"excellence, actually" is a podcast from The Growth Equation, hosted by Steve Magness, Brad Stulberg, and Clay Skipper. Drawing on their years of working and corresponding with Olympians, coaches, executives, world-class physicians, and other elite-level achievers in their coaching practice and professional careers, they give you the mental and physical tools, practices, habits, and frameworks used by the best in the world in the pursuit of excellence. Each episode will give you concrete ideas and tips to use in your life immediately to help you become more meaningfully engaged in the pursuits that support your goals and your values. This is not the performative nonsense that is peddled online by grifters and influencers, but the evidence-based systems that work for the best in the world. This is excellence, actually. (This podcast used to appear under the name FAREWELL.)
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Not just one, but two (!) men finished this past weekend's London Marathon in under two hours, a time that has never before been beat and was once largely thought to be impossible. Today, we unpack how it happened: the advances in running shoe and fueling technology that made this moment possible, the giant elephant on the podium (the ever present question of doping), and what we can all learn about harnessing the power of belief, confidence, and competition to push past our own perceived limits...
There's a good reason you can't concentrate. That's not just a statement; it's also the title of a viral piece that our friend Cal Newport (author of Deep Work and Digital Minimalism) recently wrote for The New York Times. Cal argues that we're at a precarious moment in the history of thinking. The ease and convenience of technology and digital media (think: junk food for your brain) have negatively impacted our cognition, which means we need to start taking our cognitive health as seriously as ...
Today, Clay taps into Steve's wisdom as a long-time running coach—which doesn't mean you have to be a runner to get something out of it. The episode covers the most efficient type of aerobic training for any athlete (hint: it's not Zone 2 or HIIT), the mindset and mentality that sets elite runners apart, what makes for a great coach-athlete relationship, how much mileage you need to maximize your performance, super shoes, and, yes, even running influencers. Plus: Steve talks about his truly unhi...
Once an addict, Eric Zimmer is now 26 years sober. He has made that one huge change through a series of many small, daily changes, or what he calls "low resistance actions done consistently over time in the same direction." His theory of behavior change is at the heart of his successful coaching practice, his wonderful podcast, The One You Feed, and his great new book, "How A Little Becomes A Lot: The Art of Small Changes for a More Meaningful Life." Today, he joins Brad and Clay to share the th...
This past weekend, in the men's NCAA tournament, Duke led UConn by 19 points and had a 99% chance to win and advance to the Final Four. Instead, Duke improbably blew their lead, and UConn stormed furiously back to win on a last-second shot. We analyze both sides of that performance, answering two questions that apply not just to basketball but to life: How do you stay focused and maintain effort when the odds of success seem insurmountable? And how do you stay aggressive and not get defensive wh...
March Madness has given us some incredible moments between coaches and their players. Today, we use one in particular — the viral moment between Maryland's coach Brenda Frese and star player Oluchi Okananwa (you can watch it at the link below) — as a jumping off point to talk about leading and motivating more broadly. What can all of us learn from the moment between Frese and Okananwa? How should we use and distribute validation? When does intensity help and when does it hurt? When might negativ...
Today, we unpack one of the most universal performance problems: getting in your own way. Drawing on the "Self 1 vs. Self 2" framework from The Inner Game of Tennis , neuroscience, and child psychology, we explore why caring too much can be the very thing that tanks your performance — and what to actually do about it. From fourth-grade Turkey trots to Roger Bannister's sub-four-minute mile, we cover the many forms of self-sabotage (before, during, and the night before the big day), how to be a "...
What do success and failure have in common? They can both trap you. Success can lead to complacency or a plateau, and failure can render you so discouraged or apathetic that you don't feel ready to try again. That's not a fun place to be! So today we're discussing how you can build and keep momentum, no matter the reason you might get stuck. Drawing on wisdom that ranges from NBA star Steph Curry to the ancient Buddhist priest Takuan Sōhō, we about talk momentum killers (and how to avoid them), ...
How do you have fun while working really hard? For many elite athletes, figuring out how to balance joy and suffering is the key to a long and successful career. Today, we explore how they do it — and how you can, too. We dig into the psychology of "beautiful suffering," explain why joy is connected to agency, the important difference between authoritarian and authoritative coaching, and the steps you can take to shift from extrinsic to intrinsic motivation, which is the ultimate competitive adv...
Today, for our monthly round-up, each of us shares a reflection from February: Brad explains what his chaotic book launch taught him about achievement, fulfillment, responding not reacting, and putting into practice other lessons we discuss regularly; Steve discusses using A.I. to help him do his work, and whether it can ever produce something truly great; and Clay shares a tool that has helped him keep things moving on big projects even when the roadmap isn't super clear. It's a new format with...
The Olympics are the ultimate laboratory for human performance. So today we're diving into some our favorite moments from the 2026 edition—and the lessons we can take from them. Between the bizarre "penis-gate" ski jumping scandal, Lindsey Vonn's downhill ski, and Ilia "Quad God" Malinin's ice skating performance, there are tough questions to tackle: When does dedication cross into dangerous territory? How does an athlete handle Olympic pressure — or recover from failure on the world stage? And ...
We're going to go ahead and say that today's episode is more densely packed with wisdom than any episode we've ever released. We are joined by Great Britain's Olympic ice dancer Lilah Fear ( @thelilahjoshow ), who, along with her partner Lewis Gibson, is currently competing in the Olympic games. You don't need to know anything about the sport to appreciate just how dialed-in Lilah's mental fitness is; nor do you need to be an elite athlete (or any kind of athlete) to find use in the strategies s...
Why do so many people sacrifice their values to make it to the top? People in business who commit fraud; writers who plagiarize; athletes who dope — the list goes on and on. At the core of understanding why is a question that is useful for all of us to ask: How do we pursue excellence without losing ourselves along the way? In today's episode, we unpack the dangerous dynamics of optimization culture, where the drive for growth, status, and money can overtake basic integrity. We explore why the h...
This past weekend, when Alex Honnold climbed Taipei 101's 1,667-foot tower without ropes, he wasn't thinking his way up; he was doing what elite performers across disciplines—from musicians to surgeons to mathematicians—do when they're operating at their peak: feeling their way forward. In this episode, Clay and Brad unpack two related concepts from psychology: situated cognition (thinking with your body rather than your mind) and positive felt sense (the bodily sensation that something is right...
Routines are essential for peak performance, but the trap lies in focusing on their form rather than their function. This episode explains why effective routines act as "training wheels," guiding you to desired mental states rather than becoming rigid superstitions. It introduces Brad Stulberg's 3-3-3 daily, weekly, and monthly practice system for building a resilient foundation, and advises on how to adapt and learn when routines inevitably fall apart, promoting psychological flexibility and minimizing cognitive load.
This episode explores why most New Year's resolutions fail, advocating for values-driven goals over outcome-based ones. It emphasizes the importance of designing your environment for success rather than relying on willpower, starting small, and finding enjoyment in new habits. The discussion covers practical strategies for reducing phone use, improving productivity, and making exercise a sustainable part of life.
Clay Skipper and Brad Stulberg share 26 practical lessons for cultivating excellence, covering foundational principles like anti-fragility, psychological flexibility, and consistency. They delve into topics such as distinguishing happiness from lasting satisfaction, using curiosity to overcome fear, and developing discipline as a skill. The hosts also offer strategies for managing discomfort, embracing a "body of work" mindset, and navigating modern life with adaptable routines, encouraging listeners to find fulfillment in the journey rather than solely in outcomes.
Merry Christmas! We're taking a little break, so we're bringing you an episode with an all-time great athlete, Courtney Dauwalter, whose interview, two years later, still delivers some all-time great advice on excellence. Here's the original intro... 01/04/24: Last summer, ultrarunner Courtney Dauwalter did something that had never been done before. She ran three of the sport's most iconic 100-mile races... within 10 weeks of each other... and won all three. (She also set the women's course reco...
Just last month, Sasha DiGiulian completed only the fourth ever free climb (and the first by a woman) of "Platinum," a route on El Capitan—a 23-day feat that tested her physical and mental boundaries, including nine days of being stuck in a hanging portaledge 2600 feet above the ground to wait out inclement weather. Sasha opens up about overcoming fear, handling adversity with grace and patience (she underwent five hip surgeries to reconstruct both her hips that kept her out of climbing for a ye...
At some point, we're all going to suffer. So what if you treated it as a practice—something to be done skillfully? This was the question Matt posed to himself when he came back to running in his late twenties, after quitting the sport following his senior spring season of high school track. He said he'd become fearful of the pain of racing. He was scared to suffer. He's spent the last two and a half decades mastering his mind. In the time since, he's become a successful run coach, an endurance a...
Today, we dive deep into the age-old debate of talent acquisition versus talent development, using the contrasting blueprints of top college basketball teams as a springboard. We discuss the complex interplay of genetics, opportunity, motivation, and grit—not just in sports, but in every domain of life—as well as challenge the binary of nature vs. nurture, discuss the pitfalls of applying the "talent" label at too young an age, and offer practical advice for parents, coaches, and anyone looking ...
As a thanks you to you on Thanksgiving week, we're answering a handful of listener questions. 1. How can I navigate periods of intense work where my life is out of balance without developing bad habits? 2. If I truly internalize that achievement won’t make me happy, won’t I lose my drive? 3. How can I manage the tedium of doing a job that’s meaningful but involves a lot of boring day-to-day work? 4. How can I distinguish between normal training fatigue and chronic exhaustion from overtraining? 5...
Elite performers know: mental fitness needs the same intentional training as physical fitness. In this episode, we break down mental fitness into three trainable components: resilience (your mental strength), emotional regulation (your psychological endurance), and psychological flexibility (your mental mobility). Drawing from meditation research, disaster psychology, and ultra-running wisdom, we explore what often gets confused for mental toughness (toxic positivity or stoic repression) and dis...
How does someone become CEO of The Atlantic, run a 2:29 marathon at age 44, write books, make music, and still be present for their family? For the answer, we turned to Nick Thompson, who, conveniently (and impressively), does all of those things. On today's episode, we use the release of Nick's new book, The Running Ground , to discuss his systematic approach to productivity and running, including how he organizes his day for maximum impact, why he has "non-goals", the best lessons running and ...
This week, we use the L.A. Dodgers' Yoshinobu Yamamoto’s gutsy back-to-back World Series appearances in Game 6 and 7 to discuss what we’re calling the optimization (or protocol) trap. This is when you become so tethered to a specific routine or “optimal zone” of performance that you become fragile. You trade self-efficacy for hyper-control or neuroticism. There are plenty of times when you have to perform and you’re not at your best, or the external conditions aren’t ideal. Being able to send it...
In anticipation of the New York City Marathon this weekend, we (well, okay, mostly Steve) discuss the ins and outs of how to have your best race, building you a complete toolkit to help you get through 26.2 miles. BUT! It’s not just for runners. As the legendary marathoner Eliud Kipchoge once said, “Marathon is life, and life is marathon.” So we're explaining how each of the tools you can use for the marathon—and the lessons we’ve learned from running them—apply to life. This is about expectatio...
For a long time, it was assumed that fatigue was a muscular phenomenon. It was thought be a set point and once you hit it, you couldn't go any further—like running into a wall. However, more recent research has showed that it's actually much more of mental phenomenon. Our brain shuts us down before our body does, in order to protect us from injury, exhaustion, or even death. (See: Tim Noakes's central governor theory and Samuele Marcora's model of fatigue, both of which we discuss in today's epi...
We talk a lot on this podcast about the principles that underlie true excellence, so we’re especially excited when we see those core ideas exemplified in the real world. On today’s podcast, Steve, Brad, and Clay each pick one sports moment from this past weekend that illustrated a lesson (or three) about healthy competition, unpacking what you can learn from the Tigers and Mariners going 15 innings, A’ja Wilson’s third WNBA title, and the Chicago Marathon. All in all, we ended up with seven less...
Today, we're exploring the transformative power of curiosity, which is one of the most effective tools elite performers use in high-pressure situations. We'll explain how shifting from a mindset of fear or rigid confidence to one of open curiosity can change your biology and psychology, unlocking new levels of performance—whether you’re stepping up to a heavy barbell or presenting to a boardroom. It orients the brain way from a threat-based "avoidance" mindset, and towards a challenge-embracing ...
