Hi. I'm Elia Connie, host of The Family Therapy Podcast, a Black Effect original series where each week, real families with real lives have real conversations. In celebration of BIPOC Mental Health Awareness Mound, we're inviting you to participate in your own live session Join me live on Black Effects Instagram on Wednesday, July seventeenth. We're doing this event to highlight the importance of mental health within BIPOC communities and to provide a space where you can share your experiences
and receive guidance. Attendees can expect a safe and supportive environment where we'll engage in open, honest conversations. Whether you're facing personal challenges or seeking to strengthen family bonds, this event is for you. Please note participation is on a first come, first serve basis, so be sure to arrive early and engage respectfully. If you're interested in joining a guided conversation with me, send a direct message or DM to The Black Effect and confirm your participation before we
get into this episode. There has been a lot of conversations around politics, given the recent debate and some of the Project twenty five stuff and some of the other things going on in the world, and I want to talk about how does the climate of politics as we're currently experiencing it affect our mental health. I think it's really important to acknowledge that some of the things going
on in the world create fear, anxiety, and depression. The way America is going and the way the Conservative Republicans want to transition America and remove some of the rights that we have been fighting for for so long literally creates anxiety amongst people of color, amongst women, and we fear that our rights are going to be taken away from us. And it's not a it's a fear that they're actually telling us they're going to do these things. So the most likely response is a response of fear
and anxiety. I think back to twenty twenty and the very tumultuous year that it was, and not just with COVID, but with all of the things going on from a social justice perspective, and I think about George Floyd, and I think about Amman Aubrey, and I think about the Black Lives Matter movement and all of those things that
are happening. And I'll never forget my mother experiencing anxiety, as my mother is the parent of three African American men, and she actually worried that her three sons would die at the hands of some sort of a riot or some sort of an encounter with police. I had never seen that fear on my mother's face. I'd never heard that fear in my mother's voice until the administration that was in place at the time was rolling back certain protection and certain things related to civil rights and social
justice that was causing it upheaval in society. That literally caused her to fear losing one of her children in that environment. So now we have the same politicians that were fighting for the White House at that time doing it again, and there is a fear and an anxiety if the former President Trump becomes a president again, we're going to go back to that level of roll back again.
He's told us overtly this is going to happen. There's a fear that we're going to go back to that level of upheaval, and people of color are not always safe in an environment like that. So we absolutely have to be aware that our mental health is impacted by what happens politically, by how much news we consume and what we understand about what's going on in that news, and we have to also be active participants in democracy, because that is actually how you would dress that mental
health fear. That is actually how you address the fear being created by this environment. Is we have to become active participants in the democracy and exercise the rights that so many of our African American ancestors have fought for so that we don't have to worry about someone like President Trump regaining office and doing the things that he has promised he would do, because our vote and the
power of our vote would be impactful. If every African American went to vote, we would be forcing the politicians to attend to our agenda. But the truth is we are underrepresented at the polls, and mostly because I think we have a level of indifference about what happens in these elections, and we need to instead have a level of empowerment and respect the process that it took for us to get the right to vote. That's the only
way to force these politicians to attend to us. It's the only way to guarantee that no politician will ever take office again and roll back our rights, and it's the only way to address our mental health. We experience mental health crisis. And this is just unilaterally, this is not just in a political climate, but it's just kind of a rule of thumb. When we are in an environment where we experience it is like we're helpless, like we're just kind of along for the ride, we tend
to suffer from a mental health perspective. So the antidote to that, the solution to that is empowerment. It's participation. So if you're in an environment where you feel like things are happening around you, you don't have any control over it, the way to solve that is to engage in things that give you the perception of control, that gives you the perception of influence.
Right.
An example of that was my mental health was struggling as a child. I was in an environment where my father was really aggressive, mean and abusive, and I was just kind of subjected to his mean and abusive behaviors. When I learned that once I graduated my school, I can go live in a college door room, that to me sounded like safety, Like that sounded like an escape. So my participation in that future was studying and getting
good enough grades that I could get into college. You see, So once we feel like we are participating in the reality instead of just being subjected to it, then we tend to improve our mental health even if the problem still persists. So I encourage everybody to get out and vote, because we need to participate in this democracy so that we don't have this democracy participating upon us. Welcome back
to Family Therapy. I'm your host, Elliot Khanni, and as usual, I'm gonna keep asking you guys this every single episode. As long as you can hear my voice, you're gonna hear me asking this question. And it's not just for me doing it. It's actually because I want to shift your perspective and have you focus on the things in your life that bring you joy, peace, love and happiness.
If you don't attend to them intentionally, then you've missed them, and that is what's been better since you last listened to the previous episode. Just take a minute and just think what have you enjoyed in your life since you listened to the previous episode. I promise just doing that exercise and thinking about things that you enjoyed will make
a difference in your life. People often ask in a relationship, is it necessary to heal as individuals before healing the relationship, and the most common answer is people say yes, like I have to be healed in order to participate in a relationship. But the simple truth is that's actually not accurate. When you enter into a relationship, you are agreeing to co construct an environment with your partner, and that environment
it should be warm, comfortable, nurturing and healing to that partner. Now, I wanna say this with a caveat, like it's not my job to fix people, but there really is no such thing as healed. Healing is a process, and all of us have been through something, and all of us have scars, wounds, traumas, and things that are impacting us. So it is our responsibility when we get into a relationship with a partner is to create an environment that
facilitates their healing. If we continue to hold onto the perspective that I can't really get into a relationship to till I'm healed, you'll never be ready and you'll never be able to get into a relationship because there really is no such thing as fully healed. You will always carry those scars and wounds. They will always be sensitive spots, and they will always be trigger points. So the goal is to get into relationship with somebody that helps you
co constructive reality that facilitates your continued healing. Now, if that is not happening, perhaps that is not the right partner for you. But it is important to realize that every relationship that I'm in should be a relationship that facilitates my healing, in a relationship that helps me grow and become the better version of myself within the confines
of that relationship. This week's session highlights a conversation with Jay and David as they become aware of the shifts in their communication and the need to see a shared vision to move forward. How are you guys doing. What's been going well between the two of you recently?
I'm doing good. That's going well. David put up a pergola for me, so that's going good. I'm happy about that.
Very cool, Okay, David, do you enjoy doing that kind of thing?
It was cool because you know, it's like a sense of a sense of accomplishment, like I was able to get it done and it's up and it's working properly and all that stuff. It's finishing up some little touches to it, that's all.
It was cool, Okay. What else, what else we're going well between two of you.
I don't know what's been going well.
I mean the same things that's been going well. I feel like the communication is good. We're helping each other and in the ways that we can.
Okay, what's happening that makes you think the communication is going well?
Well?
I guess things like putting up the pergola, like I wanted it, I bought it, you put it up. I'm really happy about this pargola.
That's like your favorite thing right now.
It really is because I love being outside, So if I can be outside with a proper shade, I'm happy.
Well, that's got to be good. It's starting to warm up there.
Right, Yeah, it is, okay. I mean, you know, communication is not perfect, but you know, we talk to each other and that's fine.
Okay. Now, David, what about you? She said, She's she's responded so far. What about What have you noticed that you've been pleased with?
I probably have to say the same thing as communication. You have been communicating a little bit better.
David. You you had mentioned in a previous conversation. And I'm only bringing this up because both of you have said communication and David, you had mentioned a previous conversation that you're not really arguing anymore. Is that right?
True?
We don't never argue, I mean, we rarely argue. I don't feel like I know, communication has been brought up in the past, but I really don't feel like our ability to communicate with each other is necessarily been like attention point. I don't know that we necessarily well. I mean, I guess we don't really listen to each other that well. But our willingness to speak, or at least my willingness to speak about stuff, is never been like a challenge really because we get along, so we're not like an
argumentative type of unit like I would. Maybe we probably don't speak up as much as we could, but I don't feel like argument has ever been an issue. We've had some moments where arguments have come up, but that's not a norm for us, Okay.
I think it's Yes, it's not like we don't argue. Well, let me say, I feel like it's more like it's not a lot of biggering, you know, or plaining things of that nature, you know. I think that's that's I haven't we haven't been dealing with that lately for a little bit now. And that's why, you know, I feel like that's a little sense of relief too, because there's not a lot of back and forth and knit picking and blah blah blah blah blah blah. If you don't
like something, you just say. If I don't like something, I just say something needs to be done, we just try to do it, or whatever the case may be. I mean, my on my end is just like enough is enough, Just go ahead and do that shit. Like I know, you gotta say something like in my head, that's what I'm saying. I was like, bro, just go ahead and do it right, or go ahead, well whatever whatever it is. If it's something that has to be done physically, just go ahead and go do it. You know. Like for
an example, yesterday we both was running around. We both kind of tired. She had a call or whatever. I was about to take a call or something like that. You know, the dishes need to be washed. She came in. She was like, oh, you beat me to it. I was like, yep, but I already knew it. I saw the food out, I already knew what it needed to be done. The dishes needed to be done, and I know Jayalen don't like washing dishes and I don't need it though, But something as small as that she came
in in it was already done. I know. She was like thank you, like you know what I'm saying, like yeah, but you know, I feel like that's what it is.
That's amazing, Okay, cool. And I only brought it up Jay because it was it was mentioned and clearly there's been a shift in the communication. Are you enjoying it?
Jake, I don't really see the major shifts, so I don't know. Maybe I'm missing something.
I asked what's been better? And both of you said communication, So something must have shifted.
We said, what's been going good? And I feel like, but it's not necessarily better, it's just we've never had it, like I feel like the communication is continuing. Well, I guess that's that's my position on it. I don't feel like we've ever had like major communication issues. But that's just my perspective. Maybe for David he said bickering or kind of like you know, that type of communication, maybe that has been the case in the past on my end,
and I just wasn't that cognizant of it. But like the only The challenge I think that we have with communication is the listening. And I don't know that we necessarily listen to each other better. Maybe we do, I don't know, But if there was any communication issue, I would say, is the listening part not necessarily arguing?
Got you okay? Excellent? Both? Your favorite question? What are you hoping we can get accomplished today? I knew I knew it, I knew it.
Yeah, Well, I guess for me, I think we should explore, like what what things look like after this? So like, once we're finished with with your with the therapy with you, what the two of what are the two of us going to do? Are we going to get another therapist? Or are we going to try to continue therapy with you?
Are we you're happy you?
No?
No, no, you're happy to continue with me? I'd be happy to do that.
That would be beautiful. So that is one of the things I wanted to discuss. So, like, is that something that you want to do, David? Like do we feel it's necessary? And if we do feel it's necessary, like why what do we want? Like what's the end goal? What are we trying to achieve?
That's my question, Jay, right.
I mean yeah, I would definitely love to continue. That's one too. I still think it's some more things that has to be addressed or you know, dig a little deeper on certain topics. The end, I don't know the better, Like we say, all my one on one is the best version of yourself to help come together so we can be the best version of each other. I feel.
Sure enough.
I really don't. I feel like we're not going to graduate next week. I think we still got a couple more things that has to be done before graduation.
So okay, like what what would you like to see done? And who knows next week a thousand weeks, but what's the here's what I'd like to see accomplished between the two of us.
I just feel like if today was our last session, I probably have questions Like if today was our last one and then you know, me and Jay were sitting there we talking, I feel like we will probably come to a conclusion or things would get things would be brought up like yeah, we didn't hit dad, or you know, I think it's some more brainstorming that needs to be done to see I just don't think that if today was the last one, we're like, oh, thank you guys,
I you know, wonderful experience blah blah blah. I feel like, do we need another two three sessions? What you think? Like you know? And then we'll probably ask each other why. Like that's a good topic, let's write that down, let's sell Elliott about it.
So what would be the first two topics on your list? I don't know, Yes, you do, be honest.
My job.
I'm sorry, I'm trying to pull it out, like just say.
What Jay, I will. So I'm gonna I'm gonna accuse you of doing my job, but I'm also gonna accuse you of doing it pretty well. Actually, shut the hell up. I would never say that. But I'm over here thinking what y'all will need me? You doing it? But she asked a really good question day, like what would be like on the top of the list? Like here are the things I'd like to give dress? She said, top to But like just what what?
What?
What comes to the top of your mind? Mmmm?
I don't know. I gotta think, David, I gotta think what's comes to the top of your mind? I'm thinking the.
Time of my mind? No, you know the answer for you, I know the answer for me. But but I'd rather you say yours because I don't want you to change your answers on.
What I say. Good change nothing. I don't know. I don't know the change. I gotta know that. I gotta know what I want to say to change it. I don't know, So I'm not going to change it is nothing to change.
But I think she's afraid to influence your answer.
She's not going to influence my answer.
If you don't know, if you don't have an answer, it's easy to influence something that don't exist. But you know an answer though. That's the part that I'm.
Let me start with j.
All right, fuck it. The topics that I think are still kind of they need to be flushed out a little bit more. The goal of the relationship, Like what are we working towards? Is this still on the path of co parenting living separately? Like do you want to be in a relationship with me? Do I want to be a relationship with you? How are we helping each
other on our journey to being these better people? How does that trickle down to our children and then to our parenting when we see each other in the next year five years. Kind of the same topics that's always been on the table.
Okay, David, So what is what are you hoping will address.
Those? Right there? The topics that Jim said, It's like, those are the ones that I feel like, you know that we probably will hit or we need to hit those, But that was a given because I feel like those was never addressed anyway. But me personally is yeah, do we still want to Like I'm not trying to take an answer though, but I still like, which way are
we going? What are we working tours? Me personally, I feel like, you know, with changes and trying to be the best version of me, it can help me get to being the best version for us? Do we want to like it? Like it is a true statement? Do we want to be back in a relationship? Like how do is that something that I want to be done? Or is it time for us to just go our
separate ways or whatever the case may be. Like that's that's a real question, and you know, and then they just get down to like the code parents and stuff like that gotta happen. But at the end of the day, like I told you, Elliott, I feel like, you know, if I'm going down this journey doing everything I need to do, and you know, some of the the benefits of that is, you know, maybe gaining our relationship back. If that happens, yes, that's good, you know, while addressing
some of these other things. If that does not happen, right, how will I? How would Jay or me handle that? But I feel like if we are at that point that we the better version of ourselves, then we can handle whatever result is at the end. That's because it ain't the result that we was planning for. It don't mean that it's a bad thing because we're in a different our mindset is different compared to what it was months ago or a year ago, or whatever the case
may be. I think it's still some lingering, little probably anger that might still be lingering. It could be little one whoever part could be big on whoether part do? I still think is some of that out there a little bit right? And I feel like once all of that is clear and you're feeling, you know, both of us are feeling one hundred and twenty percent better with ourselves, healing within ourselves, then I think, like, you know, if we come back and meet in the middle, it would
be excellent. If we don't, I still think it's gonna be a good thing because we're gonna be in a different mindset for ourselves. That's it.
Let's let's pretend for a minute Jay's not here. What do you want in your like most idealistic brain, Like would you like a relationship with Jay? Would like would you like to move in that direction? And that be the thing that gets accomplished? Not even wondering, not even worried about how at the moment, but like, is that the thing you'd want?
Yes?
Okay? And and Jay, I'd ask you the same question, like, pretend Dave is not here in the most idealistic way, not thinking about how at the moment, but just if that's the thing that we're to be accomplished, is that what you would want?
You mean, like right now or no?
Just six months in that direction? Yeah, maybe tomorrow, maybe a month from now, maybe ten years from now. But just like if that's the ultimate thing that gets accomplished, is that what you would want?
I can't say concretely yes or no.
And I'm only asking this because like sitting on the fence, sitting in the middle is usually an uncomfortable space. So what is getting in the way of being like yes, I want to move in that direction, And again we're not talking about how yet. I and I understand if we are moving that direction, there's some things we got to over come, some things we got to achieve, and all that. But what's the barrier to being able to say, yes, I want to move in that direction or no? I absolutely don't.
Well, when David talks about, you know, they're being anger that we might both have for each other, I would say that, yeah, I do have, you know, resentment, because I feel like we've been doing this for ten years and I still feel like he's wasted my time in some ways. So I would have to feel confident moving forward that he's no longer wasted my time, that he is serious about the relationship, serious about marriage, and I don't see that yet. I think he absolutely cares, and
I think we both actually care about each other. I don't know that. I don't know that he wants to marry me. I know he says that he said it in the past, but I don't feel like his actions have kind of aligned with that. So I have no intentions on being someone's girlfriend for another ten years. So it's like, if that's not you know, a concrete thing that we're working towards. Then it's hard for me to say like, yeah, let's keep doing what we're doing.
No, that makes absolute ten.
So it's that part, and then you know we're still kind of working on ourselves, I guess, so like, yeah, you know there's been there's been growth for sure, but I don't know that is there just yet to say yeah, all right, we're gonna do this.
How how would it impact you if you knew he was absolutely serious about about you, about marriage, about you not being a girlfriend for another ten years, But like, how would that impact you if you knew for certain he was absolutely serious about that.
I mean we've talked about before. I'm a mission oriented person. So if that's the mission, that's the goal, then let's do it. You know, let's focus on.
That, right. But you are a very mission oriented person.
Yeah, so like if that's not it, then it's just like, okay, then that's not it. But if that is something that he says, like I'm absolutely I'm saving for a wedding ring like or a negaging ring, like I'm this is what I'm doing. I'm saving so that we are financially stable.
I'm I'm doing the work to put us in a position where you know, we're going to be comfortable in life, and and I want to work with you, and we're going to pay down our debt together, and we're gonna you know, identify where we want to live and make sure that this school district is solid and really, can you know, give our kids what they deserve? You know, like, if those conversations were on the table and I saw action towards them, it would feel great, But I don't really see that.
Would that activate your mission drivenness? If you will, if you see those.
Things, yeah, I think so. I think so, you know, I think it would definitely help. But I also feel like, you know, on an individual level, I haven't been very clear on what my own personal missions are as far as my own personal goals. So that's part of some
of the challenge that I have with myself. So maybe you know, having that collective goal would help me with you know, defining some of the personal goals I have to But either way, you know, the person stuff would have to have to figure that piece out.
Okay, So how would David experience you differently when you were being mission driven?
I don't know, you have to ask him that, I guess, David, how do.
You imagine you would experience her differently when she is being that mission driven version of herself.
Well, I would say, like, when I do have something that I'm working towards, I don't let a lot of things get in a way of me getting it, and I'm very focused on it. So I think, you know, my conversations are more focused on those things, and I don't like to have like a lot of time spent on things that aren't about that thing. So it's like every piece has to kind of be all right, this
is leading towards getting this property. So I'm making sure my you know, my money is right, my credit is right, so all the little pieces that lead towards purchasing, I'm focused on it. So I don't spend a lot of time doing frivolous stuff. So like if our mission was marriage, then I'll be like, all right, cool, so then this is what we need to do to get to that point. So let's focus on those things that need to be
in place. So I would imagine, you know that he would experience me as just being more focused and more understanding of the pieces that need to fit in the puzzle to complete the goal.
We'll be right back with more family therapy. So if the mission is marriage, he would notice those things. How would he know you were happy about it? Like, what would he notice that would tell him you were pleased that the mission was marriage.
I guess he would know I was pleased because I would be excited about working towards it.
I would be you know, how would you show that excitement?
Same way with the houses?
And how was that, David? How did you notice it?
Because I mean when she said it though, when she locked in on someone, that's that's the topic of discussion ninety percent of the time, besides the kids, Like you know what I'm saying, it's all normal life stuff. But she's gonna make sure she like she said, she got to pay down a little bit of debt. She's gonna make sure she do that. She's gonna make sure all her ducks is in order, you know, got the right people, all that, everything the checklist is being checked off box
by box. So if I feel like if there's an other like maveraging something and that was the goal, then you know, I could see her looking at certain things and you know, probably uh knowing Jalen, do you want to have a wedding or just a nice reception? How much money is gonna be spent? How much we're gonna say? What's the date? Like everything is gonna be everything? If we getting if we is to get engaged Friday by before the month over with, I'm pretty sure that we'll
probably have a date for the wedding. Okay, I'm being honest with you, right, I Benes. That's just the way she That's and it's nothing wrong with that, Like, it's not wrong with that. That's that's probably not my approach. But you know, if you with somebody that has an approach like that, then you know, maybe it could you know, rub off, But I really think that's what it'll probably it'd be like that. I could be wrong.
How would she know that you were also pleased to be on this mission working towards marriage?
I mean, because I'll be excited. I'm not gonna do something that I don't want to do. I'm not gonna do nothing that well, let me say that, because I do do stuff that I don't want to do though, because it needs to be done. But when you're talking about you know, going into marriage, like you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you know, you gotta do you gotta want it, you gotta do it.
You know what I'm saying, I'll be excited too as well, not for nothing like like that's because I'm a guy, right. I want a nice wedding. I want a nice reception. I want to look fly, like she's gonna look all pretty and beautiful and stuff like that. You know, Like, I don't want to shit back and not partake. So if I'm gonna sit there and help, like, I got to be excited to help because I want input, you know what I'm saying. I want to have some input
on it. I know most men don't have input on weddings, and you know, you see it on TV that and the men ain't really into it or whatever, But not me. I think I'd be sitting here, sitting right next to her looking through magazines or I'm I'm a computer.
Now, how different, David, do you think Jay would experience that? Because she's saying in the past that wasn't the mission, and she's saying, I don't want to be somebody's girlfriend for the next ten years. How different do you think it would be for her to know this is clearly the mission. You're looking on the internet with her like you know what I mean, Like, how different do you think Jay would experience that?
I think she'll know that I'm more serious about it. That is not talk right, I'm really going to go ahead and make this happen. So I think that'll be a big difference because she's like, you know, he really trying to make it happen. This is what you want to do, and he got a plan for it and everything. So I think I gotta get her excited because it's not It's something that's been talked about, but it was never no clear plan or action taking place to accomplish that.
So I feel like once she sees all of that and see it like with our eyes and own two eyes and everything and see what's going on, I think it'll be a it'd be a big difference. It'll probably be some sense of security or comfort or you know, like all right, okay, so this is where we're going. This is the mission. Like she said, this is the mission, and he's leading the mission, so let's rock and roll. I don't think she'll leave me hanging if she see that.
I'm serious, and it's a direction that I'm trying to go, and I wanted her to come with me, and I'm making a plan to go in that direction. I think she's gonna go in that direction right by my side. M Jay.
What difference would that make to you?
I think honestly, like, part of the challenge that I have with David is lack of planning. So that has resulted in decreased respect for him. So I feel like if he saved money and bought me a ring and created, you know, this beautiful experience and proposed to me, I would be like, oh shit, like I gotta really look at him differently now because he's he's planned this out. So my respect for him would increase, and I would I would look at him as someone that I would,
you know, be excited about that. I would be, you know, I would admire him for making those changes to get to that place where you know, like he's he's serious about the future of our relationship. I would just see him differently. He would be the man that I thought that he was. And if I can see him that way, then I can treat him that way.
Probably stupid. I don't know if this is a good question, not Jay, But would you say yes today?
No?
No, no, no, she wouldn't want to marry me to either. But would I say yes today?
No, that's not my question. That's not my question. Uh my question.
All of that planning and prepare.
Yeah, he plans, he saves for a ring, he creates an experience, and then you're like whoa as you said, like, oh, I gotta view him differently? Would you say yes to that different version of him?
If he did all of those things and did not fall flat on the other responsibility that he has, then I would absolutely say yes. But if he did all those things and then left me hanging and other areas that are also important, then I would be like, well, yeah, I mean you planned and you bought the ring, but
you ain't giving no money this month. That wouldn't work. No, no, yeah, you know, if everything stayed in position as far as you know, him taking care of the responsibilities, and he also did that on top of it, then yes, I would say yes.
Okay, so everything stays. You know, he's contributing in all the areas necessary and required. But you also notice planning this detail. You also noticed planning for this thing happening that would fit for you.
Right, Jay, Yeah, that was fit.
And David, what would it be like for you to have her view you differently and then consequent to that, treat you differently.
It'll feels way way better than what it does sometimes, you know, who doesn't want to be treated good or treated fairly or whatever the case may be. M h. And then you know, it's just like a pat on the back, like you know, because at some point in time she did view me that way and then I lost it, right, so for they gain it back and it's like, you know, it's a little kudos to myself for changing my behavior and ways, you know what I'm saying, because that's a big step. And then you know, I
like this. I like this side of the road. I don't like the other side of the road. It's not it's crowded over here. I like this side of the road. It's much better. So you know, I think, you know, I very I love that and I would enjoy that feeling and respect from Jay.
How would she know, David, that you wouldn't lose it this time like you'd work She don't know you You used the word a minute ago stability, and I know that that quality that matters. How would you let her know that you're gonna work to not lose it this time once you get it back.
It's the only way I can let her know is a shower, right, That's the only way. Yeah, there's no just I just got a shower. Right. I gotta show her certain things. You got to see me doing certain things, and you know, constantly speaking on these certain things and following up like this is where we was at. This is month one, This is where I'm at right now month two. You know, this is how it should look in month three. Right. It's a plan playing in the action.
So I think that's the only way she gonna know. Right, I could say say say it a thousand times, so she can physically see some of these things. That's the only way she gonna know.
And when you say, like you have to show her certain things, do you know what those certain things are? Yeah? Okay, okay, and Jay for you to notice, like as David says, like, I can't say it, I have to show her for you to notice this difference and see stability and see he's like when you view him in this different way, he's cherishing it. How would that have an impact on you.
It's just like if you go into business with someone and they're inconsistent and they don't you know, all the qualities of a good business partner, You're not going to create another business with them, you know what I'm saying. So it's like same thing here. If we are you know, if we decide okay, marriages what we want, and then we work towards it and everything goes well, then it's like, all right, well then what else can we do? What
else can we build? What else can we create? You know, because I'll have that trust that as my partner, he is going to do what he said he is going to do, There's no question about that. So then this guy's the limit.
What's the what's the other kind of stuff that you would build? And he said, oh, what else could we build? Like, what's the kind of thing that you'd be like, oh, I'd be interested in building this?
Well, I always say I'm going to be a millionaire, and I believe it it's going to happen.
I'm here for it, love it.
So I want to know how we can make that happen for the both of us. You know, if if that means invested in more properties or some other type of business venture. Let's figure out how we can do that. I believe that I want our children to be in the best school. That's not best as far as oh they have the best ratings, don't There's a lot of schools that have good ratings. But what is the best
place for them based on who they are? And Okay, so you know, if we can if we can do the marriage thing and make that happen, and we can get the financial stability that we desire, we can also create a lifestyle for them that is truly you know, a beautiful experience for them and where they don't have to want for anything. You know, we have a plan for their lives and we know what we want them
to achieve. Now, obviously, you know, kids are kids, and they're going to make choices on their own as they get older. But right now, at this young age, we can set the course for them. So let's figure out what that course is. Like, what do we want for them? Where do they need to be Do we need to be in New Jersey? Do we need to be in another state? We could create that, you know, we create that lifestyle for them. Do we want to live in a farm. Are you know what? Yes? Yes, can we
can they raise their livestock? Yes?
Why not?
Fuck it? Let's do it like it could be. It could be anything. You know, if we believe in each other and trust in each other and know that each person's gonna play that part and pull their own weight, you know, the options are limitless. We want to even just make sure that we go on vacations once a year, like you know what I mean, Like this is whatever we decide. If we trust each other, we can do it.
Okay, So other than the fun part, I'm really excited about what you're saying. And that's my own personal you know.
I know, but you're gonna be there. I'm not gonna let you like Elliet going out there give.
Let me tell you what Ellie is not going to do that is get dirty on your farm.
Okay, oh wow, that's unfortunate.
I'm just I'm just like, you know, here's what is not about to happen is I'm not getting dirty on your par know you say, but here's what I am going to say, Jay, everything you just said, like we are working on this, we're building this, and we're you know, going on vacations once a year and the kids are in the kind of schools that we're pleased with, and even living on a farm, regardless of Allia's personal opinions about it, How different of a relationship is that compared
to what y'all had before?
There would be a shared vision, there would be more cohesion, and it would be more unified in what we're doing. I feel like right now, like I kind of do my thing, he kind of does his thing, but we're not necessarily building together, which is kind of along for each other's right.
Would you experience that as like a big change?
Yeah? Absolutely?
And David, how pleased would you be to be living in this future that she's currently describing.
I don't think he wanted to live on a farm.
Either, But that's because David's like me, and he's sensible and reasonable.
I would compromise. It probably won't be a farm, but she'll definitely have an area so she can do a garden and she can grow her vegetables and fruit. Right, So that's definitely that. But you know, like, well, the my outlook on things, if I'm happy and I'm in a good space and you know, my mind is clear, you know, like all of them things are amazing, right, But none of that is amazing no matter what type of farm it is, no matter what type of house, what type of school, if you're not in a good
space mentally or together. Right, So if everything is clicking on all cylinders, nothing is going to be one hundred percent. But if everything is on the upside, it's looking good and things are being handled, Yeah, that all sounds amazing, absolutely all right. I want to raise my boys with Jay together in the same house and love up on her in front of my boys and stuff like that, though, But it's gonna take some time and some behavior changes within me and her.
But yes, absolutely, David, what's the very first step that you would be able to take to show her I'm on the same mission, dam Like, I don't. I don't think you can just you know, pop up tomorrow with a with a gazebo and a and an engagement ring. But how would she know David is on is on like mission marriage? How would she know that?
I don't know how woish she knows? I mean before we even get to that point. I mean, she would definitely have to see the other behavior changes and things that's going on within myself that it's affecting my change of things, that's affecting the family and her in a good way before it even happens to go to anything with marriage or ring or anything like that. I think that's the number one thing, right. I think the marriage thing, yes, can definitely happen, but it's a lot of stuff in between.
Like she just said, like, ah, yeah, cool, I'll be happy with the ring though, but then you ain't like what happened, Like you said, you ain't having this old money you want to go drop it on the ring? Like that's not a smart idea to do, right, you know what I'm saying, Like, yeah, So I think everything else gotta be going going away, it should be going I think different conversations need to be had had. You know that got to do with us and then band like all right, you know this is where it's at
the next one. I think that's how she would know. That's what needs to happen before we even get to that level. Once she starts seeing that, I think then everything else she can embrace and accept.
David, I want to one of the things I want to add to that is the first step is the mindset. Like when we started this conversation. I don't think and because of past experiences, I don't think Jay knew whether or not that marriage was something you wanted or not. What Jay definitely knew was I'm not in for ten more years a girlfriend. So I think the first step is showing her the mindset like no, no, no, I this is the the thing I desire is your hand
in marriage. I think that alone would make a difference to Jack. I don't think she knew that coming into this conversation, and that's clearly very important her. That means stability, that means growth, that means family, uh, and these are all things that matter a lot to her. And I don't think I don't think she wants mission, not marriage. I think to her that feels like a waste of time. Jay, Does that make sense?
Yeah, Yeah, does make sense, because marriage is not just like oh.
I love you, that community like you know what I mean, Like, it's it's a it's it's a joint or joining this, you know, And you know, in front of.
Us, we're saying, this is my person, and I'm going to have this person's back, and that is you know, spiritually, emotionally, financially, I got their back they got my back and we're gonna ride this thing out. Like so if we can get to that point that we both truly truly believe like this is what we want, that that's a game changer. You know. It's like I'm not just here just to be here. You know, I could be somewhere else. You could be somewhere else, You could be with somebody else.
And sometimes I wonder, like I'm being honest, like I don't know that David really wants to marry me. I don't know that he looks at me as that I am the one. So if he, you know, made all these changes, then I guess I would be convinced, and then I my guard could come down because now I'm like, oh, okay, so maybe I am the one for him, Like it's not just a convenient relationship or a relationship based on we've just been here so long, Like this is something
that he truly wants. And then I could kind of go back to those feelings that I have when we first met, like, yeah, this is what I want from him too. But you know, the guard is the guard is up so high right now, it's like it's hard for me to see it.
David. Do you hear what she's saying? Mm hmm, like she's saying, she's saying there are times I think she actually used the phrase like this is a relationship of convenience. But I want to know I'm the one. I want to know that, like he wants to marry me. That's why I'm saying it's actually not about the ring tomorrow. It's about her knowing he like I am his one and his mindset and ship.
Yes, but it's definitely not all me. It's definitely tenfold, right, So like do I do do I? I don't know if Jayleen will want to marry me? Right, I don't know that either. Okay, I'm not saying that. You know, this a whole entire relationship. It hasn't just been David David, David David David, right, So like I don't know, there's been points in time in this relationship. I don't know which way we was gonna go. There's been things that have happened in this relationship out of like I don't
question myself, right, she don't question herself. So it's a group effort. It's not that David don't want to do this. David don't want to feel like he doesn't want to be in this relationship. David, just don't feel like it's a convenient thing. That's not just all it is. It's a lot of things that played into it. Into this factor. Absolutely, I talked about it a lot in the beginning, Yes
I did. I brung it up, absolutely, and then you know, years went on, things don't happen, things were said in the relationship, and you know, I probably you know, shed away from that, stop talking about it as much. You know what I'm saying, because I was looking at things a little differently now. But we hear and it's time to address whatever it needs to be addressed. Time to you know, start working. That's the thing that we both want.
If we both want this right, then you know, it's steps that we both have to take to get to that level. Now, once we get to that point, I know as the main that I got to go a couple more steps, because that's what a man is supposed to do, right, But we both got to get to that level first before we start taking the mother steps.
Absolutely, But I think the first step is letting her know that's actually what you want.
Yeah, But I gotta look but like, how do I know that's what she wants? Well?
Number one, because she just.
I literally had to said it too, like everything that you just said over the last sixty seconds, Like Brett, Like what the fuck? I'm trying not to get upset. I really don't want to get upset. But you you're saying, Okay, you started off the relationship talking about marriage. Things happen, and that shifted your perspective. Okay, but those things happen as a result mostly because of your your in our early stages of relationship. You didn't convince me that you
were dependable. You did you like you don't want it. That brought it up. So you should have been serious from that moment, because why are you even talking about marriage if you're not serious about it. Being serious and being serious about marriage is not just talking about it saying I want to put the things in place so that I can make this woman my wife, and you chose not to do that. So like, yeah, we both got to work on it. Yeah, we both got to
work towards it. But you gotta convince me now because I was convinced in the beginning.
Okay, I want to add something which I think is what David was saying is we both have things to do. The other thing I want to add is what's cool about this conversation is, regardless of whatever happened in the past, we have two people that, if these actions are taken, want to be married. So now the task is because she believed it in the past and then things changed
for whatever reason. David, your mission now is to show her I want to marry you, and then her reciprocal step is to show you I want to be married to you. And now we're building in the right direction instead of what has been happening in the past.
Does that make sense, Yeah, that makes sense.
We get into this place where we start thinking about and talking about like how we got here. But the more important thing is once Jay believes that that's the mission, then she on board with the mission. So now David's job is to show her. No, that's the mission. Now it might be a mission that takes forty two minutes forty two days, for that's not the point. The point is you're the one I want to marry. I said it before and didn't show you. Now let me show you.
And Jay is saying I would love to reciprocate that once I see it and.
Experience it, you man don't want to marry me.
I think I think he will show you whether he does or doesn't.
That's crazy. Why do you say that like that? That's like, what type of response is that? That's not an encouraging response that man don't want to marry me.
I think I think it's a fine response. You just have to show her because what she's saying is I don't feel it in my personhood.
You know. Yeah, we know that right now though, but still it's a lot of like, Okay, we just went through all of that and then respond to that he don't want to marry me like responses that sure, sure.
Yes, evident, I'm not pulling out out the air, David.
What would you have said if I told you, man, you can't play at Ohio State?
I told you go look at the film, David. Okay, so like that's about you gotta give you something. I'll see you said I can't.
Because that was literally the perfect example. That was a perfect example.
The reason that's a perfect example is you have a an unstoppable quality to you. There's a there's a and we've talked about it like that, that that arrogance, where like anyone doubting you, including Jay, just like triggers this like, fine, I'm gonna show you. That's how I want you to respond, Like you didn't even miss a beak. If I were to say to you you can't do such and such, you just went go look at the film, you.
Know, Like.
That's that's why I want you to respond. If Jay said you can't put up that pergola, watch me do it, Like that's your mentality when you do that. I think that's the very best version of David right.
And the reason I say that's a perfect example is because if I say that, man, don't want to marry me, and you say, look at the film. The film don't the film mayn't help it. You know what I'm saying, Like, not in this situation.
I don't want him to say look at the film. What I want him to say is look at the film I'm about to put on tape, Like look at what I'm about to.
Do Roger that. But the reason I'm saying that is because if I'm saying he don't want to marry me, he's like, oh, that's a crazy response. No it's not. It's not because I am looking at the film from the past, so like that's the only thing that I can use to lead me to my current.
Response, right. And the other thing I'm gonna say, so, David, I want that to trigger that part of you because I think that's David at his very best. And the other thing I'm gonna say to you, Jay, is I also want you to acknowledge you have an impact on him more than any other person. Your encouragement and discouragement means a lot to him, and I just want you to be aware of that. I'm not sure anyone else could impact him in that way, but you can. But David, like,
that's the mission, Like, that's the purpose. Is the convincer, Oh, this dude is serious about me, And once you do that unlocks the amazing potential of this relationship. So right now, it's just about a mindset.
Yeah.
So over the next week, before we meet again, I just want you to think about that mindset, like showing her no, I am serious about walking you down that aisle one day and making one day a reality. Okay, Okay, makes.
Sense, makes sense.
I think some of the necessary components that any couple would need to have in order to have a positive and healthy relationship is number one. You do have to have a shared vision for the future and understand you are co constructing that shared vision. And number two, you have to understand that your partner's healing, happiness, in fact, their life experience, is your responsibility. I've heard so many people say like, their happiness is not my job. Yes
it is. Now. You can't make somebody happy. Your partner is not something to be fixed, but you accept the responsibility of contrubuting to that person's life. So that means I have to understand that I have to create an environment where that person can be the best version of themselves. They can heal from the things they need to heal from, they can experience love, joy, happiness, and all of those
things in order for a relationship to work. Being in a relationship is the most unselfish job you will ever have, because you have to devote yourself to that person's lived experience, almost without thinking of your own, and knowing that the other person will do the same thing. And if you can do that, then you have a happy, healthy relationship that will not be perfect because this is hard and life is long and tricky. Things happen and we know we have kids, and we move, and we have financial
stresses and all the things that we have. But if you can understand that it is my responsibility to contribute to a shared future where both people are experiencing joy, peace, love and happiness, healing and growing together, then you will have a healthy relationship going forward. As a result of this podcast, people are becoming more and more fascinated and interested in solution focused brief therapy, which is the type of therapy that I do and what you're experiencing and
listening to in the Family Therapy podcast. And people ask a lot of questions, and one question is is there any science to demonstrate that these kind of conversations impact brain chemistry or even subconscious connections in humans.
And the answer is yes.
There are several studies where we are aware that when people have conversations about a hope for future, it literally rewires their brain. It changes their very mental makeup in measurable ways. So these conversations are not just conversations for the sake of behavior change. They actually create deep rooted brain changes. And that's why the changes created in this approach are so sustainab So human beings have a tendency to create patterns and habits regardless if those patterns and
habits are good for them are healthy for them. These cycles become embedded in our personalities or even in our subconscious minds. How do we recognize these patterns in order to create change, Well, you have to be aware and measure outcomes as opposed to comfort. The reason why human beings have these patterns is because most of us seek out comfort, not seek out positive outcomes. And we have to be able to say, even though this action is comfortable to me, we have to be to ask ourselves
is it good for me? Is the outcome something I experience as desirous from doing that thing? And if the answer is no, then we have to do one of the most unnatural things for us in the human experience, and that is intentionally do something that will make you uncomfortable. Just change. And a lot of times we have habits like drinking. For example, if you were raised in a home and every Sunday your mom, dad, aunts, and uncles sat around watching football drinking beer, you will likely turn
into an adult that does that same thing. You have to ask yourself is this working for me? Is it causing the type of life and outcomes and experiences that I want to continue in my life. And if the answer is no, you have to accept I'm doing that because I was comfortable doing it. I now have to do something that makes me uncomfortable, and that has change. It's surprising how many times a relationship becomes unhealthy because
somebody over negotiated. And the way that it happens is like someone who is a city person and they were born in and grew up in, you know, Manhattan, like New York City, and they meet and fall in love with someone from rural Texas, and because they love that person so much, they decide to leave the hustle and bustle of New York City and move to a farm in Texas. And what ends up happening is, over the course of time, you start resenting your partner because you're
not living in an environment that's congruent to you. So many relationships, you over negotiate things that matter, and later on down the road there is a heavy, very expensive price to pay for that. We've got to have the ability to say I love you and I want life to work, but I'm a city person and you're a
country person. And maybe that's not meant to be. Maybe we can live some of the time in one and some of the time and the other, but in one way or another, I have to honor who I am, and I have to allow you to honor who you are.
Relationships get themselves into trouble more often than not because they over negotiate things that mattered to and in fact people do, like how many times has there been somebody that's just wildly creative, Like they're an artist or they're a musician, They're just like wildly creative, and their parents tell them things like you'll never make a living doing that, and they force them to become like an accountant or something.
Those people experience massive mental health issues and we diagnose them with anxiety or depression, But the actual truth is you're living a life incongruent to your personhood that plays itself out in relationships and it plays itself out in our individual lives as well. It's really really important to ask yourself different questions on your healing journey. So for the next few weeks, I will ask you a question at the end of each episode to hopefully inspire your
inner superhero. This week, it's really about relationships. So all of you in relationships, I want you to sit down with your partner and ask an incredibly important question that I'm betting most of you did not ask. And what I want you to ask is what do we want our lives to look like five years in the future. And I want you to answer that question from an
outcome perspective. And what I mean by that is not necessarily I want a three bedroom house by then, but I want to be experiencing happiness, joy and peace, and come up with a list of all of the things that you would like to be experiencing in your life that we would identify as outcomes. And then separately, I want each partner to make a list of twenty things that you would notice about your partner during those five
years that let you know you're moving towards that outcome. So, for example, as we start building a life where there's happiness present, I would see my partner smiling more. I would see my partner working out when my partner's really happy she works out, Or I would see my partner cookie more when my partner's in a really good rhythm of life. They do meal prepping instead of fast food
like whatever the signs would be. So come up with a consensus of what outcome we are creating, and then twenty signs that let you know that your lives are moving in that direction. What doing something like this will do. It will train your senses to notice those signs, and that is actually how you manifest things into reality by paying attention to them. Most people make the mistake they don't think about what they're trying to create and then
thus create it. They think about what they're trying to avoid, but then they never really figure out what they're creating. So if we try to build a life where we're not unhappy, it's a very different experience in trying to create a life when we are happy. To give you a better example, when I was a kid, I was really good at baseball. And one of the things that helped me go from being bad at baseball to being good at baseball is in my younger years, I was
really afraid of striking out. So before I went up to bad I would say to myself, don't trick out, don't strike out, don't trick out. I didn't become good at baseball until I realized the goal isn't to not strike out. The goal is to get a hit, So my ambitions at everyett back became get a hit, get a hit, get a hit. In relationships, we have to have the same idea. The goal isn't to just be happy or to just be not unhappy. The goal is to be happy. So we have to focus on the
pathway and co creation of happiness. And that's what this kind of question is designed to help you do. This is not just a podcast that I want you to consume and be entertained by. I actually want you to be inspired. I want you to be impacted by this, and in fact, we can't help but be impacted by the content we consume. So what I would like for you to do is come on this healing journey with us.
Come on this journey of change rediscovery with us. And the way to do that is to just pay attention to the things going on in your life as a consequence of listening to this podcast. Pay attention to things in your life shifting in a more desirable way. Pay
attention to your desirable outcome becoming your reality. Pay attention to evidence of your success, your resilience, and your strength, and let us know in the comments what you noticing in your life as a result of listening to this podcast and as a result of paying attention to these things. I would love to hear from you about your healing journey,
your family, and your feedback. Leave a review, send a DM, connect with me on socials at Elliott Speaks, and you can also send me a text message to nine seven two four two six two six four zero. Family Therapy is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect podcast Network. Special thanks to our assistant Glendale Seppe. It's produced by Jack Queis Thomas and the executive producer Dolly S. S Fisher. For more podcasts from The Black Effect, visit the iHeartRadio
app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. The content presented on the Family Therapy podcast serves solely for educational and informational purposes. It should not be considered a replacement for personalized medical or mental health guidance and does not constitute a provider antient relationship. It is advisable to consult with your healthcare provider or health team for any specific concerns or questions you may have.