The House of Houston

was like frowning, like not pitting everything together. And when I started to finally understand what he was saying, I started to realize that he wasn't that great of a preacher. It was more of a motivational speech, and he said he was going to give us a list on how to be a better person, for example, and he never finished the list. He only got to the first point.

So it was hilarious to me the fact that this man, who is like, quote unquote the big eagle within Hillsong at the time, didn't preach and wasn't charismatic in comparison to other people. So when I see him, and from that experience moving forward, I quickly knew that he was just a white man, a white heterosexual man who got lucky to have the platform. He did because of his father, obviously, but now seeing his downfall and him being removed from Hillsong and the board, it seems to me like his

luck has run out. You're listening to false prophets Hillsong the story of a mega church and its followers. I am no m Audibe and I used to be a part of Hillsong, but I left and now I'm telling my story. I suppose his luck has run out in a way. And this is journalist l Hardy getting the inside story that Hillsong didn't want to tell, but just saying his houses in Sydney, He's certainly still living a very charmed and blessed life. He's exceptionally wealthy. He has

a beautiful mansion out in the hills. He has an apartment on Bondai Beach, probably the best real estate in Australia. He's still jetting around the world, visiting friends in Europe and the United States. So I guess, you know, public humiliation sounds like a pretty horrible thing to go through, but in terms of his general circumstances, he's still got a lot of luck on his side. I've recently returned to my hometown of Sydney to take a closer look

at the Houston lifestyle. We're on our way to Brian and Bobby Houston's house. It's in the upmarket suburb of glen Haven, about fifteen minutes from Hillsong's headquarters. It's a very nice, manicured suburb, but it's quiet. It's there's almost an eeriness out here. There's no kids riding there by, acts around. Feels a bit walled off and maybe that's

why the Houston's like it. It's only a few miles from the school hall where Hillsong was started by Brian and Bobby in the nineteen eighties with just a few followers, but it's a world away from this lifestyle and wealth. It's yeah, a little leafy, could sac there's some sort of bushland it's looking over, but they're quite nice. Say they're big houses. They're modern houses there. I think the word is McMansions, but I'm not sure if that's too disparaging.

You know, some of the houses have letters spelt out instead of the numbers. Brian's come a long way. He was born in New Zealand and both his parents were in the Salvation Army. His father Frank was a preacher too. Lots of beautiful trees, but it's it certainly as a well healed area and a private area, to the point where I wonder, if you know, we do another lap or two, that someone might come out and take down

our number plate. But one of their children, that their younger stood, Laura, lives nearby here, so we're going to go check out her place quickly as well. Laura, her husband Peter, and her brothers Benjamin and Joel are all part of the Hillsong Empire. It's a family affair. So we're coming up to Ryan and Bobby Houston's house. Your destination is on the left. I think it's just one of here. She said, it's a huge gate. Does that look like a huge gate to you? This looks like

a pretty big gate, huge brick settin better spikes. Wow, it does look pretty grand house fit for a pre checking and you can enjoy the lifestyle too, because the house is now for sale. This is what the sales pitch says. No expense has been bad and the sensational property designed for a spectacular entertainer's lifestyle. For about three million US dollars. All this can be yours, including walk in wardrobes, a pool, and a hot top. We're out the front of Brian and Bobby's house. Oh fuck, is

a coupling up than well? Some of the Houstons are checking out me and my producer Sharon. But it's okay. We're on public property, just hanging there. Are they going checking out? Should check us out? Hey there we're diad a camera. We're just recording some audio. Yeah, for a podcast. Okay, we're having a chat to you guys. We'll have an advo chat to you guys if you want to pardon. She's are the best. That's Laura Peter. Yeah, he's still

on the board. Fuck, I reckon. I wonder if one of the neighbors said something or how did they know when were here? They saw it walking, but they might have a camera. Sorry, my heart's going every miles an hour and now yeah, no, no no, no, it's just you know which Yeah, Um, do you see the look? I don't know if you saw the look on Laura's face, but she did. She looked filthy, did she? Yeah? She was not happy. We just had a bit of a

confrontation with one of their children. They reverse the car out. It was Laura and Peter. Laura's their their youngest stare down and they had their kids in the car, and they reversed up and they asked us what we were doing here and why we had cameras and if we were a recording. Yeah, we just just said that we would love to speak to them. That they didn't seem interested and drove off. So, yeah, that was a bit of an interesting experience when you've been writing about people.

I'd love for them to speak with me, but I don't think that they ever will because there's a Norwestern business work. Okay, time to head off to hills On Church and there are a few to choose from in Sydney. We're going to an inner city one in the Waterloo area.

Write out the Century Circuit. I had a piece of newspaper this morning with some leaked emails from the Houston family when all of the problems are going down with Brian being forced to resign back in March twenty two, and it's so interesting how much of this stuff is circulating in the church, and sources of mine inside and formerly of the church. We're already messaging me at nine

o'clock this morning. It's really interesting to see just how much this stuff spreads like wildfire, that there are a lot of people that just really want the Houstons to be brought back to earth. The story was about leaked emails from two of the Houston children, Benjamin and Laura. They sent the board emails on March twenty and they're very emotional and it really I think what they really show, which is most interesting to me, is that the Houstons

consider the church their church. It's the family firm. They think that they built it from the ground up. Whereas if you speak to a lot of current and former Hills members, they say, no, no, no no, this is our church. It's a community asset. We built this with our labor,

with our people, with our love, with our commitment. And that's really at the heart of the power struggle at the moment in the church is people saying that the Houstons need to recognize that, you know, they were obviously a huge part of its success and its growth, but it's time for them to go. And I don't think that any of the children certainly are seen as natural leaders or heirs to the church. And Brian did not have a succession plan in place. He thought he had

another good ten years or so. He's sixty seven now, he's a very fit guy and he does not want to give up control. So I certainly think that we're going to be seeing this playing out for a long time to come. This is a time of real jeopardy for Hillsong. Sure it's face scandals before, but this time it's brought down the top guy, Brian Houston, has been

forced out after an investigation into inappropriate behavior towards two women. Now, for many people in Australia, Brian Houston was Hillsong and while the Houston's plan their next move, the Hillsong board installs an interim leader and argues about how to protect the church and followers. Let's find out how they're feeling. Right,

then your destination will be on the least. Were at Hillsong Waterloo, which is the city campus, and it's Sunday morning and a lot of young, happy people are walking out of the church. So we thought we'd got to a few of them and have a word. I we're just making a podcast about the church and we'd sort of want to tell both sides. So we're just wondering a few guys ago, no oay to be honest, that's the kind of response I think we're going to get. You just don't get many people who still go to

Hillsong talking about it. There's certainly a perception there's been fed to them for many years that the media is always telling the wrong story and he has always been against the church and the Houstons, and that the media only cares about the money. We're just wondering us about the church, and we're trying to tell both sides. So we just want to know what you love about your church everything? Sorry, but what's everything community? I attribute everything

good in my life to this church. I've been born in the church. I've been there since I was a little kid, and I love it. It's well all my friends are some of my families. I love worship, I love the community. I love going to dinner Sunday night with church. I love being able to lead kids on their journey on Fridays as a youth leader. It's one of the most fulfilling things in the Taiwer. You come here and you might be broken, you might not feel like you have a place in this crazy world. You

come here and everyone's really welcoming. They welcome you with open arms. They don't judge you for you know, what you've done. Do you feel that her son gets a bit of a rough ride in the media. Church is not a place of perfect people at all, Like, I don't think anyone's claiming that or you know, and they think like we're just imperfect people. Yeah. I think the

main thing is that other community is fantastic. Everyone's you know, loves on each other and obviously Christians, and so we find it's a really good place to worship, full of authenticity and genuine people. A people use the word community a lot, and I'm really interested in that concept of what that means in relation to the church. Well, I think, well,

this is a good example. This is Keith. We met him at church and we see each other every week and we basically hang out not just that church for us, at a church as well. So we're talking about community, we're talking about that sense of family. So yeah, that's gonna say. It does really feel like family because we have so many new people coming here all the time, and we'll welcome a lot of new people and it's just an ever growing community and family. It's something that's

really different. It's just grow so much so and we'll welcome everyone from the new bonds to like people who are in their eighties or hundreds or whatever. So yeah, we're really happy to have everyone here. Just become part of this awesome family. Hilson has been given a bit of a rough trott media lately. How do you guys feel about that. It's not really lately, It's been for

as long as I've known living in Sydney. I think the way that we navigates we have a personal experience of hell Song and we don't It's not like based on what people have said or what we've read. It's actually our own personal experience and nothing can really trump that. The media. Yeah, yeah, it's sometimes one person's perspective. And we have experienced the leadership here. We know personally some of the leaders and the pastors and we've been mentored

by them and we absolutely adore them. And a lot of it comes down to our faith and our personal walk with God, and that's the lens that we use to view things like scrutiny and stuff. In the church. Everything's being shaken, but this is I think a small part of what's in the long term. So we believe that we're just gonna continue to grow, continue to do what we need to do. I really enjoyed speaking to Keith and his friends just now because for me, they're

really typical Hillsong is. They're aware of the issues that they're not necessarily shying away from them, but they're able to square it by saying that humans are imperfect, that we're all sinners before God, that God is the only one that's perfect. Ultimately, what we seem to keep coming back to why people are saying in the church is they just like the sense of community. You'll still find a lot of people now saying, well, it's our church, it's not the Houston's Church. A lot of people Brian

is a figure that's on the TV. Sometimes their connection is much more deep and real within the church. The notable thing from when I went inside is how much the attendances have dropped from when I was there in January. Still very much the same crowd representative of the local area, lots of young people, but attendances would be down at least half or two thirds on the amount of people

that I saw in January. Pretty significant. It's difficult to say for sure, but considering I've been told that attendances are down at a lot of the places. I think it's pretty safe to assume that attendances are down here, and the reason is the scandal, the embarrassment. Maybe some people are just finding new churches. Hillsong has a lot of imitators and sometimes it's just easier to go to

a different church. Just to give you a sense of the term oil that went on behind the scenes, there were real divisions about whether Brian Houston should be forced out of the church he found it. He has loyal supporters as well as critics. I've seen a letter that Hillsong's hate of people and development. John Mays wrote to the board just before Brian was sacked. He described Brian as a man who saw himself as beyond disciplinary boundaries

and normal societal expectations. He dismissed an investigation into Brian's behavior as dribble. Finally, he calls on the board to consider removing Brian permanently from his position in Hillsong along with his wife. Within days that happens, No wonder. Security guards outside the church are feeling nervous about journalists. Hey, hey, how are you going to get them on the team. Yeah, I heard that you're doing there some sort of reporting.

They're just doing box pops style. That's just as people that's what they think she's doing. She's doing a voice her and then we ask people what they've seen. So yeah, there's no filming. No, no, they're just audio. Yeah, just audio. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

thank you. Isaac from the venue team came out. They have a lot of volunteers in different positions, and they certainly have a production and venue teams and there he certainly looks like the head of security and the security gardment and told him that I had to look around. They clearly don't want us in there. And you know, we're outside in public property, so that's fine. And they just said that we can't take photos inside because they

are children around. But yeah, they're clearly not chilled by us being here. A lot of Hillsong insiders won't talk publicly, but one is so angry about the investigation into Brian that she decided to speak out. Details of his behavior are pretty sketchy. The most recent incident centers on forty minutes Brian spent in a woman's hotel room. He says he can't remember what happened, but he does say that

he'd been taking pills and booze. My contact feels fobbed off by the church, but talking publicly would cause a rift in the community and in her family, so her words are spoken by an actor. It kind of brought a whole level of shock into learning who these people really are. And maybe this is the tip of the iceberg of what we've been fed for copious amounts of years. So when all this other stuff came out, it was like, ah, okay, it all brings it back to what's this narcissist behavior

the whole time? And I look back, I'm like, literally in horror. It was great at the beginning, but when did it turn from being about people to about you and your needs being met and your fame and your celebrity status. And I think what it's turned into is, Yeah, it's disgusting, disgusting. I don't think they will come back to Hillsong Church as it is. I think they will relaunch their careers somehow. If they ever come back, I'm leaving because then it's all a joke. Monday Beach is

the iconic picture of Sydney. It's sunshine, beautiful people, everyone's in in the ocean, surfing, going for a run with their dog along the promenades, people doing yoga and meditating, sitting outdoors at the cafes. It's a real place to see and be seeing and it's the lifestyle capital of Sydney. And needless to say, property here is pretty expensive. I've come to Bondai because it's the second home of Brian and Bobby Houston, and it's kind of emblematic of everything

that's gone wrong with the church. Their apartment is in a prime real estate position, right on the south end of the beach. They'd probably be able to throw from their curtains and watch the beach each morning. The property's worth around two million US and for a second home, that's quite a lot of money. And it's really a long way from what the church started out as and from what people who have given so much to the

church over the years feel. They felt that they're building a community, that they're building a place to do good in the world. They are absolute mega celebrities within the Christian pastor circle, particularly in the US, because they change the business model. They made it okay to be this brand, and so many preachers and churches around the world wanted

to to emulate that. A number of them brought into the Hillsong umbrella where they give you a five percent of all their profits to the overarching Hillsong Church to get the branding, to get the training to be more like Brian and Bobby. So even in parts of Africa and South America, whether a Hillsong branches now, they're throwing huge numbers of congregants because people feel as though they're part of something bigger. It's not just the small local church.

They felt as though they were part of a big global brand. And Brian and Bobby have always been the happy, friendly, good looking, suave faces of US. Dramatic allegations have been leveled tonight against Hillsong. The mega church is accused of breaking Australian law by sending millions of dollars overseas and then august rating an elaborate cover up. On August the twelfth, a statement of claim was filed in the courts in Australia with an employee of Hillsong's finance department. And this

is just dynamite. The one thing that anyone that's looked into Hillsong over the last ten twenty years has been trying to find out is how much money is there and where's it going? And this is the closest that we've gotten yet to looking at Hillsong's books. The employee made a number of complaints about the way that they were handling transferring money between different Hillsong entities and different Hillsong countries, and this employee is said to have downloaded

some forty thousand documents. Court documents claim church leaders used tax free money for large cash gifts to Hillsong's founder and his family. So some of the other interesting things that have come out of it, firstly the sums of money that are being moved around, and this is charity

money that people have given over in good faith. What's really interesting to me as a journalist is knowing the lawyer that's taken on her case is a very high profile lawyer that's affiliated with the labor movement in Australia so often takes on high profile cases to embarrass big corporations and to set precedents, and so him taking on this case really makes me think that they want to flush these documents out of Hillsong, and that's obviously really

exciting for someone like me. I'm Josh Bornstein. I'm the head of employment law at Maurice Blackburn. I've represented many whistleblowers across public and private sector over many years. Josh Bornsteen is representing Natalie Moses. She's the Hillsong whistleblower. It's important to remember the court is being asked to decide an employment or a fair work case. The court is

not being asked to investigate Hillsong's finances. It has to decide whether Natalie Moses was treated unfairly by her employer, Hillsong. The cases about concerns Natalie Moses had about Hillsong and its finances, and whether her employment was terminated because she raised those concerns or for some other reason. It's the first time I've represented a whistleblower in a religious institution.

I've tended to represent them either in big private sector companies or sometimes government bodies, but this is the first time I'm in a religious setting that whistleblowers come to see me. Natalie Moses, like many whistleblowers, is someone with a very strong sense of ethics, strong laural code, who is herself quite religious, and who has worked in governance and financial management roles, if I can put it that way, in Hillsong for some years, like many other whistleblower cases,

these cases have a very similar trajectory. She has been raising concerns with progressive intensity or incrementally increasing the way in which she has raised concerns about financial matters, in particular governance compliance with corporations law, tax law, charity's law within a very complex financial empire that Hillsong is, and the matters continue to escalate to the point of having open disagreement with very senior executives within Hillsong, and then,

in another familiar twist, suddenly her access to information was cut off and she was under a disciplinary investigation allegedly because of accessing documents, and was fearful that she was about to be sacked, and that's when she contacted me. Whether the Hillsong documents are made public depends on whether the case ever comes to court, and many cases like this are settled out of court. So Natalie Moses's claims have not been tested and Hillsong disputes them. He's Josh

Bondstein again talking about Miss moses concerns. This is a very complicated financial empire with multiple entities across the world, some with charitable status, which received tax deductible donations and are required to comply with relevant legislative standards in Australia. So there are concerns that companies within the Hillsong Empire are not complying with corporations law, particularly about requirements that the law imposes when you transfer money from Australia overseas.

There are concerns that Hillsong is encouraging followers to donate to them on the basis that their donations will be for tax deductible purposes, but then using that money in a manner that's not properly tax deductible. There are concerns that the I think eighteen entities within the Hillsong Empire that have charitable status are not complying with legislative requirements

for charities in Australia. There's very serious concerns that the Charities Regulator, which has commenced and inquiry into some of the Hillsong entities, is not being provided with accurate information in response to its questions, which is a pretty serious matter. There's concerns that the tax laws not being complied with.

There's concerns about excessive gifts, remuneration, unusual arrangements, about designating musicians as pastors of the church, paying them significant salaries which is at least in part text deductible at the same time as they are receiving sometimes up to millions of dollars in royalties. There's just an enormous range of complex issues that Natalie Moses has raised in this proceeding. Hillsong is robustly defending the case. We invited the church to take part in this series and it did not

take up the offer. Hillsong filed its defense on the fourteenth of October twenty twenty two and denies many of moses allegations. In its defense, the church denies Natalie moses central claim that she was unfairly suspended. Hillsong says she breached its I policy and acted outside the scope of her role, including by downloading forty thousand documents over a weekend, many of them confidential, and then deleting her scent and leated items when called into a meeting with the HR

staff member. And on the accusations about its finances, Hillsong denies it deceived the Australian Charities Regulator and It denies that miss Moses was ever asked to help lie to the regulator. Hillsong says Miss Moses was reassured that if any issues were identified as part of the regulators investigation,

then Hillsong would move to correct the issue proactively. Hillsong also denies claims tax free money was used for cash gifts to Brian Houston and his family, or that it represented to followers that certain donations were tax seductible and then use that money for activities that were not tax seductible. The church says an independent audit found that the Hillsong Foundation Trust has not breached its own trust seed or

charity legislation. Hillsong also denies that it has not provided accurate information to the charity regulator, or that it breached tax law by paying musicians as if they were passes and therefore of boyd at tax liability, and on the accusations that the church breached rules with payments made to overseas entities. In its defense, Hillsong says that it's international operations did not contravene the external conduct standards which govern

Howard registered charity has to manage its activities outside of Australia. So, just to recap, the bombshell went off in August, only five months after Brian Houston's exit in disgrace. So Hillsong is still reeling when my contact inside the church gets in touch again as the Natalie Moses story breaks. When I saw the article, I guess my heart has gone straight out to Miss Moses. I feel that she is what we in the church used to say, brave women run in my family. Well, I'll tell you what I

think that is a definition of a brave woman. She's probably lost her job, she's probably been excluded. It doesn't read to me like she was trying to undermine her boss and do things against the flow. I feel like she was trying to protect the church and she came across as being from a place of we need to be doing the absolute by the book. And while the new leadership of Hillsong is dealing with the Moses case, there are still divisions over the way that Brian Houston

left the church. My contact is critical of the Houston leadership, but other people are still loyal to Brian and Bobby. I'm still not attending church in person. I'll watch online. I've got friends who are in the same camp as me, a lot of friends. And then I've got people who I'm observing who are the sheep following the Houstons who

are actually thought better off. So there's this weird dynamic of people who are wanting to align with the Houstons and not seeing that they were the very biggest problem we had. I think there's a huge camp of we see exactly what's going on, and we don't know what to do with this shit, which is kind of where I'm at. And then I think there are these sheeples who, oh my god, Brian and Bobby, we love you forever.

When it first came out, it was like a real massive shock, traumatic shock to the system because you believed in these people, You supported these people, poured megabucks into the church personally, to find out it's all a fass. Really, it's all a fass. It's basically a fass. It feels like it's been a generating money system for the Houston family. Was any of this really about the church? Because I'm finding that hard to join those dots. It feels like

it's all about them. So, yeah, where's the humility and the grace in this there's none which tells me that all along. Maybe they started off thirty nine years ago with the right intentions, but somewhere along the line it became about them, their power, their reputation, and yeah, I find that conflicting, very conflicting. The man dealing with the fallout is past the fil Duel, Hillsong's interim leader. He's a very different character from the big Eagle Brian Houston.

He's more low key and he doesn't have Brian Houston's political connections. So there we go. Thank you, Yes, thank you. So we're heading up to a sausage sizzle, which is known as democracy sausage. So polling places in Australia are almost always schools and traditionally they're allowed to hosts of fundraiser for their school at the same time. So for a dollar or two you get a sausage on a barbecue in a bit of bread. This is federal election

day in Australia. Hillsong under Brian Houston had friends in very high places. Prime Minister Scott Morrison name checked him when he was first elected and remained a supporter for many years. Scott Morrison didn't attend Hillsong Church but he was a good friend of Brian's. In fact, he helped him get a photo up at the White House with

President Trump. It's a very Australian tradition that everyone loves doing on the day and it's um yeah, it's part of the reason voting is compulsory here, so you've got to come along and wait in line for five or ten minutes. So it's a perk of the obligation. I suppose, okay, here you go, and as it turns out, there's a spare half, so if you give it back to me, pop that. I don't know how we ended up with spirit. Scott Morrison lost this election and the new government has

announced inquiries into a number of projects with links to Hillsinger. Today, yet I'm a I'm a vegetarian, so it's not really my thing. But the most serious test yet for Brian Houston personally is coming. It links back to his past and to his late father, Frank Houston. Do you wish to take the oath or the affirmation? Could you raise the Bible in your right hand please and repeat after me.

I swear by Almighty God. I swear by Almighty God that the evidence I shall give the evidence I shall give in this Royal Commission, In this Royal Commission shall be the truth. Shall be the truth, the whole truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and nothing but the truth. This is Brian Houston giving evidence to a public inquiry known as a Royal Commission hearing in

two thousand and fourteen. It's looking into allegations of child abuse and you've prepared a statement for the Royal Commission, dated the twenty eighth of September twenty fourteen. Yes, are there any changes you wish to make that state? Do you say it truly could correct for us of your knowledge? Yes, I tender the statement eighteen zero zero nine. The hearing her that allegations emerged in nineteen ninety nine that Frank

Houston sexually abused a child in the nineteen seventies. Brian Houston was the National President of the Assemblies of God in Australia at the time, a powerful organization that oversaw many churches in Australia, including Hillsong. Brian Houston confronted his father, who confessed to the abuse. So my father retired in May nineteen ninety nine from senior pastor role at the time, it seemed very rushed that he suddenly asked me if

I would take on the church. And now with hindsight, I think we know some of the reasons why that is. After hearing Brian Houston's evidence, the commissioners decided that he and the National Executive of Assemblies of God did not refer the allegations against Frank Houston to police. They decided that Brian had a conflict of interests. He has always argued that the victim did not want the abuse reported to police. After a two year investigation, in twenty twenty one,

police charged Brian Houston with concealing child abuse. Brian Houston has always vehemently denied the charges. It all seems a long way from the church that Naomi became a part of in Boston, and these shadows from the past sometimes seem remote to Hillsong followers in Australia today. But what we have to remember is this case is part of a much bigger picture. It's part of a massive undertaking in Australia to examine abuses of the past and try

to bring some sort of justice. It's so interesting to hear your first impressions of Brian because coming from Australia, it was always Brian Houston's Hillsong, So it's interesting to hear that in America it wasn't so much to do with the Houston family. I'm really interested. I guess that. You know, did you sort of look into Hillsong at all before you joined or was it just getting caught up in the way that it made you feel once you were in that room and finding a new home

as they call it. No, I did not look into it beforehand, because yes, I did get caught up in the feel and the look of it. I knew that Hillsong had come from Australia, but that was pretty much it. I didn't really care too much to look deeper. When I first heard of Brian and heard him speak at Hillsong Phoenix in the recording, it kind of seemed weird to me, but I felt like, Okay, well, if I attend a local church, I won't hear from him much. And here and there, probably once a year we would

get a recording of Brian speaking. And to be completely even more honest and upfront, I really didn't sit in to listen to the messages because it was always focused on the local church and on the East Coast. Yeah, that's something I hear all the time. It was so much about those interpersonal relationships, and I always wonder how it felt just wheeling a TV screen out. That's so impersonal.

But I guess I'm wondering, how did you feel when you started finding out all the stuff about Brian and his father, that the guy who's the head of the church had all of this stuff in his background. I had heard about it briefly, and a lot of people within the church and leaders and pastors kept saying like they would be frustrating, like again, they're bringing this up again, Like I thought he had already addressed this. So when I saw that, for me, it was like, Okay, this

is interesting. I'm not sure what's happening. I started looking into it a little bit more, and to be completely honest, I don't find that surprising because I grew up in church. My dad was a pastor, my uncles are pastors, close family friends or pastors, and we saw a lot of things. I unfortunately saw a lot of sexual misconduct and sexual assault and pedophilia and never saw it come to a legal matter. Because the church is really good at hiding it.

Now that I've been in therapy and now that I've been learning more and as you know better, you do better. I've been reaching out to some people and asking them how are actually doing and if they want to come forward, and that they have my full support, Like I want to be on the better side now of being able to share those because when I heard about them, I was a kid. I couldn't see anything and I didn't have any authority. But now as an adult, I want

to be part of that change. Since my trip to Sydney, I've discovered that Brian and Bobby Houston's Bondie property has been sold. Brian Houston has been preaching in the United States and Australia, and he's contradicted a lot of the Hillsong narrative around his departure. He says I didn't resign because of mistakes I'd made, but because Hillsong made my position untenable, and he says details of his mistakes were made public so people's imaginations ran wild, but his perspective

wasn't reflected by the church. Brian Houston also denies that he's an alcoholic or that he has a problem with prescription drugs, and in the end he comes out fighting, saying I'm flawed, I've been humbled, but I'm not living in disgrace and my head is held high. In the next episode of False Prophets, it's time to share more of my personal story. It's all about what I wish I would have known about Hillsong and sexuality before I

got in so deep. I thought I'd found a place that was welcoming and affirming, but that was far from the truth, and it cost me so much harm. And I'm not the only one. A story from Hillsong's past is still causing pain today.