March 6th Hour 1: Relief pitching break down, and more...

You're listening to the Fantasy Sports Radio Network Fantasy Best Friends Forever m Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Yeah. This as the Fantasy Best Friends Forever here on the Fantasy Sports Radio Network alongside Frankie stamfele I am Greg so spend Ducks are abound as we go and play a little closer Roulette today on the program What's going on Frankie Reggae. What's up man? Happy hump Day, Wednesday, March six. I noticed you had you had some new

moves today. You're really really into like the shoulders like yeah, to to like, I don't know what you do doing? That wasn't a thing. What's up man? Not much, man, not much. I'm telling your story off the area either off did that story? I cannot say? On there, I know you cannot. I'll be listening. I'll be here all day, same, we'll talk. I hope. So, man, I hope. So sleep, How did I see? I slept pretty well? How did you sleep? Oh? Well? Man? Well wow, reversing roles. Here's weird.

All right, it's weird. You know for me, I'm used to be waking up in the middle of the night and like, that's okay. My last night I woke up, it was one fifty. Like one fifty. That's that's an early middle of night wake up. Like I mean, you're like fifty years old. I mean it's hard to stay start to stay awake nowadays, but like one fifty, Like what am I up for right now? And then it's just like my mind's my mind has really been racing a lot. I think I had a dream of one

I got fired. That's more of a nightmare than a dream. It was bad. I got your back, and I'm just like, what what is happening? And then I'm just like I just think there's so much wedding stuff going on the ring way through my head. We have it knows me a very big day at work. We have a lot going on today, We have a lot going on. Um, next week's a crazy week. It's just a lot going on up here. Man. I know you had to you had to travel to Jersey to do some wedding stuff yesterday,

right I did. It? Sounds like a disaster. It was like, honest, it was fine. It was fine. Like there was a lot of questions and all honestly, like Judy and her mom were answered a bunch of questions. Her dad was playing on her phone. I was playing on an iPad that like they had and why did you need to be there? Because I want to make sure my opinions hurt? Was it hurt? Did they need you at all? Sounds like they didn't really need you, know, so they needed

me for certain things. Um, like for instance, a lot of times at weddings, like when you leave, like they get out stuff, okay, like a party favor, either party favor, Like when like last food thing. It's like I'd left a bunch of weddings. They have like pretzels that they served, so whatever whatever. So we had said previously like we wanted to give out donuts and then We're just like, I don't really want to do the donuts anymore. But

we wrote that into the contract. Actually wanted me to negotiate like how to get the donuts out of the contract. So that was that was my That was like my purpose there a fair enough, I guess being honest with you, Okay, So um, that was my role to being that was Jersey. How's the shore looking? Uh? And it wasn't on the shore. I was very close to here. I just assumed that it every time you go to the Jersey go back, you go back home. You know. It was in Jersey City.

Those Jersey City. I don't think I've ever been there. That's great, like Jersey City. All right, So it was fine. So everything it's just everything else. I'll tell you off the air. Um, but it got wild, It got wild. He says, yeah, all right, I'm I'm looking forward to Uh do I have you intrigued enough to hearing that from you? Do? I have you intrigued enough? Do you have my attention? It's all I could ask for see

what happens. I know we wrote like the relief picture breakdown for today's show, but you know, we were having a great soccer conversation downstairs. Should just bring those guys up here and like and Steve and kick you out. We'll just keep the soccer talk. Probably not all right. I thought I would just throw it out there. You never know. It was very spirited discussion. Surprised you didn't chime in and soccer talk for you, you know, I just don't know enough. You guys are like obviously going

at it. And I was like, that's great, the into the World Cup when when it was on. Yeah, I like the World Cup when it's on unforet Unfortunately, like every other soccer fan in that record, every other soccer fan, but like a lot of mainstream soccer fans in the Guard, you know, American soccer. Sorry, I mean I've kind of fallen off really yeah. I mean I'll watch it if it's on. But I used to go a lot harder actually when it came to soccer. Not so much anymore.

You are actually gonna be so into baseball and football speak a baseball. Frank's super into baseball that he has set up his own Patreon this year. So if you're watching where you're listening, you haven't signed up for his Patreon to do it right now it's however much you want to pay a dollar. You don't very much for that, so I don't do that. Five dollars, that's okay. But the ten dollar tier, that's where you want to be. Ten bucks. You get his rankings, they update constantly. You

want that. That tier is where you want to be. The twenty five dollar tier, he's basically your slave at that point. It's twenty five dollars a month all you can get. Like to think of it as a sidekick, greg slave, like your faith. Refrain from the words late, we'll go. We'll go with fantasy. I think about however you want it, man, But if they pay you twenty five dollars, you are what they say they are, you are,

You're not wrong the dollars. And we have some people at that level already where Frank has to run everything. Shout out to Mitch from Atlanti signed up yesterday, Cities. An avid watcher. He watch this every day. No, no, ten dollars, perfect ten dollars. He had a keeper league question for me. I chattered up with him a little bit, so Mitch crushing it. Constant, constant, he is a fantasy sidekick. Okay, Constantine. Maybe he just needs to help. That's what it is.

Maybe Constant needs help. I mean he does pretty well. Oh all right, fair enough, let's get into the relievers. Frank, where do we have to Maybe I'm wrong by this, but now that my rankings are completely you can vettom move me for one cent less than Chris Vnter's asking for. And if find out Chris is asking Priss later on, we can't have a closure show without. Frank came about that line in a half hour ago. I was like,

you're definitely using it right. This stuff rights itself. Um when I look at the closers this year, and maybe it's just wrong and maybe I'm just in the in the mindset playing too much today, but like it feels like this is like the worst crop we've ever seen in our lives. It's horrible. It definitely is. There's no doubt about Yeah, this is This season has been the hardest thus far to rank and breakdown. We will try

our best. I know a lot of people have asked us about holds as well, so we can dive into that a little bit. I do think, you know, for categories and roto leagues. I think that's why where we might be trending saves plus holds because I think at that point, Greg and let me know how you think. What you think about this is when you get saves plus holds as a category, now you're now drafting talent. This is what we should be doing. You're not drafting

the Shane Greens of the world. Shane Green is gonna give you a five plus e r A, but hey, he might give you twenty five plus saves. Because saves are so hard to come by. Shane Green is still being drafted as a top twenty five thirty reliever, which based on his ratios as the r A and who he's terrible, he shouldn't be drafted because he gives you twenty five saves. You have to draft him in rhodo

and and categories. Leagues had to categories leads. I think that we should start proposing that saves plus holds is better because at that point we're just drafting the most talented relievers, regardless of whether they're getting you safe. I mean, sure, like Edwin Daz, your elite closers, they're still gonna go very highly. But now you know, in situations like Philly where we don't necessarily know who the closer is, and I don't think we're ever going to know who the

closer is. You could just draft talent there with David Robertson and Sir Anthony Dominguez, because you know, all right, on a nightly basis, one guy might get me the save, the other might get me the hold, but you know that both guys are still gonna be really good and give you good e r A and good whip and give you a lot of strikeouts. I think that is a direction we have to start to look towards more. And obviously we can talk a little bit more about

holds today. I don't think we have a choice because there's so many bullpens now they're a bullpen by committee. Holds just kind of like work themselves into the relief picture conversation. Yeah, so I know, my lea, my Home League voted this year on like saves plus holds or something like that or adding holds, and it got it was not voted in. But I have a feeling that like we're gonna have to do something in the future too, Like maybe it's not this year, but starting next year,

you know, correct, I think it's gonna build. Realize you're maybe you're you're won't realize this until after the draft happens, when we're like, oh, crap, relief pitching is bad. You can't find Closerstimately, I would say there's fifteen sixteen set closers in baseball right now, look at my last hang on, I have it right in front of me. Maybe if that one to three, four or five six, that's six. One of those includes Craig Kimbrow, which it shouldn't. He's

not on a team. So that's five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. You can't rust lasses, yes, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, And there are guys that we want to be closers, but we don't know if they are for sure. So I, oh, there's Shane Green's fifteen, so you're about right. You're about right about fifteen. And there's thirty teams in baseball. Half the teams have a set closer. And look, I'm selfishly for fantasy purposes, obviously we want more closers. I can't

really debate what real life baseball managers are doing. If it's more effective, then sure, go for it. Like look at what the Brewers did last year. They didn't have a set closer. But they were all over the place with Josh Hayter and Jeremy Jefferson and Corey Knable once he returned from injury. They're all over the place and they had a phenomenal season. So if so, if this is the way that baseball is trending and it's working

for managers, I can't knock them for doing it. So I think what you're actually pointing out even more so when you do the Brewers, it's a lot of the good teams that don't have a a set closer at the moment. Necessarily the Royals don't have a sec closer, yes, of course, but but they're seeing that as something that's working and other managers are starting to adopt. But I think the frustrating thing is the is the good teams that you know are going to be good theoretically, they

don't have closures. Milwaukee, Boston, Philly, like those are three of the top teams in baseball, and you do not know their closer situation. Just disaster for fantasy purposes, Like we keep thinking that, all right, Boston is gonna win close to a hundred games, Philadelphia is gonna win close to a hundred games. But we do not know who the closer is. It's terrible. And then a guy like Josh Hayter, who will talk about throughout the program, where

do you draft Josh Hayter. Yes, the metrics are good. A couple of years ago Adam at Davino metrics were amazing. We had Kristovinski, his metrics were amazing. But yeah, he can help you and strike out a whip in e er A, but that all important save category. They're not helping you, and it's just very frustrating. You cannot rely on it. It is so so annoying. And that's why when we have Modica come on on Monday's right and

he's here talking about pitching. He did the relief picture right up for the athletic I make sure you go check that out. He says you have to have a plan going into and he predominantly drafts Rotissori, so you know you need the saves category. And he plays for an overall, so you can't ignore any category when it comes to rohto and you're playing for an overall. So that's why he says you need to have a plan

when it comes to saves heading into your draft. I just did a fifteen team league, the Great Fantasy Baseball Invitational. I walk away from that draft with Wait Davis, who I think is unquestionably the Rockies closer, and then I have three like, Okay, whatever you are, I don't really know what you are. I have Michael Gibbons, I have Drew steckond Writer, and I have Kelvin Herrera. It's a fifteen team league. I mean you're gonna at that point you just try and grab as many of those names

as you possibly can. I don't feel great about it, but I think in any fifteen team league where you need saves as a as a category, you're not really ever gonna feel great unless you spend like two or three of your top twelve picks on closers, and then that's gonna cause deficiency somewhere else. So it's tough. It's tough, especially in ROTO, and I think that's where it matters most. Like heads head categories, you could just punt the safe category,

like you could be like, that's fine. You can just load up on a bunch of you know, great starting pitchers and try to have good ratios and win strikeout categories and win wins every single week and just punt the saves category and then head to head points leagues. I think everyone's head to head points league is different, right, because there are starting pitchers who still have relief picture

eligibility Holan McHugh, Tyler Glass. Now guys like that where you can plug them into your relief picture spots and whatever. That's fine in my league. In my home leagues, um, we play it. You still have to use closers. Like, yeah, it's kind of like an honor system. If you see someone that has a starting pitcher who's in the relief picture spot, you have to like notify the commission or you have to like tell that person you have to

have two closers in your lineup. Still two relievers in your you have to have two relievers in your line up, Yes, but I mean both of those are twelve team leagues, and you know you'll be able to find like twenty four whatever relievers. They're not really as sought after in head to head points league. That's what I've noticed. They don't. They just don't score as points, is like starting pitchers. So normally for me leagues, I wait, I wait on closures. Yeah,

I know, I kind of do it. No, I mean you, you've got to be conscious of it. I kind of do what I've always done, to be perfectly honest with you, Frank, Like I draft one guy that I think I could count on, and I try to get a second guy that I'm pretty confident in, and I take a shot on the third guy and just what was like a quantity player. And that's what I try to come out of every draft with those three, like those three tiers essentially. And I agree with you, but that middle tier is

harder to find possible. That's why you know I've ended up with Michael Gibbons, the guy gave up five and runs. Is this we don't know? Let me do the Michel don't know. So last apparently you love him. Drafted him to give Michel Gibbons conversation. So last year around this time, I pinpointed to everybody Shane Green, like that was my guy. Shane Green is gonna be the closer we could count on him, and like, don't worry about the five years, right, He's going to get you a ton of saves. And

he did exactly what we asked for him. And that was like one that I nailed. So a couple so about a month ago, Franco's all right, like, who's the guy this year? Like it's really really tough. Do you have a guy that you think could be last year's Shane Green? So I said, all right, let me look, give me some time. I looked, and I looked, and I thought that, like Hunter Stricken was like too high on the list for this because I didn't count. So

I went with Michael Gibbons. If patient starts laughing at me, I'm like, now he's the only reliever we know in the on the Orioles. He's got talent. They wanted to be good. He's the guy. Frank drafts him. Florio drafts him. I told Frank and every draft, every draft, I'm gonna pick Michael Gibbons as that last dart throw as a closer. What happens next? He allows five runs to whole runs. Yesterday he gets fobbed in his first appearance. I'm like,

oh god, yeah, that's Michael Gillings not looking good. And that's basically the closer position as a whole. So correct, correct, That's that's what we're dealing with here. Yeah, and uh look, I mean there are stats to back it up to I looked over the past five years. UH, the number of relievers with thirty plus saves over the past five years, and it was seventeen. Went up in twenty fifteen to

twenty one. Every year since we've been seeing a steady decline, had sixteen closures with thirty plus saves seventeen all the way down to eleven. Eighteen was a repeat with eleven, but we also saw in twenty eighteen there were forty three relievers with ten plus saves greg and in twenty seventeen there were forty nine relievers with ten plus safe.

So over the past two seasons we've really seen whether it's due to injury or closure by committee, there's almost you know, there's between forty five and fifty relievers that are getting you ten plus saves, so there's not really many set guys that are getting you the thirty plus, but you kind of find more guys to sprinkled throughout who were giving you ten here and ten there. It's just you can't draft them. You're gonna end up spending

your fab throughout the year on those guys. Unfortunately, that's that's the nature of the betweens with the picture, because when do we come back. We'll give you that first year closure is the guy that we guys that we trust. How do we rank them? We'll let you know On the other side. Fantasy best Friends Forever, Fantasy Sports right here network Daily rodo dot Com. Learn from the game's best DFS players. We don't just give you advice. We

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how we can help you. Eight six six four eight four nine six two one eight six six four eight four nine six to one. That's eight six six four eight four ninety six one Scout Fantasy Sports. I got a guy for you who is absolutely in the top ten of pictures who I have decided I am not drafting this year. This guy has literally thrown close to

three thousand innings in his career. Last year may have been his best year, arguably his best year, and I'm not sure there's a gonna go to go but down because I'm paying full price for thirty six year old arm and his name is Justin Verlander. Weekdays to the four BM Eastern on the Fantasy Sports Network and on your popular podcast providers Fantasy Best Spreads Forever, Fantasy Sports Radio Network, Greg Susman, Franks Stample, A lot to come. We had Joe Nieri joining the program a little bit

later on today. I told forty he's gonna come on and talk a little relievers with us, and then our buddy Jim SNAs over at FanDuel he's gonna try to break down in the tougher closure situations to deal it. We also have the ducks in a row here as we've gotta pick random teams out and trying to figure out who the heck they're closer is. It should be fun game show style, Mike, It's gonna be a really

fun show. So before we do any of that, Frank, I wanted to get into the top tier, the guys we trust more than anybody, the guys that we can rely on. And I know that you're not exactly you know, I'm gonna draft the closing with the first or you know, the third round or something like that. I want to know how early you're willing to go and draft one of these guys. The top closer on my board is Edwin Diaz, who was just otherworldly last year. Two years ago I owned him. Uh, it was kind of struggle.

He lost his job, he didn't have the control definite, but Seattle you hated him last year, Seattle Um Seattle just they pulled him from the from the role momentarily, but they always wanted to give him back. Last year, it was a magical season for Edwin Diaz, so magical that he now pitches in Queen's. Seattle's rebuilding, they said, hey, we don't get a closer, were rebuilding. They moved him to Queens with Robinson Cano. Edwin Diaz now the closer

of the Mets. He's the number one closer on the board. How early did you take him? So as of right now, Edwin Diaz is NFBC A DP is pick fifty one. So if you played, yeah, fourth round of fifteen team league, if you're playing a twelve team or that's the early fifth round, that's a steep price to pay. Man. And look at the past two seasons, who who has been

the top reliever being drafted. And I'm not saying that this is definitely gonna happen to Edwin Diaz, but the oldest chapman two years ago, he's going like the third fourth round. He ends up getting hurt. I think only has like twenty two saves two years ago. Kelly Jansen in my holy league went in the third round. Last Lee Janson last year the same thing was going in the third fourth round of a lot of drafts last season,

and he let people down. There's just there's a lot of turnover, there's a lot of volatility at the position. Look Edwin Diaz is amazing. Unquestionably, he was like second among relievers and swinging strike rate. He has nasty stuff and he's got the nineties seven mile fastball he's got he's got a slider that's nearly ninety miles per hour. I mean the k per nine up over fifteen. He

he limited the walks. That's really where he improved. Right two years ago you said he kind of fell apart four point three six walks per nine and twenty seventeen. That's all the way down to two point zero nine walks per nine with the sub two e r a a whip below zero point eight. He was amazing, There's no question about it. And you can't predict saves, That's what it comes down to. It's a lot like you

can't predict touchdowns in the NFL. Right running back one year has twenty touchdowns, I mean doesn't mean it doesn't mean he's gonna have twenty touchdowns again next year. I mean that's the difference in these in the fantasy value here for these players. And I think you know the projections on fangraphs have Eduin d has between thirty three

and thirty eight saves. Personally, I don't know how you can project any releas more than forty saves as great as his peripherals are gonna be, and we expect the Mets to be better. I mean, what happens if all the Mets players get hurt again and they suck and like he doesn't have that many clothes save opportunities. It's just really it's really hard to predict. I do say, like the strikeouts, the e r A, the whip, they're all gonna be great for sure, Like he's gonna be

a four category contributor once you get saves in there. Obviously, you can't predict wins for a reliever either he was he was you know, zero wins, four losses last year. I mean, not that matters for a reliever, but I'm not gonna I'm not gonna own Edwin Diaz. That's what it comes down to. I mean, it's like he's like it's just as likely that a guy like Brad Hand or Roberto Osuna or or all the chapman leads a

league and saves as it is Edwin Diaz. You just you can't predict save some one year to the next. He's going to be elite in three other categories as well. So I have nothing bad to say about Edwin Diaz, but me personally, I can't use a fourth fifth round price tag on a closer. Yeah, I can't do it either. I understand that the um peripherals are awesome, of course

n DZ. His line was awesome. But what he gives you, which is theoretically a lot of saves, Like, all right, you can do the quantity thing um you get great, You're a great whip. You can do a little reliever later, like I can get the quantities of save from the saves later. I can get all of this later. And I want I don't want to invest in early round pick on a closure. I know some people's strategies are to do that. They oh, they strongly believe in it. I've been leaves where you see him go in the

third round. As I just mentioned, I can never be that guy ultimately. Now, you didn't say there's a lot of flux with or all this chatman Kenley Jansen. Guys have gone to the third or fourth round of the past. I will say this, both of those guys still remain in my tier one, So there has been some reliability on those guys. I know they've battled some injuries, both of them, both I still believe remain in Tier one. For actually have Kenley Jansen in the second tier. How

big is that tier for you? So for for me, the first tier is Edwin Daz trying and roll the Chatman, Craig and bro Okay, so I have Jansen in that first year along with for me Phelipe Vasquez as well. Yeah, so I have Tier two as still pretty damn good, but just not nearly as good as like those top guys. I have Brad Hand, Kenley Janson, Felipe A Vasquez, Roberto Sona,

and then the aforementioned Josh Hayder. So you've hit her there. Okay, it's interesting, and that's just because I mean, he's gonna give you like a hundred and thirty d forty strikeouts, whatever it is, it's still valuable, and maybe he'll give you like ten to fifteen as. I don't think I'm gonna own Josh had either anywhere. I've done four drafts. I haven't drafted him anywhere. You cross your mind the draft going to be honest with you, are not really

just doesn't seem like someone you can look. You can make it work, but you're also going to have to use another pick around where you take Josh had right, So Josh hayd is going to pick three off the board. You're also going to have to use a pick around there to get one of like the relievers going right around him, right, Elly Glaciers, Kirby Yates, Josela Cleric Way Davis. I'm gonna have to use two picks in a similar

range just to get yourself some saves. So in tout Wars last night, just for the record, the team that drafted Josh Hayter draft the hater in the eighth right. Their next closure was in the tenth right around there. Like you said with Wade Davis, it's exactly what we're gonna have to do. You have to get the saves from somewhere. If you want to compete in a Road to History league, you can't. Look, you can win in rohdo but while getting a fifteen, well, well, while getting

no points finishing the last in a category. You can do it. It's very hard. You basically have to be top three in every other category. It's doable, but it's really like, you don't have to win the category. You could be in the middle of the pack. You can whatever. If you end the season with uh, you know, seventy five total saves, seven saves and you're in the middle of the pack, you could still win in rot like then it just it decreases the margin of error that

you need for all the other categories. So I would say, just don't completely tank or punch a category when it comes to roto and you know, if you're taking Josh Hayter, you're not You're getting like maybe ten of fifteen saves is what you're hoping for. But you're also gonna have to come back around and use you know, pick either

your next pick or two rounds later. Like we saw in in tow Wars last night they had to go and get way Davis two rounds later, which is probably a good combination to pair together because Josh Hayter, I'm gonna get you a lot of strikeout. It's gonna have elite e R a elite whip. Waite. Davis is a guy who I would say is safe for at least thirty saves, maybe thirty five plus saves. Um. But I kind of worry about the era and whip when it comes to Wade Davis. So maybe that's a good combination.

Two guys to the draft together there. Maybe so maybe, so let's go back to the top though, if Edwin Diaz his first all on every expert's board, including our own Frank Stample. Number two everywhere is Blake Trinon. Now, Trinon was a guy last year that I think we all pinpoint. It was like, oh, we'd loved that Blake Triinan. The problem was everyone kind of noticed the same thing

we were, that how good his stuff was. At the end of once he went went over to the a's everyone jumped on board on that and he went relatively early for a closer as someone that you're taking a shot on, but you believed him and trin it was absolutely fantastic for Oakland. They brought into jerryus Familia. They've brought in other guys like Fernando Roddy and tried and still held on in that job with a full grip. Last season he comes in as a as one of

the safest closers on the board. Now he's always had this stuff. Now it's under control. His mental health isn't the right spot. Blake trying clearly the number two closes on the board this year. Yeah, I agree with everything you just said too. And this is what I'm talking about where you can't predict closers and you can't predict saves.

Right because Lake trying the versus Edwin Diaz. You can argue that Blake training was better edwins he has had more strikeouts, but trying to had a zero point seven eight e r A. He was amazing. He had at zero point eight three whip. You can argue that he was at least on par or better than Edwin Diaz. The difference you get thirty eight saves. He had nineteen fewer saves than Edwin Diaz. And and this is just something that you can't predict on a year year basis.

You know, the Oakland A's, I still do think that they're gonna be competitive this year. I think they you know, they're gonna be an over five club. They're they're probably gonna be in a lot of close games. But Blake trying, and for all intents and purposes, he made that next step. He absolutely did, Greg, You're right about that kept the walks down two point three five walks per nine. The Cave per nine went up to a career high over eleven.

He's got, you know, just a nasty, nasty arsenal of you know, he's got a a ninety seven mile pro fastball, he's got a fourth seamer and a sinker. He's got a nasty, nasty slider as well. You know, you go watch on Twitter and you you look up Picture list our guy Nick Pollock or you see Pitching Ninja. They're they're throwing out a bunch of these gifts. A lot of them are Blake Trinan because he just has a nasty,

nasty slider. I like him a lot as well. He's going over the past week NFBC ADP about ten picks later than Edwin Diaz. Unfortunately, Greg, it's still just not late enough for me to grab my my first closure. I'm kind of with you where, you know, maybe I'll grab my first closer between round seven and nine, and Blake trying is just not falling that far. You know, he's going to pick sixty one on average right now.

So again, you know, in a in a twelve team league, he's right around you know, the end of the fifth early sixth round and in a in a fifteen team league, he's going, you know, early fifth round. So it's just too too high of a price tag for me to play hey for a closer. Yeah, I just can't do it. It's just not how I build my teams traditionally. And call me a traditionalist, and that's fine. I never like how my team comes out when I take a closer that early. Now, it's tough, you know, Frank, when you

see these closers just fly off the board. And you've been in a couple of drafts. Now you see him, You're like, crap, I missed this run. And when you're on the ends, you don't want to miss those runs. It's very, very hard to do if you really have to be conscious you have a strategy with that, do you, I mean, because you don't want to be so early. If you missed the run, you missed the run and that sticks. Yeah. I mean, look, it's just it's a

field for the draft. I mean every draft is going to be different, but it's a feel, it's a field type of thing. And you know, it's not the worst thing if you start a run if you're on the end, because if you start you start that run right, like say you're on a six seven and you take like a Brad Hand or if you take a Roberto Osuna. I mean that's you know, we're talking about like the top seven eight guys. That's kind of like the last

of those top seven eight, like legitimate elite close. Yeah, me too, And so if you start that run, it's not the worst thing because you know that when it comes all the way back to you, a lot of other teams are gonna notice they need to grab a closer, and it's gonna dry up very quickly. Like when you get to that eight nine, you're probably looking at the likes of you know, jose La Clerk would be lucky if Kirby Yates is there even like a way Dave is type. So um, it's just something you have to

be conscious of. But if you're on if you're on the ends of these drafts, you know, don't be afraid too. I'm not saying you have to do a fourth fifth round, but once you get to like one of these six seven type turns or even eight nine, I mean you got by by the ninth round, you have to grab your first closer. I mean that's normally, what I tell myself by the ninth fout have to have at least one closer on my team. Okay, okay, just trying to

understand the strategy. There another guy that was in your tier one you said, uh, was Craig Kimber, of course. And at what point we're mid March? Man, what is March six? Right now? Right? We're mid March. We have our draft next Thursday. I don't want we have another draft Tuesday after that? What are you doing here? And he's following down from craft Boards and rightfully, so you see the a DP for Craig Kimber all the way

down to eighty four point nine eight. Now over the past week, he's actually going behind the likes of Kennley, Jansen, arrollas Chatman and now Brad Hand because we're getting closer and the closer you get to the start of the regular season and you know, play or two haven't signed. I get worried about those guys, because, as we've seen over the past couple of years, Greg, if theseels, if these pictures pictures specifically need spring training, they need to

get into a groove. If you're a reliever, maybe not as much as a starting picture. But if you're a reliever, you want to get four or five appearances in throughout the spring and you know, start to get your velocity taking up a little bit. You have to get these appearances in, and the closer you get to the start of the regular season and they're still not signed, it's just the more I tend to worry about these guys. Kimberle is much much more talented than a guy like

Greg Holland. But remember last year Greg. With Greg Holland the year before with the Rockies, he was phenomenal, turned down a qualifying offer. He doesn't get a job until, you know, nearly the end of spring trainer signs on with the St. Louis Cardinals, and it was a disaster. He was cut by mid season. And then he pitched obviously much better for Washington late last year. And why because he you know, he time Rick and Burle is

better than Greg Holland, there's no doubt about it. But he's human and he has pitched a lot of endings over the past couple of years, and he pitched deep into October last year as well. The Red Sox won the World Series as tough as Edits for for me to say out loud. How about the year before when Kenley Jansen goes deep into the playoffs? Right? Not the same the next year. He barely pitched in spring training last year because that was part of like his offseason regiment.

I mean, there's just there's too much in play here for Craig Kimbero. There's too much risk where he's going, you know, inside the top eighty five picks, So he's he's not gonna be on any of my teams. It's not a talent thing with Kimbero. It's just the fact

that he hasn't signed just has me worried. You know, I'll pivot to a guy like Brad Hand who has been pitching, or you know, a guy like Roberto Sona who has been in camp with these guys, or you know, maybe even a few picks earlier, taking a role as chatman someone like that, just because he's been around and he's doing it right now, Greg, how scared are you of the teams that Kimberaller has the rumors of gol like Washington, like if you draft Seawan Doolittle, Like, how

nervous you about that? Of course, the National. It would be brutal. The Nationals have come out and said, hey, we have our budget. It is what it is. But somebody at some point, I have a bunch of money now that they didn't use on Bryce Harper. Well, they're gonna go over the luxury tax for that. But like, the point is Kimbera's gonna sign somewhere and he's not signing somewhere to not be the closer. Oh, what are

the chances he doesn't sign? Minimal? I mean it's it's normally at some point he's normally like a leverage thing, like you know, I'll sit out of season. It's fine, Like will that price come down enough for the Red? Soxs just sign? It's left. The season starts, dude, the technically the season so you're using the tops, realize the season starts in twenty two days, two days, Top five pig, I'm not taking he's super talented. Look, I hate to like the arm thing, Big Red. Where the seriously where

the places that we've heard him rumor two? Most Atlanta and Washington, Yes, in the in the least. I think Atlanta would make a lot of sense because Hurt Rody's this kay, you know, like these relievers are fine, but the Atlanta Braids have aspirations of making the playoffs and competing. I think Craig Kimball would kind of put them over the edge. That would really really fortify their bullpen. I think that makes a lot of sense. I mean, he helps every bullpen, but the Nationals I feel all right

about their bullpen the way it is right now. I think it is fine. He just has to stay healthy. And then with the Phillies, I mean, David Robertson has been a setup man in the past couple of years with the Yankees. He's definitely capable of being a closer. There's no question in my mind, Sir Anthony Domingius has

the stuff. Didn't necessarily, I guess have like the closer mentality last year when it came to it's a real thing great, I mean, of all the things, I actually do agree with the King on that, like the closer mentality is actually a thing. It's not there. There are relief pictures that are great as a setup man, and then once you make them closer, why do they suck up so much? Sing Greg because they can't handle it. They can't handle the pressure. That's the closure mentality. I mean,

it's real, it's a real thing. Greg. Sorry, sorry, that's not what you want to hear. But there's too much risk going on with Craig Kimball right now. I completely agree obviously with the Kimbo town probably with Kimber There's just no way I'm doing it. You mentioned pivoty into a Raulda Chapman if you would take a guy in the same spot. Now, Araldus Chapman obviously has been very very good for a very very long time at this point.

Now Oralda's Chapman who you can see the graph behind us right like, he's amazing, but he's battled knee issues. He said the last couple of years. That fastball, which is consistently at one or three in the past, it's like and we've seen him certainly up close as Yankee fans here, frank where it's been like a little nerve racking with Araldis Chapman. The Yankees in that bullpen have Dylan Patances, they have Zack Britain, they have Chad Green, They have a lot of guys that if Chapman falters,

they could take over. And he's faltered in the past. He has lost his job as a member of the New York Yankees within the past couple of years, yet he's still in Tier one FIAT. It's that's a famine. It was more like injury related. He lost his job. M dude, it happened, yeah, but it was like because he came back from injury and he like wasn't pitching well and weird. Let's take good break when we come back.

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available right now at rodal experts dot com. With that, we bring in the host of Make It Rain and one of the members of our team for the morning after. It's my guide show here an area. What's up shoe? Hey guys, how are you excited? Baseball season is here? And I can tell you right now because of this gig. If I don't end up winning, uh, you know the leagues I'm in this year, I'm never gonna hear it again.

Of it. So I'm looking forward to picking both of your brains about what I should do it when the upcoming draft. We appreciate it. And the worst part is when you do this every day on a daily basis, and then you finish towards the bottom of your league standings and it never goes well with your friends. You're like, you're your professional, this is your job and you suck. And I was like, yeah, they're not wrong, They're not something I wanted to ask you, Joe, like, do you

how many fantasy leagues do you play in? And I know that you played, uh at least college ball. I don't know if you played anything higher than that. What what position did you play? I yeah, I played college. I played in the minors too for a couple of years. I was an outfielder. I was a center field or so, yeah, I was. I was able to hit for a little power, and I was able to run a little bit, which

was which was served me well. I was usually at the top of the you order, somewhere around one or two, so it it worked as well. So I got a little idea of the game of baseball, you know, having been there and done that. And of course I'm one of these guys that's been in, you know, the same leagues with the same guys for the last twenty years kind of thing. So having this job is just put that much more pressure on me. So I'm looking to

you guys for sure. Right if we do end up ever making a softball team, which is probably not gonna happen, we're gonna need Joe to to ship up here. Oh man, we got that, We're in. We got I got you, I got you all. So we're talking about the top tier of closures before we brought you on here, Joe.

Are we talking about that top tier? And that includes Craig Kimbroll, who's just not on the team, and it makes drafting him really, really impossible because, as Frank described a few moments ago, when guys like a Greg Holland signed really late and then you just show up to camp a week before the season starts, doesn't work out very well. When Kenley Jansen pitched even the postseason a couple of years ago, just like Craig Kimberal did last year,

it doesn't work out very well. Kimberal's being drafted anywhere from the fourth round of the eighth round. It is hard to decide what to do with Kimberall. What do you Where do you think Kimberall ends up? Where would you draft him? Would you draft him? What are your thoughts Craig Kimberal. You know, I have a feeling Kimberall is gonna go to the Washington Nationals UM. If he doesn't, then you know what Sean Doolittle is doing, right, So we already know where where he's going to be in

the pecking order. But to me, I do think Kimberroll is going to He's gonna head over to the National League, and from what I'm here in the the Nationals could very well. They gotta sure something up in that in that bullpen, especially if they're going to contend the National League East we know is probably to me the most competitive of all divisions between the Mats and the Braves and the Nationals and the Phillies. Now the question is, and it always comes down to it, you guys know this,

who's going to have the better bullpen? Uh, certainly down the stretch, and I think Kimball will go a long way into Now that the Nationals don't have to pay Bryce Happer, I think they can afford to give Kimball what he wants. So that's that's what that's what you were saying. We were just talking about the Atlanta Braves. I think I think, you know, the and at least

makes a lot of sense for him. But I was reading with the Nationals that now that they didn't sign Harper, they're just like, you know what, we'll reset our luxury tax and yad under the luxury tax. Right now, I believe at least under a certain tier of that luxury attack to maybe he's not the first one that under the second one one and they don't want to go over.

They have, like I think I read three and a half million dollars left to spend, and they're just not like Kimbera obviously is going to cost more than three and a half million dollars. Well, the problem with do you know the guy that got Nanna Doolittle has had

health issues. He's not a guy that they can exactly count on to to be there down this stretch and kimber will certainly it might cost a little more, but we'll give you that, you know, that piece of mind knowing that you can definitely win with him in the pen. I can't disagree with that. I will say this, you know, if Doottle could say healthy, which is a big question mark obviously, I think they have theirselves a nice little

trio already with the Nationals. You know, any team can use Craig kimberal it's just, you know, are they willing to go over that looks retected you mentioned Greg. I mean, I think this would put their bullpen over the edge, like he would make them like a really really eleait bullpen, but you look behind Doottle, they have Trevor Rosenthal has had closing experience kind of all over the place Cardinals,

and then with Kyle bar Claud too. I mean they traded for him last year with Miami, so they clearly like him. Another guy who throws heat and could get strikeouts but struggles with walks at times. So I think that their bullpen is find the way that it is right now. Obviously Kimbera would put them over the edge. I think it's really a two team race right now between the Nationals and the Braves me personally, the Phillies. Phillies too, but I mean they've already spent so much

money like they it looks not if they want to do. Yeah, the Phillies are also one of these teams. We know that with Gabe cap or there. They are so into analytics. I mean it is literally going to be whatever the computer spits out for the best matchup of bad at batage is going to be there. And I don't necessarily know that that's going to fit what Kimberall wants to do. Kimball is an old school giving the ball ninth inning.

I'm gonna get it closed, and the Phillies are going to be all about whatever the analytics tell us is the best matchup. And that's actually a great point too, because as of right now, he can do that. He he has that luxury of you know, he goes Sir Anthony Dominguez, he can go David Robertson. I don't know if they have like a lefty specialist. I assume they do. But if that's a route that they wanted to go to, if three lefties are coming up in the ninth, that

should happen as well. And this all just plays into what we said earlier on in the show that there are more teams that are apt to going towards this like committee approach where it's like, Okay, let me just do what the analytics are telling me to do. Let me just go with the best matchups. Here. We've heard the Reds come out and say with rice Ley Glaciers, hey, we're gonna use him the way, you know, kind of similar to how Josh Hayter was used with the with

the Milwaukee Brewers last year. We're gonna use Riceley Glaciers in the biggest leverage spot in the game. That could be the sixth ending with the bases load, that could be the seventh ending with the bases loaded, That could be the ninth ending, you starting the ninth ending with the one world lead. So it kind of it makes figuring out relief pitchers and bullpens and closers specifically trying

to get safe for fantasy baseball that much more difficult. No, absolutely, absolutely, Philly would obviously be a bad spot for Craig kimberal for the exact reason both you and Joe. And that's part of why it hasn't happened already, right, Like, maybe maybe Kimber's agent is telling them, like, hey, if we come to Philly, we need assurance that we're going to be like the set closer. And maybe Gay Kapler's on the front office like no, like I'm gonna do things

my way. He did his he did things his way last year, Why would he change it now? Actually? And it also, I mean his fantasy value, Kimber's fantasy value is going to be directly tied to what team signs him, right, I mean, what ball are will be talking that this guy is gonna be coming in and and pitching and relieving. I think that's also going to have a lot to do as far as where are you going to draft

him or take a shot with him? Really at this point, now, how about this Greg, I mean looking over his fan grafs page right now. Look, he's he's thirty years old. He's gonna turn thirty one at the end of May. This year. Here, the strike ass were a three year low in terms of k per nine. He was thirteen point eights. Still very good, it's great, but it was

a three year low. The walks four point four eight walks per nine that was that was the uh, the second highest of his career as a full time closer, nine over one, which was also the highest of his career. Like, we're starting to get some signs. I mean, maybe that's why a team doesn't want to hand out a five year, one hundred million dollars. Well, I think it's spent five years a hundred million dollars a reliever anymore. Well, it didn't really, it didn't really hurt the Yankees from nearly

giving it to the role. But that's a couple of years ago. It wasn't a hundred million, it was eighty million. Just saying it was still a record contract. Show the signs that you're saying, yeah, but roll this. Chapman. Also at the time, you remember what a lot of people said, he's not gonna age. Well right, I mean, we're already starting to see the fastball velocity took down a little.

Let me throw that to Joe there throughout the Joe I was mentioning before the break that rallis Chapman's had some knee injuries here or the issues I should say. The velocity now still a hundred miles for hour, but the hundred three hundred five we saw. I know that sounds so ridiculous, but as I said yesterday in the show, players catch up to a fastball. If you can continue to throw at the same speed, they're going to catch up, no matter if it's a hundred miles prowd. We have

seen that repeatedly. That's why even though um his strikeout numbers keep her nine went up last year, it was because of increased usuit of usage of the slider. Increased uses of the slider could cause arm issues. We've already seen knee issues. Are you at all worried about or rather Chapman this year, Well, we already heard from Sonny Gray right. Apparently all Yankees all they want is their pitchers that throw sliders. So I guess that's the reason why he sucked as bad as he did. So it's

it's definitely going to be the slider. But with Chapman, it's it's will he reach six d innings? You know, will he be valuable enough that you're going to draft him high enough? Are you gonna get sixty endings out of him? Fatigue, getting older, injuries all something that you have to take into consideration. I will say this, though. The good thing about the Yankees bullpen is it's deep

enough where they can give Chapman that extra rest. They can space him out a little bit better than they might have been able to in a few years past.

So if he is showing signs of fatigue and kind of wearing down, uh, the Yankees do have other options in that bullpen other than just Chapman, Chapman, Chapman, chap You're absolutely right, and that's what scares me from a fantasy perspective, because if he's slowing down, he does need a break, and he's a couple of days off and he's a week off whatever, they do have other options, and you have to wonder, Frank should he be considered in this tier with Trin in with and when Diaz

when the mention the reasons that Joe mentioned are a good potential reason, dude, drop him a little bit. It actually, you know, talking about it now reminds me a lot of what the Dodgers do with their starting pitchers, right the luxury to put a on a phantom dl Stont with Clayton kirk Kershaw, you know, likely not going to

start the season in the rotation. They have all this depth from Quentomata to Hinjin Ryou to ros Stripling, where you know they don't have to push those guys as hard as they you know, another team normally would because they have so much depth. The Yankees bullpen kind of reminds me a little bit of that. So you go, I think you guys are onto something here. I will say this. I mean in terms of the e r A, the whip and the strikeouts, he's still a three category.

I mean he's he's a great contributor. I mean he's not gonna have the sub zero point zero whip like a guy like Edwin Diaz or Blake Trying and because Chapman still walks too many guys. It's always been a issue for him. But the strikeouts last year were still there. I mean sixteen point three k per nine. The swinging strike rate was up to you're talking about him using the slider more so. I mean, look, the strikeouts still there. The E R A, the whip is still gonna be great.

Um So, I think he his value is adequate where he's going in drafts. If you want to pivot to somewhere else, like right now, he's going in a B C, A DP pick off the board. Um so, he's going just behind. You know, the only relievers going ahead of him all right now are Blake trying to Edwin Diaz and and Kenny Jansen is going a few spots ahead of him, and as well, they're all right in the same area. And then a little bit further down, like five six picks, you get the brad Hands Roberto as

soon as in the world. If you think those guys are safer and healthier than I can't really knock you for it. We'll let me bring up Kenny Jansen to you here, Joe, because I have Kenny Jansen inside my top tier. Frank does not uh Jensen, of course, been the closer for a very long time with the Dodgers. You see the graphic on the screen, thirty six saves in each of his past five seasons. He's had some hard issues last year, so he was on the d L.

Supposedly those are all in the past. Are you comfortable to taking Kelly Janson in this tier? No, I'm not, as simply for that fact that listen to, these guys are only valuable to us from a fantasy perspectives if a we can count on them having a good enough offense to be able to be put into a safe position and be that they're going to be the guy on the mound and to be able to go ahead and collect that save and give us the points. And

you know, I just I'm not sure. I'm not confident the the way like I'm not confident with uh, you know, with Chapman here. Is he going to be the guy on a consistent enough basis? Is he gonna get those sixty innings? I don't know anymore at this point in his career, especially with the hard issues. And you know, they could shut him down for two three months and then what do we do? How about this greg it's three years in a row now. The Dodgers have made

a deep run into the postseason. Henley Jansen has gone at least eighty innings three years in a row now with the postseason included. And we saw, you know that the type of effect that had from seventeen into eighteen. Last year, a lot of struggles early on for Kenley Jansen went with that cutter, giving up a lot of home runs. The strikeouts were down last year. I mean ten point three zero walk for nine still very good, right for for your your average reliever, but that was

a career low for him. I mean his swinging strike rate was also a career low. Now we're looking at a three point zero one e r A, which all right, I mean that's not in the same elite type of category like some of these other guys that are being drafted around him. And you know, the whip was still great, I mean it was still under one. He doesn't really walk a lot of guys. But you know, we're for getting an ear a over three now and maybe you have to worry about workload and not getting the same

amount of strikeous. I just think there's too many things moving here when it comes to Kenley Jansen, and I mean, like I've said, from a lot of these other guys, typically I'm not going to be using like a a fifth, sixth round pick on a closer, and that's still where Kenny Janson is going. I thought that you would get more of a discount heading into this season on Kenley Janson, and it's just not there. I think that the name, the name value is just too high. When it comes again,

keep keep in mind to the Dodger Stadium. I believe they were tenth or eleventh last year and giving up home runs, so you know that could affect his e r A to moving along through the season. Yeah, I

didn't think there would be a discount in all. Honestly, when it comes to Kenley Janson, the name value that you mentioned, and let's be frank, the landscape right the landscape where it is so hard to pinpoint who these guys are, and the consistency that you're never gonna get a discount a guy that you know can get the job done and has over and over and over again. I think the health concerns will push him outside of that. What you're talking about elite status out there of a

guy that. I think the health concerns are something that you have to seriously consider at this particular point if you're gonna keep him in that upper tier of closers, because you know, I just don't know if he's going to be there. I mean, that's that's going to be

a crapshoot. Kenny Jansen outside these top tier four front stadfle that includes Edwin Diaz, Blake trinan Ouraldus Chapman and Craig Kimberle if he ever gets back on the field any else nor Actually, you know, every day I do rankings updates, So I've I've lowered Kenny Janson number seven. I have Lord Kimberle down to eight. So who who's my four or five? Six? Are Brad Hand, Phelippe A Vaskis and Roberto Out of those three guys, Joe, I know we lived in a minute you left with you.

But out of those three guys Hand, oh sooner, Felipe Vai Vaska is, of course, who would you rather have. I'm kind of like, uh, I'm thinking Hand to tell you the truth, I kind of like, uh, I kind of like the situation that's he's in, and well, listen, can we really go wrong with any of these guys? I mean, honestly, he was from San Diego, right, he's this guy is what was the e r A last

year two point seven two seven five. Yeah, so I I think he's in a I think he's in a pretty good situation with a team that's going to score an awful lot of runs for him too as well. Yeah. Look, I agree, that's how I haven't ranked. I have Brad Hand as my fourth guy. I do think this is kind of like the range that I'm gonna live in if I if I want to try and get my

first reliever in that, you know, seventh round range. If I could get one of hand Felipe A Vasquez or Roberto Sona, maybe you pull Roberto Soon up a little bit higher because the Astros expected to be better than the pits. You can't do that, yes, Braces. But with Brad Hand, I mean it's three years in a row now of him being legit, like you have up going to worry about a two point nine two year a or less each of the past three seasons, a one point one one whip or less each of the past

three seasons he had. He's had over a hundred strikeouts as a reliever three years in a row, Greg, So you want to talk about just in terms of stuff, he is elite. The Indians gave up Francisco Miha, who was the top catching prospect in baseball, to get him in return, so they clearly trust him. He's gonna be the closer. Andrew Miller is not there anymore. You don't

have to worry about that, you know. If I think if there's anyone who's going to make that next jump, like who's this year's Edwin Diaz, I think Brad hands a good answer. I think Bible he's got forty saves him for sure, without a doubt. Fair enough. Jo are the host of Making Rain with Dame Martinez six to nine am Eastern Time here in the Fantasy Sports Network. You also catch him right after that on the morning after we gave Borenci. Joe, we appreciate the time to

get some sleep. Appreciate it, guys, thanks so much. Absolutely. When we come back, we are joined by Jim Soddis of Fan Duel and of course the close up for the closer episode of the BFFs. Chris Spencer joins us next