¶ Welcome to Year Three of Evoke Greatness
Welcome to Evoke Greatness . We are officially entering year three of this podcast and I am filled with so much gratitude for each and every one of you who've joined me on this incredible journey of growth and self-discovery . I'm Sunny , your host and fellow traveler on this path of personal evolution .
This podcast is a sanctuary for the curious , the ambitious and the introspective . It's for those of you who , like me , are captivated by the champion mindset and driven by an insatiable hunger for growth and knowledge .
Whether you're just beginning your journey or you're well along your path , you're going to find stories here that resonate with your experiences and aspirations . Over the last two years , we've shared countless stories of triumph and challenge , of resilience and transformation . We've laughed , we've reflected and we've grown together .
And as we've evolved , so too has this podcast . Remember , no matter what chapter you're on in your own story , you belong here . This community we've built together is a place of support , inspiration and shared growth . Where intention goes , energy flows , and the energy you bring to this space elevates us all .
So , whether you're listening while commuting , working out or enjoying your morning coffee , perhaps from one of those motivational mugs I'm so fond of , know that you're a part of something special . Thank you for being here . Thank you for your curiosity , your openness and your commitment to personal growth .
As we embark on year three , I invite you to lean in , to listen deeply and to let these stories resonate with your soul . I believe that a rising tide raises all ships and I invite you along in this journey to evoke greatness .
¶ Introducing Dr. Sylvia Rowe-Libanau
Welcome back to another episode of Evoke Greatness , where we uncover the wisdom of remarkable individuals making a genuine impact in our world . Today , we're joined by Dr Sylvia Rowe-Libanau , founder of the Smart Power Method and a leadership expert with over 30 years of experience transforming how leaders create impact with ease .
With a PhD in international relations and a background spanning from European Investment Bank to her current work coaching C-suite executives at organizations like UNHCR , european Central Bank and Amazon , sylvia brings a uniquely powerful perspective .
What truly sets her apart is how she integrates her artistic talents as a painter , dancer and singer into her leadership approach , giving clients an embodied understanding of presence and authenticity . Her upcoming book who's in Charge promises to reveal pathways to resilience and meaningful leadership . Sylvia , welcome to the show .
Hello Sunny . It's such a pleasure to speak to you today .
Well , I always like to kick it off in learning a little bit more about your story . What was it ? You come from a background of banking and have woven in so much of this artistic component of life to lead you . What led you to the current path you're on today ?
¶ From Politics to Leadership Development
Well , the path led me to the path . So banking is probably something that if you had asked me when I was in my 20s I wouldn't have dreamt of going into , because I studied political science and I was actually like torn between psychology and political science .
So I ended up doing political science and law and focused on international relations , both my master's and the PhD , and I always studied , like , psychological aspects of politics and was very fascinated fascinated about power , about like is is power really what we think it is , or is it also something different ?
And so I studied power in my master's , which was about the un disarmament conference , and then in my phd , which was about the like of NGOs and transnational collaboration on government politics and how actually the non-government actors had an influence on the East-West conflict and how it ended , and so that taught me a lot .
But then I decided not to continue in academia but to go into the practical world , which was a very good decision , because as soon as I had landed there I realized that rolling up my sleeves and doing something practical made me much more happy than sitting behind my desk and studying things and debating academic wisdoms .
And so my first job was at the European Commission dealing with development cooperation . And so there I was fascinated about like , why does an organization change and another does not change , when we were helping institutions to reform , and also , how did the institution in which I was working , the European Commission itself , how did that function ?
Why did people behave the way they behaved and what worked and what kind of leadership style worked ? And what kind of leadership style worked ? A bit less .
And one of the things that fascinated me very early on was this know , these silos in organizations , how they sometimes inhibit good outcomes , where I was told very early on , you shouldn't give information to them because then they will take over and say , well , but we have to talk to them because actually by talking to each other and by sharing information we
will have better outcomes together . So that was early insights and well , that was in the institution . And then I went to consulting , actually because I had the feeling that consultants sometimes did the more juicy work compared to the administrators in the institution when it came to these development cooperation programs .
And from there then I ended up finally in banking , but it was not as a banker but in organization development and coaching , which I had studied when I was in consulting .
So I worked for 17 years for the European Investment Bank dealing with career management , talent management , organization health , where I was leading that function , creating that function for a few years , and then finally with leadership development .
And then , having dealt with leadership development in that fantastic institution which I'm working for , at a certain stage I felt like now I want to do more of that beyond this institution . So that's when I left in , like three years ago , when I left the European Investment Bank to work as a leadership coach and facilitator for many different organizations .
Sounds like we're very aligned . In early in my career I was committed , I was all in on psychology . I was so fascinated by what made people do and think and behave in the manner in which they did .
I didn't end up going into psychology , I ended up going into nursing , but I still think that was a thread that was woven through my career and I think today , farther in my career , I probably embrace that much more of really loving the psychological aspect behind what people take , and so I think that's a similar thread throughout stories .
Isn't that also interesting ? Because nursing is also a very psychological profession .
That's right .
My understanding of this psychology .
That's right . I never thought about that but I thought , oh man , I can see today looking back , but I think , as I thought , shifting out of psychology and focusing on nursing , I kind of felt like I was giving that up or leaving that behind . It really partnered with me all through my career .
You had a LinkedIn post and this goes to really talking about your book and your concept of this smart power LinkedIn post and you distinguish these different kinds of power destructive power , choose power and what you call a smarter kind of power . I would love for you to just kind of share a little bit more about what makes up each of those .
¶ Rethinking Power: The Smart Power Method
So let me start with how I got to this , talking about power . It was really seeing that what people believe to be power is sometimes not that powerful . So in the corporate world , for instance , when people believe like pushing and having control over people or things , that makes them powerful .
But then you see that using that kind of power often makes people end up achieving less than they could if they had a different approach .
So that made me thought ah , maybe power is actually something different , and so my proposition is let's rethink power so that actually we can achieve more , that we are more successful , and let's question whether power equals force and control is really the right answer , or whether there is maybe another approach that we could use .
And what I found is that leaders who use a more purposeful approach to say , not only I'm in control , but hey , people , there is something that we can achieve together and that's inspiring , so let's go there together . They have more followership and therefore they're more effective .
Then the aspect of collaboration to privilege , like the one plus one is 11 kind of idea . So it's not that by controlling and being on top that I will achieve more , but to be open to say , well , I want to go there . What do you think ? What do you think about it ?
Can we maybe merge our strategies and merge our resources and achieve more together so that actually makes me more powerful ? And merge our resources and achieve more together ? So that actually makes me more powerful ?
It might look as though I was losing power because I'm giving up some control or I'm opening myself up to ideas from other people , but in the end I achieve more . That's simply what we can find when we compare the leadership styles of people . And then it's also more on the personal side .
If you see leaders that are afraid of showing emotions , they're afraid of connecting to others personally , they tend to be less powerful .
I've seen it very often Someone says , yes , but I can't show my personality at work , because work is work and personal life is personal life , but then people don't trust them that much because they can't see who they really are .
And for instance , also when you are in a conflict situation maybe a difficult conversation and you are in a conflict situation , maybe a difficult conversation and you hide behind a wall of I'm not showing anything about my feelings or I'm hiding behind rules rather than being personal . That's a less powerful conversation than being authentically there .
So the third aspect of smarter power is just to summarize it is to be authentic , so it's purposeful , it is about collaboration and there are more facets to that . And then there's the authentic personal power .
It's so interesting that you say that in . I think sometimes , especially early in one's career , power is maybe more of a perception than a lived experience . Right , because you've not gone through that . Back in the early days , in my very first role of leadership , I had an approach that was not the right approach .
My perception was power was this bold thing that you grab a hold of ? You are the leader , you are the one leading . I shake my head now like what a fool I was . But a lot of lessons came out of it , and so that's why I wouldn't change it , because I took and I learned and I grew so much as a result of it .
What I found was that was my perception , but I had no lived experience .
And so once I started getting a lived experience , I fell down and I made some mistakes and I realized that I can't lead a team with I , and so , as I shifted to being open to actually sharing some of those mistakes that I made early on , which there's always a situation where you feel a little embarrassed by it or you feel like it makes you look like you
don't know it all . Well , guess what ? We don't when we're stepping into it and that's okay , like that's the authenticity .
And so I think , by getting to a place of sharing those mistakes and those missteps , like I would much rather have somebody vicariously live through my mistakes and step over the potholes that I stepped into and be able to have that and then it was learning to actually like put my arms out and lock arms with inclusivity of my team , because I could drive that
team as hard or as far as I could , but it's to your point .
The smart way to do it is to really say what is this vision , that we can go get together , that we feel like collectively we believe it and we're willing to work towards no-transcript , but I really do think that that is such an important part of leadership that I almost hope people have to go through the hard to get the lessons and the insight out of it .
Absolutely ,
¶ Authenticity in Leadership Without Emotional Pollution
and it's sometimes this idea which I often get , especially in team developments or leadership trainings when it comes to emotional intelligence and communication , when they say , yes , but emotions I can do them at home or with good friends , but not , please , not at work , and I get that it's .
It can be difficult to to step into that because it's if you've been told your whole life not to do that , then you can't . It's very difficult to change that rapidly , but the truth is that when you do , when you use your emotions , that means your full self .
Then you connect better again , people trust you and , by the way , you also have more fun because you're actually living while being at work and not only functioning , and things become more easy , as you said , like you can say , well , I don't know this , or yesterday I actually made a mistake , I'm really sorry about that .
And when you say that and you mean it , so people can feel you , then actually it's where it really becomes interesting , not only using the words but really feeling that connection to other people .
I think that also sets an example . It gives people permission to show up more authentically in that interaction versus it being a transactional relationship .
You have interactions and then you allow for space where people can really show up with their whole selves , and I think there's always that fine line of showing your emotions , and I think that's more about self-awareness , right , we don't want to be so loosely emotional but at the same time , we don't want to be stoic and not have any emotion whatsoever .
And I think you , you learn and get more comfortable , as you , I think , get more comfortable with your own self and your own leadership .
Yeah , yeah , I mean , that's one very good concept is like to speak out but not act out . So showing your emotions doesn't mean like I'm emotional , I am angry now , no . But it could mean like I feel angry and I'm going to say , well , this is not okay with me , because anger is the emotion of saying this is not okay with me .
So so to speak up , I'm setting the boundary here . So you use your emotion as a signal to like , oh , this is not , this is not okay , and you can what you said before . You can give a little like dose of your anger , like , because you will not say that with a smiling I'm angry . You can say , well , this is not okay with me and people .
So you can use some of your emotion to express that , but very correctly , especially when you're in a leadership function . You will not pollute the environment with your unfiltered expression of the emotion . You will feel it like you will also not run around in a piggy dance when you're happy . You will express it in a way that people can deal with it .
So I think that's the magic of it to feel it and then to share it in a way that is healthy for others . And again , especially when you're in a leadership function . It's not your team's job to manage your emotions .
So neither to be in the spotlight for the whole day because your daughter's getting married that's beautiful , but maybe other people have something going on as well and not to pollute when you're in a bad place , because as a leader , your impact is exponentially high on the team . So anything that you do , especially that is negative , will weigh on your team .
And I think language is important , and I love the word that you use around pollute , because to me when I think about pollute , I think about , like pollution , right Filling the air with something that isn't healthy , and so I love you say that because I think that provides a really good visualization of what are you bringing to the air in your leadership ?
Are you bringing ? You know we talk about ? I think one of the buzzwords today is toxicity . Right , like , oh , I have a toxic workplace . What kind of ? In what ways ? Or are you bringing any ? You know ? Are you polluting the air ? I really , really like that . That really sits with me well and it makes me observe .
It makes me the owner of observing what I'm bringing .
Yeah , and that's the question again of power . Because if you pollute the environment with your unfiltered whatever happens , then as a leader you're less powerful because people will go into hiding . They will not trust .
Trust you less , trust each other less because the atmosphere becomes unsafe , so you will achieve less because your team will not be at its best when you do that . And that's a very good reason to .
If it doesn't come naturally to work at it or to use that capacity to say , okay , what's what's the right way to to express myself here authentically , because authenticity doesn't mean I always say everything that that just comes or I'm my unfiltered self , like I'm an authentic asshole . But it's not what it is about Exactly .
It means authenticity means more to show up fully , to be really present , to be open , but in the healthy way of being myself , which means also authenticity requires some work .
So when I show up , I show up in my healthy version and not in my messed up version you you've written about , uh , in your book you wrote about a concept called grounded leadership and it seems particularly relevant , just in kind of the , I guess , the volatile world that we're living in . Today .
How , how would you guide leaders to remain centered and present when facing the volatility or unprecedented change , complexity , the things that are thrown at us ? It sometimes feels very heavy .
Yeah , love this question . It's really important . So to me , there are two main aspects there . The first is purpose . So what I've experienced and there's a lot of literature about that also is when we are grounded in a purpose , like something that is really important to us , that we care about
¶ Grounded Leadership: Purpose and Embodiment
, then we are more resilient and therefore also more powerful . We are able to pull through better , but also we are able to convince more . So that's one thing . So in chaos , there's a very good like book and like philosophy actually about that .
Maybe you , you know as a psychologist , victor franco , yes , like the , the father of the , it's not not logopedy , it's the logotherapy around this therapy of purpose , of therapy of reason . And he observed also that other people who survived were the ones who had a purpose beyond the day-to-day and in this extreme environment .
I find this so powerful to know this Like it actually works . It's actually something that is beyond powerful to be connected to our purpose . So that can be in this big , like important environment , and that can also be like how do we survive and thrive in the current like important environment ?
And that can also be like how do we , how do we survive and thrive in the current very chaotic environment like , do we like despair ? Or do we say , oh yes , but there is a bigger purpose that I want to pursue and that will actually help me move forward and be resilient and also be convincing , because I'm working towards something mightier .
So that's one thing . The second is what I work on a lot and which is linked to my other life , which is about dance and art .
And the body is when we are living , inhabiting our body is when we are living , inhabiting our body , when we are comfortable in our body , when we are connected to our breath , it's so much easier to survive a rough day or to orient ourselves in a difficult environment . It works because our body and emotion gets impacted by what happens .
Just imagine you want to cross a road and there's a truck coming and it almost runs you over . You're impacted physically , emotionally , but it works also the other way emotionally , but it works also the other way .
So when we are working our body , when we are , when we are able to inhabit our body , to be comfortable in the body , then our emotional and mental state are more solid .
So that is super effective work and I use it a lot with my clients and I see how beautifully it works for them , does have so much to do with , I think , probably getting to know yourself better , right , would you say , like inhabiting your body .
There's so often , and I think so much of it has to do with TV and social media and these images that are portrayed as to you know what amazing looks like , when we can still feel amazing , no matter what body we're in , and I think , leaning into that piece , there's like this inner . There's inner , there's a joy , almost like a childlike , right .
It's like that , that awe and wonder and that joy of leaning into that . And when you're in that space , when you're occupying your own body in that way , the hard feels a little lighter , the difficulty feels , you know , feels a little less weighty .
It feels very different . It feels very different because when we are physically present in the body , like one can try that out immediately , like you're listening to this and you just after this fall , even while you're listening , you connect to your breath and you really feel into oh , I'm here in my body .
You will feel how different that feels and it's exactly something . It's this oh , I feel a sort of happiness that comes from nowhere , and therefore also resilience and strength .
Okay , you know the routine . This is where I hit the pause button . I hope you've enjoyed part one of Smart Power and Authentic Leadership with Dr Sylvia Rode-Libanau . Make sure to come back next week where she guides us through practical tools for embodied leadership and navigating our increasingly complex world .
Discover the ABC method for instant centering , why the heart is the most dysfunctional organ in today's organizations and how to distinguish true intuition from workplace bias . I think you're going to enjoy it , so hope to see you next week . Thank you so much for listening and for being here on this
¶ Episode Wrap and Next Week Preview
journey with me . I hope you'll stick around If you liked this episode . It would mean the world for me if you would rate and review the podcast or share it with someone you know . Many need to hear this message . I love to hear from you all and want you to know that you can leave me a voicemail directly .
If you go to my website , evokegreatnesscom , and go to the Contact Me tab , you'll just hit the big old orange button and record your message . I love the feedback and comments that I've been getting , so please keep them coming . I'll leave you with the wise words of author Robin Sharma Greatness comes by doing a few small and smart things each and every day .
It comes from taking little steps consistently . It comes from making a few small chips against everything in your professional and personal life that is ordinary , so that a day eventually arrives when all that's left is the extraordinary .