Welcome to the Faith Based Business podcast with your host, Pastor Bob Thibodeau. On this podcast, we interview fellow entrepreneurs who are willing to share their stories, their trials, and their triumphs in business, all in an effort to help you avoid the same obstacles and to achieve success faster. But at all times, continue to rely on our faith to see us through to victory. Now with today's guest, here is your host, Pastor Bob Thibodeau. Hello, everyone, everywhere.
Pastor Robert Thibodeau here. Welcome to the Faith Based Business podcast. We are so blessed that you are joining us today. You know, in 2020, 2021, in the midst of the cancel culture boom, many companies decided to wave the white flag of surrender and forsake the values, the biblical morality, and just accept the policies and mandates being forced upon them. And we had just began the process of coming out of COVID We were trying to get the economy back.
Many people just wanted to get back to work. Then we have this wave of idiocy that says if you believe in godly principles, you're wrong. If you believe in traditional values, you're wrong. If you believe in anything except what we say, you're wrong. And that type of attitude still exists today. Although they have had to more or less calm down their rhetoric, the same corrupt mentality is still prevalent in many organizations as they push their woke agenda as far as they can.
Wouldn't it be nice just to work for an organization that you know going in that you know, when you apply, you know, this company stands for what I believe in. Wouldn't that be a good place to start when looking for a company to make a career change in your Life back in 2021? Andrew, I'm gonna try this my best. Yeah, sure. Yes, crappy shots. Yes, crappy chats. Okay. He thought so that that'd be a good idea too. But how to find companies like that? That was the problem.
But it's not a problem anymore. Andrew founded Red Balloon, which has quickly become America's largest, largest connector between employers and employees looking to prioritize positive workplace culture that's free from the divisiveness and the cancel culture mandates. Amen. Andrew's a frequent presenter at technology and business conferences, and he's been featured on Fox News, Fox Business, Newsweek, the New York Times, and a lot of others. Help me. Welcome to the program.
Andrew Crap out again. Andrew, welcome. Yeah, Andrew is great. That'll do just fine. I will tell you that that many a host has had to struggle with that last name. In fact, my kids all play sports and so poor announcers who get up and like. And Bennett, what is that? So anyway, it's crap you shuts. There's no way around it. It's a French name. When you're in Paris they say Capuc and it sounds really cool. But here in America it's just crap you shats no way around it.
And thank you for having me, Robert. I'm very grateful to be on the show. I'm. I'm using last name like Thibodeau. Mine gets butchered all the time as well. I'm sure. I'm sure. Amen. Oh man, it is so good to talk to you. When, when we first connected, I was like, oh, this is going to be a really interesting interview. I know it is. And the first question I always start with is this. Other than that brief information I just shared, can you tell us in your own words who is Andrew Prepucettes?
There it is. Nailed it. Yeah. Thank and again, thank you. I'm very grateful to be here. So I grew up in California. I was kind of a dot com guy very early on. Never ended up going to college because when you can program as a 16 year old in the Bay Area in the late 90s, you could kind of write your own script on what you want to accomplish. And so I was blessed to be able to work for some amazing companies. By the time I was 19, I was traveling for work all over the world.
By the time I was 22, that was about, you know, around 20 the year 2000 and the dot com boom was busting and the business that I was working for had gone through $32 million of VC money and it was just about gone. And so I thought this is a good moment to kind of get a change of scenery. I had worked 20, you know, 80 to 100 hours a week for many years. I was now 22 years old and I really just needed to have a little bit of a life. Grew up as a Christian.
We had a great church that we were plugged into in California, but also I was getting sermon tapes from a pastor up in Idaho. And so I thought, you know, when you're 22, you can go move somewhere else and if you don't like it, you can move somewhere else again. So I thought, I'm going to go move to Idaho. I'm going to see what it's like, go plug into this church and see if I like it. And I did and really enjoyed the adventure up here.
About that time the business went under that I was part of down in California. And I kind of looked around Idaho and said, you know, there's not a lot of good jobs in our little community here. It's a college town, Moscow, Idaho. And great people, great church community, great academic community, not a great business community. And so I thought, well, God has given me skills and abilities, I should use those to bless people as much as I can.
So I went on kind of this rampage of starting businesses. I started a variety of businesses every from everything from a 3D printing business to technology businesses and had six successful exits over the years. So I was able to build these things up, sell them everything from $100,000 exit to a half a billion dollar exit. So just really was blessed by God to do all this. And as it was building these businesses, I was trying to be distinctly Christian in the way that I ran them.
I think that we have lost of the art of being a Christian CEO. And that doesn't mean you have to be awkward or weird or hand out tracks at all the meetings. It just means you need to absolutely live your faith out in the way that you run your business and the way that you interact with your employees, your shareholders, with your customers.
And so I was really striving to do that, thinking through it a lot, got advice from various pastors and business leaders that I'd worked in with over the years and really use this as a chance to see how I can bless people. And so one of the businesses that I, that I built at during that time was a labor market data company. And I know that sounds really boring. Who in their right mind would buy labor market data? But you think about, think about the biggest decisions in your life.
Who you're going to marry, buying a house, well, going to college and what career you're going to pursue is one of the largest decisions in your life. And there's very little decision ready information for that. You can go on your, on your phone and bring up an app on where you're going to go on vacation or whether you can afford a house or dating or whatever.
But when it comes to what skills should I add to my skill portfolio as a talented Christian man or woman that is going to have the highest earnings impact and the highest joy impact. For me as an individual, there really wasn't good information on that. So I thought if I can build labor market data at scale, then people can make better decisions on where they should go to college, what programs they should take, and whether they should change careers, ask for raises, all those things.
So we built this to about a $50 million business. We had an office in the UK, had employees all over the country. Just loved my job. It really was a great joy. I'd sold the business a number of times, so I had very little ownership left. And it's fun to sell businesses because you get big checks. It's not fun because you lose control. And so my board in 2020 came to me and said, look, you are a little too conservative and Christian for our liking.
And so if you can dial down who you are, not pray at the Christmas party, not live your faith out loud, then you're welcome to keep your job. But if you're not willing to do that, then this is just not the right organization for you. Now, for context, our company was growing 25% a year, 40% margin. Like, we really were extremely successful. So I was being removed not for performance, but for perception.
And when they kind of brought that to me, I thought, well, I think a lot of Christians over the years have been given this opportunity to deny Christ and then you can have some great thing. And I'm like, and I know the right answer. So I found myself delightfully unemployed after about a six month battle with my board in early 2021. And I was going to spend some time. I've got a housing development I'm working on, I've got five kids. I'm on the board of a number of nonprofits and companies.
I thought, you know, I'm just going to take my time. I've got plenty to say grace over. I don't need to start another business or even take another job because I was offered a number of jobs as someone who'd run businesses before, and a friend kind of challenged me. They're like, so you may be burying your talents in the ground right now because there's going to be a lot of Americans who are be going to be given a choice between their job and their values.
And many of them don't have the financial wherewithal to kind of shrug off losing their job. And for a conservative or a Christian, if we get canceled off Facebook, it's like, well, it is what it is. Not too stressed about it unless you're making a living doing that. But if you get canceled from your ability to feed your kids and pay your mortgage, you're going to at least be tempted to compromise on something you hold dearly.
And so I wanted to take this opportunity to use my skills to bless other people as I could. And that's where red balloon dot work came from. So there's a long answer to A short question, but that's my story and I'm sticking with it. Amen. Amen. Well, why something like red Blue? What were, what were you seeing that motivated that? Well, it's back to, you know, this labor market data concept that I was working on. Like people, work is a good thing. Work is an opportunity to bless others.
And your job is an important and defining feature of your life. And so I've always been kind of obsessed with prosperity and work and jobs for other people. And I thought, man, there are so many good companies out there that really would love to get a good culture fit within their four walls, but don't know where to find them. Right. If you post a job ON Indeed or ZipRecruiter, you just don't know what you're going to get.
And as I started doing research, I found that 75% of businesses in America over the last five years have had a labor based lawsuit. So hiring used to be really fun, right? I love hiring because you're giving someone an opportunity to do something great. You're bringing talent into your business that's going to have a huge impact, both positive and potentially negative into your business.
But you're, you're having an opportunity to work with someone that's going to revolutionize your business potentially. So it was exciting to hire. Loved giving people opportunities, love the opportunity to work with people. Well, hiring went from being fun to being terrifying over the last, I'd say 10 years in America. And so I see these businesses that are just struggling to get good talent.
And a lot of research out there shows that if you hire the wrong person, if you have a bad hire in your company, you have a very good chance of having expenses that are in excess of that person's annual salary because you have to deal with legal consequences you have to deal with. And I'll tell you stories that I've heard from these employers. $15 an hour, employees who were, who weren't a great employee, they said, we need to let you go.
And the person's like, well, I'm going to sue you unless you give me a 50, $50,000 severance. And the business often just settles or loses that, right? So it's very expensive to get a bad hire within your four walls. And for individuals, when you go to work and you're having a leftist worldview push down your throat every single day, it's going to have a huge impact on you. And so I thought, man, I know these people are out there, they just need to be able to find each Other.
And so that's why Red Balloon, because we thought if we can just pull these two groups of people together, then both of them are going to have better lives. And that's how we're going to have a more prosperous America and more joyful workers. So we should do that, man. Amen. Amen. And I like, because you put right up front on your website, you know, it says what we believe.
And the very first statement is America was founded on the core principles of individual freedom and the personal responsibility necessary to maintain that freedom. I mean, hey, man, praise God. Share with us the core values of Red Balloon. Yeah, so at Red Balloon, we believe that work is a good thing and that people should have the freedom to live their values out loud and actually innovate.
When you have a, I'll just say a woke work environment where you are having to kowtow to the latest political correctness, then you're not going to have an opportunity to do your best work. You're not going to innovate because you're going to be worried that you're going to be offending someone all the time. Innovation often comes. Every good idea, they say in business, comes from nine bad ideas.
So it's usually the 10th good idea, you know, the 10th idea that, like, oh, wait a minute, that might have some merit. And. But if you are in a work environment where you're not allowed to throw out bad ideas because it might offend someone or. And I have stories from this, right, you have Silicon Valley bank that went out of business and they were putting everyone through microaggression training all the time and DEI training and ESG training.
And then lo and behold, the bank goes out of business. And I talked to someone who was there and they said, well, the problem is we knew that it was a credit risk where the bank was sitting, but if we brought that up to the credit department, it would be seen as a microaggression. And therefore, we were unwilling to be able to have that frank conversation. And so.
So for Red Balloon, our core values are we want to bring job seekers and businesses together that believe in merit, they believe in freedom, and they believe that those are the ways that we're going to succeed and prosper in this country. So it's really straightforward and simple.
And it's amazing to me how many, you know, we've had a lot of job seekers bounce off and be like, yeah, I don't want to be any part of that because, you know, I want to be entitled or I want to be able to Be in a position where I can bring a lawsuit, and that's okay. You know, it's free country. Go do what you want. But we want to bring the best workers to our employers. And so that's kind of been our core value or kind of driving principle at the.
At the end of the day, Robert, we want to redeem the world of work, and we believe that work is something that should be redeemed. And if Red Balloon can redeem the world of work, that would be amazing. The way we're doing that, we have three things we talk about all the time. We want to bless our customers. First, we want our customers to be better able to do their job whether they buy anything from us or not. And so that's what it means to bless our customers.
Next, we want to bless our employees. We want them to be better people because they work at Red Balloon, better able to do their job for their next employer, better able to interact with their community, with their family. And then the last thing is, we want to bless our shareholders because we understand that we're under authority and we want to make sure that they are blessed. And there's been some people that have put some money into making this whole adventure go, including myself.
And I want to be a blessing to them, but I want to do it in that order. I want customers first, then employees, then shareholders. And when you do that, God built the world in such a way that everyone's going to be blessed in the process. Yeah. Amen. Amen. What. When you first developed Red Balloon, what was the first rendition of Red Balloon like as compared to what you have now? Yeah, no, it's a great question. You know, we started, honestly, it was a bit of a hobby job.
I was just going to kind of throw a job board out there and see if it was going to be. It was going to stick. So. So we, you know, my brother and I in our basement over in my basement over a weekend, knocked out a job board. And we called it Red Balloon, because if you've ever been on a hot air balloon, it's kind of this. Well, clearly a floating sensation. But it's very quiet up on a hot air balloon because you're kind of going with the wind. And so there's not a lot of noise up there.
And it felt a lot like the job seeking process where you're not getting a lot of feedback, you're clearly going somewhere, but you don't feel like you have a lot of control. And so, uh, but we also saw job seekers going to Red Businesses or red states or red parts of blue states where they could be free. And so we thought, okay, red balloon, that makes sense. And then dot work because, well.com was taken. And we believe that work is actually a good thing. And so it's red balloon, dot work.
We just threw it out there as a job board. And then I got a call from Fox and Friends and they said, hey, is there a chance you could come on and talk about the nation's leading job board for companies that don't have a vaccine mandate? Because our original stance was, look, if an employee wants to get a vaccine, they're an adult, they should be able to make their own decisions. But that's probably a conversation that you should have with your doctor, not your HR department.
And so that was controversial enough that I ended up being on Fox News quite a bit, just talking about that. Well, all of a sudden we had a thousand businesses and hundreds of thousands job seekers. And we're like, okay, we clearly have a business. And I didn't have a customer service team. I didn't really have a technology team. And so we, everything was held together with duct tape and bailing wire, to be honest. But we were connecting people.
And I was starting to get thank you notes from perfect strangers saying, you know, you've changed the trajectory of my family or you've saved my marriage or I'm going to church again, like, all these really amazing things that came out of just, you know, creating this site that helped connect these people together. So we started there. But as we've grown as an organization and we are now in a position where we're helping many thousands of employers, we have a larger team.
One of the things we do now is we do recruiting services. So not only can you post jobs, but if you would like us to just take over the hiring process and avoid some of the both heartache and the pain and the legal risk of hiring, then we will go out and we will actually proactively find people that are a good fit for your open positions, will bring them to you, and you'll know that by the time they, you talk to them, they've gone through the red balloon gauntlet.
And you have the blessed assurance to know that they're not going to bring a lawsuit, they're not going to be a bad culture fit for our organization. And we do it for only 4,500 bucks. We do it for a lot cheaper than a traditional recruiter. And we have filled everything from the CFO for national religious broadcasters to many positions at family Radio and many, many other positions. We're recruiting for Tucker Carlson right now for Public Square.
So hundreds of positions we've been able to fill for our customers using this process. And so we kind of morphed from just a job board who was just focused on freedom, which is fantastic. And we still do that. We still have over 150,000 unique visitors a month to something where we can actually just solve your hiring problems, whether that's through job postings, recruiting, or some of our ATS software. And it's just been really fun.
Robert, when you are part of a story for an individual and for a business where you get to bring them together. We got a thank you note from someone we recently placed in a job and they're like, this has just changed the trajectory of my family. And I don't know what I would have done. I wouldn't have found this business if you guys hadn't been out there. And being part of that story for thousands of people is just an incredible blessing. I wouldn't trade it for anything.
Amen. Amen. Yeah. When I was going through your website, I mean, I've seen positions on there that range from, you know, accountants to truck drivers, and. That's right. Pre K teachers to insurance agents. I mean, you have a very thorough and rounded out platform with literally thousands of different positions. Correct? That's correct. That's correct.
And these are, you know, these are businesses that you can go in and know that when you apply and when you get the job, you're going to be evaluated based on the quality of your character, not the color of your skin or your Twitter following or your sexuality or any of those things. They're going to say, we want the best people for the job. And it is very. The way you build dignity in a person is to have them accomplish something hard, but accomplish it right.
And when you're in a work environment where you're not judged based on how hard you work or how, how, how much value you bring to the business, but instead you're judged based on some DEI rule, or we just want people who have a certain worldview that's dangerous and, and you lose some of that dignity that is achieved through that.
So I will tell you, most of the businesses on Red Balloon, many of them are Christians, they're all conservatives because they've all signed a pledge that they're going to protect the freedom of their current and future employees. And then all the job seekers on Red Balloon, they have to sign a pledge. They think that America is a good country. And that they're not going to be a whiner. Roughly so.
And, and when you do that, man, it is so much more fun to work with people who have an aligned worldview, who are there to get work done and not complain all the time. Amen. Amen. Explain how your website works. I mean, for example, if I was looking for a job, what would I have to do? Yeah. So if you're a job seeker, everything on Red Balloon work is free for you. You can go in there, you can create a profile so that companies can find you, you can share that profile with others if you want.
It's a self sovereign profile, so you get to decide whether it's published or shared. It's not like LinkedIn where they're selling your information all the time. We're not going to sell any of your information. You own your information, you can fill out your profile. Additionally, you can look for jobs that are being posted by employers today and that gives you kind of a view of what's out there. And if you apply, you're going to be first in line. I had one employer down in Southern California.
He said, I posted jobs on ZipRecruiter and he said, and I got 300 applicants and only three were worth talking, talking to. He said, I posted a job on Red Balloon and I got five applicants, but three of them were absolute rock stars that I wanted to hire. So you're going to not be in the noise of one of the massive job boards out there.
And if you're a job seeker who signed that pledge and is part of the community, you're going to have a much higher probability of getting in front of those job seekers. So you can go and you can search for jobs, you can apply to jobs, you can fill out your profile for free. There's also a ton of free resources for job seekers. So we had our labor lawyer, Laura the labor lawyer, which is fun to say.
Laura the labor lawyer actually wrote a employee bill of rights and responsibilities and that's a free resource for our job seekers to let them know what are their rights in the workplace and also what are their responsibilities. We also have a bunch of training videos from the Leadership Institute where you can learn how to interview, how to write a resume. So we want to be a blessing to our job seekers as much as we can and everything's free for them. Right?
So go on there, create a profile, apply to jobs, learn from the resources that are on there. We'd love to. Bless you. If you're a employer, everything's really straightforward. For $195 a month, you can post jobs on red balloon dot work. If you don't get an applicant that you are happy with in the first month, we'll actually give you a refund. You will give you $195 back. We are so confident that you're going to love the people that are there.
And then if you want us to take over that hiring process Again, that's $4,500. And we have done this for hundreds of employers. You know, we had one business in Dallas. He said, you know, you have saved me $30,000 or higher by using your recruiting process. So, wow. We simply want to come alongside and be helpful. So as a job seeker, go on there, create a profile, check out jobs as an employer, go in there, sign up, post your jobs. You can do it yourself or you can have us take over.
We want to bless you in any way we can. Amen. Amen. I think I see one statistic on your website that said as an employer, something like, I think it was 46% of all new hires are bad hires. Is it really that bad? It really is. And so we did it. We did a study and we've done a bunch of studies around bad hires.
Basically the number of people that are coming into companies and we've had customers call us and say, look, we hired someone from a different job platform who was actively trying to destroy our business. They were leaking financial information. They were giving customers intentionally a bad business because this was a pro freedom, pro God, pro America business. And they were very upfront about that. And this employee was actually trying to destroy their business. And so when you.
And so we did a massive survey and obviously we have. Not only do we have thousands of employees or employers and millions of job seekers, but we also have done research on other employers. And the reality is that 46% of job seekers or of new hires come into a business and just aren't a good fit. And I'll tell you why that happens. And we've all been there. If you're a small business owner, you know what's going on. You're super duper busy.
And the reason you're hiring is because you're super busy and you don't have time to put 20 hours into an interview process. Right? You just are trying to like, okay, do you have a pulse? Good, get in here and get to work. Because I've got a lot of work to do. And unfortunately, that's a very bad decision because not only is that going to potentially produce a bad hire 46% of the time.
But it also, like this is person, someone who you're bringing onto your team, who is a going to earn a lot of money, but also is going to be maybe your point person with customers, with everybody else. So we encourage employers, if you do a good hiring process, it should take 20 hours of time. And I know when that. That feels overwhelming as a small business owner, like, I don't have 20 hours. Right, but you also don't have the $50,000 it's going to cost if you hire the wrong person.
That's part of the reason we do the recruiting process. If you don't have the time, we can take it over. But if you don't want us to do that, you really do need to invest the time and energy. Because getting a bad hire within your four walls, particularly in today's society and culture with the litigiousness that's out there, it is worth the time and effort to make sure you get the right person. And one of the things we do is we can.
If you reach out to me, I'm happy to give you our entire hiring process, which I will give to you for free. And you can actually find how you can screen for talent, but also how you can screen for culture within your business. We will happily give you that resource for free. You can just reach out to me. I'll just tell you it's Andrewed balloon dot work. And if you reach out to me, I'll happily share that process with you.
Because we want businesses to not be in those lawsuits, to not be struggling. And so either if you want us to take it over, we'd love to, but if you don't, I'd love to just tell you how we do it so that you can help protect yourself in that hiring process. Amen. Amen. I also seen a chart on your website says something like companies that actively engage have a clear advantage versus companies that have low engagement. What do you mean by that? Yeah, so it's. What we're talking about is.
So there's two things here. There's a employment brand. So you need to. For employers, we all understand that if we want to get a new customer, it's the, what, seventh or tenth time they see your brand that they start to feel comfortable. Comfortable with it. Right. We talk about that marketing all the time. Well, when it comes to employment as well, we have a tight labor market for good talent.
And so if you want to get the best people, you need to be actively working on and thinking about Your employment brand. And that's who you are as an organization. Why would they want to work for you? You need to be pitching yourself. The labor market's not a vending machine where you can put in a quarter and get out a great employee. You need to be actively building your employment brand. And that can be done with videos, that can be done with talking about yourself.
And as you're building your employment brand, we encourage employers. It is a huge legal benefit for you if you live your values out loud. And I know that sounds counterintuitive. You think, well, if I come out as a Christian or conservative employer, is that going to put me in a spot where I'm going to be open to lawsuits or tax or anything else? But think about it like this. And if you talk to lawyers, you'll find out they'll agree.
If you come out and say, look, everyone is welcome to work here. We have a merit based employment. We're not going to discriminate based on religion. But I as the CEO am a conservative Christian and I'm going to run this business like I mean it. Well, when you do that, if someone comes into your organization and three months later they're like, hey, I'm going to sue you because you're acting like a Christian CEO, you can say so. It's all over our website, it's all over job postings.
And I told you that in the interview process. That gives them no legs to stand on if they want to try and bring some sort of legal action against you. So, so when you're in that employment, when you're in that recruiting process, we encourage the two things. Build that employment brand, but also live your values out loud. Don't be afraid because it actually will be a protection to you. It'll be a protection and also it will.
The type of employees that you don't want in your organization will probably not even apply. Amen. Amen. Well, Andrew, this has been awesome. I mean I believe you're tapping into something that, that needs to happen. I mean I believe the services that, that you provide as a connector between like minded believers that want to work for like minded companies that need them. I mean that's, that's awesome. That's awesome.
If someone wants more information, they would like to ask a question, etc, how can they do that? How can someone get in touch with you? Yeah, so there's a couple different ways. So again, go to Red Balloon Dot work. There's a ton of resources on there and we'd love to have you be part of the community, part of the movement that we're producing. You can actually just reach out to me directly@AndrewedBallO.work. that's actually my email address. I will do my best to respond.
I get a lot of email but I would love to hear from you. The best way to follow me is I'm on a variety of social media platforms, but I'm Most active on LinkedIn. So if you want to go on LinkedIn and look for Andrew Crapuchettes, there's not a lot of crap you shuts out there. And follow me.
We are putting out content every single day on how to build company culture, how to manage employees, how to hire without getting into legal trouble, and we might even put a couple funny ads on there poking fun at some of the entitlement that we have in today's economy. So yeah, go to LinkedIn, follow me there or reach out to me andrewdballoon.org Amen. Amen. I'll put links all this in the show notes below, folks. Are you looking for a place to work? A place to establish roots?
A place where you can find others that hold the same values and morals that you do? A place where you don't have to walk around on eggshells worried you're gonna offend someone if you say Amen or whatever. If you're an employer and you want to find people who believe in the value systems you've established in your business, you're looking for like minded folks who believe like you do. I encourage you. Drop down the show notes right now. Click the links right there.
Get in touch with Andrew Krapuschetz right now while you're thinking about it, don't wait because you know the devil's going to try and make you forget about it. Do it right now while you're thinking. But go to red balloon.org red balloon.org check out the platform that Andrew and his team put together. It could be the answer to your prayers and the prayers of an employer looking for someone just like you.
Amen. Andrew, I saw a section on your front page that says it's time to grow up and get back to work. I think that pretty well sums up the feeling of most sane people right now. Amen. Amen. Absolutely. Yeah. I do appreciate your time. Yeah. Well, thank you for having me, Robert. It's a blessing to talk to you. Blessing to talk to your. To everyone who's listening to the show. It's important. Let's, let's act. Let's praise the Lord and get out there. And do stuff. Amen. Amen, folks.
That's all the time we have for today for Andrew Krapichetz Marcellus Pastor Bob reminding you to be blessed in all that you do. You have been listening to the Faith Based Business Podcast with Pastor Bob Thibodeau. We appreciate you as a listener and fellow believer and want to encourage you in your entrepreneurial efforts.
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