Red Table Talk: The Estefans - Black & Latin: Racism Within

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for everybody. Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Then those me and the Gloria Stefan Here you are listening to Red Table Talk via Stephens Podcast, all your favorite episodes from our Facebook watch show in audio. They make sure that you know that you are the darkest one colorism, the distroy being truth. We don't talk about my grandmo. Let say don't go outside and don't darken at my family. And I still get emotional right now because you think

I'm a kid. After Latinos speak out about the discrimination they face within their own community. Because Latino, whatever it is, it doesn't look like me. Our culture secret exposed at the Red Table. A lot of us are very hypocrite. Why why there is racism? They don't pretend to like us and really not like us. Latino that is a term that unites all Latinos, regardless of nationality or skin color. It's about a shared culture and a sense of belonging. But let's be clear, being Latino is not a race.

There are black Latinos, white Latinos in every shade in between. One in four US Hispanics identify as Afro Latino, and two thirds of Hispanics with darker skin colors report discrimination. Common Yet racist phrases such as major lassa or improving the race encourage generations of Latinos to value European features and skin tone. One survey showed that of dark skinned individuals were viewed as less intelligent and therefore less worthy. Let go what case is silk hood. This is what

colorism looks like. It may not be something we want to acknowledge, but that's exactly why we wanted to bring it to the table. We cannot know what it's like to be in the skin of darker Latinos because we were born like this. In Latino families, you can have someone with very dark skin, you could have someone with very light skin, and they can be brother and sister. That dynamic within the family can cause your family to

treat you different. People looking from the outside to treat you different, which is why we need to use this platform to amplify this issue because I don't know what that feels like. It breaks my heart to think that after Latinos feel racism in their own family because you think of racism as a general thing in society or we need happens in your own family. Is very difficult. Is that feeling of being the trauma of being oppressed.

As humans, we tend to get close to what makes us comfortable, and sometimes we treat different as less then, and that is one of the biggest issues in the world. This is something that needs to be gutted from the inside out because they're dealing with things in their life that we will never know merely as a result of the color of their skin. Here we go, girls. Caramel is best known as the culture expert on the hit show Queer Eye, which I love. But what you may

not know is that Catamo's grandmother was Cuban. For most of his life, he rejected his Latin roots because of the racism he felt within his own family. Welcome to the table, baby, I am loving this switter. Thank you. I appreciate it so much. I was trying to be a little sexy and at your grandma's Cuban. Yes, and in opening Jamaica, Yes, Ja Jamaica. Yeah, and she uh lighter, Yes,

she she was, but she was lighter growing up. I felt very embarrassed even today, to be honest, talking to the producers and talking to people, every time they refer to me as Afro Latino or Latino, I get very uncomfortable still to this same something new. It's very new. Your Latino family did not accept you. Not accept sounds deliberate. I don't think they understood what they were doing, but it was this subliminal, unconscious, internalized racism that was in them.

Do you feel like within your family if somebody's lighter, you know, they'll joke and be like, oh, you know, because you're the darker one and I'm the lighter one. And that of course, of course, for me, playing outside as a kid was nerve wracking because my grandmother would say, don't go outside and don't darken up my family. Don't darken up my family. Don't darken up my family. So I would not go outside until after five pm because

then the sun would be less. And I still get emotional right now because you think I'm a kid and I should not have to be thinking about not going outside and playing because I don't want to get darker so that my grandmother doesn't say a comment. Maybe she even thought she was trying to protect it, and that's what it was, and in her mind to think that it was going to be better for you to be lighter. Her intention was to protect me, to to try to say things that she thought was going to help me.

But the impact is that it destroyed me emotionally. But it also made me feel like I wasn't connected to my culture intentions. In fact, that is huge my families to say, oh, your nose, and my grandmother even my mother would squeeze my nose as but it was because it's more my nose is more African, my nose is more black. And for many years, I kept saying to myself, I need to know Jack. I did not know where that internalized hatred I had for myself was coming from

your drama. I mean, we don't realize it, but you know it starts with the family that people around you. You know, like those experiences are going to mark you for the rest of your life. I'm the only boy. I have sisters and they range from very light to I have one sister who's the darkest and her treatment

was the worst. The reason that I am the person on Queer Eye that has the emotional and mental conversations is because I understand the trauma and damage where maybe, and not to discount my sisters who are lighter, they didn't experience because they were Benita. There were all these things that were for me. I didn't hear those things as often. But you're gorgeous, appreciated. Have you ever been told that you couldn't possibly be Latino because you're blank? Yes,

it wasn't even a question. It's immediately like no, no, no, you're Jamaican, there's no Cuban, And it's an easy way just to dismiss me and discriminate me. That's why I love what you're doing here, because there's so many people who are going to watch you here this for the first time and say, oh, this is a problem. Maybe

I shouldn't be making these comments. And so what I love about this conversation is that for those individuals who are experiencing their mental health, their emotional health being damaged, this is a moment where you can understand that you are beautiful as you are because it's a journey that I'm going on right now to love myself because of the internalized racism that I heard and experienced from my Latin side. But I started to say, I have to

build myself back up. Conversations like this where I look at you all and you look like people my family, and you're affirming me for the first time, It's like, Okay, I'm getting chills, I'm getting emotional. It's like I feel included. You have to go through a process after trauma to understand it, to turn it into something meaningful, to then be able to help somebody else. You don't just live like this, go through trauma and then oh, sure, I'm fine,

I'm unaffective. Build however, you change it with your sons. I tell them the skin is gorgeous, the darker it's beautiful. I want to make sure they hear it. And I realized it's important the language I have in my home. I no longer allow other family members, cousins, aunt's, uncle's, anyone to make comments to my kids and me to walk away. It's important for me now to be respectful of my family, especially those who are older, but to

also say this is why that is hurtful. This is why it is damaging, and this is why I'm hoping we can talk about why you think that's okay to say and how you changing that could actually make us a stronger. Fact, because a stronger But they're comparing. There's something I say that people all the time. Comparison is

the thief of joy. If you want to steal the joy from your family, whether it's their skin tone, whether it's their education, keep comparing your kids and see if you don't steal the joy and the love that's in your home. And let's try to be better. Let's try to really think about what we're saying to each other as human beings. I understand that your boyfriend Carlos is with you. Yes, we have him join us because it would be so relevant to this conversation. How god like

beautiful couple it is. How did you guys meet on Instagram? Yeah? The d M very quickly set. He's a beautiful photographer and creative director. And so I saw his work and I was like, oh, I like this work. But then I saw his face and I was like, oh, I like updated black men, Latin men, white men. I was with a man who for three and a half years he s Puerto Rican and I not once try to speak Spanish, try to expose my culture, do anything, and with that person, I could not connect because I was

too afraid. This is the first time I've ever felt comfortable and embracing my Latin side being with Carloso. Um and it's and I'm getting pretty good at it, thank you. And it's only be because Carlos and I practice, you know, practical tota and and like the only way, no fear, you're jumping. But the fear has went away because he doesn't judge me. Cuenta, I'll tell you what I think making the race better is understanding and not creating these barriers or even having to say they are afraid in

Mexico contacto as Latinos. We need to make sure we're looking at Wow, that's the first time I ever said we yeah, there you go. That's crazy. That was really just that's great. And so we have to think about what internalized within the Latino community. Are we saying to ourselves and believing and then passing on that is wrong about Latinos or black people period? What do you guys? Information for Cuenta, we have to learn just we need

to do better. We can't change what happened before. We can learn from it and try to move forward being open. Thank you, Thank you for being the Michael to The podcast network is dedicated to celebrating and elevating Latin X voices, stories and content creators in English, Spanish and Spanish. Michael Buddha to me means familia means lack or me that means labor means so many thig friendships, all the beautiful

music dancing. It's our voice, our voice to be heard about so many different topics, not waiting for anyone else to tell our stories and to elevate Latin voices and think it's very important nowadays. It's the sense of pride that I get, feeling like I belong to something. Michael is an opportunity to bring our stories to center stage. Gonna be hot. I can't wait for you guys to listening Michael podcast that work on the I Heart Radio

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the AD Council. When was a child, she felt she was discriminated against because of the color of her skin and the texture of her hair. Now, as the star of love and hip hop Miami, which I also love, she's using her voice to speak up for black Latin welcome matter, I love you, Yeah, Sharing the love, Sharing the love. Born Diana dan Ellis de Losantos got her start in show business at four years old, dancing in the popular Spanish variety series Sabadogan were both she and

Lily were regular cast members. People know me or I started off as Diana Losantos back when I used to you know, work at SI Francisco, which, by the way, now that I'm grown, I don't know how you did it because that was a lot that why why, why, I'll tell you, I'll tell you why. Being on that platform it was young, I learned a lot from it.

I'm grateful for the opportunity. You know, we know that he wasn't a you know, the easiest cookie um at least not for me, and obviously you don't mean born that we grown now, and there were many things that he could have done with his platform to help people like myself. During choreographies, they never knew where to place

me is gonna look awkward. He was one of those that also made a lot of those umusto Joe, because you know who's gonna go against the power racist comments with racist Forty years ago, we didn't have this car and the people have gotten away with it. Because even if you knew it and I love all these great things, yes, but if you had the opportunity of going to sleep and waking up black, would you want to wake up black? Would you want to be treated as a black person?

And this is where I come in, where I'm like, okay, let's have real conversations. Okay, but you were the only black little girl and how many years remind me thirty five years ago? GETA is a great accomplishment. Come on, Londo, We've been here for the longest time. There isn't a Latin country that doesn't have black people, perto Rico, Cuba, every single place in the world. And that's the part that I feel that it is unfair. That's how I like belt like everybody was like drama and we just

try to cover it up. But a lot of us are very hypocrite. And that's just the truth. You know what I'm saying, There is racism. Do you racista? I would never would you want your daughter, your son to marry a black person? You know, saying oh yeah, but she's right. Not most people are not like most most people have the subtext of racism. Whether they tell you to your face, I'm not racist, they're feeling it in there and and it's the truth. This is not the

pain point anybody on this table. Specifically, it's for the people that are watching they and it's the truth. And if you're racist, don't pretend to like us and really not like us. Do what we leave the same thing with the notes. I've heard it all, and they make sure that you know that you are the darkest one. It's like, I see, yeah, I gotta tell me. And don't get it twisted with this wig that I got on right now, the badness, I got my curls. I embraced it. I played part of the game. I know

what it is. I know that African American parents have the talk. Yes to Latino Afro Latino parents have that talk. Or after Latinos still black, Yes, we still have to have that conversation. No, but do the question, MoMA, listen to what you just told you. Afro Latinos black. You'll never if you walk by a street, you walk by a supermarket or whatever, there's always a security walking. Do you need anything, man, do you need anything? No? I don't. Why don't you ask somebody else? That's way to me.

I'm so passionate about it, and I don't want to sugarcoat it. Being black. It's not being black in America, it's not being black in Cuba. It's not being black, and it's being black in the world. Just see us as people, you know, Just see us as people. Man, what you said is so important. Feel the fierce need if somebody says something inappropriate to be like that is disturbing, severely inappropriate and all. So I want to ask, is it okay if I say something? Is it okay if

I insert myself here? Because I feel like I almost have to use my voice. But I also don't want to make anybody uncomfortable. Whatever you feel in your heart and your spirit, you do it, stand behind it, and especially if you know that it's coming from a good place. None of us will ever feel some type of way because you're defending us. Because you're standing up for us. We're grateful because no one doesn't. Growing up, you never

saw people like us select those. To me was life and I had the honor of being able to work with her the way she went through a lot of discrimination in Cuba and even when she had the opportunity having a major role. I've gone to auditions, but novels and yes, exactly, we have like two They've told me. If we went so, then here comes apart where I'm more be Latina with all due respect, Jennifer Lopez COMI whatever it is, it doesn't look like me to agree

with you. We have grown very much, really have we? How many black people do you see? How many black people do you see lablas? How many black people do you see in the covers of magazines? Do you see them in movies? No? You don't. So it's like, ma, have we really evolved? You for me and I started doing an emotional when I hear you're talking. Was super impactful. You don't understand how important it was for me to see you on love in hip hop. If I would have had you as a kid, Jesus, but I'm so

thankful that I had you as a grown man. I know that there's not enough and there you still are tokenized in so many ways, But I have to tell you, even though you are that one and there should be more, I'm so thankful that you are the one than you of mine. Seriously, thank you. I have to give you all the credit in the world as well. I remember one of the most important moments in my career was performing with you on stage in The American Wife Lives

Like you. Always make sure to give that credit to everyone because it takes a team to make those performances happen, and within that team there were people like us. And even though that I was very young, I shall always be great. Thank you. But you know what's funny, I thought it was us, I know, sharing our African traditions and are such a part of who we are, and to me, that's celebratory. You don't know. Because how impactful certain moments can be for people. Peopoth are gonna be

amount of the role models for the next generation. What do you tell them? You go first, be patient with yourself and love every part of who you are. And it might take a little bit longer because of the negative things you've been hearing your entire life, But know that it's up to you to love yourself and to see the beauty even if your family, your culture, or the world around you does not make you feel like it is okay to love who you are and except

who you are. I would say, I don't get the way I see and I would say more, I don't get the way I see anything me embrace your negativedude, embrace it, understand it, see it as a power. God blessed you with melanin melanin is a power. Understand that the world shall come against you, and you need to be prepared for whatever is to come. Don't let anyone anyone makes you feel that you're less than That's the most important thing, because when you have education, you have power.

Make sure to check out Drink Chance, your number one music podcast on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Host and O r E and dj f N sat down with artists and icon Yea, which Vulture called one of most significant interviews. I literally had to go like Danos and I don't want to have to be the villain. But when I went and did the Donda thing, Yea returned and Abody had to sit back and watch the real leader.

Check out Drink Champ's conversation with Yea and many more legendary artists each and every Friday on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Ev Rodsky, author of the New York Times bestseller Affair Play and Find Your Unicorn Space, activists on the gender division of labor, attorney and family mediator. And I'm Dr Addina Rucar, a Harvard physician and medical correspondent with an expertise and the science of stress, resilience,

mental health, and burnout. We're so excited to share our podcast Time Out, a production of I Heeart Podcasts and Hell of Sunshine. We're uncovering why society makes it so hard for women to treat their time with the value it deserves. So take this time out with us. Listen to Time Out, a fair play podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Roxande Gay, host of the Roxanne Gay Agenda. The Bad Women is podcast of your dreams. Now what

is the Roxanne Gay Agenda, you might ask what. It's a podcast where I'm going to speak my mind about what's on my mind, and that could be anything. Every week I will be in conversation with an interesting person who has something to say. We're going to talk about feminism, race, writing in books, and art, food, pop culture, and yes, politics.

I started show with a recommendation. Really, I'm just going to share with you a movie or a book, or maybe some music or a comedy side something that I really want you to be aware of and maybe engage with as well. Listen to the Luminary original podcast The Roxanne Gay Agenda. The Bad Feminist Podcast of Your Dreams every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to bring out

somebody that gave you your power. Mommy. Yes. Amas. Dominican mother Anna Oliaga overcame many obstacles to help Ama pursue her dreams. She saw the discrimination young Amra faced and taught her to love herself by confronting racism head on. The fact that you created is importants like any no no, no, no, no, no, She's real. She's real. That pain that you carry is what's going to make a difference for the people you talk to. Because you lived it in your own skin.

You have something to share that Hey she did this. Look at this. You know you're proud. Thank you for being here and being so honest and being that forced and nature that you are a woman. This is very in a hidden that's good so they know it's real. It's real. On the right thing. Dctor Elizabeth George Freeman has spent her life studying the effects of prejudice and racism towards a latinos throughout the US and Latin America. Welcome Dr Freeman. We're so happy to have you for all.

I am just so excited to be part of the table. You've been listening to their stories, yes, I'm sure your brain is exploding with so many facts and statistics and things connections, please enlighten us. Listening to both Amata stories and Karamo stories. In many ways, they resonate with the patterns and trends that we see across Latin America and

across the United States. With a latinos it's the conversation about the journey learning and unlearning, right, so learning your history, learning to own who you are, learning to own your body, but also to unlearn some of the negative anti black attitudes that are expressed in families and seen in broader society.

And even when we talk about family, oftentimes families are making decisions about who to invest in because they're thinking about who's the better investment shot, who's the best shot. And there were a number of cases where you have mothers oftentimes treating their children differently based on what they look like and what that would translate into with differences and how children were eating, where they went to school, if they went to private versus public school. You also

had a case where it wasn't just mothers. There was a father who literally gave away his three darker scant daughters to raise his lighter scanned daughters. I mean, it was a it was a pretty brutal situation, trauma, and how can we listen to that discrimination and families dressers are away. So education is part of that, but that treatment is connected to the broader social structure. Right, So

this isn't about fixing families. It's about fixing our society because in so much of the conversation about discrimination and colorism, we focus so much on color, and I just want to make sure we recognize that it's not just color. It's hair, it's features, it's lit, it's it's all. It's this constellation of racial features that shape people's outcomes. And that's in the crux of my work is to understand and unpack how that plays out in people's lives. What's

the difference between race and this is a really great question. No, let me explain what race and ethnicity are. Both of these categories are, first of all, constructed categories. Humans made these categories, and what they mean actually varies depending on what country you're coming from. So I feel like I have to say that upfront, these are not kind of

objective categories. But when we talk about race, we're typically talking about physical features, whereas ethnicity refers to culture, it refers to language, it refers to kind of people's social experiences, and it's often connected to geographic area. The other question that people sometimes ask is how does nationality fit with this? Then if that's raised and that's ethnicity, nationality is just about your legal identity, where do you have your citizenship.

Oftentimes folks they mix up all three of these terms. They don't understand that Latinos are a pretty heterogeneous group that consists of lots of different racial categories. Okay, so wait, so I race for Cuban. Okay, so let's let's break it down. Are you a Cuban citizen? Now, so you are American American? Yeah, okay? And then race, well, you're raised. What is your race? She's part Lebanese parts. Yeah, let's talk about physical features. How are you read here in

the United States? I would like her to say that you are white. You're white. You are white. I am white, she is white. We are white. Now you're ethnicity, You're you're clearly Latina. Right, this is. This is part of what we're here to talk about. But even that category is interesting because some Latinos feel like, well, I don't necessarily want to be just subsumed in this Latino category, because in some ways that Latino ethnicity subsumes Costa Rica, Nicaragua,

Dominican Republic. All these categories are just thrown into this Latino ethnicity. It's a convenience that we created. The issue becomes that folks don't see black folks as equal because they don't have the opportunity to see us possibing at the same level. Those are the game to they are today that by the way, I wish that we could continue this conversation all day, me too. But the words I'm taking away from this communication love and unity and

support for each other and allies. Thank you, God, amo Amada, Dr Horge Freeman for sharing your stories. This is a tough conversation that we need to continue to have in order for things to change. So thank you for being here and for pouring out your hearts to us. And we want to end this Red Table with a special performance by my beautiful Emily singing her song I just wanted to be over it's one of my favorites that she's ever written. In college, I had an experience with

a friend of mine who was dark skinned. We went to eat in a restaurant, got our food to then which the waitress came over and said, you guys need to go. You're not welcome to eat here. And I literally was like why, and she looked at my friend and touched her skin, and um. It really made me feel the need to use my voice and put my anger from that experience on paper and try to get it to as many people as possible to show that not only my an ally, but this is bothersome and

we need to speak up as human beings. H m hm. A forward dreams made believe moving on with something we ad to come to terms with the absurd. He is from freedom, yet somehow it stirred fifty two twenty new guts are in numbers in between. When will the jest reveal it's an equating triumph with the color of a skin. I just find it to be over. I just find it to be to be through. I just want it to be over, I to be to be foo. Hey, it's me family tree blue with lighter fluid on my greens.

I hide the roots aground me to this earth. I fear the only predetermined gives a bird. It's not too later, right their arms of fame forgetful linc the only Manda Lame increases suon. That's focusing. Raise your girls to feed my t you know, looks to be about to be frulb. It's rude. I just want to the love. I just want to be fool us rude. M just you just want to be all, to be true, to be thrue. I don't want it to be all, to be true, to be to be through, to be through, to be through,

to be through. Thanks for listening. To join the Red Table Talk family and become a part of the conversation, follow us at Facebook dot com, forward Slash, red table Talk, Steffens. Red Table Talk via Steffunds is a production of Westbrook Studios in partnership with I Heart Radio's Michael Dura podcast Network. For more podcasts from my Heart, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. From Cavalry Audio comes the new true crime podcast,

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time out. I'm Ev Rodsky, author of the New York Times bestseller fair Play and Find Your Unicorn Space, activists on the gender division of labor, attorney and family mediator. And I'm Dr Addina Rukar, a Harvard physician and medical correspondent with an expertise in the science of stress, resilience,

mental health, and burnout. We're so excited to share our podcast Time Out, a production of I Heart Podcasts and Hello Sunshine, Repealing back the layers around why society makes it so easy to guard men's time like it's diamonds and treat women's time like it's infinite like sand. And so, whether you're partnered with or without children, in or in a career where you want more boundaries, this is a

place for you, for people of all family structures. So take this time out with us to learn, get inspired, and most importantly, reclaim your time. Listen to Time Out a fair Play podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.