Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, where we discussed the top political headlines with some of today's best minds. And Dems have won the empty congressional seat in New Mexico, giving them the final signature for the discharge petition for the Epstein files. We have such a great show for you today, talking fed's own Harry Litman stops by to explain to us why when you lose the public's trust you can never get it back.
Then we'll talk to Congresswoman Haley Stevens about her run for the open Senate seat in Michigan and her plans to impeach RFK Junior. Plus, we have a bonus conversation with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer about his plan for this upcoming government shutdown showdown. But first the news, Molly, we're all Argentina.
Now we are bailing them out.
And turns out psychotic libertarian text breaks as for the rich, don't save an economy, Yeah, whether there's just a bad haircut running around with a chainsaw.
So why we are going to bail out Argentina with a twenty billion dollars swap line to help contain financial upheaval and support presidently. I don't know why. I don't understand why. I don't think we should. I'm against bailouts. If we're going to spend money, why don't we spend it on cancer research and food stamps and rural hospitals. This is just completely stupid. It makes no sense. We're
going to buy Argentinian dollar bonds FYI. Meanwhile, the dollar has had its worst year in decades and decades, such as stupid, stupid, shortsighted. I don't even know what we're doing here, but needless to say, it's stupid, so the Trump administration wants to do it.
I think it's really kind of poetic that libertarians, who hate croni capitalism more than anything, they were championing this guy. His stuff fails, and now he's getting saved by checksnotes cardi capitalism.
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, this is all so bad, by the way. It's like, at every point this administration always does the stupidest possible thing, and whether it's cutting funding for research and science and healthcare and weather. I mean, you know, we read Project twenty twenty five, so we knew this was coming. And yet still and I remember thinking when we read it, we did that documentary on it. I remember thinking like, what do I get from the
federal government? Like I remember thinking like what will go away when Trump is in office? Like I remember thinking, well, my kids, my kids don't go to public schools. That's Department of Education. So like just going through the sort of mass on what I personally get from the federal government besides like streets, and what I think is like, there's so much stuff that we get from the federal government that you don't know you're missing until you're gone,
like safety, air quality, water quality, accurate weather. You know, there are all these billionaires who are really excited for a kind of federal government that doesn't really do anything for anyone because they think that somehow, like they'll pay less taxes and they'll get by. But you can't privatize air quality testing, you know. I mean, I guess you could,
but we're not at that moment. It's so shortsighted of these people to think that somehow they can swap out the federal government for some kind of like tax bone. I mean, it's just such an incredibly dystopian and depressing view of the federal government and Ultimately, we're going to see why we have all these things in place sooner rather than later. I am afraid.
Well, Wiley, that's so nice of you to queue me up, because our next news story is about how the Trump administration has had to rehire hundreds of federal employees that were laid off by dose.
Yeah. My favorite part about this is like this is costing. I mean, it's not my favorite part, but it is. The great irony is it's costing them so much money. Right, they're firing people, they're re hiring them, they're paying for them to have like these paid leave. They just don't understand what the federal government does. So what they do is they keep like firing people and then learning that these are things they can't somehow farm out. It's incredible.
Yeah, some of the details in here of like the least cancelations and all these things, it's just like it's so much stupid administrative work and just so ridiculously dumb.
It's just ridiculous, and it's also you know, it's expensive. There are ways to make the government work better. This was never about that. This was always about just trying to like disassemble the federal government and now it turns out that a lot of these things you actually need right, and FYI was fraud and abuse was actually just like stuff we don't like, helping poor kids.
Yeah, another pattern we're really seeing these days is people jumping to conclusions fast. Yesterday there was an incident where there was both a broken telet prompter and a broken escalator at the UN for mister Trump and Jesse Waters of Fox News joke that they should bomb and gas the UN. You know, it is one of those things where I hesitate to label to joke where he kind of just says a really dumb thing and then they kind of just smirk about it because they really don't
care enough to get anything right. But it seems between this and this the latest shootings, that we never know anything early and no one's learning the lessons of the past. They're just spinning out takes as fast as they can and for their own advantage.
You know. One of the things we see with Trump is like he had all these remember when he was trying to get a Nomo Peace Prize. I mean, he's still trying to get a Nomo Peace Prize, but he was trying harder and he had all these people come to the White House, and then he ended up alienating India because he was like, they were so mad when he said you made peace between India and Pakistan, which wasn't true, but he made them so mad. I feel
like this is what it is like. You can either be a poster and there's honor in being a poster. Well maybe not honor, but you know, or you could run the federal government. But you actually cannot both post real time events and run the federal government. I mean it's like Trump when he you know, when he saved the reveal of who killed Charlie Kirk for Fox and Friends.
Remember that they had known before. I mean it was a whole week ago, right, they had known before, but he wanted to wait until it was all teed up. I'm sorry. Like, you either run the federal government or you break news. You cannot do both.
Speaking of his posting, he absolutely lost it over Jimmy Kimmel's return last night.
This is not super surprising, though it is interesting and a lot of people noted this online. Basically, he has
no deniability. Now, the White House was told by ABC that his show was canceled, so this makes it sound as if the White House is colluding with ABC to cancel Jimmy Kimmel's show, which means that the White House can no longer deny that they had the inside track on this, which means that if Jimmy Kimmel wants to sue, I mean, like, at every point, Donald Trump's posting kind of undermines any of the other stuff he's doing here.
So if they want a deniability, if they wanted to get kim off the air, if they wanted this not to blow up in his face, you know, you wouldn't have had Brendan Carr on Benny Johnson's podcast being like, we can do this the easy way, or we can do this the hard way. That's what this is, like Donald Trump's I can't believe ABC, fake news gave kim all his job back. The White House was told by ABC that his show was canceled. Something happened between now
and then, because so there you go. But it is funny though he just is so mad about talent and audience ratings.
Friend of the Show Swin's assessment of Caddy stage Mom Rings in my ears every single day is.
Trill is incredible. Harry Lipman is a former US attorney and the host of the podcast Talking Fads.
Hello, Hello Loo, everyone, Welcome to this month's Molly Harry mash Up Politics and Law, in which I get to ask Mally dong Fasts political questions she gets to parry with some legal ones. Maully dong Fast. I gotta say A needs no introduction. B is often short on time, so I think we should just jump right into it. I got a Kimmel question for you, if I could
start there, Mollie. So, Trump reacts to the suspension with triumph, though we know in court he would say, oh, it's not us, but he certainly seems to take credit for it. But now that Kimmel has been reinstated, Trump is chagrined, but it's not clear he has any cards to play. Still, does it play as a loss for him with the base? And does he need now somehow to try to scramble to do directly get kim off the air what he tried to support or do obliquely before.
So here's what I would say about the kim Ol situation. I don't see a clear way out of this for Trump. Either he forces Kim off the air, which will be the world's biggest lawsuit, huge pain for him, signs of authoritarianism and.
A flat out First Amendment violation, no two ways about it.
But we'll go back besides that, and they'll come careening into the Supreme Court where the Supreme Court will have to stand up to Trump, which they don't want to do, which is inevitably coming. But there's no way that the MAGA crew on that court is going to be like, yeah, you can just take stuff you don't like off the air.
I mean even they will be like no. So it's hard for me to see where the off ramp is for this, But I think probably Trump just goes on and ignores it, and you know, does some mean tweets. I think it's hard for me to see him keeping going. I mean, the good news for him is that when things happen that he can't deal with, he just distracts from them. That's my take.
Well declares victory and moves on.
Right, Yeah, right, I want you to talk to us about you used to be in such demand, but now that we have an administration that no longer cares about the law, it doesn't matter what the law is, because whatever right.
I'm a man without a country. That's right.
I mean, don't you feel like there's so many moments where you're like, well, obviously this is a legal bot discuss.
You know, I don't. I wish I felt that way a little bit more. Every week there are legal outrages. And I've said this to you before, Mollie. My main job I think of as trying to educate, explain the dangers and the like. And you know, this week alone, Kimmel and the prospect of censorship home and the prospect of two tier or three tier justice, the Supreme Court just coming in and without making it clear, just nevertheless overruling a ninety year precedent. I actually find legally, You're right,
they don't care. You know, I've totally kind of changed the stuff. But I'm really all about the new kind of independent channel of substack and YouTube, and I do just a little bit of TV. But I think the lost stuff is flying at us fast and furious. It will continue to fly at US fast and furious because what Trump is doing is basically corrupting different areas of law everywhere. Humphrey's executor, that's a pretty darn legal arcane thought.
From nineteen thirty five, you got to explain it, and it's a huge deal practically, and my kind of my feel is a little bit the hounesome. My feel is this authoritarianism is like a little boring. But it's my job to say, well, this was a big one. Firing Seabert,
this was a big one. And I find there's still like plenty to talk about, even as I also feel that like we are just trudging on into the end of the Constitution and we're gonna have a showdown, just as you said in about a year with the Supreme Court. Do people still want to hear the legal outrages of the week, but they are there these legal outrages, So yeah, I don't feel like under utilized.
Right, there's a shooting at an ice facility. They killed these immigrants, no law enforcement, but they found these bullets maybe cash Betel tweeted a picture of the bullets. Talk us through this. And also it seems to me, like what I keep going back to is it feels like this administration and Trump more generally, has squandered any kind of benefit of the doubt.
Exactly right, And man, oh man, think about that for a minute. So yesterday is it the White House formal representative says, Homan never did this, and then other people say they did. Before Trump, you'd at least say wow, there's just saying, you know, flat out, you give them maybe the benefit of the doubt or a better word that I think applies a lot to prosecutions Molly, presumption of regularity. They did it. The case came out, the grand jury said, so we presume regularity and we take
it from there. Let's see your proof. Guess what, there's no presumption of regularity. And judges are calling that out. Grand juries in DC are saying we're not going to actually give you a true bill, which is stunning. It's happened to me once in my career. They did it like seven times last week. They don't trust them, and they don't trust them for a very good reason. They've
been ten times burned. Of course, there was going to be that picture of the Epstein in the Epstein birthday book, etc. So I just want to say, there's a lot of things that you know as a DOJ type, and that is where my stripes are. I get really sad about what's happening, but this you just can't can't but be morose because people over decades build up this advantage. So when you go and say, Molly Jong fast for the United States, it really means something. Guess what it is
all squandered now and a whole big thing. I hope maybe you'll join. I want to think about at least to give some kind of alloy to people who are, you know, relentlessly down. What might it look like to try to clean this humongous mess up on the other side. But that's a good one, right, It doesn't You're not going to like, oh Trump goes and now you stand
up and everyone's gonna trust you. They are besides breaking the law, breaking the constitution, being completely unfair, they have absolutely squandered generation's worth of goodwill from the Department of Justice. And it's just not the kind of thing that you just, you know, start up again with once the if the bad guys leave town. Okay, I got so much for Molly, but here's a little, a short one. I love these Trumps from back on. Everyone says, Everyone says, it was
a perfect call. Everyone says, so here's his Everyone says, Everyone says that I should get the Nobel Peace Prize for each one of these achievements. And I guess my question to you politically is this will sound like it's not serious. It is? Which is is he serious?
You know?
Is the space now looking for this is? Are think going to agitate when surprise surprised he doesn't get the Nobel Peace Prize, And I don't know what he'd get it for, right, you know, just yesterday totally switches directions on Ukraine. He's no leader in the Middle East, Ukraine, China, anywhere else, but real fantasy, What the what the what the heck? He's going around saying, everyone says I should get the Nobel Peace Press.
This is such a good topic because actually I was reading the Washington Post earlier though. Jesse just sent this to me where it says it twenty two percent of all Americans think Trump deserves it Nobel Peace Price. But I don't think this is not for the base, right, the Nobel Priests prize stuff. They don't care, is that right? I don't think there's any world in which they care. It's like his obsession with Hollywood. I mean, I get
that he feels that politics is downstream of culture. But ultimately, what I think we're seeing here is he's seventy nine years old, and he has certain things he's very stuck on from living in New York, and they include Deborah Messing Ratings Award shows, stuff that isn't necessarily stuff that I think the base really cares about. And then there's stuff the base really cares about. The Nobel Prize is I think he hates Obama. He's mad when people laugh
at him. Obama did this thing where he remember he spoke at the White House correspondence dinner. I mean, look, the irony is maybe it's not the original sin because Trump was on the birth certificate thing before Obama, so ultimately, really Trump did start it. But the point of this is that he hates being laughed at. And so I think part of the part of where we are at this moment is that he's kind of trying to get revenge.
And human said that when he was running for president, remember and like people be like, no, no, You're not going to seek revenge, and he was like, no, no.
I am yesterday. I hate my opponents.
Right, Charlie. I loved his opponents, but I hate them. So I think this is, you know, he wants to win a Nobel Peace Prize because he feels like then people will stop laughing at him. It goes back to this what we saw at the UN where the first time Trump spoke at the UN, he was laughed at, and this time he spoke at the UN and he was basically like, I'm so powerful. I've you know, I'm more powerful than the institution. I can cut all this forlornade.
You have nothing to laugh at because it's so scared. I think that's real. I think that drives a lot of where we are right now.
Yeah, you're trying to.
Trump fired this guy in the Eastern District because he wanted him to prosecute his enemies, and maybe because the Komi case is about to be out of statute of limitations right that if they want to prosecute it. It's now basically what we've seen is these people like they don't want to they don't want to go forward with fake cases, which is what Trump wants, but they will dismiss cases that are against Trump's people, so like the
Eric Adams case. So it seems like we have a real disconnect here with the stuff where the administration just wants to make stuff up versus wants to let stuff go. So do you think Trump is going to be able to find So now he's going to put maybe he's going to try to put a one of his you know, parking lawyers or one of his you know, the people who don't know better in that job. But do you think that we're going to see a world where they start just making up stuff? I mean, what do you
think that looks like? And also do you think that there's a mechanism for that, right? Because there are grand juries. I mean, there are a number of hurdles that you have to get past if you're making up fake stuff.
Yeah, so glad you asked this question, what does it look like the ninth circle of hell Mala. We hear about all these different outrages, doj and I'm here to tell you nothing, nothing, Nothing could be worse than making shit up against an innocent person in order to just bring criminal charges that aren't there against a political enemy. Start with the first principle in the US Attorney's Manual,
Start with the constitution. Making stuff up, it's like a quarter inch away from just taking people and disappearing them. This is the soul of autocracy. And even though it is also a complete dereliction of the same rule to force. The dismissal of a righteous case still better ten guilty walk than one innocent person. So the combination of stuff
here no facts and you can't no facts. I can't tell you how far fundamental that you know DNA here that when Seabird and its worst assistants say no facts, no facts. Even now right in the White House, Levitt said, well, what do they do? They weaponized the justin That's not what's your federal crime. The federal crime is make shit up. It's just couldn't be worse. And because it's a Trump enemy, now just very quickly to the practical question, will they be able to do it? I mean, he's so imbecilic.
He's given a huge bat to Komy Schiff, for James, anybody who's indicted to say this isn't bona fide. So you know, if this happens, A, I think they're very vulnerable, and B it's the most nauseating, bottom bottom, bottom, rock bottom thing that can happen. I wrote a sub a couple of days ago. You know, Donald Trump in the ninth circle of hell.
But it also when you see that kind of thing where you no longer trust what the administration is trying to do as I think we're seeing Trump sort of say the quiet part out loud when we talk about the Kimmel stuff.
Which nobody ever ever has that because you can't say it because it's the same as saying, you know, all get rid of our democracy. Right, So stunning to former prosecutors. What happened to your molly? And I know that office, I worked in that office, and yeah, unbelievable.
So with the tweet where he said, you know, I'm firing this guy because you won't find the stuff I want, and then he said with the Kimmel stuff, you know, we were told it was canceled and now it's not. Both of these things are technically admissible in court.
Right.
Can you talk us through that? What that means?
Yeah, I just very briefly, they've got an absolute golden set up motion. It probably doesn't go to the jury, it goes to the judge, and you say, up front, judge, throw this shit out. Now, it's so obvious selective prosecution. You put all this stuff up, you maybe get to
depose some people. The disconnect here, Molly, is that for all his peak and all the way said, nobody is making a claim that any of these guys committed a federal crime, you stand him up in front of the court and swear you know, this guy did these things, and but you don't have a federal crime. So it's a lie, and the most serious, unjust kind of lie that a prosecutor can tell. So I you know, I think Trump did that thing where he actually had a sort of email a bondy, but it came out as
a truth. Social you read that, you're going to set up They're going to be motion after motion. That's going to make this harder. But I just want to start with you know that my head going three hundred and sixty degrees, and that of any former prosecutor I know doesn't get worse. Okay, my quick question to you another topic. Look, we're always told you don't understand maga well enough you look down at them, you really have to think of them,
and they're and they're you know, true concern et cetera. Yeah, maybe there's five percent who are nuts, et cetera, butt autism, RFK thailand al in pregnancy, right, I mean it's like bleach cures COVID. It's so bad people will probably die as you analyze and discern his base. Do we think that that that I assume you'll say a lot of
people don't care or just do it. Do we think there's I don't know twenty percent thirty percent who say I support Trump or I hated Kamala Harris, but I am not anti science, and this is you know, he's a yoko, it's a joke. Or for all his base do the okay, you know, thailandol and pregnancy whatever.
Here's what I would say, talent on and pregnancy whatever. I think this makes more sense if you think of RFK as like a political actor and not as a public health person. So he has a base he wants to me cappy. Trump has a base he wants to make happy. Some amount of trump Ism is maha, probably not as much as we think because they're pretty loud and very online. Vaccines are an eighty twenty issue, so maybe there are seventy thirty issue. I think this hurts
more than it helps. Also, Tile and all, I mean like Johnson and that family was huge drump doners do, which is hilarious. And I just don't think that's the boogeyman they want it. There are all sorts of reasons why it's very destructive to tell women they caused autism by digging tile in all, which.
Is not because not just I mean, they're children, right, geez.
Yeah.
And also that there's not any evidence to support it. That's also a problem. But I don't know that it scratches the itch the way that they are hoping it does. I do think like Trump really did was very negative on vaccines, and he said things like we're going to break it up, it's too much liquid. I mean, that stuff was crazy, but it was also maybe what Magabase wants. I don't know. I mean, it's hard for me to see.
This is another thing which I think is like kind of a boondot while that he's going to get stuck in. You tell people not to vaccinate their kids, their kids will die. You're gonna have outbreaks even with the measles stuff. So you can keep people happy with that live for only for so long before the bill comes due. So I just think it's a very tough line to walk. RFK Junior is very good at speaking in a way that's just very good at obfuscating in a way that
Trump maybe even isn't. Like Trump just says stuff, but he gets away with it because people think he's funny or because whatever, because we've all lost our minds. But RFK is able to say things about things that never answer the question in a way that I think it works very well for him. But ultimately I think I don't know how he does this, And ultimately I think you're going to see RFK really come into closion with
Trump because these are both very ambitious people. I don't think Trump is ready to a point, and heir apparent, especially not one that is named Trump.
Those are my questions. So fun always to talk to you and get our quick back and forth. Boom boom boom. Shall we call it for September and yeah around Halloween.
Yeah, I think we're good. Congresswoman Haley Stevens represents Michigan's eleventh district and is a candidate for the Senate in Michigan. Welcome to past politics, Congresswoman.
Haley Stevens, Thank you, Mollie.
You have some news you want to tell us about. Talk to us about what you're introducing right now. Yeah.
Look, it is very clear that we have a quack at the head of Health and Human Services, as a Senate confirmed secretary who is endangering the lives of Americans, our children, our elderly. He is listening to conspiracy theories. He is spouting conspiracy theories. He is cutting cancer research and scientific research programs, and enough is enough. He has allied to senators to get confirmed and in addition to calling on RFK to resign, I am going to be introducing articles of impeachment.
Molly, let's accept to both and it. Let's yos for people. Yeah, let's talk about articles of impeachment. Vaccines are an eighty twenty issue. We all know that from that would spring the idea that impeaching RFK Junior would actually be possible. Tell us what it looks like to put out articles of impeachment. I'm drafting them and I'm calling for it
because I'm truly sick and tired of this mess. What we saw yesterday accusing tail and all of causing autism, the pain that I am hearing from medical professionals who I know, from constituents who are impacted by this. It's just not right.
And the fact is it was on record that he lied to senators and he is continuing to lie. He is firing people who disagree with him. I want to bring this debate forward because I'm a sitting member of Congress on behalf of the great people of Michigan who only see their costs going up, ACA subsidies going away. Seven hundred thousand Michiganers might lose their healthcare. RFK Junior creating all this conspiracy. It's not working for people. It
needs to be called out. And there are authorities that I have access to as a member of Congress, and I want to say enough is enough, and I want to get this out there, and that's why I'm introducing these articles.
So the senator you're talking about is doctor Bill Cassidy, who is the doctor and who really was the deciding vote in his nomination made RFK sort of promise that he wasn't going to go after the vaccines. What happened during that insane tialinal announcement was that, in fact, Donald
Trump went after the vaccines. But RFK has really undermined a lot of the infrastructure when it comes to MR and a research and the NIAH is lying to a senator an impeachable offense, and if so, is their way to use that for the impeachment.
I believe it is. And I also believe endangering the health and safety of Americans is impeachable as well. And what we are getting over and over again is just not serving us. It's not acceptable when you ignore decades of scientific research and the ways in which doctors, true scientists, true medical professionals have put forward research. What authority does
he have to cut this off? And Look, this moment calls for bold leadership, and that is what I am looking to bring to the people of Michigan and to this country to write the ship. It's even been reported that the President has felt a little shaky with RFK and we've called on him to resign. This has become a big distraction. He continues to stand by him. We've got coequal branches of government. We only are seeing this
administration abuse their power. And I've got to act within the prism of the reality that I am in right now as a lawmaker. And that's why I'm introducing these articles of impeachment.
Can you get Republican support?
Well, Look, I have been named consistently an effective lawmaker. I was just named the most effective Democratic lawmaker for Michigan last term in a Republican Congress, and this has got to be common sense, and I do believe that putting this forward is certainly going to make people question. And I don't see why the entire Republican conference is going to stand by this, just as they're standing by
cuts to people's healthcare, rising costs on people. I've also introduced legend that I'm hoping to get Republicans on board with on a different topic. But this is no tariffs on food legislation that I have written, because guess what, the costs are only going up at the grocery store, Mollie. We've got one point three trillion dollars of credit card debt in this country. People are putting the grocery bill
on the credit card. These should be a bipartising conversation to lower costs on people and RFK Junior, in addition to wreaking havoc on public health protocols, his leadership is also causing costs to go up for people in terms of their healthcare.
It looks like there's a shutdown's going to happen. It looks like Democrats want it. What is the thinking care?
Yeah, I can tell you exactly what I'm thinking, which is, as these costs are continuing to go up. Seven hundred thousand Michiganders at threat of losing their health care the premiums because the ACA subsidies have gone away. I've talked to employers and providers about this, who have had to tell their employees that their healthcare costs are going up. This is not acceptable. I need the deal for Michiganders
in any budget. And when this administration just acts outside of the bounds of the lawmaking process over and over again, why should we be expected to go along with it? I certainly can't on behalf of the people of Michigan, and that's what I'm pushing for.
But a government shutdown will give the executive brand more power. There's an argument to be made that respot executive brand wants the government shut down because they can do a lot of crazy extra judicial stuff. There aren't you worried about that?
Well, I'm worried about Michiganders and what's happening before my very eyes. I'm running for United States Senate in Michigan. I spent this summer on a tour all across my state, hearing real impact stories people who didn't expect to be put in this position. And so what I can push for in this moment is the best deal for my state. This administration needs to come to the table, period, full stop.
We can't sit by while people are being pushed around because we're doing tax cuts for the five billionaires that exists in my state at the expense of everyone else. We've got rising unemployment, rising costs. It's not working and we need better. And the only wake up is for the folks to come to the table. And I'm coming to the table each and every single day for Michigan.
I don't know how you negotiate with someone who's not negotiating in good faith. So they shut down the government. Right, there's an ask for this healthcare money. Explain to us what the ask is and sort of where we are with this shutdown.
We can take immediate steps to lower costs. We are seeing this be by partisan on the Affordable Care Act, getting rid of the subsidies have cost people immediately. There is the future point around Medicaid and cuts to Medicaid which will strip Michiganders. What I can do in this moment and why I'm running for Senate, why I'm working so hard as a member of Congress on behalf of people of Michigan is I am standing up for my people.
And that's what I.
Can articulate to those who will be in that in that lawmaking table. I took a vote in the House, and they know they need us. If they need us, they need to give us something. This has been an unbelievable abuse of power. Why should it be rubber stamped at the expense of hard working Michiganders, people who's earned benefits are on the line. What's happening to food assistance? It's outrageous, It's outrageous.
Yeah, no, I agree. So leadership, Democratic leadership made a day to meet with Trump. Trump canceled at who knows why. Right now, the polling sort of shows that the shutdown will be more on Trump than on Democrats, but we don't it is it always is on Trump. What is Donald Trump doing to cut a deal for Michigan. Let me let me narrow this down for you for a minute outside the budget conversation, because you're going and I understand what you're saying, which is what's just a question?
Yeah, and well, and he doesn't want to negotiate. I mean, he's not working with his own lawmakers, you know, which is out of his own party, you know, and you can't act like this. But take take another example here, these tariffs, these blanket excessive tariffs that change by the minute. Fifty five announcements in one hundred days, in the first
one hundred days, they're still coming. Now we see this president out there on the world stage, you know, trying to push everybody around, claim he's cutting a deal here and there. I right now in the state of Michigan, in witnessing some of the fastest growing unemployment in the Union. Just another announcement this morning of more manufacturing jobs lost.
Molly.
I represent a really unique part of this country in terms of what drives Michigan is economy, and that's our industrial base. It is a precious sector that needs to be treated with care and respect. That is not happening right now. So you know what I have said to this administration is I can't go along right now. I can't give you my vote on this stuff until you're willing to come to the table. The same thing is
at play right now on healthcare. He needs us. This is a wake up moment for Donald Trump and his outrageous leadership style, which has been an abuse of power, and so really nice for him to say, Okay, I'm not going to sit down with the Democratic leaders He's not going to sit down with Michigan and Ers. He and JD. Vance come here. They have these things, own rallies. They're not talking to the small businesses. It's not working.
And so you know what this is called accountability. We didn't have this shutdown in the previous administration.
I guess. But the question I think is who are the stakes higher for? And I don't know, but Democrats have not pulled ahead in this, like I think the base is mad, and I'm curious about two things. One is, so, why do you think the base is unhappy? And what do you think leadership can do to win them back? And do you think that leadership is just not meeting the moment.
Well, I can tell you what I'm doing, which is I'm out here running for a very competitive US Senate seat Mike Rogers, who came very close last time, who's been very clear that he wants to rubber stamp the Trump agenda, who has already been endorsed by Donald Trump, raking in billions of dollars from Texas oil tycoons and the like, that needs to be stopped. That's not going
to work for the people of Michigan. In my legislative role right now, what I am doing as I am putting up my hand and I am introducing legislation stop Trump's abuse of power, the Taxpayer Data Protection Act to put guardrails up on Elon Musk going into the private taxpayer database. I'm also introducing legislation called no tariff on food, just introduced one, standing up, how do you come again?
This is a leadership moment for me in the Michigan and I am absolutely in a rigorous dialogue with voters whose trust I am seeking to earn. I do that by listening and leading. You know, I have certainly flip seats one tough elections, stood up time and time again. That's the role that I can play in terms of the other dynamics right now. You know, look, there's a lot of pundits who've got a lot of thoughts. But I invite everyone to come to Michigan. See Hailey Stevens
on the campaign trail for United States Senate. Get involved, Hailey BRETMI dot com.
Yeah, so when you were saying that people you meet on the trail are happy with leadership and they feel that. I mean, my question is more of a question, not you know, it strikes me the people who I talk to seem really mad at leadership and they feel like they're not being led. Now, I think your impeachment of RFK Junior are trying to do that. That's the kind of stuff people want, right and they want Democrats to try. They want them to try. That's what I hear from everyone.
So this seems to very much be in line with that. But my question for you is more like Senate seats are precious. If you're going to be a senator, are you going to go in there and be like we I've seen some senators go in there and be a complete disaster. I'm thinking about Fetterman, just a complete disaster. If you're going to get this precious Senate seat from a very pretty blue state, like, will you take that and really fight for your constituents? I mean, will you
make the hard calls to your friends? You know? Yeah? And I can't.
I can tell you that I had a tour this summer called maid in Michigan, and I was meeting folks where they were at in their places of work, at picnics, in the neighborhoods. And the number one concern that I have heard over and over and over again is people are freaked out about rising costs and an administration that isn't doing anything about it. Let me give you an example.
In the first month of the Trump administration, a fully paralyzed veteran reached out to me through a mutual friend, asking me if he was going to lose his benefit check. I have heard from retirees who are telling me that it is hard to make the choice about Cocona Meala home or going you know, going out to eat, because it's burning a hole in their pocketbook. That is a reality, and that transcends this other political dialogue that's going on.
I am running for Senate to fight for my people, Molly. My life has been defined by putting up my hand for Michigan in tough moments. I worked on the campaign at two thousand and eight. I was there when Obama was getting sworn in. I said, if I'm going to do one thing in this administration, I've got to do something for my people in Michigan. The Auto Rescue Steve Ratner needed achieve its staff. I'm pretty sure you know it was. It was, you know, kismet. We met in
the halls of transition. We set forward to make sure that the auto companies didn't liquidate, that two hundred thousand Michigan jobs were protected. We brought in organized labor. I ran for United States Congress to flip a seat based on all these values of being honest, being transparent, and yes, taking positions. What you talking about is leadership and I get that with these Senate seats. You said, oh, the Senate seats precious. So is Michigan. So is what Michigan needs.
I'm running to be my state's chief lawmaker to lower costs, to deliver and to stand up to this reckless administration in this mold.
So you have a large Muslim population in Michigan, lot of voters. It's the place where Uncommitted came from. What is your feeling about APAC About APEC has I think gotten very unpopular in the party, certainly for the base. What is your position on that Paris lost the state. They did not make any overtures towards the uncommitted movement. There were no Muslim speakers at the DNC. I mean, do you think that was the squandered opportunity. Where are you on this topic.
Now, I can absolutely tell you where I am. It's been heartbreaking. This war has gone on way too long. The pain and suffering that is very palpable here in Metro Detroit that we are seeing in Gaza is impacting us all. It's certainly something that I have stood up for, which is humanitarian aid. I have called on Israel and the United States to work together to get more aid and to alleviate some of the suffering that has gone on. It's heartbreaking, it takes your breath away. I've called for
this war to end. We do need to see him as surrender. We do need to see hostages come home. We do need a lasting ceasefire that brings peace to the people of Israel and Gaza. And so that is where I stand on that issue.
Schumer is the Minority leader and the senior senator from you. Welcome to Fast Politics, Senator Schumer.
Great to be with you once again, Molly.
So talk us through the shutdown. Democrats don't control any branches of the federal government. You are in a moment. You had the chance to do it before. Now you feel it's really the thing. Tell us why we are careening to a government shutdown, and how you can use this.
We're kreening to a government shutdown, as you said, because Donald Trump is an incompetent president who wants to be king, and he is not doing what the American people need. The bottom line is that all we want to do with Donald Trump. We've demanded that he sit down and talk to us because we need to fight for the healthcare needs of the American people.
And this is this deductible. So without this tax credit, Obamacare premiums will go up twenty percent, yeah.
More than that for many people. Many things will happen, but Obamacare premiums will go up and average a four four one hundred dollars a person per month, So that's five thousand dollars a year. How much can the average family afford five thousand dollars is a heck of a lot. Even if you're not on Obamacare, your premiums are going to.
Go up because of the deduction, because they'll lose a tax.
Deduction because people will lose the tax credit, and then the healthcare health insurance companies will charge everyone more. And also with some of the other things they've done, rural hospitals are going to close. Community health centers which provide such good health the poor people will close, and we will have lots of people just lose healthcare all together.
In New York State, for instance, over four hundred and fifty thousand people will lose healthcare because of the New York state laws, and another four million will lose health care on the ACA. So it's devastating, and frankly, Molly, the American people are on our side.
You set up a time to meet with Trump and Jeffries, he cancels it. The House is out of session, like there's no negotiating happening here.
Huh yeah, Well, let me tell you what happened. Let me give you a little background here. Starting in late July, Jeffries and I first wrote the two Republican leaders Boone and Johnson to sit down with us and talk about the budget. And we said we wanted to talk about healthcare. That's how it's always done. We said it to them several times, and what did we get back? Crickets zero. And then we learned why Donald Trump actually publicly stated
we don't need democrats, we should do this ourselves. The problem is he doesn't know math, you need sixty votes in the Senate to pass anything, and they have fifty three. So what we did is we wrote Donald Trump, Jeffries and I and we said, sit down with us, negotiate. That's how you get these things done. We have some real needs in healthcare and we want to fight as
hard as we can to get them done. And frankly, lots of your Republican senators want and congressmen want to get these things done because their constituents are losing the same things we talked about, four hundred dollars going up rural health. Rural hospitals are going to close under this bill. Most of them are in Republican districts. So we sent him sit down and talk with us. And then they called us back and said, okay, we'll do it. How
about Thursday at three pm? We said yes. Well, I said to Donald Trump, we'll come to the golf course Nico and sit down and try to get these things done. So they said yes, And then all of a sudden, yesterday yesterday was rant day for Donald Trump, not that he doesn't rant every day. He ranted the UN and alienated half the world, but he ranted about us. He said we are radical, and so you know what I
want to ask him, Molly right on your show. What is radical about trying to have people have adequate healthcare? What is radical about preventing their premiums going up from five thousand dollars a year? What is radical about keeping rural hospitals well may be the only hospitals in the
whole community. And he's allows the negotiator, or he's afraid to negotiate with us, and he backed off one of the there's some story one of today's papers is that thun and Johnson didn't want them to negotiate because he thought we'd out negotiate them. But we're going to keep pushing forward on this. We are but pushing.
So if you keep pushing forward, the calculus here is that the American people will that either you'll get this healthcare subsidy, which would actually help Republicans in the midterms.
Right, oh, well, help everybody, but it's good for people. We can't. This is so important. It's estimated by the way, if their whole big beautiful bill, which is a big, ugly betrayal, pass it, at least fifty one thousand people will die. This is not politics.
This is people right, but there are groups, there are Republican groups lobbying for them to do these Obamacare credits too, because they think they'll lose the.
House on it.
Oh, yes, we're right, right, So this is like a really actually pretty non partisan ask because Republicans could in fact use this their advantage. Fine, if it's the right thing to do, I understand the moral calculus. But the larger question is will Democrats be blamed for a shutdown which we can't possibly.
Now here's three reasons that we believe it's a Republican shutdown, and God forbid it happens, they will be blamed for it. Number one, it's obvious they're in charge. There's no divided government. They have the presidency, they have the Senate, they have the House. It's their responsibility to get this to work. You know, Molly, when I was majority leader and we had the majority for four years between twenty twenty and twenty twenty four, there were no shutdowns. Why were there
no shutdowns? We sat down with the Republicans and we came to an agreement and it worked. Trump does not want to sit down, as you saw, he's not sitting with us. And then Johnson goes along and says, we're not even going to come back till after the shutdown might start. So it's a Republican shutdown number one. They're in charge. Number two, And this really matters to the American people. They don't want to sit down and negotiate the average American. You don't have to be a big
liberal or whatever. You just say to yourself, WHOA why won't they sit down and negotiate this and listen to this when we are Our research shows that when people hear that Republicans won't we're going to sit down with us, who do they blame for a shutdown? Fifty nine percent blame Trump, thirty one percent blame Democrats. So that's number two.
But number three and maybe most important, as you correctly and as usual astutely pointed out, this is something that people from both parties want, and it's the ACA premiums, but rural hospitals. These Republican congressmen and senators are hearing from their rural hospitals that they could very well close. They're the only health care provider in that count People would have to drive hundreds of miles maybe to get health care. And they're the biggest employer in the county,
and people will lose their jobs. So you've got so many people and one other thing's happening. So some of Medicaid goes to help people pay for people who are nursing homes in assisted care living. A lot of the nursing homes will close. I was on Staten Island on a very nice nurse home. Staten Island's quite Republican, and he said, I may well have to close if these cuts go through. I have three hundred people who are
my patients. They're all going to lose their homes. They're going to lose their they will have to leave because we close. Where are they going to go. They're families who might be middle working class, middle class people on Staten Island. They don't have an extra room to put them in. They do can't give them the healthcare. So the third reason I believe that we are the American people are on our side and will blame the Republicans because they see what they are doing is this healthcare
is not partisan. It's needed by everybody. We all need health care.
So talk me through the Russ Vought question. Because there's a thinking that if there's a government shut down, Republicans, Democrats, whatever, it will mean that the president will have more power. Yeah, I mean he won't. It won't be legal, but again things being legal don't necessarily matter. But even legally, he has expanded presidential power in a shutdown. Russ Vought is the king of doing this kind of stuff where he underminds Congress for spending. How worried are you about that scenario?
Are there any checks and balances you can have there?
I am really worried about Russ vote in general because his project twenty twenty five is just what cut the government in half send America into recession. Creat I think it would create a great depression with all the job loss and money loss in everything else. But he's doing it anyway, even before there's a decision shutn He's doing these things called recisions. He takes the money back. He's
doing something call impoundment. Take one thing on healthcare that is so non political research, cancer research, you know, all this medical research, he's withholding them even though Congress appropriated in the last year's budget, he's holding it back. So Russ vote is a danger. We have to fight him in the courts. We have to fight him as best we can legislatively, and there is a proposal to put in the negotiations that he can't do this. It would
be illegal, particularly the pocket recisions. But he's going to go ahead, whether there's a shutdown or not and try to do this, and we're going to have to fight him either way.
RFK Junior really scary. Has basically gone back on everything he said to Senator Cassidy, like do you see any wiggle room there or people sort of or now.
Well, first, we need your listeners and the American people to call their Republican congressmen and senators and say, sit down, get us better health care, negotiate with the Democrats. But when you talk to the Republicans privately, a lot of them are very scared. Fifteen House members I think it's fifteen or twelve House members in Republican districts sent a letter to Johnson saying, we have to restore these ACA credits that you have talked about. We hear it from
other senators. Lisa Murkowski voted against you know, we all voted against their proposal because they wouldn't negotiate, but she voted with us as well. So yes, there are some fissures in the Republicans, but they have to show the guts that, you know, whats to say to Trump. I'm representing my people, not what you want. And Trump scares
a lot of them. But Trump is getting weaker and weaker and weaker because the American people know how bad this guy is, and we keep fighting him every day on all kinds of different issues, but healthcare above all, and so are the tariffs too. Have made him so much weaker because they're raising costs on everybody and everybody
knows it. So hopefully our Republican colleagues will realize that they are better off siding with their constituents than siding with Trump, who is losing support with the American people for good reason.
So do you think in the end you're going to get a meeting? Johnson sent the Congress home, So it seems like we're careening towards us. I mean, is there any kind of way to pull the emergency break?
Well, the bottom line is, you know, you'd have to ask our Republican friends. Of course, friends quote unquote, but you'd have to ask them because it's up to them. As I said, we're ready to sit down anywhere anytime to start talking. Go to the golf course. Trump is watches TV. I'm telling him, show off the TV and sit down and negotiate. You know, that's what a president should do. And he is not up to the job. He wants to be a king and do everything himself.
But we're fighting him every step of the way.
Thank you, Thank you, Senator Schumer.
Molly, you're great. Keep up letting people know the truth and look forward to coming on the next day, the next time. Thank you, no moment.
Jesse Cannon, so Molly.
Alex Jones a classic American figure. He interestingly started to turn a little sour on mister Trump after many many a thing that he does not like, government overreaches, pedophilia, cabals, and so. Funny enough, a top DOJ official met with him and then threatened Sandy Hook first responders with a criminal probe.
Yeah, it's so, so, so bad. And again the Sandy Hook stuff, like, first of all, there's only like Alex Jones, torture these people, okay, period paragraph and now Ed Martin, the head of the DOJ's vague weaponization task Force, which we should just basically.
Call favors for friends of the administration.
Right threaten to open a criminal investigation into a now retired FBI special agent who sued the Firewright conspiracy theorist. So basically like this is revenge. People who Alex Jones doesn't like get targeted by this government because that's how they do it. And it's wrong. It's bad, it's unbelievably crazy, and it's not only as its supposed to work. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics
make sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.