Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, where we discuss the top political headlines with some of today's best minds. And Donald Trump says he as to cognitive test by identifying a whale. I'm sorry, but you can't argue with that. We have such a great show today NBC News as John Allen joins us from the snowy fields of New Hampshire to give us updates on the Republican presidential campaign trail. And we'll also talk a little bit about the Congress and pretending to want to
deal with immigration. Then we'll talk to Heather Williams, president of the DLCC, about the ways in which Democrats are trying to influence policy at a state level. But first we have the host of the time of Monsters, the Nation's Jed Here. Welcome back to Fast Politics, my best aid. Jed here.
Always good to be on the front ground.
I'm very happy to have you. I really like you. That we never get to hang out because you live in Canada.
I think it's much better if I go down and visit you in New York.
Yes, and we'll all go on a nation cruise. I saw this piece of news. It really captured my imagination and I wanted to talk to you about it first. Justin Trudeau, your Prime minister, is pretty hot to run against Trump, explain to us how this works.
I think what they're going to do is try to link the Conservative Party here to Trump, and that might have been hard to do. Like five years ago or more, Canadian Conservatives used to be of a different breed, but unfortunately, like as in many other places in the world, the right here has taken us our populous turn and including
on issues like not wanting to help support Ukraine. But I also like sort of soft denial of COVID and anti vaccing stuff, and so yeah, I mean, I think you know, he's very down on the polls right now. I think they have a plausa will pass forward emphasizing how much the Conservatives have become Trump like. And Trump is very unpopular here. He's like eighty percent of the population here he doesn't like him. So if you can get that anti trumpfoot, if you're doing well.
It's interesting to think about here's a brand that's so bad that other presidents in other countries are going to run against him.
Yeah, I don't know. I think that's right. Well, I actually think that Trump's brand is bad in the United State. It's a little bit deceptive right now because he's in the Republican primaries, that's the group of people that like him. I actually think people are underestimating Trump's unpopularity.
I think so too. Now I want to ask you as we go down this rabbit hole. I think that's right. But polling and again full disclaimer, not a fan, but polling has Biden down. There clearly is a feeling certain progressives are very mad at him. What do you think. It's many days away from the election, and so there really is an opportunity for Biden to win those people back, right, Like then, never Trump. Republicans are not going anywhere, they
have no choices. But like, how does Biden win progressives back? How does he bring them home?
Well, I think there's a couple of things that have to happen. One is, I think it's really hard, like as long as Gaza and foreign policy are kind of dominating the news, Like I don't think people necessarily voted for that, and it's becoming increasingly unpopular with his own base. But let's stipulate that, you know, like that's not going to go on forever and is not going to be
the main issue in the summer in the fall. I actually think that Biden's doing a couple of things that are like smart and maybe not giving getting enough credit for. Oh interesting one is the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. They just released their real ending bank overdraft fees, and like that's like a really good measure. It's like a small board thing, but like it actually you know, like a lot of people to live paycheck to paycheck.
It punishes poor people disproportionately.
Absolutely absolutely, Yeah, they're setting aside like land or solar power. A lot of federal lands is just announced today. Like a small board thing, but it's sort of I think it's a good wedge issue because that's obviously something Donald Trump will not do. And I think like the more you can emphasize like, oh, you know, like the stuff that like Biden can do and that Trump won't.
Young people do vote on climate because they would like the planet to still be here.
That's right, Yeah, yeah, you know, using the power that you have as a sort of federal administrative state. And I think it's a lot more that could be done
in this area. I mean, I think that Biden's been good on judges, but that's been slowing down lately, and I would actually like really encourage them to like pick up the pace for a variety of reasons, one of which is just like you know, you could also lose, right, Like you want to get as many of your judges in there as possible and prevent as many Trump appointing judges if he gets back in. But having done that, I mean, I don't think you should just be doing
it as a routine administrative thing. Like they just play up the fact that, like, hey, there are all these judges out there that Trump judges are voting very badly on a lot of issues, like you know, particularly on abortion stop that continues to be a big issue, like where they're like supporting bad decisions at a state level
and not not offering protection of rights. So I think that like if you can play up the judge issue as a political issue to like just say like it actually like really matters, Like you know, if your judge is going to like vote to say that like breath control pills are illegal and force women whose babies have already died to like carry to term, I would actually like turn the judge stuff into like a fighting issue.
Just say these are just like regular ordinary judges, right, these are you know, Trump judges occasionally like push judges as well, you know, but just say like we actually you know, are having a big battle about this, and then make that the issue. You know. I think the Supreme Court, because of Dobbs, has like really made itself
an issue. And I think that you can both run on Dobbs and but also like emphasize the new decisions that are gonna come down because I actually think there's a pretty good chance they're going to overturn the sort of Chevron precedent, which will be like disaster for the environment.
And again, as you said, like the young people and the left raighting progressives who are very of Biden, I think that you know, you have to like make that a fighting issues, say like you know, like these decisions are you know, coming from a pretty demonstrably corrupt court, especially like you know, like course such you know, his mami has a long history of like anti environmental policy,
and this is something they've wanted for years. There's a way in which like Biden and Democrats of his generation are there conflict a verse and they are worried about you know, like undermining the system. But actually I honestly think, like, you know, like making the judiciary like a central thing. It's saying, like, you know, all these bad things that
are happening. If you don't give Biden in a democratic Senate, then you know, Republicans will entrench their powers in the courts even more and they'll make click everything like just
so much harder on any issue you care about. So I think that there's like, as I said, a host of policy stoff, you know, like I wrote about this recently, the transportation issue, Like you know, like if you're willing to pick a fight with Boeing and with the airlines, and this is again going against how people put to
judge the Transportation Secretary has generally behaved. But like if he actually says like everyone is mad at the airlines, right, and the buddaget did actually give them credit, did like do a very strong thing in finding the airlines for the big mess that they created, not the past Christmas, with the previous Christmas.
And they were not happy with that. That was really good.
Yeah, But but just like I think that a lot of people are very mad.
Boeing is a great example.
Yeah, Boying is a great example, and like to actually and you know, like this is something is a bit of a challenge because unfortunately the art Democrats have tied the Boying, But I think it's the more popular physician is to go against them, to say, like, you know, like you had a company that you know, used to be run by engineers and had engineers like on the board of directors and now it's all just concerned with Wall Street and say, like, you know, you have to change.
And Boeing is a company that depends on government money, right, and like if you're going to get like and all that government money one way or another, you know, you have to like live up to certain standards. Both as an economic populis seing, but I think also just as the sort of you know, build back better agenda, right, we want America to be like competent again. We want
to be America to be that great manufacturing power. And as president, I'm gonna like call out Boying, and I'm gonna call out the airlines because the way they're been running stuff since COVID, like it's a disgrace, and I think a lot of people are angry about it. As I mentioned earlier, I was pretty pleased with the overdraft thing, because that is a sign of an administration that's willing
to pick a fight with the banks. Right, so you have to just like pick out like five or six villains that are not just Trump, but like these corporate villains. And I think then you tiey with Trump. It's not just you're gonna get Trump back in. But Trump is a pony's he says, he's like for the people that he'll never pick these fights, will pick these fights.
Yeah. I think that's a really good point, this idea that Democrats can actually be economic populous in a way that Republicans can't because they have no interest in being it. And it is like true, right that Democrats are a populous You don't do these things unless you believe in helping people write. So I do think that's a really point.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think there has actually been a lot of stuff, you know, maybe not as much as I've liked or as many of your listeners would like, but there has been stuff that Biden has been doing, you know, Like I mentioned Lisa Khan, who's the chair woman of the Federal Trade Commission, Like she's been like doing some pretty serious anti monopoly. Stop that's like really
gotten corporate America angry at her. If I were her, I would take out a restraining order against the Wall Street Journal because they are obsessed with her, like like scores of article. If this were like civilian person, you'd be saying, like, okay, you can't get within like eighty feet of her, right, But they're there on behalf of
corporate America. And I don't see why the Democrats students say, we appointed this person super confident, a real fighter, and she's like making the corporations mad as hell and they ate her, and this is our fighter. So yeah, I mean, I think that sort of fighting message will help Biden a lot. And I think it's a message that actually has the virtue of being consistent with the facts, Like it has the virtue of like you're actually trying to
sell something that's true. We talked about the polls, right there is like reason three pessimism. I don't want to be like a Pollyanna, and the prospect of another Trump presidency you should terrify us. It's going to be the end. It's going to be like a period of turmoil in America we've never seen. And the poles are tight, and it's going to be tight in the fall. But the Democrats continue to like overperform in the sort of special elections. They just won one down in Florida.
Yeah, state House.
Yeah, state, they flipped that. Actually, I think Florida is kind of an interesting thing. Is it's something that sort of like fell out of the grasp of the Democrats starting in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen. But I think that DeSantis, you know, and trying to become president has like gone so far to the right that he's actually like activated Democratic Party.
There. It's Spran back all over again. Right, I mean it's Arizona, It's Sheriff Joe right.
Yeah. Yeah. So I think that there is, you know, ways in which one can win back people, and I think that there's a ways in which the real and the unpopularity of both Trump and the Republican Party is like a big factor. So I honestly think if it's a domestic policy issue, Biden's in good shape, like on
foreign policy. Like I'm not a complect hater of Biden either, but I think it's the unfortunate thing is that there's a lot of people who are instinctively think like, if there's wars, you want like a tough guy, Right, there's stuff to criticize in Biden or whatever, But I just worry about that.
Yeah, Joe Biden is not the first person to get into trouble with this situation, which is a completely unsolvable solve. Everything is just a humanitarian crisis everywhere. It is a really interesting moment. I think your point though about economic populism, and I mean even like, for example, the Chips Act, which nobody cares about but is actually humongous, right, is this idea that they brought all this manufacturing back to
the United States, which was Trump. He said it was going to bring things that he didn't and couldn't have. You know, coal, which is very very expensive. It's bad for the climate, yes, but it's also quite expensive. Right, It's like you might as well just not do that and just like cheaper, it's going to bring back coal and make coal great again. That's a great example though, like Chips is actually bringing back manufacturing to America in
a way that we hadn't in a long time. And I think that's quite quite interesting.
Yeah, yeah, I know, I think that's quite interesting. I think another thing that democrats can lean on is labor, Like there has been a real you know, revival of labor in terms of like labor having a fighting spirit, and they've been like you know, these big strikes, and the unions have these big strikes that have been union victories like of a type that we haven't really seen
since the seventies. And I think, like, you know, like if Joe Biden is like up there with the autoworkers, even with like you know, the Hollywood people, the writers and actors and with the team stars who are a big part of that Hollywood strike, and in terms of support, like just say you have a president that as the back of labor, that supported labor during the auto strike, You're not going to get that with Trump really emphasize the differences in ser like economic and material terms. I
think this is like a debate among the left. Like there's some people who say, like, well, Trump's streatch to democracy is bad enough that should convince people. In theory, I kind of agree with you, but like actually like to motivate people to get people to vote, get out there, like if you can actually show like real material things that you're making a difference on to show these like
this is a union resident. I think that would mobilize people because you know, it's actually interesting you look at that you're talking about polls. You look at the polls. All the institutions, the Supreme Court, the media, the military, they're all down in terms of public trust. The only institution that's like risen in public trust in the last ten years is unions. And they're actually like added on
at all time high. So why not make it clear like one party is the party of unions and one party is not.
It's really good point. It's funny because we always think about, like I always right about the Supreme Court and how their approval rating is literally every day man there gets lower.
Yeah, historic lows, historic lows for the Supreme Court.
Right, And like people hate Congress, they hit the President and they hit this, they hit that, but they do like unions. And that's after the Koch brothers spending a lot of money trying to say, you know, unions don't there's so much corporate money fighting unions. There's one thing they don't like.
It's unions, that's right, that's right. Yeah, And I think that you want a wedge issue where the Republicans can join you like like Trump did try he's the lowest part of the most Republicans. He tried to make it look like he was supporting the autoworkers, but he actually you know, went to a non union.
Shop, right, so trumpy.
And the thing with the unions is they're good educational enterprises. Like you know, they don't just go on strike. They have like meetings at membership and they tell you up the union official, tactive members, and of the trust of members because they're the guys. You know, if you get in trouble with the boss, your union stewart is the person who's going to have your back. Mobilize the unions and get this message out that there's a fundamental difference
and that Trump is a phony. I think that'll make a big difference. I'm not totally like pessimistic, like I think, you know, things are a lot closer than I would like them to be, just on the issues. I think Biden has a lot of advantages. The other thing is just to mobilize the whole party, like not just have it, you know, like Biden. But you know, you have like you know, like Obama Warren, you have Bernie Sanders, you have all these very popular governors like Whitmer. If you
mobilize the whole party, I think this is a winnable fight. Like, I don't want any of your listeners to like, you know, let's throw the towel right now, because that's not where we're at.
Jeet here, thank you so much for joining us.
Oh it's always a pleasure.
John Allen is a senior national politics reporter at NBC and author of Lucky How Joe Biden Barely won the presidency. Welcome back to Fast Politics, John Allen.
WELLI, John Fust. I'm so happy to be back.
With you, so happy to have you. First of all, we're friends, which is so and you know, since it's silly season, we don't get to see any of our friends because it's this insane primary season or whatever.
We're real friends.
We're real friends.
I set you the holiday card, my family's holiday card, and I would.
Say the real data point here is my kids were like, oh, it's the Allens. But so let's talk about you went from you were in Iowa, now you're in New Hampshire. You know this is not a normal primary season. Let's talk about Iowa. First, you were there, I mean the turnout was slightly less than half of what it was in twenty sixteen, But was the enthusiasm the same. I mean, sort of talk us through if you saw a difference on the ground.
Yeah, I mean I think there was a little bit less enthusiasm, partially because there wasn't much competition. I mean, it was very clear that Trump was going to win by a lot. But the other thing that I do think affected the turnout is that it was like end below twenty below zero, like depending on where you were and what time of the day. And you know, there's
ice and snow like blanketing the entire state. I mean even the cities where they have like snowplows, you know, ready to go, and you know municipal governments, like the streets were like kicked in like inches of height, so it was really dangerous to go out. And then I think that affected turn out as well.
But also I think the sense that it was a feed a complay, right, I mean, the polling showed that nobody was going to displace Trump.
Right when you say this is an unusual primary season, I think it's partially it feels like an unusual primary season because Donald Trump is effectively an incumbent. I'm not saying that he won the twenty twenty election, but he has won the Republican nomination twice. Some ridiculous percentage of his party believes that the or at least says that
they believe the election was rigged last time. He is running as an incumbent in this primary, and yet there are relatively serious people who were running against him, and that's an unusual hybrid thing. Usually serious people do not run against incumbents in their own party.
Which is what we're seeing in Biden world right, and the way it's playing out with the electorate here is much more like an incumbent running against non serious people or somewhat serious people, but not in an open seat for the Republican nomination.
And so that, you know, it shouldn't be terribly surprising that Trump was the dominant figure in his party. It has been since they arrived on the stage eight or nine years ago. Couldn't be terribly surprising that he's dispatching for tenders to the throne.
Yes, I think that makes a lot of sense. I mean, I also think like they're not offering anything but a sort of mimeograph of the og right.
That's definitely a uh you know where jasanis is. I think it's where Ramaswami was. Christie was obviously very different. You know, Nikki Haley tried to shoot thread and needle a little bit where you know, she says trumb was the right guy at the right time, but now it's a different time, and so we don't need that guy anymore.
And there's a lot of work being done by you know, by the idea that she's offerating something different, which she isn't terribly different from a policy perspective, but different enough for the rest of the Republicans to look at her and yell Democrat, and different enough for the Democrats to look at her and be like, eh, she'd be better than Trump.
Right. I want to talk to you about this because this segue is right into the veepstakes, right.
I think Kamala Harris is going to get it. I think Kamala Harris will be Joe Biden's choice exactly.
Just to be clear, Yeah, but in this veepstakes on the Republican side, there's a lot of anxiety in Trump world that Trump might pic Nick, right, will you talk us through that.
I think there's a lot of anxiety in Trump world about all of the people, and there's a lot of jockeying to be the person, and there's only one person that's going to make that decision. I mean, that's always the case, but it's even more so with Trump that trying to figure out what's going to influence him is
a real guessing game. And I think the more active people are and try to impress him or to appear to be oppressing him for that reason, the more likely it is that he's going to decide they're not the
only person. But who knows. I mean, I think go factor in a couple couple things, like number one, is this somebody you know who basically would try to stop the certification of election, Like not that necessarily would come up again, but the person with that kind of loyalty that no matter what he tries, no matter what his interpretation of the Constitution is, that this person will be with him compell or high water of the people that
hit that qualification. I think he's gonna kind of look in his mind's eye, as he always does at the stage, and think to himself, who's the person that looks best right.
Who looks the most like in the TV version, right.
Right, go looks the best mash up against Kabla Harrison. I don't mean physically looks the best, but like just matches up well, you know, and we'll match up in the mind's eye of voters. And so, you know, I think there was a point where that could have been nikkiy Haley, and maybe it could be again, she has touched a part of the Republican Party that Donald Trump is alienated and is obviously, you know, appealing to a
lot of independence. But you know, I think you're more likely to get somebody who's just like, yeah, traditionally in that Trump mode, like Tim Scott or Christine Nome or somebody like that. But who knows, right.
I mean, I think the idea of ascribing logic to the way Trump works, there's no evidence to support the supposition that logic is involved in Trump's decision making.
Well, I think the way that I would look at it is that his decisions aren't made along the line the traditional lines for like a vice president. They don't necessarily track, you know, with generations of politicians have done. You know, like, I just think his metrics are different. He's not sitting there with some law firm like going like, all right, let's bet their background.
I mean, yes, I feel like we're having a conversation about him like he's a normal political candidate, and I think we should pause because even though, and again I know you're not your nonpartisan and on the straight news side, So I'm not going to ask you to say anything here, but I'm just going to say, in my mind, treating
him like a normal candidate. Well, it is true. There are certain things about him, like he's going through the caucus in a normal way, his plan for what he will do if he gets re elected, and the legal challenges that he's facing make him an unprecedented candidate.
Fair, Yeah, I mean I don't think that's a partisan thing to say. I think he is unprecedented in American politics for a variety of reasons, and certainly the facing criminal indictment and three jurisdictions one of them twice is one of the ways in which he is non traditional or unprecedented as a candidate. That's not partisan to me. You know, the question like to treat Donald Trump differently as a separate question that but absolutely there's never been anything like in American politics.
So let me ask you. One of the things that Trump has been doing is he's been going to all of these court cases and he didn't go to the Eugene Carrol case when the jury was deciding and they voted in several case they consider him to be guilty of raping Egene.
Carol, right, sexually assaulting.
Sexually assaulting. This jury has found that, right, So now we're in this sort of damages phase and actually now we're enough. Did he libelhar one of the things that he's been doing. And you can argue it's smart, you can argue it's done. But he has been trying really hard to make this case a case that has tried in the media and not his social media and not
in the court. Right, He's tried really hard to say this is about me, and they're cure to get me, but they're really trying to get you or make it a larger issue that isn't about his situation with Egen. And I'm wondering, I think that is sort of plan right now, as much as he has a plan for anything, is that he is going to be at a lot of these hearings, right, yeah, I mean that way, I mean, what's your sense on how that play is well, at.
Least in a primary, plays very well. For there's nothing that has, you know, has entered his base more than the idea that Donald Trump is being unfairly targeted. So I think he likes being in a court room. I mean, I'm sure he doesn't love sitting there listening to judges tab shut his mouth, but it has been politically good for him with his base, and I think he understands that in order to win the presidential election, he needs
his base super energized. He needs them angry, He needs them to believe that not only is he being treated unfairly, but he is, you know, as he likes to say, a vessel for them, and he likes to say that the government's going after him to go after them. And that's his argument making that something that is fresh in the minds of his supporters is important to his electoral strategy.
Can we talk a little bit about what's happening in Congress right now? Sure, I know you're in New Hampshire.
I'm touring the coldest places in the world in the winter time.
There are some really good pancakes, right, There's some good I had the best little stuff grapes this morning. Yeah, I mean New Hampshire is like a jam.
Really the syrup that's really the syrup that does it.
So let's talk about Congress. We're in really interesting moment I think in Congress where the Senate wants a border deal whatever that looks like, more than the House wants a border deal.
The reason that we haven't had comprehensive immigration reform, and we've been really debating it intensely for the last basically twenty years. The reason we haven't had that is that it is politically beneficial to the Republicans to not have its tall and at time right now, at least, and at the times it has politically been beneficial to the Democrats to not have it solved. When George W. Bush was president, Barack Obaba voted for a poison pill in
the Senate that basically killed comprehensive immigration reform. The two parties like this fight right maybe more than anything else, speaks to the split in their values. It's something that generates money, like donations, something that generates votes.
Right on the Republican side well.
But also on the Democratic side. Right now, the Democrats are hiding from it a little more than than they might. You know, it probably depends on how much the public sees at any given moment on documented immigration as a problem versus a positive, and that probably connects pretty closely to what the economy looks like in the US at any given time. But there are times when this is, you know, an issue that's very beneficial for Democrats, or at least they didn't want George W. Bush to get it.
I think, I mean, immigration is a really interesting issue because I feel like there's such a there's been so much can kicking on it, and there's been on both sides for sure. Right now though we're in this tenuous position where it's going to be a third cr signed which will keep the government from shutting down, sounds like, but the Ukraine funding borders. I mean, this will be
a package if it works. What I think is a little bit interesting about this moment is it seems as if Mike Johnson, as much as he is in the same almost identical situation to Kevin McCarthy, he seems like he's not being held hostile in quite the same way to the right now, to the far right now. He may still end up being held hostage by them, but he does. He's behaving as if he has more leeway.
He does have more leeway, And I think there are a couple of reasons for that. Number One, they already just got rid of a speaker.
Right, he can't do that too many times.
You can't do it every week. He knows that there is some latitude. I also think that the reason that Kevin McCarthy's no longer the Speaker of the House is personal. They stopped liking him, they stopped crossing him, or whatever
it was. But like, there are different reasons, and I'm sure some of them would based on policy, but like the truth of the matter is, there's not much difference between the way Mike Johnson will play this in the way Kevin McCarthy will play this, except for that Kevin McCarthy was a little bit more experienced and might have the benefit of that experience. And you know, Johnson stilled feeling his way out a little bit.
Yeah, no, I mean it's quite interesting, but it does seem like there is a schism in the party between Mitch McConnell's saying he wants a border Deale, right, I mean, do you think there is? And again, this is a supposition as much as anything. But like, do you think there's a world in which Mitch McConnell has less to lose and so is even less motivated by Trump and his anxiety about Trump?
I do think he has less to lose. O. Look, he's already gotten everything he wanted out of life, you.
Know what I mean.
He's been set up the majority leader or whatever. So like on a personal level, he's reached the apen.
It seems like this is it for him, right.
I think he wants to get the policy done. I think he thinks it's good to strengthen the border. I think he's an old school politician who's like, when you see an opportunity to get the thing done that your voters want done, you should do it. And so like, for example, you know the Supreme Court stuff, you know, like the judges the Supreme Court. He wasn't like, Oh, we're going to appoint these people and then they're going to undo Roe versus Weight, and then we're going to
lose a bunch of elections. He's like, the people that elected me in the Senate are pro life, and the people who elected them want a zero overturned. And so we're going to push that to get the thing done. There's something classic and predictable and traditional about that that is different from the modern Republican leaders that have succeeded or at least you know, have grown up since Mitch McConnell first came to power. So like, it makes sense
that you would want a border deal. Also, even if they get a border deal, it's still an issue that his candilates can use in, you know, in the campaign trop because I don't think anybody's going to see a border deal and then immediately immigration's going to stop.
I mean, Mike Johnson does have like an opportunity here to show Republicans doing stuff, you know, like he really has these far right Republicans who want to burn it all down. From what I understand from people I've talked to,
I know, you'll be shocked to hear that. I don't talk to any Republicans in the House, but there is a sense that the people who are a Republican, who are quote unquote normal Republicans are furious with the heart right because they just want to get stuff done and they're irritated that these people have made them look bad.
I would say members from Swing districts that are on the you know, on the chopping.
Block, like Michael Lawler.
They're not happy with just blocking things and they're not happy with messaging boats. But if you're like Johnson and you want to get stuff done, like your best route is to like have a bunch of those messaging boats and like let all these let all the super conservatives like get their you know, get their day on the House floor and then ask them to vote for the things that they don't like and say, like, look, we put your stuff up even if it failed, and you
could do that through an amendment processes. It's one of the sad things that's been lost in recent years, with you know, a ton of turnover in the House and primaries and stuff, is that leaders have lost the sense of how to legislate and the deals that you can make and the ways in which you can make your members happy or satisfy them enough. I feel like the floor is not used as well as it could be.
John Allen, thank you so much. Also, Seersucker Day, right, I guess it's still.
Going not in New Hampshire Soccer here weird plea.
Seer Soccer Day. Heather Williams as president of the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee. Welcome to fat Politics, Heather, Thank you.
I'm very excited to be here.
Let's talk a little bit about this twenty twenty four memo brus. Tell us what you do and why you are.
Here would be too. So the DLCC is the party committee responsible for identifying ways to build power in the states. We work across states to really articulate and identify, using data, where the greatest opportunities are to build power. And what we're seeing is the states are where things are getting done. It's where the Democratic Party's agenda is geting accoplished, why
the president's agenda is geting accomplished. It's where we're protecting our rights, and we are on the forefront of that work.
Let's talk about that, because on the Republican side, we see, for example, in Texas, Abbot killing migrants. I mean, I'm not laughing, I'm just shocked that that's happening. Revernor Abbot took away the right to choose right. I mean, that was what they did with SBA. So we do see a precedent for states setting the tone in a larger way.
Right on the Dobbs decision, crystallized for so many people the importance of what was happening in the States, and it shed a light on what was going on in a way that it just hadn't existed before. And that's really important because for a long time, I think the States were seen as a laboratory of democracy, as an
opportunity to try and test things. Legislation moves very quickly, things could happen fast, and what we've seen since the Dobbs decision is a spotlight and Republicans refusing to listen to their constituents, to voters on the issues that they care about and what they want to see action on, and instead are using their power to advance their own personal ideals and agenda right.
And I think also takeaway rights right. I mean SBA is a great example of taking away rights like this was a right that it was entrined in the Constitution, taken away by a state legislature.
Absolutely, the same thing happened in North Carolina when there was a party switcher and the governor lost the video power, and the first thing Republicans did when they had enough power to do so was be an abortion. This is the first thing that they're doing everywhere.
So let's talk a little bit about like I've certainly seen a Michigan. They've worked really hard at the state legislature. Can you talk a little bit about that.
Michigan has been a legislative battleground for a long time, and we worked really closely with them in twenty twenty two. We built a trifecta. It is a narrow margin trifecta, but it is one that took their power very seriously, and they delivered for the voters. They delivered on their promises, and they went into their first legislative session as a trifecta with a really clear agenda, and they made so
much progress in Michigan. They advanced and secured abortion rights, they moved common sense gun legislation, they made their labor laws so much better. They just did so much good with what they had. And now we're in a position where the state Senate is not on the ballot in twenty twenty four, but the state houses, and they are
going to prove their case to the voters. They're going to talk about all that they've accomplished, and they're certainly going to be asked to return to that trifecta in November.
When it comes to state legislature, what are the rights that you can enshrine for people?
Oh, this is such a great question. The power of the state legislature is pretty vast. You know. When we think about in context of this decision and where our rights are, you're seeing Democrats and the legislature at vance or secure our rights around abortion and reproductive healthcare, around access to contraceptives, around voting rights, around allowing us to love who we want to love and marry who we want to marry, Around safety and schools, around safety in
our community. So many of these fundamental rights have a state based component to them. And with the inaction in Congress and the deep need to address issues in this country, all of the action is happening in the states. And you see such a stark contrast of not just priorities but action when you look at and compare Florida and what they are doing in their legislature in their state versus you know, Minnesota or Michigan New Democratic trifectas and what they are doing.
So talk to me about Minnesota, because that is very exciting in my mind.
Minnesota has done, you know, a really incredible job. The Senate is on the ballot again in twenty twenty four. The Houses, they really took, what I would say, and I'm from Minnesota, like a very pragmatic approach to their legislating. They looked at the things that we're going to touch people's lives, that we're going to give them some relief that we're really going to affect it. And the thing that I always like to talk about in Minnesota is they made sure that all kids had access to lunch.
And it is governing through that lens, through understanding that you have the power to not just make a difference, but to do things that have a true impact to our lives. That represents the kind of community and government that we're actually looking for, that cares for people. And they accomplish that and so much more in Minnesota.
Let's talk about that, because the Republican case against free school lunches, free school breakfast is that it is like some real backward stuff. I mean, you know, we don't want to end up paying for someone who could afford lunch. I mean, they really have no argument against feeding hungry kids. Where else are you guys feeding hungry kids? Where else is the legislature doing those kind of anti poverty things that seem to not get the spotlight but are so profoundly important.
I think you're seeing elements of this across all of our democratic chambers, and you're seeing advocating for this in chambers where Democrats are in the minority. This is the kind of work that Democrats are doing. Of course, the attention right is always on the ability to expand abortion access or to remove an ancient law off the books.
That is what gets the spotlight. But when you go a layer deeper, you see these very pragmatic, smart approaches to ensuring that our communities are strong, that we're looking through a lens of justice and people feel included, and that we are using our resources to help people where we can. And we see that all over the place,
and we see Republicans fighting against it. Yet they are the first ones to offer vouchers where they may be doing the exact same thing for private schools, right the person who could afford it is given a voucher, But we couldn't do the same for school lunch.
I would love you to just explain to our listeners why you think that Republicans are happy to support schools that are not public in a way that they don't with public schools.
I think what we're seeing across Republicans and the way that they are governing is that they are doing it for them, and they're very narrow communities. Their interests are not for the people. They may not know where the communities they are not a member of. They cannot seem to comprehend how to even say, do you know what, I'm not a member of this community, but I understand that this thing is hard. Let me make it easier. Let me make sure that you are included in our
community and that we are protecting you. Instead, it's looked through the lens of how do we hold on to the power that we have we meet in this office, but also me in this community, and how do we expand that power so that we keep our power for a very long time and we use it to tell other people how to live their lives.
Yeah, the legislating that you do, explain to us what that sort of centralized legislation means. So is that involved in getting Democrats elected at the state level? Is that helping to find candidates? I mean, what does that look like?
The great question we are the party committee, the Political Committee that is looking across all of these legislative elections, and so we are supporters and tieging partners and we share resources right with these campaigns where we can build power.
And so it's everything from supporting candidate recruitment to making sure that we've got the best opportunities to communicate with voters at the door, which is such a cornerstone of our campaigns, those real conversations with voters in the community, to know the paid communication at the very end. And I think if you folks are interested in learning more, they can head to dealcc dot org. But we are really in it all the way.
Let's talk for a minute about what sort of legislatures, state houses you're looking at now, what states are up, what the landscape looks like where you're hopeful, where you're not hopeful. So first talk to us about what are your kind of focuses right now.
This year there is a lot of overlap with the legislative map and the paths of the presidency and some of these really key states white races. So the states and I think the opportunities are going to feel quite familiar. We've got real opportunities to challenge Republican control in Arizona and in New Hampshire, and we have a need to return our neuro democratic majorities in Michigan in the Pennsylvania House,
and then return that trifecta in Minnesota. And then the sort of third thing is we kind of think both an immediate wrong on the power ladder, if you will, and also kind of long term, we're looking at places where we can secure a democratic governor's veto power, understanding how important that is in Kansas and in Wisconsin and in North Carolina. And then we've got a list of places where we're really looking to gain ground.
So I want to like really drill down on this because you are the person to talk about this, and so I want a lot of our listeners are sitting there watching Donald Trump really freaked out. I think if our listeners are anything like my husband completely freaked out, so I think they want to hear exactly what this plan is. So the state legislatures that need to that can be one are ones like Arizona, right that that could be.
Flipped, that is exactly right, yep, where the Republicans in control are vulnerable, and we believe that Democrats have the greatest opportunity in twenty twenty four to create a democratic majority.
And so Arizona has a democratic governor and a democratic Secretary of State and a democratic age. So he has three Democrats there, but the state House is still Republican. And when you have a Republican state house, especially a lot of these Republicans, they tend to do a lot of things that maybe Democrats wouldn't do to hold on to power.
Right, Yes, that's right. And so in Arizona, the governor, Governor Hobbs, who is a former legislator herself.
Right, and you'll remember she won against Carrie Lake, who had made it clear that she did not believe in in democracy the way we've done it all this time.
For it all.
Yes, that is exactly right. So she is a former legislator now the governor, and her power is different with a Republican. Her power in being able to proactively execute her vision for Arizona to make change is different with a Republican legislature. They have to work together and she does not have an ability to proactively do things. Now, she can obviously use her power in a lot of regulatory ways, and there's a lot that she can do, but she does not have full power because she does
not have this state legislature. They are Republicans.
I just want people to completely understand the situation here. If you can flip the state legislature in Arizona, you can do things like pre school breakfasts for public school kids.
Yes, it is exactly what happened in Minnesota and Michigan. That is the result of creating democratic power and creating new democratic majorities in a state, and Arizona would be the next one of those.
So codify row free school breakfast, that kind of thing. You'll be able to do that. New Hampshire also has a mixed state house, right.
They're all Republicans right now, there's going to be an open governor's race, and the House is an enormous legislative body. It's four hundred people in the New Hampshire House, which is wild given the size of the state. We are really close to a majority there, and I think that the New Hampshire Senate is also going to put up a really good fight as we move through this election. Okay, so New Hampshire, Arizona, those are the greatest places right now to create new majorities.
Explain to us your second theory of the case when it comes to preventing super majorities, because that's a really important idea that I don't know that people quite understand.
Yeah, So using North Carolina as an example to sort of launch us into what the opportunities are in twenty twenty four. In twenty twenty three, there was a party switcher who gave Republicans the super majority.
Ran as a Democrat but changed as soon as she got elected.
That's right, she changed over the summer, and that gave Republicans the power to override the governor's veto.
There, Christen Cinema, Yes, because the governor is is actually a Democrat.
Yes, Governor Cooper. So Governor Cooper in that moment lost the veto pen which meant that all of the abortion bands that had come to his desk he could veto until that moment. And when Republicans gained that power, that ability to override his veto, they moved an abortion ban
and he was unable to veto it. So when we think about how to build power in the states, and truly what makes legislative elections and work in the state so interesting is you've got these different levers that you can think about as you're building towards the pinnacle of power, which is a democratic trifectam. So we want to make sure re elected governors in Kansas Governor Kelly and in Wisconsin Governor Evers that they have the veto pun. And
then in North Carolina there's an open governor's race. We're going to believe very strongly that we're going to return a governor to North Carolina democratic governor. We want them to come in with that veto pen because the legislature is so harmful under their Republican control. And so that is the how we're wrong by which we are looking in twenty twenty four.
Right makes a lot of sense New Hampshire, Arizona. And then the three sort of fighting against the supermajority states.
Are North Carolina, Kansas, Wisconsin, all.
State houses with Democratic governors who are being foiled by Republican state electeds who want to strip them of power. Yes, Heather Williams, thank you so much for joining us. I hope you'll come back.
Thank you so much. I loved it.
No moment ou Jesse canon my junk fast. You know, it's like one of Trump's favorite things to do. Is like a little bit of like, let me back out of this dumb thing I did when I realized I'm back into a corner and try to weasel his way out of it with some really inept language.
What are you seeing here with that today?
I don't know if you know this, but Trump is king, and so he needs to be able to shoot someone on for the avenue. His supporters already feel that it's not a bad thing perhaps to be doing, but Trump would really like it if the law also let him do that. He's working on it. So that is what Trump is bringing the Supreme Court his reign of kingness. And for that, Donald Trump, considering himself king is our moment. Offucker.
That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.