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If you'd like to contact us with any thoughts or questions, please visit our website@exitpointpodcast.com. With us this week is Lonnie Binet, a base jumping pioneer who after suffering a nearly fatal accident that left him paralyzed, became the world's first person to earn a base number as a paraplegic, jumping all four objects in the base acronym. He has since traveled the globe base jumping and become a pair of bobsled, world champion representing his home country of Canada.
His perspective is as valuable as his presence, and I feel lucky to call him a friend. So, without further ado, let's get Lonnie on the track. How would you describe yourself? What kind of person are you? Uh, I don't know, man. I, I, I like to think that. You know, I'm, I'm the kind of guy that likes to have fun, you know, and, and fairly easygoing and, you know, I'm always there for other people, you know, if, if they're down, then I'm the, I'm the kind of guy that, you know, I don't care.
Gimme a call at two o'clock in the morning. I'll be out the door as soon as I can get dressed and, and, and be there for people, you know? So, um, but I'm also stubborn so bitch too. I know that, but, you know, which can, you know, can, can be good and it can, you know, can be bad too. There's times where being stubborn is, is actually helpful.
And then there's, you know, obviously there's times where being stubborn and you know, you, you gotta look back later and go, man, why don't you have to be such a, a hard hit about that? Right. Well, certainly, uh, your stubbornness has become an inspiration, at least for me, uh, in that, uh, you're the first person to accomplish wheelchair base. You are wheelchair base number one. Uh, tell us motivated you about that. Actually, it's, uh, para base, para base number one.
I never actually went for the wheelchair base number. So, um, when I had my accident, which was on my 1100 base job, um, I felt like I needed to do at least, like I needed to do one more job. And nobody could really understand that, especially the doctors. You know, I woke up out of intensive care and, you know, the first question I had was, you know, how long? Before I can jump again. And you know, the doctor was great. She didn't pull any punches.
She was like, Hey, Lonnie, you know, you're paralyzed. I hate to tell you, but you'll never jump again. And, and, you know, that's where the stubbornness came in. I was like, well, I hate to tell you. You don't know who you're talking to jump again. Right. And, and you know, as that whole reality of, of, uh, you know, yeah, I'm paralyzed and you know, this is gonna be really hard. I started to settle in.
I still felt like I needed to do one more jump for myself personally, so that I could say to myself, I knew the risks going into the, the sport, and I knew that, you know, something like this could have happened and that this sport didn't beat me. Yeah. That I needed to do one more jump to say, fuck you. You didn't beat me. I'm still here. And then, you know, and that was, that was the whole plan going in. You know, I was gonna do one more jump, and, and, and that was it.
And for some of my, you know, some of my jumping buddies, they thought one more jump man. I wanted to go and fucking off myself off an object or something, right? So I had a hard time convincing the guys to take me out. Um, but then once I did that jump, then I was like, well, you know, maybe I could go back and redo the objects and, and requalify for base. And so that became the goal. It was like, okay, I'm gonna go out, I'll redo all four objects and then maybe I'll quit.
And, you know, here we are 18 years later and I'm, I'm still doing stuff. And then, so after I had gone back and redid all four objects, then Randy contacted me and said, Hey man, I'm giving you para bass number one. And uh, so I did that for a couple years and then, The chair, the whole thing for the chair was, I still struggled with the wheelchair for, for several, several years. I hated the thing, right? And I tried not to use it cuz I can actually stand up. I'm, I'm super lucky.
I'm not a complete paraplegic. I'm, I'm incomplete. So I have a little bit of function. So I hated the chair. And then I had this idea, you know, like, Hey, if I could bring the chair with me on a job, there's no way in hell that, that the chair could diminish my love and my passion for the sport. But maybe if I figure out a way to bring the chair along with me, then the sport will help me accept the chair and not hate it so much.
So, you know, from that point I just kind of dove in, how can I do this? How can I bring. Frame the chair along with me. So, you know, I stole ideas, of course, from Scott Ebbing and, you know, a three ring release system on the, on the lap. And then I, you know, I did a bunch of hanging harness, uh, stuff where, oh fuck, that doesn't work. Like, oh, that's not gonna ha, you know, that ain't gonna work.
Yeah. Back to the dryboard, we're getting another strap, we gotta do this, that, and then, you know, so eventually I came up with, it's a two strap system. So I have one strap that goes from the foot plate up to my chest strap. And then the other one is like a lap belt basically. And that one is the three ring release so that, you know, if I get into any sort of trouble, then I can, I can ditch the chair.
So if I'm understanding you correctly, in the beginning it was about not being retired, but if you wanted to retire, making it a personal choice. And then after that, finding a new love for the sport and then trying to invigorate your, uh, you know, desire to be in the chair. Yeah. Yeah. Just more, more so the acceptance. Acceptance, you know, cause I had a hard, I had, I had a hard time accepting the chair, right?
Yeah. And to, to bring the chair along into the sport and, and to start jumping with it. I thought, okay, maybe it'll help me accept the chair. And for sure, a hundred percent it did, you know, after, after that very first jump that I, you know, that I did with it, you know, I kinda, you know, give a little slap on the side. Said, I guess you're not so bad after all.
So, you know, it definitely helped and, and, uh, you know, made me move forward with like, this is it, you know, I'm gonna have to live with the chair for the rest of my life. Can you talk us through the specific technology and how you actually accomplished these jumps? Like what techniques you were using and, uh, how they worked out?
Um, so, you know, once I came up with the strap system that that was, that was gonna work, then, uh, the next thing was, uh, we were going to bridge day and that was gonna be my first jump there. And then I was kind of, I, I was, I couldn't figure out exactly how am I gonna get this thing off the edge, you know? And, and, and all I could, you know, have, having never done it before, I, I, all I could reference it to is jumping off a curb or, you know, a small little lip with the chair.
And I was like, that's super unstable because I'll, you know, I whip around town and when it go off of the curb, if I nail it perfectly, then I come off the curb perfectly flat and stable and just land nice, like perfect. But if you just miss that, cuz you gotta do a wheelie to do that. Yeah. And if you just, if you overpower the wheelie a little bit, then you kind of tip back. And if you under power it, then you, you kind of go forward.
And I was like, that's gonna be way too difficult for me to try to, to just nail that exit. So I said, the easiest thing I can do is just roll off and front flip the chair. You know, that'll be the most stable thing I can do, is to just front flip the fucking thing. Right. And of course everybody was like, no way, man. No way can't. I was like, so of course then, you know, I went, uh, we've got a, um, a quarry here that's not far from my place, like 20, 23 minutes.
So I went there and, you know, did a bunch of exits and had a buddy of mine help me and I just exited off the edge of this rock, rock, uh, quarry into the water until I. I got a few shots at it. It was like, okay, that front flip is perfect. Like that's a perfect rotation. I'm not going too fast. I'm not flipping too slow. I can pitch outta that no problem. And then, uh, you know, and then went, went to Bridge Day and j and just went for it.
And, you know, the, the, it worked out basically, it couldn't work out any better. The front flip was the perfect speed pitched out of it. The only thing is, is that very first strap system I had broke ah, on the very first jump. So as soon as I opened, the chair was gone. And I was like, oh fuck. You know, luckily I, I, I know I'd thought about the whole, like, if I gotta get rid of it, um, what? I have to have a recovery parachute for it, right? Because my.
My thought was wasn't that, oh, you know, like the chair will break or whatever, you know, my brain automatically went to worst case scenarios. Like, what if the chair lands on some kid and kills it? I mean, I never lived with myself. Right? So yeah, the whole idea was it's gotta have a recovery system for it in case that happens. And, and, uh, that was also a little bit of a trial and error because that didn't quite work.
They weren't, uh, I used 2 42 inch pilot shoots thinking, okay, chair's only like 15 pounds. That should be good enough. But it wasn't. So back to the drawing board again. And then we actually cut up a, uh, a 20 foot round parachute to, and did some drop tests with it. And so now it has a proper, um, Proper sized round parachute, basically attached to the chair. If I have to cut it away. And I've seen this thing, it looks basically like a mountain bike.
Uh, can you, can you walk us through a little bit about what this thing, like actually, how, how can you land it? You know, like what, what, what's the technology that allows you to, uh, repeatedly land something like this in like, off piece terrain? Yeah. The, the, the off piece terrain is, is really been the, the hardest part. So, uh, a good friend of, uh, of mine, of ours, uh, Christian Newman, um, you know, guy's genius, you know, can, can build anything, right?
Um, so I went to him and said, Hey, like, can we figure something out? I need some larger, like off terrain, like, you know, off-road kind of tires. Because, uh, a wheelchair, normally the front wheels aren't very big and, and, uh, you know, if they're small wheels, they just get dug in and then I end up doing a front flip.
So he built a whole system, frame system that bolted onto my chair and, uh, had these big navi, like six inch or eight inch wheels on it, and that allowed me to land in gravel and rocky terrain and, and what have you. The only problem with that is now that the chair becomes a lot heavier and a loter. Yeah, yeah. And front heavy. So, uh, yeah, I, I, I, I pick and choose. If I've got a, a fairly smooth, uh, landing area, like asphalt or, you know, or, or smooth grass, then I won't take.
That chair, I'll just take my everyday chair and just jump it that way and land it. You know, as long as the, the train's not really rough then, then regular wheels and just standard wheelchair is, is what I use and I just strapped myself to it. So, uh, you'd said the bridge day was the first object. Can you walk us through the other three that got you to, uh, to para, uh, pase one?
Uh, yeah, so, um, so for para base, my first jump was an antenna because I thought, well, that's how I started my career was, you know, base jump career of, uh, was off an antenna. So I was like, I gotta go back and do another antenna. And then when I decided, okay, I'm gonna go back and redo all the objects, I also was like, I wanna do them in the same order that I did the original ones. So, uh, when I first got my base number, it's, I did an antenna first, a building second.
Um, An Earth third and no, the bridge third and then Earth last. So when I went back for Paraba, I redid the objects in the exact same order. So my second jump base jump was with, was off, uh, uh, Skylon Tower in Niagara Falls. That building? Yeah, a building that we had Nice. Sparky and I had permission for, for 10 years from the owner. He would let us jump off of it. So, you know, that was super cool.
And then with the, when I moved on to the wheelchair, I did the bridge first and then, um, the second one was a building in Malaysia, in Sebu actually was the very first one. Um, and that was with Chuma. Nice. And because, because that, those, that building's only three or three, 400 feet high, I wasn't gonna free fall that, you know, I said, I'll, I'll take the pilot shoot says and, and just go that way.
So, We did that, and then we went to KL Tower and did a few more jumps, and then went back to, uh, back to the pariah a couple years after that for my, for my 10 year anniversary. And, uh, while we were there, Chuma was like, dude, like I've got this great, we can, we can do, we can do the earth here. And then I've got this, this cool, um, free stander down in, uh, maybe New Mexico somewhere down around there.
So, um, we did, we did the, uh, we did the antenna first, and that was with, uh, Juma, myself, Newman and Flanders. Yeah, Flanders. Flanders, yeah, I remember that. Yeah. That was epic. Man. That was just, that was insane, you know, because when I got there I was like, how the hell are, you know, how we gonna get me? And this wheelchair up, this free stander. Right. And you know, Ian and, and Christian, you know, they set up this pulley system and you know, threw a rope over the.
Like a block and tackle up on the underneath the platform. And, uh, threw the rope over it and tied it to me one end. And then, uh, Newman tied the other end of it to a car and just started fucking driving away right as an elevator. And I'll never forget because he took off and I was about, I don't, maybe 30, 40 feet up. And he gets out of the car, he's like, Hey, how is it? I was just like, oh shit. Bricks man. I was like, I don't like this. Let's just like get me, hurry up.
I don't like this at all. Cause I'm hanging off this rope and my chairs hanging out below me, like five feet below me. And it's just like, oh my God, if something goes wrong, I'm gonna be a crumpled mess, you know, tangled up in my chair, you know? Yeah. So, but it worked out great. We, you know, they got me up there wheeled off that, and, uh, and uh, you know, everything was good. And then we went, uh, then we went to the, and did that little, uh, that little short cliff right near the.
Wow. It's interesting that you have, uh, a pretty accomplished paraplegic base career. I remember, uh, helping you with the World Trade Center Tower in Sri Lanka. I mean, you've traveled the entire world, uh, base jumping, and I, I, I like, I'm in awe of that. But I'd also like to go back to the beginning, uh, before and, uh, ask you when and how did you learn how to base jump? Oh man, I did it all wrong. You know, uh, I started jumping and it started base jumping in 90 October, October of 94.
And, you know, most people went to the bridge. And I had a couple of buddies that were gonna go down that were going down to the bridge, but at that time I was working two jobs and I just couldn't get the weekend off. And of course they went down there, came back, and they were like, oh my God, it's fucking awesome. You know, we're based up and we're gonna do this next weekend. We're going to an antenna. I was like, well, I'm going to that, that's for sure. Right.
And you know, they had nobody, you know, there was no courses back then. They had nobody, we had one guy around here that was like, kind of, sort of mentoring us. He had 10 bass shops, you know, expert at that time. Expert at that time. Right. And, uh, so when it all, when it all, we were getting ready for it all to happen, you know, those guys we're still using skydiving gear, even though base equipment, specific base, uh, gear was out. But we weren't, you know, we weren't up to that.
We, we didn't. Know anything about that. So, um, this guy who had his 10 bay jump had done 'em 10 years prior. So it was all Scott, Adam, and Deer, right? So those two guys, they were jumping nine cells or seven cells, which wasn't too bad, but I was jumping in nine cell, you know, mini risers, micro lines, you know, all the things you shouldn't be fucking doing in base. And, uh, I'll never forget, he was like, okay, so I'm gonna show you guys how to pack for bass.
And he is, he's like, you got a flat pack? And I panicked. I was like, I've never flat packed in my life. I learned how to probe pack. I'm not prob, I'm not flatpack cause I don't trust that stuff. I don't, I don't know anything about it. So I said, you do whatever you want, but I'm gonna pack the way I know how to pack. And basically all we did was take the, the bag off the Scott Adam canopy, put a bigger pilot shoot on, and then just coiled.
I didn't even have a, you know, elastics or nothing, just. Just like extension cord coiled, the coiled the lines in the bottom of the pack tray, right? So, uh, we went out to this Santa antenna as a thousand footer and the, the two guys that were had gone to Bridge Day, the weekend before, you know, we start climbing this thing and right away one guy's like, wow, I don't know, he's a little nervous. It's seems like it's a little windy, you know? I don't know.
And I was like, windy, fucking 20 feet off the ground. How the hell can you tell dude? Like, so I was just like, get outta the way. I was down, I was on the bottom of the, you know, the 3, 3, 3 of us. And so I said, just get outta the way. I'm gonna climb past you guys. I'll climb up as fast and as far as I can and see what the winds are like up there, and then I'll just kind of yell down to you what it's like.
So I took off and, you know, adrenaline, I don't know how far I went, but I went as long as I could and the winds were fine. And then so I tried to like, Hey guys. It's good, right? And all they could hear was Charlie Brown. And then they were like, calling up to me and all I could hear was like, cause of the fucking, the metal, right? Yep. So I like, screw it, I'm just gonna keep climbing, right?
And I just kept climbing and, um, I heard somebody climbing back over the fence, so I didn't know if it was the both of them or if it was just one of them, but I heard somebody got off the antenna and, and climbed back over the fence. So I thought, well, I might be here all by myself. So I climbed up to a spot that, um, to me looked good. It was like an ice shield, and it was somewhere that I could actually step out outside of the antenna.
So I got out and sat on this ice shield and I sat there for a while and, and then, you know, I'm, I'm all by myself, don't know nothing. And I started peeking like, fuck me, what am I doing right? So like, I, I need to jump. And the, the whole. Plan was we were gonna wait for sunrise so we could get video of this. So I was, I'd started peeking. I was like, fuck this. I started putting my rag on safe to check myself the whole bit. And then I was like, guys, I can't fucking wait. I need to go now.
And the first time I heard anything all night from any of them was no. And I fucking, and I just laughed, you know? I left all, I just fuck it. I had to go. So I did my first base jump all by myself up there. You know, there was, wow. One of, one of the guys was trying to catch me, but, um, he never did. He said that he was the one that yelled, no, cuz he was trying to catch up to me. And he said, and at that point he saw, you know, he heard me, you know, 3, 2, 1. He said, watched, he watched.
I gotta be honest with you, that sounds terrifyingly dangerous. And I always like to ask the, like, original gangster jumpers. Like what motivated you to get into something that was so wild? Uh, you know, you know, as probably the same answer that a lot of Scott I. Bass jumps give is, you know, I always had those dreams of flying, you know, and a flight, like actually flying. And when I first started skydiving, I thought, yeah, this is, this is what I've been dreaming about.
And I never even heard of bass. But, um, one day, I, I, I, after hours, I kind of slipped into the room, uh, the video room and guys didn't realize that was common. So as I opened up the door and come in, they had some base jumping videos. On the tv, which, you know, still back then it was kind of taboo even on, even on the drop zone, right. So they tried to shut it off, but I had already saw something was like, whoa, what the fuck was that? They're like, nothing, nothing.
Like, God, lock the door, don't let anybody else in, we're gonna show it. And they were, they were jumping off of uh, um, a bank in downtown Toronto at the time and they had some video. And when I saw it I was like, okay, wait. No. That is what I've been dreaming about since I was a little kid. Mm-hmm. Wasn't skydiving. Cuz every time I had dreams of flying, it always started from an object where I just jumped off and then started flying around like Superman or floating around.
Yeah. It wasn't out of an airplane. So I was like, I've gotta do that, I've gotta try that. So, um, yeah. So along the way, uh, and maybe I'll jump around a little bit. What are some of the prouder accomplishments of your base career? Favorite jumps, favorite trips from like that initial like introduction, which, uh, you know, sounds wild and dangerous to, you know, 1100 jumps. And then on to wheelchair base. Uh, what were some of the things that are most memorable?
Uh, you know, um, the first jump that always, whenever somebody asks me about that is the first jump is Angel Falls. You know, I went there with Burt and there was a whole crew of us, Mario Rashard, and, um, so Angel Falls definitely stands out, uh, as one of my favorite chops. Um, and then there's a, there's a dam in Northern Quebec that is just off the charts epic. It's so wild. It's got these rounded. Oh, half moon things and it was from my house.
It's probably, probably about a 22 hour drive. Oh wow. To out there. Commitment. So we, yeah. Commitment. Mm-hmm. And like, I've never been there before. It was only, you know, we heard about this dam that's, that, that, you know, could be chopped. And, uh, so we drove, basically got there at two o'clock in the morning, scoped it out, figured out how to get out, up onto the thing. And then, um, you know, it's pitch black cuz it's in the middle of bum fuck, north, northern Quebec like crazy.
It's this, this massive hydro dam. But um, as soon as you jump off and clear the ledge, it's kind of back cut. So you've gotta launch over and clear this ledge. But once you clear that ledge, The wall is lit up, they've got lights on shining onto the wall. So you go from this like pitch black, nothing to all of a sudden, boom, it just lights right up. And, oh, sick. Wild dude. Like wild.
And of course there's this, you know, this raging river below it cuz it's a, you know, it's a big make big massive dam, right? And then landing's kinda technical and a little tight, but it was just off the charge. It was insane. You know, so that's, that's one that always, always stands out. So how about, uh, standout characters in your world? You know, I, I know that a lot of people stick with a, a small crew and, you know, you've been in the game for a long time.
Have there been, uh, any standout figures along your base progression? Uh, you know, always, always the first one to stand out is Sparky. Right. You know, like Sparky and I, we did, I dunno, I think I looked through my log book at one point and Sparky and I had done 800 jumps together over the years. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. You know, he was my pro and, you know, he wasn't there for the accident, which is probably a good thing.
Um, and then of course Bert, you know, Bert's just a, you know, he's an amazing character. The guy is just, you know, he's, he's everything to do with aviation, you know, he is a paragliding pilot. He's an glider pilot. He's a Bush pilot. He's a sky diver. He is a bass jumper, you know, and then on top of that, he's just got this crazy wild, um, um, Imagination that he comes up with, like some of the most ridiculous jobs you'd ever think of.
Like, like the Mr. Burt, which, you know, everybody knows what a Mr. Bill is, but a Mr. Burt is you do the Mr. Bill, but instead of letting, uh, letting go, then you hang upside down and open your pairs, which automatically turns it into a downplay, you know? And so, and, and he, and he did that, uh, in skydiving, but he's also done it off at Bridge Day. He's done You're talking Burier. Yeah, Burran, yeah.
Yeah. You know, the guy's got this crazy imagination and he always comes up with these really wacky jobs. And, you know, a lot of times I'm like, okay, wait a second, let's talk that through, because that really sounds kind of fucked up. But, you know, he puts a lot of thought into it and you sure as safe, safe as possible. And when you start talking to him, The jump, it's like, okay, wait a minute. Yeah. That, you know, we could probably make that happen, right? So, yeah.
Yeah. Man, I remember meeting that guy for the first time on Tombstone. He was jumping a full body banana suit, and I thought this is the most ridiculous shit. Like, and not to mention, which the irony that it would be if you like splatted in a banana splatted. Yeah. And sure enough, like he jumps off dead, 180 kicks off the wall, turns it around, gets into the landing area, we're like terrified. We jump land next to him, you know? And turns out like he's not crazy.
He's one of the most intelligent people I've ever met. Yeah. He's, he's, he's wild. Right. You know, but he's got some crazy ideas, man, that, that, you know, that work out, you know, that definitely work out. So, um, you know, and then I'm, there's just, you know what it's like, man, there's just so many carers in the, in, in, in the. You know, in the community. Right. It's, and some of them are still here, some of 'em are not. Right.
Yeah. And, and that's, that's kind of leading into the next question of, you know, it's a pretty small room of people who have been jumping 30 years. I mean, you first jump in 94, you know, three decades of jumping, and it's, uh, that's like a, that's like a long dinner table of people. Um, how have you seen the culture change over those years? Um, you know, the, when I started it was the whole mentor thing. You had to have a mentor, although I didn't have one.
Um, the guy who, you know, the guy who was kind of our mentor in the beginning with his 10 base shops, you know, I eclipsed that pretty fast and, you know, and the stuff that, that. Like, there's so much that he didn't even know. And there was really nobody around here that, that was actively jumping that I could, you know, I could get as a mentor.
So basically Sparky and I, we just went about it all on our own and, and uh, and figured it things out as, as we went, you know, he would go and do something and be like, oh fuck, that didn't work. We didn't try. Alright, we gotta think that through again. We're not gonna do that again.
And then, you know, other times she'd be like, oh wow, you know, like I was really, I was really afraid of, cause you know, you're afraid of, oh, you know, if you got winds close to the wire, cuz you know, antennas around here is most of what we job. So it's like, in the beginning it was like, oh, you know, the wind's like. 10 degrees off the wire, that's not good enough. We're going, we're climbing back down, right? And then over the, over time, and it's like, oh, the wind's crossing the wire.
Who cares? Fuck it. I'm gonna go anyway. So, and, and so we, we, we actually learned as we went and now, you know, there's obviously good points to it and, and bad points to it as well as the whole, you know, it's kinda like Walmart shopping for, for base courses, you know, is there's, there's probably a dozen different places you can go to take a course and, you know, and it's a weekend and, you know, you, you, you, some are better than others, some are more in depth.
But, you know, they get these, they get the information, enough information for them to, to, you know, okay, I can base jump off the prine, I can do this. And then, and then they go back and I, it seems like they go back to what. There's not a lot of mentors or, or, or people that are, that are there wherever they are to, to kinda walk them through the, the process of, of getting past that, that super dangerous time. Right.
Where you've got enough, you've got enough knowledge to, to be dangerous. To survive. Yeah. And enough knowledge to kill yourself at the same time. Right. So yeah, there's something to be said for coming up the way you did and, and knowing that you know nothing. And so having to figure out everything as you go versus like getting into the sport with a false sense of security and then finding out Oh, uh, should have known that. Yeah. Right.
Yeah. And, and you know, the, the difference too with, you know, with the, where you can go to the prime, you can pound in, like, you know, five if you really want, go five, 10 jumps in a day, and then as opposed to coming back. Like in my area, there's, that's not possible, right? Like, the way we, everything around here was always, I, I never did a, uh, a daytime base jump until a couple years into this, into the sport. Everything I did was, you know, under the cloak of darkness.
So, you know, nowadays you talk to base jumpers about, you know, doing night jumps and even night jumps. You know, a lot of people are like, oh, I don't know. You know, you can't really see. How do you, you know, how do you avoid objects as well? Well, first of all, you go look at the thing fucking in the daytime, so you know where everything is. And second of all, you can actually see in the dark, especially once you're out there for a little while. Right.
So, you know, it just, I find it the fact that, that people can go somewhere and get. Proper knowledge from, you know, someone like yourself or you know, an APEX course or from Chuma or you know, Dukes and, you know, all the reputable guys. That is a good thing because they're not getting what I got a guy with Ted Base jumps going, Hey man, we're just gonna, you know, don't worry. Just coil your fucking lines up in the bottom of the tray and you'll be all right.
So they're getting the, this, the, the knowledge, the safety knowledge, you know, the basics, which is I think is awesome. But it's, you know, what, what happens in the next step to, you know, yeah. How can we, how can we improve that? How do you feel about, uh, the access being, uh, widened? Do you think that it's made, made the sport more dangerous, less dangerous? I mean, back in your day, certainly people were gate kept out of it that, you know, rightfully should be in it.
But, uh, it seems like eventually they found an inroad and, and nowadays, uh, everyone's led in that wants to get into it. Uh, but that lends to a lot of people that probably shouldn't be base jumping right now, uh, getting into it before they're ready. How, how do you, how do you feel about that? Uh, you know, that's, that's, how do you, how do you vet that out? That's really hard to do. Right.
You know, and, and you know, places like, you know, like Apex in their course and, and Chuma and you know, everybody else, you know, it's, they're, they're putting a lot of time into developing their course and to run these courses. And of course, you know, they, they've gotta be reimbursed for that. But, You know, it's, it's tough to, because they don't know these people. It's not like back in the day where, you know, if you took somebody, it was somebody from your DZ and you knew them.
So you could see what kind of a personality they were around the drop zone. You know, the guy's a bonehead, well, forget it. You're not, I'm not taking you out cuz I know what kind of guy you are. Right? Yeah. Whereas, you know, with these courses, they don't get a chance to really get to know that person on a personal basis.
So, you know, it's, it's super tough and, you know, I just, I'm not sure what the answer is, is, you know, how can you, you know, how do we vet these people that really, you know, aren't getting into it for the wrong reasons or who are um, Really not ready for the sport. That's, you know, how do you, how do you do that? I don't know. Well, that's a, that's a great question.
And, and one on my list for you is what's, what are some important questions someone getting into the sport can ask themselves? Uh, I would say, you know, first, first question is, you know, what's, what's the reason you wanna get into it? You know, do you wanna be the next, you know, YouTube superstar? Well then you're, you're definitely getting into this sport for the wrong reasons and, and you're either going to be extremely disappointed or you're gonna be dead. You know?
So I would say that that's the, the, the first question. Um, and then, From there? I'm, I don't know. Hmm. Well, if it all starts with motivation, then, uh, how have your motivations changed over the years, or have they? Oh, don't totally, dude. You know, you know, it's, it's, uh, you know, it's one of those things they say, you know, the older you get, uh, you know, things change and you mature. And maturity only comes from experience. And the experience only comes from fuck it up, right?
So, um, which I've done a lot of. So, yeah, the, for me, the motivation is, uh, you know, in the beginning it was, it was more about the jumps. You know, I loved the jumps, I loved the whole, you know, cloak and dagger and the clandestine thing. You know, it's funny, I always listen to Crawford. Uh, the interview did with Crawford recently and Yeah. You know, the whole urban thing and it was like, oh, I, yeah, man, I love that. I love that shit.
You know, like sneaking in, figuring out how you're gonna get there, how you're gonna get this, and how you're gonna pull it off. And then on top of that, make it repeatable, you know? Yeah. Total. He always my, yeah. To totally. And that was always my, you know, that was always kind of my, my goal with objects is, you know, I wanna make this repeatable, so if nobody sees what happens, then I can redo it. I can do it over and over again until, you know, eventually somebody figures something out.
So, you know, the motivation in the beginning was a lot more about the jumps and, and now as I've aged, it's more about the, the friendships and, and the time spent with, with the people, you know? Yeah. And I think that as, as a young jumper, I. You know, if I were to say if I had any regrets, uh, as a, as a young jumper was not allowing that part of it to, to, to really drink that part of it in, it was more about, you know, yeah, let's fucking jump. Let's do it.
You know, let's go do another one and not really, you know, take in the, the, the com camaraderie and the friendship and, you know, and just, you know, hanging out with, with, with my bros. Right. So is that the advice that you would give to the next generation of base jumper? Basically slow down and enjoy the people. Yeah. Slow, slow down, enjoy the experience, you know, uh, objects aren't gonna go anywhere. And of course, this is all cliche shit that everybody says too, right?
It's like, oh, the object's not going anywhere. Slow down. But, you know, really take your time and enjoy. Enjoy the, the full experience of, of doing a job and being there with, you know, with your buddies, with, with whoever and, and, and just soak it all in because, you know, we're doing stuff that we're doing shit, man, that, that, you know, 99.9% of the population would never do. Yeah. You know, and, and even if they had the opportunity, they wouldn't do it. And they don't do it.
And yet we're out there doing it on a regular basis. So soak that in because, you know, it's a special, it's a special feeling and it's a special group of people that we're with. Totally. I mean, I can relate to that. I mean, I, I've done thousands of jumps. I can't even remember a quarter of them. So I Right. I, I risked my life on all of them. What was it for? Exactly, dude. Right. You know, so take, take those in, you know, like Yeah.
You know, like the jumps in Sri Lanka, man, like, those, those, to me, those are special jobs, you know, like I remember those, you know, I remember, remember that wild trip? What a wild trip that was, right. It was awesome. You know, ups and downs and, you know, wild, wild, blessed show kinda stuff going on and, you know, and, and, uh, you know, the people on that, on that Lankan trip, the people are, what made that. So special.
It wasn't the jumps, you know, it wasn't the fact that we were jumping off of the, the World Trade Center in Colombo or the Bank of Salon, which happened to be called B O C, which is kind of cool, you know? Yeah. But it, you know, the jumps were, were cool and all, but it was the people, it was, you know, it was the people we were hanging with for that, for that time. Man, I'm just glad we made it back from that trip with everybody.
Uh, you know, like we, we nearly lost Cunningham on a, on a parachute malfunction. Chris Carnahan and I almost got shot by some, some, uh, security force in a building. We were trying to jump, we all almost got kidnapped by our own tour company. It was pretty gnarly. Oh man. Well, I, I gotta, I gotta jump back to some of the mistakes, um, because one of the things I, I want to hear about is the story about how you ended up in a wheelchair. Uh, yeah, man. Yeah. That, uh, that famous jump, right?
And, you know, looking back it was, you know, just getting, um, I got complacent, you know, 1100 jumps, you know, this is just, just a job. And, and, but at the same time, you know, like you had said earlier in all thousands of jumps, what it, what it came down to was like, okay, this is my 1100th, I've got tons of jumps that I can't even remember. I want this one to be one that I remember. So we were, we had enough Canadians there to, to set new Canadian base record.
And on top of that, I'd been, you know, working on aerials while I was there. And I decided, okay, uh, I was working on like twisting stuff, but I was like, okay, I'm just gonna do a quad gainer on this. And what year was this? Just to give people some perspective. This is, uh, 2004. Okay. So like aerials were just coming out onto the scene. There were very few people doing them. Uh, quad Gainer was one of the most epic tricks that somebody could throw in the base world at the time.
Am I correct? Uh, it was, it was definitely, I think it was, you know, it was pushing the limits for sure. From the prime right. To, to throw four. Yeah. Um, and I'd been, we had been there for a while and I was, I was throwing triples and I was, okay, I've got, I've got time for four, I can do four.
Um, but because we were doing, we were doing a, a multi-way, it was a seven way, um, basically what happened was I was kind of organizing the thing and then I didn't take enough time for myself, you know, get on, get over the rail, you know, and, and prepare myself. Cuz I remember thinking, holy shit, these guys are all like hanging off of the rail, waiting for me to climb over cuz I was helping somebody else. And, uh, I distinctly remember feeling rushed, like, I need to go.
And as soon as I laughed I was like, oh my God, I fucked that one up. I'm flipping too slow. Like immediately I was like, I'm flipping too slow. And it went through my mind like, okay, well you know, me. If I was by myself, I would've said, I would've just laughed him, but, well, it ain't doing four on this one, man. Cause you're, you know, it's a double, like throw it out after a double.
But because of the way the dive was designed, it was gonna be a big V where I was at the bottom opening last, and it went through my mind like, if I open early, I'm gonna open right in the airspace of the other two guys. And so I was like, I gotta do all four. Oh my God, you know, God, everything slow. You know, everything, you know, time slows down. You know, it was like, oh, there it goes. Two. Oh, fuck yeah, I'm getting low. And three, and.
You know, and I rushed that deployment on the fourth one, and literally a split second too soon, threw it out there. Pod shoot came out, wrapped around my foot, and it was a full on streamer, hung me upside down and I hit the water, like, full speed. Jesus, man. Yeah. Well, I gotta tell you, I mean, like hearing this story, going back to, uh, who you are as a person, the first question I asked you, I mean, that's a real testament to who you are.
The person that's gonna base jump with their life on the line and be more, uh, you know, more concerned about what's happening above them than below them. You know, that that takes a special kind of person to, to put their life on the line like that and say like, yeah, there's a percentage chance that if I open too soon that I'm gonna mess up one of my buddies. And so instead of that, I'm gonna put it, put it all into the drink, if, you know, I'd rather that than, uh, than take somebody with me.
So, man, yeah, man. Yeah. What happened? What happened after you landed? Uh, so I hit the water, um, you know, full, full speed, right? And, uh, uh, I wasn't too far off as shore, like most people, wherever the exit point is there, right? So you end up not far off to off the shore, maybe 15, 20 feet away. So I hit the water, I hit the bottom, and to me it was all one massive impact. I didn't feel like I hit the water. Then the bottom, it was just boom, and I was on the bottom.
And, you know, the first thing that went through my mind was, holy fuck, that hurt. And then I was like, I gotta get outta the water. And I tried to, I tried to start swimming, but at that point, from the impact, I was paralyzed from the neck down. I couldn't move my arms, I couldn't move my legs, I couldn't move anything. And I have no idea why. But you know, the, the. Next thought that went through my mind was, uh, a dolphin.
And I was like, a dolphins don't have arms and legs and you know, they just kind of porous through the fucking Yep. The water with their head. So I just started moving my head back and forth and, and, and wiggling my way back up. And somehow I managed it to get to the surface and, uh, and catch, catch a breath. And then, uh, don the, the old boat guy, he was, who used to have that, that pontoon boat years ago. Yeah. He was quite a ways down.
Um, he got, he finally got to me and basically pulled my head above water because, um, I made it to the surface, but I couldn't stay there. I sok back down. So I was actually underwater holding my breath and thinking, holy fuck, I can't believe that, you know, I just survived all that and now I'm gonna drown like literally a few inches from the surface.
And, uh, and then, You know, I started, I was at the point where I was starting to black out, and I just remember thinking like, don't breathe, because if you breathe, you're dead. For sure. So just keep holding your breath. And, you know, and he kind of, he pulled my head above water and, and saved my life and, you know, and they dragged me in.
And, you know, the last thing I remember is as they pulled me up onto the pontoon boat, you know, I shattered my femur, my back, my neck, everything was all fucked up. But, you know, just looking at my legs and as they pulled me onto the pontoon boat and my, my one leg was going in directions it shouldn't fucking go. And the other one was just flopping, like, like, there was nothing there. And I, I thought, wow, wow, that's not good.
And it was at that point that I, you know, my brain I think said, okay, you can, you can relax now. And I block out, so. Wow. Yeah, man. But I wasn't, Lucky for me. I wasn't, I wasn't knocked out from the, from the initial impact or I wouldn't be here today because, you know, my body would've just naturally tried to take a breath and I would've drowned. Yeah. The fact that I was conscious the whole time and holding my breath is the only thing that saved me. Yeah, that sounds incredible.
Like to take that kind of impact and still be conscious. Did you, do you remember what hit first? Did you go on feet first? Head first? No, no, no. I was upside down, dude. I was up, I was still, everything ended me up. My foot was tangled up and I was ha I was hung upside down. So it was basically my shoulders and the back of my head that, that hit. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. So fast forward, uh, you know, you wake up in the hospital, they're doing all this stuff to you.
Uh, can you walk me through what it was like to learn about, you know, what the extent of these injuries was? I. Uh, yeah. Yeah, that was a tough one, man. Um, you know, as I said earlier, touch on earlier that, you know, when I woke up out of intensive care, uh, you know, first question was, you know, how long will it, how long do you think it'll be before I can jump again? And the doctor saying, you know, sorry, you're paralyzed so you'll never jump again.
Um, the acceptance of what was to be was, was super tough. Um, you know, I was absolutely in denial for a while. I was like, you know what? You guys don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I will, I'll get back, I'll, I'll be, I'll be up and running around like nothing in no time at all. And, you know, so I hit the, you know, from, from there. They, I went to a rehab hospital and I was in that rehab hospital for another four months and I was in the gym every single day.
Push and push and trying to get what I could. Um, It was probably about three, four months in that the reality started to settle in, that I was not, I was never going to be the same. Um, and that, that was a tough one, man. It takes, you know, be honest. It it, it takes you down. And I probably hit my darkest time after I did my very first base jump. You know, everybody was worried about, you know, oh, you know, he is gonna try and do this job and kill himself.
And, but I was so focused on that's what I needed to do for myself. I needed to do at least one more base jump. And once I did that job, then there was a, a period of time of like, well, now what? Yeah, I'm gonna, this is, this is, this is gonna be the rest of my life. Like this. I'm gonna be in a chair. And I was, I was the kind of guy that everybody called for help because I was always there and I loved to do it.
And I was always, you know, I was that guy that people looked to and now I needed to look to everybody else. And that was super hard, super hard to live with because, you know, I was so independent before and I never asked for help from anybody. And then, you know, like something as simple as, you know, a bag of groceries, I couldn't even, you know, I couldn't even get a bag of groceries outta my car by myself, you know, that kind of stuff. So it was, it was super tough for a while.
And then luckily I, you know, I made it through that. And then on the other side, and I was like, all right, well then, You know, I must be, I must be around here for, for something. And if I'm gonna be around here, then I'm gonna make the best of it I can and just, just keep, keep pushing hard. And, you know, if I die tomorrow, then I die tomorrow. And, and, but I'm gonna live my life as best as I can. I don't wanna die tomorrow anymore.
But, you know, I still need to, I still need to live my life to the best way I can. And, and that is, you know, doing things that, that aren't normal. You know, I couldn't give up base, I couldn't give up to Scott having, because for me, that was a passion.
And, you know, I love the sport so much, and yeah, I know the risks are there, but I think the, the one thing that was so hard for me to accept, and the reason why it went to a dark place was that, I started thinking I'm not gonna be able to do everything that I used to be able to do. You know, the, the doctors are trying to convince me that I could do wheelchair tennis or I could do wheelchair basketball. I was like, what the fuck? I never did that shit when I was upright.
Think I'm gonna do that now. No. Like, and then, you know, like that feeling of maybe that's all I'm going to be able to do. And, and to me that was no life. You know, I, I couldn't, I couldn't see myself going through life of just doing normal, mundane bullshit, you know, in, in my mind, you know? And of course that's, that's just my way of saying I'm not trying to put down anybody who doesn't do the stuff that we do. It's just that's not how I can, I just can't live my life like that.
And, For other people, they can't, they can't fathom living their life the way I do. The same as, I can't fathom living my life the way they, they do. And that just, you know, we're just different. You know, people are different and, and we need, we need different people. Like, like they need maniacs, like you and I, and they also need the people who are super safe, or we'd all fucking be dead, right? Yeah. The whole planet would, you know, we'd all die off because we're all a bunch of nut bars.
But if you don't have the, the nut bars like you and I, then, then the human race doesn't evolve because nobody's taking risks. They need people like us and we need people like that. So what I'm hearing mostly from you is don't sacrifice your drive or your passions. Yeah, man. Never, you know, I've, I, you know, it's one of the things that I told my kids when they were young is, you know, find something you're passionate about and then pursue that as much as you possibly kept.
Because, you know, the, a job or the car, the fancy car, the big house, that's not where the real happiness is. The happiness comes from within and comes from passion. And if you're, if you're not passionate about something, you know, you're, you're not gonna be fully happy. You're truly happy. So, you know, you find your passion. Certainly you've given us a lot to think about on that side.
Um, and I, I want to dig just a little deeper on this topic because, you know, base jumping does see a lot of people getting seriously injured, and a lot of us construct our identities around, you know, these things. And, you know, once we ha like, go through that loss, it's, it's really difficult. And I've seen people go through the darkest depressions of their life just with like, simple injuries.
Uh, do you have any other advice for people that, uh, are trying to struggle through those, those injuries? Yeah. You know, um, one, one of the things I I, I say to people is that, you know, we all go through stuff and, you know, even, you know, as you say, sometimes people are like, simpler injuries than what I've had, but the struggle is still the same and it's, it's still, it's still as hard and.
You know, I say when you peel, once you peel back all the layers of, of whatever, all of the bullshit, it, it comes down. Really, it comes down to two choices. You can either curl up in a fetal position and suck your thumb and say, I want my mommy, this sucks.
Or you can say, this sucks, but, but, and as soon as you say the word, but you've just opened up the whole world, you don't want to try to pretend or convince yourself that a situation or an injury or something that that's really shitty going on in your life. You don't wanna try to convince yourself that, that it doesn't suck because it does. Yeah. And if you try to pretend like it doesn't, that's not healthy mentally, you know, you're not dealing with it. Right.
You're not gonna be able to move past it. So acknowledge that it sucks. And it, because it does. And then just say the word, but, and then nice from there, you do your own thing. Go, go, go wherever, wherever you want from there. But once you say the word, but you've, you, you've just opened up all kinds of, uh, you know, the whole world basically for yourself. So, um, what I'm gaining from that is basically honesty is the key here. Like, yes, all this sucks.
Yes, you're, you know, you're not gonna be the same as you were, but also it is honest to say that there's so much else that can be accomplished. So don't leave that on the table. Yeah. So, uh, on that line, what else are you doing? Because, uh, I know a bit more about you than bass jumping. Uh, and uh, so can you fill us in on what else you've become passionate about, uh, since being injured? Uh, yeah, man. So it's, uh, It's almost 10 years ago, I got introduced to the sport of bobsled.
And uh, you know, I've been, uh, kind kind of jumped into that full, full steam ahead. It was, um, it was so similar to the skydiving and base jumping, it blew my mind. You know, it's the high speed, high adrenaline, uh, the focus, you know, the, the using that adrenaline and using the fear from the track. Cause you know, you're going down the track, like we're going down the track in someplace like Whistler, the fastest track in the world, you know, hitting close speeds 80 miles an hour.
So next to the ice, no, there's, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and, and you're going down a frozen water tube. So, um, you know, the adrenaline is there and you know, it's, and it is a bit scary, but, you know, you use that fear to focus the same as skydiving and, um, The same as skydiving. You don't, you don't steer a bobsled with a wheel. It's basically two toggles. So you want to go right, you pull right, you want to go left, you pull left.
And then, you know, on top of that, most tracks around the world are roughly one minute long. Hmm. Which is the same as the skydive. So, you know, I, I had all these similarities that I could draw from in the Scott Agon world and, uh, you know, and I started competing in, in Bob's side. And, you know, I absolutely loved the sport, but, uh, well, not just competing, it's not like this is a hobby for you. Can you fill us in on. Uh, where you've taken it?
Uh, yeah, I've, I've, I've been to, uh, I I've been all over. I've got, I've got a few, uh, overall world, world Championship, world Cup titles and world Championships, and I just recently got back from Switzerland a couple days ago from, from World Championships in, uh, San Switzerland. And, uh, didn't have exactly have the performance I was hoping for. I took fourth place, but, you know, it's not too bad.
And the funny thing is, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm starting to feel my age, you know, and I'm 58 years old, and, and I'm, you know, they hadn't, they had an interview there. They said, oh, you know, how do you feel like, you know, competing against some of these, some of these young guys that could be your son? And I just, you know, I, I quietly chuckled and I was like, could be my son. I was thinking in my head, they could be my grandson for Christ sake. 20 years be my grandson.
So, You know, it's kind of fun, but you know, at the same time, you know, I'm getting up there in aids, so I don't know how much, uh, how much I got left in me. I'm hoping to, um, to at least see the sport get to be accepted as a full Paralympic sport because we're not a full Paralympic sport yet.
There's requirements that, that we have to make, which is, um, we have to have a minimum of 12 nations competing for four consecutive years, and those 12 nations have to be the exact same 12 from year one to year four. And we kind of got screwed over on the last bid because that part of it wasn't explained to us. We did the four years and we were like, okay, well we had 12 nations, you know, let us in.
And they came back and said, well, you know, technically, you know the rural states that you got the, it has to be the exact same 12. And we had 11. Oh man. Yeah, dude. It was like just heartbreaker gut. Oh yeah. Gut wrenching, heartbreaking Pernol. It's like, you kidding me? And on top of that, the 12th Nation was Germany and they were there for three of the four years. And we j had we known, we would've just pushed them to be there.
But yeah, you know, now, you know, hindsight's 2020, but we're now on year three and we've had the exact same 13 nations competing even through Covid. Which is, which is a pretty good accomplishment because, you know, through Covid was, was difficult to, you know, the US was not allowed to, so they're not part of our original 13 cuz they weren't allowed to compete. Nobody, nobody wanted the, anyone from the states to, they weren't allowed to go in anywhere.
And we have no races in the states either. So we're looking really good next year if we have. Um, the same 12 or 13, then that should fulfill all the requirements and hopefully we'll, uh, we'll get accepted into the Paralympics. And, and if that happens, then at that point, I think I can, uh, I can roll away from the sport with, uh, satisfaction. Um, what's it, what's it like representing your country? Is that something that you think you would've done if you hadn't have gotten injured?
No, there's no way I ne I, you know, it's, I, I'd never done anything. Well, I'd competed in four-way skydiving, but, um, never had a level that I could go to, like the international competition. Right. Um, it's, it's pretty amazing. You know, it's, it was, it was a bit of a surprise the first time. When, you know, we had international competitions and I, I had won the race and, you know, they're playing your national anthem and, you know, it was kind of like, oh wow. Like this is pretty cool.
Right. You know, it's, it, uh, it gets you in the fields, that's for sure, man. So it's, uh, it's a proud moment, you know, to, to be able to, you know, be up on the podium and, and hear your, your national anthem at a, at a race and, you know, that's, it's, it's pretty cool. Well, uh, certainly I know from, uh, uh, experience here in the states that it's really ha hard to be an Olympic athlete, you know, it's not a very supported, uh, enterprise.
Is there any way that, uh, the people listening to our podcast can support you, uh, by either donations or anything else like this? Do you have something set up? Uh, no, no. You know, I, I've, I've had a lot of people say to me, you know, I should have a GoFundMe or something because we get zero funding, or, or at least Canada, I get zero funding to, to go to any of these races.
Um, but I, I've never been comfortable with that because I feel like if I were to set up a GoFundMe, most likely the people who are gonna be donating are gonna be friends. And I, you know, I don't, cause we don't, yeah. But I don't, I don't, I don't feel like my friends should be, should be, you know, financing my fucking, you know, ridiculousness of, of traveling the world and having fun down the bob set track.
I would prefer to have like a corporate sponsor, somebody like Red Bull or Coca-Cola that. That I don't feel bad taking their money. I, you know, I, I just don't feel right taking money from my friends for me to go and do stuff. And on that, on, are you looking for sponsorship and how can they find you? Yeah, a hundred percent, man. I'm always looking for sponsors. Um, you know, the best way of social media, right. You know, Instagram, Facebook, um, then that would be perfect.
Yeah, that'd be great then. Well, we'll, we'll certainly post all of those. Uh, and now jump in, uh, back into base jumping world. I kind of wanna reflect on the career that you've had and ask you some questions. Um, what are some of the things that you've gained from base jumping, uh, friendships? Friendships that, um, never, ever would've made?
Friendships as close as I have in base, jumping in in the regular world, you know, um, before I started in the sport of Scott, I, I had friends that I thought I was close with and we were tight, but nothing compares, you know, pales in comparison to the, to the, the connection that we have in this community. When, when you've shared an edge with somebody and you've shared a jump with somebody knowing that either one of you may not survive, they may might not come up.
This, you know, there is always that chance that, you know, you're gonna step off the edge with somebody and, and that'll be the last time you talk to 'em. And I think that, um, that makes a really special connection with somebody and, yeah. So for me, the, you know, the, the biggest thing is that I've gotten out of the sport is, is the friendships. The friendships that, you know, will last a lifetime.
Whether I quit jumping or whether they quit jumping it, you know, that, that connection with someone, you know, it just, it does, it doesn't go away. And, you know, I think that's the, the greatest asset to, to the sport for myself. Aside from the injuries that you sustained, what was the cost of base jumping over the years? Anything else that you can put in the category of loss?
You know, friendships, you know, back to back to that, you know, loss of, loss of some, some really amazing people that, you know, of course you, you're super tight with and, um, and that's always the, the hard part of the sport, you know, and, but I think that, It has to be that way because it would just be, you know, still the, the like, like the universe has to stay somehow in balance.
And if you have these super amazing and connections and, and these super, super highs with, with jumping, you know, to keep things equal, the lows, you know, the, the, the price for it has to be quite high to otherwise it's just, it wouldn't be right. You know, it wouldn't be fair, you know? Yeah. From a gambling perspective, uh, you can't lose much, not putting your chips in the middle, but you can't win much either. Exactly, exactly.
If we look at it that way, from a balanced perspective, you know, looking back, uh, was it worth it? Oh, yeah. Yeah. How do I, um, another way to answer the ask this question is, uh, do you regret anything? Would you have done anything differently? Yeah. You know, if, if, if, if I had done, if I could do anything differently, it would've been that one jump.
You know, obviously, um, you know, I've had a lot of people ask me over the years that, you know, if I could take it all back, would I, and I always try to clarify because, you know, if somebody's gonna ask me if I could take back that one jump, fuck yeah, of course I would. Right? I'd be an idiot, not you. But if I had to take back every single jump and not do any of them. That one. I honestly can't answer it. I know.
I don't know if I would say, yeah, you know, take me back and I don't get to do any of those jumps, but I get to be fully healthy and up and walking around because as, as tough as that was, it also brought me to where I am today. Which, you know, I've done some, some really cool stuff, you know, like you and I, you and I never would've met if, if, if I didn't have that and, you know, and everybody else in the community too.
So, you know, it's a super hard one, you know, and it's, you know, the only regret that, that I can say I had is, is, is that one jump. I wish I would've slowed down a little bit before that jump. Hmm. If someone looked at your base career in total, What would you want them to take away from it? Uh, he's a, he's a stubborn son of a bitch. I don't know. You know, um, or, or stupid or both.
Right. Uh, you know, I always, I always say, you know, a smart guy would've fucking quit by now or after that, Joe. But, um, you know, I don't know, man, that I would like, I would, I would, I would hope that people would look at it and, and say that I, I, you know, I, I wasn't someone who gave up and, you know, that I always gave it my best and that I, that I tried to help others throughout, throughout the, you know, from day one until, until my last day.
You know, I'm, I'll always try to help people and, and hopefully, uh, hopefully they can get some, some positive. Out of, out of, you know, out of that, that's an interesting thing to leave behind since there are a large segment of our population that would view all base jumping as selfish. How do you feel about that? Uh, you know, I, I, I dislike that word starfish. You know, my, my ex used that a lot.
And, um, my definition of selfishness is trying to get someone else to do something for you, to make you happy. It's not me doing something that makes me happy, that doesn't make me selfish. Yeah. Um, you know, the best thing that we can give to the people around us and the people that we love is the best version of ourself.
And the best version of ourself is to follow your passions no matter what it is, whether it's bass jumping or whether it's crochet, you know, um, that is not being selfish, trying to be the best person you can be. And, you know, I, I, I dislike that, that phrase that, you know, people think we're selfish because we're not out to deliberately hurt anybody. We're not doing things that deliberately hurt someone else, just so that we can feel good. We're doing what we love to do for ourselves.
And, and that's, I think, that's all that, that anyone could do. I love it, and that's a great place to end. Uh, Lonnie, thank you so much for joining us. Yeah. Uh, I really appreciate you taking the time. Thanks, man. I pretty really appreciate it. Really appreciate it. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you have any thoughts about what you've heard or suggestions about what you'd like to hear, we'd love to hear from you.
So please don't hesitate to hit us up Big shout out to Mark Stockwell, our sound mixer and co-producer. We greatly appreciate your time and expertise. If you'd like to learn more about the podcast, please visit exit point podcast.com. See you on the next one, and until then, come find us on the exit points.