Hi, I'm Mollie John Fast and this is Fast Politics, where we discussed the top political headlines with some of today's best minds. And Donald Trump says he will flee to Venezuela if he loses the election. Audios, we have such a great show for you Today. Whitney Box talks to us about her run against Florida's most mega Congresswoman, Anna Paulina Luna. Then we'll talk to MSNBC contributor Brian Tyler Cohen about his new book, Shameless Republicans, Deliberate Dysfunction,
and the Battle to preserve Democracy. But first we have the host of the time of Monsters, the nation's jeet here. Welcome back to Fast Politics.
Get here, always good to be on.
So vibe shift End of Democracy feels like we may get another couple of years of democracy out of this thing.
Yet even like what does the most pestimistic under like with bideny and thinking he's not getting real to do it. I did take some comfany in the fact that Trump is even at his best polls wasn't clearing fifty percent, was still widely hated, and you know, there was a vast spath of the population that was ready to support the Democrats if they had a candidate people were happy with.
So I think, yeah, I mean I don't want to be like but I think we should also be a little bit cautious about oh yeah, quite too early, Like it's still like a tight race. But I think it's a much more winnable race now than it was a month ago. You can see to the people's wood, people are just a lot happier.
Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And I think, look, Hillary Clinton wouldn't have lost if people hadn't treated her as a fat to complay. I do think it's very very important that when looking at this race, we look at the very very real possibility that Donald Trump could win.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, No, I mean I'd say his chances of winning have gone down. A month ago, I'd say he did a seventy to eighty percent chance of winning. Now I think it's like forty five percent. But that's way too high. It's like, you know, considering what he's gonna do. But but I mean, let's not undersell the positive thing. I mean the Democrats, I mean, I always thought they had a winning message. Now they have the right passenger. They have two right messengers. Things are like
much more positive. The key now is to protect the gains, like protect the people that Kamala Harris has brought back, keep them within the coalition, and that's the way I think to be the main task. Also's Greate is like, you know, there's like a little over eighty days left right like ste So I actually think that helps a lot because I think eighty four days right, Like they're obviously trying to smear Harris, they're trying to smear Tim Walls,
but it takes time. Like with Hillary Clinton they had like twenty five years. Like slagging this woman the patier is like combination of Lady Macbeth and Godzilla. Yeah, I think with Harris and Walds, they're finding a little bit harder to do that time. They're running out of time. I think the optimism is warranted, you know, with the proviso, there's a lot of work to be done.
Yeah, exactly. I mean I think that short election cycle certainly has really helped her. You know, she has that secret sauce too, which is she was in the job or she was vice president, so she had some experience with the job. So she's sort of known, but she's also very careful and has been very careful her whole life, and probably that's good. She was a sex crimes prosecutor, so she knew, you know, that that kind any kind
of information could be used against her. And then also she just is has gotten much much much better and has become a really good, really good speaker, and she was always a really good interviewer because she comes from being a prosecutor.
Yeah. No, I mean I think people have forgotten because her twoenty twenty campaign didn't go Maybe they forgot like how actullently she was just on the Senate floor interrogating witnesses, her real scale and sort of forensic argument. No, and she has a lot of very positive qualities. But also, like I think just the sort of attitude is really important.
I mean, I think a lot of people who even if they hated Trump, we're kind of dreading the idea that it's an election between two you know, quite an old man. This is impressionistic, but I think a lot of people, especially younger people, felt like they're kind of in a country that's in decline, that has no future, that's locked in the past and locked in past battles and I think the whole thing that she and Walls
offer is kind of like freshness. There, there's something new, there's something different, and you know, like even though JD. Vatt's kind of is something new, but he's so locked in past battles. He's so like trying to fight yesterday's war that I think it's really intertsive, like all that stuff about caf ladies, Like it's not just like offensive or whatnot, but it's like it's like retrograde. It's like like we want to bring back a past where we
would get shamed for not having kids. Harris is able to run both as an incumbent but as a change candidate, like offer the stability and continuity you know, she's taking over from Biden, but also like offering like a fresh voice and a possibility of some changes of policy as well. The so called vibe shift. I don't think it's an illusion. I think it's it's based on something real that we're seeing, like in the big rallies and in the money that's coming in.
Right, you have tons of donations, you have first time donors, you have volunteers, you have I mean, you really have a lot of excitement and activity and these kind of things. I do think it's ironic that during this Republican convention they spend so much time running on mental acuity. Trump's spendal acuity and Biden being old and now puts them in an awkward position as they are running themselves the oldest person to ever run for president.
Oh yeah, no, no, not the town is old.
But you know, it's clearly showing the signs of age, which are like kind of invisible during the period when all the debate was about Biden. And it's interesting, polls have shown like the number of people think Trump is too old. He's like going up, you know, like and it's like like when's Trump is the oldest candidate, then that becomes a natural topic of conversation. But also, like, you know, I was really struck by watching both the
press conference and the rally. Can the press conference, he referenced Walls a couple of times, but did actually name it. We said, you know, this Minnesota governor, that guy from Minnesota, and you could clearly tell like he hasn't been able to process this new name. And I have to say it's a fairly simple name. Tim Waltz, you know, in Montana, he did reference Wallts, but you could tell who's reading
from the teleprompter. With the aid of a teleprompter, he can know who the vice Parzila candidate, where the Democrats are, but only with the aid of a teleprompter. He kept on referencing Joe Biden and put forward this fanciful scenario that Biden is angry. I will like at the convention next week, the Democratic Convention, will reassert himself and be ready again. And you can kind of tell this is like a little fantasy of Trump, like if only I
could be running against Biden again. That he was asking the cow in Montana, you know, like what do you prefer sleepy Joe or krooked Joe? And like you're not ready? Who gets Joe Biden?
Joe?
Yeah, but he's not going to be on the vellod Why are you talking about?
But he also talked a lot about Hillary, you know, like if Trump at twenty sixteen was like the Elvis, you know who electrified America, who appeared on Ed Sullivan you know, was a Harvard Jerven new agent politics. Trump right now, within a few years he's become gone from Ed Sullivan Elvis to Las Vegas Elvis. He's the old daughtery Elvis, who has nothing new. Is just like doing a nostalgic tour of his greatest hits, you know, Cricket, Hillary,
Sleepy Joe, and he contrast that with Harris. They're talking about we're not going back, We're going into the future. I think that's a very good contrast for Democrats.
I have a theory about what Trump is saying when he talks about Biden getting pushed out and his sort of fantasy with this. I believe he's saying it because he really wants those divisions in sixteen that helped him become president.
That is the sort of political logic behind it. It's not just yeah, wish fulfillment. He's trying to create a scenario where there is like people in the Democratic Party who feel like they were portrayed and that there was a coup. And then you see not just Trump, but sort of what I would call Trump's fellow travelers, including sadly Glenn Greenwald. We're like really pushing this narrative Jesus. But I have to say there's a couple of differences.
Basically everything, but yes.
Go on, yeah, everything is totally different with Bernie Sanders, you have like really hardcore Bernie.
Well, first of all, I think not even comparable. It's bullshit. I mean, it's just bullshit.
Yeah, it's totally not comparable. What's been striking is the degree to which the Democrats have quickly solidified behind Kamala Harris and like really coalesced. And I know, I know, like before Biden Withdrew, there's like worries that you know, we're gonna have like a devisive primary or what top, but like we saw what happened. None of that happened. But I think thanks to Biden giving the endorsement, gave a strong endorsement, and then like you know, everyone of
significance in the party has coalesced around her. And I think it's partially because the differences between the two parties, which is like the Democrats are not a personality cult, right, We've actually seen like cutemps. I'm sure there are very powerful Republicans that wanted the coup attempt against Trump that we're kind of wishing like something would happen to get him out of the way, or you know, they'd be a twenty fifth Amendment solution or anything, or he would
just go away. But none of that has happened because he actually has this hardcore of the MAGA followers that are the base of the party now and would scream and rage. Nobody ever had that sort of cultic relationship with Joe Biden. Joe Biden was you know, people liked him, who appreciative of stuff he did, but they were you know, they saw him as a politician who was given a job, and then he's got up to the job. They you know, fortunately there's a vice president in place who could take
over the ticket. It's just a fundamental misreading of what the Democratic Party is because I mean, you look at the Democrats, who isn't on Kamala Harris's side, you know, the pretty froze all became KHive like with it, like as the step of a figure.
This is one of my favorite hobby horses. We really saw the Progressives have the centrist Democrats back, and I think some of that was because centrist Democrats did for them in some ways, right.
Biden made certain like horse trading agreements with Bernie Sanders in twenty twenty, and Biden kept to them, and that has really helped solidify the party and unify the party in a way that it wasn't unified in twenty sixteen, but even twenty sixty. I think a lot of that narrative is a little bit over sold in the sense that if you look at the apolle the actual Bernie
Sanders supporters came out for Hillary. I think the problem was like the more marginal voters who are like less frequent voters, who weren't enthusiastic and were alienated by certain things like the email scandal if we could remember that.
You mean the hacking the yeah, yeah, mainstream media out are no longer publishing hacked materials as a drip drip to wait, remind me what did that happen in twenties? Oh wait, sorry, come.
On, yeah, I know. And I have to say, like Ran if you're listening that if you want to leak to me, I will happily release any information that you give me because I think it's in the public interest.
Do you love wiki leaks? Is that what's going on?
I have all one paper of that. Now. My conspiracy theory is that this is a controlled burn. But in any case doesn't matter. Well, the key issues with you know, the Democrats, Trump started to divide the Democrats. I don't think it's getting any traction. There was never a Biden personality cult that could make, you know, that sort of
a possible scenario. Harris was able to unify a broad spectrum with the party, you know, going from the left to the most centrist people who were who are the ones who really pushed for Biden to withdraw and everything that we're seeing from the rallies and from the fundraising
and for the small donors. I mean, I think Harris actually has a lot of opportunities, and one of which is that she's actually gonna be less reliant on big donors than Biden was, and so she can actually like pick fights with certain like donors, whether it's big Pharma
or other people, and not have to worry about it. Yeah, Like there's a lot of push about Wall Street types to get Lena Kahan out of so I actually think like it would be a smart move for Harris because she doesn't need the money with the Wall Street money the way Biden to just say, like Kahn was appointed by Joe Biden. She's done a great job. She stands
where we do on Freakia monopolies. You know, Harris actually has like room not just build a healthy lead, but to really expand and to show a lot of independence that could win over skeptical voters.
Yeah, for sure. And also I think, really when you think about Harris, this is part of this idea that she has the benefit of incumbency and she has less of the burden of incumbency because with Biden, I think
there were different things happening with Biden. I also think that the energy that brought Biden to the White House, and again, I think the man devoted himself to service, and I really do think that history will look back on him as a really a selfless public servant when all is said and done.
Well, yeah, that's the other thing though, I mean, like the Biden conquered thing that Trump is trying to do, Like you misunderstands Joe Biden. I mean I think like I was worried there that for a while that Joe Biden was getting very bad advice. Like what always gave me comfort was the knowledge that Biden has always been a party man. He's always been a loyal Democrat, and that was a key to his success, Like throughout his whole political career, going back to the Senate, right That's.
Why I thought he would drop out. Actually, if it looked like he was a drag on the ticket, I was pretty sure he would drop out because she is a company man and his company is the United States Senate.
But I did think like the reason that he got elected, some of it was the left, the right, the middle of the Democratic Party was like, we need somebody who is a white guy, who is just a sort of very kind of centrist broad Democrat who can go in there, and we're going to trade that up from an inspirational candidate. You know, he was never a gifted orator. He always had trouble speaking, and then he ultimately became a very
progressive president. But I think there was a sort of a decision made on the fly there.
Yeah, yeah, But I mean I think it was always a smart decisions sort of, you know, if it wasn't going to be someone I preferred, like Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders, I always thought Biden was the best choice because he is that company man, because he puts the party first, and you can kind of see that, like just like in the midterm result, he really organized the whole presidency to be a coalition of the Democratic party, and then the Democrats did well in the midterms and
in the special elections, And that's a very striking contrast to you know, both Obama and Bill Clinton, where you know, because they were sel charismotic, they kind of over dominated the party in a way that wasn't good for down ballid people. So yeah, no, I think there's a lot to respect with Joe Biden, and but I think it's also says something more about the Democratic Party that I think this is a crucial Like the two parties are
not the same, They're not equal. The Repoblicans under Trump have become hollowed out and taken over by this like con man grifter who is running a cult. Even if the party elite is against him, they can't ever do anything about him. The Democrats are not the same. They are an actual political party, a coalition of people. It's never about just one percent, right, That is crucial, Like that's actually how you build like actual lasting, real change.
Yeah, for sure, And I think that's a really important point here. Thank you for joining us. You are the best. I hope you will come back.
Oh you can't stop me, you can't heal it.
We have even more toward dates for you. Did you know the Lincoln Projects, Rick wils that have Fast Politics Mali jug Fast are heading out on tour to bring you a night of lasts for our dark political landscape. Join us on August twenty sixth at San Francisco at the Swedish American Hall, or in la on August twenty seventh at the Regent Theater. Then we're headed to the Midwest. We'll be at the Vivarium in Milwaukee on the twenty first of September, and on the twenty second we'll be
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Whitney Fox is a candidate in Florida's thirteenth congressional district. Welcome to Fast Politics, Whitney.
Thank you so much for having me, Mollie.
So tell us what you're running for. Tell us all about it.
Sure well, I am born and raised right here in the Tampa Bay area, and we currently have a representative who is quite extreme for our district in a Paulina Luna. But what really fired me to run for office myself was having children. My firstborn was born in twenty twenty. I remember holding her as a newborn baby and getting our medical bills in the mail and just thinking, with our medical bills, the lack of paid print to leave, the lack of affordable childcare. There was just such little
support for families in America as they're starting out. So something lit inside of me and I said I needed to do something about it. But also the fact that now my two little girls are growing up a few rights than I did. I decided I had to stand up and run for office.
You are running against someone who is a very trumpy candidate. Tampa is a mixed place. There are lefties, rities, everything in between, but it's a city. So explained to us what this sort of looks like and what people think of having this MAGA congresswoman.
Sure, well, I'm running in the Tampa Bay area, but it doesn't include the city of Tampa. It's Panellis County, which is Saint Petersburg's Clearwater area of Florida. And it was redistricted in twenty twenty two. It was previously held by Congressman Charlie Cris and he left to run for the governor of Florida. And when he vacated the seat and the district was redistricted, that is when Annapolina Luna won in twenty twenty two.
So it's more of a red district.
It's slightly more red, that's correct. And we had very low voter turnout in twenty twenty two, which I think was also part of the issue. So she won as an extremist and a very moderate pragmatic district. I mean a third of our voters are independents, and many people were shocked that she won and are appalled that she is our representative at the moment. So it's considered the most flippable congressional district in the state of Florida because of how extreme she is and because of how great
of a Canada I am. So we know as long as we can get our message out to the voters, we can win. We have a recent poll that was done that shows once the voters are informed on her extreme stances like supporting a national abortion ban and denying the twenty twenty election, we know that once they learned about my background here in the community as a public servant and my stances on the issues, it ends with Luna at forty seven percent and with myself, Whitney Fox
at forty nine percent. So we know as as as long as we inform the voters of what she is and is not doing for the district, that we kind of flip the seed.
So in Florida, you guys have an abortion referendum on the ballot. We interviewed the woman who is championing it is from the nonpartisan municipality wing of government. So talk to me about if you think that will turn out voters and will that turn out a sort of more moderate but still Democratic voter.
Listen, I think many people are fired up about this issue, and especially now that this is on the ballot. I'm excited because it's an educational opportunity, especially for Florida. You know, many people talking about these the abortion issues and the reproductive care and reproductive freedoms that we deserve. And Ina Paulina Luna supports a national abortion ban without exceptions for
rape incests or the life of the mother. And this past year when the sixth week abortion ban went into place for Florida, with her response to people who did not like the ban was move out of the state, you can leave. I mean, she has voted to repeal policies that help service women access reproductive healthcare. And she's also a member of the republic and Study Committee and BAX policies that put access to IVF and birth control at risk. And I'm sure, I mean, we're all familiar
with Project twenty twenty five. She has received a ninety eight percent reading from the Heritage Foundation, among the highest in Congress, which is responsible for Project twenty twenty five. So I think that this issue is a big issue in the state of Florida. It is part of why we are going to see the pendulum swing this year. People in Florida are tired of the extremism in Florida.
They want to have their reproductive freedoms, to be able to make their own healthcare decisions without the government telling them what they can and cannot do, which is why we are going to see women and men who support women show up and droves to the polls in November.
You have in Florida a very You have now a very restrictive abortion ban which just recently came into a fact. Some of this is you have a sort of Kansas situation where what happened with Governor Brownback is happening with Governor DeSantis, which is he he is enacting he's very very right wing policies. Talk to me about what the abortion band looks like on the ground there in Florida right now.
It's been very interesting because you know, I had a conversation with Planned Parenthood recently, who just endorsed me today.
By the way, we're very proud of their support, you know, asking them what has it been like now that the six week band has put into place, and you know they're letting me know that they're having to direct women to the Carolinas to receive care, and that many of these women can't afford to get travel out of the state, or they have other children and can't afford the child care to do. So it's interesting because I have so
many stories I can share. One recently is I don't leave my home without a Whitney Fox for Congress logo on. And I was at the playground with my girls a few months back and a woman ran up to me and said, are you Whitney Fox running for Congress against Anna Pauline A. Luda And I said, yes, I am, And she said, I have to share my abortion story with you. This is my son. And after I had my son, I had a miscarriage and if I hadn't received the reproductive healthcare I received, my two year old
daughter would not be here today. And she said, I will do whatever I can to volunteer to help your campaign, to share my story. And she is one of our best volunteers that we've had. So we have many people who have approached us, who have come out up to our campaign and said, I need to share my story.
How can I get involved? I mean there are many women who are especially even some NPAs independents or modern Republicans who maybe haven't had to think much about politics lately in their life, but now they're saying, wait a minute, this attack on IVF, that's how I had children, or I'm going through infertility now and going through the IVF process,
and now that's being threatened. And it's a very real issue for many people in our district, and they are fired up that this is an issue that Anna Pauline a Luna is so extreme.
About the other thing that I've seen. And again there's finn studies about this since the overturning of Row we saw in Louisiana, other red states that there are women who are in their first trimester of pregnancy who cannot get care, just regular pre natal care because doctors are afraid of miscarriages and that that might cause them to
get in trouble or be blamed. And then also we just saw this case out of Texas, these MDALA cases to women are suing this hospital because they were turned away with atopic pregnancies and a topic pregnancy can never become a baby because it's growing in the fallopian tubes. It can only destroy your fertility. I mean, are you seeing stories like that out.
Of Florida, Yes, Molly, it's pretty awful. I mean there's a story of a woman here in the Tampa Bay area who you know, her water broke very early in the case where no fetus will be able to survive, and the emergency rooms here in Florida turned her away. And you know, the very first thing that she did the next day, she went to the salon to get her hair done, and the reason was is she didn't want to burden her parents with getting her hair done for her funeral because she was certain she was going
to die. She ended up giving birth to her fetus in the bathroom of the hair salon and lost half of the blood in her body. I mean, these are the types of things that are happening, and the fact that we are in this moment fighting for our lives and our healthcare is quite terrifying. I mean, I'm reminded of my own pregnancies and sitting in those ultrasound rooms hoping and praying that everything is going to be okay. I cannot imagine being told everything is not okay and
there's nothing that we can do about it. I mean, this isn't pro life by any means. It's forced birth. It's forced birth. Then get back to work and your entire paycheck going to childcare. I mean, this is not pro family, and this is not supportive of women in any capacity. And we are starting to hear the horrifying stories of what's going on and the fact that it's affecting people's lives and doctors are leaving the state of Florida. It is a horrible effect that we're having here in
the state. Since the six week into place.
Yeah, I relate to that. One of my kids had a single artery in his himbilical cord. We had endless meetings about what is this going to mean? He ended up being fine, but it was really scary, and you know, I had my twins from IVF and there was tons of times where I was just praying that they were okay. The sort of second consequence of this, the inadvertent consequences of these bands, is really women unable to get pre natal care, doctors leaving the states, making it even more
unsafe to be a pregnant woman in this country. Absolutely.
I spoke to a constituent the other day who has children in their thirties and and his daughters is pregnant and he told her to go stay somewhere in the northern part of the United States, that he did not feel comfortable with her going through her pregnancy in the state of Florida. I mean, how awful is that to feel like you need to send your daughter away because it's not safe to be pregnant in the state of Florida. It's pretty terrifying. And that's the issue here, Mollie is
Floridians are tired of the extremism. They're tired of the left versus right, the Democrat versus Republican, They're red versus blue. They want to have their freedoms, to make their own decisions. They want a government that's going to work for them. And Anna Paulina Luda is so extreme in her stances, and that's why our campaign is going so well, and that's why we have a shot at winning not only flipping the seat, but getting one of the worst members
of Congress out of office. I mean, she's a member of the Freedom Caucus. She has been listed as more extreme than Marjorie Taylor Green, Matt Gates, and Lauren Bobert. Which is setting the bar pretty low. And you know, we are a moderate district of pragmatic voters that are that are eager for new leadership.
That is really something that's such a crazy metric. Do you think that when you're talking to people, because you really are in Florida and you really are in this in this purple district. I mean, what's the feeling on the ground. Do you think that Florida is sick of DeSantis? I mean, he won re election really by a staggering margin, but I think some of his policies have boomeranged on him absolutely well.
You know, Anna pulling a little ran on making Penillas County affordable again, and by that measure, she's a complete failure. I mean, Florida has some of the highest inflation and insurance rate increases in the country. I mean, her self serving political games do not put food on the table. Her attending criminal trials in New York is not lowering drug costs. Her going on tour across the country with JD Vance will not lower our bills here in the district.
She's a self described influencer, and the time in taxpayer dollars she is wasting is infuriating. I mean, this has been the least productive Congress in decades, and Luna's efforts to constantly shut down the government is part of that problem. Instead of protecting IVF and birth control, she's chasing headlines. Instead of upholding our democratic institutions, she's attempting to weaken them simply because she doesn't like the outcome of investigations.
She attacks the DOJ anytime they don't rule in her favor, and tried to have The latest thing she did was trying to have Attorney General Mayor Garland arrested. I mean, she wrote a children's book about how the election was stolen. She is dangerous and eroding trusts in our institutions. So I think that we are seeing from the boots on the ground and talking to voters in our district that people are tired of the extremism. She made a lot of promises in her campaign, and they see that she
is not delivering. She can talk a good talk, but when it comes to actually taking action and doing the hard part of governing, which is to sit down with others, make compromises and get things done, she's not doing it. Her idea of governing is if I don't get my way, I'm going to take my ball and go home. Or you know, we need beachery nourishment desperately here in our district, and instead of working with the Army Corps engineers in order to get it done, she has threatened to defund them.
She's not a serious person to have in government, and our district knows that, and that's why we have so much support behind our campaign. We are going to be able to unsee her.
That is so important and interesting. One of the big problems you guys are having in Florida with inflation is insurance. Right, It's skyrocketing. Do you think people connect that with the Republican governor or not so much.
I think that it's become pretty clear that this is an issue that typically would need to be handled at a state level, and that is not happening. I mean, when I'm talking to voters, the number one issue I'm hearing from them is affordability, and at the top of
that list is the home insurance crisis. You know, I attended a firefighter one oh one day recently and learned that most of our firefighters don't live here in the district because they can't afford it, and this is an issue for all of our frontline workers, teachers, healthcare workers, firefighters. It's become completely unaffordable to live here in the district. And on top of that, a majority of our voters are over the age of fifty. We have many seniors
here in the Tampa Bay areas. You can imagine, they are on fixed incomes, and as costs like home insurance are going up, they are having to make tough decisions about whether they should pay for prescription drugs or pay for their rent. And we have a staggering number of
seniors becoming homeless. If you think about that, these poor seniors becoming homeless, and when it comes to home insurance, because we hear so often from so many people, you know, I believe that if you are a representative here in the state of Florida, or you are running for office, and you are not talking about home insurance, you're not addressing the issue that people want you to address. So, you know, many people have told me that it's an issue that needs to be addressed at a state level,
but I am not taking that as an answer. Hurricane Debbie just a week ago left thousands of people without power here in our district and the solution that we are coming up with is we are coming up with a plan of how can we address this home insurance crisis from a federal level. One idea we have is a national natural disaster plan. You know, we have something like this in place already nationally, which is our flood insurance. But it used to be a problem, the home insurance
crisis here in Florida only a few years ago. But now it's become a national issue. And there are many states from out west with wildfires or in the Midwest with you know, hailstorms and windstorms. Home insurance companies are tripling their costs or dropping people left and right. So we need a play on nationally that's going to protect
us as climate change continues to get worse. And that is an issue that I am hearing from the voters, and we are putting a plan together and that's what we deserve as representatives who are going to actually hear what the issues are and address them.
Thank you, Whitney. Are you concerned about Project twenty twenty five and how awful Trump's second term could be, Well, so are we, which is why we teamed up with iHeart to make a limited series with the experts on what a disaster Project twenty twenty five would be for America's future. Right now, we have just released the final episode of this five episode series. They're all available by looking up Molly Jong Fast Project twenty twenty five on YouTube.
And if you are more of a podcast person and not say a YouTuber, you can hit play and put your phone in the lock screen and it will play back just like a podcast. All five episodes are online now. We need to educate Americans on what Trump's second term would or could due to this country, So please watch it and spread the word. Brian Tyler Cohen is the host of No Lie, an MSNBC contributor and the author of Shameless, Republicans Delivered, Dysfunction and the Battle to Preserve Democracy.
Welcome to Fast Politics, Brian Tyler.
Cohen, Ollie, thank you so much for having me.
So tell me about this book, why you decided to write this book, and how you got here.
I thought it was important to explore this topic now as we get into another election cycle where Americans look at Republicans and the polling reflects that they give them all this credit. On the economy, on national security on family values. That's basically the cornerstone of JD. Vance's campaign. And yet Republicans have long since done this where they rely on their historical branding to give themselves cover to
act in a way that's completely antithetical to that. So they claim that the Party of family values, of fiscal responsibility, of states rights, of the constitution, of the military, of law and order, And when you drill down into each of these, they don't actually deserve any of that branding, but they still kind of ride the wave of that branding anyway, and so I think it really benefits them to a degree that they don't actually deserve.
Give us an example of something where they say one thing and do another.
Yeah, I mean, if you look at family values, for example, right now, they are blocking a bill in the Senate that would actually allow for IVF to move forward that is quite literally building families. How you can claim that you're the Party of family values and yet you are currently blocking a bill that would allow people to actually build families is just beyond me. Then beyond that, if you look at their lack of support for snap benefits,
for earn benefits, Medicare, and Medicaid, and social security. On every instance where Republicans actually have the opportunity to prove out this thesis that they're good for families, they behave in a way that's diametrically opposed to that.
If you look at.
Somebody like Donald Trump, for example, the Republican Party is lined up behind him, a guy who was just found guilty of thirty four felony counts for the were charges related to hush money payouts for an a fairyad while his wife was at home with their infant son. That's the Party of family values, the Party of the Constitution. This is the first party that refused to abide by the peaceful transfer of power in over two hundred years.
The Party of States Rights, even though you had a bunch of Republican attorneys general who lined up behind this Texas lawsuit in twenty twenty that would seek to invalidate the election results in four other states just because they didn't like the outcome. The Party of Fiscal Responsibility. This party added seven point eight trillion dollars to the debt. On each branding point, they actually again behave in a way that is completely antithetical to their own professed values.
Where do you think this started.
So if we look at somebody like Donald Trump, for example, who is in large part who people blame for this, he is a symptom of a broader problem and problem that has existed for a long time within the Republican Party. You look back to the Ale's Memo, which ultimately became the creation of Fox News, so that what happened to Richard Nixon would never happen to a Republican president. Again, you look at somebody like Newt Gingrich for example, who I would in large part claim is responsible for the
acrimony in politics today. And this whole idea that when Barack Obama became president, their sole goal, the Republican's sole goal in government, was just to prevent any progress from moving forward. That's where a lot of this started. And these plans were put in place decades ago. And to their credit, Republicans are really good at very patiently allowing these plans to see themselves through to fruition. And so in terms of, you know, building up a right wing
media ecosystem, look at what they have right now. Democrats can hardly compete. There is a massive asymmetry at play where the Republicans enjoy Fox News, Newsmax, Oan, Daily Wire, Daily Caller, all of their podcast Dan Bongino stuff, Steve
Bannon shows. There's no major equivalent on the left to take on just that deluge of disinformation being perpetuated by the right, and so I think that the onus is right now on the Democrats to kind of see the asymmetry at play for these plans that were laid out so long ago, and where disadvantage we have to rush to fight back. But I think to our credit, we're finally doing that.
But cable news is not as powerful as it once was, and that's certainly true with Fox Right. Tucker Carlson used to set the agenda. Now he is in a very siloed universe. Now he still gets to his people, but he may not get to sort of casual users. Can you explain how that's changed the dynamic.
I think that for a long time, Republicans have been very good at embracing independent media or digital media because they knew that the mainstream media wasn't overtly conservative overtly Republican, and so they've had no choice but to embrace independent media. And as mainstream media, legacy media has descended in terms
of importance and in terms of eyeballs. We were kind of left at a real structural disadvantage because Republicans have already invested all of this time into their podcasts, into their radio shows, AM Radio, specifically, into their alternative outlet that had already become a major base of support. And by the way, Donald Trump and a lot of these Republicans were quick to embrace them, recognizing that that's where
a lot of the true influence laid. But Democrats have always been overly reliant on a mainstream media ecosystem that is not only not liberal. Maybe some of the journalists and reporters are liberal, but mainstream media as a whole doesn't perceive itself as liberal. And in fact, not only are they not liberal, but they will bend over backwards
to kowtow to the right. And so, for example, in twenty sixteen, when you had the hy Hillary's emails situation happening, there were what sixty nine front page stories on the New York Times about Hillary's emails, and they covered it because they knew if they didn't, they would get called the liberal media by the right, and so they had no choice but to cover it because god forbid anybody
called them the liberal media. And then when Avanka Trump did the same thing during Trump administration, well that came and went like a fart and a hurricane. So this asymmetry has been at play for a really long time. But I think to Republicans' credit, they knew early on to embrace independent alternative media. Now that that's where everybody's eyes are actually at, that's helped them in ways that are difficult to quantify. At this point.
What you're talking about is this Republican working of the rafts right where they say, how dare you not cover Hillary's emails? You need to cover Hillary's emails? And now we have this leaked information from member of the Trump campaign, one that is very dubious that member of the campaign and a bunch of media outlets are sitting on the leaked information. Is that what you're talking about?
No, I'm talking about the twenty sixteen election just right.
No, I know, but you see that asymmetry right there, right absolutely, if you look at the extent to which all of the hacked information that was sent to the DNC in the lead up to the twenty sixteen election was disseminated by WikiLeaks and widely reported on.
By all of the major news outlets. And now we find out that this guy named Joe sent a bunch of leaked information from the RNC to Politico and I believe a few other outlets if I'm not mistaken. And not only have we not had reporting on that since they've had this information for what I believe is over a month now, but they're actually deciding on it's nothing more than just broad strokes about the type of information
they have, but there's clearly no equivalency. And so it seems that when the media learns its lessons, it's only to the benefit of Republicans and always to the detriments of Democrats.
Now, people in the straight media, you know, we're on the opinion side, so we have a little more leniency. But a straight reporter would push back and say, I'm just trying to cover this in a nonpartisan way, and you know, nonpartisan coverage tends to try to honor both sides. How would you push back on that?
We would be crazy not to view how there is a major asymmetry at play in terms of both sides. I mean, what the extremists on the left, and I say extremists using air quotes. What the extremists on the left one is ultimately healthcare for everybody and a green New Deal. It's policies that will present the planet. What extremists on the right want is for the extermination broad swaths of people and for Democrats to inherently not have
the right to get elected in this country. Let's put on display in our media where every time you have any left position, it has to be countered by a
right position, and they're they're equating the two. Also, I think, you know, with Donald Trump, the things that he says that he can get away with because it's just baked into the cake that he's going to say this kind of stuff where you know, we can play the age old game where what happens if Joe Biden said something like this, What happens if Kamala Harris would say something like this? What happens if Barack Obama would say something
like this? But it doesn't get coveraged anymore. And so when Donald Trump, for example, comes out and denies the very biraciality of Kamala Harris, it's a one day news story. But if Joe Biden said something like that, or Kamala Harris said something like that. How many days would Fox News be hammering away at this over and over and then regular mainstream media would see that and they would take their cues from them and they would cover it
as well. How many days did we talk about the fact that Donald Trump decided to equate his January Insurrection crowd with Martin Luther King Junior's I have a Dream speech at the Capitol and that was just maybe a one day story. What about the fact that Donald Trump went on Twitter for his Twitter space with Elon Musk and just decided to trash union workers. Imagine if Joe Biden did something like that or Kamala Harris did something
like this. I mean, we can play this game all day, but because it's just baked into the cake that Republicans are racist or misogynist or bigoted or anti worker or anti everything they claim to before, we just brush over it. It maybe gets the new cycle for a day, largely with the help of progressive media, but otherwise we just move on and see what we can attack the Democratic ticket for.
I would say yes, and right, I think that's both true and not true. Right, Like Donald Trump gets away with things. Yes, because he's normalized. Yes, he is an Autocrat for sure, no question. And yes, there certainly is a fair amount of media being like, oh, yeah, it's faked in, you know, that's what he does. Would say that in some ways he's kind of a unique figure because he has that more than other Republicans. Now that's not to say the hypocrisy doesn't get covered the same way.
But if you had a Republican you say something so outside the mainstream the way Trump does, I think it would get covered. Part of the problem I think the mainstream media has covering Trump is that Trump is not for them, right, He's not even for people who read the mainstream media. Like if you look at the polls, if you read mainstream media, you're not voting for Trump.
And this is again me trying to get into other people's ps psychology, but it certainly feels like it's a little bit that they've sort of stopped trying because they know that the Trump people and even if you look at the polls, like he has a number that does not move. His number is forty whatever percent is baked in and there's almost nothing that can move it because those people is their goeshal.
Right, I do agree with that, but I think that regardless of the fact the media is not in the business that part of the media is not in the business of persuasion. They should be in the business of telling the truth. And it doesn't matter if people have become normalized to it. It doesn't mean that you stop trying because when you do, it basically creates a vacuum that Republicans can then fill with whatever stories they want
to put in and fill. So I think I think for a large part of this, it's just about driving the narrative.
Flooding the zone was shed. It's what you're talking to do.
Flooding this all with shit. When the media sees that, like, okay, there's forty six percent, forty seven percent, it's immovable. We can keep reporting on Donald Trump's lives, or we can focus on something else. But reporting on Donald Trump's lives isn't going to change anything. That doesn't matter. They're not in the business of persuasion. They should be hitting away at this stuff every single day if they have to, because their goal is not to try to move people
or persuade people. Their goal should just be reporting the truth. And even if we get used to it, and the overton windows ships so much just by sheer like sheer repetition of this stuff on a day basis, that shouldn't matter.
But the right knows that as soon as the media gives up on this stuff because it's not as sexy as it was when Donald Trump did it the first time or the second time or the third, fourth, fifth, tenth, twentieth, thirtieth, fortieth, fiftieth, that when the media gives up on reporting it, then that creates that vacuum, and Republicans can fill that vacuum
with their stories and whatever they want to perpetuate. And that's why we get Hillary's emails, That's why we get the Hunter Biden bullshit, That's why we get all of these stories because the media gives up on reporting something that they shouldn't be giving up on reporting just because we've become used to it by now.
Yeah, I mean, I don't disagree. I wonder what this sort of solve is for that right, because we have a very diminished mainstream media, we have local news. You know. The thing that I think is so it is what will be so bad if we can't keep it going? Is this sort of investigation stories the very I mean, I'm thinking about this investigation where Trump may have gotten money from Egypt, right, and we know Egypt likes to
give people money. We saw that with a certain Democratic senator from New Jersey, so there's a precedent for this. It's a nonpartisan activity. Those stories are expensive, and they are manpower and lawyers and FactCheck and that stuff is the stuff that Republicans really get crazy about, because if you don't have investigations like that, you don't have a free press, and you really are on your way to a dictatorship.
Correct. And look, I think that obviously the press is a major partner in accountability. I do think the onus is on them to figure out how to iterate and reach more people right now in this information ecosystem that we have, because we can't just allow it to kind
of die on the vine. I don't want to equate that kind of very important investigative journalism with both sides media, and I do think that both sides media does a disservice to the essential investigative journalism that keeps this country running and keeps our politicis accountable. That's what hurts them.
In fact, because when people look away from the media more broadly and these media figures and these media outlets because of the both sides media, the unfortunate byproduct is that we lose attention on the really important stories that you just alluded to, and so the onus is on them to either cut that out because people can see through the both sides ism, or figure out how to iterate to be able to make sure that that kind of stuff remains even as as mainstream media gets fewer
and fewer viewers.
Thank you, Brian, Thanks Molly.
I appreciate it a moment exactly. Jesse Cannon, Molly jung Fast.
I listened to too much of that Trump elon Twitter space, and my god, was it bat See.
I love this because I couldn't get in, so I just want to best.
I listened to the recap, you know.
I was like, I can't get in. Oh well, that was one.
Of the fun features is elon lying about a d DOOS attack. Verge got sources inside X that said, Nope, He's like, no DDUS attach as usual. They're full of shit.
What's interesting to me about this is that it's a live stream. It's something that's like not technologically all that complicated. It's the year twenty twenty four, and they just couldn't get it to work. Trump actually said that it was because there were sixty million people on the live stream. There were maybe, if you can trust the Twitter numbers a million at the time, but who knows if it
was that. So that whole fiasco. And by the way, like having maybe your biggest donor ask you questions, it's not technically.
It's not exactly journalism like some people are saying today.
I mean, if you want to get Melinda Gates to ask Kamila Harris a bunch of questions, we could do that too, and probably live stream would work. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.