Carlos Sainz: pushing for progress with Williams

This episode is sponsored by Honda. Since its first Formula One victory in the 1965 Mexico Grand Prix, Honda has always taken what's learned on the track and used it to build better cars for everyone. From pushing limits in F1 to engineering the next generation of hybrids like the Prelude Hybrid and Civic Sedan Hybrid, Honda proves that racing doesn't just inspire innovation, it drives it.

And that idea of taking lessons from the racetrack and applying them to road cars has always been a part of Honda's DNA. Decades of engineering in the demanding world of Formula One have helped shape the performance and efficiency you see in Honda's road cars today. And now that same thinking is shaping the next generation of hybrids as well. Cars like the 2026 Prelude Hybrid and Civic Hybrid show that electrification can be both efficient and genuinely fun to drive.

The 2026 Prelude Hybrid and Civic Sedan Hybrid are engineered for fun. From the racetrack to your driveway. Learn more about the Prelude and Civic and the latest innovations at Honda.com.

In Formula One, being in the right team at the right time is crucial. Carlos Sainz left McLaren in 2020. Five years later, his former team and his former teammate are the reigning world champions. But when I asked him if he has any regrets, his answer was immediate. No, and I tell you why not. Carlos is working on something, building something with William. As F1 enters a new era, he feels he's in the right team. He's confident their time will come.

If you ask me in three, four years time where I would like to be, I'd say ideally, fighting for a championship with Williams. There's nothing that would make me happier. than putting all my effort using the peak of my career to bring back one of the greatest things in F1 back to the top and if we manage to achieve that I'll look better.

Hello everyone, I'm Tom Clarkson, and this is the first F1 Beyond the Grid of 2026. I sat down with Carlos Sainz after the first preseason test in Bahrain. He'd had a taste of his new car. Enough to talk about how it feels behind the wheel and to see where the team needs to improve. We also look back at his first season with Williams, how he went from feeling powerless to reaching the podium. And he talks about what he calls his life's project. Carlos, welcome to the show. Thank you very much.

How are ya? How was the shortest off season of your career? I'm good, thank you. But um yeah, it was a short time um away from the circuits. But uh at the same time I think everyone was so excited with the new Rex and like looking forward to get back to the track that Yeah, I didn't care too much about having a short break because I also wanted to get

Well come on to them. But when you're balancing, you know, just a couple of weeks off, which was the case, how do you get it right between rest and preparation for the new year? Yeah, I think you said it well. I think it was... pure weeks off was only two weeks because

For us as drivers, we are normally busy all the way until the twentieth of December, um, after the season ends. We have the Abu Dhabi test, then we go back to the factory, do our last simulator sessions of the year, maybe some end of year Christmas. celebrations with the team which still commitments all the way sponsor things all the way until the 20th and then we have obviously christmas off

probably until the beginning of New Year's where we start our training again. And it's only two weeks. Um if it wasn't for how early we had to be in the simulator mid January, early January. I w we would have got maybe a bit more time off. But um yeah, you need to start training all over again and you need to start going to see the team again. No time for any half Iron Man competitions. No, not for me. There's people out there doing half iron so what? Or you, you've done one in the past.

I I did one in ten years ago now, but um I'm fit enough to do one for sure, uh given the amount of cycling, running and everything I'm doing, but no, no, it requires too much effort and lately I I I do things where I can win. Yeah. 我愛你 I I like to to think that I can win. So yeah, I I know in a half Iron Man I I still cannot win. Right, what can you win? Golf?

like my kind of competitions, adjusted handicaps, yes. Tennis. Uh paddle I'm playing a lot. Tennis I've started to play a little bit more, but paddle is the one that I is taking my time now. I'm trying to improve at paddle quite a bit.

Yhä, in general just a lot of cycling, but still I'm not at the level I would like to be. Are you at the height of your powers as a Formula One driver now? It's you're going into year twelve. You're only thirty one, you've got that wonderful balance of of youth and experience. D do you feel you're in a really good place?

I feel I'm in a good place not only on track o with my experience on track pero also I think as a human being I think the thirty is a good time because you feel also fit enough to do or very fit to f do a lot of things because you've been training them for ten, fifteen years since you were fifteen. Um, so yeah, I think in the thirties you you still have very good reflexes, good fitness level, good experience. So yeah, I think it's good years to be alive at the thirties.

And when you look back to the guy who made his Formula One debut back in twenty fifteen, how much did that Carlos not know? Too much. I wish that Carlos knew a lot more about Formula 1, but it's this kind of sport where you need to leave it to understand it. It's been almost twelve years since then and I can tell you my eleven years, eleven years since then.

And I can tell you the amount of things I've seen in those 11 years in Formula 1 still surprises me, like the amount of things I've learned, the amount of surprises I've received or seen. It's a it's a very particular, very, very special sport in that sense. Where have been your biggest learnings in that time?

Like always, the difficult times are always the the biggest learnings. Um I think the all of the difficult times, which good or bad, I've had a few in in Formula One where things haven't gone the way I would have liked them to go. At the same time I've had so many great ones that they compensate for their not so good ones.

Uh but yeah, here I am hustling and um finding my way, always finding your own road. I think every driver has their own pathway, their own road to through their career and I think I'm in the middle of mine.

Well, when you were last on Beyond the Grid in twenty twenty four, you said I'm going to miss standing on the podium in twenty twenty five. Now, how wrong you were? You got those. Two podiums, three podiums. Wha how do you view the Austin Sprint podium? Can we talk about them? I mean, let's start with Baku, the first one. Just how much of a surprise was that? whether you would get on the podium or not. You remember we were in Bahrain. I think I was fastest in testing.

I was confident. After that I said, this car is going to give me maybe a podium. We had the interview at the end of 24. I didn't expect Williams to deliver. such a let's say competitive car for twenty five. JV had promised me the car was a good step ahead and um quite a bit points up on down force some setup items that were coming through and I said, okay, well, for sure podiums no, but hopefully we become a solid midfield car.

But then we had really good testing here and I was like actually this this car I like it. We we we're gonna have fun this year and maybe I can get a a podium this year. But then the start of the season I think you all saw how it went. It went uh it was extremely frustrating. Probably the most frustrating time in my career. Was it just it was one point in the opening four races, wasn't it?

No, it was a it was a disaster because I've never feel so yeah um powerless in a sense where I felt I had done testing right, I had adapted to the car quick I understood the car fairly well. But then in the first ten races of the season, I would say one different thing happened to me and I learned one new thing every time from those ten races. That didn't matter if it was the team.

myself or just incidents or things that were sometimes in my control and other times out of my control. But it was 10 races where it didn't matter how quick I was, didn't matter how quick I had adapted to the Williams car. Car was competitive and yeah, Alex was doing top fives, top sixes here and there. And I was like, I don't understand why I cannot get a top five or top six if I know I'm as quick or sometimes quicker, sometimes a bit slower, but I felt quick.

But the results never came. I kept believing that I said it at one point this is gonna change. And all the bad luck and the bad things are happening, it's gonna pay me back. Because it's not normal what's happening. And look, then Baku came. For the first time with Williams, Carlos Sainz will stand on the podium. 2021 and in a full race since here in 2017. Let's go! Let's go! Best value in my career, guys. You cannot imagine how these days... This is my first...

What was the key to unlocking the potential? I've been trying to debrief my season with my team to try to understand what happened in those 12-13 races because I was like, It's not normal. Like I've never had such a bad run of ten, twelve races where nothing went well for me. Again, showing good speed. So that at least was not the concern. It's not like now I'm three, four tenths of the pace like we've seen sometimes other drivers be like not even in the pace. Like I know I'm in the pace.

but there's something that is just not clicking. And trying to debrief it, um, we came to a couple of conclusions that I will not personally share here, but the only thing that I I took away from it is that I kept saying, I'm not gonna change things of one thing of how I'm working, because I believe I'm working well and results are gonna come. I'm just gonna believe the result is gonna come. And I'm gonna keep going, keep going, keep going until the result comes. And eventually it came.

And he said, How do you explain that? I don't know. I think life sometimes is like that. You you you try, you try, you try, you try and you need to try a thirteenth time for it to happen and Yeah, you just need sometimes you need five tries, sometimes you need twelve, and sometimes you need thirteen and you never know when that good moment is gonna come and it came after

And there was no looking back. And and it took actually a crazy set of circumstances, didn't it? What was the six red flags in qualifying in Baku? It it was kind of always gonna be something like that, wasn't it? It was always going to be something like that. At the same time I was P two in that quality on merit. I think I was very fast in Q one, very fast in Q two and I was almost pole until Q three when Max took away with a with a great lap.

and I said I'm here because I have the speed and it's the speed is what I've had all the year. It's just things are finally coming together. But imagine me in the first row of the grid um in Azerbaijan thinking after the year I've had, now I'm starting in the front row with Williams, but what's what's the bad luck gonna be today, no?

He did say, I remember in the press conference he said, No, I don't think a podium's possible in the race. I went into that race trying to win it. Like I try to do it with every race. I say if I can get Max at the start and miraculously pull away, I will try. But and because I that's my when I put the helmet on I'm like Let's see how I can get to P1 and see if I can get my elbows out or something. There was the infamous dinner with James Bowles leading up to Baku or uh

Did we make too much did we make too much of that? Or what was said at that dinner? No, we were just Same thing really, just trying to understand what was going on. I think we were just openly talking of what is happening like what do you think James I'm doing well what do you think I'm not doing well why do you think I'm quick but things are not clicking like wanting to have his opinion

and him wanting to hear from me of what did I think of what's happening. It was honestly a fun dinner, like op full open conversation. not too serious or not too concerning, just trying to understand between each other what we could both come up with, with a solution or with a with an understanding of what was happening. That's it, nothing nothing mayor. Did it feel like a win? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you felt like said it at the time, the best volume of my career.

because of all the accumulation of I want to say a bad word but I will not say the accumulation of a pile of mess that had been building up for twelve races and then finally That happened and you saw the rest of the season how it went and Look back. never looked back and it's probably one of the most important lessons in my career, that year 2025. What is the lesson? Just keep keep trying.

If you think you're doing good things right and you believe in your method and you believe you're giving everything, you're giving everything to your team, you're giving everything from yourself, you're giving everything towards your sport. your routines, your commitment, your hard work. If you go to bed that night and say, Did you give everything? And I went to bed all those nights saying, I am giving everything. Things are just not clicking. And when I went to bed

Even that night in Baku I reminded myself, remember you're giving it everything for this project to to go well for you. And if it just doesn't click, doesn't click. But you're doing it. This episode is sponsored by Honda. Since its first Formula One victory in the 1965 Mexico Grand Prix, Honda has always taken what's learned on the track and used it to build better cars for everyone.

From pushing limits in F1 to engineering the next generation of hybrids like the Prelude Hybrid and Civic Sedan Hybrid, Honda proves that racing doesn't just inspire innovation, it drives it. And that idea of taking lessons from the racetrack and applying them to road cars has always been a part of Honda's DNS.

Decades of engineering in the demanding world of Formula One have helped shape the performance and efficiency you see in Honda's road cars today. And now that same thinking is shaping the next generation of hybrids as well. Cars like the 2026 Prelude Hybrid and Civic Hybrid show that electrification can be both efficient and genuinely fun to drive.

The 2026 Prelude Hybrid and Civic Sedan Hybrid are engineered for fun, from the racetrack to your driveway. Learn more about the Prelude and Civic and the latest innovations at Honda.com.

What then fast forward to the first time? Right. And I remember you saying going into that race, no, it might be one of our worst races of the year. Yeah. We had been talking about it for I would say four or five months within the team, like oh my god. We did Barcelona kaos, not good in Barcelona. We went to Hungary, car was not good in Hungary and I said the next one of this is Qatar. And for whatever reason we did do some extra work in the team we said let

Let's prepare Qatar in a different way. Let's try and put together a car that is a bit away or let's say out of our comfort zone for Qatar. Let's believe that the job we did in Hungary and Barcelona is not good enough and let's put something a bit different and take a bit more risk going into Qatar knowing it's also a sprint. we did a good uh good options on the setup and like always when you work hard, when you think out of the box and when you try Sometimes you you get surprises.

Did you think outside the box in terms of set up a lot last year? Is that one of the reasons it took a while to gel? Yeah, sometimes I'm a bit of an overthinker and I consider myself someone that uses the head a lot. And sometimes last year probably I was spending the first 10-12 races trying things.

outside of the box that didn't work you need to remember in F1 there's no testing and part of the reason of why drivers when we go to new teams it takes us a long time to adapt it's because we cannot test we cannot test

outside of a race weekend. So we need to use race weekends to test the setup directions that help our adaptation to the team. Now, what happens if Let's say 80% of the times whenever we test something it doesn't work because it has been tested before by all the other drivers and in the car

is on that other baseline setup is because this never works but you still want to try it because you say it might work for me or 80% of the times never works so let's say until you find one or two items that work for you. How important was it to go through all of that in twenty twenty five ahead of the regulation changes this year? If it was a new team for you in twenty six, how much harder would it be?

Unfortunately I don't think twenty five helps me much going into twenty six. It helps me to learn the team, understand maybe tendencies of the car, which by the way some of them are intrinsic also to the twenty six car. and we are trying to to solve them but at the same time it's such a big change of regulation that a lot of the things I learned in twenty five are not carry over to twenty six. Is your relationship with Williams different to any team you've raced with before?

Is your position within the team? Are you more than just a driver? Well uh I think I am I am a driver, a hundred percent. I'm trying I've always tried to be more than just driver to every team I've been to. There's teams that have allowed me and given me the work and environment to to be more than just a driver and there's other teams that maybe have limited a bit more my options because of the circumstances.

that I was found in and I can tell you Williams have given me the trust to be a bit more j than just a driver and try and help in all the areas that I can help or that James and his team believe I can help with. And I would say it's for me it's at least it's the perfect environment and and it's the kind of working environment I want to be in.

Joe. Oh the the irony of that, Carlos, because Patrick Head once said drivers, they're like light bulbs. You take one out, you put another one in. But it's very different. The the new regime is so different, isn't it? I think it's always been different. Um to to di every driver is different and I understand that There will be some drivers that you the car is pretty much perfect already when you jump in and you just need to drive it and you don't need to worry too much about things.

But at least my dad has always told me that there's tense, extra tense in the work and dedication of wanting to go a bit beyond that, of just driving a car. And it was his formula for success. He's one of the most successful. racing drivers ever in Rally and obviously as his son I was always gonna carry over that that methodology of work which

Luckily I think I also have the talent to fill things in the car that can help me guide a bit the team. But it's the methodology for me that is the the key behind what my dad has always educated me. You've described Williams as your life's work. What do you mean by that? I said life project. A life project I say it because as you said at the beginning of the interview, I'm thirty one years old now.

and I feel I can enter now a um let's say the next few years of my career with a very clear target in mind which is try and help this team and go back to the front of the field and if you ask me in three four years time where i would like to be i'd say ideally fighting for a championship with williams Yeah, being thirty one there's nothing that would make me happier than putting all my effort, as you say, I'm in m close to my peak of my career, than using the peak of my career to bring back

uh one of the greatest teams in F one back to the top and if we manage to achieve that I'll look back being very, very proud for sure. You had plenty of options at the end of twenty twenty four. You chose Williams. Has it lived up to expectations, both on track and off track in terms of where it's at with the rebuild process, with the infrastructure I think my expectations were always relatively realistic because

James and his team have always been quite honest, open and frank and realistic with me. So let's say I think my... I managed to control my expectations and my expections I would say of 2025 were controlled but a bit low and i would say we've exceeded them in 2025 and 26 is dbc let's see how we go this year Do you think there is a comparison to be made with McLaren?

You raced there for a couple of years. But back in twenty seventeen, McLaren finished, I think, second last in the constructors' championship, and we know what they've done in the last couple of years. Do you think Williams is on a similar journey, a similar trajectory to McLaren? I think every team and every journey is completely different. But the stage that I think I found Williams in 2025, 26, I would say it's a very similar journey to where I found McLaren in 2019-2020.

I don't know how long it will take Williams compared to McLaren. Still, what McLaren has done of becoming world champions eventually is an extremely difficult task that deserves somewhere a bit of a case study to know exactly how they managed to do it. Because even if Williams

can become more competitive through the next few years then to win is another step that is even more difficult. So congratulations to McLaren for for that. But yeah I would say Williams is in a similar uh point uh from where we were in nineteen.

And you could see the championship potential at McLaren when you were there. Yes, I could see I remember uh leaving McLaren to go to Ferrari. Obviously when I left McLaren to to go to Ferrari when Ferrari puts an offer on the table it's r very difficult not to say no. And and my dream was always to be also a a Ferrari driver.

I think we're living McLaren and this team is actually a very good race team. Like these people are gonna go up like they're gonna keep climbing because I know how good Andrea Stella is. I know how good Pit Podromo is.

I remember leaving that team and n having two, three or four names that if I could have taken them with me to to to Ferrari I could I I for sure would have taken them because I knew they were doing things well and um and they were honestly really really, really good people that I enjoyed a lot working with them. Did you ever look over your shoulder last year and think, Could it be me? no and i tell you why not and because

First of all, in twenty twenty-one in February I achieved my first podiums of my career. I think I did three podiums at the time. In twenty twenty-two I won my first races.

And if you remember well, twenty twenty three, while I was still winning races in Ferrari, McLaren were still almost dead last in the qualifying and the race of of Bahrain and what I would have thought back then like how can I I would be winning races with Ferrari like and I think it was the right thing to do at the right time

And the only thing I feel is happiness for the team that still, when they were on their way up, they had a bit of a bleep in 22 and 23. And then they went back to win a year later the Constructors' Championship in 24. and become world champions drivers in twenty five with a good friend of mine mine landown and I just feel I feel honestly happy for them. I don't feel any any regrets.

Just while we're talking about McLaren, Lando, how have you seen him grow as a driver in the last few years? I think Lando has been always quick since the day he became an F1 driver. I think turning heads already with his with his lap times in testing and and how quick he was in nineteen and twenty when I was his teammate in Quali. I think he's just become a bit more of an all runner uh through through the n last six years.

and um he's become uh more championship material and then he confirmed it in in twenty five with a very strong second part of the season. I think fair play to him, I think he did it his way. It's Lando. Lando's way. You can still beat him at golf, right? Well let's talk about twenty twenty six now. I mean, it feels like a a complete change for everybody. In what areas is your job different in the cockpit? We just need to worry about maybe carrying uh one or two gears down compared to last year.

Downshifting as early as we can and not not very different from that. Um and the find ways to waste a little bit less energy. But honestly the our job is not as different. It's just how different it feels. While you do that, it feels completely different. And and you just have to to adapt to how different it feels. The starts are very different.

And the the race ability of the car is gonna be very different. But this until we don't go racing, we I will not be able to tell you how how different it is. What aspect feels most different to you? Is it the narrower tires? Is it the lack of or less ground effect? Is it the increase in electrical energy?

For me is the drivability of the electrical energy and and the the combustion engine itself. I don't know how much horsepower we have, but for those few seconds that we have three hundred fifty kilowatts plus all the ice. internal combustion engine flat out.

It's a rocket ship. For three or four seconds it's a rocket ship, then it starts ja se aloittaa ja se aloittaa, mutta se aloittaa yhdessä 1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1.50-1

And um it feels incredible. For those three or four seconds feels incredible. Then you hit the brakes and everything we need to let's say fine tune it still because um I've been in this board for long enough. So I know how much everyone is gonna evolve then. How how it will get sorted out. It kind of reminds me of when Pirelli came in as the saltyre supplier. It took everyone a while to work out how best to get the maximum out of them.

That's the beauty of Formula One. We have so many smart, clever people. It will get better. Already this second test it will be better than with four days that we've given homework to factory engine manufacturers in four days they will come up with solutions and they will put us here something that is better. in two weeks for Melbourne it will be even better. And in six months it will be much better. And then in two years I cannot tell you. That's but that's the beauty of of Formula One.

The chassis themselves, the cars are narrower, shorter, etcetera. Aesthetically I think they look fantastic. I agree with you. What do they like to drive? To drive are actually not that different to last year. It's like taking the cars of last year and taking away I don't know how to explain to people, but it's like sixty to a hundred points of downfall. to last year and with a little bit better ride because you can run a little bit softer than last year because of not having ground effect.

It's not that different. It's just running on the Monza wings of last year, but in Bahrain. So if I said do they feel more like a twenty twenty one car, pre ground effect? Not because the 21 car had even more downforce than the 25 car. Or let's say downforce in different places. But... It's like a twenty one car, let's say, with a lot less downforce. I'm getting it.

between a 21 and a 22 car with less downforce yeah it's it's just in the middle it's like it's not a 21 it's not a 22 generation it's like in the middle of the two And then you reduce downforce. And then you take away drivability. And you put turbo lag and you put other different things that make your life very complicated. Which is kind of what it should be. I don't complain about being complicated.

And then especially I'm happy to also challenge the engineers to make it better because that's that's what they're gonna do.

What about the racing on a Sunday afternoon? Do you think how how's that gonna play out, you know, with no D R S now? Are you gonna be able to control your pursuers like you did in Singapore when you won the race, for example? I don't think so. I need to come up with a new solution to that. But let me say the key of these regulations and my recommendation right now to FIA and FOM would be to...

stay open minded with the way we use the overtake mode. Because the solution that we might have come up now for Bahrain might be the right one, but maybe for a different circuit is a bit different. And if we wanna make racing good and still put on a good show, we might need to adapt and learn from these regulations because I don't even think FIA, FOM know how much overtake mode to put for each track.

how difficult it's gonna be to follow or not follow with these recs. So I think we need to as a sport, we need to stay very open minded to adapt those regulations to what we start seeing on the first few races. Is there one particular kind of driver that will excel with these cars? I think the people who have been sim racing since they were in short trousers, spare mental I mean, you've all got spare mental capacity behind the wheel, so The leveling Formula 1 nowadays is so high.

I honestly think the twenty drivers, twenty two drivers are extremely talented. We will all find a way. Like there's not enough difference in talent across the whole grid to tell you. There's gonna be few guys that sort it out better. Maybe there's a few guys that get it a bit earlier or a bit later than others. but we will all find out the best way to drive it. That's why when last week I started seeing journalists analyzing the drivers that have adapted the quickest to do these regulations.

So much. It's like, come on. You don't even know what we're testing. You don't even know what we're doing. Um, you don't even know if our PUs are allowing us to do what all the drivers are allowed to do. Like it's it's too early. Come down, give us a few days of testing and This episode is sponsored by Honda. Since its first Formula One victory in the 1965 Mexico Grand Prix, Honda has always taken what's learned on the track and used it to build better cars for everyone.

From pushing limits in F1 to engineering the next generation of hybrids like the Prelude Hybrid and Civic Sedan Hybrid, Honda proves that racing doesn't just inspire innovation, it drives it. And that idea of taking lessons from the racetrack and applying them to road cars has always been a part of Honda's DNS.

Decades of engineering in the demanding world of Formula One have helped shape the performance and efficiency you see in Honda's road cars today. And now that same thinking is shaping the next generation of hybrids as well. Cars like the 2026 Prelude Hybrid and Civic Hybrid show that electrification can be both efficient and genuinely fun to drive.

The 2026 Prelude Hybrid and Civic Sedan Hybrid are engineered for fun, from the racetrack to your driveway. Learn more about the Prelude and Civic and the latest innovations at Honda.com. This episode is sponsored by Honda. Since its first Formula One victory in the 1965 Mexico Grand Prix, Honda has always taken what's learned on the track and used it to build better cars for everyone.

From pushing limits in F1 to engineering the next generation of hybrids like the Prelude Hybrid and Civic Sedan Hybrid, Honda proves that racing doesn't just inspire innovation, it drives it. And that idea of taking lessons from the racetrack and applying them to road cars has always been a part of Honda's DNA.

Decades of engineering in the demanding world of Formula One have helped shape the performance and efficiency you see in Honda's road cars today. And now that same thinking is shaping the next generation of hybrids as well. Cars like the 2026 Prelude Hybrid and Civic Hybrid show that electrification can be both efficient and genuinely fun to drive.

The 2026 Prelude Hybrid and Civic Sedan Hybrid are engineered for fun, from the racetrack to your driveway. Learn more about the Prelude and Civic and the latest innovations at Honda.com.

Have you watched the car's track side? I have, yeah. What did you think? I think there's one of the biggest differences I've seen trackside ever. You can close your eyes and you can hear who's coming rather than Having to see which car is coming. Engine note or just the way it's being driven? Because the engine and the two drivers we end up doing the same because we are not stupid. If we see your teammate doing something that works, you copy it.

and if he sees you doing something with your car o with your engine, it it works. Same case is Mercedes engines. If I see George or Lando doing Lando has a different gearbox but Alpine and Mercedes and me doing certain gear I'm gonna kopy Alpin and Mercedes and vice versa. So you can clearly tell if it's a Mercedes Gearbox kaming. if it's a McLaren gearbox, or if it's a Red Bull, or if it's a Ferrari, if it's an Audi, or if it's a Honda.

And this I would say a year ago, you close your eyes, you wouldn't be able to differentiate who's coming. And now you when they approach turn ten You can just, after two minutes, you understand who's coming. It feels like then that there's more capacity for racing if people are doing different things.

of the new set of regulations is gonna be integrating driver, gearbox, and driveability all together. It's not saying we need to do it this way and the driver needs to adapt or we need to do it that way. The driver wants to do it this way. you need to adapt. I think it's how do we all agree in one thing and commit to it. And and do you all agree i in one trajectory? Not yet. We need to find which solution and which direction is right and now the development war will start soon.

You and Alex Albon, your teammate, are are you in agreement as to the way forward? I would say so, but it's unfortunately for Alex and me we have a higher power which is M G P and HP P which will decide a bit the direction to go.

But if we can influence that, my opinion, HPP and MGP should listen also to what Alex and I have to say to experience clever or you could say we like thinking also and coming up with good solutions and they should use use us to to find the right way because it's it's like having four drivers in your team not only two It feels like it's a good thing that James Vowels has spent so much time at Mercedes in the past. He he knows the way they work, he knows who to speak to there.

I think, honestly, if there's one time to be a bit closer and united to develop this PU on this... gear shifts is is now more than ever. And then as we all become more competitive and everything is sorted and drivability and everything else is is ready to go. And it's like last year that we didn't even think about them. We didn't even report anything because it was perfect.

then everyone, every man for himself or everything for themselves. But now that we need time to develop, I think the the m all less guys that use a bit the same PU, the same systems, the same gearbox, we we need to we need to help each other because there's a lot of work and when i say a lot of work is a lot of work to do

And does it help in this instance that your team principal is also an engineer or in the conversations he can have at Brixworth. Yeah, mom. In general, James likes being involved and it's great to have a team principal that also understands. He likes driving himself, so when you talk to him about a downshift or when you talk to him about drivability, he gets it.

an amateur but a driver himself and um and he he likes it. He's also an engineer, so he's a bit of a hybrid, you know, between driver and engineer. More of an engineer, let's say, but also a bit of a driver and I think it's it's always uh cool sharing a good conversation with him. race in Abu Dhabi at the end of last year. He did a endurance race, didn't he? Was it a McLaren? I think it was a McLaren.

Oh we had just been there driving a Formula One but an F one is so different for a G T car that um I couldn't give him much advice. Keep off the curve at turn twelve or whatever. Uh because with a GT you can stay on the curve compared to an F one. So um I would no, the only thing I asked to him is keep me posted. Like keep sending me updates of how you're doing.

And uh anything you need, here we are. Uh both Alex and we have a group with him. And yeah, and he kept sending us updates of how he was he did great, I think, so. I think he did, yeah. Yeah, podium. I'd love to know what you put on that WhatsApp group, but that's probably a a different conversation. How much of it's serious, how much of it is light?

Uh for that you will need to pay to have access. Look, tell me a little bit more about James. Um he tried so hard to get you to join his team. He talked about the courting process and the the late night dinners and all that sort of stuff. A bit exaggerated by Netflix, by the way. This whole courting thing. It's not like we were flirting too much. It was just a normal. I want you. I want you to. You need me. Yes. Let's see how we can get to a. Don't agreement here.

But I mean J V is only what is he, three years into the role. Have you been impressed by him? No, not impressed because since the day that he was strategist in Mercedes, When he was doing all these videos analizing, explaining the estrategias of Mercedes, I don't know if you remember, Nico versus Luis donde And he has that ability to explain it in layman's terms.

he was quick and he was smart and i had high expectations about the james in that sense and i can only tell you is How does he compare to your previous team principals like Fred Vassar at Ferrari or Zack and Andrea. I don't like comparing. I think everything principle has its great things and obviously the things that you like a bit less. So I'm not going to sit here and compare them and give you a comparison. I can just tell you.

James is a great team principal, uh someone I'm really enjoy working with and as I said, a very good hybrid between engineer, team manager, and a bit of driver, that that three-way combination. Tämä on sen jälkeen, kun haluaa, kun haluaa, kun haluaa, kun haluaa, kun haluaa, kun haluaa, kun haluaa, kun haluaa, kun haluaa, kun haluaa, kun haluaa. and driver relationship, very good to have. Post Formula One career as a driver, do you see yourself in that role? Could you do it?

I've been thinking about it. whether I would like a a role like that. Mm No sé. No sé. No sé dónde estaré en la vida. There's a few things, no, like going to live to Oxford, nothing against Oxford, but moving away to to the UK with your whole family, if I have a family and kids by then and

nine to six job that I've never had in my life. For example, I'm a racing driver. I've never had to go to an office or anything like that. I don't know if I would be up for that or ready to d to that. Like I know that when I retire around the forties I'm gonna have a Still another forty good years in me. So wha how am I gonna use those forty years? Will you stay racing? Oh for sure. You're gonna raise something. You won't do a Nico Rosberg and just no

No, I'm a racer. I'm a racer. I'm competitive, as I said before. I like winning at anything I do. I will do a category that I think I can win. Yeah. You know, like Rubens Barrichello still actually I don't know if he did it last year, but he was doing the karting world championships well into his late forties. What a legend. Um I could see Carlos Sainz doing that. I don't know. I will I will do I will race. I don't know if it will be Le Mans, it would be Dakar, or it will be um

I don't know. I by then maybe there's other categories that are attractive, but I will I think I will stay racing. Something. Something that keeps me active. I like what my dad does. That he's sixty three maybe it's too much but i like how he post rallying or rally championship he

extended his career and that kept him fit as a sixty three year old I've haven't seen a sixty three year old more hungry, more fit, with so much dedication towards his sport that keeps him waking up every morning at six AM and still having something to work to work. And I think even for your kids, me as his son, seeing that growing up has given me a great example to follow. Because I see someone that is 50, 60, still going at it. I'm not surprised. Once a competitor, always a competitor, right?

Yeah. He's like that, you'll be like that. But but back to team principle,'cause you have the bandwidth, don't you? That's what people say. To tick all the boxes that you need. And damn it, how many languages do you speak? Υπότιτλοι AUTHORWAVE Only three. It's not like I'm multilingual here, but The answer is I don't know. Have I thought about it? Yes. But I don't know. Um I don't know what you're trying to get from here, from this Do I think I would do a good team principle? I don't know.

Saints Grand Prix? Have your own team. No, I think that's a mess. That's too much. I don't know if the team principal role is the right one for me. But I think I could have a very good influence in other things in in a Formula One team. I think knowing what I know and how to manage drivers and how to manage a team of engineers

That I think I could find a role or something. I don't know if Team Principal is the role that I would enjoy or that I would extract the most out of me. Like for that I remain open to find potential solution and then that has to come after i like being a racing driver and And I would like being a racing driver by then.

Well you've said forty, so that's that gives you another ten years. Couple more things, if I may, just before we end. Fame. I wanted to ask you how you deal with that. What kind of requests you get? Because Formula One has gone stratospheric in the last five, six years. How has your life changed? I'm gonna be honest with this answer. I think fame is something that consumes you a little bit. Like it's it's something that

At the beginning it's great and once you become famous and an F1 driver, everything is actually cool to be famous at the beginning. But then the more you become famous and the more time you spend being famous, the more exposed you are and the more time you've spent exposed and the less you like it in in that in that sense,¿no? And it's something that I'm dealing with, let's say Every year a bit worse. Like and and and this is me being very open with you, like

Or that is also that we are becoming more famous as my career has continued,¿no? Because F one is has been exponentially getting you're getting more and more famous so

Without never crossing the boundaries of obviously always being well-mannered, educated to anyone who comes to me. It is true that more and more often it's something that... I suffer a bit more from struggle, let's say is the Does a day go by when you don't get asked for a photograph or a request come in or is that just the reality every single day yeah every single day if i leave home pretty much every single day which is Are you becoming more in insular as a result? Oh yeah.

yeah yeah i i think i do i do or i avoid busy places or Yeah. Maybe I'm an introvert and I don't like maybe there's other people that love it and the more famous they become, the more they are out there. Carlos. No, I'm not like that. I wonder where you could go where you're not recognised. I saw a great clip with Rowan Atkinson, you know Mr Bean, and he said he delayed releasing Mr Bean in Italy because he liked going on holiday in Italy and he didn't want to Yeah.

Yes. I'm wondering if there's any way you can go where you're You're not recognizable. No, the only thing I've become is a bit more demanding with a fan in a way where I like hearing at least a please or a do you mind? You know, like there's a lot of... young generation nowadays that they don't even ask. They are with the phone like this. Ha ha Carlos. And it's like

Come on. Like where's the m a bit of manners or or the do you mind or can you please or and the guy that say comes or goes and shake your hand and say Carlos, I'm a huge fan of you, just wanted to shake your hand. I love that guy. I like I offer him, Do you want a picture? You know, like because you're you're actually a genuine

fun and a genuine I like you, I love you and shake my hand, you know. But the social media generation is has changed everything so much. Before it used to be an autograph, I don't know, in the time of my dad. You would carry a pen, I guess, and sign, no? But how many times did that clip from the F one movie go around? You know when the girl asked in the nightclub. Uh can you introduce me to Carlos Sainz, right? How many times have I seen that? Ah, um... I could send it quite a few times. And

I enjoyed it. I didn't enjoy it when we were all in the cinema watching it. Everyone turned and looked at me like that. I don't know how many people see this, just be aware that you are interrupting someone's privacy.

especially the younger generation that I think are the ones that take it for granted that a picture is for free and a selfie is a must. At least I some message I think more to the younger generation of It's not normal to to go and assist be nice, be polite and that's um That's the only message I guess I use this moment for.

Well, Carlos, it's been wonderful to have you on the show again. Thank you. Uh two last questions. Who's going to be the world champion in twenty twenty six? I'll say two names, okay? George Russell or Max. Can I ask you to explain that? No. But you think they're the favourites. I mean that that is a huge statement about Red Bull given that they've got the power trains. From what I've seen in Bahrain three days of testing. And what would success look like for you and Williams this year?

Progress. Keep showing progress. Doesn't matter which area. We need to progress in every area. I'm not gonna look too much at the results because if there's a year that is difficult for results and to judge where everyone is is gonna be this one. Progress. Progress in every area. Carlos, great to have you on the show. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you.

Carlos never disappoints, does he? We always have interesting and engaging conversations, and this one was no different. While the start of the season Look tough for Williams. To see how the team and Carlos can turn things around. And looking further ahead, much further ahead, what do you reckon to Carlos Science team print? He's one of those people who'll be good at whatever he turns his mind to. Thanks for your time, Carlos. And good luck in twenty twenty six.

Now a few notices before I go, remember that you can watch F1 be on the grid on the F1 YouTube channel. Our other podcasts, F One Nation and F one Explains, are A new season as well. The shows are teaming up for this year, so make sure you're subscribed to the F1 Nation podcast feed to get all the latest episodes. Thanks for listening. I'll be back next week with another great guest from the world of Formula One. F1 Beyond the Grid is produced by Formula One and Audio Boom Studio.

Until next time, keep it flat out.