Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, where we discuss the top political headlines with some of today's best minds and Donald Trumps as he never swore an oath to protect the Constitution.
What we have such a great show for you today.
Representative Seantel Brown tells us about what she sees in her district in Ohio.
Then we'll talk to Survival.
Of the Richest author and close personal friend of the podcast, Doug Rushkoff about Elon Musk's latest fuckory along with the looming threat of AI. But first we have Democratic strategist James Garvell.
Welcome back, James Carvel.
I'm always glad to be back.
We're so happy to have you, and I want to ask you, so you have done this many times, say you are Biden's campaign manager. Right now, what are you going to do now you have a year? Tell me how you get working class people back into the Democratic Party and bring back Hispanics and African Americans.
No pressure go.
First of all, we we just got to do gotta.
With white working class.
It's not about it.
But what do you think the white working class wants.
A lot of the lord. We can't give them that's health adults or race. Not all of them, but a lot just can't give them. Sorry, you know, we're not gonna shoot people of that kind of stuff, so it's just not gonna have but we can certainly cut the margins. We have horrific problems with black turnout. I can you tell you how bad they are. And we also have
the problems with you front. Part of it is going to be, you know, making the top continue to make him this horrible a deals but people already know horrible. He is asked to see Bobby Kennedy's mental health records, which should be a minimum because right now he's getting
a lot of votes. I mean a lot of people are saying they get to vote for it because they you know, why not be on like Biden on a like pump and you know RFA sewn or remember something about that guy so which pleads for reached your mental
health rate? And if you know you ever been cited for HEROLD, I would ask the questions and you get into a fifth way, You're great to ask what and you'd have to run a pretty aggressive youth engagent program because the youth engagement in the black engagement in not very.
Good in some ways.
I think about Bill Clinton because Clinton also struggled with the youth vote the second time around.
Right, it's trouble. I mean, it should be the youth share thirty and on there should be about seventeen. If you fall below that, it really hurts because it's not just that the young published break for you.
They also have to come out vote.
So let's just say the youth share is supposed to be seventeen, you get sixty two, Well, get the share go fifteen. Not only do not get sixty two or seventeen, you get sixty to fifteen. But conversely, the over thirty shifts have two flights, which you're not going to do it well. I was looking at the results of the Ohio Abortion Book, and it was staggering how every time you went up the age demographic level, the pro choice
folk went down, and I mean it was noticeable. And if you don't get you young voters are just a critical, critical, critical part of the Democratic coalition, and they just don't have to stand a good sentence. They have to stand a really good engagement for and the old top voters they're engaged. They want to burn the god Nail compute Hey, they got garrisene in the package out. They're ready to go.
So let's talk about that for a second.
Youth engagement it's about sort of registering voters, or it's about getting like. I think about student dead a lot, because that's something that I know young voters really care about, right.
But the people pre said young voters that are in that really care about it.
But most a lot of young people.
Go out of college. They go two old people that go to day community college and go to the entire I believe right now that I mean, you're right, you have the debt, you really care about it. Think of how many young folds of minimum age works are largely involved. I mean style, twenty two year old working in tar shop in Atlanta. He got a lot more shit on his mind and it's been student debt. But it gets
one of these things. And what we think because the yellow people we know care about student that the old people we know care about common issues.
And you know, because now.
I'll come home from cotwoit with all on that friends and we say, gee, I know to you. I got a twenty three year old daughter that lives in Chelsea and Manhattan. Well, the people that she hangs out would are not reflected of other twenty four year olds around the country. They're not all clubbing. When you do it politics, you got to be careful not to take your own
experience and apply to everyone else. If every you know clubbing twenty four year old Manhattan is twenty four and a trying to take care of it, what.
Do you think about the idea of just getting Biden out there more?
A lot of times the criticism I've heard is that he's sort of too cloistered and they're too careful with him.
How I say this because I'm just turned seventy nine. I think he's doing all he can do. I think you got so much gas in that tank, and he's got a pretty good bit on his on his plate anyway, But have him go out.
There and do you want just sort of more campaigning.
It's following a LOGI has call got people in more trouble than anything I can think of.
It.
It goes like this, something must be done, this is something, ergo, let's do this. Oh, then you end up in a rock show. Something be done. But not every something you say cause a lot more Greek than others. But and I don't know if you you said, well, I need to put by An out there more. I to do more doing one have a town hall voter, uh, Virginia Community College, all right, not in a union hall.
I don't know right now.
The situation is is garis.
There were a lot of crutch for example, like I just want to go back to the off off your election. In my mind, I was pretty sure that young Kin was going to be able to flip the House of Delegates because or the state Senate one was Republican, because it felt to me like Young Cain was offering a sort of more moderate style of trump Ism. What happened instead was that Democrats were able to flip the other state house, and now Youngkin has even less power. Democrats
really did overperform again. So I'm just wondering how much you think that relates to the current situation.
So let's let'st it is undeniably true that Democrats have either won or oh before in every elections to Kansas Night if you remember the Kansas represented which is in August twenty twenty two. Actually the only answer don't right to go to that campaign. Since then, we've won and overperformed in every election.
That's the denial.
We actually got a higher present Mississippi and any Democrats got in missispydo very.
Very close to the Democrats that didn't stake part a chair.
Second looks worth forty years now you think one person more than any other, and that's more more young and was going to use tests. You know, I'm gonna hate the bion asked paper report and heat raised and slow body. And if he won, he kept the thousand and wouldn't send it. He was going to go to Moine the concert new and then the United States done to Mark Walk for Government of Virginia, got on the phone and did what he had to do and raised a bunch
of money. And the Democrats ran a very smart companigne. Much of it was talking about keeping revolt the bout of your bedroom in your library, and.
We ran foot camp.
We have club streets.
Does this have a art of complication for Biden?
Truck community Colonel West.
Joe ste right in.
You know, but it's undeniable that we're running elections right now, the kind of winning everywhere Sonatics come in. I mean, Yack is so nakedly transparent. David Will for the Litcharlo. You know, I can't talk about but we get in. Well really yet in the home now.
He said, Well, they caught up with the fifteen week ban with exceptions, by the way, is approved by the NASH No white lifeple.
They're trying to surrender us.
No one will take their white flag. The public is like spoo you. We don't trust you.
You don't bleed this. You're tied to you try to get you're trying to burn out books. You're trying to get in our betrouts, trying to make every preachers make decisions about our lives. If we feel like when Toddlin and then you get caught and you say about, well figure something out. No, people are not that stupid sicklet in all the Virginia I mean where we worked with some pretty pretty engaged voters.
Yeah, so it sounds like your anxiety is And I think these are really relevant and important and certainly these really are things that can be addressed a little less than a year to the election. But youth voters, youth turnout, and third party right in.
Black turnout, I mean black turnout out, the kind of zoop form invidia what almost non existent.
This has been true everywhere for some reason.
And I do not know why you can't get people talk about it. They think it's racist to say we we have a troubled with black crowd. It's just the opposite, which yet we had elections.
Do you think that Biden has done something to alienate black voters.
I can't imagine any precedent with a better record for Black America to Joe Biden.
And if you can't convince.
Your hawks in to grow unemployment differential between black and white unemployment.
The appointments he may he's made.
Just what Joe what Joe Biden's heart is right? I said he was the biggest.
Ill plunder mard thatf we had a stunning rugery. No one's had a better record than Joe Biden and no one is getting the worse.
Oh, do you think it's that he doesn't have enough black surrogate out on the trail?
I got black sargus everywhere.
You have black captain all right to have any more. And by the way, we had bad black turn out with both Warnock and Station at the.
Ballot in the first round of twenty twenty two.
We had bad black turnout with sharing b sail the ballot in North Carolina we had bad turnout, black turnout, and Spain it bad black turnout in Wisconsin.
I got these consultants called, he said, ship, look it. You know what do we do?
And I'm like, I'm trying to think with them, and you know, come up with ideas and throw spaghetti up against the wall. And right now is sticking.
You have no sense of what it is.
It's not that we don't have sufficient black commogies. Now we can.
We can part that law as a reason. I'm pretty sure that's not it. It's somehow or another.
They don't think that we understand their lives.
Yeah.
I think a lot of it is is that I think the costs of living stuff.
Right, the inflation stuff.
Yeah, it's just cute.
So you go out and you know people, well they content actually doesn't and you think it is and then they say, well that guy that.
Makes it great.
Now I did.
But if you don't say something good about the economy, how they're going to know it as anything else? Probably default position is going to be let's scare of the ship out of it. You know that that's gonna work. According to the White House.
Message, they say, you're not voting for the almighty, you're.
Voting for the alternative. It's all right. That is not a very inspirational starting place. The tough that is summoned to do.
Well, not you know, well, think about how bad you think, no the band, Now, just think about how bad.
That's not probably gonna get somebody off the vote. Yeah, it's a vaccine problem.
Is the obi people really talk about it are people that have directly involved in these campaigns. I mean Mandela Barge, the Progressive great unbelievable, we couldn't get turnout.
Can I just say one thing about Mandela bar He almost won. He was a victim of bad pulling right. The poll showed he was behind by ten points or eight points.
You know what, our shoes stupid.
If we haven't lost, we're wanning elections. We wonder the spring Court elected about thirteen points. You know, almost don't get you anything.
Not only to be the reason he lost, he did staggeringly well in Dane.
County, which is Madison. He can't tap it black time out the law. If he had anything toward normal turnament, and that's where the share kills you. That's that's where you lose when you don't have that, that's why you lose harches and that's why this is so.
Unbelieval quick slugging. Yes, a Vandela bar is the perfect example.
Wanted to tell you the white progressis they came out of the woodwork, but it wasn't enough. The black sip vote but one or not in order to win, it's very difficult to do it without a robust you said, out got a robust black shit.
You really have to match the historical level. You don't affect. You re open.
Thank you so much, James really appreciate you got you dere.
Congresswoman Sean Tel Brown represents Ohio's eleventh congressional district.
Welcome too fast politics. Representative Brown, thank you for having me.
I'm excited to have you, and I feel like you have such an interesting district. But talk to us a little bit about how you got to Congress and what your district is like.
I'll start back when I think it's important for your listeners to know that my entree into politics came because I simply wanted to help my neighbors who were all like seniors and mitire's. I was the youngest homeowner on my street. This is in twenty eleven and much like we're dealing with now with the Israel Kamas conflict. The news cycle was redundant, but at that time it was the Japanese tsunami. It led me to my first city council meeting because I I wanted to know where would
we go in the event of a natural disaster. So I got the answer. But something gnawed my spirit and said, keep going back and learn about what's happening in your neighborhood. And I did, and what I learned, Molly was there was room for improvement. So rather than complain, I'm a person that believes in being the change that you want to see. And so I decided to throw my name
in the hat to run for city council. And as I continued to go to the meetings, I cultivated relationships with the administration and they said, if you need some help out there, let us know. Well. I took them up on their offer, and I was able to get some things done even before being elected. Fast forward, election day came, polls closed, I was down by six votes. Actually thought I lost the race. I was down but
not out, disappointed but not devastated. I decided I was going to keep doing what I was doing because I was getting things done. It was about doing the work for the people and not necessarily the position or the title for me. But little did I know there were twenty three provisional ballots in my race. Eleven days later, after those votes were counted, I learned that I had actually won by seven votes. Wow. Yes, every vote does count. Do the work for the people, not the position of
the power. And that was the thing that led me into politics. So fast forward, other opportunities presented themselves. I eventually became a county council person, Democratic Party chair, and then the special election came when my predecessor was promoted
to Secretary of hud for the Biden Harris administration. And I think the timing opportunity and the work that I had done from twenty eleven to twenty twenty one put me in an excellent position to be able to navigate a race of thirteen candidates and secure almost fifty one percent of the vote in that race. And it really came down to me and another dynamic African American woman.
But I think the distinction was I had been in the community for the last ten years actually delivering results, while she had been on the national stage campaigning along Senator Sanders, and so that was the distinction. People knew me I had a reputation for getting things done, and the people knew that they could trust me to go to Congress and get the work done on their behalf.
I want to talk to you about this because right now we are starting the run up to what might be the last election we ever have in this country, not to put too fine a point on it, And what you're saying is that you won your election by being known by local people and by delivering for them. I mean, do you think that can translate into the presidential.
Absolutely, because politics is local, right. We've heard the expression and we know it. I'm a federal candidate. I make laws at the national level. But the race came down to the people and knowing the candidates, knowing what the reputation was, knowing the work that they've actually done. Kyahaga County, for your listeners, is heavily democratic, So people say, you know, if you put a bottle of water and it has
a d by, it's going to get elected in. It's very important, though, that you have someone in the position, though, that knows how to get things done, who has good working relationships with folks who also is open minded and willing to make compromise. And I think that was the key to what some people would call my rapid rise and success in what has been often described as a
legacy seat. This seat was held by the Honorable Loo Stokes, who demanded that we have reflective representation in our government. He was followed by Stephanie Tubbs Jones who left us all too soon, but she had a huge reputation known for her just dynamic personality. She could connect with people from what I would describe as the hood to the heights, from the streets to the suites. She just was known
for that. And then followed by my predecessor, Secretary Marsha Fudge, who has been known for making headway and not headlined. She's just all about the policy and always making sure she put the people first. And that was one of the things that she instilled in me. Make sure you put the people first, and that to me is what keeps the eleventh Congressional District. Folks focus on the person, and not necessarily the personality, focus on the substance and not necessarily the style.
So today I was talking to James Carbo, and he said, one of the anxieties that Democrats are having is black turnout. I mean, do you think that's crazy? And if you think that's right, what do you think Democrats need to do to fix that.
We've got to meet people where they are, Molly, and I know that that sounds cliche, but it is really true, and we have to be able to connect the dots for folks particularly, a lot of people are in survival mode.
Right.
Inflation is high, but it's coming down. Rent is high. I don't know that that's coming down, but we are seeing more job creation lower unemployment than we have in recent history.
Right.
But because people are in this kind of survival state of mind, we have to be able to connect the winds in everyday life with the policy makers and the legislators so that they understand how the two connect. And what I mean by that. Let's you know, the fact that we've been able to cap insulin prices at thirty five dollars a month is helping put money back into people's pockets.
Right.
We know that African Americans are disproportionately affected by diabetes and other chronic illnesses and they're very costly. But because of the Inflation Reduction Act. We've been able to make some real change because of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. We've created millions of jobs that did not require a four
year degree, but you can earn a good wage. So we've got to get people back to work and back to getting into these good positions, and those who have been able to benefit from these jobs, they have to be able to draw the line back to oh, this is a result of a policy that was made by
my congress person. The veterans packed at those things that have helped Veterans who historically and traditionally were not getting the level of benefits that they had earned and deserved, need to know that it was not a miraculous act of God that now they're getting eighty ninety one hundred percent of their benefits when for the last few decades
they've been getting ten or fifteen percent. So making these things digestible, palatable, and connecting them to their everyday life, I think is critical to us making sure that people understand that their vote has value and they are getting some real tangible results.
So you have this legislation that you've just introduced which would improve federal re entry grant programs. Explain to us what all those words be in.
Well, recidivism is high, and we want to make sure that we're dealing with issues as it relates to recidivism and reducing that. And so we wanted to put something together because this, again is an issue in a city like clevelandle one of the highest poverty rates in a big city in the country, where we're trying to help returning citizens be able to seamlessly transition back into the
everyday life. And so these are the things that we hear from constituents that are critically important to just again making their lives better, putting people over politics, doing the real work that delivers real results and improve the quality of their life.
So, after three weeks of having no House speaker, you now have a new Speaker of the House. He is quite religious, but not universally disliked like Kevin McCarthy, So that's something he definitely has fantasies of a federal abortion ban. Are you concerned about that coming up? There's different parts of the cr that he has to try to pass. A lot of this is going to happen in the new year. But I'm just curious what your thoughts are about the new Speaker.
Many thoughts about speaker, So starting with the fact that he is he has been described as the architect of the election, denying for the twenty twenty election, and that is very concern and giving the fact that he is now the Speaker of the House and has far, far, far too much authority in my opinion, as it relates to how we will transition in twenty twenty four after votes are accounted and the things that we will need
to do to certify our election. So I do have some concerns as it relates to the National Abortion Band. You know, I'm from Ohio. We had a big issue in November earlier this month as it relates to enshrining the right for women and people to make their own health care decisions into our constitution. It was a big deal because, like many of the other states where this was on the balloted pass by I think fifty seven percent.
And the reason I bring that up is because Republican like Megamike and Jim Jordan and our Secretary of State, who was the architect of an issue in August, wanted to raise that threshold to sixty percent of supermajority, which would have if they were successful in August, then this
initiative in November would not have passed. So it is very concerning to have someone in the House who is anti abortion, anti LGBTQ, and does it under the guise of religion, because I am a child of faith and the Bible that I read teaches me to love, and that is one of the foundation and premises of faith that I don't always see being practiced on the other
side of the aisle. There's a lot of hate, a lot of bashing, and a lot of anti this and anti that, and it is quite frightening for me as a black woman who knows that our rights and freedoms are constantly being threatened, especially right now where we have this radical right wing Supreme Court who continues to make decisions that just seem to continue to turn back the hands of time as it relates to affirmative action, the Dobbs decision which overturned Row versus Way. It is a
frightening time. So Maga Mike is right in line with President Trump's just anti anti anti everything. They are truly the Party of no great at pointing out problems, terrible at finding any solutions, and I don't see right now Magamic being any different. Quite candidly, it.
Is interesting now that they have found someone who he basically would someone that they sort of like they just panicked right after three weeks of not having a speaker, and really we just have to make someone speaker. And this guy is not universally loathed. I think it's interesting when you think about this abortion band. I mean, you're in Ohio, so you I mean, what do voters tell you are their concerns.
Well, let me start with going just back to that critical election at the top of the month. Is that people. The people spoke loud and clear, and it was a broad coalition. I definitely have the lead Democrat, but Independence and Republicans. You don't get those type of numbers in Ohio without having a broad coalition of support. So what they're telling us is that they want to be able
to make their own health care decisions. They do not support these all out abortion bans, these extreme abortion bands.
In Ohio.
We were the state that had a ten year old rape victim who had to flee the state to get an abortion, and that alone should let people know that abortion care is healthcare. This is the state that I live in so people are very clear whether they're Democrat, Republican, independent, male, female, black, white, abroad. A coalition of folks came out for this election, which is in a local election year traditionally, so typically in local election years, some people like to call them off
election years. I don't believe in off election years. There's no such thing as an off election. Particularly in Ohio. We have elections every single year, often twice primaries in general. So in this local election year, we saw numbers like mid term election numbers, which is unheard of.
Oh so you're seeing a lot of turnarout.
Oh yeah, we were seeing great turnouts. So people are paying attention. What it's telling me, people are paying attention. Issues are still important, and messaging matters. That's what the people are telling me.
Yeah, and that's a really good point. I mean, but you feel like your constituents the sort of number one thing they're struggling with right now is inflation.
Inflation is a challenge and what we have continued to do and continue to fight for in this in this Congress. But I think more successfully obviously in the one hundred and seven with Democrats have the majority, we were able to get some significant things done and so now Molly, it's about implementation. In twenty twenty one, my first vote second day was to cast the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. We know that the Bipartisan Infrastructure Structure Law will yield amazing
job opportunities for years and years to come. This is not something we're just going to see a one or two year benefit. This is going to be for years
and years to come. So I have the utmost confidence that as we talk about inflation and we think about the opportunities that are going to avail themselves when we couple that with the Inflation Reduction Act, with the things that we have already done and that we will be able to do to combat inflation, like the negotiation of the top ten prescription drug prices, negotiating them down, so
again we're putting money back into people's pockets. The rebates that people would be able to receive as it relates to improving and upgrading their homes to make the more energy efficient, lowering their electric bills and gas bills and things like that, those are the real things that will start to hit people's wallet. We're starting to see gas prices come down, but nobody's really talking talking about these things.
The number of people that the President was able to relieve of their student debt, and still we have the Save program for those who did not get that benefit. They can get their student loan payments adjusted based on their income and how many people live in their household, and they won't be impacted by the interest rate, which has also been a hindrance for people. So there are things that are continuing to happen as a result of the one hundred and seventeen Congress to deal with this inflation.
And so I think we'll given a little bit more time, and hopefully by the time this time next year, a little bit sooner, people will be able to say, Okay, I'm feeling the results of this great legislation that was passed during the one hundred and seventeenth Congress to tackle these issues round inflation.
Thank you so much. I hope you'll come back.
I hope you'll have me back.
It was a pleasure bank.
Yes, you're great, really appreciate you. Thank you.
Doug Rushkoff is the author of Survival of the Richest.
So let me tell you, yes, I honestly, honestly, if I could choose anyone with who to sit in the front row at the downfall of civilization, It would be you. I really won't.
I don't know.
I'm listening to you this morning to get thinking. I don't know if you are intervening on behalf of democracy or simply providing palliative care to a dying society. But it feels so good to listen to you, and then to get your email.
We need you.
It's like, oh my god, I want to be part. I'm here, iron here, I'm.
So I want to start by asking you a question which I have been thinking about this entire time, because I wrote this week about this idea of pseudo events, and then my husband Mac Greenfield was talking about this idea of the single lachrum, right, which is this is a little we're getting a little esoteric here.
So well, this is a long, convoluted way to say that.
When I talked to Ben Mazerk, he said that he was pretty sure that Elon Musk believed he was in a simulation revolving around him, and that this is not that unusual for very successful people.
What discuss Well, it's interesting in the last season of Westworld, which was about these robots and all they're like, you know, robot people. One of the leads decides to try to figure out kind of how to save the planet, how to save civilization, So he runs simulations in order to figure out what's the best path. So he spends, like, you know, ten years, running millions and millions of simulations,
trying everything to find out what's the most likely path. So, if you're running millions and millions and millions of simulations in order to figure out which one path to go, it means that there's way, way, way more simulations going on than there are actual realities. Right, So tech bros Figure, since there's so many more simulations going on, it's way more probable that we're just in one of those simulations than we are in a real thing. That's sort of
where they go with it, you know. But they live by probability, right, That's artificial intelligences are what. They're probability engines.
They look for the most probable answer to something that anybody who's stuck completely in the kind of computer mindset, they run everything to get to the most probable outcome, the most probable way of making money, the most probable place to make your bet on the stock market, and they're not living in that weird human in between crazy realm of possibility where us sort of more are humanist kind of thinkers live.
So what does that mean?
Does that mean? What that means?
We are in a simulation. I'm worried that now that you're saying Elon is right.
No, I'm saying that if you're playing a purely probabilistic game, then Elon is right. But you know what, life itself is so highly improbable, right, that something sappened to make this everything great that's happened. You know, life and humans and consciousness and society. These are all improbable things. Even the way that the tech bros have manifested it's highly improbable that you'd get to be Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk.
So on the one hand, they think of themselves as these demi gods, super being better than anybody else, which is highly improbable. And on the other hand, they're playing this computer game that we're living in a world dictated by probability, and it just it doesn't hold up right. It's so self contradictory. But these are not normal people. They don't think in normal ways. They didn't ground themselves emotionally right. They didn't develop personalities the way most of
us did. They kind of leaned into certain aspects of their autism to become a kind of a distanced systems thinker where they look at the world much more like everybody or just little iron filings moving back and forth between the magnetic poles of these super beings you know that are them and Musk and viz Us and Zuckerberg.
Elon went to Israel yesterday as a response to being called antisemitic. Maybe I don't know, I mean, does he just want to keep everyone's attention? Is there something more that I'm missing? Explained to me? What's happening here?
Well, I think Elon Musk thinks of himself a bit like the King that when he kind of bought Twitter and turns it into x and became the new troll in chief, kind of replaced Trump as the planet's chief troll. And I think he does. You know, I don't think he's as evil as all that. I think he's more whimsical but very very powerful. So he sees a tweet and he goes, yeah, that sounds right, and he retweets it at the moment, and it's like dude, what are
you doing? Like, you know, whether it's you know, Pelosi's husband, you know, is attacked by a gay lever. That sounds good. Let's see what that does. It's also great for business in a certain way. It's great for business if your business is to generate excitement and inflammation and you know, and get people tweeting and commenting, then sure, you know
the same as it's good for business. For Trump. It gets his base all excited, so he'll retweet things and generate hubbub and then right his advertisers want to leave.
So what does he do?
A kind of a listening tour on the Middle East? Right, this good friend baby net and Yahoo. You know, you also just he keeps who just keeps saying there will never be two states. It's like, do you really want to be saying that just out in the open. You know, at least we know where he stands. But it's bizarre. But yeah, he goes and walks through See I like Jews. It's all good. Remember I'm from another apartheid state.
You know.
It's such a strange phenomenon to have this person was so much power. So he does control like half of the satellites in the country, right, I know.
I mean that's the thing that I keep thinking, is like there's a real difference between the kind of robber barons of today versus those of the of the original Gilded Age, you know, because I was looking at that, they really are not. Musk is not richer than JP Morgan was, you know, not balanced for inflation. These guys are not richer, but they seem so much more powerful.
And I think it's because they have this almost horizontal power. Right, Musk doesn't just own Twitter X. He owns Tesla and Space and Starlink and the Boring Company and Solar City and Neuralink and Xai and he's trying to build another finance company. So yeah, So he owns Starlink, which is like the main satellite system that we use for surveillance and spying. So he had the ability to tell Ukraine, Okay, I'll give you the ability to see this far into Russia,
but no further than that. Or he can go to Israel to say, okay, you know, I'll let you see this part of Gaza, but maybe not that. And that's weird for a tech bro dude to have, you know, kind of almost the ability to grant powers or not to international militaries.
Do you think that part of what.
Has created Elon Musk and also this tech pro overclass which controls things that normal citizens should probably not control. Do you think that that is because of a lack of government regulation.
Which certainly doesn't help. And it's interesting ed the brilliance of some of these guys, like you look at a Sam Altman who begs for government regulation is for them by the time they turn around and say we want government regulation, it's because they can write the regulation to favor their own businesses. Right, So once you get to the monopoly stage, you go, okay, let's have regulation. Let's make sure all the important players have a place at the table and no one else can get in. You know,
that's like a classic move. So when you see one of these guys actually going to Congress and saying, Okay, I think it's time, that's because there they realize they have no more competitive advantage, that the way their technology works could be repeated by someone else, so quickly create regulations that prevent anyone else from having enough money to get in to get in on this thing. So, yeah, it's partly that and I think it's partly really capitalism itself.
I really believe when people are talking about AI as this threat and they're worried about it, really what they're talking about is capitalism. It's not the AI, the technology it's in this case, it's the content. It's what are you running? What's the AI running on? The AI is running on, you know, the same corporate capitalist model of the East India Training Company, you know, sixteen hundred.
Yeah, I mean that is what is really strange and disturbing. What would your solutions be for this kind of problem?
Right? Like?
I mean, you have Elon Musk he is getting increasingly i want to say, right wing. He controls fifty percent of the satellites. We already know that he's done things like in Ukraine, decided he was sort of going to take Russia's side, right or we don't totally know, but there's some evidence to support that he may have made high level security decisions about his satellites that technically you might not want a private citizen making. I mean, are there sort of solutions that you can think of for
this that go beyond regulation? I mean my sense as the government is just doing too little here you know, I don't know.
Yeah, I'm not as good at the government side as the cultural side. And what I can tell you is that these guys are desperate for our approval and adulation. That they really look at themselves like demigods, like comic book heroes of a certain sort. And there is a tinkerbell quality to any demigod where you know, if you're not worshiping at their altar, they will do whatever they have to to get us to worship at their altar.
They want our love, and I think the way we redirect some of their behaviors is by withdrawing and withholding our worship. I mean, it was hard, as a professional writer whatever just to go screw this. I'm leaving x Twitter.
This is just not right.
I don't want to feed into this, and I need to make get okay for other people to not be there either. It's okay to leave the man's platform if you don't like the man, because he's turned it into an extension of this ridiculous, crazy personality. It's a matter of us personally and culturally, socially and civically not adopting their effective altruist, almost quasi eugenic understanding of the world.
But I'm thinking it's it's not adopting this every man for him self mindset that they have, you know, feeling confident to meet our neighbors and not depend on digital social networks to interact with other people. It will take time, that's sort of the slow path, but certainly regulate, certainly empowered government or I hate to say it, you know, the Pentagon or whoever it is, it's supposed to be
making the decisions rather than him. But it's also not focusing so much on these guys as our own cultural heroes, you know, as our own exemplars. That's I think almost tougher for people than voting.
Yeah, I mean that is so true.
They're laughable, right, These are clowns, Musk challenging Zuckerberg to a cage match. I mean really, and they go back and forth on it.
Is this real?
You know, these guys believing that the Earth is the fuel that they're going to use to get off the planet in order to actually survive beyond us or promote the human future. This effective altruist idea that the human beings who are alive today are just the larval stage of humanity and the only the ones that matter are going to be the ones that fly off. These are
crazy people, right, These are nuts people. That's Sam Altman, that's Musk, that's steal And these guys are in charge of the technology that we believe is going to be the you know, the next big thing. They the ais that are going to rule our world. He's like, no way.
Do you think the quick decision in the Sam Bankman Freed trial and the fact that he is likely going to go to jail SBF. Yeah, I think he's actually in jail, right, Yeah, that that has had some kind of effect on the tech pros because I mean that crew was saying, oh, he'll never get punished because he's a Democrat, which is not even true.
He donated to both parties or do you think that really that did not have any effect on them.
I think it was a little sacrificial lamb. Sam Bankman Freed was involved in the most overt style of tech broism, right, he was actually working with the money itself. So I think they feel insulated because they're in fantasy businesses you know that are there are that are unrelated. There's sort of one step removed from the raw money lender and
my money changer, Sam Bankman freed in some ways. The interesting thing was after the SBF and then the also the Silicon Valley bank failure, tech pro generosity changed a lot. A lot of my friends in the nonprofit world are having a whole lot harder time I'm getting funded than they did before those two financial events. So I feel like the people who are into sort of digital finance
have been chasened. But the people who are, you know, doing this kind of crazy world building, I don't think they're they're at all of it.
Sam Altman ai discuss.
That was an interesting one, right, So it's funny, you know, there's this story we're all familiar with now, this trope of the sort of the ousted CEO and the CEO had the original true, you know dream of the company, and they get kicked out by the capitalists, and the capitalists end up kind of failing, and then their original dream CEO comes back, like you know, Steve Jobs came
back and rescued the true soul of Apple. Well, the Sam Altman story is that in reverse, right, there was a board of directors of this sort of non profity cap profit company. You've got to have a hybrid company that was trying to do good, and they had a board of directors who felt responsible to humanity. That the real mission of this company was not to build AI, but the underlying ultimate mission was to make sure AI did not harm humanity, that AI would be benevolently deployed.
And they were getting concerned that Sam Altman and the business people were sacrificing that important ethical mission for the idea of making money. Right, the employees, they all want an IPO so they can cash out and make a
ton of money. Sam Altman realized he's on the top and was really looking at From the best I can tell talking to my friends is that he was looking at adding a new way for AI to work, so that AI wouldn't just be using language models, but was going to start using math to figure stuff out for real.
And could kill us, all right, Right, Well, OU to killer to.
Do whatever it's going to do, but to grow, right, And between Altman and Microsoft and the employees, they were starting to look at money first, right, the real program, which is capitalism. Right, Capitalism the ultimate most powerful AI. Right. So this was not a CEO kicked out by capitalism.
It was a CEO being kicked out by the anti capitalists, by the ones who were saying, wait a minute, we got to put on the brakes here by a board of directors who actually was acting so ethically they thought, even if this kills the company, it's what we have to do because we can't let this bad thing happen. And so he gets kicked out. But the capitalists when and all the employees go, no, wait a minute. We want our money, we want our stuff. We like our
tech bro. You know, he's got a great personality, and look he's talking about being responsible. Come on, and they push him right back in, right, and then the board members are gone. We really looked at the real way that capitalism kind of took over a company through its original CEO.
So interesting. Thank you so much, Doug Rushkoff. I hope you'll come back.
Oh, thank you, no moment.
Jesse Cannon, Mali jog Fest.
You know, it's always nice when a network gives out an endorsement, because you're like, that's the thing, but then never mind to somebody who has absolutely no chance. But then it inspires a lot of backbitting. What are you seeing here?
Coke Network, which only one Coke is alive still has decided to get behind Nicky Haley. This is a pretty interesting phenomenon we're watching happen in real time, which is Republicans have discovered and sort of figured out that DeSantis cannot win, and so they're trying to coalesce behind someone who they think could conceivably win the nomination. And Nicki Haley has done really well in this primary contest. She's not my pick, but she's much more charismatic and less
insane than Ron DeSantis. But what I think is interesting is the Koch brothers. You know, they're desperate not to have Biden have a second term because remember there's all this progressive spending government spending which they hate, right and the dream of a lot of these Republicans is to get rid of Obamacare and to kill the Social Safety Net for once and for all. And so Republicans have decided they're going to get behind Nikki Hilly. And my gas is that over the next couple weeks and months
you're going to see more of that. But Donald Trump is not going away. As much as Republicans have long to wish him away, you cannot wish Donald Trump away. And that is why this entire fiasco is our moment of fuckery. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.