Max Rose, Zachary Petrizzo, Erin Murphy & Megan Hondl

turn the Minnesota Statehouse blue. But first we have former Congressman Max Rose. Welcome to Fast Politics, Max Rose, what's up. Very excited to have you. And one of my favorite parts of this is before you came on, I said, now you're not in Congress anymore, so you can be a normal person, basically not running, not in total normalcy. Yea. By the way, let's just talk about what the fund is happening in Congress right now, because it's like nude

Ingridge on steroids. It blew me away for a few reasons. One, so they went through fifteen votes, they had two months to prepare. I'm sure what they were doing for those two months, Like none of this should have taken him by surprise, right, Like Ken McCarthy knew he needed votes? What the hell was he doing? What you doing? I don't I don't get it, Like how was he spending Christmas? Right? Like? Was he not talking to Matt Gates? Like, Hey, how

do I avoid public embarrassment? But the other really interesting thing is it it appeared like it was only twenty members of the Republican caucus that realized that they could

be assholes. And I'm actually like, it's astounding that it was the extremest wing of the Republican Party that did this, and the moderates everyone totally fell in love, Like there are eighteen Republicans that hold Biden districts, and they were just like, yeah, I don't give a fuck, like whatever you guys want to do, Like I'm just happy to be here, like they like do like for for five days, let's just have our branding sent around extremism. I'm cool.

It was just like I was like dumbfounded by the whole thing. One of the things that happened in these mid terms is that the Democratic Party in New York and in Florida really fucked up, thus opening the door for Republicans to. I mean, ultimately take districts that really aren't. There's looking at you, George, Everyone's favorite, the talented Mr Santos.

So my my question for you is, like I think it is, like really shows how cowardly that this Republican Party is that none of the moderates had any sort of desire to like push back at all. Well, first of all, we could just talk about Mr Santos for a moment. I do. I do think it's remarkable and this is a sign of progress for the Jewish people that people are now lying and saying that they are Jewish now, It's true. It's a big win for our people. Not too long ago people are rying and saying exactly

the opposite. You know, we're moving on up. Everyone wants to be us. Everyone wants to be Jewish now, at least if you're running from Congress in Nassau County. By the way, do you have any desire to move to Nassau County and run because there's certainly that just chant

just check, no shot. Every single Republican in Congress was at a fork in the road, right and the fork in the road was very simple, Do I carry your favor with Kevin McCarthy by getting on early, or do I utilize this Really it's it's a it's a singular moment of leverage then every single member of Congress has during the speaker vote, because you know, you can negotiate

a hell of a lot. What every single moderate decided was, or purported moderate decided, was I'm just gonna get on board really easy, give up all my leverage, and hopefully they like me down the road. Now that's in stark contrast. That's actually the exact opposite of what happened for Nancy Pelosi during about where it was principally the people, the Centrists in trump Ish Republican Ish districts that put their foot down and said no, no, no, I'm gonna try

to use this as an opportunity for negotiation. Now, Pelosi did smack the ship out of every single one of them, myself included. So it's not as if you know, there wasn't some like great victory that came of that, but the dynamics, the dynamics were monumentally different than than what we just saw. The biggest mistake that I think we're all making here is we're looking at this as like

this singular moment of political conflict. Right, the extreme is for is this other wing of the Republican Party that's just about who's going to be speaker and just about a rules package. Oh, this week alone, the Republican Party

said what do we want to focus on? They focused on removing a woman's right to our attempting to remove a woman's right to make our own healthcare decisions, something that Nancy Mace, a Republican in Congress, said was idiotic and would stand no chance of being passed by the Senate or being side by the president or we talked

about like the weaponization of law enforcement. So the Party of Freedom and the Party of Law Enforcement decided to spend their first week in power in Congress going against a woman's right to make our own healthcare decisions and against law enforcement. It was very weird. It was a very weird week. Yeah, fucking say, so, let's just go on with this which is here we are, we have

these Republicans. I feel like the lesson we're seeing more and more as the Republicans are refusing to take any lessons from the midterms, right, Like, one of the mid term lessons was that most voters don't like this anti choice stuff. They don't like it. Whatever. The people that you want to pick up that you need to pick up in the Republican Party do not like this anti choice stuff. So what do these Republicans do immediately a

big anti choice beell. It reminds me a little bit of I mean, there's just weird stuff happens in politics that there are separate wings of parties, and you know, sometimes one side wins and the other side loses. This week was particularly idiotic on the part of the Republicans, right, like eighteen Biden districts, a bunch of other seats that are super close to being Biden districts. Why are you

playing around with these weird cultural issues? Why are you in the first you're talking all about budget you know, normalcy, Right, we need to finally look at the budget weed to finally be fiscally conservative and fistically disciplined, despite the fact that you didn't talk about that at all when Donald Trump was president. And the first thing that you want to do is reduced the power of the I R S, which is going to have monumental consequences to increase the deficit.

This is theater and it's nothing else. Eventually they will hopefully start talking about ways that they can improve people's lives and not what was found near Joe Biden's corvette. I locked my garage, thanks Joe. So I want to I just wanna talk about that for a second. Because they can spend all their time passing bills that will go nowhere. They can spend all their time, you know,

making pronouncements that will do nothing. But the thing that they're really going to do is Benghazi at the funk up, and I want to talk to you about that. We saw these chairmen. They kept a few normals in, but they went really very Freedom Caucus. Yeah no, I mean the biggest victory of the Freedom Caucus during these negotiations had nothing to do with the rules package. Before I was elected to Congress, I've never heard of a rules package. No one knows about House rules, No one cares. This

is all kind of ridiculous. They won the committee assignments, they won the chairmanships, Jim Jordan's, they had also the head of the Oversight Committee. And these individuals are going to be hyper focused on for the next two years weakening Democrats and weakening Joe Biden politically. All with the intent of trying to win the presidency. Perhaps Kevin McCarthy's one moment of honesty to the press was when he said post Benghazi hearing, he said, look, we significantly weakened

Hillary Clinton, and that was our intent. They're gonna go after everything in the kitchen sink, and they think that will be to their political advantage. I think it would be incredibly immoral through and through. I don't think it will be with an eye towards improving people's lives, which is what all of this should be focused on. And they're going to think that, oh, that's the that's what

the Democrats did to us. So now an I for an, i I'm sorry, Like, we have to get away from this weird thing in politics where with one side of the House uphold standards, the other side gets to say, well, now we're going to funk your guys up too. So you think it'll just be hearing upon hearing upon hearing,

I think that that will be it. I think that there will be a few moments with the Republican Party realizes that if they want to earn the respect of the American people, prove that they can govern and actually hold onto these Biden districts, like some of these are Biden plus ten. They're gonna have to do something here. Now, the Speaker's greatest power is the ability to decide what gets a vote and what does not. So there will moments under the best of circumstances. Right, this is a

new story. Kevin McCarthy is gonna say, I'll put something on the floor of the House that the vast majority of my own caucus will not vote for. That I will advocate that they don't vote for. But I want to throw a bone too, you know, ten fifteen members of my own caucus. That's the That's the first moment.

The second moment, though, is with this debt ceiling and this I gotta tell you men like it pisces me off, like it kind of upsets me, like when I am like reminded that I have to take the garbage out by my wife. It will have another conversation ut whether or I'm doing a good job at that. I'm sure

you're amazing at yours. It was infuriating. It is infuriating to think that we are going to have a grand debate about whether or not we should pay the bills for ship that we have already spent money up what I mean that. The other thing which I feel like we should talk about is that while Nancy Pelosi was and you could like her, you could not like her. But she was very well respected, have been for a

long time. Was a master vote whipper right, that was like her thing, and in fact, there are many articles written about how she would kill herself to make sure he had she had the votes. She would never bring things up unless she knew where they were going. You know. She was very meticulous and respected. And you might not agree with her politically or the stock trading stuff, which I am not a fan of, but she was focused and organized and exactly what you want in a leader.

We have Kevin McCarthy, who cannot do math, and also a lot of his caucus thinks he's an idiot. There's a chance that the next two years will be the greatest boom for Nancy Pelosi's legacy. Right, No, I mean use every picture of her as like her being like l O L Yes, I mean like and this is

the way these things work, right, Like. She made the Affordable Care Act look easy, She made the path with the Infrastructure Build Chips Bill, the gun bill, legalization of same sex marriage, all of these things, over the Inflation Reduction Act, the American Rescue Plan, all of these things she made look easy in a very very small with a very very small margin, and now we're seeing the other side deal with an equally sized margin, and there's

an element of total political disarray, and we've got to see her being like, you know what you'll think now right, like really fascinating to see. There is going to be a really significant amount of political pressure on the Republican House Caucus to get something done, to show to to

what degree they are normal. I still do believe that, particularly in swing states and swing districts, like we're dealing with a relatively conservative group of people here that do not like theatric like they don't like all of this bullshit, and that's clear in the polling data. They're gonna be cognizant of it. And Joe Biden, for all of his weaknesses,

Joe Biden, there's a teflon quality to this guy. How often he stutters, no matter what's down next to his corvette, no matter what you know occurs in his family, he does maintain the trust of the American people and is viewed kind of above. You know a lot of this crap. I mean, Donald Trump had a certain element of this, much to all of our frustration. Put the hell out

of me out how to battle this? Okay, So now I want to ask you one of the things Kevin McCarthy is most excited about is trying not to see Eric il Hahn and Adam Chef for various and sundry reasons. I mean, look, I understand what is happening, which is that McCarthy wants a false equivalency. But I mean, do you think he goes through with it? And what do you go? He will absolutely go through with it. It

is guaranteed from their perspective. Right what they're saying is is you upset house norms eye for an eye, right like, exactly the opposite of what we teach our children, right like, they're doing that. But again, you are also correct that

that it's based around this incredible false equivalence. Like the one of the people whose committee, the Republicans whose committee assignments we removed, the Democrats removed literally put out a video trying to where he like fantasized about killing or I don't know, like hate fucking like a member of the Democratic Caucus. Right, it was like all types of

weird and completely it was totally warranted. It is really really scary if we go down this road where every side that's in power gets to just randomly remove people from their committees. It becomes like this is like what like ww like political WWF Like it's the it is the strangest, weirdest thing. I hate it because like I really actually I don't want to see people go through this. I really hope this is the end of this era

or this use of this as a political tool. We got to figure out another way to engage in political combat rather than just like kicking people out of the room. It is really really really horrible, really horrible. You know, look, man, you want honesty. Though the people that got kicked off, maybe they're not on the Intelligence Committee, their status just rose even more. They're raising even money, so I'm not

even fucking share. They're upset about it. Like that's what's so crazy about all of it, you know, right right, right, right right, we're in this weird traine whatever is pitical celebrity. Like it's like they're all they're all auditioning to do something else or monetize what they currently have. They don't care. It's a it's a reason why back in the day, right, look at these twenty extremist Republicans. Back in the day.

What would happen is the speaker or the person who wants to be speaker would say, all right, man, like, you want fifteen million for a hospital you want? Can? I can? I I'll give you fifty million dollars to build whatever that park that you want to build, and we can do a ribbon cutting. I think Matt Gates gives a fuck about a park. No, he wants more followers.

He wants to be in the limelight. He wants to be the you know, the central ringleader of the circus because there's money there, and and there's exposure there, and there's like endorphins and ego boost there. Real housewives of the long Worth building. Yeah, you can just imagine it now, right right. I mean it's completely crazy. Max Rose, So good? Did I do better about the text message I'm gonna

get from me today? You know, by the way, reviewers aware of like your fashion choices during your podcast Sweatshirt Listen, this is not the worst I've looked today. I'm just still. I think you looked phenomenal. I think you looked great. You're a fashion forward. Zach Petrizzo is a political reporter at The Daily Beast. Welcome back, Too Fast Politics, Zach Petriso, Thanks so much for having me back, Molly, very exciting.

All right, first thing, first, we have to talk about yesterday one Matt Gates, who is theoretically a member of Congress, was subbing in interviewing George Santos, who was also theoretically a member of Congress, while he said that Steve Bannon was on special assignment. What was Steve Bannon special assignment? Zach Petrizzo, It's funny you say, yeah, it's yesterday. You know, Matt Gates is, you know, filling in for Steve Bannon.

And literally, at the start of the show, I was watching the show, Matt, he trans kind of cover Steve Bannon's tracks and says, Steve Bannon is on quote unquote on assignment. And I found this really interesting because of course, we know, you know, as a as a Steve Bannon watcher if you will, that you know he's not just on assignment. He's not just covering another news story. No, he's in uh, you know, a criminal court in Manhattan

and before a judge. And so while you know Gates is kind of trying to mundy the waters here who his own listeners, the truth is, you know, he's in front of a judge over this we build a wall, we build the Wall scam. And that dates back to the allegations that he basically kind of shimmied off money off the top and defrauded people that had contributed to

this this this pro Trump kind of building the wall effort. Yes, we build the wall, because I mean, the one thing about this crime is like, honestly, I mean, a few people could deserve to be defrauded more. But yes, again it is still he did still commit the allegation is still a crime. Yeah. And and in court yesterday, you know, we saw Steve Bennon trying to delay, delay, delay, um.

At one point he even tried to delay the court with these with with a motion that you know, it wasn't even kind of allowed, that wasn't even so he had a really bad day in court. And then on top of that, you know, you know he's not even talking to his own lawyers now, so he has until I believe it's the end of February to find new lawyers. So the whole case is kind off to a really

bad start for for Bannon. And you know, I think a lot of people, especially in bandon world, are pretty worried about this one because great Frankly could land him in jail for for for a serious at the time. But he did get pardoned. This does not cover because this is federal or state. This is a state crime.

So this is out of New York. And yeah, my understanding, My understanding is this wasn't this wasn't protected by the pardon, and and it could you know, from kind of a bandoned the world, it could really land him in some serious trouble here. The thing I love is like, imagine you get a pardon, but you still have all these other legal cases, like incredible stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And even one of his lawyers, for example, you know, said to the effect of Mr Bannon and his lawyers don't

communicate about this case directly. The lawyers said, there's a direct breakdown in communication. So this is the type of stuff that, of course, when your lawyers and you aren't talking, pretty bad news, pretty bad stuff. Let's talk about the So we have this Donald J. Trump, he is running for president, even though for some reason, no one it doesn't seem like he is. He has is already sort

of shopping for vps. Wow. Yeah, So in Trump World, you know, there are a lot of kind of trial balloons that Trump World and his aids and his confidence kind of set up into the in the sky and hoped that by floating different things, perhaps you know, the MAGA based kind of response, and they get some feedback, and you know, it is interesting because Donald Trump's has this very uncharacteristically kind of tired, sleepy rundown campaign, and the Daily Beast, you know, kind of talked with a

bunch of folks in Trump World and and gathered some things from tragists and confidence and others um. And you know, they gave us a couple of names. And some of these names include Alistaponic, who of course was kind of never Trump at one point and then turned all the way over to being really really pro Trump. And then we have we have Matt Marjorie Taylor Green, who of course is a MAGA favor and you know clearly is starting to talk with Trump and has a closer relationship

with Trump these days. According to our recording. And then of course we have Tulsi Gabber, who is really kind of you know, got kind of a negative reaction from some people in Trump world, despite you know, Trump kind of seeing her all the time on TV on Tucker Carlson Show. Wait, people don't like her because she's a or was a Democrat or why don't they like her?

That's the main complaint. The main complaint that we had heard is it she doesn't even belong to the same party really exactly, that she's just you know, we're giving away all the farm if we if we tapped Ulsea Gabbert. But at the end of the day, look, you know Trump watches a lot of Fox News, as we know, and in his post presidential days he seemed Keelsea Gabbert a lot on Tucker Corllege from the show and just

thinks that she's really smart. And I think Trump probably sees it as look, you know, she's saying all the right things type of thing and doesn't really understand all the other mago grievances that are kind of being tossed around on Twitter. And also he doesn't if she's pretty and she's unboxed, then I mean, isn't that basically his

political belief ultimately? Yeah, I mean I think I think one thing we saw through this whole thing is like it seems as though Trump's really leaning towards a woman vice presidential candidate. You know, I don't know kind of all the reasoning or thinking behind that, but it was kind of a common thread and all these people and even down to people like Carrie Lake for example, right, another person that's kind of been tossing to the mix. And and one thing we had heard from kind of

the folks we talk to was, look, she's great. She really gets along with Trump because she'll say, oh, you know, man, I love that it's raining outside. Did you hear about this voter fraud? Every since into something about voter fraud. But the other thing we heard were some people in Trump world saying, look, this might be a horrible idea because she doesn't have Kinada's general electability and and and isn't able to kind of speak to these these broader

issues besides just talking about voter fraud. So there was some concern there. Yeah, she doesn't have much of anything except Trump was right. I mean, God forbid, we worry about what voters like, but voters tend not to love all this January sixth, you know style rhetoric. Yeah, and and of course she comes from Arizona, which and she

couldn't win. I mean, she doesn't come from like one of the states that's like really kind of would be key or or something like that to kind of the early you know primaries if you would either right, like I don't know, maybe you would get someone like Glenn young Can, who of course Trump hats but you know, at least he's like in in you know, a state by certain margins and has the backing of kind of

all the factions of the GOP. To a certain extent, it seems like Trump, at least from our reporting, he keeps turning into these you know, more Trump and impulses where he sees someone like Marjorie Taylor Green as the Trump and heels and someone who won't kind of you know, turn her back on him like like Pence did quite frankly. Yeah, and but turn his back on him, he means, won't destroy the Constitution and override the election for him precisely. Yeah,

it is important. He wants someone that's really really loyal to MAGA, which is. I also think White Tulsi, you know, in the end, probably wouldn't work because I think she probably has some varying perspectives on war and things like that. So he wants someone that you know, is really really close with the MAGA base, someone like at Leastaphonic or

a margin Tard Green. I think is is definitely a possibility. Yeah, seems like, I mean, such an interesting and also yikes, So tell me a little bit about what's happening right now in Maga world. Because you follow Maga world really even more than I do. What do you think is happening there? Well, yeah, I think it's a really interesting question. I think there's a lot of divides going on right now.

Right so you have, you know, after the speakership race, naturally, I think on Capitol Hill there were a lot of divides among the Maga set, if you would, right, So we saw Representative Matt Gates kind of take him and Lauren Boebert and some others with him. But then on this other side you have people like Margor Taylor Green and and and other kind of Maga folks that are saying, look, let's let's stick with Trump and Carthy and let's do

this and and I'll get along. So I see these kind of rivaling factions that are ultimately kind of you know, taking name at each other almost secretively, right like, accusing each other of not being anti Ukraine enough. Um is one of the favorites that I've been hearing. So you know, we have that kind of developing. And then of course in right wing media, we have people turning against Marjorie Taylor Green for for backing someone like Kevin mc arthy.

So you see her and Trump pultimately taking arrows from these far right media entities, from these these right wing you know shot jocks like Stuke Peters for example, over her you know, McCarthy vote and over her backing on that. So we really see kind of a bubbling up civil war between these kind of two factions. Who is a queen of Maga, Now it's a great question. It's Bobert v. Marjorie Taylor Green, right, Yeah, So that's that's kind of where the riff is now, especially with you know, Trump

not an office. But I don't know who would be the queen of MAGA. I would say, look, our Gailly Bees reporting showed that Marjorie Taylor Green was quote unquote on the phone with Trump all the time. She clearly has a line, as we saw in the House floor to Trump, and they speak rather often. I know, when we saw the Biden documents come out, you know, Marjorie Taylor Green, you know, we had heard that she spoke with Trump quote unquote multiple times after those documents came out.

So there definitely kind of testing the waters, and Trump is definitely kind of thinking about who is my closest, most loyal, kind of lieutenant to be my vice president right now? Is there a world in which MAGA because remember, like true, MAGA hates McCarthy right because they think McCarthy is swamp right, So is there a world in which MAGA Republicans turn on McCarthy, which they already have Marjorie

Taylor Green and Trump. So I think there's definitely this this possibility that happens, I think with with ultimately Trump coming in behind McCarthy, I think that's probably less likely because you know, anytime these magat heads out there, a lot of them, you know, will criticize people like Marjorie

Tayler Green right. For example, as we noted, Sebastian Gorka has been retweeting these sexists insults aimed at Marjorie Tayler Green, suggesting that she and mccarthur in some sort of sexual relationship, which is a lot to unpack. But beyond that, you know, these Magga characters feel like worka won't necessarily criticize Trump and instead it's like, oh, you know, Trump really didn't endorse McCarthy. It's like a game in nine D chess.

Trump didn't really endorse McCarthy. It's his it's his deep state kind of cohort confidence around him saying to endorse McCarthy. Right, So I think in that sense, Trump can never do any wrong. Yeah, whereas you know, someone like marjor Taylor Green is ultimately just kind of toss underneath the magabus. Right. You think Trump survives this McCarthy thing, but Marjorie Taylor Green doesn't. I want to ask you about this match

lap thing. Match lap ping of Sea Pack may not be so interesting to our listeners because he's not that famous, but he is very much a part of MAGA world. To talk to me about these allegations, and do you think like the slaps are able to keep Sea Pack

despite the allegations. Yeah, so this story was broken by a colleague of mine, Roger Solenberger over at the Daily Beast, and the story kind of lays out the case of how you know herschel Walker staffer was was, you know, match Lapp had taken a herschel Walker staffer out to a bar and ultimately inappropriately kind of groped the male staff or the male herschel Walker staffers Genitalia, and then you know, the story kind of lays out this anonymous

staffers account. Since then, since the story, of course, we've seen that the a c U and board members have come out and said, you know, the parenting body that owns governed Sepack says, look, you know, we we stand by match Lap. Now what happens kind of as we keep going, I think, you know, possibly there's more out there who really knows. But you know, if if something like this happens once, it's hard to think that it hasn't happened other times. Right, So I haven't seen other

calls from like more MAGA people. I think, Look, I think sea Pack was once kind of this Republican party hot spot, need to stop by sea Pack. I think it shifted a lot, you know, since it's kind of two thousand and sixteen days now it's just Trump Pack, right, I mean you know that from going there, Molly. Yeah, I don't go anymore, thank god. But yeah, it's such an important part of Maga world. I wonder if it

gets displaced now. It's kind of hard to know, but I do think to a certain extent, Tea Pack has become so pro Trumpian and so Trumpian that ultimately it kind of loses some of its power in terms of having to have all these Republicans of all different stripes kind of come before and bow before them and say, you know, I'm the candidate that should be the big dog, so to speak. You know, whereas in years past it

was more everyone come. Now it's Trump Pack. It loses its power, and I think Matt's ultimately, you know, kind of losing his power to a certain extent. He's been on Fox here and there. But I don't think they have the power they want to did quite frankly, but they still rule that conference. Yeah, I think, so what is it? It's now down to Florida, it's not up here at the Gaylord Hotel in Washington, d C. Yeah, you know, last year had less media cover it. I

think media still covers it. You know, when it was up here, everyone would attend it, you know, now not as much. I guess we'll say, what do you think about Christie Gnome as a possible dark horse candidate? Yeah? No, I think that's another one. So in our in our reporting, we had we had added her to I think she's really you know, I saw Trump interacting with her things

on Truth Social last night. I think she's definitely one of those characters just like at least Dephonic that you know, is really kind of in the magi camp and is already kind of taking you know, different shots at many Trump voes, like Ron Santas for example. Right, And that's basically what what Trump wants to see right now. It's a time where these people are ultimately showing their their

their loyalty to Trump. Right. We saw last night, for example, Carrie Lake out a tweet about a corvette and Trump in the corvette. Yeah, that was pretty stupid, exactly, But it's just even for her, it's the level of like simping, it's the level of like just this pure desperation, right of wanting to be just that confidante to Trump. And being his pick. And it's just I mean, they're so thirsty. They're just out there just posting these very cringe meetings

and stuff, so kind of funny to watch. Yeah, I mean seriously, thank you so much, Zach. I hope you'll come back. Thank you so much for having me. I know you, our dear listeners are very busy and you don't have time to sort through the hundreds of pieces of pundentry each week. This is why every week I put together a newsletter of my five favorite articles on politics. If you enjoy the podcast, you will love having this

in your inbox every Friday. So sign up at Fast Politics pod dot com and click the tab to join our mailing list. That's fast politics pod dot com. Aaron Murphy is a Minnesota state senator and Megan Hondall is the head of Minnesota's DFL campaign. Welcome too, Fast Politics. Thank you so. First we're going to talk to Megan. Will you explain to us your Minnesota bona fides. Yeah, my name's Megan. I grew up in Minnesota, but I'm a campaign staffer who's been working across the country and

in two i ran the sun a DFL campaign. Can you explain what DFL is. Oh, yeah, so a fun Minnesota tidbit. We do not have a Democratic Party. We have a Democratic Farmer Labor Party. Oh very interesting, all right, and then we have Hi. There. I'm Aaron Murphy. I am a registered nurse, and I serve in the Minnesota Senate, having served in the House for twelve years, and I love campaigning. Campaigning is a prelude to governing, and that's why we're here. Tell me exactly how you did it.

How did you flip your state house? Let's hear the story. So Minesota, I think traditionally folks view it as a blue state because we go blue in presidentials, but on the state legislature level that is quite different. For a while, we were the only split government in the country. Our state Senate was controlled by Republicans, and in two we flipped the Minnesota State Senate, which was not expected by a lot of folks. Wait, why Megan is understating, like

almost no one believed that we could win. Even though you're a blue state, we're not really, We're more of a purple state. On the state ledge level. We haven't had a Democratic trifecta in about a decade, and we got new maps like everybody else. And while we could see a path to victory in that new map, it was a very competitive map, and that it was a mid term and people were sure that Joe Biden was

going to be a dragon. The ticket said to those who look at elections and make an early declaration, there's no way you can win a majority. But both Megan and I believe we could do it. So what do you do? We did four things. Actually, one, we invested early. I think in campaigns you can almost always raise more money, but you can't go back in time and hire more staff. Come September. You're not going to be able to just put in an army of well trained door knockers wherever

you want. But if you hire those people before other campaigns, hire um, before anyone else gets to them, keep them on staff, you are able to make that early investment count. And we did that. We began raising money almost immediately after Megan was hired into this position and I was elected as the chair of the Caucus pampaign. We knew we needed to raise significant money and we needed to do it early in order to fund the program that we wanted to build. To win the selection and how

did you do it? So we really updated our playbook, which is what I think campaigns should do every single cycle. You can't assume every cycle is like the last one, right, was so different from two was a whole new beast. So we made a couple very strategic decisions that we had never done before. For folks listening, it might not sound like a big deal, but we switched away from cable and we invested in broadcast, which was a three

and a half million dollar decision, which was scary to do. Wait, you've invested in that's so counter on tunitenove you know, you actually think that, but it's not. You have to meet the voters where they are, and a lot of times they're at home watching the news, right, So it was sort of you invest in local news. Really yeah. Yeah, we invested in a lot of TV, but we also invested in mail and digital and a lot of staff.

And another thing we did which was really different is if we decided to spend in a race, we went all out. So it can be easy to have these incredible candidates across the state who are really worthy of some investment, but then you wind up sprinkling your dollars all across, when what you really need to do in cycles is you need to pick your districts in your path.

And we really only had six and we had to win five out of six, and you have to go all out in those districts and spend all of your money there, which was a whole new approach for us, and I think different than how a lot of state caucuses run. So we made that change and I think it was one of the most crucial changes that we made the cycle. And I will say that the Senate and I'm newer to the Minnesota Senate. I've I've been part of caucus campaigns but in the House, but they

have relied on a similar playbook cycle after cycle. And having served now for it had been six years in the minority, there was a lot of appetite to make change, but not a lot of clarity about what that meant. And so with a new team and with a new focus, we did choose very early to invest early, to raise and invest early in high quality staff, to recruit early, really really strong candidates. I want to give a lot of praise to Megan for the very strategic approach to

this race. We tested ourselves in every measure, so we didn't just pick because of, you know, a decent candidate someplace. We didn't pick because we wanted a place in the past. We looked very deeply into the data in each of the races where we thought we could win, to challenge ourselves to make sure we were on the right path.

And probably one of the hardest jobs that we faced and encountered through the course of this race was making sure that we didn't get pushed by other elected officials or donors or others who had a favorite in the race or an ankling in the race to try and take us off the path. We knew we had a narrow path and we needed to stick to it, and we had the data to back ourselves up, and we used that data and those proof points to get people to buy into the program so they would support us.

And we were right. And up until the day before the race, there were still people saying there's no way you're gonna win. But we had done the work, We had recruited incredible candidates, they had done the work. We spent our time in the field on the doors, and we won by a narrow majority, but we won again decisively. So what would you tell their state parties? I would tell them to knock more doors. And you think you need to write and that is not only candidate should

knock more doors, but staff needs to knock doors. No matter what department you are in, you need to be on the doors. I think as Democrats we can get so caught up in crafting the perfect talking points. YEA, clearly. Yeah. You take it to the voters and you knock on their door and you say you're beautiful talking point, and they're like, what the heck? When sometimes the best talking

points happen when you're on the doors with folks. You're listening to their stories, you're understanding what they think about day to day, and you're meeting them where they are. So if you think you're knocking enough doors, you're not. You need to knock more, no matter who you are. I think we have to remember that every election is the next chapter in our work, and that we should

take lessons from our past. But we have to plan for what we're what we're heading into, investing early in in high quality staff, in a culture that supports them, and in candidates and their ability to run the campaign that they want to that they're proud of. Were strategic choices that we made that really paid off while we knew, you know, and I think about a year ago and the early polling that we did that there were issues like public safety and inflation that we're going to be issued.

Through the course of this campaign, issues like reproductive freedom and protecting our democracy emerged and mostly emerged first at the doors, where people were telling us what they were worried about, and our candidates were able to incorporate that into their message, and it became the foundation for a lot of the message messaging that we did through the course of the campaign. So this is interesting because it is like you kind of had, Like, for example, I

saw so many times that polling was wrong. I mean a great example is like Lauren Bobert ran against the Sky Adam Fresh. We had him on the podcast Everyone and You're crazy. He won't ever win. He lost by seven votes. So there were many many races like this where the polling was just way way off and you know, and certain people lost when they could have won. I mean, I think of Mandela Barnes is another great example. I mean, that was very type. You know, it turned out that

he wasn't ahead by seven points or whatever. So you're saying that you can actually that you that the exposure you had with voters actually informed in ways that the polling did not. Yeah, definitely. I also think you have to take polling as a little piece of the puzzle and not the whole thing, right, So much of this is really dependent upon the candidate, the district and everything. We won. In a couple of districts that Trump won, we outperformed the top of the ticket, which I think

nationally Democrats don't really view that is happening, right. They think that the top of the ticket has coat tails, and however long those coat tails are, are your odds of getting this majority on the state ledge level, and that's really not the case. We really treated these as individual races, and we took polling really seriously. We took data really seriously. But when it comes to state ledge level polling, you're never going to get the amount of

data that you need. So you really do have to rely on actually knocking on doors and listening to what your candidate is saying is happening in their district. Yes,

and I think that's a really good point. I mean, again, it is, you know, one of these things where I mean, if you look at the two elections, you can see that there were certain states where the state party really and I'm gonna curse now, so I know you guys are from Minnesota, so I don't want to like, but no, I'm just kidding where the state party really fucked up and places where the state party really delivered. And I mean places the state party really funked up New York, Florida,

places where they really delivered Wisconsin. I mean Tony Iver's four points. That's like, that's a landside for Wisconsin. So what your story is really about is about working on the state level, right, Yeah. I think Democrats are finally starting to realize that this new post Row era, we're either going to lose our rights at the state level or protect them at the state level, so the investments

we make are crucial. They also decide how redistricting goes, which affects the federal level, so we can't ignore them any longer. Megan mentioned at the start here about the goal of raising money early and early investment, and we were making a really strong argument with donors and allies and partners and with candidates about the shape of this race.

But it is really important at this moment to underscore the discipline of this election and the discipline that Megan brought to this election, whether it was on the data front and making sure that we were really clear about our path and our way to get there, about informing our decisions so that when they were made, we were clear about why we were doing them and making a

really really clear choice. And that I think is counterintuitive as well when you think about state parties, because we didn't go off the regular playbook, and there were plenty of people, including some of my elected colleagues, who were raising their eyebrows and saying, why are you doing X, Y or Z. But we always had the data to back up our decision making, and in a close race,

those decisions are consequential. And I just can't say enough about the you know, the credit I want to give to Megan into the team that she built to bring us through a really tough election and into a victory that was largely one in the field. And for all of the decision making that drove us to that great outcome, what were the things that raised eyebrows were pretty mean when it came to our TV ads, we were not Minnesota nice. No listen, I mean, I want to know

how you want. That's what we're talking about here. Yeah, So we had an ad that they tried to get pulled off TV for it being inappropriate maybe in some of the language. We're pretty vicious though, right, you have to show voters who these elected officials could be or who they are. And as much as voters say they hate negative campaigning, it does work and sometimes you have to be okay, you know, showing showing voters who your candidates are, and that was one of the things that

we really changed. And then on the flip side, we also had these incredible candidates who were distant from the negative ads, who knocked on so many doors, who had these incredible races and these incredible teams. Everyone talks about these grassroots movements, and I don't think people really understand how important it is to have people who are just knocking doors day in and day out, because that makes

one of the biggest differences. I know that sounds like it contradicts each other, but really those are two ways that we want. We had incredible candidates in districts that we're going to be hard for us to win. And so there were questions about why aren't you doing more in District X, Y or Z, because look how strong this candidate is, how much money they've raised, how many doors that they're knocking, and that sirens song have have

spread yourself out, maybe we can win some more. Things is a danger and we were very disciplined about making sure that we understood our path. Also, we wanted to make sure that the candidates understood that every one of them, every one of our sixty four candidates, contributed to our victories.

So even in the hardest races, when we did our post campaign evaluation, we had candidates talking about how they didn't win, but they contributed to the victory for the attorney general and to our majority, and that that pays dividends as well going forward for us. So that's like the argument like in North Dakota, they didn't Democrats didn't run for some of these congressional seats because they knew

it was, you know, in our plus forty. But this makes the case and I and we've had people on this podcast before we've talked we've talked about this, especially from Run for Something that if you run candidates even in districts where you know you may lose, you know in our plus twenty in our post that actually it helps other candidates nearby. I mean, I don't know what

the causality there is, but that is what it does, right. Yeah, And those districts, especially in those excerpts too, they might be our plus ten right now, but in four years, eight years, twelve years, they're not going to be. And you can't just start from nothing unexpect to flip a seat. So you have to have voters and volunteers who are engaged and ready to go. So if you run good candidates across a state, it really does make a difference

in that cycle and in future cycles too. Yeah. No, I mean, and I think that's a really good point. Now that you guys have flipped your state House, where do you go from here? You know, we're at the very beginning of what I believe will be a very productive two years for the state of Minnesota in following through and the commitments that we've made to the people

of Minnesota. So we're gonna, of course enshrine reproductive freedom, do paid family leave, We're going to invest in our schools, We're going to do the things that we said we were going to do for the people of Minnesota. They expect us to do those things, and for me, who is a practitioner and a hopeful, joyful kind of politics. When we ask the voters for support and we don't follow through, when we break our word, we contribute to

the cynicism that really undermines our fundamental democracy. And then I am already looking at Megan here. We're already talking about the next election, which is just four years away, and preparing the groundwork now so that we can compete in the next one in the terms and conditions of that race and expand their majority. That all sounds great. Thank you guys, so much, Thank you, Thank you, Molly

John Fast, Jesse Cannon. So, Kathy Hokold, newly elected by a little less than everybody thought she'd get elected by, for some reason, is imitating Andrew Cuomo's governing tactics, which no one wants. Yeah, I think this is a really important case. Kathy hoko was a previous guest of ours. Um she has sort of decided that she has to have this can't this judge Hector Lassalle, and she wants to put him on the highest court and he he sucks.

He's an anti choice, he's andre labor union. Nobody wants him. He's been rejected by progressives everywhere. And she is not backing down, and she is just super hot to get this guy on the court. And you know, as we know, part of the reason that Democrats lost the House was because Cuomo cut this redistricting deal in twelve which kicked the can down too and had this nonpartisan redistricting which

gave Republicans a bunch of safe seeds. And so now we have Hoco who's basically doing exactly the same thing, and she's also supporting this really terrible uh the head of the Democratic Party of New York, a guy called j Acobs, who also has just done a terrible job with the to election and needs to resign. You know, we try not to get involved in like inter parties squabbles, but this is really bad and Kathy Hokel needs to get it together. She represents people of New York. The

people of New York elected a Democrat. They do not want a Republican taking the highest court. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to your the best minds, and politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.