Clarence Jones

And, you know, you know, a lot about my life, but there's some things that, uh, it happened. And I, and I think it's probably best if I start to, when I was born, Cause I was born up North in the Bronx. Uh, I grew up with five other siblings and, um, we didn't spend a whole lot of time going to church. What I can remember about going to church is probably my grandmother smacking me in the back of the head.

Whenever I fell asleep, um, as we continue to grow and we came teenagers, I know my family, we all moved to, uh, Florida because my brother had asthma really bad. So we ended up living in, um, Miami. And we were pretty poor. Uh, the man that was married to my mother left us stranded down there. He was supposed to sell a house and come meet us down there. But, uh, he ended up marrying my mother's sister, became a bigamist and left us. you know, broke my mother with six kids in Miami.

So we got into a lot of stuff down there as six kids just trying to struggle and making it. Um, I remember getting high with my brother drinking with him and his friends. I started smoking marijuana at age 14. We just, uh, we, we pretty much did what we wanted to do because our mother was never around. Uh, I remember after a while it got to the point where it's so bad. My mom sent me and my sisters back up to New York to live with my grandmother.

And, uh, I was in the house, the only boy with three girls that didn't go well. I lived there for about three years. Um, I remember going to this one school. Where I was the only black kid in the entire school. And, um, so I was subject to a bit of racism at that time. And, you know, as a young kid, you don't even use the word racism. You just know that you're different and you're treated a different way. And I was desperately just trying to fit in.

So a lot of stuff I would just take, I remember taking a lot of things, the name calling and the joking and the insults and just laughing it off, thinking that these were my friends, but I was treated pretty badly at that school. Uh, my grandmother found out about it and she pulled me out and then I was able to go back down to Miami and live with my mother again.

But um, that wasn't any better because I got around my brothers and once again, we were, you know, while doing what we wanted to do, I can remember one particular time when my grandmother came back down there and she wanted to take me back to New York. And I didn't want to go, you know, because we were poor in Miami we didn't have much but I had freedom. And at that age freedom was everything.

So I remember even cursing at my grandmother telling her to leave me alone and my mom didn't do anything about it she never disciplined us. So I still regret that to this day. I know me and my brothers, we, uh, my older brother, George, we fought a lot. We even fought over the same girl once. We fought over the same girl, the first girl that I started dating, he ended up sleeping with her, so we fought over that. It was a lot of stuff going on in our family that wasn't great.

You know, as a kid, I remember things, you know, my grandfather was molesting my, uh, youngest sister for many years, and, uh, Yeah, I, I, I couldn't do anything about it. I remember when it all came out and my grandmother, my mother tried to sweep it under the rug, you know, they didn't want anybody to know about it. My grandfather ended up getting off. I don't even remember how he did it. Somehow he never went to jail and never did any time for it, but he got off on that.

And all those things bothered me as a child, but you know, I just didn't know how to express it. So I just bottled it up and I continued drinking, getting high with my brothers and my friends. I remember we lived in Miami, me and my sister, my older sister, my older brother, we used to have this bench outside the yard and we would sit there and we would drink quarts of beer. And, you know, we'd smoke and that's pretty much was our life there.

Um, after, uh, Miami, uh, I left and we moved to South Carolina. I remember me and my mother, my brother, we were on the road for a long time. And, uh, we went to several different States and we ended up running out of money in South Carolina. So I lived in South Carolina, finished off high school there. Um, met my first wife there and, uh, we got married at a very young age. And, um, I had my first daughter when I lived in, uh, I'm sorry, I'm trying to get it straight. It was in South Carolina.

So we moved, I moved back down to Florida. Yeah. And, um, me and my wife had a very volatile relationship. She ended up becoming a striptease dancer and I was a waiter in a restaurant and then we were making so much money. All we did was cheat on each other, drink and fight. I don't know how I was able to even raise my daughter in that type of environment, but I remember I always used to try never to smoke in front of her.

So I used to have this place outside where I would go and smoke and do my drugs. And then I would come back in the house and, uh, I don't, I don't think that, um, I was hiding anything from my daughter, but at that time I thought I was. So, you know, it wasn't a surprise. My daughter was about eight years old that me and my wife got a divorce at that time. So we left each other. Uh, we came back together a year later and we decided to give our marriage a second try.

And that's when I had my second son, well, my first son, but, um, That wasn't planned and I remember blaming her thinking that, you know, she had gotten pregnant on purpose to trap me back and we were just trying to work things out. So between that and everything else that was going on, that relationship didn't last. So I left, uh, I left my wife with two kids because I, I just felt like, you know, I didn't want to be in that relationship anymore.

I remember moving down to, uh, Myrtle Beach with my older brother and this young girl friend of mine's, her name was Crystal. Same name as my daughter. Don't ask me. And, uh, I would like to sit here and tell you that she got me hooked on crack because, um, she was smoking crack before me. But the truth of the matter is I saw what she was doing. I liked it. And so I did it. So I have nobody to blame but myself. And, you know, I thought that I could just because I did cocaine before marijuana.

I haven't done acid, but we had never me and my brother always told us that we would never touch crack cocaine, but we ended up trying it and I liked it. And, you know, you never think about becoming a crack addict. At the onset, you always think like, okay, I'm just going to try a little bit of it. I can handle it, you know, and you try and then you might go another three or four. It was like another three or four months before I tried it again. So I felt like I had it handled.

But it's like they say in AA, like one is too much and a thousand is not enough because you have that one and you think, okay, well, I just had one. I can go a couple of months without doing another one. So I'm fine. But eventually, you know, I was doing it every day. I mean, I was making. So much money and about 90 percent of everything I was making was going to pay my drug dealers. And I had moments of sobriety times when I would get off it for a year and I get back on it.

I go back and forth, but, um, I'd always end up back on the stuff again. I remember one time I thought I was, I was so proud of myself. I had went a whole year without drinking, smoking, or doing any kind of drugs. So I felt like I should go out and celebrate. You know how I went out and celebrated? Everything. I did everything. I felt like I deserved it. So, yeah, I've been there. That was my life for a long period of time. Can I ask you a question? Uh, yes.

I, I thank God I never did crack because I probably would've killed me. But, uh, when you do crack, how long does the effect last? Now, I'm not an expert, so, um, I don't, I'm, I'm, let me, let me ask you a question. Have you ever done Coke before? No. Okay. Well. Cocaine, you snorted up your nose and it lasts a nice long time. It gives you a nice mellow buzz. It's really, really nice and mellow. When you do crack cocaine, it's like you took that whole mellow buzz and compressed it.

Into like five minutes of it, like it takes you, it just, it just, it, it, it's a real big rush and it, but it doesn't last long. It lasts about five, maybe 15 minutes tops. So yeah. Okay. Right away. You want to do some more and you want to do some more. You want to do some more. You want to do some more. Um, me and this girl, we used to have this joke. We used to play, we'd look at each other right before we, we do our first set. And I said, I meet you on planet nine.

I'll meet you on planet, take a hit. And we'd be in our own little world. Yeah. You know, I've, I've seen guys, they get really paranoid. They would like this one, guy, he would go and he would hide under the kitchen table because he thought police were getting ready to kick the door in any minute. I never could do that because I felt like if any type of drug that I did was going to make me that paranoid, why do it? Because you can't enjoy it.

And, um, a lot of people like to blame the drugs and it gets to the point where the drugs are the problem, but they are never the, uh, the initiator of the problem. The initiator of the problem was my childhood and what I, what, what I was lacking from my childhood. And I didn't even know that, you know, I was lacking guidance. I was lacking a father. I was lacking a mother that I felt like they didn't care.

And All those things that I really needed that I didn't know I needed is what led me to the drugs. Now the drugs eventually became the problem, but until I go back and I find out what the initiator of that problem was and deal with that trauma, I could never get off the drugs. That's why I would stay sober for a year and get back on it. Or I do six months, a year, you know, doesn't matter how long I stayed off the drugs.

I always got back on it because I never went back and dealt with that initial trauma. Um. It wasn't until I checked myself because I always had a job. That's one thing. I always worked, had to pay for my habit. I wasn't about the bum. I wasn't that type of guy that's going to go out in the street and try to hustle for my money. No, I'm getting me a J. O. B. It got so bad.

I've been doing budget since I was 21 years old, I used to budget drugs into my monthly budget, I would have rent, electricity, crack, laundry, and I would budget it in. One time I was waiting tables. And, um, I would, sometimes I would scratch my, my budget down on a sheet of paper, you know, just until I got home. And this girl found my budget and she said, you really shouldn't put drugs on your budget And I said, oh, shoot, I, I, I left that line around somewhere.

So, um, but you know, that was me. So I always had a job. I always worked, I always felt, I, I I led a life that, um, you know, people that worked with me and that saw me, had to see me one way. When I went out and did my drugs, I made sure that I went to places where I felt were the most And lack of a better word, most negative people possible because I didn't want those two worlds to mix.

In other words, in this world, I would never run into the people over here, like my family or people I work with or people that saw me as maybe an upstanding citizen, those that maybe did see me that way. So when I did my drugs, I always went to neighborhoods or places where it was like really, really bad because I would never run into those people. That way I can keep those two worlds separate. Man, that was a lot of work, man. That was so much work. I lied.

I used to sit down sometimes and just think up lies. I had this whole story laid out in my mind, how I would lie in order to get money from this person or to lie to one of my girlfriends about where I was or whatever it was. It was just this elaborate stories. I would tell to the point where sometimes I, I would get high and I would actually believe in myself because I'd be so out of it.

But, um, like I said, that was my life until, uh, I woke up one day in this crack house and I was in my underwear. I'll be honest with you. And I had this shirt on and I didn't even know where the shirt came from. And there was one thing that I knew, I knew I couldn't live my life like this anymore, but I didn't know how to stop. But I knew that I could get my life together for a while. I could get my job back.

I could get my fiancee back because at the time I was engaged, I can even, I even knew how to repair the relationship with my son. I knew how to do all these things because I could talk my way into anything, but what I didn't know how to do was how do I not end up back here again after I got everything back? Cause that was my way. I would. Talk my way back into everybody's good graces, get my job back, save up a little bit of money.

But as soon as I did that, I said, how do I not end up here again? And I couldn't answer that question. So that's when I quit my job, gave up my apartment and I checked myself into rehab. This was at the, um, the adult rehabilitation center in Jacksonville, Florida. And, um, I was there for us for a six month program. And, uh, I was pretty serious about getting my life together at that point. That was kind of like almost right before you met me. I think you met me when I left that center.

But two months into that center, I needed a belt because I didn't, I, when you go there, you have nothing and you're not supposed to steal, but I figured, you know, I need a belt for my pants. So I stole the belt. I got caught. And I remember one of the residential advisors took me in the office and said, we have two choices. We can either kick you out of the program for stealing, or you can start the program all over again. So I took that as God giving me even another chance.

And at that point, I didn't really know God like I know him today. And I was just so thankful for that. Because I thought for sure I was gone. I was even thinking to myself how I was going to be back out on the streets again. And I'm thinking to myself, are you kidding me? I'll start the program over again. I'll stay here as long as you need me to stay here. And I'll never steal anything again in my entire life. So I looked at that as a blessing.

A lot of guys would have just kind of walked away as they bump this I'm not starting over again because you got to start over. You got to take all these classes again, but it was a blessing to me. And I was in the office talking to my counselor, about a week later, and I remember just breaking down in front of her and she just took me by the hand and took me to the chapel and that's when I rededicated my life to Christ. And, uh, God became everything in my life from that moment on.

It was, it was just, I can't even describe that feeling. I'm thinking about it now and it's just kind of, yeah. So after that day, I mean, my, my life really changed because I mean, I was in the center, but, and I was trying to do the right thing, but, you know, giving your life to Christ and making him everything in your life, it changes you.

Everything became so important to me to do the right thing, and not because of the rules and the regulations, but because of the way he looked at me, and for what he forgave me for, because I was nothing. Anyway, uh, I remember, um, going to this room to be by myself, just reading the Bible and just trying to understand it and study.

I remember seeing guys there and they would steal, uh, Smoked cigarettes and do other things and you know, I didn't pass judgment on anybody, but none of that was for me anymore I mean, I couldn't do anything but what I thought was gonna honor God Eventually, I took over running the dock at the Salvation Army and every guy before me that took over running the dock would always they were always like Get tips from people that would come, like we'd have the public that would come in during auction

days and they weren't supposed to take money. And these guys, they would stack up all this money. And when I took over the doc, you know, I didn't do any of that. I just, I just couldn't bring myself to do anything that was going against what, um, you know, what God wanted me to do. You know, there's one thing I live my life by. It's like, um, you have these rules in society, right? And then you have God's law. So I follow the rules of society.

As long as they don't go against God's law, you know, if God says not to steal, so, you know, even though in society, some people feel it's okay to steal, you know, I'm not going to do it. I'm not supposed to lie and, uh, it's, it's not, it's, it's difficult to really understand because people will think, okay, as a Christian, you know, you live by all these rules and it's not the rules that guide me, but it's my love of Christ that guides me.

It's not that I'm afraid of breaking the rules and said, I don't want to disappoint the person that gave everything for me. That's what drives me, you know, following the rules is just a by product of loving God. When you have a relationship with Christ, you can't base it on anything that anybody else says or when anybody else does, it has to be personal between you and him. Now you can have people disciple you. I've got a lot of people in my life that I respect and that I go to advice.

You're one of them. Rick Lee is another, Pastor Darrell, but I don't place any of you guys on a pedestal. Because I realized as much as I love and I respect so many people in this world that they are people. So, I didn't know at that time that the Holy Spirit came inside me, but I know now. I didn't know what it was at the time when I gave my, I, I just started crying uncontrollably.

I went to the chapel, I went, I kneeled down and uh, I remember uh, one of the um, chaplains came by and put his hand on my shoulder and I couldn't stop shaking. And the Holy Spirit, it was convicting me, everything in my mind was, I was thinking about all that stuff that I had done all that horrible things that I had done in my life. And God was going to accept me back into his family, even though I did all that.

So I felt like, man, I cannot let this person down again, but I thought that I would. And I, I didn't think I was worthy and I think that's why I was, you know, just so grateful and so thankful and I think that's what strengthened my relationship. It became paramount to me not to disappoint God. That became more important to me than anything else in the world. Anything. I can't describe how important that was to me because I felt like I didn't deserve it. You know, who does that?

Who, who, who, who takes a person like me after all the stuff that I've done and just say, Hey, come on home. It's all good. You know, so, and, uh, It was the Holy Spirit convicting me and then I, if I tell you that I never got tempted again, I get tempted all the time. I think about, I still have drug dreams is what I call them. Sometimes I'm driving in the car and I'm thinking about doing all kinds of stuff.

But before I go out and I do anything, I think about all that God has forgiven me for and everything that he has put in my life today. And it's not worth it to me. It's not worth it. But that was just part of the process, Jesse. You have to have a strong relationship with Christ and that only comes from truly connecting your heart. It's got to come from here. You can say the words. People say I'm a Christian. You can memorize the Bible. Um, I still have a hard time memorizing scripture.

But, um, I think that in order to be a Christian, you, it has to be from the heart. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you used the word family. I mean, it was like, I don't know if you heard yourself, but you, you said it was like finding a family. I don't remember your exact words, but it, so you, you started to see God as your father. Yeah. It was more than like that. I mean, he was my father, my teacher, um, my counselor. He was everything to me.

I mean, saying he was my father is a good thing to say, but it's so much more than just that. It really is. I never knew my father, well, not really well. So, and that was one of the things that I had to work through, but, um, God became everything to me and, uh, for those next, uh, I think it was like four months that I was in that center. It was, uh, it was important to me. These are the things that became important to me, not to judge. I couldn't judge anyone because.

You know, God didn't judge me. He didn't care what I did. So I didn't want to be that type of person. I, um, I wanted to honor God in everything I did, even when I was by myself. You know, and I just really wanted to, um, to learn more about who God was and how to spend time with him. So those things were where I spent most of my time. And, uh, you know how they say, when you give your life to Christ, everybody thinks, Oh, angels are coming in. Your life's going to be easy.

We as Christians know that once you give your life to Christ, that's when the devil starts looking at you. So things started getting tough for me. They really did. People who I thought was like in a position that worked for the center that I thought I should be looking up to were treating me in a way that I said, how can these people treat me this way? They're supposed to be role models for me to look at.

I mean, uh, this one chaplain, he used to get up and preach in front of us and he would curse at us. He would call us a bunch of, um, bums and you know, just all kinds of stuff like that. And I said, well, how could he say that about, I mean, how is that going to help us to become better men? Yeah. Uh, there was this one guy that stole the shirt from me. He was one of the RAs that worked on floor. And when I went to his room, just to ask for my shirt back, I got cursed out.

So a little bit of the old me wanted to come out and give him a little what for, but God stayed my hand. He stayed my hand and I ended up just saying, okay, the shirt wasn't that important, you know. Um, and it really wasn't, you know, but we, we get a limited amount of clothing in there. So it was, to me, it seemed like it was important, but you know, you take that time to let the Holy Spirit say, Hey, you know what? I'll get you another shirt. I'll get you a better shirt.

So you have to, you have to really allow the Holy Spirit to work in you because we still live in this flesh. So when something happens. The flesh wants to immediately react. I get mad. I want to immediately, you know, hit somebody, do something. But if I take a moment and I let the Holy Spirit rest in my soul, it helps me to think things through. And it's like, okay, well, maybe I'll do this another way. But without the Holy Spirit there guiding you, you'll react.

And I think that's why a lot of people just, you know, if it feels good, do it. I used to be that person. So you have to take time. You know, they say God's time isn't like our time. Anyway, when I left the center, I left with a guy that was, uh, you may have remembered this guy named Britt. I, I stayed with him. He offered to let me live with him. And, uh, you know, after I started living with him, things change, you know, he started going back out doing stuff. He treated his wife really bad.

I mean, he didn't even tell her I was going to be living there. So she got mad at me. Then he wanted me to pay him everything I had. And I told him, look, You know, I'm not going to have much money. I have to find a job. And then after I find a job, I want to try to get out of your house as quick as possible. So I'm going to give you what I can, but I want to save because I figured the best thing that I could do for you is to move out.

I appreciate you helping me, but I mean, this is you and your wife's home. I don't want to stay here forever. But, um, he made it really difficult for me to the point where, you know, I just, Felt uncomfortable, but, um, I remember he had let me hold his bike to ride back and forth to work and I appreciated that. And, uh, one day I was going to get the bike to go to work and the bike was all taken apart. And he said, well, it's my bike. I needed to take it apart. And I said, well, that's okay.

I get it. It's your bike. But I said, it would have been nice for you to tell me this before, you know, it's like 15 minutes for me to get to work. So I run over to Barnabas. And I see a bike over there and I tell the woman, I said, look, I'm on my way to work right now. Can you, uh, I'm going to, this is gonna make me cry again. I'm sorry, but, um, can you hold this bike for me? And I'll promise I'll come back right after work. I said, don't sell it. I'm going to come back and buy 15 minutes.

He said, where do you work? I told her I work in Abbey. He said, go ahead and take the bike. And I said, but I have, I don't have any money. He said, just pay me when you come back. And man, Jesse, I tell you, it was, it wasn't a great bike. It was only 15. But I felt God's hand over all of that. I mean, that bike, you know, it was, that was everything to me at that time, because who would trust me, take a bike, you know, I mean, because, I mean, it doesn't really mean a whole lot.

But here I am some black guy coming into your store. You never met me before. You don't know me. I tell you, hold on to a bike. I didn't even expect her to hold on to the bike. I just thought I'd give it a try. She, she let me take the bike. And, um. It, uh, it was paramount to me to make sure I went back and paid that. And I did, I went back and paid for the bike. In less than a month, I was out of his house. In less than a month after that, I bought a car.

Um, God was able to, um, just to help me to do all those things, you know, because I couldn't do anything on my own. Um, I remember walking into the Journey Church, uh, meeting Kim Bales, nicest person I ever met in my life. And after that, that was my home church. I hadn't met Tamara yet because I was still trying to get back with my, uh, with my son's mother, my one, the woman that I had left in Jacksonville. I thought for sure God was going to repair that relationship.

You know, I'd even gotten some advice from Ben Hall and Jonathan Mark about what to do. And so I wrote her a letter and all this stuff, but, you know, she just told me she had moved on. God just completely slammed that door in my face. And I mean, that was one of my whole things. And so I was kind of at a crossroads at that time because I thought, okay. This is what I thought was going to happen.

I was going to come down here, you know, get my life together and get back with my children's mother and we were going to have that life that we thought we were going to have. I thought for sure that was God's plan for me, but God had another plan. And in my mind, I said, well, you know what? If she's not getting back to me, what am I doing all this for? I was so close to walking across the street where I lived.

And I could just tell from the neighborhood where to get the drugs from, you know, when you are out there in the streets, you know, so I knew I could go and get what I wanted to get and get high and just let my troubles go away. But instead, I went into my little apartment, and I put on some Christian music, and it was the hardest thing in the world Jesse I take for me to sit there and just get into that music. I don't think I really listened to it I was just trying to drown out.

The other voice in my head, and that was hard. I spent like a week doing that. And then finally, like I said, I gave the Holy Spirit time to work on my flesh. That took a while, because that was the closest I came to going back out there again after giving my life to Christ. So I'm not perfect, even as a Christian, you know, but, um, I didn't go. You know, I, I allowed him to work on me, took some time, but it did.

And then I don't know if you know, uh, Jeanette Richo, she was, uh, she used to work at the salvation army and I would go down, uh, donate my time when I couldn't find a job. And she said, I have this girl. I want you to meet athletic and real smart. And my first thing I said, Oh my God, she must look like a dog. I'm very honest. That's my first thought, but I love Janet. So I said, okay, Janet, I'll meet her. And I didn't want to, I really didn't want to meet her.

I just didn't really want to meet anybody to be honest with you. And so then I was going to the Germany church, but Janet, she was a pastor at her church. So I, I said, after church, I'll come by. Cause you know, their church goes long. So I went over there and I was, my plan was to go up there, meet this girl, say, Hey, how you doing? My name is Clarence. Nice to meet you. Got to go. And I was going to be out the door cause I had things to do.

But, um, Tamara came walking up the stairs and she looks pretty good. So I said, I'll sit and I'll talk for a little while. And, um, We talked for over an hour, I mean, and, uh, you know, that was, that was it. I mean, God had placed her in my life and, you know, I, she was the type of girl that I would have never, ever been interested in if I had met her five years prior and if she'd have met me five years prior, she would have had nothing to do with me. She was smart. She was intelligent.

And most of the women that I met before that was smart and intelligent. I didn't want to have time with them because to me, they were so condescending. It's like they were trying to put me in my man's place. But Tamari never did that. I mean, she was very smart, very, very sure of herself, but she was also kind.

In a way that I never met a woman like that before that could, that could be that way and still be, you know, approachable and talk to, you know, most of the women I've spent my time around where I hate to say have a fast women. So anyway, but, um, yeah, that was a, we, um, Well, you know that story. So I know I kind of jumped all over the place, but, um, uh, the way I was able to, um, to keep myself off of drugs was Christ, of course.

But, you know, there's this story where this guy's in the ocean, right? And he's a Christian, he believes in God, and a ship comes by to save him. And he said, that's okay. God's got me. Okay. So the ship goes on. Then a helicopter comes by to pick him up. He said, that's okay. God's got me. God's going to save me. So the helicopter leaves. So then an airplane drops down a ladder and these emergency guys try to, he said, Nope, that's okay. God's got me. I got faith in God.

God's going to save me. So they go. So the guy stays out there in the ocean and he ends up dying. So he goes to heaven and he said, God, Why didn't you save me? This guy said, well, I sent a ship. I sent a helicopter. I sent a plane, but you didn't get on any of them. My point is that, you know, having faith in God does not mean that we just wait for this gigantic miracle to come and change our lives.

Sometimes we got to do the work and we have to notice when God is working in our lives, you know? So I had to do the work. I had to go to men's fraternity and I had to deal with a lot of, issues that I didn't want to deal with. I had to face a lot of things about my childhood that I didn't want to face. You know, I had to have a lot of hard conversations about, you know, basically not loving, not really liking my mother very much, about blaming my dad for leaving my mom.

Um, never having a decent male role model in my life. And my father died before I got a chance to really confront him with anything. So then I was left like, well, how do I even resolve this? But, you know, there are ways to do things, even if people have passed before you get a chance to talk to him about the things that they may have done to cause you trauma. So I wrote him a letter. I remember I always planned to go to his grave site and have a talk with him at the grave.

I never got a chance to do that. But, you know, I did have a chance to really prey on it a lot and talk about it and realizing that these are the things that made me into the person that I was, and it helped me to move past it. You know, to this day, me and my mother don't have a great relationship, but I love her and I no longer blame her for my childhood. It comes to a point in a person's life, sometimes even as a teenager, that you have to take responsibility for your actions.

And I did a lot of things. My mother did the best she could. She had six kids and she was broke. I mean, she may have not did everything perfect, but she did the best she could. And I had, it took me a long time to get past that. And you know, you never going to, you know, God's not just going to, he can, he can fix and do anything, but it's not always going to be, you know, the Lord just waves his hand and all your problems go away. You know, we have to get in there and do the work.

He will give you the ability and he will put people in your life. that will help you to work through these things, but you have to accept it and you have to do it. And, uh, Christ will never leave you. He will always be there with you. You know, he's not going to fix every one of your problems.

Not that he can't, you know, as human beings, we have to understand that sometimes by going through things, we come out better in the end, you know, but we have to go through it because if we don't go through it, then we'll never learn anything. And we will remain the same selfish. People in the end. I don't know. Some people just don't really get that. It's like, I don't know how to make diamonds, but I know when it starts out, it's not this nice, shiny thing.

It has to go through a process, you know, a painful one. Yeah, painful one. But it comes out better in the end. So you say, okay, well, well, why do we have to go through the pain? Why can't we just come out better in the end? Because, you know, it just don't work that way. You don't just become a good person just because you don't go through anything. You have to go through this thing. Um, because I don't know if that's just the way things are.

Laws of nature, you know, we're not going to become better people unless we learn how to do it. If children are given whatever they want. Do you think that they're going to grow up to be great people? Yeah, there's a slim chance one in every 500 might do that. But most kids, if you just give them whatever they want their entire life, they're going to be selfish, self absorbed people. That's why you have to discipline them. You have to teach them. You have to learn.

And, uh, you know, sometimes as human beings, we have to go through things. And I, and I had to go through a lot to become the person that I was today. And I'm still going through things. Um, to this day, I still struggle with sexual immorality. Um, this, you know, with technology, there's things on my phone that I happen to look at that I have to turn off right away. My mind tends to wander sometimes. Maybe I might look at a young lady a little too long. I might think something in my head.

But, uh, my wife told me this many years ago. She said, it's okay for a bird to fly around your head. Just don't let him land and build a nest. So there ain't no nesting. She's very wise. Yes, she is. And I still struggle. So it's, it's not easy, but it's a whole lot easier than it used to be. I rely on God for everything. You know, when I make a mistake and I still make mistakes, I mess up. I go to him immediately. I own it.

Um, where before I used to make excuses for my mistakes, now I own my mistakes. Yes, I messed up. Yes, I did this. I'm sorry. I don't want to do this anymore. Sometimes it's as simple as that. You know, you have to turn away from those things and, uh, learn something from it. Because if you make a mistake and you make excuses for that mistake, well, then you'll never learn anything. And you're bound to make that mistake over and over again.

But if you own that mistake and you take ownership of it. You realize what you did was wrong. You repent from it. You can turn away from it, and hopefully you won't make that mistake again. And if it does, you know, you'll make it a lot less than you did before. Mm hmm. So, and. Well, you know, when you were telling me about how you, when you're, I think it was your first wife who said she shut the door and she wasn't, you aren't going to have that relationship.

You're, you're tempted to go back out. The fact that you forced yourself to put yourself in your apartment and listen to Christian music and just you toughed it out for a week. I mean, that was extraordinary. That to me, that was like, uh, that was the Holy Spirit. I mean, that was, uh, like. When you, as you're talking now about going through things and dealing with, uh, life the way that you do is that, that initial thing with the, uh, resisting the drugs was.

So illustrative of how you handle life. You just, you really are extraordinary in that way, because a lot of people are caged in face of all these difficulties, especially knowing that drugs would be a quick answer. I spent so many years hiding what I was doing. I mean, I could, I could, I hate to say it, but I could teach a class on how to get away with doing drugs. I used to be, I used to go to this restaurant and I would go in the bathroom.

Well, and I would, I would, I would hit the crack and then I would. Cut the vent on and I would blow the smoke up in the vent. I would wash my hands, wash my face, spray on cologne. And I'd be back out there in front of the customers waiting table. I mean, sometimes if the vent wasn't working, I knew how to flush the toilet at the right time to blow it down. I hope I'm not teaching. But I'm saying I know ways to get away from, but you know what?

All of that doesn't mean anything because throughout. My life after I became a Christian, God has shown me so many times that he was there for me. There was this one incident with Pastor Darrell, and Pastor Darrell didn't know me very well. I mean, we had just met, I don't know, a couple of months, and you know, he's a pastor of the church. He meets a lot of people. He wanted to sell this refrigerator that was in the back, and people were coming by to pick it up.

He said, he says, look, Trans, I'm I was helping at the food ministry. He said, these people will come by to pick up this fridge. I think they're gonna pay about six, seven hundred dollars, something like that. I need you to get that money for me. Just hold on to it. And then bring it by tomorrow. And I looked at him and I said, Do you know who you're talking to? I mean, do you know me? You want me to collect six or seven hundred dollars for you?

I mean, what if it was seven and I said it was six? Or, what if I said they didn't? I mean, why would you trust me? You don't even know me. I didn't say this, but this was going on in my head. And so he looked at me like it was just matter of factly like, you know, Hey, this is what I asked people to do.

So it became paramount for me to get that money to make sure I get a receipt to make sure I get it back to him, because if he was going to take a chance and trust me so, I don't know, just so carelessly. It was no way I was going to let him down. And God kept doing stuff and putting things in my life like that. And, you know, those are the things that would happen in my life that would reassure me that the Holy Spirit, God was always with me. God was, he was, he wasn't judging me from my past.

You know, I know people hear you hit all the time when you give your life to Christ, you know, You're no longer that person. You are reborn and you know, it might get kind of muddled up. People say, Oh, I'm reborn. Um, they don't understand it, but you truly are reborn. You, you are the same person. You're in the same skin. You have the same thoughts, but you are not the same.

You are not the same because, and here is, I'm going to simplify it for anybody that's thinking about it because before when this happened, I would do that. Now, when this happens, I do something else. And the something else that I do is a positive thing that honors God. And why do I do that? Because I take the time to let the Holy Spirit guide my flesh rather than respond. Because that's what we do as human beings. We respond in the flesh. We do this, we do that, we do that. This happens, boom.

The Holy Spirit, all it really does is it gives you time. To sit back and let God guide you and if you do that, I mean, I don't know, it's, it's really. Yeah, I don't want to let that point go by without people. Really hearing it because you've said it twice now, that just taking the time to pause before you react and listen to the Holy Spirit is so, so important. I mean, I, I know because I've, I haven't done it so many times. I have really messed up by not.

Just pausing and you know, there's another thing with, if you don't mind me taking up this time in the same vein, you know, when we talk about anger, you know, it's so easy to get triggered and to be angry and I've made the mistake so many times of just not. Waiting just to just, you know, how they used to say count to 10.

Well, there is a thing that I learned the hard way is that when we get angry, there's this, this hormone cortisol, it shoots through our body and it's the fight or flight response. But, but that hormone has a life span of about 90 seconds. So if we could just give it some time and let that Let that hormone get through our body, then we're less likely to make some really stupid decisions and say some things that we're going to regret, do some things we would regret.

Man, I learned that the hard way, but I love your point. You've made it pretty powerfully, and I think people need to hear that. It's just pause. You know, and, and in the big book, you know, it says cause when agitated or doubtful and ask God for help. That pause is so important. It is. Thank you for, for bringing that up. I mean, that's a bad at me and my wife. We, uh, We still argue from time to time. I gotta be honest with you, that's probably one of the most difficult times.

When I gotta, um, you really need to pause with your wife. You don't want to say something. Yep. Yeah. I love my wife. She's great. She's intelligent. She's beautiful. But you know, we, we, we have conflict. And, um, it's that thing where it says, uh, never go to bed on your anger. I will admit that we do honestly try to do that, but there are some times when we fail. But, uh, I will say this.

We always, even sometimes if it takes a day, we will always come back and we, we will deal with the conflict. That's one thing I never used to do. I never dealt with conflict. If I'm mad at you, I ain't talking to you, I ain't looking at you, I ain't, I don't know you. Right. But you have to, you have to learn to deal with conflict. Right. Sounds like you've done a pretty good job there. I mean, we never, I don't think we ever get to the point where we don't get angry. We don't have conflict.

It's just, we got to deal with it in a mature way and you, thank you for bringing that up because people need to hear that. Yeah. Pray with your wife. We pray together. We pray every morning. Me too. Me and Becky play every day, every morning. Before we leave, I go to work and she does her thing, but constantly, uh, it's a thing.

A lot of people I heard on the, uh, Christian radio program the other day about how it's a certain large percentage of even Christians Couples don't pray together because it's too personal and I think yeah I mean it took us a while to get there, but we we can't live without it now. Oh, man It's so powerful. Two or more are in agreement. We're just coming before the Lord. Man, he answers prayers all the time for us. Just amazing how he, he comes, he comes through in every situation.

And, um, pray with your wife and pray for your wife. And we even pray with our son. And I'm going to tell you, 17 year old boy. It's, it's not always easy to play with him. This one woman came into a restaurant, me and Terrence were sitting down in there and she just, we knew her because her son, you play basketball with Terrence. And um, I asked her about her husband and she just started telling us about how her and her husband separated. We're going through a divorce and all this stuff.

And me and Terrence are like, my gosh, I mean, I couldn't believe you're just telling us all this right out here in public. So, um, I mean, I just listened. You know, I mean, we knew her, but I mean, I just, I felt a little uncomfortable, but you know, she wanted to pour her heart out. I was going to listen. And when she was done and she looked like she was about ready to cry. So I grabbed her hand, I grabbed my son's hand. I said, let's, let's pray right now.

So we sat there in the middle of the restaurant. I think we're at, um, some, uh, what was that? Chipotle's and we just prayed for her. You know, and later on after that, she called my wife and she was going on and on about how that was just everything to her. It picked her up and thank you for your son and your and your husband. And you know, I don't know, I just I think it's important to do stuff like that. You know, pray with people and it's not so important to pray with them in public.

But it's important to pray with them when you're being urged to do it, whether you're in public or not. Bible talks about, you know, um, some of the, I don't know, people that were praying in public just to be seen. And there's nothing wrong with praying in public, but if that's the only reason you're doing it, then, you know, you need to check. But what you shouldn't do is you shouldn't shy away from praying with people. When you are urged to do it, right. And, um, I still work on that.

Sometimes I get a little fool people watching me, but you know, there are times when I will break through that and I'll just do it. And the more you do it, the easier it gets. Well, what I hear you saying is you're obedient to the, to the Holy Spirit. Yeah, yeah. I try my best to be.

Was there, if there was maybe one major thing that you could share with somebody out there, a believer or non believer, one thing that you could, you could pass on to somebody out there in the world, out there in the future, or anybody who might just happen to stumble across this podcast? What, uh, What advice would you have?

The best advice I can give to somebody is something that I learned and it deals with trauma because I think that word is, people try to make it more complicated than it really is. Trauma to me is anything that's happened to you in your life that You know, has caused you to act in a negative way and trauma could be something is could be as big as maybe your dad walking out or maybe you were bullied as a child, but whatever it is. And I know it's hard.

We have to learn to deal with that initial trauma in our lives, whatever it is. And I think that's important I think there's so many people deal with traumas that they don't sometimes I was dealing with trauma that I didn't even know was. I blame my dad for things. And I didn't, I didn't even realize that I blamed him for anything. So my one advice is to find out what is that one thing in your life?

That may cause you to be this way if you feel like you're, you're living your life in a negative way, because it's always trauma is always the root to our negative behavior. It's something that happened. And sometimes it's difficult to find it but it's important to find it because if you don't find it and deal with it. Yeah, it's your life is never going to be quite right. Right. So that's really important. Yes. I know so many people that need to hear that. Well, anything else you want to add?

Uh, I don't want to, um, touch it short. No, I mean, just love God, love people, love God, love people. I will share one more thing because I, I learned a lot and I like to share because things, these are things that used to confuse me. Cause a lot about, you know, Christianity used to confuse me. And I remember I was in this class and we were learning how to, to hear from God. I'm like, how do you hear from God? I don't, I don't hear none. Is he talking?

So he used this example, Rick Lee used this example. And he said, um, cause I, I got a big mouth and I talk a lot, you know? And so Rick said, if, um, if everybody closed their eyes. People that didn't know me and I started talking with, they know it was me and they probably wouldn't knows me. So Rick said, if I close my eyes and Clarence started talking, I would know it was him, even though I couldn't see him. And the reason why he would know it was me is because he spent time with me.

He got used to me. He, he knows me. So even if he doesn't see me, when he hears my voice, he recognized it was me. So he used that point to say. The reason why we don't hear from God is because we don't know God. We don't spend time with him. But the more time we spend with God, the more time we get to know him, then we will start to notice the things in our lives that are from God. So how do you spend time with God?

Well, One of the easiest ways to spend time with God is in his word, read your Bible, you could spend time with God by speaking to people that you know are following the Lord, people that you respect, and you can go to church. So you, and then one of the most important one is prayer, either one of those things and if you don't know how to pray pray is just talking to God. So spend time doing those things. And at first it might seem awkward. It might seem, Oh, I don't know what I'm doing.

I don't know what I'm reading, but keep doing it anyway. Keep doing it anyway. And eventually you'll start to notice how God communicates with you. God communicates with you in a lot of ways. It could be a big booming voice, but it might not be. One time we drove our car off a 95 going like 80 miles an hour. We pulled down on Pecan Park Boulevard. And as soon as we pulled down on Pecan Park Boulevard, we got a flat tire and I pulled over the side of the road.

I got out the car, me and my wife, we prayed and we thank God for flattened our tire because if our tire would have gotten flat on 95, we probably wouldn't have been alive to talk about it. So that was a way that God was communicating with me saying, Hey, look, man, I got you. And I wouldn't have noticed that now, had I not been spending time with God, I'd be like, man, I got a flat tire. Now I gotta do this. I gotta do that. And that would have been my attitude.

That would have been most people's attitude. But my attitude was thank you, God, for making that tire hold off. Until we got on a secondary road where we were not going that fast because when a tire bops like that, it can go anytime. So that's an example to see that, you know, you will hear from God and you can communicate with God. If you spend time with him, the more time you spend with anybody, I know your voice, whether I'm looking at you or not. Because I spent time with you.

I know what you sound like. I've gotten used to you. The same thing works with God. And that's one thing that used to really confuse me when I was early in my Christian life and learning, how do I, how do I hear from God? But um, I learned that if you spend time with Him, just like you would anybody else, you will eventually learn to hear the way He communicates with you. That is so, so awesome. So beautiful.

Yeah, about, I guess it was maybe five or six years ago, I saw, you know, Jesus said, and John, I think it's 1027, he says, my sheep hear my voice. I know them and they follow me and I said, Lord, I want to learn what that means. I want to hear your voice and everything that you just described is so true. It's just so true. You got to spend time with them. You got to listen. I mean, but I mean, it's just so awesome. Like I'll be at work and I say, I'll drop.

A screw or something in the dirt and first thing I do is I say, Holy Spirit, will you show me? Oh, thank you. You know, he answers before I even finished, you know, asking. And sometimes I'll hear, it sounds like my voice, I'm saying something really smart. And I'm thinking, well, I know that's not me, but that's God. And, uh, you know, it happens. And, uh, I think people really need to hear what you just described because it's so important.

You know, I've also heard the analogy of, you know, a marriage. You know, what if, what if I don't? Talk to my wife. I'm not going to have a relationship if I don't talk to her. So I found that if I just talk to him throughout the day, he's going to talk back and, uh, is so such a intimate thing is, uh, it's hard to describe, but I know what you mean, and I know that there's somebody out there that needed to hear that today. I hope so.

God has been really great to me and, uh, life isn't always easy, but, you know, God's always there, always there. Well, would you be willing to pray for, uh, the people who, who are listening to this podcast? You know, think about this is what, this is the miracle of, of modern technology, which was not even thought of, but when, when I was born anyway, that we can do this podcast and have it, it's going to exist.

Probably for, I don't know, another century out there until they come up with a technology that makes this one obsolete. I don't know when that'll be, but somebody somewhere along the way of it on some part of the world, maybe even another planet is going to hear this and they're going to be able to, to get something out of it, according to the Holy Spirit. So, would you be willing to pray for us today? Certainly, man. You know, they say once it's on the internet, it's out there forever.

Yeah. This prayer will be forever. Dear Father God, I'd like to thank you first and foremost for waking me up this morning, Lord God, giving me another breath of fresh air on this planet before spending eternity with you, Lord God. Dear Father God, I just want to thank you, Lord God, for opening my eyes, saving my life.

I thank you for all the, uh, the blessings that you have placed in my life, most importantly, the Holy Spirit that you have given to me to help me just to, um, to take a moment just to stop and breathe and, and, and just to allow your ways to work through my life, Lord God.

Well, God, I pray for all those people that may be listening to this podcast and for those who hearts that it may touch and even those whose hearts that it may not touch Lord God, I pray for all those people, Lord God, that you will just make yourself known to them more God, that you will walk with them as you have promised that you will help guide them and open their ears, maybe soften their heart a little Lord God.

And, uh, To just, just help them to, uh, to see you, Lord God, as, as I see you, as so many people see you, Lord God, help them to know that praying is a simple conversation. What I'm doing right now is just having a conversation with you, Lord God. That's as, that's as simple as praying is, Lord God. It doesn't have to be this long, difficult thing. You don't have to have the Bible memorized, Lord God. All you need to do is to spend time with you.

Um, I pray that you will help them get some understanding, and if not, Lord God, you will keep them reading the Bible, reaching out to you, going to church, just doing everything until that understanding comes, Lord God. I pray for guidance in their life. I pray for you in their life, Lord God. We just thank you for so many things. The most important thing I would like to personally thank you for, Lord, is for giving us your son Jesus that died for our sins. Amen. Amen. Thank you so much.

Well, thank you, Jesse. I appreciate the opportunity just to sit here and have a conversation with you, man. Yeah, it's been great. I've really gotten a lot out of it, I'm telling you. You know, I will say one more thing. I know I talk a lot, but I didn't even mention how I met you. I'm sorry. I skipped over that entire part. I was, can I talk about AA here? Is that okay? Sure. I mean, do you just, yeah, I want to hear your version.

When I got out of the center in Jacksonville, I'll make this short. I, it came, it was important for me to get connected to an AA group. And I got connected to that AA group, the one down in Million Island. And that's when I met you, Jesse. And, um, I remember I, it was really important to me to find a sponsor. But I didn't know how to ask anybody and you just came up to me and just offered to be my sponsor. I didn't even know that people did that.

I thought we had to ask people to be our sponsor. I didn't know the process. I didn't know what was going on, but I just thought that was really awesome of you to take all that pressure off of me by just asking me, can you be my sponsor? You know, and I, you, you, you just, once again, that was God in my life. And I recognize that.

And, um, I just thought you were this wonderful, soft spoken young man and, you know, and, uh, you just seemed always so calm and so collective and like nothing was going to rattle you and you was just always smiling and I said, I want to be like that. I really want to be like that. I want that kind of peace in my life. And um, I like the fact that they.

Everything from you was coming was Christ based and, um, cause I know AA start was originally Christ based, but over time, you know, in order to reach more people, it, they kind of, some groups kind of take their Christianity aspect out of it. But the fact that you were a Christian and that you can walk with me, became my spot, wanted to be my sponsor that, that was, that was cool. That was everything paramount to me. And I thank you for that.

It must have been the Holy Spirit, because I don't remember. I remember. I remember we were sitting in that front room in those chairs, those, uh, those comfortable chairs. Those were so comfortable. We were talking, like, right after one of our first meetings there. I don't remember which one it was, but I remember you had approached me and, uh Yeah, it was cool. Well, I had the Holy Spirit because it's, you've been a real blessing to me and I thank you. Thank you.

And I, and I thank you for taking the time to do this because you, you, you're such a mature Christian. You probably don't think of yourself that way. Of course you don't, because you're too humble, but, uh, but, but there's so many people that need to hear what you had to say and I thank you.