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I'm usually joined I'm a co host chat, but today I'm a different co host. I welcome to the show. Tommy Cairo No. I've had the pleasure of finally meeting.
This past Saturday can Rant and it was so weird because I obviously I've watched you on the n c W to.
Apparently we were there.
At the same time, but neither of us remember meeting.
What what I got much later years later was that we were in some kind of mixed tag I don't remember, and you were just learning I think, or just you were actually training to wrestle, right.
I was until Paul told me not to.
Well, the first thing somebody should done was send you right out of that building and on your way and never come back.
I say that all the time, but you know I changed.
Career path when I met when I when I, uh not when I met you, but when I read through could see through your your character that you were too nice for this.
Thank you. You know you're bringing a bell for me.
I think I partnered with Tommy Dreamer, Yes and maybe yeah, I think so at like one of the high school gyms or something.
Now I'm so glad that you don't remember it either, because then I would be like, wow, I'm shot. I can't remember nothing. So you don't remember it either.
You triggered my memory because now I am remembering that. Yeah, okay, so we did.
Meet, Yeah, but I don't.
I don't remember you being around much.
Well, I figure, you gotta figure. I was this since ninety two.
Right, and I started in late ninety three.
So ninety two ninety three, but ninety four I was probably one of my busiest years there. This is weird that whole year would stand man with Singapore came. I mean, Dreamer was nowhere in the picture at that point. We did so a solid year of that. You had to I imagine you were there.
I was there. I was I I'm still training.
Yeah you must have not been been with Dreamer yet then. No. No.
When I started, I started as a plant. They put me in the crowd as Stevie Richard's girlfriend, and that was in ninety five. But before then they had me like for a year and a half, I was doing house shows, just filling in and you know.
Doing little.
I was gone on ninety five.
Okay, all right, that's what I work.
And I did you know I was a rebel like I did. First of all, I have a background as union electrician. I put cell phone towers on top of Giant Stadium. So I did that kind of work for many years. And I have a pension because of that. So I don't make any bones about it. I had so many opportunities. I could have taken advantage of it, but I could not walk away from the money that I was making. And I met my wife in eighty nine. I was only in the business three years at that point.
And then you know, I went to Japan, I did ECW, and I but my career in my Just to give you an idea, my wife went to see HER's sister up in North Jersey and she went to some memorabilia place. It wasn't Tommy Fierro's place, somewhere else, and she brought me back a E. CW sticker, and I was like, I kind of looked at her. She goes, what's the matter, I don't know, why'd you bring me that? She goes, I don't know. I just figured, I said, honey, if for all these years, you know, he used to go
there with a stomach ache. When Poul got there, he just didn't like me and didn't want to use me correctly. And I used to go there try not to get buried and try to get whatever I could out of it until I could find a way, you know, somewhere else to go, which I did, and then I just calmly walked away. But the funny thing is like everybody that was there kind of hangs their hat primarily on their time in ECW and I don't you know, and I don't. I felt like it took me backward.
I think because you had a bad You're from what I'm getting just by those couple of sentences, you had a really negative experience.
Whereas I had a positive experience. And that's why I praised the company so much.
But I want to backtrack with you.
You were good with Todd Gordon.
Go with Todd, and I was great with Eddie.
Okay, okay, So then Eddie leaves.
Right, I was there that night. Well I can say is this. I don't know, nobody's ever said it, but Paul's very lucky that Doug didn't put him through a wall because Doug Gilbert was pissed off beyond repair, just really, and I thought it was gonna erupt in to something, you know, ugly, but it did.
And I don't know why though, Why why.
Not? Because Paul fired Eddie, Paul took Getty's place. Now, I don't know the circumstances. I've heard a lot of different things. Doesn't concern me. My thing is, I could sum up my time there with the fact that I never went in through that back door. I answered, where do people go in? Every time? Because I had a wife, I married her. I met her in eighty nine, we got engaged in in a year, and married in ninety one,
so I've been with her forever. I've been guilty of many things, but I have never ever been unfaithful to my wife. I don't go in places where there's women. I don't go to bars, I don't go to clubs. Good for you, you know I did all that. I bounced for twelve years, eight years in Manhattan. So I mean, you know, there's no there's there's no good comes from them.
And I'm a Christian. You know we don't do that, right, So My point is they knew how I was then, and that I had a wife, and I didn't bring my wife one week and then have a rat with me the next week, my wife one week and cozy enough to one of the whatever. I didn't live my life like that. I didn't want to see it. I don't want to be a part of it. I don't want to be privy to it. I don't want to
know nothing. There was many times I stayed in the hotel across the street from where everybody was staying various places, because I don't I didn't need somebody knocking on my door at three o'clock in the morning with a with a crack pipe. You know.
So did the boys look at you as being anti social?
No? No, because Hack and I got in trouble for hanging out together in Philly when he was supposed to be blind, and everybody, you know how serious they took it back then and we got he from whoever got back to the got back to Todd or Paulie that you know we're because we hung out together, my wife Laurie and him. We stayed at the house. You know, they went shopping together. You know, we were tight and
you know. But here's the thing, all right, And I don't want to dwell one hundred percent on you know, ECW because so many other things are going on in my life that are so positive. But I'll say this, and I say this with confidence that there's not too many people that were rebuke this or have a rebuttal Paul would have liked to have getting gotten rid of me a lot sooner, right. I wouldn't quit until I felt I was ready to go, and he wouldn't fire me.
And I'll tell you what. He was scared to death of me, okay, And the people that knew me knew that there was really wasn't anybody in that lack of locker room that can challenge me. And that's for real. I don't care who's this and who's a gangster, and let somebody tell me otherwise. And with one leg today, I'll whit their ass. And I hate to be like that, but when you got these phony tough guys walking around, you got and I look around today and I see
what everybody looks like. And I've been through hell, right, And I don't touch anything. I smoke my weed and that's all I do. No pills, no, nothing. So you know, somebody came up to me. I'm not gonna mention any names. You were there. Somebody came up to me and asked me for drugs. And that's the only reason the perstone was there. And I said, because Carl, you always got drugs. I go, bro, that's fucking thirty years ago. Excuse my language,
it's thirty years ago. What do you mean? So there are some of those people are still living that same life. And I didn't do that, not snorting cocaine off for hooker's asses. Sorry, yeah, fine, And you're fine.
So you're not a problem from what I understand. You get it work, okay, You go to work, You do your job. You don't argue about the angle, whatever is thrown at you. You're a team player, you do it. Why did you have such a problem with Paul?
I don't know. There's something that he didn't like about me, and it was evident, and I, like I said, and you know, I stood up and mopened my mouth so many times in that locker room. And I want to tell you who is it that when you see Paul standing up there on it, you know, stairway and at one video and you see Terry Funk looking up at him. I'm like, even Terry Funk was mesmerized. I don't get it. I don't get it. What did Paul do that was so great? He ripped off a lot of people. He
hurt good people into business, like Dennis Cortluzzo. Here's the guy that goes into business for themselves, for himself because he doesn't know what it's like to be in the rent. It's not a worker. Never got to dance every Saturday night or or handle one out. And that's the way I worked. I worked, you know, it's a it's a fight, and I was happy to do that. And I did anything they asked within reason. But I was going when I wanted to go. And the truth is I walked
up because I couldn't walk. My back was shot at the time I needed. I couldn't even go to all my work on my regular job. So I mean, I'm just saying that, you know, Todd, I think should have held on to some more guys. And when they say, oh, I didn't do anything until Paul got there, really look at look at some of the matches. Look at some of the Singapore Canyon matches. Match I had a dreamer all over the building and tell me that they weren't drawing.
We're doing the same twelve thirteen hundred, whatever it was, and we were doing just as good with Eddie, and then that happened, and then for me, for a lot of other guys, it was good. You know, it's like anything else when the change of the changing of the guard comes, sweet clean new broom, sweeps clean, boom, and it bring your guys in. And I have no problem with that, but I just there was a lot of
shit going on with that I didn't like. They knew I didn't like it, so maybe therefore they looked at me like I was definitely not a prude. But it's not bad. But I have a wife. I bring her with me here. I'm not coming back next week without her and doing anything I'm not supposed to do, right, I'm not gonna be. And there's a lot of shit that went on that should never going on. You know, I look at it like this. I'm not I'm not
naming anybody any names, just in general. Yeah, anytime you have a girl whos either underage and you have more than one guy in a room, first of all, I don't know what kind of lifestyle these people leave. But I think you've got to be a half a fag to want to be in a room with another guy and a girl, let alone, three girls, three guys. I don't know, whatever, whatever, maybe that's cool. Maybe they think
that's cool. That sounds like schoolboy stuff, you know what I'm saying now, a lifestyle to live, you know, the rest of your life. And I don't know that they all do. But I see a lot of sorry looking people, and I just I'm just glad that I made the cut, I got my atget oh, And.
I understand that, right, but that shouldn't interfere with what goes on at work.
That's to me, that's.
Like leisure time, right. And I'm not saying it's correct. I'm not saying it's.
A right way to live or with it, you know whatever. But what happens at.
The arena should not affect you the way like if you hung out afterwards, you know what I mean.
Like they you know a lot of stuff so to speak, might have been swept under the rug or whatever because it's the boys, and you know, like we've all seen stuff.
I've seen things that I just shook my head and wasn't a part of. But it's the boys, and that was the excuse all these years, you know, the boys would be the boys or whatever.
Well, what happens when it's later in life and you're a father now and you've got girls. Listen, we cannot deny the fact that throughout history pro wrestling there are broken women.
Oh no, stop, I am not justifying what might not have happened to any of those girls or what.
You know, a lot of this stuff I wasn't privy to because I wasn't the part. I wasn't on the party side. I didn't do the drugs or you know, the the.
You know, excessive alcoholism and stuff like that. Like that wasn't my scene. And I think that's part of the reason why I'm still sitting here today.
No, I didn't, I mean, but but what my question to.
You is, you know you didn't want to come around that, and I understand that, and that's very admirable of you. But when you get to the wrestling part, like you had that that whole thing with with sand Man, I'm eating peaches in the backyard, like I remember that promo. I laughed like hell at that promo. I thought it
was very clever stuff like that. Do you feel like if Paul did not come in and Eddie still had the book, do you feel like that company would have taken off the way it did when Paul came into play, Because you seem like, like, I'm not knocking your opinion. Everybody's lay out an opinion, but I feel like you're you're just not given Paul enough credit for taking it to the next level. And even Todd said, because I love Todd to death and what happened between those two,
that's their thing, you know. But when when somebody asked, Todd's always like, well, Paul took it to the next level.
Okay, well no, no, but that doesn't mean anything more than he took it to the next level.
I mean, why do you're you're saying to me, like, like that scene from Beyond the Mat when Paul is standing on the uh the staircase in the back right and we're all standing there and we're all looking at him with love in her eyes. That was and you're you're seeing you're making a face. I can explain why
I felt the way I did. It was because it was our first pay per view and when I started there, like they were given away hot dogs and soda to get people in the building and then to see us get so far as to do a pay per view.
It part of the cup, but in the end you beat people out of money that never got paid back.
I understand, but you're you're fast forwarding.
Yeah, but it's all the person that I saw and what I saw, what I experienced. Sorry, so is what you're showing me on him? Never?
No, no, no, I'm not trying to I'm trying to explain to you my feeling that EI and you're welcome.
To your fure. We can't like everybody the same. I mean, sure, you know, and I was a young man who wanted to show I showed my respect from day one. Daviel Hanners just stayed a comment how long he's known me since I was a kid. I'm respectful. I love the business, but I just don't see what It's just not that big a deal. I mean, because it took off the
way did. It was something different at a time that where something different was needed was already being done in Japan for years or uh that's where he got the idea, and you took a lot of guys that were built the company coming from t w A and then starting up with Todd that were still pretty good, and we're a lot of them were as good as the guys that Pull replaced him with. But it's like I said, the changing of the guard, and I wasn't part of that, but there was. To me, there was more to it.
And instead of just telling me what it was you you tried to borry me. And I wouldn't let that hat put me in a hard hat. Do this? Do that? Put you know, you got me a one week, I'm a month on top of the next minute, you want me to put chat Uston over, no problem, I put him over. I don't care, you know, I just don't
see the big deal. I see him guys on TV that's making obviously a lot of money, and never even made an attempt to let me look and see my list because you never kept one, because you didn't care, because you're working to worry about paying Peeople back. I just and I wasn't old I'm not own anything. But man, I hear it. It's not like it's not true. I know of somebody that I know for sure has quite a bit of money, and some of them are dead.
So you know, yeah, to me, that doesn't that doesn't ring true as a as a as a good person.
To me, I understand your opinion.
I was trying to get out of you, the the discrepancies between the two of you, because you were a little vague in the beginning, but now you're opening up a little more and you're telling me he's putting you in these these gimmicks that you don't like. You have to put people over, but you're doing it because you're
a team player. So in other words, your relationship with Paul was strictly like a boss and an employee, and you're basically doing everything he's telling you to do, and you felt like he was burying you in the process.
Well, I felt like it was trying to but that that didn't happen because I took the stupid hard hat and work jacket and just wore it and came in and peachers wore one, and you know, nobody laughed, nobody liked it, but it just wasn't It made no sense. None of it made any sense. You took a guy that had came in with chaps and you know, let jacket and do rag. I was in shape I could do just about anything you wanted to. Cut my thumble, cut myself. I didn't care. And when Todd saw me,
he even said it on the timeline thing. He said, I went down and brought Damien Stone with me, little Wido. He said, he looked like they were working for ten years together and tore the house down, and I hired him immediately. What happened to that? What happened to that? See, that's my point, Like I was there and then I wasn't, and it was a matter of everything changing. And I think with Eddie, and I can't say whether or not he would have destroyed it or it would have done
good or And I'll tell you the truth. If things were different and things had gone differently and I could have been utilized to my abilities, it could have been a different story. And if Paul didn't fail and end up bankrupt and end up owning people money, maybe I'd have a different opinion of the things that I've seen over over the years. I just don't not not not a favorite person of mine. I get it, And obviously I wasn't a favorite person in his, So listen, that's
all right, that's all right. I mean I see Todd. I saw Todd this week. I love Todd. I mean me too. Well, I just think it was a better company and I think it had a better feel to it, and I think a lot of the ship that came along with it. I mean, look at I can't say it, just want I don't want to hurt anybody. You can't deny the condition of some of the people that we know in this business. We just saw them.
Yes, I know, I think I know who you're with.
It's a group that all comes from the same place and nothing has changed in thirty years. I mean, I don't get it. And here's my thing, Christine, if you meet me today, ten years ago, twenty years ago, except for the fact I was a raven maniac, I'm the same person. I'm the same person. When you see these people, not only are they not the same person, like years apart,
they're not the same person a month's apart. You can go to one of these things and somebody's all over you, and the next thing you know, they don't talk to you, and you're like, what, Well, it's their inconsistency because they're still screwing around. They're still high as a kite. These people aren't just smoking me. You know, I took a duck out during that thing with somebody who was a couple of togues and that's the end of it. There's no bills, no cold there's no none of this. Come on.
It's years so and that's why do it a lot. And if you want to wrap this little thing up, I want to talk to you about something.
Yeah, yeah, sure, but anyway, far be it from me.
I will not completely bury anybody. If I wanted to or not, I wouldn't do it. I totally respect what. I'm glad you had experience you had, I really am. I'm grateful for that. So you were protected from a lot of stuff that I protected myself from.
Right Yeah, Like I said, I I don't have really anything. Like the only thing I always said was the way it went down at the end, like we all sunk with this with the ship, I would say, like I.
Sunk with the Titanic off it, you know what I mean.
But it was my choice, and it was my choice to stay because I you know, in my heart, I was just hoping that we can overcome whatever obstacles we had, and unfortunately we didn't.
And you know, life goes on.
But I you know, I wouldn't my whole thing, Tommy, I wouldn't be sitting here today if Paul didn't give me a chance.
And I maybe not in this realm, but obviously somewhere else. You're very smart, intelligent, pretty girl. I'm sure you had done something.
Else, something else, but not in wrestling.
Well maybe yeah, maybe right right.
So that's that's that's my thing. But everybody has their own experience.
I respect your opinion, and honestly, I can totally see it. Yeah, because a lot of the things that you said I did see, but like your experience with Paul, I wasn't there for so you have your own story to tell and I.
Don't mark on it, you know, unless it comes up right. I asked about it. I listen. I'm not bitter, I'm not mad. My life is wonderful. I mean, I couldn't ask for a better life. And I was gonna wear a shirt today. I couldn't find it. I just washed. I don't know where it is alive, but ive on Spike, like that's what and you know what, it's the truth. And I don't want to be goofy, all right, but this is the truth. And Todd asked me the other night, he goes, how you doing? How does it? I said, Todd,
I'm the iron Man, no gimmick, the truth. Anybody knows me says the same thing. Yeah, you know, I've been through so much h And I'll give you a quick I want to try to give you a quick idea of what happened to me, but I'll start with giving you the quick historical when it comes to how I feel about myself, my background, I'm a rarity in this field because other than a few people, my background is huge.
As far as I was a Junior Olympic national champion in weight with thing nobody knows what that is, get on a platform and with weights. With the three Junior Olympic national titles, I was a competitive bodygolder on almost to the national level because I couldn't take all of the stuff they wanted to take. The black belt. I've just posted a picture of me at fourteen as a jiu jitsu blue belt, a fourth degree black ball and karate and my blue belt in jiu jitsu at a
young age, and then of course the wrestling business. So I have a big background and I've been good in everything I've done, and I'm not stupid, and I was around the business, exposed to it in the first live show to see Bruno at ten, and I knew everybody by the time I was seventeen. Wow, Gary Cappetta, Freddy Blassie, daveyel Hanna. I've noticed in some thirteen Gary Copetti. I know since I'm young, all these people. So by the time I broke in, they were like, hey, look at you.
It used to be that skinny kid. Yeah. So I got I got a really good break get coming in. Ted Petty trained me and so yeah, Ted Petty and also uh Bobby Bold Eagle out of New York. And I was on the road with the van with Davy giggled Mass Russian, go up New England, take the truck in the ring and go. And that's what we did for I did that for two summers and I trained
probably six months in one spot. And then after that we lost our building and all I did was set up the ring, work out, wrestle, tear it down and movement.
Go.
So it was everything. Yeah, you know, well we we we put we owned, you know, Teddy owned the ring. They had a truck Evolvo and me and Davy g Davy giggled. We would go up around up to as far as Burlington, Vermont, and we would go up and uh, you know, set them ring up, go back to the hotel. We would always work out. That's how I got a lot of experience. Was and I used to do it
with Chris Candido. God bless them. Yeah, and and and and and uh balls John Yeah, and uh they you know, was they were sixteen and I'm like, I said, what do you guys doing doing bull bugs off the top rope. I'm like, these guys are gonna hurt them.
I'm just kids, right, Yeah, they were just kids.
You know.
Uh.
And then the sea like to go to the show this past week and see Noopie, Uh you know Morgan Les Morgan and Heidi. I used to wrestle in a chicken coop in that little low boy ring that last me and me and Scott in the bottom, Me and Scott.
Leaving everyone who You are enjoying the interview so far, please tune in on Thursday for part two.
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