¶ Greatness Podcast With Michael Anderson
Hey there , what's up everybody ? Welcome to Evoke Greatness . This podcast was created for those of you who , like me , are driven by their curious nature and fascination with the champion mindset , if you have an insatiable hunger for growth and knowledge , or maybe you're just curious on how some of the most successful people have navigated their journey .
We share the ups and the downs , the highs and the lows and all the lessons learned along the way . It doesn't matter what chapter you are on in your story Maybe you're just getting started or , heck , maybe you're halfway through . What I know is , where intention goes , energy flows .
It's my most sincere hope that you will hear something in one or maybe many of these episodes that resonates with you and reminds you that you are not in this alone . As we venture into year two , I hope that you find a sense of connection and community when you're here , because we all deserve a place where we belong .
My name is Sunny and I am so glad you're here . If you're new , there's a few things you want to know about me . I am a huge book nerd and a wee bit of a control enthusiast , with an obsession for motivational coffee cups . I believe that a rising tide raises all ships and I invite you along in this journey to evoke greatness .
Welcome back to another episode of Evoke Greatness . In today's episode , I'm joined by Michael Anderson , a guiding light for young parents on their journey through the complexities of parenthood , partnership and personal growth .
Michael's a skilled therapist and coach , specializing in weaving mindfulness and trauma healing into a tapestry of support for those looking to deepen their connections with their children , their partners and themselves .
He helps parents striving to navigate the delicate balance of family life while honoring their individual journeys of self-discovery , bringing invaluable insights into how to be more present and connected as a parent , while understanding the roots and repercussions of trauma .
Beyond just that theory , michael offers practical strategies for breaking free from unhelpful thought patterns and processing through difficult emotions .
So prepare to get your notebook out , prepare to be inspired and equipped with the tools to be able to transform family dynamics and personal well-being as Michael comes on and shares his wisdom and insight into really how to create a more connected , more mindful , intentional way of being . So , michael , welcome to the show .
So good to be on . Thanks a lot , Sunny .
Absolutely Well , I am so I told you before we started . But I'm super excited to dig in on this because it's a little bit personal , it's a little bit selfish . I'm doing the work you know , as a parent , as a mom of a tween and a teen , and life can get really challenging . What you thought you knew , yesterday is a totally new game .
Sometimes , when you wake up , Totally totally . It is a 24 hour revolving door , that's right . I see all these memes where it's like me tiptoeing around just asking my kid if they had a good day right With having a teenager and fortunately they're both boys oh great yeah . Well , it's just really interesting .
They used to both be the biggest mama's boys , so , oh great , yeah , well , it's . You know , it's just really interesting . They used to both be like the biggest mama mama's boys , and there's still that element there , but now it's like this sense of independence and so yeah .
I , you know , want to dig into all the things , but I always like to have my guest come on and really , you know , kind of talk about how did you evolve to this current version of yourself ? Was this always the plan to go become a therapist focus on the things you're focusing on now , or has it been a bit of an evolution ?
For sure an evolution . I would not have ever chosen to be a therapist . I honestly to be honest , Sunny , I didn't even know what a therapist did when I became a therapist .
I just like I remember being in one of my first classes in grad school and turning to one of my colleagues , one of the other students , cohort members , and just being like , hey , what does a therapist do ? Can you just tell me what a therapist does ? And they looked at me like I was crazy and so this was completely off my radar .
I actually have my wife to thank , though , for where I'm at now . I was , actually . I had a number of jobs . I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do as a career , and nothing was really feeling right and nothing was able I've never been able to feel settled on anything .
And she was getting her her , her degree in family studies , and I'd come home from work just kind of feeling exhausted and stressed and tired and depleted and she'd be telling me everything she was learning in classes about family and marriage and parenting , and I was like , man , that stuff's cool , that sounds awesome .
And so , finally , I was like you know , I'm not enjoying my career now . I'm loving what my wife is telling me .
What if I just went back to school and became a marriage and family therapist and I'll just kind of figure out the rest as I go Just kind of jump off the cliff and grow wings on the way down , as it were , and that's what we decided to do , and from there it's just . We haven't looked back . It's just been such a fun , fun ride for sure .
Well , that's awesome and I love , I love that that it seems to bring a sense of fulfillment , like your whole physiological being changes , like as you talk about , like you loved hearing that and I think sometimes we don't pay attention to those like inner nudges about things that really bring us fulfillment and things that we are excited to do .
It almost feels like sometimes your career is just a checkbox and you're just kind of , you know , going foot after one foot in front of the other , just kind of like going along and that's not where we're going to be inspired and motivated and really like excited to get up for work that day , or who we get to serve that day .
And so I think paying attention to the nudges of that , what's going to bring you fulfillment so that you can be in service of others , is such an important thing to pay attention to .
I agree . And to just kind of adding to that , my wife and I have an expression that we use called blue skies , where we just we say , okay , blue skies means that right now we're only allowed to think of possibilities . No , no , thunderclouds can come in and shoot down anything right now . Right , and so like so blue . So so you'd be like you know .
So , michelle , my wife's name is Michelle . I'd be like Michelle blue skies . What if we did such and such and such and such , right , and ? And our first instinct I don't know if you've experienced this our first instinct is to always shoot down ideas and possibilities that could really bring fulfillment .
And just being willing to like , sit with that resistance a little bit and just not shoot down every possibility has been super key in our life , because we had a thousand reasons to not do this , right , oh , but we'll go back to grad school , we already have kids . Like , what about this ?
Like there'll always be a thousand reasons to not pursue something that matters to you , and and so just having that mindset , that curiosity , just to say , okay , let's just sit with that resistance for a little bit and let's actually really see like , could we actually make this happen ? You know ?
¶ Assigning Meaning to Children's Behavior
I love that .
Well , I went through and , you know , just looked at a number of different pieces of content that you put out and things that you focus on , of putting education out there for folks , and something hit me like a lightning bolt , and so that's the first thing that I want to talk through , and that is the meaning that we layer on top of our kids' behavior .
That ends up actually causing us to create like a meaning around it . Right , and we say it's their behavior , but it's the meaning we placed on their behavior . And the specific example that you used happened to be like referencing .
You know , if I ask my kid to do something and they say no or they don't do it , that's disrespectful and it was like you were calling and no one in the world knew , but like you were like Sonny , you got some work to do , like that was .
That was totally what I felt like it was , but I'm also wise enough to say , dang , I could step back from that and recognize that I put meaning on some , on a behavior that may not actually mean that , and so I'd love to just kind of explore through what does that look like and kind of give reference to that for folks who may be able to recognize some of
their own patterns and habits around that .
Yeah , totally , as we jump into that , I like to say nothing . The best joke in the world is parenting advice , right . Like there's so many nuances to every situation and there's no one size fits all thing , right .
But I do think that there are certain principles that can be applied from situation to situation that can at least be really helpful and provide clarity , right , and I think this is one of those principles , and that principle is that our brains are meaning-making machines .
Our brains want to assign meaning to things and sort things out , because it likes to make sense of things , right . Our brains like uncertainty , right . The only problem is that oftentimes our brains can assign pretty unhelpful meanings to things and we don't even realize we're doing it and so we have .
And so that happens all the time in parenting , where our kid does something and our brain will immediately slap a meaning on top of it , and it's the meaning that gets assigned that causes way more stress than the actual behavior , right . If we assign the meaning of oh , my kid is so disrespectful , that's going to cause way more stress in our behavior , right .
If we assign the meaning of oh , my kid is so disrespectful , that's going to cause way more stress in our system . Right , because that feels very threatening , right . There's a lot loaded into that right and so , yeah , it's so important to become way more curious about the meanings that we're layering on top of the behaviors that our kids are doing .
And I love that you say that , because it really it applies to everything , right , it's not even just the bad things .
So today , because I had been kind of going through my notes and everything , I went to go pick up my 12-year-old today and we started talking about luck on the way home and he had dropped something in the car and he picks it up and he goes oh , I found a quarter , oh , it's on tails . And he goes oh wait , is that a quarter ?
I said no , no , no , it's pennies . When you I I've always said this when you find a penny , heads up pick it up for the rest of the day you'll have good luck . And he's like he goes . Oh , so it's not a quarter . I said no , I the next person to find and he's like why , do you do that ? I said because then it's it's lucky for them and he goes .
But do you think it's really lucky ? He goes like do you really do you have a lucky day when you pick up a lucky penny ? I said I do , because I've assigned meaning to it .
I have assigned the meaning to it that when I have this , like it changes , like it gives me this little dopamine hit like I got a lucky penny , or it equally gives me a dopamine hit when I flip it over . And I know that I'm passing that to someone else .
And .
I said so , like anything it's , it's that meaning that we assigned to it and so , yes , maybe it's just that little brain chemical dump , that little dopamine hit you get , but you've assigned meaning to it where it kind of gives you just this little jolt and so it can really go like for both .
You know , yes , the negative and it's those things that we need to pay attention to , but sometimes it's the positive as well that we can reframe things and apply a new meaning to it .
Which is something that I'm going to try to be very intentional about is when I have those conversations and I pick up a behavior or an attitude of some sort , like okay , I need to stop myself in the moment and new meaning to us that I've assigned , right , that I try to assign to these behaviors is this idea that actually what our kids are doing is totally
like normal , right , like the in fact it's their .
It's like what they're , that's what they're supposed they're actually doing , what they're supposed to be doing Right , like , in fact it's like what they're supposed to be doing . They're actually doing what they're supposed to be doing Right . When my five-year-old talks back to me , he's actually not being disrespectful . He's actually developing as a kid , right .
He's learning boundaries . He's learning that he has a voice . He's learning that he wants to stand up for himself . He's learning that he has a voice . He's learning that he wants to stand up for himself . He's learning that he has opinions .
He's learning how to explore , how to express those opinions , like he's doing some really cool things in that moment and , in fact , he's developing a personality trait that I hope he actually cultivates .
I hope , when he's 18 , 20 , 30 , 50 , that he is advocating for himself , that he's sharing his opinion , that he's learning how to not just take what people say at face value , like it's a really cool thing .
And so what he needs me to do in that moment is not to get in self-protection mode where I'm like , oh , he's just so disrespectful , I've got to protect myself because he's hurting my feelings Right . Got to protect myself because he's hurting my feelings right .
Instead , like , cultivate that , just give him the tools and the training to help him develop how to channel those qualities in a more helpful way , which has been a really helpful meaning for me to reassign to those experiences .
I bet . And so how would you guide parents in like hitting the timeout button on our own emotions , you know , or you know assigning some sort of like awareness ? What I try to do when I know that my , my mind's starting to spin , you know , is like I say out loud pattern interrupt .
Or if I can see it in my kids and my husband , they love it when I call them out like that . I'm like pattern interrupt , you know in the middle of it .
It's their favorite .
Yeah , they love it , they appreciate it . Interrupt , you know , in the middle of it . It's their favorite . Yeah , they love it , they appreciate it . What ways , though , can parents be in the moment and remind themselves , like is this about me or is this about the behavior you know ? Like is there some way that you can signal to yourself ?
Yes , I would . First thing I would say is I would encourage them to start before the moment , right , because when you're in the moment , emotions take over , reactivity takes over , right .
But if they're willing , here's what I'm going to encourage parents to do as they're listening to this is , set the intention right now that next time this happens , I'm going to choose curiosity rather than judgment . We're so quick , right ? Well , I'll just put it this way . I just really think curiosity is one of the most powerful words in the English language .
Curiosity is the first step to real change . Every time , because we're so used to treating what people do with judgment , we're so used to treating what we do with judgment , right ? I mean , I can't say how many times , as a parent , I look back and I'm like , why did I react that way ? That was so dumb of me . I can't , oh God , right .
And so I'm going to encourage parents to , okay , set the intention right now that next time your kid does something that usually gets big emotions activated in you and if we think hard enough , we can always , we can pinpoint what those behaviors are , right , we don't even have to think that hard sometimes and just decide now that you're going to choose curiosity ,
and so in that moment when that happens , get really curious about what emotions you feel come up in your body , get really curious about what thoughts are going through your head , get really curious about what the meaning you're assigning to this is right , and you can just ask yourself okay , why am I reacting this way ?
What do I think this means about me , about my parenting , about my kid , and just get curious with it . You don't have to judge it , you don't have to change it , you don't have to do anything else besides just be willing to sit with it for a little bit and be curious with it .
And let's even take a step
¶ Parenting, Trauma, and Healthy Relationships
backwards . Oftentimes we parent in ways healthy or unhealthy . Right that we were parented . Oftentimes we will pick up so many of those same similarities and traits as we were parented or in really tough situations .
I have observed people to make sure , like they do everything they can to never parent , you know , or have interactions the way that they experience them .
Lots of you know there's traumas involved there , where it's like there is this visceral response to how I need to show up for my child , response to how I need to show up for my child , and so can we kind of go back a little bit and unpack some of the things that we learned as parents of varying ways or some of those traumas ?
How can we start doing the work to kind of dig a little deeper and peel back the layers there so that we can show up as a more emotionally healthy parent who really is connected in a way that we should be ?
Oh , that's such a good question , that's so good .
I mean speaking of this meaning making whether our brain does when we experience trauma , our brain assigns meaning to it , right , and there's a whole field of trauma as it relates to relationships parenting , parent-child relationships , families called complex trauma , right , and meaning that sometimes trauma is really subtle and not as overt as maybe some like the big
things that we often associate with trauma , right , but it can be any sort of memories or emotions or experiences that were never fully processed , and that happens a lot in our early years with how we were parented , right To your point , you know , oftentimes we as parents shut down emotions in our children that were shut down in ourselves , right , or yeah , and
so that's . It's so important when we embrace curiosity , to be curious enough to ask ourselves like hey , is there anything here that maybe just might be the byproduct of my experiences growing up as a child , right , and being willing to offer ourselves some serious doses of self-compassion and some self-love for why we show up Again .
We're so used to picking judgment and criticism Like , why am I doing this ? That's so stupid . But , man , if we actually got in touch with that younger part of us that was treated in similar ways or was hurt in some ways . Growing up , we'd be able to show a lot more love to ourselves , and self-love is very healing .
That's how we heal trauma is through self-love .
Right , right . And I have found that even I was a bit of a wild child as a teenager and , you know , put my mom through the ringer for sure and what I have found is how that shows up for me as a parent with a teenager is there is this anxiety and fear around them choosing that same path .
And so , you know , in in having conversations with my son , who's almost 16 , it's it's trying to kind of warn him of the things , but not project on him . And sometimes I don't do that . Well , sometimes I , you know , sometimes I project , and and then all I'm doing is acting more out of fear than anything else .
And so we've had a lot of conversations around it and we we have pretty open conversations , but I think you know we all have the ability , or the opportunity , I should say , to move more into that like projecting phase which is . Move more into that like projecting phase which is doesn't , doesn't serve the situation .
And so you know , for , for , for those who who are challenged even just with the communication side of thing with their kids , what are some ways that they can again like show up in a way where it's it's there's not an agenda , cause I think a lot of times kids are like okay , what's what's going on here ?
So it's , it's without an agenda , but it's in a way where you're really trying to create a healthy relationship , a healthy communicative relationship .
Yeah , even like , even saying like , even in the moments when the quote unquote problematic behavior is is happening . Is that what is happening ? Is that what you're asking ? Yeah , yeah . Yeah , again , such a powerful question .
Honestly , I think one of the most important things we can do as parents is actually to talk more authentically about what we're experiencing in the moment right .
You know there are times when you can really powerful , awesome things can happen when you know if you slow down enough and say hey , just so you know , I am trying really hard not to put my own fears onto this situation and make them about you , and so , because of that , I just want to take a step back , take a deep breath and I just want to ask you
again will you just help me understand your experience , what's going on for you ? And I just want you to know that I want to honor that as much as possible .
And so I'm going to work on just not putting my own meaning and experience on this Like , just like being really authentic about where you're at right now , right and and and the showing your kid that like it's okay to be vulnerable , it's okay to open up in that , in that space , and to when you're not in the moment , it's so powerful to go back and just
repair when it didn't go well , when you go back to your kid and say I've been thinking a lot about our last conversation and I realized that how I reacted was about me , that was about my own stuff , that actually was not about you at all and I'm really sorry for that , and there's things we got to work on right , like there's this behavior that we're working
on helping you to not do like we still have boundaries as a parent , right . But we can just say , we can acknowledge authentically that , hey , I'm willing to own my stuff and I don't want my stuff to be about your stuff , and I think that can be a really powerful first step for parents .
Yeah , and I think even a child , teenager , you know whatever , recognizing that you're willing to not have to be right , that you're willing to own whatever . Whatever that situation was , I wish I could have said something a little different , Like when they see us owning that piece . I think that's part of the kind of the caught not taught Right .
I mean , we try to teach our kids the right things , but sometimes it's in the moment of when we go back and we're catching ourselves . It's being caught in the right moments by being observed by them .
Yeah , totally , a hundred percent . A hundred percent . We yeah , totally , 100% . We are the model , we offer the framework to our kids about how to process and work through life right .
And so things are not taught and we underestimate how much we model for our kids when we communicate authentically to them , when we own our stuff and when we also hold set and hold healthy boundaries in the middle of that , when we're able to show them what it looks like to hold yourself accountable but also not let go of like boundaries right .
That kind of sturdy balance is really important .
And then going back to that that you know , marriage , relationship or parents' relationships , sometimes that can even complicate . If there's not a good , healthy relationship there , that can often complicate then the relationship with your child . And it's almost you know , I equate it to like the . It's like kick the dog , right ?
So you have a terrible day at work , you know , and you come home and you hit all the red lights , all of these things , and at the end of the day you end up kicking the dog you know conceptually , but it had nothing to do with the dog .
Sometimes kids they're the ones who get things taken out when , when those relationships aren't good and there's not good communication or healthy communication in a marriage . And so what are some ways to navigate through that so that you are kind of creating this good foundation for your relationship with your kids ?
Yeah , so something I tell my clients all the time , because it's so counterintuitive , is a kids come first . Mindset will actually end up sabotaging both your relationship with your spouse and your relationship with your kids . You end up sabotaging both . Where the kids come first , mindset , marriage comes first mindset or relationship comes first .
Mindset actually allows you to enhance both your your relationship with your partner or spouse and your kids , and it's it feels so counterintuitive , right , and I remember telling this to a client once and one of them just looked at me just kind of like I was nuts , right , because it just feels like no , like there are kids , like if we don't take care of them
, like we've got to get born to it . And I just want to reassure all parents listening , I totally get that . Yes , I am not saying to neglect the children in any way , but it really is the idea of you know a few things right .
One , you and your spouse are the team in which you raise these kids and help them feel loved and supported , and to have a kids come first mindset is like saying we're going to let the team suffer and struggle but still expect to win the game right , which that doesn't work in like any other setting , right .
You can't expect , you can't say like no , no , no , we've got to win the game at the expense of like destroying the team right In any other setting where that makes perfect sense , that you've got to have a team that's solid , right .
And so the more you nurture your marriage , the more you the both of you be able to show up in a much more regulated , confident , fulfilled space , which then just means you have your best self to offer to your children . And so anything you can do , and you ask like , well , what can couples do ?
Honestly , anything like small things that prioritizes the relationship in front of the kids , like . I even just like ask some couples . I just ask them , like when's the last time your kids have seen you to like hug each other and kiss each other ? They're like I don't know , like maybe like last year or something you know , whatever Right , and like .
Like what if you just let your kids see that every day ? Like these , like types of small things sitting next to the sitting next to your spouse when's the last ? How much do you just sit next to your spouse during dinner time ? Never , like , we're always got like three kids in between us and we're passing things , or whatever .
Like what if you just shifted and you sat right next to each other and like there's just so many small things you can do to start sending this message of like the marriage comes , comes first to each other . Does that make sense ?
Yeah , absolutely Absolutely . And then the the observation of that from the kid's perspective . That's a really powerful thing , right ? Because again , it's the caught , not taught .
And when you're displaying that healthy , nurturing relationship between mom and dad , between that parental relationship , that child is going to eventually maybe get married , and how are they going to treat their spouse ? How are they going to treat their partner ? What kind of relationship are they going to be in ?
I think we're laying the pavers when it comes to what they expect out of relationships , and so that's a really big responsibility that we have to take seriously .
And also just going off with what you're saying . I think even just we model that in our marriage . We model that we also model to our kids how we treat ourselves right and how they should treat themselves .
I think sometimes as parents , we confuse being a present parent with being an always available parent , and what that ends up in is us completely sacrificing self-care , sacrificing our own hobbies , our own individuality .
But , like , kids need to see that what it looks like to take care of yourself , what it looks like to say , I would actually love to play right now , but I'm actually finishing this book right now . Give me 10 more minutes and then I can come play right . Or mom and dad are going on a date night , whatever it is like .
We model what it looks like to take care of ourselves . We model that it's a priority to take care of yourself . I think that's really important as well .
¶ Understanding Love Maps and Self-Compassion
Yeah , and when it comes to mindset and thoughts and emotions , we can create a lot of issues right . Oftentimes we are our own biggest limiting belief , you know , narrative of the story that's going on in our mind .
And so what can we do to get rid of some of those thought patterns and mindsets that don't serve us , don't serve the family at all , and replace those with ones again that are in service of creating what you hope to create ?
Yeah , the ironic answer is first , I would start by encouraging people to let go of the need to get rid of them , let go of the need to never have those types of thoughts or those meanings or anything , because a lot of those times those thoughts just kind of come up from our subconscious they come from past experiences and sometimes we can .
These types of thought patterns can really strengthen their grip on us when we have this idea that we shouldn't be having them right . Something's wrong with me for having these thoughts , something's wrong with me for assigning this meaning .
Whatever , these are bad and I need to not be having this , when in actuality , you know , I think it's much more effective just to learn how to observe these thoughts when they come up , and treat them actually with some self-compassion and say , oh , it makes sense why I'm having those thoughts , like based off of these experiences in my life or whatever , and I
get that my mind is what my mind's trying to do and that's okay . I'm not defined by them .
I can actually choose right now how I want to live , how I want to , what's important to me , I want to live how I want to what's important to me , and learning how to let go of the need for control , cause the more time we spend trying to control everything that's happening between our ears , the less time we have to just engage in life in ways that are
meaningful to us . Right , and so I think that's really that that is really powerful is just realizing , like you know , what . Actually these thoughts don't have to define me when they show up , I can choose to pivot and I can be really , I can be much more compassionate towards myself than I am . I think that's an important first step .
Yeah , it reminds me of just almost like honoring and holding space for a moment for them , right , because you can't just you can't completely ignore them right just because if they're , if they're always there , it's going to get your attention one way or another .
If you fixate on I want to get rid of all these thoughts , then you're almost fixated on them more because you're wanting to not be fixated on them .
And , ironically , ironically , you just reinforce those neural patterns , those neural pathways .
Right , and so honoring them and holding space for them for a moment , and even acknowledging you know that , that it may not be something that serves you , but this sound feeling right now . I think that is that is probably helpful in the process of maybe retraining your thought patterns and habits .
Totally . There's fascinating research out there in the power of self-compassion , power of self-compassion , power of self-love and the way I like to think of it . There's an idea in psychology and therapy coaching called parts work . I don't know if you've ever heard of parts work before or anything . It's fascinating .
There's a whole therapy model around it called internal family systems . It's what I use in my therapy and in my coaching with parents and individuals , and the idea is just a quick , watered down version of it .
But one idea of it is that all these thoughts and these emotions that show up in us , these behavioral tendencies , they're all just like parts of us that don't know and we're not defined by any one part and our tendencies like battle with these parts of us , like oh , why did I think that again , why did I feel that way , or why do I want to do this ,
Like what's wrong with me . But parts work says actually , all these parts of us are actually just trying to be helpful .
These are parts of us that are either scared , that are nervous , that are trying to figure out how to help us , how to protect us in some way or another , and so what these parts need is like compassion instead of battling right , you get a parent who , let's say , yells at their kid and then afterwards all the parent shame just comes right .
I can't believe I did that . What's wrong with me ? I am the worst . Right Like whatever . That's not going to serve them in any way . That's not going to help them in any way .
What if , instead , you looked at that part of you that yelled and you said , okay , that wasn't in line with the type of person I want to be and I want to work on that and I get why this part felt like that was the way to handle it . It wasn't right .
We're not excusing the behavior , but this was a part of me that felt really scared in that moment . Maybe I was scared that I was losing my kid , or I was being a terrible parent , or I'm failing at this , and I'm gonna choose to actually be compassionate towards that part of me and I'm gonna move forward . I'm gonna try and repair .
I'm just gonna try and move forward . Like self-compassion clears the way for progress and shame just like dumps rocks in your path and just keeps you from actually progressing .
Yeah , one of the things that you talked about I saw that you had put out was learning , learning and acknowledging your partner's love map . In really making sure that you're , you're honoring your partner and the things that are important to them . So what is that ? And you know what can . How can we learn to lean into it ?
Yeah , so this ? This is a term that comes from Drs John and Julie Gottman . They're one of the world's leading relationship experts . I would love to be able to say that I coined the term love maps and now I can write a book on it and be rich and famous . But the Gottmans , they are awesome and they determined that couples .
One of the hallmarks of a strong , connected relationship is that couples know each other's internal world , and a couple's internal world is always evolving and changing and partners stay current , stay consistent . So they use the term love map . Right , it's as in each , every , each partner has a map for their part , for their , for their partner's inner world .
They say , okay , this is what the , this is what my partner loves , this is what my partner desires , this is what my partner fears , these are my partner's best friends , this is what my partner's most interested in right now . This is the greatest challenges my partner's going through in their job and their relationship with their mother .
Like everything right , and what's important about this is you get that map and it's a terrain that's always evolving , and one of the biggest traps that couples fall into is they date and they get to know each other's world , and then they get married and they're really good at knowing each other's world for a couple of years , and then they have kids and then
life gets more complicated and messy and five years go down the road and they still think they have the current map . They don't realize that the terrain has completely changed and shifted and so they don't take the time to ask their partner those types of questions and really get to know each other .
¶ Navigating Connected Parenting Principles
But the Gottmans say that partners who are willing to do that , who are able to do that , that is a hallmark of a connected , strong , fulfilled relationship , and if it's not there , then you're playing with fire , so to speak .
As far as unfulfillment goes , I love that , and even in making sure it's the current map . Yeah , because there are those times when life gets a bit in the way in making sure it's the current map .
Yeah , because there are those times when life gets a bit in the way , right , and it's , I think , the intentionality of maybe re-exploring that , if you feel like you're maybe on your mind you're on the last version of their map and they're on the next version . And so really , you know , leaning in to explore what does that look like ?
And reinvesting the interest to find out what that new version looks like .
Totally Like connected couples stay fascinated with each other and if anyone's listening , they're like I don't even know how to begin asking these types of questions . There's a really , really fun app that you can download on your phone called the Gottman Card Dex really fun app that you can download on your phone called the Gottman card decks .
And it's just , it's a digital , digital card decks with just questions and after question after question after question , like so many questions that you can just you can download your phone and my wife and I have done that on a date night where we just pull out the card decks and we just ask each other questions and and there's everything from like really mundane
, mundane things to like really fun and spicy things , and it just can create awesome opportunities . If anyone's just like I don't even know where to begin , just download the Gotten and Card decks . It's a great place to start .
I'll tag that in the show notes as well , so that people can access that .
Yeah , yeah , it's great .
And then what are the ? You talk about five empowered principles for connecting parents or for for connected parenting , and how can we infuse these into our relationships with our kids ? What are those principles and how do we begin doing that ?
Yeah , yeah .
So just like an overview again , these are just five principles that I saw over and over again , where nothing's consistent a hundred percent in parenting , there's always nuances , but these principles seem to be really applicable to so many situations that can at least really ground parents , give them kind of an anchor to hang on to while they navigate the uncertainties
of parenting . And so just an overview of those five is first it always starts with self-love . That's the first principle .
More and more I realized that in anything in life , if we are engaging in a situation with this lens of my self-worth is on the line , then we're going to show up defensive , we're going to show up critical , we're going to show up in self-protection mode .
The more we just like , the more we accept ourselves , the more we love ourselves , the less time we have to spend in self-protection mode . Right , because then things our kids do don't threaten our self-worth anymore .
Right , if a kid talks back and I've got this like fear , this insecurity of like I'm not enough in some way , then them talking back is really kind of a threat to my inner system . Right , but if I've healed that part of me there's self-acceptance , self-love then all of a sudden that behavior doesn't have to mean something so scary , right ?
So then the second principle just kind of piggybacks off . The first is before anything else , go inside . So whenever a couple of parents ask me , like my kid's doing this , like how do I solve this , the first thing I'll have them do is say okay , first of all let's get curious about what's happening inside of you first . And so that's .
The second principle is before anything else , before you try another technique or another task strategy , figure out what's happening inside of you first and let's process through that . And then the third principle is embrace the long game the parents are set , myself included .
We really want quick fixes for a lot of things , and one of the most common things I hear when parents want advice , I'll give them some advice . And then one of the most common things they'll say back in return is well , we've already tried that once . That didn't work . Like , what else do you have for me ?
And my response is well , that's great , because the best parenting requires the most consistence , the most patience . Quick fixes are usually rooted in like shame and fear and like guilt . The long game is what you're doing . I had a parent reach out to me , we were talking and she's like my kid is always on their phone .
We're always battling back and forth and I said we had to slow it down and I said to her . I said to her I was like , okay , the goal here is not to get your kid all of a sudden stop being on his phone .
The goal is to handle this in such a way that in 20 years from now , your kid wants to talk to you , wants to call you up on his phone and talk to you . That's the goal and right now , the way we're handling it , we're ruining those chances . We've got to pull back right .
Then the fourth principle is we are our kid's prefrontal cortex and that sounds really kind of lame and sciencey , but just really quick , right . Like . Our kids are like all limbic system , and our limbic system is the part of us that's like here and now , me , me , me , fight or flight , and that's fully developed at age five .
The prefrontal cortex won't be developed till like around age 25 . So whatever age a child is in the home , they're mostly running on prefrontal cortex or , sorry , limbic system . They're mostly running on limbic system .
Prefrontal cortex is the part of us that has like executive functioning , knows how to set boundaries , values , morals , everything , and so when our kid is doing unhelpful behavior , what's probably happening is it's a hardware issue , more than anything . You're not a terrible parent , they're not . They're not evil children , right , like it's just a hardware issue .
And they need us to show them , model for them , what it looks like to let a prefrontal cortex kind of rein things in and whatnot . And so we've got to do the work to make sure we're not approaching their limbic system response with our own limbic system response . You've got to show up the prefrontal cortex that makes sense .
Yeah , last one , it's a little science and nerdy , but I think it's super important , right right and then the fifth parenting . there's just the . The last one is connection over correction and just reminding ourselves that what we're trying to do here is foster a connection with our kids .
We're trying to help them feel seen , trying to help them feel heard , and when they do that , then they trust us and they're actually more willing to listen . In fact , research is fascinating . Research shows that one of the best ways , one of the biggest indicators of teenage respect is the quality of the relationship with their parent .
Right , if they just like being with their parent , then they're more likely to respect and listen to rules . And so those are the five parenting principles in a nutshell .
Awesome , awesome . And the prefrontal cortex piece . I think so often it's like we expect because they're of sound mind and over age five , like you get it , you know right from wrong , but yet we fail to realize that their brain is actually not fully complete yet . It's not fully finished .
Yeah , we lose sight of that , and so we want to hold them accountable , as if they're a 30 year old person and yet their brain is , is their , you know their actual age and they're not fully there yet . So I think I think that is great just to be aware of and to remind ourselves of .
And , honestly , a lot of times we put way higher expectations on how our kids should handle things than we do for ourselves . Right , they get angry and we're like stop , be an adult . Right , we're getting angry too .
We're completely matching them , but yet we're holding them to higher expectation of how they should be processing their emotions , and I think just that principle has been really helpful for me in just reminding okay , this is just a hardware issue , like we just got to help them develop the hardware in between their ears , and that takes time . That takes patience .
Right . I heard someone say it on a podcast maybe a year ago , and it too was just very enlightening for me , and that was we ask our kids to do things in a way that our current self understands those things .
And so he used this example of , like you tell your kids to do the dishes right , and then you get ticked off and you go back and you completely rearrange the dishwasher because they didn't do it right . But have you ever actually shown your kids how to load the dishwasher Right , right ?
And I was like , oh , because I tell him like okay , you know , my , our kids have chores , and so vacuuming is a big thing for me , cause I , like , I like to get all this stuff off the floor . Then I they vacuum , then I mop .
Yeah .
And and my younger son , he's oftentimes , you know just , and he's vacuuming kind of random circles and shapes and yeah , and I'm like you missed , like you know , this giant , whatever on the floor . Did you vacuum ? Yeah , I vacuumed . Well , buddy , I told you to vacuum really good , I did .
After that I was like you know what I had to go to the to both my boys and I'm like I I have expected things out of you based on my 45 year old sense of how I know how to do things . I've been vacuuming for a whole lot longer than they've been alive and so I have a whole lot more practice .
But I've never actually said here's how you vacuum or here's you know . And so it was really really enlightened for me to step back and go okay , when I ask them to do things , I need to make sure that they fully understand what I'm asking of them first .
Totally , and that like applies to literally like everything that they're doing . Like one thing that really so in my own experience , one thing that really would get me going with reactivity is when my five-year-old would like lie to me , right , right .
And because in my mind I'm saying all this meaning of like oh my gosh , like don't you know your word is your bond and like what are you talking about ?
You know you're gonna end up in prison someday , right , like , just like go going off , and I realized like this kid has had five years to try and like figure out how to like navigate uncomfortable things and like like how to navigate the fact that the truth is uncomfortable , right , you know . And like it's kind of easier to avoid it .
And like I'm , like I'm in my thirties and I still like tell lies sometimes , you know .
And so , just like I love that example that you're saying because I think it applies to everything Like when we show up in like a different way for our kids , we're not like letting go of our boundaries , like we're not like forgetting to parent and like letting them do whatever , but we're just approaching with a space of they are trying to figure this world out
, and if all we ever offer them is just our own limbic response in return . Right , what's wrong with you ? What are you doing , like something like why can't you get this right ?
Then all we're doing is just kind of we're missing the opportunity just to help them make sense of their world that they desperately need help making sense of , and so , yeah , anyway , I just love that . I love what you added I think it applies to everything .
Absolutely Well . As we wrap up , I want to talk about something that is coming
¶ Children's Book Series and Empowered Families
for you . You're in the process of working on a children's book , and so let's talk through that . What does that look like for you ?
Yeah , so it's going to be a children's book series . I was reading I would like read books with my kids and be like this is , after about the 70th time reading the book , being like I want to burn this book . I cannot do this book ever again . And so it made me realize like I want to write books .
What if I wrote books that I really felt like could like teach kids mental health principles , really teach them important values ? And then I realized , too , that I was like you know what , what if I wrote books that like actually helped parents to know , to like guide them on having conversations with their kids about values and mental health principles ?
And so that led to creating a children's book series .
It's called Jungle Tales , about jungle animals and they go with like different adventures and stuff and they're inspired by my kids' personalities and the goal is these to be children's books for parents , children's books that , like parents can actually enjoy reading their kids and be like , oh yes , I want to teach this to my kids .
Like I want to really instill this and hopefully create opportunities for conversations with their kids . And yeah , and that , yeah , so the first book is about to get published .
The illustrator is just finishing up the finishing touches next week actually and then we'll start getting ready for a launch and got the second book manuscript all written and everything , so there'll be launching very soon . We're pretty excited about it .
That is awesome .
Well , we'll want to make sure to highlight that when they come out as well , and , and you know , however , we can support you with that process , because I think we need all the tools and resources and support and guidance we can get right , like that's how we become better as parents , that's how we raise our kids , you know , in a way in which we raise them
to be really good , healthy humans .
Right Totally , I think , all the resources we can get absolutely . Parents need a community where they just feel like they can rely on people , rely on each other , support each other , and so that's what we're trying to build with these books and with the Empowered Families community and everything , so hopefully it can make a difference in parents' lives .
Awesome . Well , you also recently just launched your coaching business , and so what does that look like for those who maybe is it specific to parents ? Is it kids ? Is it both ?
Yeah , Specific to parents , yeah , so the company is called Empowered Families . My wife and I co-founded it and we just barely started about six months ago , and so we're right now we're working on just building the community . There's a newsletter that people can join .
Right now I offer individual coaching for parents just to kind of work on themselves , do their own inner work .
I really believe 80% of parenting is just doing your own inner work and learning how to show up more powerfully for our kids , and so that's what we do in our coaching and as well as we kind of we work our kids , and so that's what we do in our coaching .
And as well as we kind of break , we work we , we work through like challenging parenting situations as well . And but then , but from there we're wanting to grow the community , do some group coaching things . We'll do some couples retreats , things like that . We're excited to see it grow .
But for now there's the newsletter that people can join and then , um , the , the one-on-one coaching experience that people can get some more individualized help with .
Well , and so let's make sure that everyone knows you know where . Where can they find you , where can they follow you ? Where can they sign up if they want to do coaching for the newsletter ? We'll put all this in the show notes , but where can everyone find and follow you ?
LinkedIn is where I'm most active . I'll definitely give you the link for that to put in the show notes , because there's probably about a million Michael Andersons on LinkedIn . My , my parents blessed me with a very boring name but but I'll put yeah , so I'll hand you that . I'll send you that link . That's the best place to contact me . You can dm me .
There's a link there to sign up for a free coaching consult . The link to join the newsletter is right there on my profile page . That's kind of the hub and please DM me and just say hi and I swear I'm a friendly person so you can message me and happy to help any way I can .
¶ Parenting Tips and Resources
Awesome . Well , thank you , michael , just for coming on spending the time to kind of walk through some of these things that so many of us parents encounter . Sometimes we understand it and don't know how to respond to it .
Sometimes we don't even understand it , and so I think , anything where we can amplify and put out their ways and resources for parents to figure out and get a little bit deeper within themselves so that they can really show up to the best parent they can be for their kids , Absolutely yeah , and thanks again , sunny , for having me on and it's been a treat , so
thank you . Thank you so much for listening and for being here on this journey with me . I hope you'll stick around If you liked this episode . It would mean the world for me if you would rate and review the podcast or share it with someone you know . Many need to hear this message .
I love to hear from you all and want you to know that you can leave me a voicemail directly . If you go to my website , evokegreatnesscom , and go to the contact me tab , you'll just hit the big old orange button and record your message . I love the feedback and comments that I've been getting , so please keep them coming .
I'll leave you with the wise words of author Robin Sharma Greatness comes by doing a few small and smart things each and every day . It comes from taking little steps consistently .
It comes from making a few small chips against everything in your professional and personal life that is ordinary , so that a day eventually arrives when all that's left is the extraordinary .