Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, where we discussed the top political headlines with some of today's best minds. And Americans have spent twenty four billion dollars extra in gas since Trump started his war in Iran. We have such a great jow for you today. The host of the Latino Vote podcast, Mike Madrid, stops by to talk about Republicans being completely out of options before
the midterms. Then we'll talk to civil rights advocate and law professor Gimberley Crenshaw about her new memoir, Backtalker in American Memoir. But first of the news, Smiley.
The budget for the ballroom, the big beautiful ballroom, four hundred million dollars. But since we have the bootlicker Congress that loves to say yes, sir, may I have more, they want to give them a billion dollars because they don't give a fuck about being conservative or saving our tax dollars.
Yeah, this is.
An amazing story in the fact that it is just shows that these people don't believe in anything. So Republicans got Trump into office and they said that they were going to do what cut the deficit, They were going to stop waste fraud and abuse. And you know who was the face of that, the richest man in the world, Elon Musk. Well, fast forward. They're not so interested in waste, fraud, and abuse anymore, except if they're doing the waste, the fraud,
and the abuse. And here we are. Republicans demand one billion dollars for Trump's ballroom. Now you'll remember that I was told that taxpayers were not going to pay anything for this ballroom, and instead of that, we're paying a billion dollars. So I don't know how that works, but now we are paying a billion dollars in taxpayer money. And it is in this reconciliation package. It is for security and adjustments and upgrades. That's the waste, fraud, and
abuse right there, related to the ballroom's construction. An additional thirty billion for Ice. You'll remember ICE as having already billions and billions of dollars which they used to murder American citizens and jail children. Three point five billion for customs and border patrol. I wonder how much of that is for Christy Nome horseback riding videos. Oh, actually she's been fired, so that money has already been spent. This
is Chuck Grassley. Remember Chuck Grassley, the pretend normal Republican who is ten thousand years old. Well, this is Chuck Grassley. This is the Senate Judiciary Committee, and they're taking action to provide for federal law enforcement and safer streets to the American families, because that's what this is really about. Safer streets for the American family is a billion dollars.
Hold On, he may be concerned about safer streets. He's tweeted numerous times about hitting deer on the streets with his car.
Listen, he is not a good driver. He is a very good vacuumer. If you go on, if you are on X, which we do not recommend by any stretch of the imagination giving money to Elon Mush, but if you are on there, you will see that Charles Grassley, who is nine thousand years old, has a vacuum. It has a name, and we're all going to die.
But we should talk a little bit more about this because this spending bill really is just a big pretend that the assassination attempt at the White House correspondence dinner is this huge threat that they need. And now they also have to give Ice more money because an American citizen was angry at Trump.
Yeah.
By the way, the whole premise of this insanity is that the White House Correspondent dinner would take place in the White House. The White House Correspondence Association is not part of the federal government, so that party was never going to take place in the White House.
So there's that.
But beyond that, and I think that this is an important point here. This is ridiculous, right, like Donald Trump should not have leveled the East twin point one second point, this should be put together with in the purview of the federal government and not in Donald Trump's fever dream. Okay, this is not about Donald Trump, right, This is about the White House, which belongs to us, the taxpayers, and
not Donald Trump. But also more than that, what is happening here is that they are trying to approve bazillions of I mean literally billions of our taxpayer dollars to do whatever the fuck they want. And again, in this there's money for ICE, CBP and DHS, and it's got an enormous amount of flexibility with less accountability and less oversight than typical annual appropriations for DHS funding. That means that it is giving money that is gonna have even
less oversight. And this is an administration that is very, very focused on not having oversight. So this is just an insane, insane way to be. It is like, absolutely not the way that any of this should work, and none of this. No Democrat should vote for this. But John Fetterman, who is not a Democrat and probably going to switch part.
John Fetterman, who's running as my brand is more important than my constituents.
Yeah, John Fetterman, who is running on his one term and then never again exactly.
But branding is important. So anyway, we need to shift gears and talk about the Supreme Court and this abortion ruling on meph pristone.
What are you seeing here?
This is an incredible unforced error for Republicans. And here's what happened. The Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals had a decision on Friday which said basically, no more metha pristone. That's a real problem for Republicans because you know, two thirds of all abortions are medication abortions, and they use these drugs. These drugs also have other uses for you from contractions, et cetera. But the point is the Fifth Circuit was like new, we're done, no more. Now here's
the problem. So the Supreme Court ruled Justice Alito, you may know him as being a partisan hack. He appealed this day and said, now they can sell it again. But here's the problem. In eight days, they're going to go on They're basically going to go on the shadow dock and decide what's going to happen with this. So either they will pull this drug from the market, thus setting a precedent that judiciaries that have been politicized can pull drugs from the market because they don't like what
they do. And it will mean no more medication abortions, or it will mean more restrictions. And that will happen six months before the midterms. And you'll remember abortion pretty popular. People don't like taking it away, even Republicans. A lot of Republicans are pro choice. So this will be a real fucking problem for Republicans. And remember this is a very partisan court. So it's six'. Three this is the
court that Overturned roe. V. WADE i can see a real world where they say like no more metha pristo and like that's, It we're. Done and if they do, that then that's a huge becomes a huge issue for the. Midterms another, thing, though is if they don't do, that then it also becomes a huge issue for the midterms because then the anti choice vote is, furious they're, engaged and they start turning On, trump and they're already very
mad about. This and in, fact you have this woman From Pro Life, America marjorie dan And, felzer who said that it is shameful that The trump administrations in action has forced pro life states to take the battle to the federal. Courts so you can see already attention here AND i could see. THIS i, mean there are real ideologues on this court who would be delighted to pull this medicine off the. Market AND i could see that.
Happening SO i think it'll be very. INTERESTING i think it could be really problematic For.
Trump, YEAH i, agreed and feels like a real. Mess so we have had a real spat of sexual impropriety among congressional members this, term and it's not ending For. Republicans we have Now Representative Chuck, edwards who is in A r plus eight, district which means it's very very in, play who has numerous witnesses to him acting inappropriately with.
Staffers, yeah and this guy sounds like a.
KOOK i would never guess that from this.
PARTY i mean sexual, harassment really really really. Bad cool, though that this house is starting to really focus on getting these guys out Of. Congress so he told a young female staff or that she had written a complex chapter in my heart in a handwritten note that he sent, her which she then gave To, axios as one. Should when your boss writes a letter like, that why it.
Matters it matters because a fucking. Creeper and three sources Told axios they witnessed contact By edwards towards two female staffers in their. Twenties do you want to guess how Old Chuck edwards?
Is AM i going to have nightmares WHEN i learned this.
Knowledge edwards sixty five has been married since nineteen.
Eighty nineteen, eighty that's like two years younger than. Us we were, deil we were.
Due we're forty. Seven now we were.
Taking, well one of us is forty.
Seven he brought the staffer personal gifts while she was employed by, him including. Jewelry one, gift this is the one that really gets me, upset included a custom puzzle, that when, ASSEMBLED i swear To, god this is like the freakiest one revealed an image of After Adam, sandler along with a handwritten note inviting the staffer to attend one Of sandler's comedy shows with. Him according to a photo you By axios and three sources with knowledge of the,
gift it's unclear if the staffer attended the. SHOW i bet you a million dollars That stafford did not attend the. Show edwards also gave, gifts including a, purse to another young female staffer in her, twenties and did this second staffer as his guest to events including The White House Christmas party in twenty twenty. Four the three sources, SAID i, mean, look, MAN i like this. LINE a member buying gifts for staffers is not explicitly Against house. Rules stop being, creeps
men In, Congress stop being Creep stop all. Change they can't do.
It it's a real.
Challenge by the, way my favorite part of. This edward's office has one of the highest turnover rates In, congress with a fifty nine percent turnover and twenty twenty.
Five, wow that's almost as much As Nancy.
Mace, yeah, hey, man let's not bring this back To. Nancy, hey It's Molly john. Here my, Memoir how To Lose Your mother is out now on, paperback arriving just ahead Of Mother's. Day how To Lose Your mother has garnered a lot of praise From Good Morning, america Then Your, Time Book, Review, Vogue Vanity, fair and a lot of other. Outlets Washington. Post the book is about what it's like to be part of The sandwich, generation to take care
of your mother and your. Children AND i talk about being a mother and a daughter and the RELATIONSHIP i have with my mother and all of its. Complexities it's funny and it's, fraught and it's, sad and it's about.
Life my. Story this, story the story Of how To Lose Your, mother follows a year in which my, Mother Erica, johng is diagnosed with, dementia my husband faces a life threatening, illness and what unfolds is a really honest story about what happens when the shit hits the and everything goes. Wrong as The Washington post, said the book is filled with lines so good you won't just want to underline. Them it's a memoir that continues to, Resonate so please
pick it. Up Mike madrid is a political consultant and the host Of The Latino vote, podcast and he's the author Of The Latino. Century Mike, Madrid.
Mollie great to be with.
You diesel is six dollars a, gallon, right six dollars a. Gallon Donald trump as unpopular as he has ever, been underwater on everything from immigration to, crime to cost of living to. Inflation why Did republicans not see this?
COMING i think the insuller bubble within which they LIVED i think has burst and they don't know what reality actually looks like. Anymore but, look we're a that like Post GEORGE. W bush in your seven, phase when like you could blame the, weather bad weather On George bush and one's, like, yeah of course THAT sob did. THIS i, mean that's where we're. At it's gonna keep getting. Worse by the. Way he's positive on no. Issue there's not a single thing that he's touching that is working for.
HIM i don't know what their message is going to be going into the.
Midterms the thing, is we still have the, summer so It's, may and we're coming up on this gas price. Situation, Right gas is really Expensive americans hate paying for. Gas they really. Do like that is the one. Thing it's a nonpartisan. Issue the moment gas gets even a tiny bit more, expensive people get. Apoplectic it's like we feel we are entitled to cheap. GAS i always.
Thought it would be a million people dying of in the, pandemic but, no it's five dollars gallon. Gas it's the.
Gas and it's like anti democratic. Stuff, nah it's the. Gas it's the. Gas, yeah can you explain to. Us you do a lot of polling follow The latino vote really. Carefully that is a vote that is sort of the new swing. Voters talk us through.
It that's kind of the new soccer.
Mom.
Right, yeah but, YEAH i think what the difference is like with soccer, moms there was an attempt to kind of appeal to what they were clearly telling the. Pollsters latinos are a little bit different because both parties are really struggling to kind of understand, them because both parties, Believe, okay this is a minority, voter let's talk to them the way we've always talked to other minority, voters and
that doesn't seem to be. Working and then there's also this kind of feeling Like republicans are just, like, well let's just pretend like they're like everybody, else which of course doesn't work because they're not like everybody. Else and so you end up in this scenario where both parties don't really understand, it And latinos are the least racially polarized and the most likely to be independent. Voters they're the least likely to be registered with a party of
any major ethnic. Group and it's growing so, Fast, molly that we're witnessing as. Dealignment they're moving away from both parties and they're banishing whichever part is in. Power so, yes it's increasingly going to be this swing voter that is not voting for a, party it's really voting against a.
Party so this gets us back to this idea that they. Dropped The republicans dropped the ball because we are seeing people vote, again, Right we're seeing this anti incumbent. Hostility so if you were A, republican if you Were Donald trump and you had been watching what happened With Joe biden for four, years you had been running on this idea That Joe biden was old And Donald trump was, young a completely insane statement because they're both very close in.
Age wouldn't you have been a little bit prepared for the idea that the anti incumbent sentiment might come and bite you when you were the. Incumbent.
YEAH i don't Think Donald trump lives in that, reality. RIGHT i, mean like If Donald trump had just gone golfing At mar Al lago instead of Like Liberation day and tariffs and wars in The Middle east and Like epstein, files all he had to do is going golf and he could be built is arct The trump and you, know putting his name all over whatever. Currencycy he would be sitting in the mid high fifties right now in support.
Levels but he. Didn't he can't help. Himself and The, republicans of, course fealty has become the, driving animating characteristic of the, party so they're going to go walk step with. It but what, Happened molly was after The epstein, stuff you start to see this, break and this break starts to happen with the, influencers the right, wing you, know. Influencers it's the fight Between tucker And megan And candae And Mark levine And. Shapiro AND i hate myself for
knowing who all these people. Are it's not even. Ideological it's like this high school of middle school spat and but that's the that's the animating politics of The Republican. Party and so without, that what happens now is you're Seeing Donald trump's base level support. Level he's at sixty
eight percent approval Amongst. Republicans, molly in ten years of watching this every, morning waking up having my, coffee look looking at this, number trying to figure out to break it below eighty, eight he's now twenty points below anywhere he's ever been, before ever With republicans.
And republican leaners. Too right there are the Indie. Republicans explain that to, us because that is the that's a group that he cannot win.
Without that's even more. DAMAGE i, mean it's all. Damaging but let's talk about it independent for just a. Second we know that a lot of people will Say i'm not Either republican Or, democrat but we also know that, demographically for, example an, older white homeowning male who's Saying i'm independent is going to Vote republican ninety percent of the, time right the same way a Young hispanic woman In Santa Monica. California maybe, independent but she's gonna vote for
A democrat ninety percent of the. Time so these are leaners, demographically we know how they're going to. Break but these, leaners These republican, leaners are at a historic. Low and WHEN i say, historic it's worse Than GEORGE. W bush In. Iraq it's worse Than Jimmy carter, stagflation it's worse Than nixon Water. Gates, yeah we've never seen numbers this. Bad and so that that historic break with just. Independence even if he were holding The republican, base which is, not
he would be in, deep deep. Trouble but he's losing Core Republican maga constituency. Now and that's why It's Katie BARADOR i want.
To talk about why he's losing him because so The epstein file was The Epstein files fiasco was this first, break and you Saw Pam bondi is no longer employed basically because of. That right she did The. Binders it got everybody in That maga world very. Excited there was nothing in, there and then she went into a sort of. Tailspin she did this hearing where she, said why won't you thank Mister trump for The dow at fifty, thousand which was like a little Too North korean propaganda even for trump.
Discuss you're exactly. Right the break point is The Epstein, files because one of the animating characteristics again of Trump ism is his visceral hate For, democrats so much so that they paint them as. Pedophile there's nothing worse you can be than somebody who abuses, children, right, Yes and it's all in this conspiracy about The Epstein, files and like everything In trump rolled its, projection and so that becomes the focal point of this reelection and keeps the base.
Together we've got to go get the, demonic Horrible democrats who are trying to eat our children and do all these bad. Things, well once he turns on, that once
he betrays them on, that everything else becomes. Suspect and then suddenly all these bad policy, decisions whether It's venezuela for no real good, reason or whether it's monetary, policy whether it's Attacking canada or threatening to Invade, greenland and then certainly Invading iran with no, objective no, mission and no exit, strategy people realize this has all been a. Ruse like it took a lot of people to get out of the. Cult but once you're out of the,
cult you're not going. Back and that's where he's. At that's what the problem. Is and that's why the likelihood of this getting far worse is much greater than it getting better for.
Him, Right and that's so let's talk through. That so you had these. Influencers those influencers are not they are Not Walter. Cronkite they are sticking their finger up and being, like my people are, mad and that's why they're turning On, trump, Right.
Yeah they're gonna you can't defend the indefensible. Anymore and that's the. Problem and how what you saw was The Candice owens and The Tucker carlson sees the opportunity to be, Like, okay the gazelle is wounded on THE serengeti attack. Him, now NOW i go after, him and they become the.
Predator right at, first they were, there you, know they were getting followers by being part of the cheerleading crowd and the you, know rallying it on once he's, wounded and they you, KNOW i guess hat tip to them for understanding having a finger on the pulse of where this was. Going and realizing he's, done like he's mortally. Wounded this is a bridge too. Far they turn on him And carlson, like you're gonna start seeing his numbers
moving up in this next presidential discussion very. Shortly it's not as high AS i would expect it to be right, now but as anti Trump ism sets, in now that he is the, establishment he is the, swamp he is the. Liar, yeah betrayal is a deep. Emotion it's why they hated Us Lincoln project guys so. Much we were as bad as they much as they Hate. Democrats it was the betrayers the, terms and that's what's going to drive a,
deep deep passionate Anti trump. Sentiment and you're gonna have the Ten, cruises you, know The Marco rubios and The jadevan's apologists trying to hold it, together and the old Feeble man you, know still doing his you, know crazy, talks trying to gin back support. Up it's not coming back like if they've turned it across The. Rubicon so let's.
Talk LET i.
Want to do another minute with These trump influencers because you have to explain to us what happened With Ben, Shapiro BECAUSE i Think Ben shapiro for these people is a real cautionary.
Tale so Remember Ben shapiro literally catapults during the rise Of trump and twenty fifteen as an Anti trump. Voice he's the one who is saying this is not, conservatism this is, bad this is going to go. Wrong he, then you, know is one of the first people to turn And Jenny fleck and, Say, OKAY i get. IT i, LOST i was. WRONG i got the feel of the
of The Republican party wrong and becomes This trump. Acolyte and there's the beneficiary of that that, becomes you, know part of this, fissure which is not really as much ideological as a as A i believe it's a network. Disagreement WHAT i mean by that is the following sticks With Ben shapiro until somebody else's network starts to get, bigger and in this case It's Tucker. Carlson this fight Between Tucker carlson And Ben shapiro presumably On, israel although
it's really about a bigger. Worldview it's starts With, israel but now it's going to become about monetary policy and About america first and protectionism and nativism and Who's american and who's not, Right and so it starts as this you Know, israel you Know gaza, story but it's really a, deep deep demarcation line where we used to have moderates versus.
Conservatives it's now about two different worldviews of our engagement in foreign alliances and who's pulling the, strings as they, say and the Protectionist america first, isolationists which Is tucker, saying you were, You, maga you were never, Wrong we never should have got involved in. This you were betrayed By. Trump you are betrayed By Ben. Shapiro they suckered us into, This so you don't have anything to apologize. For there to.
Blame and that's WHAT i think is so appealing about What tucker is doing and Why Ben shapiro's spiraling and collapsing right.
NOW i also, THINK i, Mean i'm no fan Of Ben, shapiro but clearly Anti semitism is, huge.
Huge broadly by the, Way, yeah we're in a moment where there's there's danger signs and red alarms going off and, saying you, know Anti semitism is a unique hatred because it's the sign of coming hatreds beyond, that M, m it's always the, first but it opens the door to everything. Else and that's what that moment has. Been and it's across both.
Parties, yeah though it's much worse on the, RIGHT i mean for, sure for, Sure, YEAH i MEAN i definitely THINK i see certainly see shades of it on the. Left book not the. Same, no just watch. Out yes that's right. NOW i wonder if we could talk, About uh so we're talking about like How trump found himself in this moment where he was no longer controlling the. Narrative AND i think it started With. Epstein then it
was this wild foreign war. Adventures AND i remember being on television the day before The venezuela thing and, saying, Well trump will never go To venezuela because he hasn't tried to sell it at all to The american. People and you, know Even republicans try to sell a war before doing. It AND i was completely. Wrong SO i just want you to explain what you think happened there and then how it got us To. IRAN i think properly.
Understood It's Donald trump think he had already sold. It he thinks that's what the campaign. Was hegsith becomes A secretary of, war Not secretary Of, Defense like we're going on the. Offense and he believed that the election was a mandate for, that and so in his mind he had sold this you, know, muscular you know foreign, policy That america is going to Be america. Again we're going to go start taking stuff as a way of defending
our currency and taking on The. Chinese he starts flexing Against. Greenland, right let's start. Negotiating we'll buy. It if, not we'll take. It he Slaps canada in the. Face he starts you, know, dropping you, know signs Into mexico with the, cartels like this is all, Ours it's all. Ours it's just a matter of. Sequencing, look he's still going to Take, cuba you, know AND i Think taiwan becomes just a chess, Piece, like are we going to really Defend taiwan now with
with as extended as we. Are, no if she Wants, taiwan he'll take it in a. Meccicas we're not gonna do a thing about.
It so let's talk first about what's happening With, iran because today there was this press conference heg. Seth you, know, basically there are a lot of people who think that the ceasefire is, over and that they are really just doing like a military action under the guise of not and that we're sort of we're in this moment Where trump is sort of saying something isn't, happening that is really.
Happening that was the net net of the press CONFERENCE i saw this, morning and SO i wonder what you think, That, like how is that? Tenable and also the big thing that is Making Donald trump the most unpopular more than anything is the gas.
Prices so first of, all this is not tenable under any. Scenario the only possible way he gets out of this he can't even like wake up to the and go, okay let's pull out in declare. Victory his base isn't gonna believe that even, now because of The epstein, stuff because of getting into this, war because they feel. Betrayed the only possible WAY i see it is there's got to be a bigger. Distraction there's got to be another war he's got to move to to, Say, okay, well declare.
Victory we took care of. This now we've got to go fight this. War No one's going to buy that. Much but that's kind Of trump's world of. VIEW i think that's the only possible escape patch he can. Pull the likelihood of this going all the way to the end of The trump, PRESIDENCY i think is very very. High and as you just correctly pointed, out we are just now seeing the spiking gas prices in a meaning
way just. Now like the last tankers have come Into Long beach In california with two hundred thousand barrels of, oil that's. It when it's, done the prices are gonna. Spike even if we opened the straits, tomorrow there's going to be dramatic. Spikes so you could see nine dollars ten dollars a gallon gas In. California that's like six
dollars six fifty seven in other parts of the. Country and as you correctly pointed, out like gas prices, are that's our religion In, america like, that don't mess with.
That AND i think like an important caveat is that, diesel for whatever, reason is even more. Expensive and diesel is the airplane. Fuel so when you have what happened with With Spirit, airlines that doesn't exist in a vacuum that comes directly from these diesel.
Prices boeing was projecting a four billion dollar profit that they've had to come back from revised and say it's. Gone four billion dollars is gone with current current diesel, prices and it's not going. Down so we're hitting the point where the economy is going to start. Choking we're choking the economy right. Now and it's all self. Owned none of this had to, happen not one bit of, it and The american people know. It.
Yeah it's interesting because it's LIKE i, have you, KNOW i have this theory that want That trump is suffering from a lot of the problems of the. Seventies i'm not going to say who was president, then because everybody of my let all my listeners love that, person including. Me, yeah but he. Was he ran a foul of things that were not his, fault, right Don trump is the exact. Opposite he's running a foul of things that are actually his.
Fault.
Right, Yeah that's Why i'm saying if he had just gone golfing at Mar A lago and drooled on himself a little, bit and then we'd, laugh and you, know we'd still be frightened by who he. Is but all of this is all his own. Fault this is a self owned in soccer parlor self goal like you scored on,
Yourself like this is. Everything everything he's, done the overreach on the immigration, stuff the ice, raids the, crackdowns the masque, porte the mass jack booted, thugs the tariff policy On Liberation, day the offending The, canadians the you, know the the slapping the face OF, nato the invasions Of, venezuela like the war In, iran The epstein, file literally all of, It all of, It molly is all a function of
his owning. Competence and when you realize it's not just like a bad string of bad, decisions it's just he's not capable mentally of managing this. Anymore and he's surrounded himself not with talented. People say what you will About Joe, biden the people around him knew how to run the damn.
Government that means, yes, YES i mean, right but, yes but there was but it was all And Tulci gabbard AND. R.
F K junior, like, yes these were these were maybe the, mistakes, absolutely but.
Yeah but you can't compare that you had real government people who knew how to. Government, yeah. PRECISELY i wonder, now would you if you were Down trump and you were woke up and Were Donald, trump what would what would the first thing you would?
Do. Babic so here's the real, conundrum and it's a conundrum not just for, him but it's for everybody. Else is you have to literally make one hundred and eighty degree. Pivot, yeah you have to SAY i made a, mistake which is not In trump's. Vernacular he's literally not capable of. It he'd rather lie about it and make that. Pivot but he's still not doing. That maybe he. Does but even if he, does LIKE i, said that, believability that
that blind trust after The epstein files lies is. GONE i Mean Marjorie Taylor green left like where we're out mass he's. Gone and so the Other republicans who are, looking you, know These republican plus ten districts that are probably gonna. Lose what's the incentive anymore to defend. Him you're gonna have to start running away from. Him and
that's gonna be the next round of this by. Summer is not only are they gonna not Want trump out on the, Stump you're gonna start SAYING i. Disappear you're start hearing people disagree with, him which you have never seen in The trump. Era it is all new new territory.
And you're gonna AND i think it's important to realize is that these people are Being they're making the craven calculus That trump is so unpopular that they have to break with.
Him and that's such an important point because, Again trump has always been we can't live with, him we can't live without. Him he is now more demonstrably more reliability than an. Asset that has never been the case in The republican. Base so now that's going to change the entire dynamics of The republican. Caucus you Have Ted kruss
already flexing For. Iowa Tucker carlston is leaning into, this the debate about whether it's it's going to Be vance Or Rubio Don junior showing, up you know with a walking into the high is it going to Be Don? Junior Like trump is not going to do well when everyone else is talking about who's going to be the next. President this gets more, erratic this gets more, difficult and there's going to be more incentive to be Against trump than for. Him and we've never been in that scenario since twenty.
Sixteen if you're The Republican party at this moment and you are running Against, trump doesn't that mean that you are coming, like won't you alienate what's left OF maga by doing? That?
Yeah and that's for somebody like. Me that's the beauty of the. Moment we've been waiting for this for ten. Years we all knew this was. Coming Lindsey graham knew this was. Coming Marco rubio knew this was. Coming they were saying. It this is the reckoning you are choosing now Between it's a damned if you, do damned if you. Don't you always chosen to be with him rather than against. Him you are going to see more and More republicans
making the opposite. Choice that's What tucker's, Doing that's What Megan kelly's, Doing that's What Candice owen's. Doing that's what all these people are.
Doing if you're a billionaire Like Jeff bezos and you've been like basically trying to obey in advance With The apprentice and you, know wanting to do The Don Junior apprentice And, milania when do you make the calculus that you were always against.
This you'll make the calculus as late as, possible and when there's new, leadership because they've got enough money to buy their way back in regardless of his, there they don't.
Care Mike madrid really, smart so, interesting a lot of questions THAT i felt like you really answered for. Me thank.
You, thanks great to be with you.
Always Kimberly crenshaw is a civil rights lawyer and the author of Back, talker An american. Memoir, Welcome, Welcome. Kimberly you're like the iconic law, professor law, scholar legal, genius and now you're here with a. Memoir, Hi, Hi, hi thanks for having me. On i'm so. EXCITED i wrote a memoir, too SO i know what it's like to come from one lane and not try but like you're shifting into another. LANE i think of you as like one of the fundamental legal scholars who created an idea
which has a lot of salience in any which. Way and now here you are doing a, memoir which is so it's like the preface and the, PostScript and so talk us through how different that.
Is, well you, know a.
Legal, scotl especially among, academics is framed as somebody who just analyzes legal, principles applies the special magic legal, analysis you, know to come to some kind of legal. Conclusion, WELL i never really bought into. That that's partly why the entire field That i've been part of exists to sort of challenge that. Idea but even when you challenge the, idea you usually do so by moving around ideas and. Principles you don't often, say, well WHEN i was five years,
OLD i really wanted to Be Thorne. Rosa it is very, much you, know a different, register yet it is deeply connected to critical or e, sia to, intersectionality because those ideas didn't simply come from my sitting in an office
somewhere in a light bulb you, know. Flashes it's instead trying to make sense of my life over, time being born in the sixties in the middle of The civil rights, movement coming of age in the seventies in the middle of The women's, movement and really trying to trace the kind of experiences THAT i had that always raised a, question what about? This how come we're not talking about?
That so just bringing all those questions together over time is what led me to ask some of the questions of the law that led to, intersectionality that led to critical a.
Theory so it's a.
Response to the way that these ideas have traveled into, culture but it's a response that locates it in the experience of lived lives here in this country in the twentieth twenty first, century not something that came From europe or not something that's, fantastical but something that's material and.
Real it's funny BECAUSE i was going to ask, you AND i want to ask you about the insane ruling from This Supreme court to just strike down the voting right To, act Which i'm sure you could have told me a long time was, coming especially because you worked on The Anita hill. HEARINGS i.
DID i did so WHEN i came into law, teaching there were so few black women that most of, us if we didn't know each other, personally we knew of each.
Other so when it WAS i, mean you have to go back to the.
Hearings in nineteen ninety.
One nineteen ninety, one it was very.
Contested even When Clarence thomas was nominated by the First President bush to Replace Thurgood, marshall who was a civil rights. Hero so obviously there was controversy Because Clarence thomas was never seen as pro civil.
Rights Now i've never seen as someone who.
Is about trying to Continue Thirdgood marshall's. Legacy so it was controversial from the. Start and then there was a report that he had been accused of sexual harassment by someone who was.
Not trying to come.
Forward she just had shared the story with someone and it made its way to The Judiciary, committee and then she was subpoena to. Come WHEN i realized it was SOMEONE i, KNEW i reached out to her just to see if she needed support and, help and in, fact she was pulling together her legal. Team so that NIGHT i was on a plane heading To, washington D. C SO i was at a front seat at one of
the most consequential moments In american. Politics and WHAT i write about in this moment is how the failure of anti racism to anticipate a gendered reality for black women that might be different from the way black men experienced.
Racism AND i would say a similar failure in the part of some feminists to understand that although all feminists are subject to or all women are subject to some form of sexual harassmen and other people as, well the history of black people with respect to you, know stereotypes about deviant sexuality and the way in Which black people are diminished by these stereotypes made it that much more complicated for a black women to come. Forward nobody wanted
to talk about those. Complications so When Clarence thomas waltzes in and says this is nothing but a high tech, lynching millions of, people Especially black, people who were kind of sitting on the fence About Clarence, thomas went way over to the other, side and their justification for it was sexual harassment is not a black woman's. Issue that blew my mind because sexual harassment actually sort of came from black women's. Experiences they were some of the primary.
Plaintiffs so this was a history that our community didn't. Know it hadn't been told. Much so the split was easier to break the coalition against this anti civil rights. Nomination so it was traumatizing in so many. Ways it
really challenged my sense of the. We but what it did do When Clarence thomas was finally confirmed by the smallest margin in, history a colleague of mine AND i one of the only black men who came TO dc to Support, anita we both, said this is going to change the rest of our, life and it.
Did it changed our.
Lives we're, looking you, know right now to a moment where the crown jewel of the civil rights movement has been crushed by A Supreme court that's largely led By Clarence. Thomas we lost so much of the civil rights infrastructure that people, fought bled and died.
For and much of this was made.
Possible when we don't have effective coalitions and effective interface between many of the issues that we fight. Against our fight against, racism in our fight against patriarchy often aren't smoothly, interactional and that's what my work has always been trying to help.
Facilitate it's funny because you, KNOW i Had my mother was Is Eric, johng who's like very white, feminist you, know just did not have a lot of ability to see any struggle beyond her, own which you know is a real. Failing and one of the things when you talk about, this you, know she was born in nineteen forty, two and she couldn't put together that what she was trying to do was orders of magnitude harder and more
complicated for black. Women but WHEN i think so much about what we know about sexual, harassment and we know. That you, know there's it's much more about power than it is about.
Sex absolutely, Right and it is also ABOUT i call it asymmetric, solidarities And i'll just correct. Way women are expected to stand strong and, firm you.
Know with the men in their.
Communities black women in, particular are often disciplined by this idea that our primary battle is around race where we, diverge you, know where black women experience something different from black. Men the idea is we can wait to deal with. That we have to deal with the primary, directive and the primary directive is racial. Advancement, well what about the fact that you, Know Clarence thomas wasn't standing in solidarity
With Anita hill in her career, advancement sexually harassed. Her so this is sort of WHAT i mean WHEN i say we're often expected to ride or die with, men and men are not expected to ride or die with. Us this is across the, board but it's particularly challenging when you are collectively fighting against. Racism but some forms of, racism they're sort of a footnote or.
Asterisk you. Know we can come back and consider that, lately.
AND i, mean we saw that in the sixties from some black men, too that the idea that black women they could be disposable to us to some, extent that their plight was not as important as the larger. Plight and you, know you see with white women right that they overlay identify with their whiteness over they're being disempowered and the marriage.
Gender is often secondary and we forget.
That like so many people were surprised about the fact that the majority of white women did not Support harris and instead Supported.
Trump kind of, like, well what are we forgetting about?
Gender that we've learned over and over again the primary identification often among all women is with, men regardless of what the men the male agenda. Is so it could be you, Know i'm going to take away your reproductive, freedom going to take away your right to work to pursue a.
Career too many women are willing to abide by that because of the larger investment that they have with their communities as defined and led and dictated by the men in their. Lives is.
Interesting it's the one thing you know that women across all races kind of have in common is primary. Orientation SO i try to talk to women and other people about the damaging dimension of that primary, affiliation and the refusal to think about what happens when all of these isms come, together but our politics do not come together to fight.
THEM i want to ask you about the sort of polite racism of the rejection Of Harris, yea because one of the things we would hear on the, trail WHICH, i being, NAIVE i thought it meant what they were, saying but NOW i realized they were being polite. Racist but polite, racist they would, say we like hars we just don't know enough about.
Her so we know about the, racist sexually assaulted stranger to the truth That trump. Is so it's more important to know his failings than it is.
To take a chance with someone who has none of those.
Things in a. RESUME i couldn't agree. More it is polite. Racism it is a way of justifying AND i think so many things were going, on you, know really across the. Board so of course all candidates have issues that make them less than. Ideal we've never had a candidate who was,
ideal so let's just put, that you, know out. There but what seems to be operative here is a reluctance to imagine a woman as the chief, executive and then on top of that a set of rhetorics that were particularly racialized that.
Made her even more of a target of.
Disdain, so, look people said horrible things About Hillary, clinton but they didn't call her a.
Slut they did not invoke sexuality With Hillary. Clinton and both of them dressed in that same, way the only available lane for women, politicians, right pan, suits, subtle casual, jewelry short.
Hair you, know they don't the professional look, Right and we understand why they felt they needed to dress that. Way that's the sexiest part of, it the massogyn, noir you, know is even Though Kamala harris dressed that, way she could not escape the pre existing stereotypes that were always available to toss at any black, woman no matter her, authority her, accomplishment her. Intelligence she was still going to be called a, slut and the media were not really going to call people to task on.
It it was, like what can you?
Do and it's funny because WHEN i interviewed her For Annie, FAIR i just went through the things she had. Done. Right she had Been Attorney, general she had been you, know she had had all of these. Jobs she had been A da she had been the govern you, know she hadn't been the, governor but she had had she been a, Senator she had all these. Jobs she had been the first black woman in many of these jobs and.
Had been successful at. Them of, course.
Of course that you reckon with right and had gotten elected from each, job you, know and it just it didn't, Matter it didn't. MATTER i want to go back to this idea Of Thurgood marshall To. Thomas there's another thought experiment here which was so upsetting to, me but now it seems like really makes sense in, history which IS rbg to. Justice.
Amy, yeah that's a, parallel that is, definitely you, know the relevant. Parallel SO i wonder when other organized women learned a lesson from organized black, people Because thomas had a lot of, support even from some traditional. GROUPS, sclc which Was Martin Luther king's, organization supported, him The nation Of,
islam you, know The Black nationalists supported. Him so there was sort of across the board support and even those organizations that opposed, him like The National Bar association or THE. Naacp it was a big.
Fight it was.
Split but When Amy coley came, ALONG i think the women's community was a bit more unified in opposition Than African. Americans SO i do wonder whether the idea, that, well having a black person is better than having no black. Person we saw that that wasn't necessarily. True so it could be that women sort of learned a lesson from hoping that there's some internal woman that was going to jump out and suddenly repudiate all the things that made her,
attractive you, know To trump in the first. Place that was never going to. Happen With Clarence, thomas it. Didn't, fortunately people seem to understand For amy Colly rant that that was. Unlikely at the end of the. Day of, course she still does her. Damage at the end of the, day her being on that court doesn't, Matter, yeah doesn't. Matter it really just helps to legitimize the anti woman agenda that's playing out.
There right right, Right and you Have thomas doing the same with the same Right so, clearly like one of the big failings of second wave feminism was the inability to imagine that being woman was different for different groups of, people, right and that you would have different, challenges and that they and those different challenges would need different. Solutions now we're in a moment Where trump has really clearly there
was a lot of progress. Coming So Donald, trump you, know became this sort of vehicle for a pushback of. Progress you don't get a backlash like this unless there's.
Progress serious forward.
Momentum, yeah so what do you think of the next? Move?
Is, oh, gosh you, know people has me all the.
Time so my standard response, is you, KNOW i can't call. IT i can't call it because we are we are living a history that we've lived before in, which you, know, like let's let's take. Reconstruction we had eight years a forward momentum towards really creating an inclusive. Democracy we had a retrenchment period that lasted seven.
Decades Jesus, christ seven.
Decades so you, know this is clearly a one to two steps forward twenty steps, back you, know kind of momentum that we've had in our. Society and the case that was just Decided wednesday is absolutely, devastating not only to The Voting Rights act, itself but to this idea that there are imperatives that came out of that movement that we still all sign on. To that that is actually what is disintegrating in front of our. Eyes and
while that disintegration is. Happening there is ambivalence on the part of progressives about how much to fight for those in. Pair it where we can still say the words that we used to, Say.
Like if you think About, mississippi, right that's a state that should have black senators or at least not white racist. SENATORS eli, right at the very. LEAST i, mean that's a, state is a, mean it's a majority block. State, yeah so what the fuck is going? On i'm, SORRY i don't mean to, curse but it's, just you, KNOW.
I think those are appropriate words for this moment to tell you the.
Truth you, know here's the shocking.
Reality mississippi has always been a minority rule. State when we look at the former slave, states many of, states and clearly some of the sub political divisions were always about how to maintain power in white hands over and against majorities or near majorities of black. People what was so brilliant about The Voting Rights act is that it anticipated that that instinct to try to maintain control would
find mechanisms and. Tactics as soon as one got struck, down they'd come up with another, one and another one and another.
One what The Voting Rights act.
Said is we're not going to outlaw or name any specific things that they can't. Do we're going to say that what you cannot do is undermine the voting power of these substantial. Populations and because of those, protections that's.
Why we had so many elected.
Officials that's why we had the ability of people In mississippi And louisiana to elect someone of their. Choice it is because of the effectiveness of The Voting Rights act that there was such a desire to get rid of. It as you AND i are talking right, now in those, states they've gotten the green light OR i like to, say you, know, yeha, boys let's go at.
It and they're going at.
It they're suspending, elections they're redrawing districts because they know that there's not a substantial pushback to the erasure of black political power and black. Presence that's what we've shown over the last two years that we're not going to
the mat to fight over these. Things my only hope is that the devastation From calais impacts so many other interests that they're finally is this fire and desire to name the problem of racism and white supremacy and, Politics White christian nationalism in our cultural, politics and there comes out of that a commitment to fight. It but that's WHY i can't call it BECAUSE i look at some of my allies and it's almost the last thing they want to talk about rather than the first.
Thing you really do see, that, like were you registering voters In? Mississippi this is a problem that should be solved by righting the wrong that is black voter, disenfranchisement, Right, like that's what, this you, know if you want to solve this, problem you solve this problem by registering those, voters and then you don't have any of these senators In. Mississippi you have the real people who live.
There, well they can't vote an election in which they have an opportunity to actually elect someone of their choice because of all the gerrymandering and. Rigging we are told that to actually address that problem is to create the. Problem so addressing racism is racism. Itself they've been able to screw us with that framework for the last ten, years and now the chicken has really come home to.
Roost thank, you thank, you thank, you thank.
You this my, leasure.
No, Moment.
Jesse Canna, By we're just talking About Nancy mason the intro this. Podcast this is actually. Interesting she's pushed so that we have newly released documents that reveal we've paid out more than three hundred thousand dollars in taxpayer funded sexual harassment subtlements involving our.
Wallmakers what are the interesting things happening right now, is even though we are in this moment of complete fuck right when it comes to our rights and The american, government there are small moves towards progress and it's. Wild so what's happened here is there are three women In congress who are complete, lunatics but who are focused on one good. Thing and they Are Nancy mays And Lauren beaupert And Appaulina, luna AND i would not trust them
with anything except. This the three of them are working together to try to expose the culture of sexism and all of this sort of terrible stuff that is going on with women and sexual. Harassment and, look it's good that they're doing, it AND i think it's. GOOD i think you have to be really suspicious of whatever this crew is doing it with the exception of, THIS i
actlutely think this is. Good So i'm really glad to see this, happening AND i think this is, good and, like there was a really good piece written about this By Annie karney and The New York. Times i'm a Big Annie karney. Fan she Covers congress really, well but she's also just it's a very nuanced thing to have members Of congress who are both for the good and also kind of. Kooky and so it's a really nuanced.
Piece it's worth, reading and it's worth digesting that this is a sort of weird step forward for us As american. Women that's it for this episode Of Fast. Politics tune In, Monday, Wednesday, thursday And saturday to hear the best minds and politics make sense of all this. Chaos if you enjoy this, podcast please send it to a friend and keep the conversation. Going thanks for. Listening