Hello everyone and welcome to the Face Your Ears podcast. My name is Justin Hoschella and I'm joined with Rich Bozek. Rich, how are you doing today?
I'm doing well. Good to be back in the helm again recording.
Absolutely.
What's going on? How is, recording life these days?
Good I'm working on a song with a client right now. Production has gone well and just waiting for some additional vocals to get recorded. Some harmonies and improvisations and things like that. And it's great. It's more of a pop kind of song, I think. And enjoying the process and really enjoying working with this client, oh, all good.
Just podcast. We encourage you to please share it with your friends, share it with other musicians, other people who might just want to know more about recording, or might be interested in the topics we're discussing. So please post it on your social medias, email people, text people, tweet people.
Yeah. Send them a letter. I don't know.
if someone sent me a letter with a link to a podcast and said you have to listen to this and it was handwritten, I might do it. I mean
That's pretty compelling. That takes a lot of effort. But speaking of social media and sharing and so forth we want to hear from you and so whether that's telling us what you think of the podcast or ideas that you have about topics we could cover or that you want to hear more about, let us know so you can hit us up through Instagram or. Twitter or x I guess it's called now. I don't know. It's all confusing.
If you want to X someone, yes.
access, I don't know. or you can, you know, send us an email, uh, whatever you'd like. But we'd love to hear from you, whether it's ideas about the podcast or thoughts that you have on, on the shows we've done in the
Hold on. I just heard a little ding there. Is that someone reaching out to us right now as we're recording this?
Oh,
they were reading our minds.
it's just junk mail.
but anyways
Rich, anything to let our guests know about that they might be interested in?
Yes. Absolutely. Uh, so Justin and I have been mixing it up with the way we've been putting together the format for the podcast. And I think We are ready to have our first guest on the podcast soon. That's all in the works.
So Rich, why are we here today?
That's an excellent setup. Today we are here to talk about why we are doing what we are doing. I guess more specifically, the question we want to pose is for those of you out there writing and recording and going through the whole process to bring your art to life. Why? Why are you doing it? What is your intention? And we want to toss around some ideas today and wax philosophical on that
Why? is a very, I think, meaningful topic for us to dig into, especially after last episode talking about AI, because it can feel very defeating frankly to think about how somebody could go to a website even today and very easily put together music. for whatever project they're working on. And so it seems kind of defeating like, ugh, what's the point? And that sort of thing. But I think that, music and humanity transcends all of that. Rich, why are you doing what you're doing?
What is your intention as a musician?
That is a big question because I have different facets of what I do as a musician. I guess what I'll focus more on today is the creative aspect of songwriting and recording because this is the Face Your Ears podcast. Where we talk about that stuff. why do I do what I do? Well, obviously I've reached a place in my life where I have steady work. I'm able to pay the bills. able to support the family.
And my intention for doing what I do as a creative person, as an artist, as a songwriter, As a performer, all of those things has evolved. When I first started, it was, as Everyone has this dream of they want to make it big, they want to do big things and great things and have a lot of people notice what they're doing and make a big impact. And as life goes on, and the world and the way things go, The place I'm at now is, I actually feel more liberated than I was when I first started.
Meaning, the reason I do what I do now is purely out of a desire to do it, and out of a place of trying to express some sort of creativity, emotion. The act of creating just to create. that's kind of where I'm at now. I feel like I have more flexibility and freedom because I'm not viewing it as this thing where I have to make it big. I have to make this big impact and It's more about the actual project or piece in and of itself. What can I do with this song?
To make something that I feel is important in the moment, that serves the process and the creation of that song.
Amazing. Thank you for sharing that. I think A lot of that, most of that really resonates with me. I don't have necessarily a lot to add to that. other than just agreeing with it. when I reflect on my own experience and being a musician and creating music, It really just frankly boils down to creativity and that, that is a very, lack of a better term, primal thing.
I think creativity is such a innately human thing and that gets expressed in a myriad of ways, be it musically with Photography, sculpture, there are just so many facets of expressing ourselves. for me, there's also a thread of curiosity. So the kind of stuff that I enjoy doing musically can be very strange. I love electronic music. I love sculpting sound, which basically is like making weird, Squeaking, burping kind of electronic sounds. I don't know.
But I love the process of discovery and surprise. And I think that's the key word is process. I just think that there's something about doing the work that is so satisfying. You might be chipping away at something for an hour and not getting anywhere, but then all of a sudden, after all of that toil and work, you discover something some sort of serendipitous thing happens. How many times have you been in a studio and made a mistake that turns into, something really cool.
Like you forgot to turn a plugin off or some preset loaded weird or whatever. And some magical things can happen. So I love that aspect of it being creative and being able to explore. Especially in collaborating with somebody else like I'm doing now, like I mentioned at the top of the episode, there's a small degree of risk in trying something creative and, that person may like it, they may not.
But that's part of the joy of it is that you could find out new avenues of creativity by working with somebody else that is fundamentally different from you and their creativity. And so that's another element I really enjoy and why I love doing what I do is the ability to collaborate with other people that are very different from me. And that affords me the ability to learn and to grow. As a person. I think it's very challenging to grow as a musician typing prompts into an AI engine.
That's not something that I find fulfilling. it serves a purpose. you know, in saving time and money, but that's not what I'm after as a musician. It's a very personal journey.
And I thrive in that space of discovery of trial and error of learning, of just practicing and honing a skill to sharpen it and get better and better because the better you get at a skill, the more you're able to discover the more that creativity flourishes and it just, it's like this never ending energy that just perpetuates throughout your life. That's my answer.
Yes, I think you brought up some other things that... can change the intention of what you're trying to do on a given song. Collaboration kind of a risky thing to do when you're working on music. Because sometimes, you have to give and take. And also, I mean, in your case, I know sometimes someone hires you as a producer to help finish their vision. You have your creative ideas but you have to be flexible and be willing to give almost completely and abandon ideas completely.
in order to fulfill what the client is after, which could be different from if someone was like, Hey, I want to collaborate with you from the ground up on a song and have you do your production and everything. But I want you to really, react and do things in your way. You know, that's a different ask. Can often stimulate different ways of thinking about what you're doing and probably allow you to be a little more connected to your ideas I enjoy collaboration.
And I enjoy working alone I think both have their advantages and both have their shortcomings.
Mm hmm. I agree.
I feel like the biggest shortcoming of collaboration when you have like a great idea and, you've decided, okay, let's, collaborate. Then you have to learn how to give a little bit and, and work around whoever else you're working
It's like your ego gets in the way like If you're working with somebody else, like you can think this is so excellent. I love this idea. This is going to be amazing. And then they're like, nah, I don't really like that. to your point, you have to, Learn to compromise,
Yeah, if you're going to collaborate, you got to learn to be a collaborator and you got to learn to give. And I think That can be difficult. That can be something that could be restricting as well. But restriction doesn't always necessarily mean a bad outcome. I imagine like some of the great songwriting duos of the past, have locked horns on things until they work it out. Unless you identify your roles early on in the process or what the intention is.
Yeah. There's a great story about a Depeche Mode song, Enjoy the Silence, which is probably Their best known song, you know, if not one of their absolute best known songs and the song is written by Martin Gore and the demo that he initially wrote for Enjoy the Silence was a very sort of somber, slow ballad and the producer for that record heard Martin's demo and thought, you know, this would sound a lot better if we sped it up, if we made it more of an up tempo kind of song.
you know, Martin hated the idea, like vehemently hated it, and it took him like Weeks or something to like get around that or get over And, finally they got to that point and they started recording and and everything like that. And it became the song that we hear today, this more uptempo more energetic song and not this dirge somber song. if people hadn't intervened, we wouldn't have that same song.
Like, It probably wouldn't have been the hit this beloved song that it is today if there hadn't been contention or that, disagreement.
true. And then you could look at it from another point of view. Maybe the dirge, if we were presented with that dirgey tune right away, that would have been what we got and we would have loved that. So it's always about, decisions. I think once you enter into collaboration, you gotta be willing to, sacrifice a little bit of what. you had in mind for myself, when I'm collaborating, I have sometimes ideas that are reactions to things that I feel strongly about.
When you invite people in, you gotta let them explore and if you invited them in, you have to allow them to have some of their flavor in it. And you can't get in there and micromanage too much because then you start to, spoil the well
it defeats the purpose, right? Like if you're, overly controlling to that creative person, like why are they
Why are they yeah, if you want to, have your ideas imposed on everything, then you may as well just be doing it yourself. And there's some things that I feel, that I write, that are like that.
Yeah. Good point.
right now, like, right now I'm working on a bunch of songs that I don't want any input on. I have my own vision, and that's what I want to do. I'm like, getting in there and doing everything exactly the way I have it in mind. And... That's why I'm doing that that way. so I don't, invite someone in and be like, go ahead, but then change my mind midway. I know with these songs, there's certain things that need to be done in a certain way in my mind. Right.
But then I have other things where I'm like, yes, this is a good thing to work on with others. Right.
experimentation for me is so key. I think so often my time in the studio is just that. It isn't necessarily writing. And that's probably because I have more of a proclivity towards electronic music. So there's a lot of experimentation with sound, different synthesizers, sound modules, plugins, you know, things like that. Just exploring and experimenting with different sounds. And that, to me, is a very inspiring... Course of action and the ability to just dive into the sonic.
Well, if you will, and just follow wherever that takes you. Sometimes it leads nowhere. Sometimes it's just getting more familiar with the equipment or the software or whatever. Other times it turns into a really cool melody or a loop or a chord progression. and then, you know, and builds eventually into a song. I think that the experimentation element in creativity is just, it's such a joy to me. that's where I get into the flow.
So, You've probably heard of that idea before, getting into the flow of things. And flow state is so wonderful to be in. Because you lose track of time, it just seems like you're able to focus intently and deeply and create things that you couldn't otherwise. And so, I think that again is a very human thing, is to get lost in the flow of creativity. And I was scrolling through Instagram and I came across Rick Rubin, famous... music producer, from our youth and, today.
And he was talking about this topic of creativity and so forth. And he was saying how it's, not your job. To create something that other people like your job is to create something that you really like that you think sounds amazing and incredible and that you enjoy, because you frankly have no control over how people feel about it, how they're going to react or respond to it. And I was like, wow, that's a really great perspective. And it's true. You don't have control over other people.
you can write a song according to the algorithms and trends and whatnot, and people will still hate it. So, I think what he's talking about those just being true to yourself being true to your vision, your creative impulses, at the end of the day, creating something that you really love and are proud of and enjoy like that to me is time well spent because letting go of the idea of like trying to write stuff that people love is so liberating and I just love that.
Oh yeah, absolutely. Different people have different intentions with regard to what they feel the function of their music will be. For example, some people write because they want to put it out for sync licensing and they want to get into those movies and commercials and whatnot. With the idea of either, being able to say, My song's in a movie. Some people think I could do this and make a lot of money doing this if I get into it. Some people, write because they want to make that next hit.
I've worked with many a producer who, that's their whole, idea. Is this song a hit? And they might look at what... I guess formulaically could have constituted a hit based on what I guess people have analyzed with regards to length structure and whatnot. But I think like all of that, in my opinion, is you're constantly chasing what is popular or you're chasing someone else's idea. I think the good ideas.
And the things that are memorable and things that we look at as like, this was great art a lot of times were something that someone just did because they wanted to do it and a good idea came out of it. I mean, there's a mix of all of it you have some people who do the formulaic thing and they think It's great. It's hard to like judge, everything on those merits without knowing how it was derived I guess what I'm trying to say is don't be afraid in this day and age to experiment.
We have all these tools at our fingertips. We have all of the technology. We have a huge body of music that you can go and listen to and get inspired. We live in a time when we shouldn't be trying to all be making the same thing. We have so many options. When record labels were bigger, 15 years ago, maybe when there was still, you know, more of a desire for musicians to be like, I want to get signed.
And they'd be trying to work on putting together this perfect thing that some singular person who would hear them at some label would be like, we're going to pick you out of obscurity and make you, you big or
make you a star. Yeah.
Yes. You know, that was what I saw a lot of. with songwriters and nowadays, I feel like it's geared more towards social media. Look, I got to write a song that people want to put on their TikTok videos and it's like, okay, fine. is that what will bring you joy? I don't know. But is that productive as a songwriter and as an artist? What do you think about that?
I think it depends on your perspective and where you're coming from. I think for some people, frankly, that are 1920, that probably sounds great. it is relative to the time period in which it's coming about. So I think Frankly, it sounds abhorrent to me, but I'm 42 years old. I, I, I wish the world were, a different way, but I guess that's, that's just me longing for a different era. Like you spoke about with the record labels and making it, and that just doesn't exist anymore.
And so the new version of quote, making it is writing That TikTok viral song that people put into their 15 second video over and over and over again. you know, from my point of view, it's sort of depressing, but from, from other people's point of view, they probably think it's great. And they're striving for that.
well, the whole intent with social media seems to be a numbers game of, I got a lot of people to like what I'm doing. And I know there's a desire for people to have what they're doing appreciated. Like everyone likes that with everything, right? If You cook a good meal, you hope that people like it, it's getting to a point of where. That's all it is. I can't say all. It's hard to say all with any of this. There are other good artists doing things out there where they're not concerned with that.
But, there are a lot of people who are doing it that way,
Well, I think the problem you're driving at is saturation. Like, the difference between, say, the music scene of, like, 1992, you know, when Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Nirvana are exploding, is the market saturation was a fraction of what it is now, the reach of. The average regular person was virtually zero, whereas today with social media and AI, their reach is nearly infinite. So, These big bands that really made it back in the day had this engine of a record label.
marketing them, getting them, into recording studios and like all of that stuff. It's interesting, none of that stuff is even relevant anymore. Like, getting into a recording studio? sure, that's, that's nice,
It's fun. There are nice spaces, but not necessary.
But you can do it in your bedroom or in your home studio and get just as good of a output. and then turn over to your MacBook Air and, you know, load it up to YouTube and Instagram and, And
have the reach with zero cost.
yeah, and X. the landscape has just totally changed. And I think with that, again, the values of the people, have changed with it.
I mean, Our values are different from those before us. The fact that you and I are okay with recording it at home.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. People before us would balk at that.
Yeah. I bet there's like studio guys, if they even... are listening to podcasts, lo and behold, our podcast, would be well, you guys can't get the sound that you'll get in my booth, you know, or whatever,
Yeah. My tube amps are That whole.
yeah. And they might be right to some degree. I mean, we won't be able to get that kind of sound. Maybe.
They might be right. But the thing is, the majority of people today either can't hear it or they don't care.
Yes. And that's why we had the AI episode. And that's why we're all doomed.
Terminator music. But we could go down a huge rabbit hole of all of this, it's just interesting to reflect on this because there is such a fever pitch of change with things like AI and the technology we have today that really does force you to stop and ask that question. why are we doing this? what is my real intent behind it? begs the question, like, are you realistic about your investment?
So just speaking in more practical terms, like in terms of time and money and that whole overall investment, what are your thoughts on that, Rich, when you think about that more practical element?
Yeah, I guess intention would clearly intertwine with that. If your intention is, I just want to make a few songs that I could post on SoundCloud have fun with and share with friends. The barrier to entry and the level of quality might vary depending on what you're trying to do. You might not need to go crazy and buy a high end microphone.
You might not need to spend any money to go into a studio or hire someone granted, there are people who have deep pockets who could do all those things even for a casual adventure, but on average. something you got to think about, that you're putting into it makes sense with what you're trying to do with it. And then also, the amount of time you're putting into stuff. It depends.
if People like you like the process, then it's a joy to Sync the time into I mean, obviously, depending what you're doing, I mean, you know, five hours of EQing versus five hours of arranging and just, those are some of my thoughts. What do you think?
it's relative. What is realistic for you In terms of time? In terms of money? My personal approach is just to do what I love doing. And, This is going to sound very hokey, but like, Letting the universe sort of, Sort it out.
You know, not killing myself To do things, but like really understanding what it is I want to do and what I enjoy doing and who I enjoy working with and just focusing on those things in the way that it's supposed to unfold and not trying to force anything and, you know, not trying to over engineer anything, just focusing on my values, focusing on, um, Um, my reasons for doing it, you know, if I'm not enjoying it, why am I doing it then? You know,
Justin Hoshela, Justin Hoshela, this is the universe. Calling. Are you there? Why you always just putting it on me?
Because you're oh so mighty and powerful, universe. You know more than I do in your infinite wisdom.
Why do you always leave it up to me? I've got enough to worry about. Can't you make the decision for once? Do you think I really need to be dealing with your recording projects? I've got hurricanes to deal with here.
You do have this whole existence thing to worry about, but, I feel like my job is to find the joy in it and just let it unfold from there. That sounds very hippy dippy in a sense, but that's where I'm at personally right now is just not trying to over engineer anything and not trying to force anything. I find that when you try and force something, usually doesn't feel good and it doesn't work. But that's me.
Yeah, no, I get you.
The thing is like I'll invest money into something when the opportunity presents itself or when I find that there's a reason to, otherwise it's just sort of a random gamble, buying a piece of gear or like investing in, marketing or something like that,
Well, your intentions are different now. you aren't 22 year old who's trying to make it. You're in a different place,
Yeah. that's the thing I would hope our listeners are taking away is that like there isn't one answer. There's only your, answer. you have to sort of figure out what that is for you. what is your, purpose? What is your vision? And then from there, figuring out what you're comfortable in in terms of investment of time or energy. Money, that sort of thing.
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a good encapsulation. And actually, I think this is a good stopping point for this topic. Thank you, Justin, for joining me today and hashing this out.
Absolutely. More to discuss, I'm sure, in the future, but it was fun to scratch the surface of eternity and humanity with you today,
Absolutely. And there's more on this topic. I have a feeling as with the AI topic, which we will get in later episodes of the
In fact, this entire episode is created with AI. Neither Rich or I is actually recording ourselves. We just typed this all into an AI algorithm and
We're a self aware AI who's coming out with it right here. We have a, guilty conscience, app installed, so we just have to lay it all out See you later, Justin.
Thanks, Rich. Thanks everybody for listening and we'll catch you in the next episode. Bye.