing we deserve these rights and we're not
going to give up these rights. And when when they've voted overwhelmingly, and Ohio voters voted and I said fifty six forty four, you know I'm no pundit, but I also know that when you make that decision, that that emphatic decision taking those rights away is just morally wrong and anti small deed democratic. The backlash was already against the six week abortion ban in Columbus, and that was what the vote showed. The back life is even greater now.
Islands want someone on their side, and that's what I want to be is continue to fight for people and be on their side of me. So I said, it's it's not left to right in politics so much as it's who's on their side. And that's why I went a state that some people say Democrats can't win, or some people say it's concerned good matters.
You're concerned liberally.
You want somebody to fight for you, and you want somebody to stay to be on your side. That's the secret to governing and the secret to politics generally.
Do you think that voters the reason that they're willing to cross the ticket for you, or voters but ticket, is because they know you or because I mean, what do you think that sort of secret sauce is?
I don't think it's secret. I spent my life fighting for the dignity of work, taking on the drug companies, taking on the oil companies, taking on the corporations that jam the country and jam Congress on NAFTA and Most Favored Nation status for China, and all the things they did that destroyed, undermined, or even destroyed some communities in Ohio and some neighborhoods where people lost decent, middle class,
solid working class union jobs and people. That's why people recognize them on their side and standing up, I wear a pen on my lapel Molley. That's a depiction of canary and a birdcage the mine workers one hundred and twenty years going to take the canary down the mine. They had no government, they had no union in those days strong enough or a government that cared enough to protect them. And I wear that lapel still in my suit because it reminds me about the dignity of work.
It reminds me whom we're fighting for and what we're fighting against.
Yeah, it's so important.
Do you think that your message of economic populism? Can Democrats run with that more? And if so, how, I'm not a planet. I'll tell other people what to do.
But many in Ohio seem to think the Democratic Party unfortunately is a bicoastal elite and we're not. But we've got to talk more about workers and see things through the eyes of workers more than we do it. I just say people think hard work should pay off. If you love this country, you fight for the people who make it work. That's been always my focus. I'll always
be pro choice. I've been supportive marriage equality for twenty five years, so I stood up to the gun lobby, and I understand those are economic issues too for the American public. I recognize that young people, it's the most pro union generation in my lifetime. Young people, and they want a chance, whether they work at Starbucks, whether they work they go through a union apprenticeship program and become a bricklayer, or whether they go to college and want
to fight for the causes they believe in it. It's all about giving kids an opportunity and in joining a union at whatever age you are.
Since you're in Ohio and you're seeing a lot on the.
Ground, do you think that with the death of local news, which is something your wife is involved in as well, who's a journalist, are you seeing a certain like a disinformation gap. Are you seeing like on the ground people believing stuff that's not true.
I mean, are you seeing the results.
Of that or no, yeah, you do. But I think in Ohio perhaps it's a unique case. The Speaker of the House, the chairman of the state Republican Party, and now the already have been sentenced to prison twenty years and five years, respectively. We're taking a sixty one million dollar bride. The governor's head of the Public Utilities Commission was just indicted on similar charges. We think more and we hear more people. I'm not a lawyer, I don't know more be indicted, but the local news. There's just
not enough reporters at the State House anymore. I mean, I think they're working hard, they're aggressive, but there's only so much on their plate, and we are larger number of reporters that make a huge difference there. So you see politicians getting away with far too much because there's not the aggressive press core because they're so outnumbered than
there used to be. And I guess I close with that thinking that I'm yearning for those days when the press really did have real investigative powers and authority and enough money to do it right.
Thank you, Thank you, Senator, Thanks Ollie.
Thank you fun interview, good questions.
Thanks.
Jim Messina is the former White House Deputy Chief of Staff and campaign manager for President Barack Obama.
Welcome to Fast Politics.
Jim, Thanks for having me.
Very exciting, very very exciting.
So I have a cousin who calls me and he says, if we could just get Joe Biden to drop out, then just talk sense to that cousin.
That cousin, my family, all my friends. Yeah, Molly, I'm doing a lot of calming the bed wetters these days. And look, my only superpower is like I love data, and I look at the data and I just think a couple things for your cousin and my mama. The first is, let's not get out of hand that Joe Biden getting out of this race would fix things, because a couple reminders here. I mean, he beat Donald Trump once.
In my opinion, the democratic opinion, Donald Trump is the biggest threat to democracy of our lifetime, and so we had to do whatever we can to make sure he doesn't get elected. And I think the best way to do that is to nominate Joe Biden. It's not because I'm from Biden crazy, It's because a couple of things. One, we've already had this selection. And it's interesting, in the history of presidential elections and US Senate elections, no one who's been beaten once came back and beat the same
candidate the second time. The other thing is, okay, let's say Joe Biden gets out tomorrow, Mollie. I've met with over twenty five people who would announce the next day they're running for president of the United States, and we don't know who's going to become the nominee, and we certainly don't know if that person is battle tested and ready to be the Democratic nominee for president. Let me
give you some examples. I mean, the entire Republican Party thought that Ron DeSantis was his godsend and was going to sweep away Donald Trump and be this amazing candidate. He has turned out to be a really poor national candidate.
He still wears the lefts continued, Yes.
Yeah, still wears the lefts and his wife is still a much better campaigner than he is. You know, there was no Rudy Giuliani presidency. He was way ahead the polls and turned out to be a terrible candidate. You know, the same, And there's Democrats like Gary hard too. Everyone thought it was gonna be the nominee, you know, fell apart. So I'm just not sure who would be the nominee. And it's such a condensed calendar that, you know, what if we nominate someone who can't win the general election
and Donald Trump like walks in. So you know, those are reasons why I think that we are safer with Joe Biden at the top of the ticket. Now, look, I'm not saying this is going to be a kickwalk He barely won last time. This is going to be a close election. But I think when you think about Barack Obama once said to me that every president is always a reflection of the previous president, which, if you think about it, Molly, is super interesting and probably true.
People thought that Jimmy Carter was out of touch. They nominated this kind of guy with a vision rom of Reagan. Then George Bush came after him, and people thought he was sleeping the switch on the economy. So we got this in touch Bill Clinton. People thought that at the end of his presidency he had some moral questions. We did the compassionate conservative George Bush. People thought that at the end of his presidency. He was an idiot. So they got the urbane Barack Obama, who was the opposite
of Barack Obama Donald Trump. And when you think about kind of why Joe Biden won this election four years ago, it was because he was the opposite of Donald Trump. He was calm, he was someone who could get things done, understood the process. Those things haven't really changed in the minds of the voters. So it is why people like me are comfortable that Joe Biden is our best candidate.
Yeah, I think that's right.
And I'm me and Ron DeSantis and he's still wearing the cowboy boots.
You know, it's true. And voters are so much smarter than people think they are and they can just see through that bullshit.
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really good point. And when you look at this sort of the landscape of the Democratic base, I think what's really interesting to me is that there is actually huge bench of talent.
Boy, there really is. You know, again, I met with over twenty five people, and only there's some people out there who were just really going to be great national candidates. We think now, you know, we don't know what we think. I mean, remember that we want sad Johna. We're just going to be this savior and that turned out not to be. But with you watch away. Gretchen Whitmer handled the abortion issue in Michigan and made an economic issue,
which every Democrat should do. She's got national talent. Gavin Newsom national talent, was more national talent, jab Pritzker national talent. Like you know, there's more and more of those people that you and I can talk about, Gina Romondo, Pete Buddha, Judge, Like, there's just so many people, which is really a contrast to the last time we were in this place where you know, it was sort of Obama or Hillary and it was sort of Biden or a couple of people. There's just so much talent out there.
Say more about Gretchen Womor making abortion and economic issue.
So I'm obsessed with this. So all of the Democratic consultants in the ten square free logic zone called Washington d C. Ten square miles no fucking logic. This great group called American Bridge put everyone together in January or February of twenty twenty two, and I stood up and said, look, the Supreme Court is likely going to get rid of Row it's going to be the issue. We need to
start talking about how to talk about this. Every consultant told me how dumb it was, how stupid I was, and how economics are the only issues that would matter and we just need to stay focused on that.
You know, people told me that very same.
Thing exactly, and like it was terrible advice then and it's terrible advice now. But if you look at like, you know, there's been this long debate in the Democratic Party do you do turnout or do you do persuasion to swing voters? The answer is you do both. And Gretchen Whitber was the first person who figured out how
to do both on economics and abortion. She had this stunning ad where she looks at the camera and says, you know, people think the right to choose isn't an economic issue, but deciding whether or not have a kid is the biggest economic issue you're going to have as a family, and kids are expensive. And this is why I fight so hard because it should be your choice.
These are your decisions. And it was just brilliant, and she doubled down and continued to talk about it in a way that I think is just really instructed for the rest of the Democratic Party.
Yeah, I think so too. I just today was interviewing Shared Brown, who was talking about how the economic populism is something that you know, even though Trump was lying, it really did help him huge.
Man, exactly. I mean, here's the again, back to the numbers. Started to poor your listeners with numbers, But you and I fucking love it. Joe Biden became the first president in one hundred years to win the presidency while losing the who's better on the economy question to Donald Trump? And and party did it because Trump was so fucking crazy, and party did it because of COVID. The economic issues tend to be incredibly important.
So just talk to me about what you think Biden world needs to do to win.
Here a couple things. Number one, I mean, if you think about when you run a presidential campaign, I'd run Molly ten Center races before I ran a presidential campaign, and they're just wildly different. And what you realize is in the presidential campaign there are really two groups of people you have to care the most about. The first and most important is your supporters. Why is that the most important? Because they can do three things that you
desperately need them to do. First of all, they can vote for you, obviously very crucial. Second of all, they can give you money and volunteer time insanely crucial. And third and probably the most important, they can get their friends and family to vote for you as well. They can be ambassadors. They can say, hey, Molly, this is
why I'm supporting Joe Biden, and you should too. And in the same age of political cynicism and thirty second ads, it is a proven fact that the most important thing on how voters think is what their friends and families say about politics. Those of you who listen to Molly every week and care deeply about this, like this is why you want this information. You are the most important people. So that's the first part. This is this bucket called
our own supporters. And the second bucket is swing voters. And remember that America is the most partisan country in the world. I have thirteen presidents and prime ministers around the world as my clients, and the average European, Asian or Latin American elections about a fourth to forty percent of voters could go back and forth between the major parties. In the United States, it's about eight percent eight, maybe ten percent on the best moment of voters could actually
vote for Joe Biden and Donald Trump. And so we're talking about a really small amount of people. So that is an incredibly long way of answering your question, which is what should Joe Biden's campaign. The very first thing they have to do is focus on their supporters, and
they're really doing that. You and I were on Morning Joe recently talking about that they have the law or just buy in the history of American politics on social media to young voters, African Americans, and Latinos, three areas where they have struggled a little bit, as every presidential campaign, including Barack Obama did too, because after four years, everyone's pissed about something. They need to message to those people and they're spending a lot of time right now doing that.
And then two, they have to focus on these swing voters, and the swing voters are really about two kinds of things. First is trying to say, hey, I've done the job, and they're doing that, and I think that's the kind of thing that they've done enough of and it's now time to start to do something else. And then two is the choice. The choice between him and Donald Trump. I used to say to President Obama when I would
fly to see him on Saturdays at the White House. Look, if this election is a referendum on you, you will lose, because incumbents lose referendums on them. If is a choice between you and Romney, you're going to win because you're the better choice. And so eventually they need to make this a choice. And again, back to the logic free zone of Washington, d C. Where you and I spend too much time. Right now, everyone there is wedding the beds, screaming, Oh my God, make it a choice. Make it a choice.
And the question on the table is when they do that. And you know, probably the week before Christmas is not a banner fucking time to do that. And probably when they'll do that is post Iowa and definitely post March third, which is Super Tuesday, where Donald Trump will have enough delegates to be officially the nominee. I would expect coming out of the new year, you will see the campaign do that full time. And they've started to hint they're going to do that. They've had President Biden do it
a couple times in the past two weeks. I saw you talking about that as well. He's starting to talk about Trump in a way he hadn't for a while. It's about time to do this.
Do you think that one of the problems that Democrats have, and not just Democrats, but like more traditional normal politicians who are not completely insane, is that they don't fill up the vacuum like one of the things Trump has done really well, and this is true with some of the other MAGA politicians. There are younger Democrats who have done this too, in a different way, not insane the way the Republicans have. But what Trump did was he filled the vacuum with a narrative and his people got
a narrative and he got it out there quickly. And like what you see with his legal cases, this is a man who is he is doing these legal cases in the court of public opinion for his people. We're looking at Hunter Biden yesterday doing that very same thing, which I actually think is very smart. But do you think it's smart. It's really a new way for Democrats to engage with voters.
I mean, in this case, it's not voters. Whatever it is. With the mainstream media.
People say all the time, like why do people like Donald Trump, like this is crazy, Like, you know, I can't figure this out. My mom like all the time says to me, just I don't have any friends who like him. To explain to me why people like this lying asshole. And Donald Trump has two superpowers Molly that I think people forget. First of all, he's the best
counterpuncher in modern American political history. And you see this by the famous you know, the way he branded Marco Ruveo with the little hands, and you know, he has the sanctimonious and like those things are just brilliant. But there's lots of people who could do that. I think he's better at it than anyone else. But he's you know,
it's not what he's really good at. What he's insanely good at the best I've ever seen the best, certainly since Reagan is controlling the narrative to your point, he understands. There was this amazing article that scared the hell out of me yesterday talking about how he is obsessed with memes on social media and he is driving by himself the memes and deciding what the memes are. And then he emails a bunch of the big social media kind of people who have huge followers and says, you know,
these are the memes we need to push. That is what the Democrats aren't doing. It is just incredibly amazing because like we invented. You could argue Barack Obama's campaign did the first one, but Democrats invented social media, and we invented running presidential campaigns on it. And it seems like we've just forgot. And meanwhile, Donald Trump is doing this. And so you've heard me ramble about this before, but I'm obsessed with TikTok. I'm obsessed with TikTok because it's
awesome and I have so much fun on it. And I'm also obsessed because one hundred and seventy five million Americans are on it, and all of our targets are on it, including young, brown, black, and women voters. And the amount of share for Donald Trump. Neither Trump or Biden is on the platform, but the amount of share
of voice Trump is just decimating Biden on it. And it's because he has all these fervent supporters who are to your point, filling the funnel, who are creating content, who are doing things, and it is one of the two things that keeps me up at night. About the twenty twenty four presidential election.
Yeah, there's a lack of transparency with all of these algorithms, but with the social media platform that is owned by the Chinese government, we're content Like Osama bin Laden's letter to America trend, why isn't there more? I mean Republicans hate it, Democrats hate it, Like, why can't they just ban it?
Well, a couple of things. We have this pesky First Amendment that you know, when I was in the White House, I tried to ban Huawei, the Chinese telecom saying the lawyers finally came down and patted me on my little head and said, you know, it's uncons social to ban a single company. Second, I think there's been some confusion on it. I mean, they're not owned by the Chinese government. Seventy five percent of their investor base is owned by US venture capital firms, Like you're not going to get
rid of so we need to engage on them. And to your earlier point, some young people, some young elected officials like this guy Jeff Jackson, who's Member of Congress, has two million followers because he just uses it every day. Right, there's this democratic group called Voters for change.
Yeah, gen Z voters for change, I know them, gen.
Z, thank you. Yeah, they're unbelievably good on TikTok and you know, so we just need to create content for it since it's not going to go away, and the right understands that and the left doesn't seem to.
That's not good in this sort of moment. Do you think there should be sort of more by now they're more gamma out, there are more surrogates. I mean, what do you think this sort of tax should be? I mean, should there be more rallies? How would you be running US re elect?
What would you do come next year? I think the answer is more and more and more, right, like, we need more of everything. And I think in the off year, to go back to my earlier point, I understood the strategy. It was kind of the Obama twenty twelve strategy, which is, We're going to spend twenty eleven talking to our base, getting our poops in groups, building our campaign stuff, and then go out and you know, Barco people will always
forget this. But Obama did one rally in twenty eleven to announce his candidacy and a and then didn't do another one until twenty twelve. We just raised money for a year. But I think there are a couple things that they need to unleash pretty quickly. The first is the vice president. You know, everyone's freaking out about African American youth and Latino turnout. She's amazingly good at talking to those folks. Another thing is, you know, you and I talked about this on one of the shows we
run together. You know, the day after Florida did what they did on abortion, she flew there and had a fight with d Santis De Santis exactly. Unleash her on that center of the college campuses. She's doing some of that stuff. We just don't see it because we're only you know, sadly for America. There's only five states that matter in this election. And so if you live in the other forty five states, which I've bet a huge majority of your listeners.
Do and we do too, yes, boy, exactly right.
So that's one they need to unleash her. And then two people forget who the most popular elected official in America is, and it is Michelle Obama. And so it's time for missus Oba. I'm going to come off the bench too. In prison a Whama as well, he's already done stuff. But you know, the surrogate stuff really matters. I mean I used and abused Bill Clinton in twenty twelve, like he was my own personal.
I feel like you're gonna get in trouble for this. You have a minder on it. No, anyway, go ahead, yes.
And Bill Clinton would say that too, like everywhere, hilarious. Yeah, Like I sent him everywhere because he was the explainer in chief and he was explained to the American voters why what Barack Obama was doing on the economy worked and it was really important.
He also read as an old white guy. I think we cannot.
Underestimate the old white guy aesthetic when it comes to politics.
I'm sorry, continue, no, no, no, it's it's it's very true.
You sent Bill Clinton out there, so you think that that's really Michelle Obama needs to be out there.
Yeah, and Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, I do think, you know, we need white sarrogance. And the other thing is like, who are the swing voters really out there? And they are women in these five states that really matter, right, and who are the people that talk to them? Like, you know, I just saw some research that you know that these undecided women who voted for Donald Trump and Barack Obama and Joe Biden. Right, See, this is a small group of people in these five states that really matter.
Guess who they want to hear from? Molly Taylor Swift.
That's right, I mean, don't we all?
Yes?
Yesterday was her birthday. By the way, shout.
Out all right, I'm going to let you go. I really appreciate you. I hope you'll come back.
Absolutely, Thanks, take care the moment.
Jesse Cannon, my junk Fast. You know, it's some of my favorite things about the Trump era of Republicans always saying the quiet part out loud, what are you seeing here? Always? Always, always Republican.
Troy Nows when asked what he hoped to see from an impeachment inquiry, which Republicans voted for on Wednesday, he said, Trump twenty twenty four, baby, Because this has never been about impeaching Biden. This has always been about giving Trump a little bit of cover and helping his reelection. And for that, for saying the quiet part out loud, that is our moment of fuckery. That's it for this episode
of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.