Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, where we discuss the top political headlines with some of today's best minds. And a new Gallup poll says that only eighteen percent of eighteen to thirty four year olds are proud to be an American. What a show we have for you today, A show of shows. Inside elections. Jacob Rubashkin analyzes the latest polling in the Republican primary.
Then we'll talk to Ohio Capital Journal editor in chief David DeWitt about Ohio's Prop one and it's huge implications. But first we have the host of the time of monsters, the nation's G Tier. Welcome back to Fast Politics, frequent flyer, close personal friend, G Tier and future husband a future husband. Let us know, I forget, Yes, we will enjoy having six kids.
That's right.
That's nothing better than a blended family of six kids. And little kids the best because I haven't raised little kids in me or five years.
It's like the pretty bunch, But with politics.
Jeet, when you look down on US Americans from Canada and you notice the double entendre here, you're welcome. I mean, how fucked do we seem?
I'd say fairly So what I always tell Americans is that it's a global struggle, right, Like there's a lot of these battles against fascism are happening all over the world. The United States, I mean, I would give it, US are a middling grade, Like it's not maybe doing as well as New Zealand, say, but it's better than.
You know, some of the European countries.
You know, exactly, we're better off than Italy.
Congratulations, you don't have a you know, Bussolini's granddaughter or whatever, right exactly. In the governments, I'm trying to be like not a dumer. I think there's like, you know, obviously big serious problems, you know, not least of which is how that is a two party system and one of the major parties is like insane and so as I always say, it's like Russian U liit.
At some point the bullet.
Is going to come up.
So this is what happened in twenty sixteen and will happened in the future. Just to me, that's like the big solvable problem, I mean, the short term solutions you can try to work, and you should be working to make sure that the Republicans don't come back to power.
Anytime soon.
But I mean, I think that is the problem.
Like that right, the Republicans have brain worms?
Yeah, the authoritarian takeover of the Republican Party.
Yeah, like because yeah, so you know you can't have a normal government at that point.
I'm going to read you something right now, because I love to read and I think it's like, really quite smart. It's from the Discourse blog. Pretending like Trump isn't going to absolutely dog walk the entire GOP playing field into oblivion for the next year makes a degree of craven sense, But that doesn't mean it's actually worth taking seriously. In the year twenty twenty three, get fucking real, the Republican Party will nominate Trump for each and every election for
the rest of its life and after. And don't be too shocked if you see Donnie wheeling out his deer departed Dad's coffin onto the twenty thirty six R and D stage to accept the nomination on his behalf discuss.
Yeah, no, that's right.
I do see a sort of weekend for Bernie fus here, But that was Bernie weekend. We can get Bernie, right, we can at at Donnie's I think it's absolutely the
case that. I mean, the thing is spectraly like, no sitting president has ever lost the nomination for a party in like, you know, well over a century, and Trump, in the eyes of the Republicans is a sitting president, right Like, a majority of Republicans think that he won the twenty twenty elections, you will be the nominee, and if he loses, they're still sayings that you want, so you basically have I mean structurally, what that means is you're going to have a country with people living in
two sets of reality. There'll be people who actually know what's happening and are realizing that like Trump lost the election,
and they're a sizeable part of the population. They live in this alternative reality where like he's still president, right like, and I don't know, maybe you could create some sort of Truman show on a vass scale where they can have like Fox News say, like President Trump as you know, like fanned critical race theory and he is dangerous to have a country where a big chunk I wouldn't say it's half I actually think it's maybe thirty percent of the population, but live in an alternative reality.
Yeah, I mean, the whole idea that Trump will stop running when he loses. If he loses, seems kind of nuts. Do you agree or disagree that the incredibly craven third party ploy on the part of Republican donors and the push for it RFK Junior whatever that is and Cornell West is all just because they know Trump can't win.
Basically, I agree with that. I think more with RFK than Cornell West.
They're not quite the same. Cornell West is coming from tradition. You know, you can agree or disagree with it. But I mean there is this, you know, like Ralph Nader type politics that thinks the two party system is loopy and you have to party change. Yet I mean there's like just abundant evidence that RFK Junior is being promoted
by the Republican Party as a sort of gambit. And I have to say this is like a kind of all the tactic of Roger Stone in particular, like like he's always been kind of interested in promoting like third parties as a way of helping Republicans out. He has a sort of history of that. I'm not sure it's going to work at all. I mean, I just think the thing we were seeing is that RFK Junior is like Ron de Sandas in the sense that the more people see him, you know, the less they like him,
you know. And then there might have been people who are like theoretically like, oh you know Robert Kennedy, Oh I remember that guy? They fixed his blood? Would I guess are? You know? It's just like like people, you know, they remember they am Azer nostalgic Fundus or the Kennedy name. And I do want, like maybe the Democrats to be running someone younger. But I mean, like when people see what rf K Junior is, especially Democrats, I mean like he's running in the wrong primary.
Well, he wants to seal the border. He's very excited to seal the border.
That's right, That's why.
So I don't know what sort of language one can use, but there is a sort of erminent politic associated with Rogers on evolving rodents and their sexual activity.
You can say it here.
I can say, okay, so yeah, I mean, yeah, let's let's be real. This is a rat fucking operation.
And you know, I mean I also think that it is pretty interesting if we're just gonna do you know, we're still like a month out or a little less than a month out from this Republican debate. Trump has said he wasn't going to be in it. Then Trump said he would be in it, and then Kelly and Conway the famous my my friend and yours not my friend, but somebody's round.
She's going to be like the Rate of Honor had our wedding. So I just want to be.
Lad she's not. Kellyan said the other day on Fox News that they should keep the center podium warm for Donald Trump. So it seems very likely he's going to be at this debate. And I think an important thing that none of us remember from season one of this incredibly fucked up and political meltdown was that actually during season one, Trump is a very even though he's so disjointed and so crazy, she's very good at these debates.
Oh absolutely.
I mean I feel a lot of guilt because I actually enjoyed those debates because you have absolutely destroyed Jabs and Ted Cruz and all the others. I mean, he's the thing is he's a television professional, right, Like this is the one job he's actually had. He'sed to be a reality show. Oh he's just you know, like very good, and he has a kind of humor that translates well on TV. So yeah, I think, like, why wouldn't he do it, especially so it's like, you know, like he's
like he's holding his lead. The Santus is already crumpling. Like I actually, you know, Natural Review had this sort of saying, well, if he take Trump out of the equation, run de Santus is clearly the leader, Like well, yeah, but that's not the way.
These things work.
And secondly, even if you say the Santus is the leader, he's actually like following, like like the people are like becoming warrigasted in alternatives to Scott in particular.
So I just think, I.
Think, yeah, like doing the debate would be a good thing for Trump not just because he can dominate over other people, but I think because if he does the debate and he can sort of like you know, very easily bully ron descentis even if people don't become more pro Trump, I think that'll be like the you know, the knockout blow, like like Dessanta's is already like so weak, but that will be the knockout blow, and that that that is good for Trump, Like people will start looking
at all the other candidates and that's the end of the race, you know.
But it is interesting to me when you think about if we're talking about Ron DeSantis, this idea that somehow an entire party that has been touching the third rail of Republican politics, fully embracing George Wallace style racism, fully embracing the kind of nativism and anti anti anti Dad crew, is now going to nominate someone black.
Discuss Yeah, I don't see that's going to happen. And actually I think that what you historically in the last few election cycles, what you've had is like, briefly a black candidate will start doing well in the Republican primary. It happened with Hermeran Kane, it happened with Ben Carson. Canan Carson both enjoyed this kind of like bomb because there are enough Republications who think like and it's basically trolling, like they think like, oh, we'll nominate a black candidate
and then we'll really own the Libs. And unfortunately these candidates always quickly diminished because you get another set of Republicans say, wait a minute, we're nominating a black candidate.
Like that's not what I find out on the Republican Party for.
Our whole thing is racism.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So Trump had like no problem at all finishing off Ben Carson, and I'm assuming the same thing will happen with the Scott And I actually don't think Scott has even running to president. He's running to be like Trump's vice president Jill nominee.
Yeah no, no, I mean I think that's right. And can we just talk for a minute about the idea of running to be Donald Trump's vice presidential nominee? What happened to Donald Trump's other vice presidential nominee?
Yeah? No, it does seem like a weird positioned to have some of you listeners.
I'd remember the movie Spinal Tap, where the drummer of the bandos dies and after a while you wonder, like, why would someone want to be a drummer on spinal Tap? Like why would you want to be the VP a Trump campaign? Where like, I think your only best case scenario is that the call off the mob that he's
incited to kill you at the last minute. It doesn't seem like a position with a lot of future in it, except that you know, these are people who are still following traditional political career paths, and in some way that's what Pennce did right, like he you know, he had alters the qualms about Trump, you know, especially I think it is why they were parted, that his wife didn't like Trump at all and because of Trump's lewdness and
general poorishness. But I mean, like Pennce thought, well, I'll be VP and then now have a clear path to be the presidential nominee or Trump will die. You know, like we've just seen that does not work. It's we're not a new or no, we're not in Kansas anymore. This is like you're being the vice president of the Wicked Witch of the last You're one of the flying monkeys. That is what being the VP is, and that's what
working for Trump is. You're getting a job as a fighting monkey and that's not a good position.
Yeah, but it does seem that people still want it. Do you think that people want power more than they have good judgment?
Well, yeah, that's exactly what it is.
And I mean that's the whole thing with the Republican Party, right, like that is the whole deal that they made. I mean, you mentioned Megan Kelly just now. I mean, like think about like how Trump umulated her and like you know, ended up like destroying her career because that was the beginning of our severance from Fox. But now she's all best buddies again with Trump. So as long as.
Trump is a power was in the party.
As long as he's like the most popular person in the Republican Party, a lot of people, you know, like Trump could do anything to them. He can humiliate them, you know, he can insult their wives as he did with them, was going to like make up with him, and they're always gonna like.
Suck up to him.
The best one can say is, at least it's funny. You know, it's squalid and bad for democracy, and you know, it could be the end of the Republic. But man, did we have some laughs.
Yeah, it could be the end of democracy. But at least we had fun and good for the brand. I want to talk to you. Speaking of branding, we have four minutes to talk about X.
Yeah, the Elon's latest adventure.
Yes yeah, I mean, like, like Musk is sort of making me rethink one of my long held positions, which is on a drug decriminalization.
Bad.
This is true, Like maybe it does actually Harvey or judge about Twitter doesn't have a lot going for it, you know, like it never made money and was losing money, but at least it was a very well known brand, Like it's something everyone kind of knew was about it, and it had an iconic you know, like bird image, and you're placing it with like a letter, you know, and apparently like the ex is already trademark, which I don't even understand how that's possible, Like how can you
trademark a letter like but but apparently you can. But musk kasm, He's like created a trademark that someone else owns, you know, like one of many bad, bad decisions I need to think people forget is you know, like he never really wanted to own Twitter, Like I know, people have this Machiavelian theory that he's trying to destroy this the site, like like he actually was forced to buy Twitter because you know, like he had made a joke offer and then the court said, well, you know you
actually made that offer, right, yeah, exactly, you know you actually have to like fulfill your obligation.
It's he as he went to Cork.
To like not by Twitter and lost that was made to buy Twitter, and now I feel like he's like, you know a kind of hopped up Simpson like, you know, like I'm just gonna take this thing down with people.
Yeah, no, no, for sure. I mean that's what we're seeing is a complete and utter you know, a man who is just cannot ever say uncle. And for that, you know, we'll watch a play out a jet here. I hope you will come back.
I'm always happy to be back, and in fact, I'm just working on our wedding invitations right now.
So. Jacob Rubashkan is an analyst and reporter for Inside Elections. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Jacob.
Rubaskan, Yeah, thanks for having me.
Let's first talk about the insane top primary. We just have to keep pretending that there's a chance someone else besides Trump will be the nomine.
I don't know if you have to keep pretending, and I think there are a lot of people who have a vested interest in keeping pretending. But the picture is increasingly clear as we get, you know, just a couple of days away, a couple weeks away from this first debate.
Who is in the driver's.
Seat and who has a lot of work to do if they want to remain or enter the conversation.
One of the things that I think is maybe an underreported story here, which is not necessarily good. I'm not saying this is good. I'm not happy about it, but is that it does strike me that Trump has actually really professionalized his organization since twenty fifteen.
Yeah, I mean, I think when you look back to the kind of campaign that he was running in those very early days before most people took him seriously. Right there, there were sixteen candidates in the race, and probably a dozen of them had a better claim to the professionals in the industry, the people who you know, had run presidential campaigns before, had run any kind of campaign before
at scale. You know, they were signing up with the jebs and the Marco Rubio's and Scott Walker's and Bobby Jindall's and you know everyone else who was in that race had the connections and had the relationships with the political folks that knew how to run these races. And so that's why, you know, we forget now. But there was a real concerted effort to deny Trump at the convention, use some you know, funky delegate math to figure out a way to see if they could nominate someone else.
And since he became president in twenty seventeen, right, he has gotten access to the cream of the crop of Republican you know, political strategists as it were, because the rest of the party fell in line behind him. So really, you know, in the twenty twenty election, he had access to a level of resources that he just never had before.
And as he heads into twenty twenty four, rights he's shedded some of those, right, some of those people have gone to work for other candidates Ron DeSantis among others, But he still has access to the kind of infrastructure operation that his campaign only could have dreamed of when they were first starting out in those early days and been twenty fifteen.
But it's so funny because it's like DeSantis, who was absolutely the favorite of tech bros everywhere and wealthy people who maybe didn't have a great sense of the importance of personality and the presidential races. I mean, he is now hemorrhaging people. I mean he has had to really scale back his whole campaign and everything.
And yeah, I mean the launch of the DeSantis campaign has really been kind of beguiling, and I think I'm I'm not the only one who has been kind of confused at how they've been handling things, But kind of
from the beginning. You know, they had this huge build up in the kind of before and really after the twenty twenty two mid terms where there really was this moment when a lot of Republicans woke up, you know, the day after the red wave failed to materialize, and they said, you know, Trump got involved in all these races, maybe he led us a story, Maybe it is time to start looking for new leadership. And that was the moment. We saw a lot of polling come out that actually
had DeSantis tied or even ahead of Trump nationally. People clearly were looking for something different, and rather than try and capture that momentum when it emerged organically, you know, rather than seizing the moment when it appeared to him, what we saw was DeSantis kind of take a step back and refuse not just to launch a presidential campaign, but to really even go after Trump in a substantive way.
And wait, you know, another six months. I mean, he doesn't really get into the race until May, and by then you've got other candidates in the race, Nikki Haley, Tim Scott, a number of you know, lower tier candidates. He launches with this Twitter spaces kind of tobop off right. And I think, you know, it's been interesting that when he did that, it was this question of you know, what is what is the point of doing that?
Is it to cozy up to Musk?
And I think ultimately what we've seen over the last eight weeks of the campaign is this is just a very online campaign.
Right.
They've been dealing with the fallout the last couple of days of these videos that they've been put out.
This is just this is.
A campaign that clearly paid too much attention to Twitter and bought into the notion that this was the pathway to relevance in a Republican primary. And you know, Trump is out there handing out blizzards of dairy Queen and you know, doing all the things that he's been doing for the last eight years that have kept him front and center in the party.
This idea that Twitter is not real life was so I mean, during that twenty twenty election and the twenty nineteen primaries, we were told so many times by more mainstream pundits that they, you know, I'm talking about the kind of tragically centrist, the profoundly centrist, by those guys, that Twitter is not real life and that the woke left is only you know, relevant on Twitter, and it turns out that the far right right is not relevant anywhere.
Yeah.
No, it's a very interesting kind of mirror image of what we saw in that Democratic presidential primary a couple
of years ago. I mean, I know you have Ron Klain on fairly often, and he would be the first guy to tell you back in that twenty twenty primary, Twitter wasn't real life, right, you know, if you remember that New York Times endorsement kind of miniseries that they did where they had all those those interview clips, and I remember talking aroun it around that time, and he told me, he said, the most important thing we got out of there was not in the room with the
editorial board. It was that clip of the video with the guard and the elevator that she was ten times or one hundred times the validator that anyone in that
editorial board room what was going to be. And so, you know, I think that we're now seeing kind of the bizarro world inverse of that happened with the Deysantis campaign, where they have latched onto in their online presence a very different sector of the online community, but one that clearly is also unpalatable to a larger electorate that they care about things and talk about things that rank and file Republican primary voters just don't seem to latch onto in a substantive way.
Yeah, Jackie the elevator woman was just delighted by Biden and said, this is the candidate that I'm going to support, And video of them together is really quite moving. But it's also just such an important realization. I mean, I think of this a lot because I live in a city with a mayor who I think sucks. You need people to elect you, and like, we get so high minded in the punditry world that we forget that this is actually about people voting, you know, people wanting to
give you their vote. And I think that's really like, you know, one of the things that Biden is really good at it is a really good retail politician.
Yeah.
And I think that one of the things that DeSantis really had going for him, right, One of the strengths of his campaign before he launched, and maybe the moment of his launch, was that he had this strength among voters who really were desperate for an alternative for Trump and not just kind of your never or trumpers in the party that have, you know, small dwindling numbers, but there were a fair number. Whether even if it was thirty or forty percent, that's still a substantial portion of
voters who were looking for an alternative. And because he was either a blank slate or all they knew about him was he had just won Florida by twenty points, that was appealing to them. As they've gotten to know him more, he has become less appealing. So he has not been able to turn that initial kind of appeal an opportunity into into real support. He hasn't given those people something to latch onto beyond the fact that he's
not Trump. So if you look at his image ratings, right, I mean, he is unpopular now nationwide in a way that he was not unpopular when he first came on the national scene in twenty twenty two. His favorability rating has basically remained unchanged, and as more people have gone to know him, his unfavorability rating has gone up. Right, So the more people are hearing about him, the less
they're liking him. And that's just a dangerous place to be for any candidate, let alone one who is trying to make this electability argument against Trump in a Republican primary.
Yeah, for sure. Let's just talk for another minute about what it looks like in this Republican primary. We're going to see a Republican primary debate, We're going to see Trump, We're going to see a bunch of candidates. Now over the next year, we're going to start seeing It's a very good Senate map for Republicans, but they have these candidates who are these trumpy candidates. Tell me what you think twenty twenty three is going to look like and where you are with us?
Well, look, I think that on the presidential side, of course, the debates are the best opportunity that almost any of these candidates are going to get to step out into the limelight and try and make their mark.
Trump is going to crush them all.
Well if he shows up, right, and I think.
Right, yeah, I mean, the thing that is so shocking about him is that he's really a good debater.
He has a commanding presence, right, He was able to and because of the way the debates kind of coincided with, you know, his entrance in twenty sixteen and the polling there, he was able to have that center stage spot on lock from the very beginning.
And you know, I.
Truly think if he had been over at the periphery in those first couple of debates, it would have been a different kind of experience for him. But the fact that he came in as the front runner and as the center of attention. When he has given that power, he just wields it so effectively against all of these guys. And those were no slouches on the debate stage back
in twenty fifteen. I mean you had current and former governors of swing states, Democratic States, Republican states, senators, congressman, you know, legit contenders there, and he kind.
Of bulldozed through all of them.
The only candidate who ever really gave Trump a run for his money in that kind of pre voting stage was Ben Carson, right, who had a very similar kind of appeal to voters, and that he as an outsider coming at it from a different angle. So no, I think that you know, on the presidential side, there isn't a ton of suspense here at the moment.
Tell me what you're watching with this Senate map.
Yeah, so you know Democrats have a fifty or fifty one seat majority, depending on how you want to count Kirsten Cinema.
And see, you know you're a terrible Democrat when depending on how you want to count Christin Cinema continue, Yes.
So, I mean, I think the more important thing, right is, like Republicans have forty nine seats, right, and they either need to get to fifty plus the White House or they need to get to fifty one regardless of what happens with the White House to win the majority. They are laser focused on three states, right, They're focused on West Virginia, Ohio, and Montana. And Republicans really believe that the path to the majority runs back through winning two
of those three, right and everything else. You know, they think that they have varying degrees of opportunity in another seven or eight states, but the path to the majority is flipping that West Virginia seat and flipping one of Montana or Ohio. I think West Virginia is probably their best shot. It's just such a Republican state. Even if Joe Manchin does run again, he's going to have a really tough race on his hands, certainly the toughest race
he's ever had to run in that state. You know, I think John Tester in Montana and Shared Brown in Ohio or in slightly better position, Shared Brown.
I have trouble imagining Shared Brown not being able to eke it out again.
Yeah, I mean, I think it really comes down to, you know, just how much his Ohio shifted politically right.
We have seen the.
State move pretty considerably, you know, I think, Look, we saw a close competitive Senate race in Ohio this last year between Tim Ryan and Jade Vance. And you know, Tim Ryan ran very much in the mold of Shared. He didn't have as much money as Shared will, and he was running in a you know, not a great year.
He's no Shared though. I mean I like him just fine, but he's no Shared. But certainly, I mean, West Virginia seems almost unwinnable for Democrats.
Yeah, I mean it is. It is real tough sledding there. This is a state that Trump could win by forty points if he's the nomine You know, a seventy thirty victory isn't really out of the question. And you know, Joe Manchin has a particular appeal in the state that no other Democrat has. You know, he has he has shown that before, you know, thinking back to twenty eighteen, you know, he won that race. Well, Claire mccaskell and
Bill Nelson and Joe Donnelly and Heidi Hidekamp. We're losing races and you know, states that were not nearly as Republican. But you know, it's going to be really tough, especially if he's facing off against Jim Justice, who's the incumbent Republican governor. He's running in that Senate primary. He's very popular in the state, and so.
He owned the Greenbriar and has an enormous dog, yes, and more importantly called the baby Girl.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think she's you know, in terms of his you know, the assets he brings to the table there, she's certainly number one.
I think the Greenbrier is a distant second on there.
But baby Dog, I'm sorry, Jesse has fact checked me once again. Baby dog. Yeah, he couldn't come up with a name. Baby dog was the name. And anyway, yes, it's true, but that's true. But there's also going to be some really interesting stuff happening in this Lest you think this is a rerun. For example, Cinema is up for reelection. I mean, talk to me about that race.
Oh gosh. Senate races are always complicated. Some of them are more straightforward, some of them are just a complete mess. And this definitely falls into the complete mess category. You know, she's up for reelection. She has not said what she plans to do, whether she's going to run as an independent, or whether she's gonna, you know, hang it up after one term in the Senate. On the other side, three sides. On one of the other sides, you've got Reuben Diego,
who's basically clear the Democratic field. You know, he's raising a lot of money, he's got grassroots support. And then for Republicans, you've got Carrie Lake kind of freezing their field as well.
You know, she has she's on a book tour.
She's still you know, trying to litigate claiming she's the real governor of Arizona.
She hangs out at mar A Lago.
Didn't Trump say that she was spending too much time in Lago?
There was some reporting that that people in Trump's orbit were getting a little frustrated with how much time she was spending there. I think some people clearly think she's angling for a VP slot, but she's really freezing their field. I think if she runs for Senate, she'll probably be the nominee. She's very popular still among the base there. If she doesn't run, it'll be a messy primary. We might see Blake Masters come back from last.
Year, another great candidate. I mean, that is the Trump's big problem, right, We're going to do a lightning round. Rick Scott seems like he's pretty safe, right, I mean.
Yeah, but the Democrats need a candidate.
If they can get a credible candidate who can raise a lot of money, preferably one who you know, speaks Spanish and can try and club back some territory South Florida. Maybe that gets interesting, but at the moment it's it's not really a focus.
Angus King. He's an independent. It's Maine. You think that's fine, right.
Yeah, especially you know Angus King has won majorities in three way races before, and now Maine has ranked choice voting.
So that's right, he'll be able.
To whatever Democrat appears on the ballot and gets fifteen percent of the vote, he'll scoop that fifteen percent up in the second round.
Makes it very difficult for Republican to beat him.
Debbie Stabna is not running. There's a primary in Michigan. Two seconds on that, we had at least Slotkin on the podcast.
Yeah, I think Slotkin's definitely the favorite. You know, incumbent congresswoman has won tough races, raising a lot of money, compelling bio fellow Cornell grad.
But it remains to be seen how much of.
A real primary Hill Harper, the actor gives her. That could be one it you know, turns into something a little more complicated. It could be very straightforward for her. Republicans need a candidate. There are a couple of names floating out there, but until they.
Get they're just going to run John James again.
I think he is going to take a pass. Believe it or not.
I think he's a poor guy. It just run him every year.
What I've heard is, you know, he's if he's going to run for another office in the near future, it's going to be for governor in two years when that seat opens up, rather than running for Senate again. I think they'd love to get Peter Meyer, the former congressman from Western Michigan.
But it's good luck.
I mean, you can't win a primary if you voted to impeach Trump, which he did.
And Trump hates him. Please, Jacob, we need you to come back as this trauma unfold. It's really interesting. Thank you.
Yeah, thanks anytime.
Hi.
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David de Witt is the editor in chief of the Ohio Capital Journal. Welcome to Fast Politics, David, Thank you so much, Balie.
I appreciate you having me on.
Tell us what your job description is, what you do and where you based.
Yeah.
So, I'm based in Columbus, Ohio, and I'm the editor in chief and opinion columnists for a publication called Ohio Capital Journal. We're a five ZHO one C three nonprofit that's part of the State's Newsroom network, which is up in about thirty seven states now. And what State's Newsroom is is we've built over the last four or five years.
To be in thirty seven states. We're going to be up in forty by the end of next year, I believe.
And the idea behind this nonprofit model for state capital coverage is that as newspapers have closed and consolidated throughout the country, a lot of the times state house press corps have been really hit hard by that they've lost
a lot of reporters. So State's Newsroom's mission is to put teams of reporters back into our state capitals to cover state government with a focus on policy and impact, and to offer up our news stories and commentary for free, no pop ups, no paywalls, no ads, but also free republications, so we get republished in a wide variety of local
news alternatives, independence TV stations around Ohio as well. And the idea is just to bring really good reporting back into state governments, to draw the lines between what state government's doing, what they're not doing in some cases, and how it really impacts people's lives. So we have a team of five reporters, including four full time reporters for OCJ, plus a TV news partnership, and then myself and a couple other regular columnists.
One of the things that your Ohio based publication does is it focuses on bringing accountability to what your Ohio government is doing. And this kind of thing gets lost if there's no local news. So when these big hedge funds bought up all of the local newspapers, and you know, some became right wing sites, some became this, some became that. When that happened, a lot of these state governments lost accountability.
So what is happening in Ohio right now could perhaps be considered to be a sort of the result of that. Talk us through what's happening in Ohio right now.
Yeah, So Ohio on August eighth, thear has a historic election. It's a battle over majority voter power over our Ohio constitution. We've had this majority voter power over the Ohio Constitution since nineteen twelve when we had an Ohio Constitutional Convention. And at the time, Ohio government was filled with corruption and exploitation and basically it wasn't responsive to the people of Ohio at all.
It was doing the.
Bidding of industrialists and special interests, and so we had this big convention. We had William Jennings Brian come speak to the convention. We had Teddy Roosevelt come speak to the convention, and they advocated for the citizen ballot referendum and initiative allowing citizens to gather petition signatures, introduce amendments and referendums, and have those passed by a majority of voters.
Teddy Roosevelt's speech has been particularly instructive and I've republished it in full at ohiocapital journal dot com where he talks about when a government becomes misrepresentative of its people, the people need to have the power to do something about it. And that's what the whole basis for this power was, and we've had that for one hundred and eleven years. Ohio voters have been incredibly responsible with this power. The legislature has introduced the vast majority of amendments that
have been made to the Ohio Constitution. Citizens introduced about seventy one over the past to one hundred eleven years, and they only passed nineteen of them. That's a twenty six point something twenty seven percent passage rate. So Ohio citizen groups have been thoughtful about what they've brought and Ohio voters have been incredibly thoughtful about what they've passed to put into our Ohio constitution. But now Ohio is in
a very unique situation. We have had a jerrymandered legislature since twenty eleven, since Republicans used a program called red Map and they had a secret hotel bunker in downtown Columbus to all these jerrymandered maps that they forced on
Ohios for ten years because they were so bad. In twenty fifteen, Ohio voters passed redistricting reform for our state house districts with more than seventy one percent of the vote, and then in twenty eighteen, we passed redistricting for our congressional districts with nearly seventy five percent of the vote.
That redistricting reform was supposed to go in place after the twenty twenty census, but instead of actually following the voter's wishes and stopping their jerrymandering, Ohio Republicans controlled the Ohio Redistricting Commission. Because voters didn't put in an independent commission, they left politicians still in charge of the process, and Republicans used their control of the process to once again jerrymannder Ohio's congressional and state house districts, and it was
struck down by the Ohio Supreme Court. It was struck down five times for the state house districts and twice for the congressional districts, and an anti abortion lobbyist in Ohio sued to the federal courts to override the Ohio Supreme Court when it came to state house redistricting. Two Trump judges then said they didn't say that Ohio's maps were not district and this was a bipartisan Ohio Supreme Court that ruled these jerrymandered. They didn't say it wasn't jerrymandered.
The federal judges they said that Ohio voters still had to use them in twenty twenty two, and then we had to go through the redistricting process again. And so in twenty twenty two, Ohio voters were forced to go to the polls and vote under jerrymandered, unconstitutional maps and Ohio Republicans won't even bigger supermajorities in both chambers of
the Ohio State House. And at the same time, at the end of the twenty twenty two election cycle, some polls started coming out showing that about fifty nine percent of Ohio voter support putting abortion rights into our Ohio constitution. And this was after the Dobbs decision, and we saw in other states like Michigan and Kansas and other places that voters were passing abortion rights amendments with fifty six
percent of the vote fifty seven fifty nine percent. And so right after that poll came out, the Ohio Republican Secretary of State Frank LeRose and some lawmakers in the Ohio State House introduced a proposal to raise the threshold for passing constitutional amendments from a simple majority fifty percent plus one to a sixty percent majorities sixty percent plus one.
And they also proposed to make it so then instead of gathering signatures from forty four out of eighty eight counties, which was already the most difficult bar to pass for citizen groups trying to put an amendment proposal forward, they now say you have to gather them from all eighty eight counties. This is their proposal under Issue one on August eighth, So sixty one sixty percent and then all
eighty eight counties. But what that would do effectively the eighty eight county requirement would destroy the ability of grassroots citizens to be able to bring constitutional amendments. Only the most wealthy and well resourced special interest groups would be able to successfully get a proposed amendment on the ballot in the first place. And then the sixty percent idea, which clearly was cognizant of the polls regarding the abortion
rights Amendment. It is to set the bar so that any forty percent minority can veto anything that a majority of Ohioans want. And so they originally said this had
nothing to do with abortion. Frank the Rose tried to deny it, and fast forward seven months later and he is literally on the campaign trail, campaigning with the same anti abortion lobbyists who have helped force Jerry mannering on Ohio maps and telling Republican County Party dinners this is quote one hundred percent about the abortion amendment in November.
And so we're at a situation now where for them it is very much about this abortion issue and trying to stop the abortion rights Amendment in November, but they're actually attacking one hundred and eleven years of majority rule that would have impacts on almost every issue you could think of so further anti Jerry mannering reforms number one, but also it would impact bond issues, it would impact
property taxes, it would impact all kinds of things. One one notable thing is the in nineteen twelve of the voter's pass we gave ourselves this ability to bring citizen initiatives and amendments in the first place with fifty seven point five percent of the vote. So under Issue one, our whole right to be able to bring these amendments to citizens and have majority rule over our constitution would
have never passed under that sixty percent threshold. So this is a clear historic attack on Ohio voter power and the Ohio Constitution, and they're doing it very cynically to try to move the goalposts rig the game against the November abortion amendment, which a poll just came out this week showing fifty eight percent of Ohio in support.
I just want to slow down for a minute here and talk about how in Ohio you would need a fifty percent threshold to pass a ballot initiative, and now they're trying to raise it to sixty. Correct. These Republicans are doing this. They've pipped a day in the middle of August, this is the only thing on the ballot. Yes, So this is really they've decided that if they hide this thing in August that they can get a.
Past that it was part of their original theory. For instance, in August twenty twenty two, because of the jerrymandering, we had to have a special primary in August and that was seven point nine percent turnout. In November, Ohio lawmakers
actually eliminated August elections. They said they were too expensive with low turnout, and then they turned around and realized that the only way to stop the November abortion rights amendment was to hold it before November, and they didn't get it on the May ballot, and so they brought back August elections after just eliminating them for this special proposal to attack voter power in the Ohio constitution, doing it because they saint and they the game away on
this when originally the guy who introduced it, the state rep named Brian Stewart, said we don't want special interest putting attacks on our constitution in sleepy May primaries, and then he couldn't get his proposal on a sleepy May primary, so they tried to put it on a sleepy August ballot.
Don't you think ultimately the goal here was to get this vote in a time when the least possible people would show up.
Oh.
Absolutely, that was their idea.
They wanted.
I mean, if you use twenty twenty two, they wanted seven point nine percent of voters to come out and say that forty percent of voters got to make decisions for one hundred percent of voters. That's the essence of what they were trying to accomplish here.
So what I think is interesting about this is that in New York City we have a somewhat flawed system ourselves. And if you want to primary a member of Congress, which would the only way to get rid of them, he is a Democratic primary. Those Democratic primaries tend to happen in August too. So it's clearly these politicians know that August is the time. If you want to hold a vote that very few people show up for, August is the time to do it.
Oh yeah, absolutely. People are on summer vacation, they're not really thinking about elections. It's a perfect time to try to slip one past a lot of voters, and in this case, this one that they're trying to slip past is literally a century attack on voter power.
It's historic.
There's never been constitutional question. This fundamentally important for Ohioans, and they're holding it in an August election where they were hoping a lot of people weren't paying attention. But so far, it feels like a lot of people are.
So let's talk about that. Are people in Ohio paying attention?
Yeah?
Well, so we've had our early voting numbers and they're almost as big as the November twenty twenty two election. People are work up about this, and we have two hundred and forty bipartisan groups that have aligned against this. We have four bipartisan former governors, Ted Strickland, Bob Taff, John Kasik, and Dick Celeste have all come out against this.
We have five.
Bipartisan former attorneys general who have come out against this. We have everyone from the Fraternal Order of Police to all of the union groups, to all of the good government groups like the League of Women Voters in Common Cause that are nonpartisan. All of them are against this. The only people who are in favor of it. It's
a handful of groups. And you've got the anti abortion lobby, You've got the gun ownership, absolutists, lobby and then you have the Ohio Chamber of Commerce in the Ohio Restaurant Association say that they don't want to see a majority of voters raise the minimum wage and that's about the old people in favor of And you have two hundred forty bipartisan groups, former governors, formers, attorney general, everybody coming out of the woodwork, all of the editorial boards saying
this is wrong. This is an attack on democracy, this is an attack on voters, and this will enshrine special interest lobbyist lawmaker power in the state House.
Thank you so much, David. This was so interesting, Absolutely.
Thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate you shining the spotlight on this.
No moment.
Fuck Jesse Cannon.
My John Fastman.
Ron DeSantis is not getting in literal car accidents.
His campaign is one tell us all about it.
It's pronounced d Santis O D Santis. Sorry, Ron d Santis has had to fire one third of his staff and he's going to press the gas on what works and pump the brakes on what doesn't. Unfortunately, what doesn't work is your negative charisma, candidate. But let's give it another role. After all, it's other people's money. And for that, Ron DeSantis, you are our moment of fuck Ray. That's
it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.