Is Rupert Lowe headed to the Conservative Party?

A very, very good evening to you and welcome to GB News Tonight with me, Martin Daubnery, your host. So, London Mayor Siddi Khan backs partial cannabis decriminalisation to stating that the policing of the drug actually causes greater harm to society. But what role does the drug play in violent crime in the UK? Tonight I'll be joined by a psychiatrist who says that the link between cannabis and violence...

violence is clear. And could former Reform MP Rupert Lowe be plotting to bring down the Conservative Party leader, Kami Bezenog? with Robert Jenrick, who is rumoured to be her replacement. We'll be hearing straight from the horse's mouth. You'll not want to miss it. I'll be joined by Rupert Lowe on tonight's show. Plus... ...by standard attire, a suit, a collar and tie.

That would be inappropriate attire for those people, and they would find it extremely offensive. A truly absurd story. A Labour councillor ties himself in knots, claiming that a shirt and tie dress code... are offensive to ethnic and religious groups. That's right. Shirts and ties are now racist. And I'll be joined by the reformed councillor who called him out. That's all coming on tonight's show.

And welcome to GB News Tonight. With me, your host, Martin Daubry. Tonight's top story, the London mayor, Sadiq Khan, he's backed calls for the partial decriminalisation of cannabis possession after a study suggested... The policing of the drug caused a greater harm to society than its actual usage. Cannabis remains the largest part of the illegal drug market in the United Kingdom, which drives much of the violence in London.

Between June 2023 and June 2024, over 16,000 and nearly 38,000 drug convictions were cannabis-related, with nearly 2,500 resulting in immediate custody. Now, the case of the triple killer Valdo Calacane, a diagnosed schizophrenic and triple killer, has renewed concerns over cannabis and mental health. And a King's College professor has warned. But long-term heavy use may raise the risk of psychosis sixfold.

Critics fearing decriminalisation will harm public safety. Supporters argue it's a necessary step to reduce harm and to address racial disparities.

I'm delighted to say I'm now joined in the studio by Dr. Edward Chesney, who specialise in the study of cannabis induced psychosis at King's College London. Welcome to the show, Dr. Chesney. So you have conducted an in-depth study into psychosis, the use of cannabis, and in particular, fascinating, the effect of strong marijuana on young...

In your opinion, is it a wise idea to decriminalise something that could carry so much potential risk? I think the questions about decriminalisation are very complex. But one of the main risks is it might increase teenage use, and that's the thing I'm most concerned about, the links between teenage cannabis use, particularly heavy cannabis use, and developing schizophrenia or another psychosis.

in the 20s are quite clear, and we think the relationship is probably causal. So I am quite concerned about that. So a causal factor between teenagers, particularly taking... Cannabis and today's cannabis, by the way, is nothing like the spliff that people might have enjoyed back, you know, liberal labor supporters back in the 90s. Today's drugs are incredibly strong, incredibly powerful. And the data here.

a study from the University of Toronto, 11 times more risk of developing a psychotic disorder among teenagers who use cannabis compared with those who did not. Yeah, and that Canadian study is very concerning. The 11 times risk is very high and it's one of the highest estimates we've seen. I think you have to consider the other factors involved in these studies. That is the direct relationship between cannabis use.

and developing psychosis or schizophrenia but there are other factors people who are more likely to use cannabis are also more likely to have other risk factors for developing schizophrenia whether that's poverty childhood stress or the genetics of schizophrenia too. So I think those estimates are probably overestimates and the risks aren't quite so high. But in terms of those who present, because you also work in A&E. Yeah.

You treat people who come into hospitals often in a very distressed situation, those with psychotic incidents and psychotic conditions. How many of them would you estimate are cannabis users? It's difficult to know, but I think about a third of people, when they develop a psychotic illness, have a problem of cannabis use at the onset of the illness. And we always tell them that you need to reduce and hopefully stop your drug use.

And we do see some people reduce. So in established illnesses, it reduces from about a third down to about one in five, 20%. So we do make some progress, but a lot of people do continue to use cannabis over time. And we see that those people are more likely to... have to relapse to end up in hospital to need more medications the outcomes are generally worse is in your mind there any causation is there evidence to show that ordinary people who started

a cannabis habit, developed psychosis? Did they have it before? Does it exacerbate an underlying condition? Tell me about some of the detail there. I think cannabis is always one of many factors. Many, many people in the UK smoke cannabis every day and are completely fine. It's just a minority who do deal on develop illnesses like schizophrenia and psychotic illnesses. So you have to have maybe some sort of genetic propensity or other.

environmental factors which together make you develop the illness. When you look at a city such as London, let's face it, it has a large amount of social deprivation, a large amount of cultural... influence you walk around the streets of london you know where you live where i live we live very close to each other you can smell puff everywhere you go you can i saw someone the way in the way into the studio yeah i mean literally outside parliament yeah

Maybe people are defiantly having a spliff to put two fingers up to the government. The fact remains, Dr Chesney, it is everywhere. It is everywhere. And so there is an argument.

to say that decriminalising small amounts frees up police time. And I believe there is evidence in other countries that does help the police to tackle tougher crime.

Yeah, that's a good point. And I think that's the argument that Sadiq Khan's making, that while I'm sure he accepts that there are risks of particularly teenage cannabis use, the benefits of criminalisation of use may be worse than the... than the harms um so i think you know it may free up more police to have more time to focus on other crimes more violent crimes for example um and there's also

A lot of people in disadvantaged groups in London, particularly black people who complain, they feel that they're targeted by the police and that stop and search and possession of small amounts of cannabis are used to target them unfairly. What about the long-held... there's a gateway factor. So, for example, you start off having a split or two and you find yourself getting onto harder drugs, specifically in terms of the patients you encounter who have...

violent psychosis. What's their relationship between cannabis and other drugs? I'm not sure about those arguments. That's been a topic which people have debated and have been studied into for many years, and it's very hard to tell if cannabis is a gateway drug. I think generally most scientists don't think that that is the case.

When we look at places such as Portugal, they're held up as bastions of liberalisation, decriminalise everything, medicalise rather than criminalise. But there are also incidents such as in America, in San Francisco, in California, in Portland, where we've seen parts of those countries turn into hell holes.

where addicts become cripplingly addicted, social problems go through the roof, and, of course, the drug dealers swarm in to prey on the vulnerable. Are you concerned at all that a baby step, if you like, towards a partial?

decriminalisation could lead towards more pressure to go much more open, and that could have a profound effect on the fabric of society. Yeah, I think that's a good point. I think in states like Oregon, where it's completely decriminalised and legalised, what's happened there hasn't.

hasn't been good at all. They, I think, said they used a Portuguese model, but I think they were a lot more liberal than what the Portuguese were. And if you look at the Portuguese system, I think a lot of people argue that they've actually had relatively good outcomes from that. What about Sadiq Khan mentioned, because he visited California, and one thing that caught his eye was the fact that it's taxed and it can become a huge source of revenue. Millions and millions of dollars can be made.

from legalised drugs, which could be spent on helping patients, but it could just also be another form of tax. We live in a London potentially where it's illegal for your exhaust to smoke. through ULES, but it'd be legal for you to smoke marijuana. Could this be, I don't know, compassionate politics actually dressing up the fact it's just another tax vehicle?

That's an interesting point. I think if we were to legalise cannabis, I think the tax revenues, I'd be very happy with them. That would definitely be a benefit. But I don't think that should be one of the main reasons that we go to that kind of model. Specifically about the patients you've seen.

and looking at the policies on the table. You work at the sharp end. You meet some very, very distressed people, psychotic patients.

as i said you know i've become close to the valdo calicane family they're very the victims of them barnaby webber's mother and great o'mally kumar's parents they were desperately, desperately upset by the fact that there was no toxicology tests carried out on Valvado Callaghan, despite that they claim an abundance of proof that he'd been taking strong marijuana before the incident.

We have another problem there, don't we? People who care in the community, who are meant to be taking anti-psychotic, anti-schizophrenic drugs, they're not taking them, they're not being monitored, and they can self-medicate. Are you concerned that with patients like that, patients almost like...

on the edge, that the free availability of cannabis could be a trigger factor that might tip them over the edge? I think the first point I make about that is that the vast majority of people with psychotic illnesses with schizophrenia aren't violent. There are a very small minority, a few thousand people who end up in forensic hospitals, but there are hundreds of thousands of people in the UK with schizophrenia who've never committed a violent act in their life.

But of course, there are these extreme cases like the Valdez-Calcane case. In his case, I've only read the official report. It doesn't mention drug use or cannabis at all. Perhaps that did occur. I don't know. But the report is quite clear. And it points the blame at mental health services there. He's a man who had, I think, four relapses in just two years. And all four of those were associated with violent behaviour and the police were involved too.

And then because he wasn't engaging in treatment, he was discharged to his GP. And that's when the tragic events and the murders happened. So I think, at least from the official reports, it looks like mental health services were to blame there. I don't think that means we should...

point the finger and identify individuals, we need to look at more systemic issues and mental health services have been working in the NHS services for 10 years. We are struggling. We haven't got enough money to cope at the moment.

But the big question is, the final question to you tonight, Dr Edward Chesney, with all your experience of treating psychosis, with all your observational data, all the studies about the link between marijuana use and psychosis, do you think... that the more liberal approach could increase your caseload, could increase problems? I think it could, but it also may not. I think we need to wait and see what happens.

see if Khan's policy does get put into practice and we need to look at the potential benefits of it and the potential harms and consider in five or ten years if it's been worthwhile. Excellent stuff. Thank you for your expertise. Fascinating stuff, Dr Edward Chesney. Thank you for joining me on the show tonight. Now, moving on, coming up next, could former Reform MP Rupert Lowe be plotting to bring down Conservative Party leader...

Kemi Badenoch with Robert Jenrick, who is rumoured to be her replacement. Well, the two had an illicit tryst. We'll be hearing straight from the horse's mouth next. You will not want to miss it. Rupert Lowe on the show next. Welcome back to GB News Tonight with me, your host, Martin Dorgan. Before the break, we're discussing Sadiq Khan's plan to potentially decriminalise, partially legalise the use of cannabis.

In Britain and in London, Ian says this. I know the dangers of cannabis and have witnessed some of them at first hand. What seems to be missing from the present conversation is the medicinal uses of cannabis for conditions like multiple sclerosis.

It is very difficult for patients to get legally prescribed cannabis in this country. And for some, nothing else will work. And of course, that forces them into the hands of the drug dealers. And Peter adds this quite simply to the point. If Sadiq Khan wants it. It must be a bad idea. Now, welcome back to the show. Now, could the former Reform MP Rupert Lowe be planning on joining the Conservative Party?

Well, the former Reform MP is said to be open to join the Tories following a private meeting with senior Conservative Robert Jenrick last week. And the two met at a Mayfair club to discuss Lowe's potential political future. Now, to do so, would mark a sharp turn from Mr Lowe's recent talk of launching his own political party? And the talks come just days before fresh tensions erupted around party leader Kemi Badenoch. Reports of...

plots to unseat her already swirling. So would Mr Rupert Lowe join the Conservatives and would that be a help or a hindrance? Well, let's talk to the man himself. And now joined by Rupert Lowe, the MP for great Yarmouth. Rupert. A pleasure to have your company. Been way too long. Rupert Lowe, we love a plot in politics. We love a tryst and illicit meeting. You met with Robert Jemmerich. What was on the menu?

Martin, it's a pleasure to be back with my old ex-MEP colleague from the West Midlands. It's been some time since I was... There was an attempted political assassination attempt against me, which could have landed me in prison with no basis to it. But anyway, here I am. I'm in rude health. I'm actually enjoying a bit of a parliamentary recess, getting a dose of reality down in the country and keeping my feet firmly on the ground and out of the what I call loony bin of Parliament.

But look, I mean, I had lunch with Robert Jenrick probably three months ago at my club, and I simply had lunch with him at his club. I've always said, since my... political assassination which was very clumsy and arguably somewhat unchristian um i i have all options open and um i have to confess i was not expecting to be politically taken out like um

You know, like a sort of wing forward takes out the scrum half if he can. But I'm now free. I've got lots of options open to me. I'm not plotting to do any...

badness to anybody else. What I'm intent on doing and I think I've made this clear is changing the way Britain's governed by 2029 and I've now got to turn my mind to finding a way to do that.

I personally, having witnessed, having come from the real world and having now witnessed the way Parliament operates, the way the civil service operates, the way the front bench operates, The way the Labour government is basically surrendering vast tracts of British sovereign territory with absolutely, you know, almost with a smile on their faces, they speak with forked tongue.

So I think collectively, the British people who care about the country have to now find a solution to changing the way we're governed by 2029. And that's what I'm turning my mind to. Talking to the Tories, I talked to all the Tories a lot. You know, they knew that the attempt to politically assassinate me was a farce.

OK, Ruben, can we stop dwelling on that, please? You've made that point now about five times. But rather than being cold-shouldered, Martin, I've been talking to them. There's some great young tourists. Good. Let's talk about what that might look like. You've been quite critical of the Conservatives in the past, although you are naturally a Conservative by heritage. What is it? Is there anything particular about Robert Jenrick that's caught your eye as a kind of man?

you might like to work with? Well, I think there are some very able Tories. A lot of them are young. I mean, I've got huge amounts of admiration for... jack rankin for katie lamb some of the young tories but there is this overhang of camera night uh what i call lib dems so i as i said to robert and i i think robert is

he's a bit like a sort of catholic convert he's almost more catholic than the catholics now because he is you know voted to remain and he did all sorts of things that i wouldn't approve of but i i think we we've got to find somehow a collective solution and what that means what I've been trying to do is effectively unite right-wing thought through policy. And that was my issue. We need policy, Martin. We have to have a plan. We have to have, if you like, a detailed...

roadmap to changing the way we're governed. And that's not going to happen by just what I call shallow rhetoric. That's got to happen by plan. So I'm now exploring all options. All options are open, Martin. That's the message. And Rupert, there was some polling out today that we carried on GB News, showing that Kemi Badenok in the Red Wall is less popular than Jeremy Corbyn.

I think only 7% of the electorate in the Red Wall said that they thought Kemi Beidnok could be the most effective prime minister in the land, way below Boris Johnson, way below Sakhir Starmer. Is the direction of travel with the Conservative Party, you think, is it more suited to having a leader such as Robert Jenrick? And might you like to see that? Might you like to help Robert Jenrick to become the leader of the Conservative Party?

Look, I said all options are open, Martin. I think even I appeared in that poll quite incredibly. I don't think I appeared on the list, so I must have been an unprompted appearer. I think I ended up with 6% in that poll, which is quite extraordinary. But anyway, look, I'm not really interested in anything other than changing the way we're governed. And I've got to find that solution. And I've got to somehow then explain.

what needs to be done to the british people and give them an opportunity if they agree to vote for it now i was hoping to do that within reform but that hasn't been possible so now i have to turn my mind to do it a different way and that's what i'm doing but i'm not in any I think, you know, as better men than myself say, time spent in reconnaissance is seldom wasted. And I think that certainly applies now because whatever happens now.

It's very important that we get it right. And Rupert Lowe finally...

The Conservative Party have been very critical of, certainly, in terms of its open borders situation, a failure to take back control of our borders, letting one million people in under Boris Johnson's watch. You've been very, very critical about that. Why would you even consider joining a party like that? You've had nothing but bad words to say about them on that particular topic of open borders.

Look, Martin, they've failed as badly. I'm on public record as saying that with an 80-seat majority, which people like you and I helped gift them, they singularly failed to deliver what they should have delivered. But that's because... their MPs were selected on quotas, not on merit. Now, that's sadly water under the bridge, because with an 80-seat majority, what you and I could do, Martin, would be quite substantial, and it needed to start on day one after the election, which it didn't.

And yeah, I blame Boris for that. I blame a lot of the front bench for that. And I think that's why it's very difficult for the Tories to actually impugn. Keir Starmer because a lot of the things they accused him of, they're also, they were guilty of. So, you know, legal migration was huge. Illegal migration was far too high.

The number of people living here illegally was far too high. So there are lots of systemic failures. And I blame the unit party for that. What I have said, though, and I maintain this, is that a reformed Tory party with its history. is arguably the most effective vehicle through which to change the way we're governed. Now, if that isn't possible, we have to find a force from outside the unit party.

which acts as an agent either directly or indirectly to unite those people who want their country back. And let me tell you, Martin, there are more and more people who now want their country back. They can see where it's all gone wrong. I've always said the British people are very phlegmatic, Martin, but they're turning. Look at the polls. They're turning. They are. Rupert, can I just push you if...

The Conservative Party, as you say, has a chance of uniting, of coalescing around a more conservative core. Do you think they need a new leader? Is Kemi Badenoch ill-equipped to lead that reformed Conservative Party? Well, I'm not in a position to judge whether Kemi Badenoch is right or wrong for the Tory party. What I, as I said, have got to do, Martin, is find a solution to the problem. And it's up to them who they choose as their leader.

I'm not part of the Tory party. As I said to you, I talk to a lot of them. I think I have changed quite a lot of the philosophy in Parliament, whether it comes to the Pakistani rape gangs, whether it comes to mass deportation, which I think we have to do with illegals. And, you know, those living here, those arriving criminals in our prisons, I've advocated mass deportation and a lack of any form of acceptance of that.

Could I just push you on that point? Do you think some of those opinions might be too spicy for the Conservative Party? Might they not have you? on that basis? I think the Overton window is moving, Martin. So I think it's moving across Parliament. And I think the Overton window, as you know, is moved. by what the british people want because if you don't give the british people what what they want you don't get elected and i i i push those boundaries because i think we voted

in 2016 for our own sovereign borders, and clearly we haven't got them. And that's because the British establishment has got this sort of weird view that we can't... deport people who arrive here illegally. We can now. We left the European Union and it's now up to us as a sovereign nation to exercise. and deliver what is in the best interests of the honest, decent taxpaying electorate.

OK, Rupert Lowe, we have to leave you there. The MP for Great Yarmouth, a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you very much for joining us on GB News tonight. Rupert Lowe. Pleasure, Martin. Cheers, mate. Now for the break, I'll be speaking with a human rights lawyer who changed his mind entirely on trans rights and was totally ostracised for doing so by the so-called Be Nice Brigade. Stay with us.

Welcome back to GB News Tonight with me, Martin Daubley. Now, this evening at 9pm, it's the one and only. It's the Patrick Christie Tonight Show and the star of that show joins me now. Patrick, you're a one-off. What's on your show? Thank you very much, Martin. Yes, indeed. Well, we've got loads... Hold on, so I'm having a look at Sadiq Khan's desire to

essentially turned London into a dope-smoking haven. I am asking whether or not this is actually the right thing to do, or really, is there some underlying reason why he might want to do it? So I've got a couple of theories. lobbing those out there at 9pm. A couple of other things on as well. I've got a back catalogue of all of the times that we've had foreign or asylum seeker offenders where police forces have not released their ethnicity.

and nationality, or banned us from reporting on it until a court case, comparing and contrasting, of course, what's going on in Liverpool. And is 72 years old... too old to have a baby? Is it actually child abuse if you're that old and you bring a child into the world? All of that and, of course, much more, Martin. I'll see you at nine.

Well, I'm not quite 72 yet, Patrick, but I'll tell you what, the thing I love about your show, seriously, you've got all day to plan this meticulously, go through the evidence, go through the data, load the chamber, boof. Excellent show. Patrick Bridges tonight, 9 till 11. See you later, mate.

Now, moving on, a leading human rights lawyer and King's College professor says that he no longer supports key demands of the transgender rights movement. Robert Wintermute, once a strong trans rights advocate... now argues that the demands of the trans rights movement conflict with women's rights. Now, the backlash to him has been fierce.

with former allies cutting ties and students violently protesting against his talks. I'm delighted to say I'm now joined by that man in the studio here in Westminster, and that is Robert Wintermuth. Robert, a pleasure to have your company. Pardon the pun, but you've transitioned yourself. Your opinion has completely changed from being a trans advocate to, if you like, seeing the light. Tell me about your journey.

Well, I could say it actually started at McGill University in Montreal where I studied law. There's an inscription above one of the entrances, a Latin maxim. which is audi altrum partum, hear the other side, listen to the other side. So basically, I only heard from one side for many years. I heard the transgender side. Everything that was proposed sounded reasonable to me. I'm a man, I wasn't thinking about how this might affect women-only spaces.

I just went along with it for many years. And so the first time I had a bit of doubt was in 2015. I heard about Ireland's new law on self-identification. And I asked myself, what does this mean for sports? Does this mean... Usain Bolt, when he slows down, he can move to the women's 100 meters. But then I put that aside. And in 2018, I was in a summer school where there was a transgender student who made it clear.

that he did not understand or did not seem to understand that women have human rights too. And that's what I call my light bulb moment. Because, of course, it then became a case that it wasn't about equality. It was about special treatment. I think we've got a quick clip of one of those violent protests that you underwent. Let's put that on now. Can I go in please?

34 years at King's College. Robert, just seeing that clip there, a great many people say, you're obviously a good bloke. You're a human rights lawyer. You care deeply. You've got... You've got compassion. You've got humanity. Suddenly you're being othered. You're being treated like a Nazi, like a fascist. It must have been incredibly distressing for you. Well, the...

The problem was summed up by the slogan that the students were chanting outside the seminar room, which was, F your system, F your hate, trans rights aren't up for debate. Well, everything should be up for debate. Everything is up for debate, actually. When I started thinking about it, I thought, well, maybe some things are absolute, like the right to be free from torture and inhuman-integrating treatment. And then I thought, well, wait a minute. You have to define those concepts.

and there was a european court of human rights case about whether a police officer slapping a teenager once on the face was prohibited treatment so everything has to be debated because the rights have limits and you have to decide where the limits are

We've seen the Supreme Court in the United Kingdom decide, no, a woman is a woman. Biological, immutable characteristics. Science agrees. The law agrees. Clearly, a lot of young people... don't agree what's going on we hear a lot about the fact all young people are being brainwashed are they so imbibed in this they have become the precise thing they accuse others of they're bigoted they're intolerant they are totally

unopened to any form of critical analysis of their ideology yes i think it's a fairly recent phenomenon um partly for this younger generation transgender rights um is the cause of their time so um we got same-sex marriage in 2013 in the well england and wales 2015 across the usa There was a kind of vacuum there, and transgender rights has filled it. But people just haven't thought about the limits. If you say trans rights are human rights, they tend to think, well, that's...

Absolutely. Everything they propose must be accepted. Always, do you think, going through a moment, you've had your awakening. The legal system is having its awakening. I think the general public can see it's just... patently and provably unfair to see a biological man beating up a woman in a sports event. There's legitimised, it's televised, it's Olympics. Have we reached a point where you think...

there's going to be an awakening and more people will make your journey and the light bulb will go off and the trans movement will be put back in its box. I think what's happening is, well... the legal system has been clarified, or the law has been clarified based on biology and what makes the Acts of Parliament work together.

But what we're also seeing is politicians, I'd say, catching up with the public. So there's been a promotion of the idea for about 10 years now that trans women are women and birth sex is irrelevant. If someone identifies as a woman, that's enough. And most people don't accept that, particularly in a situation like sports that you mentioned. And now the leaders of the Labour and Conservative parties agree about this.

Well, at least they do superficially. They still seem to come to a consensus on that. Look, it's been fascinating speaking to you. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. on the show. That is Robert Wintermute. Brilliant stuff. Now, thank you, Robert. And coming up next, the Labour councillor ties himself in knots, claiming that shirt and tie dress codes are racist.

By standard attire, a suit, a collar and tie. That would be inappropriate attire for those people and they would find it extremely offensive. You are displaying the reason the public are hating Labour right now. I suggest you grow up. and stop making everything so divisive. That's The Absurd and I'll be joined by the reform councillor who called him out and that's next.

Welcome back to GB News Tonight with me, your host, Martin Daubner. Now, a Labour Party councillor has sparked controversy by urging North Lincolnshire Council to revise its dress code for public meetings, arguing. that requiring a shirt and tie could be offensive to certain ethnic and religious groups. What do we mean by correct attire? Because we have got to recognise that in this area, we have now got...

more ethnicity, more religious groupings that are not what we would call the white ethnic groupings. If we mean by standard attire. a suit a collar and tie that would be inappropriate attire for those people and they would find it extremely offensive It's not April the 1st. I'm very pleased now to be joined by the very Reform Council himself.

Oliver Freeston, Reform UK Council for North East Lincolnshire. Oliver, welcome to the show. Some people might be listening to that and just think this is a clown world. This isn't happening. It did happen. There was a man, I'm assuming a white man, whitesplaining that shirts, collars and ties are racist. What on earth is going on?

Honestly, it makes you want to rip your hair out. Now, imagine having the misfortune of having to sit through a council meeting and listen to this absolute nonsense. Although I suppose it's true, if they're going to govern like clowns, then why wouldn't they dress like them? It's embarrassing.

man being offended on behalf of different ethnicities but when you actually speak to them and you say is there any reason you couldn't wear a shirt and tie they go absolutely not so actually i would say that it's quite offensive to say that certain ethnicities can't wear a shirt and tie absolute nonsense

Of course it is. I mean, it's a standard dress code. It's a code of conduct. It's a code of decorum. It's a code to show that you're ready for work and businesslike. And we happen to be in the United Kingdom. What's his plan be? You dress in a sari? You tell me. I don't know what they're going to turn up in next. Well, I can tell you, if I was the chair of the meeting, because it's at the chair's discretion, if anybody turned up without good reason...

I would tell them to leave the meeting and the story because we've been elected by our constituents. If you can't be bothered to put a shirt and tie on and show the respect to the people who put you there, then don't bother coming. Now, of course, there are exceptions. There's people who an emergency has come up or they've got.

Back from work later than they expected. Fair enough, we'll make exceptions as one-off. But to make it a blanket rule of dressing however you like, absolutely ridiculous and shameful. Yeah, I mean, you could be like Justin Trudeau. You could wear a pair of green Adidas trainers to meet the king. I mean, there is a certain contagion to this lack of dress code, but on a serious point. You know, nobody is saying that it should be mandatory.

to wear, you know, to strip out your cultural origins, to comply. It isn't that. This isn't this idea of like a French style, no wearing of any religious attire. This is a straightforward him taking offence on behalf of somebody else who, I mean, has anybody ever complained about this in the past in this council?

And that's the exact thing that was discussed on the night. Nobody had ever made a problem over it. But the sad thing is I was the lone voice in the chamber to say this is absolute rubbish. So afterwards they said, OK, we'll take a vote on whether to send this back to a working group to review.

the wording to see if it is offensive and whether it's fit for purpose. I said, well, let's make it a recorded vote. I was the sole councillor out of all of them that said, nonsense, let's plough ahead. The Tories joined forces with them and that's why they're currently unelectable. both parties.

And what is that about? Is it just a total fear, a total lack of a backbone? They just want to keep their heads down. But see, the problem with that is that as soon as you just keep silent, this becomes the new norm. before anybody could turn up in anything they want to work. And that is not the way we conduct business in this country.

Exactly that. People are scared of being offensive. And that's why I love being part of reform. I make no qualms about it. I used to be a conservative. I joined reform when we were polling 8-9% in the party because I believed in the party's principles and the convictions. join but we've certainly got to stand up and we've got to fight back this nonsense the fact that reform are polling so well now shows that actually we've got the majority or a good uh

sway the country behind us. What I would say though is I don't think the majority of the public are actually aware of the conduct of their elected members. Most people don't know who the local councillor is and so they don't know what's being said. Although I suspect if people, if the electorate were aware...

of the comments that were made by this certain councillor, he would be getting booted out of office and it wouldn't be too soon. And the interesting thing is he's actually a ward colleague of mine. He's another councillor. I can tell you next year I'm up for election. We're going to really work hard and we're going to be delivering the message. that reform is the serious party.

Well, I'll tell you what, I think one of the things we're going to see now about so many reformed councillors out there, so many reformed councils being taken over by reform, more and more of these kind of stories coming out. And I think maybe that's what the general public needs, just to sort of have the...

sunlight, the bleach of sunlight to show us what's going on. That's what I did when the European Union just exposed their cocktail parties, their foreign jaunts, the wastage, the £5,000 leather armchairs. That's your job. Thanks for joining us, Oliver. Freeson thanks for joining us on the show