Command with Courage: J. Scot Heathman (Part 2)

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Welcome back to another episode of Evoke Greatness . We are stepping into part two here of Command with Courage , with my guest Scott Heathman , and a little recap for anyone who might have missed part one , which is episode 104 . So make sure you go back and listen to that and this will meld right in and really be a compliment to episode 104 . Again , a recap .

Scott is a retired Air Force colonel who has led thousands of people in his career .

He's taken all of his years of wisdom and experience and poured them into creating his company as the founder and CEO of Elevating Others , where he inspires CEOs and frontline leaders to command with courage so that they too can unleash the force within their team , ignite their innovative spirit and skyrocket their bottom line . Scott , welcome back .

And so I feel like we got a lot of great stuff out of part one and now we're diving back to go a little deeper in part two , and so one of the things that I love , love , love to ask people who have had such success and greatness as you have in your career is what's been the most powerful lesson that you have had ?

That maybe seemed like a failure or a misstep in the moment , those things that are super painful , yet on the other side of it is something absolutely impactful and transformative . What comes to mind when you think about that ?

So I'd promoted a captain and , you know , was getting more senior in that rank and I can remember I was given a position as an assistant director of operations .

So , as you would think , in the military we're running flight operations and I'm not the director of operation but his assistant , and we were trying to figure out how could we reduce the sequence of events that when a pilot shows up for a sortie or a mission to go fly an airplane , you know there's a couple hours worth of different things we got to get done .

You know , we show up , we got to get all of our life support equipment , we got to pick up our intelligence , get briefings , we have to go get weather briefs and then we have to actually have our crew pre-briefed .

There's just a lot of time spent and we were trying to figure out ways that we could shave , you know , minutes here and there so that we could get that sequence down to something that's , you know , really tight , so that we didn't have to spend so much time in the ground . We can get get on doing our business .

And one of those areas where we could shave time was we could move a lot of the life support equipment over to base operations , which is where we have to go to get our weather briefs and some of our communications gear .

And if it was over there , well then we could kind of just starburst and you know , hey , load , master , you go this way , you go pick up that , go get our helmets , I'll get our weather brief . So we can not spend all this time traveling from point A to point B to point C .

And I was working with the operational support squadron , which are the folks that handle the life support gear , and there was a chief master sergeant who was in charge of a lot of the life support gear as far as the handling of it , making sure the airmen are taking good care of it and everything's locked up and properly stored and all that .

And it seemed to me like he was being this big friction in us reducing the sequence of events and I didn't have much of a relationship with him .

I knew who he was , but we didn't really know each other at all , we never talked outside of this initiative to kind of reduce the time , and we're conversing mostly over email and it's kind of this back and forth .

Now I outrank him , you know , for those that don't understand the rank and structure here , but this chief has been in the military probably , you know , 20 to 30 years , you know . I don't remember . You know how long they were in and I had been in the military . You know about six , you know .

So I'm at one point in the conversation I could tell like he was being kind of this stick in the mud about trying to do this . And I've been told by my commander we got to get this done and I was basically using my commander's language , my boss's language , to kind of forcefully influence .

You know the atmosphere here , right , and I had sent him a somewhat of a very direct email . I had sent him a somewhat of a very direct email and I remember , you know , later on , when I went back and read it , yeah , it didn't have any colorful language , but it certainly was not the most respectful email . It was very passive , aggressive and all that .

And so I sent this email and I hit enter and I walked away going all right , you know this guy's going to definitely change now . Well , a couple hours later , my boss came back , who's a Lieutenant Colonel , squadron commander , and he said hey , scott , can I see you in my office just for a couple minutes ?

I'm like , yeah , so I go in and I say , hey , what's up , boss ? He goes , he goes . Hey , that email that you sent to Chief , we'll call him Smith , chief , smith , what did you expect to get out of that ? I said , well , I expected us to get to you know , reduce the time and get us to the point where we can move everything over and yada , yada , yada .

And he goes . Well , I happen to have the email right here and he had it printed out .

And he said , yeah , chief , and I had a long discussion about your email and we both came to the conclusion that you probably didn't need to write that , because what I didn't know was my squadron commander was actually in the chief's office when I hit send on that email and he was already working this deal , but he was meeting face to face .

You know having coffee breaking bread . You know having coffee breaking bread .

And here's this very front-leaning , precocious , you know , six-year captain thinking like it's my way or the highway , and I hit send and I tell you what I learned from that was an Abraham Lincoln lesson , and what Abraham Lincoln used to do when he would write a letter Maybe he was upset , he would write the letter , but he would never send it .

He would open his drawer and he would put it in the drawer and then he'd write the letter . That probably is far more appropriate to send , like maybe he was , you know , relieving one of his commanders , but he still did it with respect , right , he still did it without being different than who his own personality was .

And that taught me the lesson of one if you're going to type an email , never do it when you're angry . Or if you do , do it , hit print , read it and then put it in the drawer never send it and then retype the email and you know when you're in a much better state of mind . But to also the value of relationships .

I had not invested in that relationship at all and I was actually in a position to be the first person to instigate that investment and I never did . And you know , from from that point on , I said I said I am never going to send an email like that to someone that I've never talked to on the phone before or at least had a cup of coffee with .

I mean , certainly we get upset and we get angry , but when you're friends with somebody you can get over that kind of stuff and probably understand what you're both dealing with .

But for someone that I didn't even give a chance to get to know , that was so unprofessional and that honestly set me up for a lot of life lessons that I would learn in leadership for gosh the next 15 years plus , that every relationship matters and you should spend the time getting to know someone rather than just trying to always ask for something from them .

Yeah , In that moment when maybe I'm a little more driven by my ego or I'm a little more driven by the principle of feeling right , and I think those emotions can really drive us and of course , that's the beauty of wisdom .

The beauty of wisdom is that over time and over making these mistakes and just maybe errors in judgment , we can fine tune or polish ourselves to handle situations differently . Regularly , whether it be a text , whether it be you know , you type it out and then you delete it .

Or you type the email out , you delete it like , print it , look at it , throw it in the garbage , feel like I got that out , that element of venting or releasing and then come back to the place of what would my best self do in this situation ? Right , my calm , confident best self , and I think that changes our responses quite a bit .

But I love that story .

To me , that's you're almost fixing potential problems that you're not even aware of upstream by not sending it , versus if you did send it . Now I'm dealing with my boss . Now I'm dealing with a chief who doesn't respect me .

And oh , by the way , that chief could have very easily went and told everybody else in their organization about how to deal with Captain Heathman . You know't deal with him , or he goes and gets his boss , and now it's this big ordeal , when all I needed to do was take a step back . Think about what I was doing .

I'm not the boss , I was just asked to go perform a task . But what was in my head was I'm going to perform this to the best of my abilities , get it done quick , and I don't care who's in my path .

That probably flows into some self-management as well . But so very high EQ , someone with high EQ would recognize that's not the right place to be for me . And then also somebody with cultural intelligence , understanding the behaviors that are at play here in the organizational environment .

Definitely not something that we need to do here Because , again , if I don't have awareness of all of our individual behaviors and how we could potentially react , I'm going to hit , send every time and not even realize the damage that I'm doing .

So I think it's almost a combination of those two skills , both from an awareness of self and awareness of the organization . What could potentially happen , organization , what could potentially happen .

There's where you could save , I think again , days , months of drama , interpersonal violence , if you will , within an organization that many organizations suffer from , and then next thing you know that all bleeds down to people showing up in the parking lot not even wanting to walk in the door right . It all has an effect .

And I'm curious how do you think cultural intelligence can elevate a leader's abilities and what steps can leaders take to have a better understanding around , like strategies for managing diverse teams , which that exists everywhere , it's not just a military thing , it's not just a civilian thing exists everywhere .

How do we better handle and navigate those relationships with cultural intelligence ?

Even if I'm talking to somebody that may have grown up in the same neighborhood as me , their environment may still be radically different than mine . Or if we're not the same color or the same race or nationality , we actually still may be thinking alike , though .

So , again , what I think a leader needs to do to understand this kind of key of using diversity as an asset is you got to be opening to , listening and asking questions , and there can be a lot of fear , I think , for leaders when it comes to asking questions , and you know it's something you have to practice . You don't get good at it unless you practice .

What does it look like in everyday life ? It could be something like you and I pass each other in the hallway and , instead of saying what's up and nodding and we just keep walking by . You know , hey , sonny , how's your day going ? Tell me something good . That's happened today . That's it . That's it . A couple of things I've just done there One .

I've paused us from walking by and acknowledged you , and hopefully you acknowledge me the same way . But now I've also elicited an open-ended question where you can't just say yes or no or everything's fine . You actually now have to talk to me , but I've asked you of that so it doesn't feel as intimidating , right ?

Like , tell me something good that's happening today . You know it could be . Hey , I got to work on time . It's been tough having the kids drive me crazy every morning . You know that may be a huge deal to someone , or it may be . I got a great workout in this morning and I'm trying to , you know , lose weight . And oh , tell me more about that .

That's another question that leaders I think need to have in their arsenal . Tell me more , tell me more . And then I think probably the best question that leaders can ask is to say the words I don't know what do you think ? Or I don't know what's your opinion on this .

Too many times , I think leaders are trying to fill the space and not elicit input or perspective from others , and I don't know is not a sign of weakness . It's actually a sign of you're inclusive with your audience here , with your teammates . So there was no way in the world that , being a commander of an Air Force base , that I knew at all .

There's no manual , you know , just like a mayor of a city doesn't have a book to reference . You know , yeah , you got some mentors that probably have done it before that you can lean on . But my time in command is different than the previous commanders . My time in command had COVID .

The previous commander did not even have to deal with that Completely different set of dynamics involved , and so when people start asking you things like , well , how are we going to operate now under COVID , or how are we going to do this , I think it's okay , and I said it many a time .

You know , I don't know , but I think if we , if we spend some time working through this , gather some inputs , maybe we can figure out a way through this . I used to say it was funny too During COVID everybody was always looking up for answers .

You know they're looking to the , to the base commander , and the base commander is looking to the numbered air force commander all the way up to the president Right .

The base commander is looking to the numbered Air Force commander all the way up to the president Right , and I kind of noticed this trend and one day I just said you know , we got to stop looking up because there's nobody alive during the last pandemic that's in our chain of command right now and kind of once I threw that on the table .

Then people started being a little bit more open about maybe I don't have all the answers , maybe we need to get a team together from all shapes and sizes to help us figure this out . Diversity is an asset . Effective communication we kind of walked through that , which is some of the things I've been talking on here .

But then I think , being very adaptable , because of the behaviors that we all bring into work each and every day , your mood's going to change about every 90 seconds , right . So how many times or how many emotions are you going to have in a given day ? Thousands .

If you're not an adaptable leader being able to adapt to the different behaviors going on , you're kind of going to get stuck in certain situations or you may not be in a position to pick up on some key things within communication , such as nonverbals , that actually might be giving you more of the message than what I'm actually saying .

Ucla ran a study and they said we pick up about 70% of our conversation just through the nonverbals . The rest of it's the way it was said and what's said .

That's what we remember , but we remember the nonverbals and all this information that a person gives off when they're communicating with us , which is why it's important , I think , to at least under a COVID environment , we need to still find a way to see each other's faces , whether that be through a Zoom call or we just we need to find a way to to be able

to get together in some small groups and still keep our distance and talk with one another . It's not a time to just go to our corners and never see people because it just ain't going to work .

That allows for people to really want to follow you , to follow your vision and be willing to go to the ends of the earth for you , and there's a lot to be said for that .

They didn't even hesitate to say something like you know , I don't have an answer on that , but I may have somebody that we can bring into our next meeting that might have some answers , and more often than not it was somebody very low on the food chain , right .

And so now you're bringing in the art of reverse mentoring and having that young officer , enlisted or civilian , who probably is the expert , bring them into the room , bring them into the meeting . Don't bury them in the corner of the organization , but pull them out . And you're doing two things .

Not only are you showcasing the talent within your organization , you're building confidence in that person , now that they actually have value and now they feel it , and something changes inside , something positive changes inside of them when you do that .

But I tell you , I'm a lot like Dick Vermeule , who used to be the coach for the Rams , and if you've ever seen Dick Vermeule talk after a game , especially a very tough game or playoff game , he would get very emotional . I'm very much like him .

It doesn't take a whole lot for me to show my emotions , to shed a tear and I used to , I think to a degree . It still potentially bugs me a bit because I want to make sure that I'm still kind of staying locked in , but my wife reminds me like in , but you know , my wife reminds me like that's okay , you're human , right ?

It's what sets us apart from the animal kingdom . You know not that animals can't show emotions , but they don't have the range we do and even if good things happen , it's still okay to get emotional about it . And gosh , I think there's this persona in the military .

I don't think Hollywood's doing us any good justice on this that everybody's got to be a tough guy or tough girl to operate in the military , or you can't have emotions . You got to check them at the door , right . It couldn't be further from the truth .

I think , when you're being put in harm's way or you're the leader asking and putting people in harm's way , I want leaders who actually have some emotions because I want them to understand how serious this is . When I would sign deployment orders , I'm not just thinking about oh yeah , I got to .

You know , they need to be there next Thursday and they're going to be gone for nine months . Sign ready , ready to break . I'm thinking about their mom and dad , kids , spouses . You know , how are we going to take care of the family Boy ? That's emotional and it's OK .

So I , like I said , I think I think there's just this stigma out there that men in the military can't be emotional .

But I think , for every person that says that , I'll show you 10 and I'll show you 10 special forces folks who show emotion , you know , some of the toughest people on the planet absolutely show emotion and I think what allows them to be so good at their craft is that they show emotions , because if you don't bring those things to the surface , I don't think you

have good awareness of it , I think you might be suppressing some things which will actually hinder your performance overall . And so , anytime I held some emotion with me , inside of me , I would take a moment and again , it's a skill , it's something you need to practice , it's strategies that you need to work on .

I would hold those emotions and say why am I feeling this way right now ? What is it that provoked this ? Can I use this emotion as an asset , or is it to my disadvantage right now ?

Now those questions are being asked in my head very , very quickly because , again , I practice this stuff , but I can get to a point where probably not a good place to show it right now , based on , maybe , what we're talking about , but in a different environment .

Yeah , absolutely necessary , because I need to model this so that others can feel comfortable , you know , displaying their vulnerability .

, and being in touch with your emotions is key for being able to have emotional intelligence .

With all the stories , especially the tough stories that are out there , Something's going to hit , something's going to resonate , and I think some of the best anchors that we've seen in our past , or even today , they absolutely will show emotion .

It's not to drive ratings , it's because they're human , and I think , for a leader , when you're able to show that you're more than just a boss , you're human , now your people have an instant connection , and that's , to me , the basis of trust . Where that comes from , or where that could really grow and foster , is I now see you and you're like me too .

I felt bad about that too . Now we have something that we can share in common , right ?

It's a leadership story , but there were like kind of four tenants in there and I kind of took those four tenants and started incorporating those you know into my life and I kind of created my own mantra out of it . But there were things like make their day , have fun , be bold , those kinds of things .

And from that book I kind of set myself up with a mantra of being present , be bold , be innovative . And I don't think , had I not received that book and just saw that leadership can be broken down very simply into things like having fun and making people's day and being bold , I don't know if I would have been as effective as I would want to be .

And so you know that probably doesn't really answer the question as far as like particular advice , but it was more of an action . I was going to say it was an act , it was yeah , yeah , I mean call it an act of kindness because he invested in us . And you know , from that point on I had this .

I mean , I had the mantra on my mug , my squatter mug , that said be present , be bold , be innovative . And I say that every day because I'm looking for ways to be right there with people and holding them in empathy , being present .

You know , that's to me what being fully present is being bold , which means , boy , I'm going to have , I have fears in my life , but trying to just go one more step , just seeing if I can push it a little bit , I might be able to break through some of those fears and maybe see what other fears are behind that one .

And then to be innovative , I think goes back to a little bit of the cultural intelligence pieces . It's not about inventing new ways to do things , but sometimes taking existing capabilities and putting them together in a different way to see what else you can do , being adaptable for a given environment .

You know , there's so many things in life which people struggle to figure out how to maneuver through . I am more interested how did the positive deviant work their way through this ? How did they figure ? How did that person figure it out if the 50 other people didn't .

And so to me , I don't think they get there if they're not a little bit bold or innovative to look at it from a different perspective . And more often than not , it wasn't just them , it was probably a group , a team , looking from different perspectives and figured out how to rewicker things , and now they figured out a way through this mess .

I kind of use the phrases well , this is the way we've always done it . I'm like hold my beer , you know what ? You tell me that phrase . Okay , okay , the fight's on .

Because I hate that phrase and , uh , I may fail , but you know what , I'm gonna give it a try , and because I am going to show you at some point that I'm going to get through this , and I don't want the team to ever think that , well , this is the way things have always been done . Therefore , we , we should do it this way . Nope .

There's no opportunity for exploring what's possible or what doesn't even exist yet , and it's like you just hit a brick wall .

I love to hear from you all and want you to know that you can leave me a voicemail directly . If you go to my website , evokegreatnesscom , and go to the contact me tab , you'll just hit the big old orange button and record your message . I love the feedback and comments that I've been getting , so please keep them coming .

I'll leave you with the wise words of author Robin Sharma Greatness comes by doing a few small and smart things each and every day . It comes from taking little steps consistently .

It comes from making a few small chips against everything in your professional and personal life that is ordinary , so that a day eventually arrives when all that's left is the extraordinary .