FTM 1998 Month Rewind: VELVET GOLDMINE

Thank you. Hey everybody, welcome again to F This Movie, the official podcast of FThisMovie.com. Movie love for movie lovers. My name is Patrick Bromley and I'm super excited for this week's show because we're talking about 1998's... velvet gold mine just a few weeks shy of its 25th anniversary. I am joined for this very special discussion by Rosalie Lewis. Hey, Rosalie. Hey, Patrick. How are you? I'm good. I'm realizing I really messed up, though.

How so? Well, you're wearing a T-shirt for this podcast that says a film by Todd Haynes. I watched all Todd Phillips movies in preparation. Oh, no, no problem. We can pivot to school for scoundrels. I am a scoundrel. I didn't even have to go to school for it. The brilliance of Joker. Oh, boy. We're in trouble. No, but in seriousness.

I'm very excited to be on the show and talk about a really fantastic movie. I like this movie a lot. And I was thinking about doing a podcast on it. And then I was like, well, Rosalie's like a huge music fan, a huge Bowie fan. So you can speak to a lot of stuff. that I probably can't. Well, I'm not a kiss aficionado, so we're missing that element. There's no kiss in the movie. There's no kiss anywhere in this movie. There's kissing, just no kiss.

I know. Boys kiss. Very exciting. Apparently they can do that now. So progressive. I know. Hey, Rosalie. Hi, Patrick. Have you seen anything good lately? You know? I have. And I'm not just talking about Hideous Houses on Hulu, which is a 2012 A&E show. This is not a real thing. It is. And you're watching it? Well, we all have our flaws.

I haven't finished Ink Master. I'm still working my way through. Look at you. You're right. You know, sometimes you just need to relax the mind. I hear you. I don't have any good go-tos right now for that. specific mode is not on right now it's not on so what am i supposed to watch i know when i'm working on other stuff all right i don't know hideous houses is gonna do it but uh all right well uh thankfully also seen some other things. Okay, good.

The first one I'll talk about is from the 70s. I think 77. They made movies then? That's what I've heard. I wasn't alive, but we may have all been retconned into believing it. I was alive in 77. I was born in 77. You're an old man. Yes, I know. We've established this. I was not born for four more years. So the first movie I want to talk about is Looking for Mr. Goodbar. Oh, wow. How did you see this?

Through nefarious means probably. Someone I know who works at a library has like a server full of movies and I occasionally go there to watch movies that I can't find elsewhere. It's the only way to see it now because it is out of circulation on home video. My understanding is that that's because of the music rights. And I now understand why, because there's a lot of good music. Shouldn't they replace all of the songs with like library music?

Perhaps. But it might not be the same. But, I mean, if you've seen WKRP Cincinnati, like, you know, the replacement songs are never quite as good. Oh, did they do that? Yeah. Oh, like for the DVDs? Yeah. Oh, no kidding. Not as good. No. bar is a fantastic movie and the version I saw was one that included the intro from TCM by Ben Mankiewicz which was interesting so he talked a little bit about the historical context of the movie which unfortunately did give away

the ending of the movie which i wouldn't have otherwise known but that's okay you can't do that in your opening i mean maybe he assumed his audience is older and like lived through it i'm not sure because it is based on something that sort of really happened i guess sure um It was a fantastic Diane Keaton performance. So the basic story is that Diane Keaton is a teacher by day. She teaches.

Kids who, you know, she teaches them in sign language, like teaches them to speak. And she is also kind of living at home and trying to like get out from under her parents a little bit. They're kind of overbearing, compare her constantly to her sister. She kind of discovers a nightlife of like she goes out to bars. She meets guys. You know, she has sex. A revolutionary concept, I guess. She gets good barred. She does get good barred by one of the people she gets good barred by.

Richard Gere, who is unbelievable in this movie. Like, I was not prepared. And I've seen American Gigolo, but I was still not prepared. He's really wild in this. It's so weird because Richard Gere... Kind of comes on my radar in Pretty Woman in 1990. And everything from Pretty Woman forward is like kind of sleepy gear. Like he's in a different mode. And then you go back and watch his 70s and 80s stuff.

And he's like electric. He's so different than he is in Pretty Woman. He was not always a businessman, guys. No, not always. He used to like, you know. Be very in shape and not afraid to show it. And like do little knife dances and things. Right. It's really.

I mean, it's a little unhinged, but it's also very entertaining to watch. Did you ever see the Breathless remake? So I actually just started watching it. Okay. That's good gear. Yeah, I do want to continue it. It was really good. Yeah. I just... Ran out of time. But I was very inspired. Yes. To get into early gear. Good gear. Should I see Officer and a Gentleman or is that sleepy gear? I don't love it. It's not sleepy gear, but I don't. Love it. It's in a different gear than the other gears.

Please start a regular column called A Different Gear. Oh, I should. Where you write about different Richard Gere movies. I should. That sounds fun. I'm into it. Internal Affairs might be the last like. punk rock richard gear performance and that's like 1992 so that's the same year as as 1990 as well i should say same year as pretty woman but since then he's just been kind of yeah sleepy businessman sleepy lawyer yeah

Maybe he needs like a sexy beast kind of movie to come back. You know what I mean? For sure. Like I could see him being that sleazy older dude really, really well. Yeah. He could be that gangster guy. I think he could. So. I just watched Intersection with Richard Gere. What is that from?

Like 93, maybe? It's like him and Sharon Stone and Lolita Davidovich. And it was definitely billed as like a post-Basic Instinct erotic thriller. Sure. It's not at all. It's just like a drama about... three people trying to figure their shit out interesting it's not great and he's sleepy gear sure yeah so um if you for some reason have access to watch looking for mr good bar i do recommend it have you seen it

So I saw it when I was probably in eighth grade. Oh, that's the perfect time to see a movie like this. I was like, I hear this movie is good. And my mom let me rent it from the video store. She was probably like, it's Diane Keaton. What could go wrong? I was. Far too young. Sure. Not for the subject matter or whatever, but just to appreciate it. Yeah. Like any 70s movie I saw before I was like a junior in high school was kind of wasted on me. Yeah.

So I would love to see it again as an adult or an old man, as you say. For sure. Yeah. Well, I think you would appreciate it even more now. I hope so. Yeah. The next one I will talk about is from the 90s, and that's a little movie called Pusher by Nicholas Winding Refn. It's his first. It's a crime movie. I was watching it in hopes that it would be kind of a noir-vember-y movie. And it's not not noir, but I would say it's just more of like a...

A crime film than a noir, I guess, in my mind. And it's a fine line. But it was very interesting. I mean, it felt very like proto Guy Ritchie a little bit. You're making a face as if that's a bad thing. I don't know. Maybe it's not a great, great movie, but I found it pretty entertaining and it's very different. I've never seen it. When you said Proto Guy Ritchie, it did not sell me. Okay, I'm not selling it well then.

But I don't think – I think for me it was interesting to see, number one, a movie set in Denmark that's about crime because, like, I don't really know anything about that world. But it's, like, an interesting underworld. It's – Definitely a movie about people that are kind of like inept at crime, which I think is why I would consider it sort of like that Guy Ritchie thing. Yeah, that makes sense. It's very talky. Some people...

I was reading reviews afterwards and some people found it to be a little anti-women. I think the characters are definitely misogynist, but I don't think the movie necessarily is. Okay. I mean, I haven't seen any evidence that Nicholas Winding Ruffin is or isn't a misogynist, but I found it not.

off-putting for me personally maybe other people would find it different um Mads Mikkelsen is in it and he plays like this he kind of looks like a dirtbag like skinheady guy with like a tattoo on the back of his head and he's bald and he's like almost

recognizable so that's really fun okay um i really wanted to follow his character more but he's not in the movie like he's not the lead in the movie he's more of a supporting role okay um but my understanding is that pusher two because there's three of these pusher two he's the main character So I'm interested to watch that. But it's not like neon or stylized the way that.

future Winding Refn movies are. Got it. Quite a far cry from Drive. Don't go in expecting Drive. It's definitely not that. That's true of most of his other movies. Yeah, but it's not like Neon Demon. It's not like... Neon Demon has similarities. Yeah, I mean... There's one scene in a club that's got some flashing lights and that's the only flicker, pun intended, of where he would go stylistically. But there's a lot of grittiness and I think...

What he does really well in this movie is like establish who the characters are and kind of what their motivations are and gives us like morally conflicted characters, which is consistent with his other movies. Was it set out to be a trilogy? Like when he... made the first one did he know he was making two more do you know i don't know for sure my understanding is that was a very big popular movie when it came out like in its home country

And that there were even like remakes in other languages, which I didn't know. So I guess it was just like a big... Deal and like supposedly change the style of like street wear and stuff like that to be like the character. So, I mean, Denmark's probably not like a huge country. So maybe that isn't as big of a deal as like changing it in, you know. Sure. Like somewhere else, but still pretty influential and cool. I don't know. Right on. Yeah, I enjoyed it.

Was that through the same nefarious means? No, this was on the Canopy app. Oh, okay. Nice. Like I said, I almost threw it in my article, but that's a bonus one. I just watched something on Canopy and now I can't remember what. Oh, it was the Rolling Stones documentary. Oh, nice. I need to see that. It's okay. It's just like concert film. Sure. But it's worth watching. It seems like a good concert to virtually go to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're doing that now, so. Right, exactly.

And then the next one is from way further back, and it is a true noir, and that is The Fallen Idol. which is a Carol Reed film that is, I decided to like start and end my Noirvember with Carol Reed because I watched The Third Man to start it off. Carol Reed, of course, famous for voicing Big Bird. Sure. Yeah. No, I think that's Carol.

Spinny. Spinny. I almost said Janney, but that's not it. Okay. That's Allison Janney. Allison Janney is famous for winning an Oscar. Yeah. And being on the West Wing. Which I started watching. She's always going to be CJ to me. I couldn't get into the West Wing. I tried. We watched like half of the first season and it's like too much Aaron Sorkin for me. Okay. Well, that's okay.

We can still be friends. All right. Thank you. So The Fallen Idol is basically it's a story told from like a kid's perspective. This little boy whose parents work for the British consulate. So they're not around very much. And so he's very good.

friends with the butler named Baines who like keeps him entertained and Baines's wife who's like the the female head of the household does not like the kid at all so they don't get along and then One day, like, the little kid happens to follow Baines out to... garden and he sees him talking to a woman and he thinks that the woman is his niece but of course that's not the case like it's uh an interesting development so um

Later on, certain events transpire that require the kid to like maybe he thinks he's speaking up to defend Baines, but he's really making things worse. And Baines ends up implicated for a murder. And so it's a very interesting, like...

well-told story, and it's very suspenseful because you're like, how is this kid going to mess up this dude's life? And it's like his hero, but he's trying to defend his hero just making things worse because he's lying when he should just tell the truth. So anyways, I really... liked it um and i would definitely recommend for any fans of noir or carol reed i think it's a lesser known one than his others yeah i'm not aware of it at all yeah is that on canopy as well um

It might be. I think I watched it on the Criterion channel, but to be honest with you, I could be getting them confused. There's a lot of streaming services out there, and unfortunately, I subscribe to many of them. We have too many. It might have been Amazon Prime. I can't recall. idol from 1948 streaming on what indie plex it wasn't that flicks fling

I once subscribed to Flixfling and then they wouldn't let me unsubscribe. So don't do that. Do you own a copy of the phone? I don't. Oh, you know what it was? I signed up for like this BFI channel on Amazon Prime. And it was like a free seven days and I'll probably forget to cancel it. paying $5.99 a month for the rest of my life.

So, yeah. I promise I'm almost done, but I have like three more to talk about. No, keep going. Okay. So the next one actually is a Todd Haynes picture, and I've been wanting to see it for a long time. Love it. And that is Safe. Ah, yes. Have you seen Safe? I have seen Safe, and I just did a rewatch of almost all of his movies. Nice.

Within the last month or so, so I just rewatched it as well. This one has just been on my list forever, and I don't know why I never sought it out before, but it was very rewarding. Yeah.

isolating movie i'm kind of glad i didn't watch it during the pandemic i think a lot of people did yeah so if you're not familiar with the story behind it essentially it's about this you know suburban housewife uh played by julianne moore who is of course as a always wonderful yes and one of many collaborations the two of those would have um and she starts to just have these random illness symptoms where she'll like have a coughing fit or she'll have trouble breathing

Or she'll have what seems like maybe a panic attack that turns into like a seizure where she's like bleeding. And like her husband at first is just really annoyed because he thinks she's like faking it, I think, to get out of sex, which I mean. You know, maybe, but she seemed to legitly want to get good. No, she doesn't want to get good. I mean, you know.

Who among us? But he's mad that she's had headaches for multiple days in a row. And she's like, no, I really do. And she goes to the doctor and the doctor's like, you're fine. Maybe go see a shrink. And it's like, OK, here we go down the Groundhog Day rabbit hole. Right.

But she ends up seeing a flyer at her health club that's like, are you allergic to the 20th century? And it talks about how people have like environmental illnesses and they're allergic to the chemicals we use. And so she starts to think maybe this is her. And she starts going to like meetings about it. And eventually, maybe this is a slight spoiler, but I don't think it's that.

much of a spoiler, like joins a community that's supposed to support people and the community maybe is helping people or maybe is a little culty or maybe both. But I just thought it was a really interesting story that I know has a lot of... of metaphorical value thinking about like the AIDS crisis, but also just about how we tend to like isolate people that we perceive as having illnesses or even like.

psychological differences from us um and how difficult it can be to live with that chronic kind of illness whether it's you know depression or something else um and not really feel like anybody can relate to you. And even when she's in the cold place, like, they have a lot of self-help stuff, but that just sort of points it inward and makes it seem like it's your fault that you have this, right? And so, yeah, I felt like it was a very...

Sad but also beautifully told story. Yeah. I just was reading something and we'll come back to this idea of like Todd Haynes movies being funny when you're not sure if they're being funny. Yeah. But somebody said like, oh, one thing I forgot about safe is how funny it is. Yeah.

And I don't know if I find it that funny. Well, there are moments. Okay, so I did laugh a lot when she was complaining about how the black couch doesn't match anything in the house. And like, we've got to send it back and get the teal couch. And as somebody who has a teal couch at my home. I did enjoy that part quite a bit. There were a few moments here and there, but overall I would say this one was a little more...

Maybe if I watch it again, I'd see more of the satire in it. Yeah, I guess maybe I'm due for another viewing as well because I wasn't looking for it. I've always just found it to be not. I don't want to call it a cold movie as like a pejorative, but it is a little bit of a cold movie by design because it is about removal and isolation. Right.

And I wasn't finding a lot of humor in it, but maybe I'm mistaken. Yes, certainly some of the stuff when she's like suburban housewife is like goofing on that whole lifestyle. Right. Totally. And I mean, I do think the fact that like for a good portion of the beginning of it, you don't even see the husband really. You only see stuff from her perspective. So that I found kind of entertaining.

I saw a Letterboxd review that was like, this movie is about how living with men gives you a rash. And that did make me laugh a little bit. But I don't think that's really what it's about. I was kind of like intrigued slash perplexed by, you know, how the cover of the movie, the cover image is that guy in like the suit that's like walking around in the middle of the wasteland. And he's the guy that they reference in the movie as like, he's just scared of everything.

He doesn't even want to walk. I was trying to figure out if that was meant to be funny or sad or provocative in some way because I didn't quite pick up on maybe what he – Although I do know people that are like extremely into like homeopathic medicine and stuff like that. And maybe it's just like this is another person on the fringes that is too out there even for his own out there community.

Not knowing exactly what something is supposed to symbolize is a common thread in my relationship with Todd Haynes movies. Yeah. There's like... I will find myself responding to things that I just absolutely love and not being able to articulate why. And Veligo Mine is like that. And even back in 2007. My favorite movie of that year in 2007 was I'm Not There. And I.

I'm not like the biggest Bob Dylan fan and I knew very little about his life, but I just responded to it. And I'm like, I probably don't get most of this movie, but I'm responding to something. Yeah, that's a movie I really want to go back to. I wish I'd had more time to watch. And like after I watched Safe, I was like, I want to watch all of the Todd Haynes movies today. I love this plan. It was yesterday, so I didn't have time to watch them all.

I still haven't seen Far From Heaven, which I know I'd probably love. Oh my gosh, is it good? I know, I'm sure it is. And I really want to see that. And I do love Douglas Sirk movies. Yes, you will love Far From Heaven, which apparently... Apparently it's only streaming on Starz. Carol is on Netflix, I know. Yes, Carol is on Netflix. It's in their Christmas movies section, which is appropriate. And I've only seen Carol once. It was in the theater.

Poison is on Canopy and on Prime. Ooh, okay. That's his first movie. That's his first one, which I haven't seen either. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I'm very excited to like dive back into his filmography because Seeing Safe, it was one of those movies where it's like an unlocking experience. I think I mentioned something.

about this maybe on one of my social media yesterday but i was like now that i've seen this movie it just makes me want to watch movies but then i also feel like what if they the rest of them are just disappointing because this is so so good right But it's the kind of movie that gets you fired up. And I think that's something that is common with Todd Haynes for me. Yeah.

the way it looks, the ideas behind it, the complexity of the characters. Like it gets me really fired up about what movies can be and what they can do. Nice. And not. All movies inspire that these days. So I was really inspired by it. It was really, really good. School for Scoundrels. You know. And Joker, of course. And The Hangover.

Oh, the hangover. I forgot the trilogy, the hangover trilogy. There's the pusher trilogy and then the hangover trilogy, which is our pusher trilogy. Sure. Yeah. It pushed me anyway, away from the theater. Take that Todd Phillips. Yeah. Okay, so the last movie, not really, because I'm going to talk about one more, but then you're going to talk about it. So maybe I'll wait for you to talk about it. The last movie I'll talk about that's not that one, I'm just being confusing, is Suzhou River.

I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. It's a Chinese film directed by Lu Yi. And it is from the year 2000. And this is my understanding is it's part of this. movement of filmmakers in China. I think they called them like the sixth generation or something like that of filmmakers, but it was kind of like a new wave of cinema. And so he...

And he's got a little collection, a little mini collection on the Criterion channel right now. So there's three of his movies. This is the first one. And I've been wanting to see it since last year when I first heard about it. And it's a really cool movie that I feel like... The beginning is probably a little bit stronger than the end, but I would still rate it very highly. Very independent seeming. And the basic story, we start out with this guy who's a videographer.

And he's talking about how he loves to spend time on the river and see all the things that go up and down it. And a lot of life revolves around the river. And then it kind of takes a little turn into this bar he's working for. that has a mermaid show. And the mermaid show is a woman that like swims in this tank and puts on a mermaid outfit. And of course he like is intrigued by this woman. And so they start to, you know, get into a relationship and.

Then it kind of flashes to a different story that may or may not be connected about a man and woman from perhaps a different time period. And a guy who was like a delivery man and he starts, you know, like delivering this girl because anytime her.

father would have like women at the house she would want to get out of there so she would like go somewhere else with this delivery man and they fall in love but then something happens and they you know get separated and he's constantly looking for her so that's all i'll say about the plot but it definitely has like tinges of vertigo in there it has tinges of noir it has tinges of like french new wave feeling and it's really beautiful and really unique and only

I think 82 minutes, very short movie. Nice. Um, but I highly recommend it. Okay. So Sushao River is the name of that one. Awesome. Yeah. I'm not on my radar at all. And now I'm going to let you talk for a while, Patrick. Really? Yeah. I was thinking maybe since it's your podcast, that would be the polite thing. It's our podcast. Do you want to start with the one that we both saw? Sure. Okay.

So the last one I was going to talk about, because I know you've also seen it, and it's also Todd Haynes. Yeah, it is. Is May, December. Yeah, it is. Which I watched last night. I can't stop thinking about it. I'm obsessed with it. What did you think about it? It's my favorite movie of the year. Yeah.

which I probably shouldn't announce because we have our top 10 show coming up in a couple of weeks and maybe something will supplant it. But right now it's my favorite movie of the year for the same reasons. I'm just I'm so fascinated by how many things it's able to do, how many things it's able to be about. All of the stuff that Todd Haines seems to be interrogating.

All of the performances, which range from very funny to so tragic. And that the movie is able to be both of those things simultaneously. Twitter was on a real mission to ruin the movie for me. Like the weekend it came out, which was just this past weekend, not ruin it by like spoiling things, but ruin like.

Because everyone wants to police how you're supposed to watch it. Sure. Is it camp? Is it not camp? Is it funny? Is it not funny? And I... said something about like let's not overlook the fact that it's really funny and someone said was it because i just found myself like curled up in a ball afterwards and i was like well yeah that's also the appropriate response it can be both

of those things. And I think it is. Todd Haynes is absolutely one of my favorite filmmakers. Even before May, December and May, December just cements how great I think he is. I think it is my favorite. I got to think about this one, but I feel like it might be my favorite Natalie Portman performance. Oh, man. Which is tough because she's done – I know she's controversial for some reason and I can't figure out why exactly. Is she?

I mean, people seem to think she's not a good actress. I think they're stupid. Sorry, people that think that. I think May December is a great refutation of that argument because I think one thing that's really hard to do is. To be a bad actor, like to act as a bad actor. It's like being able to sing like a bad singer when you can actually sing. It's hard. And I think she does it really, really well. Yes.

Julianne Moore in Boogie Nights does it the best I've ever seen. But I think Natalie Portman in May, December does a really good job of slowly revealing the fact that she's actually not a great actor. Yeah, she aspires to be. Sure. Clearly. But yes, she... Man, I just... Everybody in this movie is so compelling to watch. And they're each on their own separate little journey. And it's so it's almost like there isn't really a main character. I know there's probably like.

However, they campaign for Academy Awards. It's probably going to be. Right. You know. Well, there's already. I don't even know who the. I mean, I assume maybe Julianne Moore would be the lead. And then everybody else is supporting. But I'm not really sure. They may run. Natalie Portman and Julianne Moore in lead. Yeah. I don't think either gets nominated.

They're going to run Charles Melton in supporting and he will get nominated. He better because he's goddamn amazing in it. But it's not a supporting performance. No. It's a lead performance. It's a lead performance for sure. But I guess this way he doesn't have to go against Joaquin Phoenix. Right. Exactly. Which is fair.

He was fantastic. Like, I have not watched Riverdale. No, me either. I kept saying, like, why do I know this guy's face? And it's because I watched Poker Face with Natasha Lyonne. And he's on an episode of that. And the one about the, like, the NASCAR race. I don't think I made it that far Everybody, even the little townspeople that they find, it reminded me a little bit of what Linklater is able to do in Bernie. Although I know that was like...

Like a mix of actual townspeople and not. But it feels very realistic, very lived in. Like you can imagine this community. And I somehow, and I don't know how because I'm on way too much like.

internet but I somehow managed to not know or have forgotten what the movie was supposed to be about so I went in almost completely blind just knowing like who is in it yeah so that made it a lot more fun for me to watch too because the first time I see you know joe on screen i'm like oh that's her kid right and then they kiss and i was like oh wait and then i was like oh she's probably just having an affair with this younger guy

And then, yeah, you know, obviously it turns out they've been together for 20 years. And I'm like, wait a second. Oh. Yeah. So it was shocking for me on that level, too. And then, of course, I was like, OK, I know why this story is sort of familiar. Yeah. But yeah, it's so interesting and it doesn't try to be insightful about. their relationship because we don't we wouldn't how could we know right but it's insightful about like them as people I don't know it was really really good

I'm excited to watch it again. I haven't been able to yet. It's only been on Netflix a few days. And I have too much else to watch right now, unfortunately, but I'm excited to watch it again because there are things that are revealed throughout the movie. Excuse me. About the different characters that I feel like a second viewing knowing what we know at the end would completely inform everything that comes before it. Yeah. I'm speaking.

kind of specifically about the Julianne Moore character. I mean, it's true of everyone, but specifically Julianne Moore. So I'm really excited to watch it again. Yeah, me too. I feel like I'm going to probably see it like three or four more times before the end of the month and that's –

Not something I would typically do with a movie that just came out. Right. But this one really stuck with me. Yeah. And I've been thinking about it, like, all day long, like, excited to talk about it. Nice. So, yeah, thanks for giving me a chance to talk about it. Thanks for talking about it. I'll only talk about a few things because, again, most of what I've been watching has been for kind of end of the year awards consideration stuff. I watched a movie that I don't.

It might have just come out on Friday. I honestly don't know. Who keeps track? It's called Eileen. Oh, okay. With Anne Hathaway and Thomas and McKenzie, directed by William Oldroyd. And I don't want to say much about the movie except that it's a period movie about two women who work at a correctional facility. Thomas and Mackenzie is working there and then Anne Hathaway shows up as like one of the new psychologists, I believe. And they form a friendship that could be something more.

And the movie kind of turns at one point, but I don't want to say anything more. I wanted to love this movie. And I didn't. I thought it was like, okay. I thought it had good performances. I thought it had a really good mood. It's like a really good gray sky movie. It's set in the winter. It's got great winter atmosphere. It's set at like Christmas and New Year's.

Um, so you could watch it every year. The, the, like I said, the performances are great. I just, I I'm pulling for Thomas and McKenzie because I liked her in old and I liked her in that movie with Ben Foster. where they're living off the grid. Did you see that one? Yeah, that was really good. Yes. And of course, I can't think of the name, but I'll come up with it at some point. And of course, I love her in Last Night at Soho, Last Night in Soho.

And then Adam loves Anne Hathaway. So I'm like, oh, they made a movie for us. Yes. But it's just OK. We talked about May, December. I saw Dream Scenario, which is the sixth Nicolas Cage movie this year. It's very exciting. I hear he just said that he doesn't know if he wants to make many more movies. I know.

I'm very sad about. He said three or four, which only takes us through like March. I was going to say that could be next week. Exactly. He goes at a very fast pace. He does. Well, then he wants to do TV. So it's not like he's retiring. So he's going to team up with Quentin is what we're saying. Maybe. I'll still be able to get a cage fix if he does a show. Dream Scenario is his sixth movie this year. It's easily his best of the six.

I know it's a cliche to draw comparisons to the work of Spike Jonze and Charlie Kaufman, but that is very apt. The director, who I believe is Finnish, really seems to be inspired by their work. Nicolas Cage just plays a college professor who's sort of a schlubby everyman. And suddenly everyone in the country starts dreaming about him.

And it makes him a celebrity. And of course, things go great when you're a celebrity. Great Nicolas Cage performance. Very funny. Love the stylization of the dreams. Love what it has to say about the way we treat people in America. It flirts with some ideas about like cancel culture, which. I could maybe do without, but I think it handles it well. And it's not specifically about cancel culture. It doesn't suddenly become some.

Joe Rogan tirade against the woke mind virus. But there is some cancel culture stuff. I really loved it. I thought it was really, really great. That's one that is really on my list. That's probably the next movie I'm going to see in the theater for sure. You should. I was just waiting for it to be out here, and now it is. Yeah. I need to stop watching Todd Haynes movies for a minute and maybe also the hideous houses thing and then go see. Maybe. Dream scenario. I saw Napoleon.

The new Ridley Scott movie. I took Charlie to see Napoleon because he has an interest in history. It stars Joaquin Phoenix, who you might know from Joker. The most psychologically complex character of the 21st century. I really prefer him in clay pigeons. Me too. Everyone who's ever played the Joker has won an Oscar. Interesting. Twice for playing the Joker. So there's that. Oh God. He really is the great character of our time. Napoleon is like kind of two movies.

Everybody keeps saying they're anxious for the four-hour Ridley Scott cut. I will echo that sentiment because the current version runs about 220, and it's a weird mix of like... Really impressive battle scenes because Ridley Scott is like 83 or something like that. And the fact that he's still staging these epic battle scenes. And it's kind of been long enough that I'm not as tired of them as I used to be.

Around the early 2000s when Ridley was doing it, every other movie and Lord of the Rings was doing it and Troy was doing it. Every movie had big epic battle scenes. Don't knock Troy. I'm not knocking Troy. I'm just saying there were too many big battle scenes. Also, I'm knocking Troy a little. Oh, boy. I haven't seen it since the theater. Maybe it's so good. In my memory, it's so good. Okay, good. So it's those battle scenes.

It's like a little bit of like Wikipedia and then Napoleon did this and then Napoleon did this. And that's the stuff I don't like. The stuff I do like is when it has a point of view about Napoleon and is kind of funny. where it's kind of goofing on Napoleon and his relationship with Vanessa Kirby as Josephine.

They have a funny, fucked up relationship where they're kind of the only two people who understand each other in the world. And there's like so much good stuff, but it never fully commits to a tone. Yeah. And I'm wondering if the longer version would make that make sense. I've heard other reviews that said they wish it could have been like a mini series. And I.

I'm mixed on that, right? Like I love the idea of long epic movies that just get to be long epic movies. Yes. They don't necessarily have to be like binged on TV. Right. But I also can understand like for certain things having an episodic break kind of makes sense.

So do you think this is a movie that would benefit from those like episodic breaks so it doesn't have to sustain a uniform film? I never think anything should be a miniseries because I can't log a miniseries on Letterboxd. Well, you could, but then you'd be like one of those people. Exactly.

If it's a movie, I can log it on Letterboxd. I can be like, I saw that movie. I never want to be like, I saw that miniseries. You saw Twin Peaks, The Return. I'm not logging that on Letterboxd. Speaking of miniseries and Todd Haynes. The only project of his – no, there's a movie of his that I've never seen that he made for Amazon and I can't remember that. Dark Water? No, that I've seen. Something. That one I've seen. I don't remember the name of it.

But he also did a remake of Mildred Pierce for HBO, which I've never seen. I haven't seen it either. And I know I should because it has people I like. I like Mildred Pierce's movie. But one's a movie and one's a miniseries. So it's hard for me to commit to the miniseries even though it's Todd Haynes. I need to watch it. And Kate Winslet, right? Kate Winslet. And I love her. Kate Winslet. So what am I doing with my life? And who's the daughter? Somebody.

Cara Delevingne. Evan Rachel Wood. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's Evan Rachel Wood. It was before Cara Delevingne was the thing, but I bet she would have been perfect as a two. Really? Cara Delevingne? Yeah. Based on what? I don't know. I just think she'd be good at being bratty. Maybe. Yeah. She's in Suicide Squad. You know who else is in Suicide Squad? Jared Leto. The Joker.

Jared Leto as the Joker. Last movie I'll talk about and then I promise we'll get to Velvet Goldmine. Is the Joker. Is Joker from Todd Phillips. Salt Burn? Ooh, I want to see this. No, don't make that noise. Fuck Saltburn. No. Saltburn's going to be on Amazon Prime in like two weeks, just so you know. Did you like Promising Young Woman? Because that'll tell me if I should expect. Did you? Mostly. Okay.

I liked Promising Young Woman a lot more than I like Saltburn. Okay. And I'm not sure I really like Promising Young Woman. Oh, man. Saltburn is well made. It's not that she's incompetent when it comes to craft. It looks good. The music is good. It's set in like 2006 for some reason. So every song on the soundtrack was like something I put on a CD for Erica because I used to make her CDs because that was a thing that people did.

But boy, I did not like the movie. I thought it was a lot of like shock me, shock me, shock me with that deviant behavior. Like it so wants to be. edgy and it wants to be like the meme movie and uh the performances all fell flat for me it's it's it's the shitty talented mr ripley okay well

Rob reviewed it. He was nicer to it than I was, even though I don't think he liked it more than I did. He was just nicer and more articulate than I'm being right now because I'm just swearing and comparing it to other things. And he doesn't do that. So read Rob's review. If you want an articulate explanation of why the movie doesn't work or listen to me when I say salt burn sucks. I'm watching it anyway, but I do. You absolutely should. Everyone should. Like even before.

anybody reviewed it I was still nervous about it because for as much as I liked Promising Young Woman there were things about it that I was like I don't know if I'm on the same page with this movie But there were things I really liked about it. So I was really hoping that our second one would be like awesome. Right. So we'll see. Could have gone one of two ways. Is there a Paris Hilton.

musical number in this film because if not that's probably the real problem there's not there are like some musical numbers sure uh some dancing okay i'll just say it's some naked dancing i mean And you're saying this is a bad movie. Yeah, because by the time the naked dancing arrives, I was like, fuck this movie. It's because Richard Gere wasn't in it. Of course. So.

Everyone should see Saltburn. Everyone should make up. No, I'm being totally serious. Like I would never discourage if you want to see it. I would never discourage you from seeing it. Everybody should see it and make up their own minds. Sure. I just didn't like it. That doesn't mean that nobody else will. Have you seen the Yorgos Lanthimos movie? Not yet. Because he's another one where I feel like sometimes I really like what he does and other times I'm like...

I think you're trying to be cool and I'm not cool enough to like what you're into. I don't know. We are on the same page. Like he has yet to make a movie that I love, but I also haven't seen. The first one. Dogtooth. Dogtooth. Thank you. I couldn't like Dogtooth because of what happens to a cat. Oh, okay. I liked The Lobster quite a bit, but then I remember there is some dog violence, so I don't know why I like that movie. I don't remember that at all.

Yeah. His brother is a dog and then gets mutilated. Anyways, spoilers. Dog tooth is on canopy. I thought. The favorite was fun slash a little bit weird, but not like unsettling. My favorite movie of his so far is Killing of a Sacred Deer. I haven't seen that one. It's on Netflix. Okay. And I think it's worth seeing because talk about a movie. I can't remember if any animals die, but I know Barry Keegan eats some spaghetti. Sure. It's so dark. Yeah.

But in a way that like where it gets to, I was kind of cackling at the darkest stuff. Sometimes that can happen. Because I was like, I can't believe we're here. Yes, exactly. And it is. It's 100% played for absurdity. And that's why I thought The Lobster was fun because it was so ridiculous. And also I really like Colin Farrell. Yeah.

He's in Killing of a Sacred Deer. He's got a sexy beard. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. I'm excited about poor things. Yeah. I hear it's good. Yeah. So we'll see. I'll give it a shot. Yeah. Let's talk about Velvet Goldmine. Let's. We're 44 minutes into the show already. As we should be. It's because I talked so much about my things. No, we talked about all the stuff we've seen. We did talk about Todd Haynes at least. Yes, of course. Let's talk about Todd Haynes some more. Let's. I wish.

This is a movie that I really wish I had seen in a theater in 1998 or that I could see a repertory screening of because I think this movie would blow my mind in a theater. I remember seeing a trailer for it. Before Clay Pigeons, Speak of the Devil, starring the Joker's Joaquin Phoenix. And being like, what is that? Because Todd Haynes wasn't really on my radar. Safe wasn't really on my radar. I couldn't process the trailer.

Didn't see it in the theater. Rented it in 1998. Completely fell in love with it. Want to play it for Smash Cut. Can't get a DCP. I was just going to ask if you could play it for Smash Cut. I would love to, but I can't. There's no DCP. Maybe someday, maybe like for the 25th anniversary, somebody will be like, let's strike up a DCP.

of a movie that made less than $9 million. Yeah, but people really like Todd Haynes now. True. And at the time, he was much more of an unknown quantity. Right. So this, if you don't know... This is a movie about sort of the rise of glam rock. It's loosely, not so loosely, based on David Bowie in sort of his Ziggy Stardust period. Ewan McGregor is playing... A stand in for Iggy Pop slash Lou Reed. Yeah. And Jonathan Reese Myers is Bowie. For me, it was when we got to the second.

Maxwell demon song, the ballad of Maxwell demon performed by Jonathan Reese Myers in the movie, but on the soundtrack, it's shuttered to think, um, that I fell in love with the movie. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But this was not your first viewing. No. Okay. It was not my first viewing. So the first time I saw this movie was back in the days when my cousin and I would go to a movie gallery on Saturday night and we would rent 10 movies. Because if you rent nine, you get the 10th for free. Holy.

And what we would do is we would print out a list of whoever's filmography we were currently obsessed with. So at the time, it was Ewan McGregor. I love this. And so we had a whole bunch of movies, including Eye of the Beholder, which, by the way, don't bother them.

I've seen it, but I... do not remember we also watched shallow grave which is great and you've recently called out that movie for yeah i think what was that for i don't remember but it was cool either because i was like i just re-watched it and i don't remember why super duper good yeah and ewan mcgregor is like really good in

Shadow Grave, Ewan McGregor is like the holy shit who is that guy. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can tell he's a movie star. Yeah. That's also, of course, how I watched Trainspotting, which I wasn't ready for, but I was like blown away by. So, yeah. So this was like early in the... movie watching days for me and um this I was not prepared for this movie no like in a good way yeah but I will say uh we were watching with like

parents in the room and there are certain scenes um particularly the ewan mcgregor scene where he you know basically like yeah he goes full gear full full gear yeah full mr goodbar he's on display i forget That there was a period where Ewan McGregor couldn't keep his clothes on. I know. And we weren't mad about it. But yeah, so probably not like the most comfortable watch the first time I watched it just because I didn't know that that stuff was going to happen. And I was like, oh.

I hope they're not mad at us for watching this, but they didn't say anything. I think they just like quietly like my aunt left the room to do the dishes or something, which, you know, do the dishes. Yeah, exactly. But it's. It's so good. And at the time, I knew who David Bowie was, and I kind of knew that that's who it was about, but I didn't know that much. I became a much bigger Bowie fan shortly thereafter, partly because of this movie. Oh, okay. And I also had no idea.

like about Velvet Underground I got into them in college so it was like right around that same time you know who made a great documentary about them uh Todd Haynes yeah he did yeah so um so yeah I mean it's a movie that taught me a lot about music before I was really into this type of music and I loved it immediately and it also was like a great Ewan McGregor performance a great Christian Bale performance holy shit is he good in this movie and

it also was one of the first movies i think where i remember seeing like a gay scene like a gay love scene and so like my previous exposure movie characters that were gay was like rupert everett and my best friend's wedding Sure. Which is fine. He's great. He's in Napoleon, by the way. Oh, that's exciting. He shows up in the last third of Napoleon. It's like, holy shit, where have you been? Does he pretend to be Julia Roberts' fiance? Yeah. That's a weird subplot in Napoleon that I feel like...

Makes more sense in the four hour cut. That's why it's funny. Exactly. But yeah. So like my previous exposure to gay characters was limited. And this was shortly after like, you know, my religious upbringing was sort of.

evolving, let's say. My relationship with all the things that I had been raised with was, you know, kind of like shedding that. So it was really a formative movie for me. Like now that I think back on it, it's something that like showed me things I hadn't seen, maybe like a little bit uncomfortable.

but maybe in a good way. And then I kept thinking about it and going back to it. And when I watched it multiple times, I loved it even more. I love the Oscar Wilde references, which I didn't really get the first time. And I loved the music. is phenomenal, even though they couldn't license Bowie songs. They're better for it. They're so good. Because they're like approximations of this period. And so then we basically just get like more glam rock songs, which is so cool.

Now, watching it this most recent time, I was like, oh yeah, that album cover of his, that's almost exactly like Joe Briath. I don't know if you're familiar with Joe Briath. Nope. He's another glam rocker from that time period. was a heavy, like, I don't know if he influenced Bowie or vice versa, but they were very similar. And so he's like an influence on it. Jack Ferry apparently is like based on some of the same, like T-Rex a little bit, but also a little bit like Little Richard.

in a weird way really yeah okay t-rex i get because he does 20th century boy but sure but little richard just because little richard was like you know another character that was very flamboyant in music before that was like acceptable you know And Tutti Frutti is like...

basically about being gay even though he wasn't really like saying it it was like slang for it i guess which is why we get the character performing it at a young age correct okay so yeah so there's just like so much in this movie

That you can see it multiple times and get different things each time. But the first time I saw it, it was like a real like mind trip for me. Well, it's just such an experience. Words, I still am like, I'm not sick, but words keep getting caught in my throat. So if I'm talking funny. That's why this has been going on for weeks now since our kicking and screaming episode. If you hadn't done so much screaming and more kicking, you might be better off. Damn it.

Damn it, damn it. So it's like this – Adam Green has this quote about how movies are picture and sound. And that's what Vela Goldmine is. It is like an auditory and visual experience, which isn't to say that it doesn't tell a compelling story, which isn't to say that it's...

not interesting in terms of its characters or anything like that. But I think you could just sit back and let this movie wash over you and still have a great time with it because the music is so great because the costumes are so amazing. The cinematography is great. But then once you start to dig into it a little bit, today I had it on with Erica. And the Blu-ray has a commentary from Todd Haynes that I specifically haven't listened to.

Because I didn't want it to inform – I didn't want this podcast to be on the commentary, he says, and on the commentary, he says. Right, exactly. Which I've done before and I'm not proud of. So I'm going to go back and listen to it now. Yeah. Because I think he will point out a lot of the things that are going over my head in terms of the references, like the album cover that you're talking about. You know, the Wikipedia page at the bottom lists a bunch of.

I think it's the Wikipedia page where it's like the girl in this one shot is, yeah, there's a whole connections to other work. And it's like the girl in this one shot looks like the is a reference to this song by David Bowie. And I'm like, oh, all of this shit is going in my head. But I learned right after getting super into I'm Not There in 2007. I dug a little deeper on Todd Haynes and learned that like his background is in semiotics. Oh, interesting.

And I was like, well, this explains everything because everything in his movies is like a signpost for something else. Right. He's very big on the visual metaphor. Yes. Symbolism. Right. Whether it's the butterflies at the opening of May 27th. or uh so much stuff richard gear by the way is in i'm not there um so much stuff in i'm not there you know is is about how we process

Bob Dylan through pop culture. Velvet Goldmine has a lot of that in terms of references to other glam rock or whatever. But it is a more. kind of straightforward account but like may december it's about a lot of things at the same time because in addition to being about the birth of glam rock and that scene and this supposed rumored

Possibly confirmed relationship between Lou Reed and David Bowie, you know, displayed in this movie with the relationship between Jonathan Reese Myers and Ewan McGregor. But it's also about like. Christian Bale coming to terms with his homosexuality. And like Todd Haynes had this great quote when the movie came out. He said, I want this movie to turn all straight people gay and all gay people straight.

I love that. I don't know how this movie would turn any gay people straight, but I could see how this movie would turn all straight people gay. For sure. Yeah, it is a very gay movie in the best way. And that's the stuff I really like about Christian Bale. But then it's also Citizen Kane. It is also Citizen Kane. Christian Bale as an adult is this reporter going back and interviewing all the participants in –

Because it's kind of a mystery because Brian Slade is this character who disappeared, was supposedly shot on stage and has been reborn as like... let's dance david bowie kind of sort of right is that what the metaphor is that like so bowie like thin white duke when he sort of reappeared as not ziggy stardust or i don't know enough i mean maybe it was like dancing in the streets david bowie with mc jagger because that's great video by the way oh yeah one of the very best right

But yeah, I mean, what I love about it is – By the way, I'm so sorry. I was literally just thinking about this today because I've been obsessing over the Rolling Stones. Yes, which is for the best. Yeah. We're going to see them in concert. I'm so jealous. I'm very, very excited. So, but I was thinking about how that was kind of my introduction to Mick Jagger as a kid was dancing in the streets. And it was like, oh, this is.

my parents rock star sure you know and now he's doing this song on mtv with this other guy that i'm not totally familiar with but he looks kind of like the guy from labyrinth and it's just funny to me that like So much of my life, I processed Mick Jagger as my parents' rock star, and I never considered him the coolest person who ever lived. But that's who he was. Anyway. Yeah. You were saying? No. I just think I'm not sure if there's like a complete analog for like who.

the reincarnated version is but i do think it's post ziggy right like i think it's david bowie having to kind of forge a new musical identity after he gets off drugs and after he like stops being with the spiders from mars and all of that okay he starts to Okay. Which some people rejected from a critical standpoint. And what's that guy's name? Oh, I should have written this. No, it's okay.

Tommy Stone. Tommy Stone. Tommy Stone is the new Brian Slade. Yes. Played by a different actor. So as not to just put. Jonathan Rhys-Myers under embarrassing prosthetics or something. They just go ahead and cast a completely different actor and we're just supposed to accept that it's the same guy. Which is consistent with Todd Haynes' way of doing things. Right. Bob Dylan is played by eight different actors or 12 different actors. including Christian Bale. Yeah.

But I was watching it with Erica today and he goes to interview somebody in a wheelchair. And I was like, wasn't Joseph Kahn in a wheelchair in Citizen Kane? She's seen it way more times than me because she used to teach it. And she was like, oh, yeah, totally. This is Citizen Kane. Yeah, it totally is. Yeah. I really liked that portion a lot this time too. Like seeing this character who's been larger than life through the lens of people that actually knew him before he was that. Right.

It just has this other level of intimacy that we just would never see even if we were watching a biopic of Bowie. Right. And so I think that's why I like it because, I mean, we had last year, like we had Moon Age Daydream, which is phenomenal. It's a great documentary. But even then, you're only getting like glimpses through interviews and performances, right? And I think even though Bowie knows.

longer lives on earth i maintain he is a star in the universe um we will probably not get those kinds of like very raw intimate revelations about him because he is such a beloved character figure. And the people that knew him back then either probably wouldn't want to share those things or they've forgotten or they've passed on. So I think this is one of those things where reimagining it is in some ways better.

I think it's such a – that's why I'm glad they couldn't license Bowie songs because I don't want it to be David Bowie. We know that it's David Bowie but I like that it's Brian Slade. Yeah. Just like I wouldn't want to see a straightforward biopic about Bob Dylan. I think the way Todd Haynes approached it was so much more interesting. It's about the way that we process this stuff. Right.

We don't need Bohemian Rhapsody, but for Bob Dylan and David Bowie. Exactly. This is such a more interesting take on what David Bowie meant to popular culture, what David Bowie meant to. young people, you know, perhaps young men struggling with coming out and, um,

that it gave them license to embrace who they are. That scene where Christian, I mean, it's heartbreaking, but it's also beautiful. That scene where he goes out and kind of the half shirt. Yeah. He says, I'm going out for a little bit. And then he clearly is like, himself for the first time and then gets dirty looks and feels defeated and it's like but it's a beautiful moment because he's experimenting with that only because he's seen his hero do that right you know yeah

Yeah. So I love the way Todd Haynes approaches this. He does the same thing with May, December. We skirted around what the movie is about. But there's a very specific sort of famous tabloid case that the movie is sort of recreating. But he's not just doing that. It's not just the so-and-so story. And the person that wrote the script said that she intentionally did not look up or research the details of the true story because she wanted it to be based on her recollection. She thought it would be.

More interesting if it was informed by like her perception as part of the public consumption of it. Right. And that's what the movie is much more about sort of through the Natalie Portman character and the screenwriter whose name. And I should give her credit. I read that she came from casting like she her background is in casting, which.

Sammy Birch. Sammy Birch. I also read that she like had done a spec script for a true crime either TV show or movie and she didn't like that because she had to stick to the facts and that didn't always like produce the best dramatic. you know version of events and I think that's a problem that we run into and with a Bowie movie for sure like I say this is the biggest Bowie fan but I know he wasn't perfect right and I think

Any movie about him that was literally about him that got into more of his flaws would be very hard for us to watch because we don't want to think about that. So it's easier to see a flawed fictional character that may or may. not embody the same flaws that he had but you know it's it's more palatable than watching a hero portrayed in that way right right right right um

Oh, if just backing up to May, December for two seconds, if Sammy Birch does come from a casting background, I think it makes what this movie, what May, December has to say about acting so much more interesting. Totally. And kind of vicious. Yeah. Because it's that anyway. But if it's coming specifically from a person who's like, oh, no, I lived this. I've seen these people and what they do. Anyway.

Yeah. Velvet gold. Velvet gold mine. Tony Collette. Oh my God. This is one of my first exposures to Tony Collette. Obviously Muriel's wedding is before this and that's where she gets on my radar. But like. I don't know if in Muriel's wedding I was ever like, oh, my God, Toni Collette is so hot. But then in Velvet Goldmine, it's like, oh, my God, Toni Collette is so hot. Yeah. But everybody in this movie is so hot. Totally. I love, though, that she isn't just.

The wife character. Right. She's so important to the formation of Brian Slade. Right. She's so important to. And very much based on a real person. And very much like she was part of that. And she was into that life and she was okay with it all until certain things transpired. But I loved her character and I loved what she brought to it.

I loved the like pseudo British accent she puts on when she's like in the beginning, like in England. And then when she's in the interview, you know, she's herself. Right. I loved it. I just loved. Everything about her and like her line that she says about people looking at their most beautiful when they're leaving. Yes. Yes. My heart. No, this movie is full of amazing like poetry and the dialogue.

Yeah, I like that we get to see the two kind of versions of her. We see the side of her with Brian Slade where they're coming up and she's into all the bisexuality and orgies and all that, like you said, until she's kind of not. And then we get the later version of her sort of reflecting on all that and what it all meant. Again, it's 100% cribbing from Citizen Kane, but I think it's such an interesting structure.

Because it does position the movie as kind of a mystery. It does. Which he does again with May, December. Yeah. Again, if you are someone, as you said, who didn't know what the movie was about. That movie's revealing new shit every few minutes and you're like wanting to get to the bottom of certain pieces of information that we're given. Or the why of it all. Right. We want to find out, you know, the quote unquote truth. Yes.

The movie is very canny about the way it plays with truth. But the same with Velvet Goldmine because, again, it's also Rashomon because we're getting this story told from multiple perspectives. Not that we're ever given reason to. doubt those perspectives but we are getting different versions of the story and sort of having to piece together who brian slade was right and we also understand like

Maybe part of the reason they're unreliable narrators is because they were on all those drugs. Right. Like so they are only remembering bits and pieces. And maybe even the real Brian Slate, you know, like wouldn't have remembered. Right. If he had gotten a sit down interview with him, would he remember?

Remembered all this stuff? Who knows? Right. Well, so it's so interesting. I'm just thinking of this now that like when Todd Haynes does make an actual documentary, he makes the Velvet Goldmine or just Velvet Goldmine.

Velvet Underground. Sorry, I'm calling this movie Velvet. So he makes Velvet Underground and the story is only told through... footage uh from the time there's no talking heads recollecting right if i'm remembering the movie right there's no talking heads recollecting so we don't get people processing

what velvet underground meant 40 years later the way we're getting it in all of his other works when he makes a documentary it's so like straightforward like no no this is the material we have from this time and this is how i'm going to tell that story Which, does Moon Age Daydream do something similar? So Moon Age Daydream kind of constructs an image of Bowie around like almost a storyline that they insert. Okay.

clips of performances into so there's like voiceover there's so it's all kind of assembled from archival footage that's velvet underground too but it still weaves sort of a narrative got it okay okay Yeah, I just think that's an interesting way of approaching a documentary when his fictional narratives are sort of the opposite. Right. I don't know. It is interesting. I'm curious. I'm sure he's talked about it in interviews, but I would be curious why he decided to take that approach instead.

But maybe it's because he's done this version, right? Like he's already done the fictionalized version. So let's go back and just strip it back to just what happened back then. And then you can filter it through your own version. I kind of appreciate him in interviews. He's very forthcoming in interviews in terms of talking about. That's why I didn't want to listen to the commentary because I was afraid.

He was going to point out too many things and make them literal. Yeah. And I would just be repeating those. But he's very forthcoming in terms of like, this is what I was doing. This is what this is meant to be. He does. He's not one of these guys who's like, I don't know. What do you think it means? You know, even May, December, there recently was a question of like, is this camp? And he's like, no, it's not.

Instead of being like, well, if you think it's camp, I guess it's camp. That's fine. David Lynch is that kind of filmmaker and that's totally fine. That's his prerogative and I don't judge David Lynch for being that way. He would break the spell if he sat and, you know, listed out everything that his movies were supposed to mean. We don't really want that. Right. But I appreciate that Todd Ains is like kind of the other direction where he's just like, no, I'll tell you. Yeah.

But I like that he lets his characters be more ambiguous. I mean, the Brian Slade character says in an interview, meaning is not in things, but in between them.

Which is semiotics. It is. It totally is. And it's also kind of a thesis for this movie. Yes. So I really liked that. I was curious about... So the Kurt Wilde character really struck me this time. And I think it struck me... previously too but i was thinking about it more freshly because i've been listening to this podcast 60 songs to explain the 90s which is fantastic interesting um and they've

done, you know, of course, Smells Like Teen Spirit, and they've interviewed Courtney Love, which is amazing. Really? She's actually super fascinating. Cool. But so, Kurt Wild, first of all, his name is Kurt, and he has very... I would say like Kurt Cobain-ish hair. He looks exactly like him. He looks like Kurt Cobain, right? So I know he's evoking Iggy Pop and Lou Reed, but there is definitely a part of it.

to me anyway, that feels very much like it is also nodding to Kurt Cobain. I would agree with that. To that extent, even though I know that the character that Toni Collette plays is with Brian Slade and not with, you know, Kurt Wilde, I do feel like... Her character a little bit could be similar to Courtney and that she was around all this and got kind of dragged through it and has never fully recovered from it. Right. And I just thought that that was an interesting like.

perspective even if it wasn't intended like that i got that out of it this time what i find kind of fascinating about her and maybe i'm misreading this isn't she she definitely gets dragged through it but not dragged into it if that distinction makes sense like she definitely dives in and is actually partly responsible like she's almost the one pulling brian slade into it yeah um

And then at a certain point, once she's in it, it's like somebody who, you know, drag somebody into the pool and then is like, oh, I kind of wish I wasn't wet right now. And that's what I think is so interesting about her character. Not that she. She's not portrayed as a victim at all. She's not Jennifer Aniston in Rockstar. Have you seen Rockstar? I have not seen Rockstar. You're fine. Okay. By the way, everyone should see Rockstar. Everyone should see...

Whatever movie they want to see, if you want to see a fictionalized version of... Judas Priest, I think. It's sort of the Judas Priest story. Interesting. I didn't know that. Told with Mark Wahlberg and Jennifer Aniston. I like what you're saying. I don't know if the movie's good. It's not great. It's watchable. Sure. But it's not great. Anyway.

She is kind of this victim who happens to be dating him when he blows up and then she gets pulled into all the parties and the orgies and all that. And she's like, I want no part of this. I got to get out of this lifestyle. And that's not Toni Collette at all. Until it is, you know. It's not A Star is Born. Right. But there are certain... parallels, of course, that you're going to see between toxic relationships involving high-profile people, especially when heroin is involved, right? Right.

But yeah, I really enjoyed seeing her perspective, especially as she realizes that she's no longer the love of his life. Right. And that now somebody else is. Right. And I think that's the part where it starts to change. Right. Yeah. I love – so sorry, everyone. It's very hard for me to talk, which I didn't know until I sat down to record because I don't have – during the day, I don't have to talk this much at once.

So it's a surprise to me that words are getting stuck in my throat. What do you think of like the sort of Christian Bale of it all? moment with him and and kurt wild oh i love it yeah i really love it that's really that's my favorite story in the movie even though it's not about them ostensibly it kind of ends up being yeah their story too. Right. And I...

Actually, I saw a Twitter exchange. And of course, like you can't necessarily trust Twitter or like what actors say about the movies they were in 20 years ago or whatever. Oh, interesting. But somebody asked Ewan McGregor, like, do you think that Kurt Wilde and Arthur like... stayed in touch or reconnected after they met at the end and he was like oh yeah they're still together they're running a studio in northern england that are sober they have kids which i mean i you know

probably not i don't agree with any i don't get that from the interpretation in the movie but i still like that bit of fan fiction from him that little optimism i think it was just a critical relationship for or a critical moment in arthur's life right like like the Christian Bale character where he has this formative experience and, you know, it's a one night stand, but it completely changes his life in a good way and makes him realize like.

Not only is he okay, but also like this is the opening of like a beautiful kind of story for him. Yeah. I don't know how much of any of this is like autobiographical for Todd Haynes. I don't know how much of glam rock was an awakening for him. I know he has talked in an interview at least once about the that's me moment.

That he was like, that was me. Yeah. Wanting to tell my dad, you know, that's me, that's me. And I love that scene with Christian Bale. I do too. Christian Bale is very good in the movie. This is going to come out wrong. So bear with me as I work through my feelings. He comes off a little mopey to me. OK. And I maybe that's unfair. Obviously, he's a guy who's dealing with a lot. Sure. But in the sort of present day stuff.

he still seems kind of mopey. Like I get the, the kid version of him being mopey as he struggles with his sexuality, but even in the present day, there's something. mopey about him maybe that's the wrong word hmm I feel like he has sort of forgotten this and kind of become like a straight laced like he sold out a little if we want to use the phrase. OK. Like he's just working for like a regular newspaper. He's not doing anything in the.

music scene necessarily he's you know not dressing the way he dressed when he first discovered glam rock but I think this story is true. It wouldn't make sense. But I do think like he didn't stay in his little like alternative enclave. Right. Like he leaves that. He kind of joins the mainstream world. But then this story assignment kind of let.

him revisit it and i like to think that maybe that is what helped him kind of like figure out okay like i don't have to forget every part of what happened back then like i can still maybe i can also like transform i don't know Maybe I'm over reading it. No, I don't think so, because obviously it's a movie about transformation, you know, on a lot of different.

A lot of different people transforming. Again, we get to the opening of May, December, and it starts with the chrysalis and the butterflies. Transformation is something that Todd Haynes is very interested in, obviously. Very much so.

Because we have a lot of people transforming. Brian Slade literally transforms into someone else. We should talk about Jonathan Reese Myers, too, who I think was like 20 years old when he made this. And he was so good in this. He is really good. He's a little bit of like a cipher, which. is fine that's not a criticism of the movie i'm just i don't know where i stand on him as an actor um

Because I've only seen him in a handful of things. I know he did. Oh, no, that's the wrong guy. I was like, I know he did so many seasons of that CBS show where he played Sherlock Holmes. And then I'm like, no, that was Johnny Lee Miller. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to say Benedict Cumberbatch. Cumberbatch, but that's another person. Different Sherlock. No, he is on a British TV show, though. Okay.

Tudors. Is that it? That sounds right. I think he's on the Tudors. I mean, he's in that. He's in the Woody Allen movie. He's in the Mission Impossible movie. Like he shows up in stuff and I've never seen him be bad.

But I just – he's almost this – at least in Velvet Goldmine, he's sort of this beautiful face onto which we can project anything. Sure. Which Todd Haynes uses to that – uses to his advantage right i almost think he is he kind of needed to be that like a little bit of a pretty blank slate agreed and so

I'm not very well cast. I'm not sure if he needed to do as much acting as just like peacocking a little bit. And then like literally and then like looking good under makeup and like clothing. Right. Like he does. Yeah. So. You're right. I'm not 100% sure what kind of an actor he is besides this movie. Maybe he's fantastic and I just need to check that out. Absolutely. But he's perfect in this role.

I think that much can be said. I would agree with that. I'm pulling up. And I wouldn't want to see like, and I love Timothee Chalamet, but like I wouldn't want to see the Timothee Chalamet version of this. I'm not sure I love Timothee Chalamet. Well, I liked him in that movie where they were eating people. From last year. Bones and all. He was good in that. Yeah. And you know what? I actually like him in Little Women. Yeah. I think he is weirdly.

Modern in a way that's not distracting and makes the movie accessible in a way that it might not otherwise be. I've only seen it once, but that was my memory. I was like, Timothee Chalamet is doing something really interesting. It's not that he's a bad actor. It's not that I don't like seeing him show up in movies. I think it's more like. Timothy Chalamet, the person that I'm a little bit like, I don't know. Well, I just feel like.

We have a little bit of overexposure now. I mean, we've always had a little overexposure to certain celebrities. Right. But I feel like a little bit with Margot Robbie that happened to where. Yes, she's phenomenal. She doesn't need to be in every movie that exists. Right. Right. And I feel like Timothee Chalamet has both benefited and also probably had some detrimental like. you know pushback of who he could be on screen because we see him all of the time in every important

And so he can't be the cipher. He can't be the blank face onto which you cast whatever you want to cast. Like he has to be Timothee Chalamet. you know, trademark and then he's whatever on top of that. Will you see Wonka? Yeah. Really? I mean, why not? I don't think I'm going to. I don't know. I saw the Johnny Depp one. I'll see it. I did too, but that's back when, A, I was a bigger fan of Johnny Depp because I knew less, and B, I was still rooting for Tim Burton.

Well, I've heard that this one is kind of like MGM musical-y, and that kind of has me interested. I could see that. Even though there's only one true Willy Wonka, and we all know that that is Gene Wilder. That's right. I'm reading... Jonathan Reese Myers filmography. I've seen him in a lot of stuff. Oh, I remember him in none of it. Interesting. Like he's in a bunch of stuff that I've seen. Like what?

From Paris with Love. Okay. Telling Lies in America. I don't know that one. Ride with the Devil. The Ang Lee movie. Okay. Prozac Nation. Bend It Like Beckham. He can't be very big in that movie. Alexander. All right. Well, not that. I mean, there's a lot of stuff that I haven't seen, too, but I'm just realizing like, oh, I've seen him in a handful of stuff and he hasn't really.

Made a huge impression. Yeah. Whatever. I mean, that's fine. It's okay. Yeah. He's great in this. If his best movie is Velvet Goldmine, that's not bad. No, not at all. You know, that's okay. Yeah, I'll take it. Because he is definitely great in this. He is. He's really, really good. I know we touched on the music, but man, what a soundtrack this is. Arguably, it's...

I think it's a race between this. Oh, high fidelity would technically be the two thousands. I was going to call it a race between this and high fidelity for the best of the two thousands or the best in the nineties. But I guess this one wins by default. I mean, this is the best original songs for sure. And then there's also covers, right? Like there's that cover of Babies on Fire. There's the Personality Crisis, which is being covered by...

I forget now who it was, but it was somebody awesome. Well, the Wild Rats is like Thurston Moore. Yeah. Mark Arm. From Mudhoney. Right. It's crazy. Tom York is on the soundtrack. Yeah. Johnny Greenwood and Tom York are both on the soundtrack. You cannot go wrong. As the Venus in first. The soundtrack. It's so. Good on its own. It's insane. And it's not even a style. I like this style of music, but I haven't investigated it that deeply. I like like this is my favorite.

David Bowie period, and I know very little about David Bowie. Erica's a much bigger Bowie fan than me, which isn't to say that I'm not. I just don't know that much. She's super into David Bowie. When I listen to Bowie, this is the period that I really like. This is what most people think of, probably. Yeah. And I like everything I hear. I just haven't investigated this style. But, like, I put this soundtrack on and every song kicks ass. Yeah. They're all so, so good. There's nothing.

wasted here no um i the only other like movie i can think of that has like fake songs that is also like evoking an era era is almost famous but i feel like this Makes the fake songs actually way better than even that one does. Oh, I agree. Fever Dog, although it does get stuck in my head, not the best song. No, not at all. And I'm not even positive that it's supposed to be. Sure.

I do feel like if Cameron Crowe wanted... nancy wilson to just like write the best song ever yeah she could although i don't love heart so maybe she can't oh no I have no problem with heart. I love them as people, but when I hear heart. How do you like kiss and not heart? Come on. Kiss is like funny to me and heart isn't. Fair enough. They have Barracuda.

I don't love Barracuda. Like the 70s heart stuff, I'm not super into. I like the 80s heart stuff because I grew up on it more. Fair enough. I'm positive that we could just get a therapist in here and talk about. We may need one. So the like classic rock station when I was in high school, which was before you because I'm older as we've established, was WCKG. Sure.

It was on all the time in my house growing up. I think I have negative associations with most classic rock songs because of that. I'm serious. Like I associate it with bad childhood memories. Sure. And who was home when WCKG was on. Oh, I see. Okay. I thought you meant like the DJs were bad. No, no, no, no, no. Okay. It's about being a kid and not wanting to be in my house. No, it's fine. I got it. Okay.

So I can't hear Barracuda and be like, what's this cool song? Barracuda. It's like, oh, they used to play this on CKG. Fuck this song. Yeah. It's a me problem, not a heart problem. But I'm with you. Fever Dog, not that great. Sure. Better rock and roll movie. This or Almost Famous. That's a really hard one. And they're both about journalism, too. Yes, they are. Fuck. I got to go with this one. I do.

I love them both. I do too. But it's, it's this one a little bit more. I'm with you. If you put both of them in front of me, this is the one I'm watching. Yeah. I think that's how I would. And part of it is because I like the music better than the sort of stoner arena rock of Almost Famous. Yeah. I mean, I relate more to this one, I would say. Even though I do love Almost Famous with all of my heart.

It's a great, great movie. We've been doing this podcast for 13 years. We've never done an Almost Famous show. Interesting. Do you like the longer cut of Almost Famous? I'm kind of backdoor in Almost Famous podcast right now. I think I prefer the original. Me too. And there are certain movies where I like the director's cut better. Napoleon.

But this is one. Exactly. This is one and Donnie Darko is one where just stick with the original. 100%. I don't need the extra stuff. It was perfect. I'm attached to the original. I didn't see the other one until way later. I've only seen the untitled cut of Almost Famous once and I felt like the pacing was way off. It was too long. It drags a little. Yeah. And I don't want Almost Famous to ever drag. Right.

Same with that thing you do. Like I enjoy the longer Tom Hanks cut. I didn't know there was a longer version of that. It's not technically a director's cut. They just call it an extent. The released version was the director's cut. There's an extended cut that runs like two and a half hours. It's fun. Like, oh, hey, more of a good thing. But it doesn't work as well as a movie at all. I don't think. I think the theatrical cut is perfect. Right. The extended cut is just like a curiosity.

Yeah. Do you think in the extended cuts that they bring their editor in and say, like, help me edit the extended cut? Or do you think they just throw back in the scenes they liked? Excuse me. I choked on that question. I feel like with that thing you do, it's... Much closer to like the original assembly cut. Yeah. That it was it's more just like here's what it looked like when we wrote it and shot it and first put it together before the editor came in and fixed it. Got it. OK. Yeah. And that's.

That's how I felt about the Richard Kelly version of Donnie Darko, too. And I love Richard Kelly. I don't know if he has ever listened to the show, but he should because we also like Southland Tales. Yeah, we do. And The Box. And The Box. But I like the... theatrical version better because it gives less away and it's another one of those things like we were talking about where we you know the David Lynch thing of we don't want to know all the secrets I kind of want it to be a little cryptic

I think in the case of Donnie Darko that it's Richard Kelly coming back and recutting and adding that stuff. Which is a problem when you feel like... The person who made a movie you really like doesn't understand his or her own movie. Obviously, they do. They understand it better than we do. But it's like, but you don't understand what was good about it. What was good about it was that you didn't spell everything out. I feel a little bit the same way about all the stuff.

subsequent cuts of Blade Runner. Like I think that one that came out in like 92. is maybe my favorite because it doesn't spell out everything and Ridley Scott answering the question of whether or not Deckard is a replicant I'm like I don't want your answer I don't need it yeah whatever it's better when it's ambiguous I think that being said if a longer version

Yeah, I would too because it would be like more music and more costumes. Yeah, I mean even if it's just like here's a little featurette with a bunch of deleted scenes, I'm watching them. Right, exactly. I mean like I want to see what other hijinks there were and I looked online on – because I just have the DVD which has like no special features. So I did look on like YouTube to see. I found a few like interviews from them that were shot on set and I don't know if those are extras on any.

Existing media. I don't think so. And the Blu-ray is maybe out of print. Oh, man. I'm looking it up. I always fall behind on these things. I was like, I'm not going to upgrade my DVDs. And now there's like lots of good reasons too. But then I waited too long. I upgraded too many. Well, it's all right. It's $33 on Amazon. So it's not the worst, but it is a little bit of an out of print price. Christmas is coming.

Christmas is coming. My guess is it's worth it just for the Todd Haynes commentary. Yeah, I'm sure it is. Because he's just such an interesting person when talking about anything, but in particular his own work. Right. How do you feel about Dark Water? Did you see Dark Water? I didn't see Dark Water. Okay. It's fascinating because I almost feel like... May, December is in some ways a reaction to Darkwater because Darkwater is like his attempt at making sort of a mainstream commercial.

It was kind of Aaron Brockovich-y, right? Very Aaron Brockovich. Like, it's, again, about bad water and corporate greed and people being poisoned and made sick and the... The person who takes on the system, you know, it's very Aaron Brockovich, but also career wise where Soderbergh does that movie and you're like, that's a surprise. I wouldn't think he would do Aaron Brockovich. Yeah. Same with Todd Hayden's doing Dark Water. But so he makes this sort of real life.

It's not exactly a biopic, but it sort of is. And then May, December is like this reaction to like, well, I did reality already. Now let's look at like. How we process reality through the movies. And I don't know. I think it's those two make such an interesting pair. Pear. I don't know what's going on with me. I'm very sorry. I can't even get one syllable words out. Well...

I was going to ask you once you can form words once again. So I'll be in for a second. I was going to ask you because we were talking a little bit earlier about how Julian Moore. is so good in Todd Haynes' movies and she's really been like a muse for him. Are there other –

people that you would like to see him work with in that way. Because I always find it cool when there's like a director and actor pairing, like I think about Denzel and, you know, Tony Scott, right? Or, you know, other people. Or Denzel and Antoine Fuqua. Sure. Yeah, exactly. Just where you just feel like they get each other. They're on each other's wavelength and maybe they perform as totally different characters the way that Julianne Moore does. But she just seems to be like.

Somehow in that milieu of the way that he directs. I don't know how to explain it very well, but. No, I totally get what you're saying. There's something about her. She has a theatricality about her that I think fits very well with his, because his movies are almost always, I mean, Dark Water isn't totally. But so many of his other movies are working on multiple levels. And I think Julianne Moore kind of.

Can do a thing on the surface that matches the aesthetics of the movie, whether it's safe or far from heaven or May, December. There are elements of her performance in May, December that feel like she's in a Lifetime movie. But then there's also three layers deeper than that. Right. And same with Far From Heaven. It's like she's perfectly at home in a Douglas Sirk melodrama and then there's three layers deeper than that. Yeah. And not a lot of actors can do that. Yeah. I think.

She's one of the very best actors still working. I just found out she's like 62 or something like that. I would never have thought that watching May December. Yeah, I would say... For me, like Julianne Moore is somebody who I think I took for granted for a long time. And I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because I just like watched Hannibal and I was like, OK, I get what she does, which I like that movie. So I'm dissing it. I'm just saying like it's more of a mainstream.

And I've been coming to realize she's like such a queer icon for, you know, now I see why. Right. I've seen some of these Todd Haynes things. I've seen some of the other stuff she's done. But I was thinking about like the movies of hers that I've seen. And I feel like. She doesn't get credit the same way that like a Meryl Streep does for being able to be such a chameleon because she really can be so many different things.

in one movie or in like all these different ones and she can play villains really well and she can play heroes very well and she can play like the you're not really sure what she is you know and Not everybody can do that and also be at the level of fame that she is. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I came to the realization like yesterday, two days ago when it was her birthday.

Because somebody tweeted out a picture like, happy birthday, Julianne Moore. And it was these screen caps from, I don't know, 25 of her movies. Yeah. And I was looking at it and I was like, I always think of Jennifer Jason Leigh as my favorite actress.

But it's really Julianne Moore. Interesting. Okay. And I think part of that is she's almost a female counterpart to Nicolas Cage. Yeah. Because I think she fucking goes for it. Jennifer Jason Leigh does the same thing. She does. And that's part of why I love her. I think she goes for it in a way that a lot of actors don't. And the reason she doesn't get called out for it is because she always succeeds. That's a good point.

She never fucks it up. Nicolas Cage has fucked it up before. Well, I think a lot of directors don't know what to do with that kind of energy, too. Correct. If you are not being directed by somebody who knows where to like. aim that and like channel that intensity it can overwhelm a movie right and so I do think part of a director's job is like tone management and like if you have somebody that strong you also have to be able to direct the other people around them right

to either keep up or like dial it back to contrast or whatever that might be. So maybe that's part of it too. But yeah, I was like looking at her performances and I was like, there's nothing here. I would say I didn't. Like there are movies she's been in that I wasn't crazy about. But when she does like kind of mainstream commercial stuff that she did that romantic comedy with Pierce Brosnan. Oh, yeah. Laws of Traction. I didn't see it because Pierce Brosnan.

Oh, I forgot you hate Pierce Brosnan. I hate him. I'm sorry, Pierce Brosnan, but not really. I'm so fascinated by all the people that hate Pierce Brosnan. I don't know. Inoffensive at worst. That's the problem.

I saw it. I don't remember it. It was a weird fit for both of them. I get it. She was trying to do something else with her career and maybe... be able to do that too and i respect her willingness to try but it just it didn't totally work um and i don't love the movie that she finally won the oscar for i feel like yeah i feel like it was one of those where it was like it's an oscar movie it's your turn

Yeah, it's an Oscar movie. It's a movie that I watched only because I was like, well, she's going to win the Oscar for this. I want her to win an Oscar. I don't want to see this movie, but I'm going to see it because she's going to win an Oscar for it. And it does have, you know, it is a good performance. It is. And it's a... You know, a decent account of what it's like to live with someone with that disease. Sure.

It's a movie. I feel like it's a better movie on that topic. Away from her? Away from her? I can't remember now. Sarah Polly, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, and I was also looking at like, OK, what are the roles that she's done that like I really loved the most? And, you know, the one that came up.

It's not even a movie, but one that I love that she does is 30 Rock, where she plays Jack Donaghy's love interest. I almost forgot that she was on that. And she's so fucking good, and she's so funny, and she's so charming. She brings out the best side of Jack Donaghy. Yeah. On the entire show. She is very funny. Yes. And doesn't really get credit for it. Adam and I did a show on Evolution a couple of years ago, which is like not a great movie. Sure. And again, her trying a different.

thing in her career. What if I can be the female Sigourney Weaver in this Ivan Reitman special effects comedy? She's great in it. The movie is just OK, you know, but like she is really funny in it. She's really funny on 30 Rock. She's. fucking hysterical in boogie nights and also tragic and so heartbreaking you know like she's more than just funny i'm not saying like when she's outside the court right crying her eyes out it's a fucking hoot

But the way she delivers the dialogue, again, to go back to this, it's hard to play bad acting. I've never seen it done better than her in her porn scene with Mark Wahlberg. A thousand percent. So good. So funny. Yeah. You know what movie she's really good in that I don't feel like people talk about too much that I think maybe everybody forgot about is Don John, that movie that Joseph Gordon-Levitt directed. Yeah, that's a weird movie. It's a weird movie.

Weird movie, but I really like her in it. She's always good. Yeah, no, she's always good. And, you know. Whatever. It's weird because like Joseph Gordon Lemon directed it and it's like I'm torn between Scarlett Johansson and Julianne Moore. One of them will teach me how to fuck, you know, and it's like. Get over yourself, Joseph Gordon. Some people have real problems, but, you know. So that's why, I mean, it's a weird, it's not actually a weird movie the way that, like.

David Lynch movies are weird movies. It's just weird that it's like – I don't know. JGL can get it. The politics of it. Well, of course he can. No, I'm not denying that. The politics of it are a little weird. Sure. Fair enough.

But it's a fine mood. Whatever. I haven't seen it since Scarlett Johansson. Try a Jersey accent. I enjoyed it. She's doing a thing. She's doing a thing. She's good. It's nothing against her, but, um, Yeah, Todd Haynes has these, you know, a handful of actors with whom he's worked more than once, whether it's Christian Bale.

who he's worked with a few times because he shows up as one of the Bob Dylans. Julianne Moore, obviously, he's worked with a handful of times. Cate Blanchett he worked with as a Bob Dylan and then in Carol. And I think Cate Blanchett is great in Carol because I think that character and performance is...

100 percent her speed like i think she's great as bob dylan too she's really fun in that movie my favorite of the dylan mine too uh but that's also my favorite bob dylan period like the don't look don't look now don't look back don't look back period Um, but she's, you know, mannered and a little icy, you know, and yeah. And I'm not accusing Cate Blanchett of being any of those things.

But sometimes her performances can be. And I think that's why she's so well suited to Carol. I don't think she's as versatile within the Todd Haynes catalog as a Julianne Moore. Do you? See an alternate version of Carol where Julianne Moore could have played that character. Sure. I think so. Yeah. It would have been a different performance. And I actually think. Well, who's to say? There could be a Julianne Moore version where I love it just as much. Well, I mean, watching...

May, December last night, I was like, I love, love, love Toni Collette in Velvet Goldmine. But now I kind of want to see a version where Mandy is played by Julianne Moore just to like keep the Todd Haynes love fest going. But I mean, she's perfect. I love Toni Collette too. She's great. And she, you know.

could maybe be in may december i don't know now i just i'm replacing all the actors i think todd haynes like really works well with actresses though you know what i mean oh for sure he's very very good at casting the right person, figuring out how to direct them and channel that energy and like telling stories, not only from the queer perspective, but from a woman's perspective too, which is something that not every director does. Well, although many attempt.

And that's why I need to watch Mildred Pierce, because I love Kate Winslet. Obviously, it's a great part for any actress. I'm sure she's going to crush it. It's Todd Haynes doing Far From Heaven, but without... the sort of present day subtext as far as i know from what i know of mildred pierce the the joan crawford one right um so i need to watch it yeah i would like to see him work with natalie portman more Me too. I think she is a little hit or miss for me. I like her more than I don't.

I love her in May, December. Yeah. And I think she does a thing that, like Julianne Moore, can be a little theatrical. Look at her performance in Jackie or even Black Swan. She can go big sometimes. And I think Todd Haynes knows what to do with that and works it into the text of the movie in a way that not a lot of filmmakers do. If anything, it proves she isn't just Garden State. Well, I was going to say Padme. Oh, well, that too. I wasn't going to say that at all, ever. Yeah.

Uh, where is Padme? That's Darth Vader's first line when he becomes Darth Vader. Oh boy. Where is Padme? Maybe the next Todd Haynes music movie can be about the shins. Maybe. How they'll change your life. Maybe how they'll change your life. Have the shins changed anyone's life? I'm not sure. Maybe Zach Braffs. Are they still playing?

I don't actually know. I don't either. I think it might just be James Mercer and some other people at this point. I like the song that's on the headphones. Sure. Like. It's not bad. No, I heard it and I was like. I bought the Garden State soundtrack like everyone else did. I liked the soundtrack. I liked the movie in 2004, but it's a young man's movie. I don't know if I could go back to it and like it the same way. Exactly. So I haven't. I understand it means a lot to some people. Still?

I think so. Really? Okay. I think Anthony King talked about how much he loved it recently. Oh, you might be right. I think it's one of his sad members maybe. So Anthony, tell us why we're wrong about not going back and revisiting them. garden state there's a lot of good stuff in garden state i just it's it's a don john situation where it's like well you wrote yourself this part yeah

I do think it was important to a lot of 20-somethings, including myself at a certain point in time. Including myself at a certain point in time. And I hope it's important to people of the future. Listen, everybody should see Garden State. I think that's what the point of this podcast is. If you're interested in seeing Garden State, you should see Saltburn.

Absolutely. Is my point. Yes. And also Rockstar. And also Rockstar. We have so many recommendations on this podcast. Thank you for talking about Velvet Goldmine with me. Thank you for having me, Patrick. This was so fun. This was a great conversation. So thank you. Thank you, everybody, for listening. As always, go to FThisMovie.com every day for cool movie shit. FThisMoviePodcast at gmail.com or we have a Patreon. Patreon.com slash FThisMovie.

I just posted my list of favorite discoveries for them last month. Not positive what the Patreon show this month is going to be, but I'm trying to talk Erica into doing an Eyes Wide Shut episode for Christmas. I would listen to that. So we'll see and we'll hope our marriage withstands it. I think it will. It will. I'm not worried. Anyway, thank you again, Rosalie, and we will talk to you guys next week. Thank you. Thanks for listening to FS Movie.