Extra time is exactly how I find out what's going on in the MLS. Get lost. Get lost. Maybe this podcast has influenced me a little bit as well. Everybody up here. Every single day goes into the office, into the laboratory, to try to cook up some great stuff for you guys. That's why he's here! From New York, New York, you are listening to Extra Time. I am Andrew Weavey with my partners in soccer. Matt Doyle is here. Kalen Carr is here. Three of us, three games left.
The conference finals next weekend on Saturday in MLS Cup. Orlando hosting the New York Red Bulls on Saturday, November 30th at 7.30 p.m. Eastern. LA Galaxy Rampant hosting Seattle Sounders who finally got over Mount LAFC at 10. Countdown an hour before. Wrap up afterwards. MLS season pass is your home. MLS Cup on the West Coast on December 7th. You are welcome, Kalen. We are going to the West Coast. Back to the motherland. Let's go.
Let's go. I'm ready. I'm already out here. I'm just gearing up. But yeah, no, I'm, you know, MLS Cup in the West Coast in December. I think that's a good idea. Yeah, that's a good compromise. How are we feeling today? I mean, I was hoping for Minnesota. I hear St. Paul in early December is a lovely place to be. Got a new overcoat that you wanted to try out. Maybe some hand warmers. Three of them. Yeah. Classico, Orange Mall.
Yeah, well, almost, almost loons. So, yes, we are looking forward to the business end of the MLS season. It was a wonderful week in the conference semifinals, as you sort of already heard, Orlando. ended Atlanta United's magical run. The New York Red Bulls got the best of New York City FC at Citi Field in the Hudson River Derby. The Galaxy just absolutely laid it on Minnesota. And Seattle knocked off LAFC, who are once again... Well, I...
complaining about not quite getting as much out of their season as they might have wanted to. But before we get to all the nitty gritty breakdown of the games, before we get to Javier Mascherano in, it seems for Tata Martino, before we get to the best thing we saw from these conference semifinals, I just
want to say congratulations. No, not to either of you, not to Anders, to the Orlando Pride and the Colorado Springs switchbacks. We had some champions crowned in North American soccer this weekend. Doyle, you were raving. in the pre-show meeting about this orlando pride team well the the pride they have marta who to me is the second best women's player of all time i still have michelle acres number one though um that is becoming a more and more
tenuous stance these days given everything marta has accomplished and um just how good she is at elevating the players around her classic number 10. barbara panda right now is the best women's player in the world she had the goal in this one and she um has this combination of game iq and physicality that is like it reminds me of um brazilian ronaldo
when he when he first came on the scene almost 30 years ago like it's it's that type of feel like as soon as she got in isolation in this game it's like oh this is a goal This is going to be 1-0 to Orlando, and it was. But I also came away from that game so impressed by the soccer, the Washington Spirit play. And they didn't have the same level of talent. Other than Trinity Rodman, who is a game breaker, but they didn't really have.
the players on that team to turn those high leverage moments into goals in the way that Orlando did. But man, they played like just... gorgeous soccer and um i was i was so glad that we had the two-hour gap between the MLS semifinals. So I could sit down and just like six straight hours of soccer and got this wonderful championship game in between. It was played at an incredibly high level. I think Orlando are the first team to do the shield.
NWSL Cup double. I might have that right. And it is Marta's first NWSL Cup championship. And it is like the exclamation point on one of the all-time great careers in either women's or men's soccer. It was a lot of fun. Congrats to both teams. I'm really looking forward, though, to watching Washington.
next year because, man, they freaking ball. I thought it was awesome after Orlando won and moved on to their conference final, which is the first in their club's history, that Oscar Pereja and Dagger Dan and all these guys are like, we saw what the Pride did.
like we want to do what they did we need to bring that legacy to our side of the organization here and it was also cool the seb hines who you sickos out there of course remember from his mls days with orlando is the head coach of the pride and then i also want to just as i said give congrats to the Colorado Springs switchbacks.
Looks like a really, really cool final. Just a great atmosphere. Rhode Island almost got the job done in their very first year. Shout out to Michael Parkhurst and that whole organization for really jumping up to the level quickly. But Switchbacks got it done. And if you need an MLS... connection here. Matt Rao had an assist in that. You remember him from the Philadelphia Philly Union legend. Yeah. All right. Best thing you saw. Caitlin, get us started. I'm going to go with Gabriel Peck.
Did we already select the goal of the year in MLS? I think we did. It was similar in that it was also from midfield. Oh, yeah. Slightly different execution. Oh, wait. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Orogino. I called that goal, actually. I was on that game. But I have to say... It's for the uncultured. The half-field goal, I think I've made my takes clear on that over the years on this show. The half-field goal, it's, you know.
It's great. I can see why it makes the highlights very nice. Orjano did it multiple times. So you're saying it's like the junk food. Yes. This here is like the Chez Panisse dinner with Gabriel Peck, just to give a Berkeley reference. Just an absolute masterclass, picking the ball up from deep. I think Mo Adu on the broadcast was saying like, oh, they're looking for him in space. And I think Ricky Poosh was trying to get him the ball. And it's like.
We don't need any help right now, you know? And it was like, Orjano actually did that in the playoffs too and missed at the end where he had that amazing winding run. But this one from Peck was just amazing. To go... He almost seemed to get faster with the ball, and he can run without it as well, too. I thought this was a perfect encapsulation of how he is both with the ball, in space, running at guys, but then...
on the other side of things, even using his pace and behind to stretch the field. But this one, and then even to just glide to his right foot to put it in the back post. And there was this funny moment where Jovolic just puts his hands on his head and is like...
Just mind blown, which at certain point you just almost become a spectator on the field. It's very rare when you see that for players, but you're on the pitch, you're playing with a guy, you're thinking, oh, I might score. And then you're saying.
Oh, no, I'm actually just watching like the rest of you. And it was just one of those amazing moments and one of the best goals I think I can remember in MLS playoff history. Weaker right foot, too, from Gabriel Peck. And this is the second goal of the game after 30 seconds in. He bangs one. What are we putting the price tag at?
Doyle, I heard Sasha on the postgame show. We were debating this in the group chat literally as he was scoring these goals. Sasha threw out the $25 million number. That's a lot of money. That would be more than 100% return for the LA Galaxy. How much is the newcomer of the year worth? Like if you were Will Kuntz and somebody called you up, what digits would you be uttering into the telephone or WhatsApp or wherever it is this job takes place? I would certainly start with $25 million.
And obviously, if Peck pushes, then you have to. It feels like the wrong conversation to have after what the Galaxy just did, but it's obviously the state of. The global game is players like this who can impact the game both on and off the ball, even under pressure in transition and. These are the guys who the big teams look for. And if big teams are looking for, then yeah, you're talking $20 million or above. The one thing that is a little bit different, Peck is 23. He's not...
20 or 21, and big teams, almost all of them, if they're buying from a non-Big Five league, they like to go with the younger. more potential in their eyes type of player. 23 is actually a little bit old. It's why Kevin Denka is signing an MLS rather than... signing for Marseille. So the global transfer market is a little bit irrational right now. But if you look at the.
player that Gabriel Peck is and has been it he's he's freaking phenomenal and the Galaxy are going to have some offers they'll have to to feel this offseason salary 1.7 right now by the way just quickly and 2.5 guaranteed ricky pooch signed a new deal earlier this year if you want to hold on to gabriel peck there i know he has a lot of years left because this was year one
But if you're thinking we can build around these guys for like three, four years. The one that I could think of that would work for Sasha's case as far as that valuation is Almiron, I think went for 27 million. And I think he was like. 24 years old, around a similar age when he left Atlanta United.
There is some precedent. And, you know, when I was thinking of just like those long, just mind blowing runs, I know Elmiron plays a deeper position, but still I could see that being a decent comp as far as where that price tag comes from.
We're putting the cart before the horse, but that's what this show is about, going off the rails a little bit. We'll talk more about the nitty-gritty of that performance and what it means to the Galaxy in just a little bit. Doyle, what's the best thing that you saw, read, may have seen in a group chat? Yeah, under thrown smoke in the group chat. at all
night. He's been waiting for this Sounders win over LAFC for five years. And I suspect that this will sustain him for another half decade. I think it required a blood sacrifice. I think he was willing to sacrifice. University of Washington football, both in the championship game last year and this entire season, which I believe has been terrible. Mariners baseball. You can't sacrifice. I'm sorry. You can't sacrifice. Yeah, for sure. It does not rate. Would we argue that perhaps losing his...
NBA fantasy matchups in the first three weeks, two of them to you and me Doyle would also count as a potential sacrifice. Or is that just him falling short personally? What do we think? He is taking L's across the board, but I think he feels like it. was worth it for this Sounders win which came in a different sort of way than they've been playing against LAFC both in terms obviously of the result but also in terms of like the tactical matchup and where
We're going to get into that in depth in a minute here. Yeah, I'm not going to talk tactics. Best thing I saw, you know, the dad lobby had just a massive win over the weekend. Jordan Morris understands, you know, look, he knows where he's at in life now. All right. He's bringing baby. Theo to the post game interview. He's seen Steph Curry. He's seen all these other big time stars. You know, sometimes you got to involve family in your biggest moments and
God bless baby Theo doing what all dads know babies want to do, which is to touch the thing that's sort of hovering right there in their vision. Theo's love affair with the microphone. God, it just made me feel like a young dad again, guys. It brought me back to the early days of camera. and Wyatt. It really just touched my heart. Big shout out to Jordan Morris, not just for that moment, but also for the goal.
in extra time and just the way he sort of sniffed out the moment, took advantage of it, the turn, the snapshot, finding the top corner to beat Lloris. delivering for his hometown club, which it seems very clear that he will never leave. And I'm so happy for him in that sense. Just saying, you know, dad's everywhere. You know, it was like one of those things, even if you weren't watching the game, you just sort of felt something warm.
in your chest and you're like, I think... i think a dad is having a big time moment with their child somewhere it's nice all right galaxy keep their historic role going they are absolutely wiping the floor with all comers so far that's the rapids and minnesota united we had a thought on this show that
The Loons were, I don't know, pretty well placed to pull off an upset on the road. You know, they were good away from home. They really set up well in that 5-4-1 and took away central spaces. And often... gave up possession to really take away the real estate behind them. And then this match ended 6-2. And even my dad was texting on that sixth goal saying, that's kind of beyond the pale, right? Like, that's not very nice. And I said, come on, dad. It's the playoffs. Don't be soft.
Don't be soft. So now Galaxy up to 15 goals in three games. 2016 Toronto FC set the record for the most in a single postseason with 17 goals. This is a note from Anders. I guess I just read it verbatim. Quote, do you know how that TFC team season ended? Shut out by the Sounders. Just saying.
Sanders team that didn't put a shot on goal in the final. I'm just saying. Anders is locked in. Absolutely. Absolutely locked in. Minnesota had given up two goals in seven games coming in, and L.A. just ran them off the field, Kalen. How? How and why? Well, you know, part of it was, I was curious to see how the Galaxy would approach it. And I think a part of it, we saw a bit of a hat tip when, from the beginning, Mark Delgado wasn't in the lineup. And we saw...
Marco Royce in and then, you know, 23 day layoff. And I thought Minnesota's best chance was to, as you mentioned, play that compact 5-4-1, be defensive, not allow any space in between the lines, frustrate Ricky Pooge. And in 27 seconds, the ball was in behind them. And Peck was put in the back of the net. So almost the exact worst way you could start a game. But then somehow, they responded.
Right away. And, or almost right away. It was a really good response coming back in Kelvin Yeboah. Really. Good finish there with a left foot. It kind of goes up on him there. That's it. It's like three levels beyond good. That was unreal. Yeah. Left foot. It kind of bobbles on him, bops up at the last minute and he just hits it so pure. And so then I was thinking, oh, maybe they would.
Sort of, and it came off of a turnover where they were able to crowd Ricky Pusch. He loses the ball. He's trying to play another one over the top. We got the full Ricky Pusch experience within like five minutes of this game where he, on the first goal, he hits this. unbelievable Travella through ball that turns into Peck's goal.
You know, I get to do a little work on that too. And then like five minutes later, he's trying to dribble through four players in central midfield and loses the ball. And it ends up being one one. It's like, oh, we're good. It's going to be the Ricky Puj game. It wasn't, but like it was like, honestly, then it was three.
and then it was the Galaxy. I was like, okay, well, what did we talk about? The Galaxy has some dough, what the hell are you doing moments in them. It's 3-1 and it feels like they're going to coast and then right before halftime, Dejan Jovalich just decides to kick Carlos Harvey in the back of the leg on a set piece and you're like,
okay, we're going to half 3-2. It's all there for Minnesota United. That's why forwards should never defend, right, Kalen? Exactly. Yeah, but when you said 3-2, though, I was like, this is not the type of match.
minnesota united want to play like you do not want to go it was impressive and it was important that they got that goal back before halftime to give them a chance but i was waiting for them to shift to say okay let's Let's go back into a little bit more of a shell to be so open because it was just nonstop, especially on that right-hand side with Peck and Yamane going... I mean, they made that day for Jefferson Diaz just an absolute nightmare. And with 10 minutes left, he decides.
to try to hit Ricky Peck in the face as many times as possible. And I think it was because he knew what was coming for him. There was no, it's just every man reaches the end of their rope. And it was like, clearly. the end for him there was nothing it was just and and that was the part where the the sort of setup there where it was constantly so open and allowing peck to get out in space and yes he is
an incredible player and find space makes it impossible. But I just thought that that part, the setup of the way the game started to shade was always going to be difficult for them.
hey gundy nick on twitter hit us up and said he's proud of our loons but you all literally predicted that minnesota united would force the galaxy to play balls over the top of our back line and boy did it seem like minnesota skipped that episode of extra time ironic given our level of attention to extra time predictions am i right now nick i think what we said actually is
don't let them hit balls over the top of the back line like you have to it was a given it was a given like it's just such an obvious thing that you cannot let the galaxy do that because they have the second best through ball artist in the league league in Ricky Puj and they have in Peck and pencil and Jovalich three guys who just live to to get on balls over the top it didn't make any sense I thought Rosales on the left was hanging Diaz out
to dry and I'm not sure that that was Rosales' fault. It just might have been the talent differential in central midfield for these two teams was just so overwhelming. So overwhelming. And Ricky is obviously the biggest part of that. But Greg Vanney said, defense doesn't matter. I'm starting Marco Royce. It's Marco Royce and Ricky as free eights. And Royce is like.
who he is. Royce has been one of the best midfielders of this generation and even he realizes like, oh, I don't, I'm not gonna play this position in the normal way. I'm going to play this position in a way where I orient my movement. around Ricky's movement so that he always has a vertical option 20 yards away because 20 yards is to Ricky is five yards to any other.
player in the league basically so it's an easy pass for him and behind them both or sometimes in front because ricky is going to drop all the way to the back line sometimes is surreal cleaning things up and it just works so well and Trap and Hassani Dotson and...
Robin Lode were kind of chasing shadows and Joaquin Pereira wasn't even doing that. Joaquin Pereira was just completely lost out there. So they never figure out how to get any pressure to the ball in central midfield, which left D. He has stranded because Rosales was high on the left and the back line was playing high in a way that suggests they thought that.
pressure was going the pressure to the ball was going to be incipient and instead it was just like the worst of both worlds the Galaxy registered I think 16 shots according to Opta 11 of them were big chances
Optus is a big chance is a chance you reckon they should score. Like Dane St. Clair gave up six goals. He actually overperformed his expected you're like I thought he had a good day it was actually okay man I mean you can't middle ground the Galaxy you either have to go all out to put Ricky under pressure and and give no space for him and and
like hunter seek him or you have to sit in the shell and i just thought it was going to be so obvious given the way that minnesota has played that they would sit in the shell Like, I just thought that was going to be clear. And, you know, they were in the middle ground. They looked like a team that had had a few too many drinks at the Torrance Marriott before the game, man. Like, it was just nobody was on. We can all relate to that.
Let's talk about Ricky. And as you were kind of walking us through the imagery of that and the frustration of playing against Ricky Puj and 20 yards to him or others is five to him. He kind of reminds me watching him of a boxer and like of Roy Jones Jr. And correct me if I'm wrong, if I'm completely off there of a guy who just he's going to he can hit you anytime he wants with the jab and he'll just keep doing it. Keep doing it. He'll draw you to the ball. He'll.
He'll have those little combination plays where he drops back and it's just boop, boop, boop, boop. He's just moving you around, moving you around. And when he decides it's time to hit you in the face, he's got more power than you ever imagined. And he's gone. And when he chooses that moment...
It's already over for you, whether it's in bursting forward, whether it's choosing when to play the ball. And you watch all of these Galaxy guys around him, Paintsill and Peck and Jovalich and Royce. To your point, they orient themselves. But they have such a feel for when to go, what kind of runs to make, and the timing where Ricky decides, now. Let's go now. And when he decides, Kalen, I mean, it's like...
He's just a little monster out there. Just a little smiling monster that just tears you apart. I think there is something to your point on the volume part where he has the most touches in MLS by far. Progressive passes. final third balls like but that was also the case in years past and it wasn't really as effective
He didn't have $30 million wingers he was playing to. That's what I'm saying. The way that they're set up now, because last year was pretty straightforward as far as how teams would go after him, which was... to just condense the midfield, make it tight, and he's going to try to play through everything. And you can push him into parts of the field where he'll put himself in bad spots.
um put himself in trouble and occasionally he can wiggle his way out of that but the volume part actually worked against them where it was just too much too much in the wrong place and the same types of ideas and now it with these weapons around him you can't condense the field in the midfield because
suddenly you're leaving space in behind. And then if you don't respect the space in behind, then he's going to have more room to operate. So it's more of a pick your poison part for the way they are. And that was the other thing that stood out to me about this team. just being a former striker, attacker, all of these guys were just ruthless trying to get goals. And when they smell blood in the water...
It's like they're all incredibly selfish, too. And so it was like I saw Peck go grab the penalty. He wanted it. He's putting three up on his hands. He's like, no, it's my Hattie. I'm going to get this Hattie. That was a bad omen for him. Jovalich wanted it. Pooj was talking him down, maybe brokering for it himself. Like, it looked like, even when...
Jovlich came off. He was talking to Vanny and I was sure that he was saying, come on, that should be my penalty. Like he missed it. Right. At some point, at some point, one of those guys needs to be like, you know what? Edwin Cerio. You get to take this because you're the only person in this midfield who's doing any, it's like, it's like when a quarterback buys Rolexes for the offensive line, it's like you get to take this penalty. Edwin, you earned it. But the same time.
In the moment, they make the right pass. They make the right choice. And in the sixth goal, even, it was Paintsville, and he squares it across to Jovlich. And so he was in. It was one where, based on the mentality, you would think, I'm taking this.
But it is impressive to me that I think it was the first time all three or in MLS playoffs, there's two guys, three guys with two goals in a game. And so they do share the ball and make the right choice amidst that kind of chaos of everybody wanting to get goals and goals piling on. I want to just shout out what you said about Joseph Paintsoul in terms of that unselfishness because...
I mean, think back to the beginning of the season when Gabriel Peck is coming in, he's adapting. There was sort of a month-long period where Greg Vanney was basically saying like, hey, we're not going to rush him back. He went and got married. He was trying to figure out a new country, get himself settled. And this was Joseph Paintsle's team.
in terms of who was the winger that was going to be scoring goals, that was going to be on that right-hand side where they're more comfortable, that was going to be ball dominant. It was Pencil, and he produced at an incredibly high level. He was the star. And then when Peck got into the team and just became unplayable, Paints will move to the left and they don't play through him. He's not getting the ball to feet and they're not saying, hey, just go be a 1v1 merchant, go beat somebody.
he's like a back post arriver he's an off the ball runner and credit to him for accepting the role being comfortable with the role and now just I mean, in this game, balling out in the role. One of his goals is an arrival at the back post as it gets through Jovalich from across from the right. And then the other is just him making an unselfish run in behind that gets rewarded with a sick ball, by the way, from Johnny Nelson, who's been really good.
I left back, but like, you know, to your point, Caitlin, on a team, a bunch of guys who are sharks, you know, in the feeding frenzy, they're, they're leaving enough pieces for everybody else just to get a little bit. Yeah, I remember Pooch getting that 90-plus minute one against Colorado as well. So when they start going, they don't take their foot off the pedal. I do think you're right, though. The back line deserves a little bit of a shout, too, in the shifts that they made. Johnny Nelson.
He won the ball in that first play that ends up getting into Puj that plays that Travella in behind. He had the assist. They used the width really well. He's been a really good find. And then in the middle, they've shifted things around as well with Garces in there now. I think eventually we may see Neil and Garces in the future.
But Neil and Yoshida were a little bit too similar as far as player profiles go. But I think that's a partnership that could work in the long term for them. But Garces gives them a little bit different. And I think defensively, they still give up.
you know, chances. They still will. They push so high with those numbers that we already mentioned, but they're a lot better set up. And I think the personnel choices have helped them a lot. I want to read this quote from Greg Vaney on Ricky Pooj because it just explains so much of...
the Ricky Puj experience and of sort of the progression this season on his tendency to move around and get on the ball. Quote, that's something that as a coach, I had to adapt to a little bit. You know, maybe it's not exactly how I saw the position.
on paper and i think there were some growing pains uh this year in that sense you remember when ricky didn't play for a little while and it seemed like they were playing better the galaxy well that seems like uh maybe ancient history and and probably the wrong takeaway given the way we're seeing them play now quote what we've learned with ricky is
to give him the right spaces to allow him to move around because he's unplayable when he's on the move and it's so hard if you try to mark him and chase him around because he's so mobile and he's so quick and so a lot for us is how to not put him in the box but for other guys who are playing with ricky to understand
how to best be effective and to allow his movements to take place and to work off those things. Doyle, the best part about Ricky Puj is that he has no concern for consequences. He does not. doesn't he has he doesn't think about it he's like no a ricky's gonna do ricky like all of you guys
will benefit from Ricky being Ricky. And I assume a lot of it is in third person as well. And once the Galaxy have figured that up and put some structure around him, here's where they are. It's... been beautiful to watch because the kids and artists are out there and it reminds me a lot of
old dc united with marco echeverry because they used to do something like this with marco echeverry who um was the best player of the first half decade of this league and like ricky can be that for the next half decade he's that
type of talent and we we talked about how the galaxy are gonna have a lot of offers for gabriel peck um and eventually they're probably gonna get a godfather offer that they just can't refuse and I don't think they're gonna get that for Ricky because teams that can afford to
to buy him to pay that salary. Don't play this way. You don't see teams play this way in Europe. And like if a team is going to spend $15 million on him, they're going to ask him to play a position and they're going to ask him to play.
defense and what Greg Vanney was just saying there is we don't ask that of Ricky Pooj anymore we roll the ball out and we say make the game and everybody else on the Galaxy buys into that and that is a luxury that is an ideal situation for a player like Ricky Pooj and they are winning because of it and I hope
I hope it keeps happening because it's a different type of soccer. It reminds me of what the crew were with Zella Ryan a little bit because Zella Ryan had that same type of like, no, I know the structure you want is here, but I'm just going to go get up. I'm going to get on the ball. I'm like, yes, I'm 30 yards away from goal, but I'm going to try to dribble three defenders because that is what I do. And even Wilford Nazi was like, Nope.
we're gonna sell Lucas Zellerion we're gonna find someone who's fits the structure a little bit better and Greg Vanney deserves all the credit in the world for saying like this guy is just such a talent it is it is worth it
to retrofit the entire game model around what he's doing, even as we're adding pieces like Marco Royce. And I. I honestly think at this point that Ricky is going to be an MLS lifer because the type of game he plays makes so much more sense in MLS, which is still the land of the number 10.
than it does in the type of teams that could conceivably afford him in Europe and I know when he first came here he said yeah I want to play in MLS for a while but I eventually want to go back to Europe and like I it doesn't It doesn't make sense to me because in MLS, this guy is a God and this team is built around him in a way that is never going to happen in Sevilla.
or Valencia or Marseille. So I hope that we got 10 more years of watching Ricky Pooch do exactly what he did this weekend. Ricky is signed through 2027.
He just signed an extension. He's not bored in LA as was once leveled in his direction. He seems pretty darn... comfortable and uh yeah it looks like they're the favorites kaylin for mls cup and by a pretty considerable margin i would say we were mulling this question uh before we jumped on and i just want to put it to you is this a year ahead of schedule
for the Galaxy to be such clear favorites in this moment of the season when it's been a decade since we've seen the Galaxy at any level that would resemble dominant. I think so. And we were talking on the last show as well about this and, and I was saying, It feels like they're not really being talked about as favorites for the playoffs, or they're just under the radar a little bit because, rightly, Inter-Miami won the Shield, the points record, all that, Columbus defending champions.
A lot of energy on the Eastern Conference. That disintegrated rapidly thanks to Red Bull and Atlanta United. And then on the other side, it was LAFC because they were going to finals of pretty much every... tournament you could imagine. And then of course there was Seattle who has the pedigree and this group hadn't done it together as of yet. And they had a pretty easy walk through the first series with Colorado who had.
been ravaged with injuries and then you're saying well now here's the real test and i believe some of us here thought it was going to be a bigger test than than others um and but i just think
Now it's the way it's all shaped up. They're the clear favorites. I think also when I think of the way they play, the style, the massive size of that pitch that they play on and playing at home, I think that's a big piece of this. I've played at... dignity health now i think it was home depot before in these big matches and it was like a nightmare because you're tracking beckham's like spraying balls into the corner and they're tailing right onto the streaking runs of landon and keen and
just the way they're able to like drag you around is really difficult. So I even think of like the way that Seattle are going to want to make the field compact and the way I think. Minnesota would have liked to try to do that. It's pretty difficult, even if I think of the Red Bulls and how effective they were in their matchup against New York City. I think the small pitch kind of suited them. Orlando, the way Pereja plays. And so I think that's where you look at it and you're saying,
whoever the matchup is based on this player profile they have, the system, the way Vanny has them set up, and I think also that home field is a huge advantage for them. And I haven't seen that place really, really rocking like that. It looked... Even in MLS Cups back in the day, like it wasn't that scary of a proposition to go there. And now it's like.
you knew it was going to be different it was scary in the sense of like i think the last time the last time i saw it rocking like like that was zlatan's debut yeah that was the last time i saw a crowd that i mean all the different flags and stuff and i mean yeah One win, one loss, one draw, two goals scored in three games against Seattle this year. and including a bad 3-1 loss in league's cup knockout rounds so galaxy are favored there's a significant difference between
the Seattle defense, and what they faced in the playoffs thus far. Okay, well, that was a sour note for the Galaxy. I was going to give them some plaudits, which is that, shout out to the fans. Yes, the MF Doom Tifo was amazing, and the art of that, the nostalgia was just wonderful.
But also shout out to the fans because this may not happen without them. None of this. Remember that this was a team in absolute internal crisis in terms of the relationship with their fan base. They got rid of their disaster of a general manager. they got rid of their it was the fans that got rid of that disaster of a front office that had driven the galaxy to the bottom of the standings for the better part of a decade and will coons was the obvious hire will coons has come in uh and
like he's a top five general manager in the league. Undoubtedly. Undoubtedly. And look, on the flip side, the Fire are going to need Mikey Stevens, who was part of that front office, helped identify the players, to do the same damn thing for the Fire. Like, can you go get us a...
gabriel peck a joseph pencil now the difference is you know you have ricky puge and if you have him for five years if you lose gabriel peck you just tell the next winger you just give him the super cut of of through balls and like seeing i assist and be like you too could be on the end of these things i want to read a quote here one more time just to get us going on the seattle la series because it feels like 2014 20 you know it feels like those days all over again the golden era for the galaxy
um from vanny quote we have a ton of respect for the sounders and what they're capable of doing and as much as anything just the gritty determination that that group has they understand how to win in big moments sometimes that's unteachable but they have learned it as a collective group it's the culture that they have developed up there
And it doesn't matter if it's Obed at 19 or 20 or it's Jao Paulo. They have the culture up there that we are continuing to strive for. And it comes from putting championships under your belt. I'll get your thoughts on that matchup after we break down the Sounders real quick. Just quickly though, Minnesota United, I think it was a very successful year for them, a strange year. Khalid Al-Ahmaud came in and made some moves and hired a coach a little bit late, but Eric Ramsey, as young as he is.
Didn't really show his years. I thought he used the entire season to work himself into a really good spot at the end, even if it didn't work out against the Galaxy. So Doyle, give me some grades. Eric Ramsey, Khalil Ahmad, and Minnesota United in 2024. i mean b plus at the lowest in terms of like they were up against it for for most of the season i think they um
Figured stuff out down the stretch, both in turn, you know, throw out what happened last night. Like this was a team that played really good ball, mostly against the ball down the stretch. They hit a home run with Kelvin Yeboah. What a fine. This guy has been they still need to do some work on the roster, especially, you know, specifically in central midfield. I think they know that I've heard good stuff about the fact that they have developed a bit of a partnership with.
American soccer analysis to help them with talent identification. I think that is a big step forward. Yeah, I think that's a big step forward for this club, which has been sort of lagging. in that regard but i'm bullish on the loons um going into 2025 but they're gonna need another really good transfer window we saw in this game uh that there is a gap
between the best teams in the league and what this team is right now. If they're as good in the winter window as they were in uh the summer window then this is a team that we're talking you know 55 60 points next year uh maybe even a little bit more than that all right let's talk sounders
LAFC was the mountain that they just could not climb for the last five years. It had been 10 games without a win against LAFC for Brian Schmetzer and the Rave Green. The last big one was 2019 when they knocked out, of course, Carlos Vela, Bob Bradley, and that team. The Better Than Bob game. And look, sometimes it doesn't matter, Kalen, how often you win, just when you win.
Is this a Brian Schmetzer masterclass? A mutual friend of ours asked me to ask you. And then Ian also asked, is Brian Schmetzer the most underrated coach in MLS history? Because there was a time earlier this year where... There was a feeling that this might be it in Seattle for Brian Schmetzer, and now he has him in the conference final, and he has a new contract, and he put LAFC to bed yet again.
Yeah, yes and yes and yes to all the above. I mean, he's clearly one of the greatest coaches in MLS history. I think you could probably go down the list as well to say Steph Fry also is one of those. I heard Schmetzer stumping for him, saying that it was a travesty that he's never won MLS MVP. Can I just not MVP, but goalkeeper of the year?
I agree with Schmetz that that is a that is a travesty that I think that there are three separate years that I voted for Steph Fry for for goalkeeper there and he didn't win it. I want to push back preemptively. on Sounders fans who say it's also a travesty that Schmetzer has never won coach of the year, which is untrue because.
Like he has, like he's figured stuff out mid season every single year. The legend of Brian Schmetzer is not that he strings together these 70 point regular seasons. It's that he's always getting his team up for the play. So there's not one year other than maybe 2021 where you could have argued that Schmetzer was coach of the year. So yes, travesty that Steph Fry has never won goalkeeper of the year.
Not really a tragedy that Schmetzer, who is the most underrated coach in MLS history, has never won coach of the year. It's almost as if the regular season is maybe not. As important as the CONCACAF Champions League. Well, look, now listen, now listen. They missed the playoffs. I was going to say, Andres is on an all-caps rant this year about Wilford Nancy and our justification for him being, you know, the Siggy Schmidt Coach of the Year.
based on CCC in part. Now remember Anders, you guys didn't make the playoffs that year. So like body of work, my friend, body of work, but you have the club world cup next year. So, I mean, the, the point honors is making is we voted for Nancy. because he had a, a great regular season while also making the CONCACAF champions, all comps and the, the art like Schmetzer's Seattle's team failed in the.
regular season, the year they made a deep, they won the CONCACAF Champions League. It's like, that is like a point in Nancy's fair that even a coach as great as Brian Schmetzer could not juggle the two competitions without. dropping one and failing to make the playoffs. Anyway, I completely derailed. No, the Jaupalo injury in that season also derailed them. That's when we saw a little bit of Vargas emerge.
And we saw a similar choice in this match to bring us back. Okay, yeah. Take me into the nitty-gritty of the match here, Kalen. How did he do it? It was difficult from the standpoint of... They had this long international break. They had injuries. And so you're monitoring, where's Rothrock at? Where's Jordan Morris at?
Where's Shao Paulo at? Where's Nuhu's gone on international break? He's sick. Is he coming back? And so that's a really difficult one. Weirdly, no. Weirdly, he's just not back. Yeah, I didn't make it back.
Yeah, I saw Taylor Twelman afterwards being like, what was he talking about? Kicking the... beer up into the crowd somebody throw a beer at him and he kicked it and he's like he's watching somewhere enjoying this uh hey you have apple tv everywhere wherever you are global viewer global viewer is new who i love that um but yeah i think the
choice then became simple it was tricky to manage but I think at a certain point he realized that he had to play he had to use the available pieces he had and he switched to five in the back or three in the back he brought in John Bell He brought in Baker Whiting on the left-hand side. These are guys that had played like six or seven matches this season. Started. Started, sorry. Yeah, started six or seven. I think it did one with Baker Whiting.
in Austin, I think it was in Austin mid-season or maybe DC. I can't remember. Sounds like a fever dream. Yes, exactly. A hundred years ago. But I think the shift in the formation setup and then I think the big, also the...
The standout play for me was the two center midfielders with Roldan and Obed Vargas, who I thought were excellent. Roldan has been... freaking amazing since they moved him back to central and I was never the hugest rolled on is going to be an elite six guy I actually loved him in 2021 as a pressing 10 and like going box to box but since they moved him
into a like he reminds me of like prime dax mccarty in his ability to just read and conduct the game and it's a big part of why the sounders have been so good in the second half of the season. Yeah, the other part is just everybody do your job. It was just, you know, simple. And I think Schmetzer sets his team up to say, John Bell, don't come in here and try to be Nuhu.
Don't try to replicate the players that you're filling in for. Just everyone do their job. I thought they did a really good job of limiting LAFC. We talked about the way it didn't set up well for Minnesota United. The game set up really well for Seattle. They looked pretty comfortable until they went down a goal. And then suddenly you're like, oh, you cannot allow LAFC to score first.
And that was going to be it. But they, you know, own goal, sort of a freak one that Chanel puts in. And then they had to survive. And then Steph Fry, once again, as the match went on, was just like... In the biggest moments, this guy is so dialed in and always seems to come up with the biggest saves.
The narrative was a big deal coming into this game. It felt good for the Sounders to sort of get over the mountaintop here. Jordan Morris said, we didn't love how much of a narrative there was going into this. We're glad to put that narrative to bed and move forward. I thought it was fitting that Morris was the guy.
to do it that he found that moment and maybe also fitting for lafc in some of these big moments as of late that they just weren't able to find it doyle they went back to the five in the back but steve trundolo went to girou and you know we had said against that Vancouver team in game three like it didn't work in the first half in the without Giroux but with five in the back but then it did work in the second with four in the back and three in the midfield and Giroux in the game and
It just felt like the entire second half of the season. Steve Truendolo was trying to find the right mix and just never quite settled on it. And even still, their talent advantage is such that they probably should have won the game without a little bit more, you know, finishing noose or Steph Fry not going crazy. So it didn't feel like he was trying to find the right mix. It felt like he was trying to stick with the 5-2-3 come hell or high water. It felt like this was a coach who was married.
dogmatically to a particular formation and game model to the detriment of his team. I think they chose to play worse soccer down the stretch and into the playoffs than they were capable of and the most obvious. Example of that is, as you said, we be the the one half where they looked really superb on both sides of the ball was the second half of game three.
against Vancouver when they played a 4-3-3, a front foot, possession-heavy 4-3-3 that gave them pitch control, that leveraged the skill that they have in central midfield with guys like Eddie Atuesta and Timothy Tillman and even Louis. So Brian to a bit and also leveraged Olivier Giroux because he is. Like he can do the thing and he's done it with France for years where he releases wingers or second forwards into space on the break. But we.
like France still controls 95% of the games they play. It's only against Argentina in the world cup final where they're like, no, we're just going to be an exclusive counterattacking team. Like for most games, they are the team that like dictates. play and Giroud in a possession system is a huge part of that. And he was with AC Milan as well. And he was at most stops as well. And it's just like, why are you committed to playing this?
formation and using this blueprint that empties the midfield. When you have a guy who makes it so much easier to be a team that controls the ball and controls the game and can still release Boanga and Boguch and Kike Olivera.
into attacking positions, it didn't make sense to me. It didn't feel like Gerondolo was a guy trying to figure things out. It felt like he was staying with what he wanted to do, even though the personnel and the situation... on hand um called for something different and i'll point out again that this all started with that 5-1 loss to columbus in mid-july and up until that point in the season
LAFC were, I think, top five or six in the league in possession, playing primarily out of a 4-3-3. And that loss, I think, shook. Trundolo so badly that he threw the baby out with the bathwater and they went back to being kind of what they were down the stretch into the playoffs last year, which was a low block, low possession team and gets you to finals.
It hasn't, like, I think it's telling that the one final they've won over the past couple of years was one where they were forced to carry the ball and carry possession. This U.S. Open Cup final. against Sporting Kansas City, because they have such overwhelming talent at most spots that they're better with the ball. Honestly, they're better with the ball than they are.
without it I think and they I think they paid for that a little bit with this game and they've certainly paid for that in terms of just not getting anything out of Giroux and like I pointed that out on social media and people were like Jews 100 years old well it's like Giroux was the top attacking sub for France three months or four months ago now in the Euros. He had 15 goals and eight assists in Serie A last year. He is not suddenly washed. He did not forget.
how to play the game. It's just not working because there's a disconnect between the personnel and the game model. The one last point I want to make, going to five at the back, sort of a 5-3-2 for the Sounders. This was the... adjustment that we all thought that they were going to make in the U.S. Open Cup semifinals. I remember talking to Sasha about it in the green room at the studio to being like, like Schmetzer's got to have.
something up his sleeve. He's got to have like just a formational shift that does not allow Bawanga to get into those 1v1 situations against a center back. in the like getting pulled out to the channel um and they didn't make that adjustment um last year in the playoffs and that's where the only goal came from was buonga scoring almost like a gabriel peck goal and they didn't make that adjustment for the u.s open cup semis and they lost that game 1-0
They finally made that adjustment, whether the hand was forced or not via injuries. I'm going to give Schmetzer the benefit of the doubt and say like he was going to go to the back five regardless. And it worked. I thought the Whitecaps showed you that if you have an isolated outside back against those two, you're in trouble. But if you can have another player in to help them.
and you don't give the space in behind that you can handle at times Denny Bawanga. But ultimately, I think it was a risk mitigation thing for Chirundolo. I mean, and I get it. He figured, I have the guys that will break you if there is space in behind, if our primary metric is... balls in behind the more i can create that space the better and look that mostly worked it mostly worked it just in the biggest moments it didn't quite get there and the sounders are moving on because of it
uh hollingshead said this afterwards i even think the story tonight isn't seattle coming here and out playing us it's us feeling like we lost a clear chance to win another title and trundle saying good game plan from schmetzer but we just couldn't be clean enough in the final third to score one more kaylin just give me your quick
First thought on Galaxy, Seattle Sounders, and the conference final, and we'll get to the East. Well, I'm interested to hear, listening to you guys talk about the setup. limiting dangerous wingers and spacing behind. I'm like, Gabriel Peck, Payne Sill. I'm like, I wonder now if Schmetzer might want to stick to that formation or if he's going to go back to the 4-2-3-1, which we've seen throughout most of the season.
in this next match. I do think it's going to be massive to think of Vargas and Christian Roldan once again trying to limit Ricky Puj in the middle of midfield. They do have the mobility, I think, to get around it. You know, when you think of the way that Kevin Yeboah was able to get some space and riding the hot hand in an informed striker.
in Jordan Morris. But I think they need the game to set up much more like and to look much more like the LAFC match where it is a much lower scoring affair. It is not as open. It is not end to end. They cannot get into a shootout. with the galaxy away so i would expect them to come out and um whatever formation they decide to play on to try to make it
a little bit more of a scrappy affair and keep the ball at times as well because that's the other piece of it against the Galaxy is to make them chase a bit and not allow them to control the entire match. Have we mentioned... Have we mentioned Jackson Reagan's name? We just got to say Jackson Reagan's name. He was awesome.
There you go. You have to watch Yanmar as well. His health and availability. Yeah, he was great. He was begging me to move to the Eastern Conference. I love you both. 10 p.m. LA Galaxy Seattle on Saturday night. We will give you more. We expect later on in the week on all this. All the pregame coverage on countdown. We'll dig in. New York is red.
And it's red every time these teams meet in knockout competitions. I believe that's now one in League's Cup, three in Open Cup, and one in the Audi MLS Cup playoffs that the Red Bulls have won, all of which were shutouts of New York City FC. This was a 2-0 win. Afterwards, Emil Forsberg had this to say, I think a lot of people should apologize to us now. Before coming into this, I was sure all the time, but some weren't.
Emil, I'm not going to apologize, Doug. You guys did not look it. Let's not pretend you rolled into the playoffs looking like world beaters. This was going to be the year for the Red Bulls. It's just, it is not true. It isn't true. And you elevate the team. Forsberg elevates the team. But also, and again, I was at a wedding. I had a few adult soda pops here. So I was paying attention. I haven't watched the whole game. But just based on what I did see.
The stats I looked at, I know I'm opening myself up to like, you didn't watch the game, just look through the stats. It looked like New York City had most of the chances and Felipe Carballo smoked one and Dante Van Zier tapped one and... A 2-0 win came from it. They were opportunistic and credit to them, but I'm not going to apologize. Who's apologizing for what? Weeby, as a Jersey man, you didn't believe? You were at their playoff.
match against Columbus you know who owes you know who owes an apology is Carlos Coronel because Carlos Coronel did everything in his power down the the stretch in the second half of the season to convince all of us that he stinks now And he fooled us. He had me snowed. I was like, Carlos Caronel is a liability in these games. And through three playoff games, he has been absolutely phenomenal. He was great against the crew. And he was.
is I think probably the man of the match in this one first 20 minutes kind of even I think you know advantage slightly to to NYC FC but Carbio, you know, it happened exactly how we said it was going to happen on the show, where it's like the Red Bulls aren't going to play out of the bag. It's not going to be like a 5-1 game. They are done.
playing out of the back so it was a lot of long ball second ball carballo smokes one one nil i thought nycfc's response was good like they immediately were able to go down the other end and create a chance uh Cornell snuffs that out and like two minutes later on a corner kick it's suddenly 2-0 and it was like Teams don't come back from 2-0 down in the playoffs.
NYCFC spent the rest of the game throwing the kitchen sink in, and for the most part, they did it without leaving themselves exposed, though they did let off the hook with two potential penalties. they created chance after chance and the guy alonzo martinez has been this year if that version of alonzo martinez shows up and if the regular season version of carlos coronel shows up this ends 5-2
to NYCFC. But it's a different season. It's a postseason. Cardinal was awesome. Martinez had one of those games where he probably threw his... boots into this incinerator afterwards and we're like i can never touch these freaking things again um and it's just like sometimes bulk
Sometimes ball go in, sometimes not. It's not a satisfying narrative, but it's like it was the story of this game. And that's always the anti-narrative for the Red Bulls. Like all these things you're describing to me, I'm like, okay, well, Carlos Cornell shows up in the playoffs and he didn't show up before.
four. Well, that's not the red bulls way. Normally it would be the other way around. Okay. Well you're like you're under pressure, not scoring enough goals. DP striker doesn't disappoint in the playoffs. He scores the goal. You signed a DP in the summer and he scored a banger. Like maybe this red bulls team
I hate to say it. Maybe the curse is dissipating a little bit because this is not how it normally goes. I know it's sacrilege to say this on this program, but it is a case against the underlying numbers in... in these high leverage moments in the playoffs because the sample size, you kind of just throw some of it out the window. I mean, Dante Von Serra was one of the worst performers as far as XG.
in the regular season for his position and now has two playoff goals and the way he's taking them is like off the bounce with the laces right off the post no time to think about it which i think helps in that position from a striker. You don't know what he'll do if he has to think. Yeah, well, Alonso Martinez on the other side. He was sandwiched between Lionel Messi and Luis Suarez as far as...
best performers as far as expected goals go and goals per minute. And now in the playoffs, you get those two chances, you get a few chances and it just falls. down it just doesn't quite come off right and those are the tiny little margins you get the banger from Carballo who I think that he hadn't scored a goal until
Now he has two goals in this season. But it was like a beast against the crew off the ball, and then now is adding the on-the-ball stuff where you're like, oh, okay, fine, DP, sure. And I was like, oh, Frankie Amaya, you know, if they could hold on to him. gave him a little bit more chipped in with some goals here and there. And then, you know, but sometimes, yeah, it's like all these, all the sort of cliches. And I feel like this is more of a, you know, classic.
And I think it's also the shift from three-game series to one. And we saw that across this round where these small... It looked to me much more like the playoffs that I remember, where it's a second ball out of Moffitt. smashes one from 30 yards out. Oh, God, yes. Give me that Adam Moffitt visual. Exactly. And you're like, okay, this is now just a little bit of a shift where you lock it down, it turns into a scrap.
You know, a drop ball. Same with the Orlando game with Enrique and him slide tackling a ball into the net. That's a little bit more of the small margins that are going to make a difference in these types of matches. And Red Bull have been right on top of that.
into those types of matches, I think that's where they feel they're at their best. Doyle, do you get the feeling? It's like coursing through me right now. I'm imagining Kalen as like the Turkish Olympic shooter just waiting for that moment. when underlying numbers enter the site. It's not an argument. It's not an argument against underlying numbers. It's an understanding that small sample size can, like...
Finishing variants can happen and credit to the Red Bulls for finally being on the other end of that in the playoffs. Our buddy Brian Rice on Blue Sky, who's a big Red Bulls fan. The way he put it is, I appreciate Sandra Schwartz approaching the MLS playoffs like some mid-tier college soccer program trying to make a run through the NCAA tournament. Route one and long throws and counter-pressing and booting the ball away the second there's...
any danger. This is real November ball and that's what it was. That's what it was. And they got their two DPs to show up in a way that, for the most part, Red Bull's DPs haven't always shown up in.
in the playoffs and I did say that in front of Sasha and Brad last night and they were like yeah we were asking Red Bull Global for a player like Emil Forsberg for the entire time that they were there and look that team eight years ago if they had a third dp like emil forsberg that team wins an mls cup in addition to the supporter shields they won um
They have that group now, or they have at least that piece. Let's not get too ahead of ourselves here. They had enough to do it, I think, in my opinion. Yeah, back in those days, I agree. I think, you know, that's... That's convenient. Indisputable that they were one high-level goal scorer away. But anyway, this team, they got it done in one of the biggest games in club history. But now they got it.
go make it stand up and make sure it's not just a footnote. And that's always been the hardest thing for the Red Bulls in the playoffs. Why they don't have a cup. Atomic Nacho asks, I'd love to hear about the future of New York City. Is Cushing...
Still the guy. What positions will have to be revamped? Should we get rid of Santi Rodriguez? Why is Riquinho not one of our official mascots at this point? A lot of really important, deep questions there. What's next for New York City? What did this game, this loss mean to them? And how do they move on? It's a weird one. Go ahead, Kalen. Sorry, I think it was a really good season overall. And I think they finished in 12th place last year.
They were clear out of the playoffs. I remember doing a Toronto match at home. Actually, it was at Red Bull Arena at the end of last season. It was just two teams that were way out. and had no hope of doing anything. And now the fact that they, you know, are playing at home with a chance to go to the conference final. And I feel like even the way this game went, like they were set up well, they had their chances, they had opportunities.
and it just didn't work out for them. So, you know, I do think that they could add some pieces. You do want, like, there is no... emil forsberg they haven't come out and i understand emil wasn't necessarily the difference in this match but i do think they could add some more veteran they're asking a lot of maxi morales he's 37 maxi was emil before yeah you know right they spent they spent 25 million dollars
but the player profile 25 million dollars like seven on me out of julian fernandez augustino hater uh bakrar was two million dollars miatovich was eight million dollars they spent 25 million dollars on guys who either didn't play or only came on in desperation time who were just guys and it was just guys and that's also like not even mentioning talus magno who they spent nine million dollars on and he didn't really fit tiago andrage was a couple million dollars he didn't really fit as well
nick cushing is the weirdest guy to evaluate because he's i think he's done a really good job with the homegrowns justin hack uh tayvon gray mid-career guys like alonzo martinez being a great example but santee
Rodriguez um is a better player now I think than he was two years ago but it's it's weird to give a coach that much talent and have him not do much with it and the other thing is like look man he's got 107 games in charge which is the most of any coach in nycfc history he's got more losses than wins He is, I think it's 37, 30. Let me get, I got the numbers here. 37 wins, 39 losses, 31 draws. I think he's going to be back. But I would understand.
given everything if he wasn't. I have a hard time calling it a good season. I know that the final moment put them in a position to do something special. But if I think back on their regular season, this is maybe the streakiest team in the entire league, and yet also the most predictable, at least in terms of their road form. I know that they were young. and i see the growth and i see the the positive moments but i kind of go back to what you said caitlin about like maxi is still this oversized
like presence within the team. And at some point they have to figure out how to move past that. And there were moments where Santi seemed like he was that guy, but it just, to me, it still feels, it still feels inconsistent. I want to push, I want to push back on the youth thing. Because all right, Matt Fries is youngish, but he's 26 years old. He's been a pro for half a decade. They have a DP center back who's almost 30 years old. He's.
You know, they had Burke Risa, who is 27 years old as his partner for most of the year. The starting central midfield of Maxi.
Keaton Parks and James Sands these guys have been around since winning MLS Cup in 2021 and so has Santi Rodriguez like this is not horribly young team this is a team that is weirdly inconsistent given the amount of experience they have and yeah like yeah they have young pieces at fullback and a couple of young wingers but Hannes Wolf's 26 years old he's a bonus league a veteran like these are not like
you know, this isn't the children's brigade happening here. This is like, this is something different and there's no real reason for it to have been as, as inconsistent as it was all year. split doesn't even make sense because it was a good team at home and a bad team on the road, except at home, they had three different home fields.
So it's not like it was they had one home field where they were just unbeatable. They played home games literally at three different stadia. So it doesn't, it's a really hard team to analyze and to explain. I think the final taste is of extreme disappointment. Like to lose in the very first playoff game to your rival. In a situation where you were playing honestly, you're playing a home game at the Mets Stadium like that is just the worst karma right there like you're not gonna win that one
I think we can move on to Orlando City, Atlanta on that note. That was good. Oh, okay. Orlando City. Hey, they haven't gotten this far in their history. And now Oscar Preha is saying ahead of a conference final. I think we're going to play the most important game in Orlando's history. Hopefully we can advance to the final. He called it a difficult year.
Kaylin, and it started difficult, but from the summer on for Orlando, it's been downright magical and so magical that it ended Atlanta's run. They just did not have that. I don't know. They've been spending so much time in gear here against Miami and putting so much into that series and Decision Day and Montreal that it didn't feel like they had it. What was the difference to you in this match? What made...
What made the scoreline 1-0 stand up? I think part of it for me was, well, I picked Atlanta to win. So if I were to say from my perspective, Tiare getting hurt. Very responsible of you to take that one on the chin off the top. Yeah, absolutely. So Tiara getting hurt. This is a team that's been ravaged by injuries throughout the playoffs.
all the way through Brooks Lennon going down. I almost lost track of the guys that they've missed coming in. But you want to help me out with anybody else? I think there was a few others. I mean, Gregerson had been hurt for a decent chunk of it. Brooks Lennon is now out, obviously, for the rest of the season. DPs were sold. That ate away at them, but then Tiara gets hurt.
He was the one that makes this game model work where they're going to, you know, defend and then get out into space. And, you know, he'd been scoring goals for them. And based on Lennon going down, then they have to drop Saba Lubchenidze to that. Wingback position. So that takes away some of his goal threat. And then they make a substitution to bring on Rios. And he off the kickoff in the second half. That was insane. He gets a long ball.
straight to the jaw and has to come out of the match so then you have no you have no striker at this point and no threat nothing in behind and so that's where you know those you just like if you were to just say hey just cut down one to the next like It did not work out for Atlanta United where they couldn't find that same magic. Credit to Orlando, though. I would say they have been in really good form. You see why they're such a difficult team to play against.
They have kind of that same grit that I see in the Sounders and the way that they're with those two. sixes in the middle of the midfield and the way they're able to be combative, wind balls, then they get out. Fakuturas I thought was really good in this one as well. And then it comes down to the scrap in the box. And Enrique, his movement is really, really good, really dangerous. I saw Brad.
PWP in the wrap-up mentioning that and just showing his movement even to lead to the corner kick, which was, I thought, a really good spot by him. And those small margins, that's where Orlando was able to get ahead. What do you think, Doyle? I mean, I was surprised this one was as close as it was. Brad Guzon made a couple of good saves the first five, ten minutes.
uh you know facutaurus skies ahead a header within what was 30 seconds something like that and i really thought he he was going to bury that one i thought he was going to have a big game he played a good game um They just didn't have their finishing boots. There were a million times in the second half, especially the last 15 minutes, where they probably should have made it 2-0. Duncan McGuire had an all-time bad sub.
appearance like his decision making his touch like all of it was bad and like weirdly so but it was one um mostly healthy maybe entirely healthy very good team that has been very playing very good soccer versus a team that's been decimated by injuries and holding things together with the duct tape and popsicle sticks and Pratt Gizan and the the better team ended up winning. And that's not taking anything away from Atlanta United or Rob Valentino. I don't think...
anybody could rationally, other than Kalen, could rationally have expected them to win this game. There's nothing rational about these playoffs. So far. Elmo's glue holds up. Yeah, it holds up. This outcome was rational. If you were to tell me 1-0 Orlando, but it always felt like 2-0 was more likely than 1-1. It always felt like Orlando were closer to getting a second than Atlanta were to getting a first. I would have said, yeah, that sounds about right. Dax McCarty hangs him up.
Some special moments in this one. I especially was watching Dax after the game. I know he went and found his dad, Dart, and had a nice hug there. And he, of course, spoke about that relationship. all the things that have gone into his 19 years on this very podcast last week. Let's just have a little bit of a, you know, let's say goodbye in a way, but I don't think we're going to, I don't think it'll be long before we'll see Dax again. So let's talk about him as a player. What will you remember?
Kalen as a competitor against Dax. I believe... 2016 was his first year in the league. I remember him being drafted. I can see imagery of a young guy. Yeah, that's what I meant. My brain is also broken. What do you remember as a competitor? Well, yeah, first of all, the draft 06. and he looked like a little baby. He looks like a kid. But the fact that he's continued to play so long, him and Kai are both in that same draft class with myself and Sasha as well.
So there's a number of guys that have, Josie Altidore is in that class. There's a lot of amazing players, but Dax, to continue playing at the level that he has, and I was, you know, just personally, I know he mentioned the sort of frustration of this season. But the way that it ended for him, I feel like it's going to leave a really, like, he should feel really proud in the way that he was able to, like...
I think more than anything, like the part that I liked about Dax and I always admired from afar, at least is like that kind of chip on your shoulder. And even in the like last season. where it's a really tough, I've seen guys really struggle with that, where maybe you're not getting the full minutes that you used to get, but you still have that mentality. That doesn't change.
But then he almost got to realize it to be like, most guys are just like, oh, I don't actually get back in. And then it just kind of ends. And that's the way it looked like it was going for Atlanta United. But instead it was like, I'm back in. I'm making the difference. We are winning.
we have reinvigorated this club and the fans around it in Mercedes-Benz Stadium. And so I know it didn't end up going all the way to the very end, but even when he was coming off the pitch and being substituted out, I could just see him. it burning him up. And I love that about him, you know, not from, it was a mixture of emotions. I'm sure of this, like, but it was still like one goal difference and he wanted to be there.
It was a competitor first. Yeah, that's the best thing I could say about him was like from the beginning, that didn't wane to the very last minute. And I think that's like a huge credit to who he is.
He used the word grateful a ton afterwards and said, quote, it's been one of the most memorable months of my career. Frustrating season, but we ended it with pride and we ended it fighting. That's all you can ask. We gave it a good go. We gave it everything we had. The magic just ran out a little bit here in Orlando.
We talked about it on the show. It was very clear that Atlanta United, to do anything in these playoffs, especially against what was very clear was superior competition in Inter-Miami needed to have Dax McCarty.
on the field to me that's like the biggest compliment for anybody in any part of life is like hey we're better when you're around we're better when you have a big role we're better when you know responsibility is on your shoulders and i think that very clearly was true for every single team that dax was on and you know i was listening to to the wrap up and they asked sasha and brad you know what do you remember about dax what's your what's your
sort of like feeling when you think dax mccarty and uh bradley just said hey skip just said captain you know leader tone setter guy who was relentless both in terms of what he did on the field but to me also the fact that
this year's just always on the field. Like, to play 19 years and just... constantly be present like that that alone i don't give it i don't care what your level was obviously you have to have a high one to stay on the field but like the fact that you can stay for that long and impact that many games and teams and moments throughout league history and so many different
ways and he is one of the best midfielders in the history of this league absolutely no doubt put it in stone the only sad thing for me and I'm sure even more so obviously for Dax is it there's some Charles Barkley to it you know and that like he did all these things at such a high level and was so impactful but didn't get the big one didn't get the ring he won the supporter shield multiple times
Didn't get the big one. Didn't get the ring. You know? So there's a point I want to make about Dax. Every team he left immediately got worse. The only team that didn't was the Red Bulls. And they happened to have... What a good feeling.
They happen to have Tyler Adams. They happen to have, you know, literally a guy who would Come become almost world class at defensive midfield to then plug and play and replace it like you needed that type of player to to replace Dax McCarty if you were to move on.
from him. That's one thing that I just want to point out. You can also say that the other way, too, where every team he went to got better. Immediately got better. Chicago was in a horrible place. Suddenly, they're good. Nashville gets good. They go to finals. Atlanta United so I think to your point you know both directions you can see it I mean FC Dallas I would say you know his sort of primes helped usher in some big seasons for them too but yeah
Another thing, just like a weird little bit of trivia. He was on he was property of the Portland Timbers for a hot minute. in the i think via the expansion draft and i mean they immediately trade could you imagine the past dozen years of mls if they had held on to him and they had had a dax mccarty diego chara double pivot for the past
you know, 35,000 minutes of MLS. Like, that's just like a what-if. I'm sorry, Portland fans, that probably causes you pain just thinking about that. Like, we've had a lot of current... pros come into the studio over the years, including back at the old studio on 37th Street. And I will never forget, Dax came in for a Halloween show, and he dressed as Chucky.
yes from child's play he was so game for it like he had like no ego about it it was absolutely hilarious i always appreciate it and he he also like he did his homework like he came ready to talk about teams
in the other conference, which you usually do not get. I don't want to say usually. You often do not get. It's just more difficult to get. Current pros. Yeah. And this is a guy who was absolutely a junkie. And the final story, I'm going to tell the story I told at the bar last week with Kalen.
and a few others. The first time I ever met Kalen Carr, right? So this is about 10 years ago, I think, when Kalen first started working for us. I don't remember this story. Uh-oh. Yeah. You were maybe a few deep. He comes, he's like, oh i'm doing this show and you you wrote about how how good dax mccarty is at reading the game can you can you show me that and i was like
this ex freaking jock he's this is a test right here Kalen it just wants me to like out of nowhere pull a cliff and I remember going into a game I think from the week or two before um
It was Red Bulls versus Seattle, and it was the Obidus era Seattle when they were doing these combos on the run through midfield that only they could do. And I was like, I know exactly what clip I'm going to get. And it was one where like... they're cutting they're doing that thing and they're cutting out every single defender on the field and dax is reading it all the way and he just steps in right at the top of the d
Turn over turns it the other way with a perfect pass into I think it was Sasha's feet in the half space and the Red Bulls are off to the races and Canada's like, oh, oh, yeah I guess that is pretty good. And he just walks away. And that was the first time I ever met Kaelin Carr. I was like, this son of a... All right. All right. I see how it is. So if anybody ever wanted to call Doyle out on anything, I'm your guy.
test his bona fides test his bona fides one thing i've always respected about dax is his honesty and and that's in terms of talking about the league as a whole and every time he's coming to the studio, there's just an element of like, yeah, I'll say it. I'm not going to sort of protect feelings. I'm going to say what I really think, but I always respect that he said it about himself too.
and was willing to hold himself to account. And I think that goes back to the leadership we're talking about. I don't think this is going to be the end of frequent interactions with Mr. Dax McCarty. I would expect those to continue in some shape and form. You know, just like everybody who's given a lot to this league and the game in the country, I think the more that we can provide those opportunities and cherish those from those sorts of folks is how we continue to grow this thing.
um and not just in terms of like are the games bigger is the league bigger but is our soccer culture richer you know dax is an important part of that as are so many others and a hearty thank you to him uh for 19 years of of stepping in and taking balls away, getting his head up and finding feet and generally just being a little, you know.
SHIT to play against. So congratulations. Come to Men's League, bro. Come to Men's League. It's calling you. It's calling you. Real quick, let's take a look ahead. 7.30 p.m. Eastern time. Orlando City going to host the New York Red Bulls. Doyle, I'll give you a... shot at this one pray over Schwartz tactical battle southward network wants to know yeah I don't think that there's going to be anything different in terms of how the Red Bulls play
i think that this is who they have decided to be for the playoffs and i don't think that's wrong given uh the personnel and um how they've played the one thing that worries me is like sean neilis took like he led with his head on that play and he was brought off with a concussion. Noah Ayla has not looked comfortable defending in the channels in a three and he is the natural replacement.
for uh for neilis and um orlando city do a lot of work in those channels so i i would expect orlando city to have a lot of the ball i would expect um the red bulls to play a lot of long ball second ball uh that is not the easiest thing to do when you have arajo and cartagena sweeping up those second balls that said um schlegel is a wild card and um robin jansen is one of my favorite players but he's not great in the air so you could see maybe the same type of um
The same type of game playing out against Orlando City that played out against NYCFC. That said, it feels like there's a Faku Torres moment coming. He has found a way, certainly in 2022 when they won the Open Cup, he has found a way to be a big player in big moments. And look, there's a trip to MLS Cup on the line.
It's a really big moment potentially for both these teams this weekend. Galaxy and Seattle have been there. Orlando and Red Bulls trying to get back there and do something they've never done. Saturday, November 30th, less than a week. 6.30 p.m. Eastern time. MLS season pass. Come join us for MLS countdown. Then at 7.30, Orlando hosts the Red Bulls for a spot in MLS Cup, which they will travel to because it will be on the West Coast. The Galaxy in Seattle will decide the host of MLS Cup.
10 p.m. Eastern Time. Breaking news. We're going to have to get to this. The Vancouver Whitecaps have parted ways with head coach Vandy Sartini. What? Yeah. All right, let's do the preview first and then we'll get to that. I mean, we did the preview just, what? I was going to take us to Miami and we're at an hour 20 and Anders is probably going to revolt and Doyle, you've got acupuncture and...
What do we do? What do we do? I'm shocked. I'm shocked. I thought that the playoff run, I thought that what Vanny showed, I thought the contract extension that takes him through next year would.
I mean, I guess when you think something, throw it out immediately in this league. Anybody got a gut reaction? I mean... where's this we were just talking as tom is reporting this and i had heard whispers earlier over the weekend that something like this was was maybe in the cards and had dismissed it as ridiculous because we all agreed that the caps were playing the best
soccer that we've ever seen them play in MLS. And he made a great adjustment to the 4-3-3, really 4-3-2-1 for the playoffs. They smoked. Portland 5-0 in Portland, then basically outplayed LAFC, including that 3-0 win at BC Place, which I think is the best win that I think is the best game. that Vancouver have played since they've been in MLS and literally two of the three best wins in club history or two of the four best wins in club history in these playoffs.
as you're getting the best out of guys like Gald and White and Kubas and turning, you know, fringe players like Seb Berhalter into like.
playoff assets against a player as good as denny bawanga i i do not understand this one at all at all this is this is madness from the whitecaps i think you could have understood it before the playoffs right like with the the fade down the stretch and had the playoffs not gone the way that they did but ultimately he gave the club their best moments ever i mean three straight canadian championships three straight
Yeah. Kalen? Perennial playoffs. I mean, they've made the playoffs more often than not. He's gotten the best out of... The group, he's brought along some good young players. I think of like Ali Ahmed, some guys that have come up and done well. So this is a strange one. And the other part of it is just like he kind of feels like the... He's like the face of the franchise. Yeah, for sure. Maybe that's part of the problem with the suspensions and some of the, you know, I don't know.
Yeah, but the timing of it, especially too, of having just had this run where, you know, you beat a manager 5-0, he keeps his job. You lose your job going to the next round after taking LAFC to the brink. Winning on aggregate against LAFC, the top seed. Yeah, it's that one. There's got to be something else going on because it doesn't make a lot of sense from just the results standpoint and honestly the way it felt like they're trending.
Okay, well, more will come out. Let's quickly do the Tata stuff. We've already done sort of the goodbye Tata aspect of it. Javier Mascherano appears to be the one in. All reports are pointing in that direction. I don't know. To me, it makes sense.
that you would hire someone who's close to Lionel. I mean, ultimately, what Inter-Miami need more than anything else is for Lionel Messi to play soccer for the club for as long as possible, both from a soccer perspective and then also from just a club-building perspective. So if this is what...
Lionel Messi once and, you know, all the powers that be in terms of players are happy and comfortable with it. And it allows you to continue to go add more and bigger players, which it seems like the club is going to do. I mean, the Moss brothers and everybody else in the final.
Press conference here for Tata, we're just saying, hey, we're going to have the best team we can. There's no budget limitations. We're going to bring the best players in the world. This makes sense to me, Doyle, but it is a big test for Javier Mascherano, who's never managed at club level. who certainly has a mixed bag with the Argentine youth national teams so far. Yeah, I saw I have a couple Argentinian friends who were thrilled.
at this hire because it allows their U-20s to go in a different direction. I'm not going to read too much into that. We've seen guys who were not great youth coaches end up being really excellent professional coaches. And look, this is job in Miami is about keeping the locker room happy and being willing to use the young players when Busquets, Alba.
suarez and of course messy uh need to to rest like this this is not about reinventing the wheel tactically this is not about um Going out and finding new players that you are going to be like they are obviously going to find a couple of center backs and that's it. It's just bring this team back and get them to like each other, get them to like playing ball. Mascherano being friends with them. I usually like.
laugh at that type of thing. Like you need it. But like Mascherano being friends with them is like the best thing you could do for this group because the vibes of the entire locker room, it's going to come down to those four guys being happy. And they weren't by the end of this year. And they probably will be for 2025. And I'll say it right now. I'm going to pick them to win the Shield. And I'm going to pick them to win MLS Cup.
Jorge Mas did say afterwards that he fully expects the opening of the new stadium in 2026 to include Lionel Messi as the number 10 within the team. Messi's contract does end after 2025. There's an option for 26. So, you know, there's some writing on the wall there. And also, Moss said that on Chris Henderson, quote, he's still here. So those feelings that we had and talked about on the last show that that might continue seem to be a distinct possibility and perhaps even probability.
As well. I'm going to get your thoughts on a high-profile move here, Kalen. Olaf Melberg, set to be the manager of St. Louis City. Jeff Carlisle. news and then the powers that be including our own Tommy scoops confirming it Melberg tried to get here if you remember tried to go to Toronto FC the league office said nah
Not as a designated player. In 2011, they tried to sign him. I mean, that was the first thing I thought. I remember that being a thing. Yeah, just a quick dot here. Was it in 2011? Yeah. Anders is anti-St. Louis. He says we can't extend the show for this, to which I say, watch me. Well, I thought Hackworth did a great job there. So I thought he might get the job, but it's one of those that as it stretches out.
You feel like the interim coach is likely not going to get it. And then you always expected somebody coming from Europe just because it seems like the club, that's kind of the profile. The way that Lutz Fannestiel is... scouting and evaluating talent from the player side and also from the managerial side but other than that i can't really give too much insight
Yep. Makes sense. Seems like a good signing in terms of profile. Obviously a good name. Very interested to see what he can do in St. Louis. And if the preferences of manager and CSO... match up, that would be a good thing.
For St. Louis, we seem to have a very good summer and have a good foundation laid for 2025. All right, that's it for us. Producer Phil did ask what our favorite Thanksgiving sides are. I'm a stuffing guy. I'm a stuffing guy. Yeah, you got to have some sausage in there, maybe some sage. Spam Musubi. I go to Hawaiian Thanksgiving. Look at that.
Hell yeah. Throw out a little green bean casserole. Used to be anti that growing up, but was big into that as well. We'll let you know on Twitter what's coming later on this week for us. Obviously, the conference finals come up on Saturday. So regardless, you'll enjoy those on MLS Season Pass. In the meantime... Enjoy your holiday week, everybody. We will see you very soon. Adios.