Speaker 1 This episode was brought to you by Big Moose. Find out about the 1 million project at Big Moose Charity. Okay, pals. Greetings. Greetings, and welcome to another episode of Everything Endurance. It is, as always, a pleasure to be back in your. Now, you know, I've been consistently inconsistent over the years. I'm sure you've got used to it by now.
Speaker 1 No podcast for a while and then to turn up at once. And here we are again with two sort of back to back releases just to carry on being consistent all in consistently consistent. This race is another cold weather race. We're going to be talking about another experience in the Arctic now, whereas this time it was very much spine race themed and the competitors were on skis and pulling pokes through the snow.
Speaker 1 This time around, we're in beyond the ultimate territory and we're going to be talking about the Ice Ultra. So very much backpacks and snowshoes instead of skis. Also, the Ice Ultra is a five day race stages with some ways to camp out overnight. But don't let that first, second fool you into thinking this is in any way an easy race.
Speaker 1 Obviously, I'm going to out the caveat here that I particularly like talking about the ice culture on this podcast, because it is my one claim to being a multi-stage ultra runner myself, it being the only multi-day event I've ever participated in, rather than just followed around writing social media updates and taking photos with my camera. This is my one claim to ultrarunning.
Speaker 1 Ultrarunning stardom is is having finished this race. So I'm particularly happy to be weighing in on about again, on account of the fact that I get to drop that into the conversation here and there. It's itself event. It's in Swedish Lapland over five days the runners are in lightweight kit and anything they need for that race is going to be carried on their backs.
Speaker 1 So these guys are carving toothbrushes down to get rid of grams out of their kits. Such is the admin stress of now needed to survive in this environment. Now, before I start talking about the ice culture at length, before I introduce those guests, I'm going to make the most of this opportunity to congratulate Jasmin Paris on finishing the Barkley marathons.
Speaker 1 If you're unfamiliar with the Barkley marathons and you're listening to this podcast, I have no idea how you've managed that. But go back a whole bunch of episodes and you will find a lengthy interview with a lot like the founder of that event, and you will learn everything you need to know back there. Go back to about this time last year in the podcast and you will in fact find an interview with two of this year's finishers talking about their experiences in the Tennessee Hills.
Speaker 1 This time last year. But go Google it, come back armed and drop back into this podcast. Here I am congratulating Jasmine Parris on being the first female athlete to finish the Barkley marathons, which is just astonishing and just a brilliant end to her story. She's she's taken a few runs at this, developed every time, and we already knew she was an absolutely exceptional runner.
Speaker 1 I count myself so, so very privileged to have been at the finish line when she took a 12 hour buyout of the course record of the spine race back in January 2019. We always knew she was amazing and she's just shown the entire world, and the entire world seems to have stood up and paid attention, quite rightly so.
Speaker 1 Absolutely amazing. No less than she deserves. And we're not stopping there. Also, congratulations to each of our guests who I mean, how amazing his first attempt at the course. Not only has he finished at the first attempt, but he finished first on his first attempt, which is just absolutely ridiculous. Then you've got John Kelly, who already held the record for being the most featured guest on this podcast, is no doubt going to see soon that he's had another email from May and managed to get his third finish in seven attempts.
Speaker 1 There's also Jared Campbell in there who's now finished four times. Some people never learn. Presumably he's going to go back and do it again. What can you do? But absolutely incredible. J.R campbell four times now and Craig Hamilton of new zealand who also bagged a finish. Absolutely amazing. And now I'm going to also drop in here a sort of mixed commiserations and congratulations to Damian Hall.
Speaker 1 I love you, dude. That was amazing and that you have so narrowly avoided finishing that race again, just shows how incredible you are as an athlete because you got so far and you got one step closer and let it be known. I have a particularly strong cup of tea here next to me in Your honor. Now back from Tennessee and over to Swedish Lapland.
Speaker 1 Let's get into today's guests. I've got three for you today. First up, Taryn Gordon Bennett, She is speaking to me all the way from South Africa. And she was the female winner of the Ice Ultra this year. She is followed by Alex O'Shay, the winning male and winner overall, who you may know better as the running fireman on Instagram.
Speaker 1 He is an Irish athlete with some big records behind him. And we talk about them as well as his Ice Ultra experience. Then you've got singer Kinberg, who is possibly the most positive person I've ever spoken to. Please, though, this is a long episode, make sure you listen to see. I mean, I know that a lot of the people who listen to this podcast really enjoy hearing from the athletes who were maybe in the not quite as fast category, who got maximum value out of the event by spending the most possible time on the course.
Speaker 1 And it is always good to hear from Completers is a different approach to races. You are out there for a longer period of time and there is an enormous amount of value in what she has to say. If you are on the fence about taking on some big adventure in the moment, then I warn you, if you listen to see his interview, you will almost certainly press the green button or whatever it is you need to do and end up signing up for that thing.
Speaker 1 So yeah, you were warned. Be more. See, she's brilliant. Now, without further ado, I think you've once more heard enough of me. I'm going to introduce the first guest. So welcome, Tara. Good afternoon, Taryn. Taryn, how are you? Speaker 2 I'm very well, thank you. How are you? Sitting in South Africa? A gorgeous day, but I'm excellent, thank you. Either way, I.
Speaker 1 Tell you, it's not too bad a day where I am at the moment. I'm, you know, South Yorkshire, UK, bout ten degrees, not not far off average for this time of year. I imagine it's a little warmer where you are, which will have been a lot warmer than where you were when you won the ice Ultra.
Speaker 2 Absolutely. It's not cold here. About 32 degrees in South Africa, and I thought Ultra was probably better in minus so -36 degrees. So very happy where I'm at at the moment. In fact, I'm still defrosting, so I'm very happy. Speaker 1 But well, I mean, that kind of leads me into something that I do like to ask people about after these things, which was how was the recovery from it? You know, how did you bounce back quickly and get back to running, or are you just getting used to it now.
Speaker 2 Which I wish you could just don stack up to five days of running an ultramarathon every day and getting running in -20 plus degrees. Now it's taken a while. I'm still busy recovering. I've gone for a few runs. I've gone for about four or five runs since I've returned one or two yoga classes, a few swims, one, one or two bike ride the very top.
Speaker 2 But from next week I need to start getting stuck in again. But the recovery hasn't been easy. I've been eating everything that my eyes have seen and and sleep. Just been wanting to see.
Speaker 1 If it's any reassurance itself. In my experience, that's absolutely normal. People do seem to go through this period of time after what are these races where they just cannot stop eating like your body is trying to replace everything you lost across that week hurts? Yeah, I enjoy it while it lasts. You've got a really good excuse. It's as you see, whatever you like.
Speaker 1 So I've managed to get this far without saying congratulations. You having been a winner out there at the Ice Ultra, which is absolutely incredible. First female athlete, sixth overall, 12 hours, somewhere along those lines ahead of your nearest rival on the podium. Those are some very impressive numbers. Yeah, well, no, congratulations. You deserve it. Before we dig into the actual experience out there at the ice Ultra, this being the first time we've sort of talks on the podcast, I'd I'd like to know a little bit more about about Tarrant and how you came to be on that start line in the first place.
Speaker 1 So this was a big multi-day race like this, a bit of a new experience for you. And what on earth made you choose the Ice Ultra when you're used to being in 30 degree temperatures at home?
Speaker 2 So I'm actually an extended answer. So I danced my entire life. I danced for a dance company, so I've always been active. I then took on running. I ran a lot of big races, comrades, two oceans, the big races in South Africa, So 90 kilometers on tar and then 56 kilometers again on tar. And I got a little bit tired of running on tires.
Speaker 2 So then I then moved to trail running, which is amazing. I love it. And I have competed quite a few big ultras yet again in South Africa. Mécanique I was the second lady in, you know, I've done quite a few, so I never really taken it too seriously. You know, the races that I have participated in, I have come sort of in the top, you know, three, maybe six, and that, you know, just peaking over.
Speaker 2 I've got a full time job. And so very difficult to to get the training in. And I've also done almond I competed on men the African championship in that was April 2022. I'm I was I came in in the top five I was invited all I qualified for the grail of Ironman which was held in Hawaii Kona. Speaker 1 Amazing.
Speaker 2 And yeah, it was absolutely amazing. But what's even more bizarre is that it was actually my first full Ironman because when I competed the PE, the port Elizabeth Ironman in South Africa, the swimming was canceled. So when I was in my native, when I was invited to Hawaii and it was actually my fifth. Speaker 1 Who.
Speaker 2 Ironman and it was well, ten, so I was a little bit nervous. So you are competing with 5000 of the best, most, hottest athletes in the world. And yeah, I'm standing at the start line going, my gosh, this is not fair school. And man, I don't know how this is going to go. Speaker 1 wow. Anyway, I yeah.
Speaker 2 I do these I do these crazy things while I do these crazy things. And then after competing Hawaii Kona, I'm, you know, I ran with a running group here in South Africa. They're called the Squirrel Nut Zippers. And a little bit of a bizarre name, but there are some amazing athletes in the surrounding grit. And one of them came to me and said to me, look, you know, they've got a friend that are quite keen to participate in the the US challenge.
Speaker 2 I was like, What's that? And they were like, No, it got beyond the ultimate. It's a series and one of them is the the challenge in left end in Swedish lap. And I said, look you know what, give me some time to think about it. I need to investigate and I'll get back to you. It took me three months.
Speaker 2 Three months later, I phoned Nick the new and Stephen's back and I said, okay, I'm in, I'm going to do it. And he was like, Are you being serious? I said, I'm being serious. It's dirt so that the two of us had committed. And then I proceeded to really get some more of my South African running friends interested.
Speaker 2 We we went for a morning run and I ordered a bottle of champagne after the morning run, and we were drinking copious amounts of bubbly. So we ended up drinking about all five bottles of bubbly and this is 9:00 in the morning. I know. Speaker 1 And brilliant.
Speaker 2 But I ended up working in another two of my running friends. Paul Painter and André Erasmus. And they committed they right there and then entered and paid the first entry fee to the US Ultra. So and that goes there. That was the beginning of our Beyond the ultimate asshole track. That's how we all got ourselves into it.
Speaker 1 Now, I, I've had a few conversations with runners over the years where they've talked about alcohol, maybe being complicit in them making a decision to enter this race or while possibly plying a friend with a with a pint or two to do it. This this feels premeditated. You came in at 9 a.m. with four or five bottles, a bottle of Zimbabwe, and you managed to get them to sign up for the ice ultra.
Speaker 1 Well, then, I mean, I'll put in a good word with the race directors because that's some great recruitment techniques. You've shown that you should definitely be on the books. Fantastic. Speaker 2 No, look, we don't we don't do it very often. You know, obviously, it does interfere with the training, but it does help. Yeah. I'll speak to Chris King about it. That's how we can get a little bit. We can get more participants involved.
Speaker 1 Really? Yeah, I'm sure he'll be happy with that. It's so why the Ice Ultra? I mean, I guess somebody else brought you the idea, but what, what attracted you to that race specifically?
Speaker 2 That. And that's why it took me three months to make a decision. And I was quite keen to do something extraordinary, something completely unknown. And and I was interested to know how my body was going to react in those conditions. And I think it really at I wanted to test myself and see how I would how it's in something that, you know, that involves mostly three or four layers of clothes.
Speaker 2 I mean, running with 8.5 cages on your back and in the snow, -25, 30 degrees. So, you know, I am a bit of a sucker for punishment. So I was extremely interested and that's what excited me about the race. And that's why we chose the that's why we we signed it basically.
Speaker 1 Brilliant. I love that you signed up because it was out of your element, because it was something new and different and sounded difficult to do. That's yeah, that's absolutely fantastic. I'm I'm always here for that kind of attitude to these adventures. And so I'm going to shift this forward in time a little bit then and actually take us into Swedish lap one now.
Speaker 1 Yeah. Had you had you had any reason to be in that part of the world before you had you've seen seen the Arctic previously rather than what were your first impressions? What was it like when you arrived that.
Speaker 2 Though we landed in in Lulea, I think that's how you pronounce it. And my first my first comment was, wow, we put a run in this weather week. We got a run in this cold weather. I was like, and I actually I was I was instantly nervous because it was so freezing cold. It was another level, nothing I have ever experienced in my life.
Speaker 2 So arriving there, I got a million butterflies. And I thought to myself, Jeez, I hope I actually survive this. I hope I finish. That's conditions where it's like I say, it's something we never experienced, but the most beautiful, one of the most beautiful places I have ever been. See? Amazing. Absolutely amazing.
Speaker 1 I mean, I'm a little bit biased, but I'd have to agree with you. There is. Yeah, just a stunningly, stunningly beautiful place as as difficult as it is to to get around it. And I can understand that feeling. It's it just seems ridiculous. You might have seen that kind of terrain on wildlife documentaries, but you don't stick on your running shorts and head out into the hills while it's like that.
Speaker 1 And here you are all of a sudden day. How were you able to prepare? I mean, training in snowshoes or training in snow? How how practical was that back in South Africa?
Speaker 2 So, so difficult. Well, I mean, take the the freezing cold out of the equation. You know, I put my nose to this problem and participants she actually competed in the in the ice cannons the year before and to be honest, I ran in my snowshoes once she told me I only know if you 25% of the time. So I was like, you know what?
Speaker 2 I just need to focus on my fitness and it'll be fine. I ran on beaches and the beach said, ten, 15 kilometers, and I only did it on one day. And and I arrived in Swedish, Lapland and I had to wing it and I ended up running in must 30, 90% of the time. So that on its own was a complete challenge.
Speaker 2 I mean, putting them on, putting them all and also your running style changes. So you definitely have to run in snow shoes a lot more. Are you going to be participating in events like this?
Speaker 1 I hey, I mean, even just coming from the UK, I did this I did this race as a participant in 2017 and the best I could do was running up and down the beach a bit in my snowshoes and it's just not the same thing, but well done for being willing to head out there on the beach in snowshoes and brave those rocks for the sake of trying.
Speaker 1 And at least you had had some preparation in there. And it is it's drastically different. Unity. Yeah. The year I did it, I barely took my snow shoes off either. The year after, they barely got them on. Yeah, you just never know what you're going to get. Speaker 2 You have no idea.
Speaker 1 So knowing that, you know, you're going into an environment here where you've you've more commonly done sort of single day races, you've you've definitely more commonly been in much warmer environments while you're doing these races. Let's put you on the start line then. How was that first day? Because that's a steep learning curve for anybody.
Speaker 2 Well, I think to start off with the fact that we were put into teepee tents the night before and we were we were told that we needed to sleep in its hands on the snow on a little thin. Reindeer skin was not a good start of the race because it was the longest night of my life. The the the I thought the tent was going to blow away.
Speaker 2 The wind was howling. I'm sleeping in the small tent with five of my running friends and it was that cold. I cannot tell you how cold I was that night that I think I had an hour's sleep. So waking up the next morning, you know, when your eyes feel scratchy and you can feel a lack of I haven't really had much sleep.
Speaker 2 And then knowing that I've got to go and run 50 kilometers with. Let me remind you and I mean, you know, well, the first day is a thousand meter elevation gain. So not. Yeah, it was it was quite it was quite daunting. So standing at the start line with all our layers on and you trying to figure out the layering system is correct.
Speaker 2 And day one wasn't surprisingly, wasn't that cold. But but it was, it was quite it was quite scary because all I wanted to do was get the checkpoints. And I knew once I'd got to the first checkpoint, I'd start getting into the into the race. But the nerves at the start line, you'll quite panicky, constantly fidgeting because there's just so much on you.
Speaker 2 It's gloves. It's best that no goggles. It's, you know, you you're looking at everybody and you can see everyone's. Yeah, but panicky. So day one is extremely nerve wracking and told you his thoughts. And then once you starts and you get to that first checkpoint, you are into it.
Speaker 1 After the first checkpoint, that's where you do your first frozen lake crossing as well as arm. But you run out from cactus. How did you find Knox? The first time I was running on ice, there were it didn't matter how many times I told myself it was fine and the snowmobiles crossed this and everything's going to be okay. Speaker 1 It was still really nerve wracking.
Speaker 2 Yeah. Look, you know, the first ten kilometers was a bit deceiving because it was on a third day. You know, you're running at your first day and you're thinking, and they tell us to bring snowshoes, you know, And you you're running at a pretty decent pace. And then you do you cross that that river crossing, you get to your first checkpoint, and then things start turning quite a bit.
Speaker 2 So, you know, I ran with my my good friend Andre Erasmus, and we got to about $0.28 and we were actually falling through the snow. So you almost disappear now. One leg disappears into the snow and your other leg still on the ground. And you know, you're eventually like, okay, maybe it's time to put our snowshoes on. So, you know, you stop, you put your snowshoes on and then sort of off you go again.
Speaker 2 But but the pain kilometer is definitely deceiving. Gets you you think, okay, this is the rider. It's it's not there and it's not the race. That's just the start.
Speaker 1 And no, that's just curses in you. And generally, yes, things definitely get tougher from there. So, you know, getting into that first stage a little bit more, you cross that frozen lake, then there's really quite a grind of a climb and soft snow, and then you're up on exposed plateaus for a big chunk of the day before another big climb.
Speaker 1 At the end, it only gets tougher as you go along. So how how was your experience of stage one and how were you when you got to the cabins at the end of that stage?
Speaker 2 Yeah. So stage one for me was a good a good day. You know, I'm a strong mountain runner. Months and climate. The Iliad is, you know, the more difficult, the times, the better I am as a runner. And I actually really enjoyed day one. Also day when you strong, you know, you've got lots of energy. You know, you haven't really exert yourself you know, you haven't done a marathon before that dates though, but you definitely go through stages, you know, through the stages of where the weather's good, but then you'll run through pockets of freezing, freezing cold air.
Speaker 2 So your kit starts to bother you. It's on. And also day one, what I really struggled with was I was actually sweating a lot and I got to take point where I needed to actually take my base, layer my middle layer off and change it to it's dry clothes because I was sweating so much and we were actually moving quite fast.
Speaker 2 But but the actual day for me was beautiful. It was it was amazing. I left. I left the climbing. You know, we were going at a good pace. We felt strong and nutrition was good. And both Android and I've been really, really strong on day one. But then you finished and you've got your night bag lying at the finish line and you like, you know, you quite tired you the phone because because which is maybe seven or 8 hours and then call up you go you go to go over there and then you know nothing about this race is easy.
Speaker 2 You get to carry everything yourself. You got to go and find your own water. You got to cook your own food, light your own fires. You know, you go to make sure you dry your clothes for the next day. There's no coming back and putting your feet up and just relaxing and resting. You know, you you've got to you've got to work hard before you actually settle for the not.
Speaker 1 Very, very true. And I think it's good that you've drawn that out as well, because I think some people are a little surprised by that when they get there. But you are pretty much self-sufficient throughout. Like there are some of the cabins where you're in, where it's up to you and your team mates to keep that fire lit or you're going to have an extremely cold night.
Speaker 1 It's yeah, you don't quite get switch off and I've honestly seen athletes out there have their experience almost fall to pieces on them because they forgot to dry a key pair of socks an inconvenient time or just lost one of their waterproof socks somehow like you don't get to switch off from you can't outmaneuver.
Speaker 2 The you does in actual fact now that you mention the white socks day one my gaiters weren't working properly and my socks were drained. They were weights and I actually I got to take points where I needed to take my socks off and change them. And the medic looks at my toes because I couldn't feel my toes. They were numb.
Speaker 2 And he said, I don't think you're going to be leading this tent. And so you've got some color back in your toes, you know, So you think everything's okay and you're it's actually not. So I needed to wait a bit before that I was let off of the that's tend to to go off again but it's always it's Kit's on its kit all it's wet clothes you finish drains you don't finish dry it's it will everything about this race is difficult everything.
Speaker 2 There isn't a single moment that you actually feel 100% comfortable.
Speaker 1 I am well you know, I think Chris King would be happy to hear you say that That was kind of what he had in mind. I've never known a race director who isn't at least a little bit of a sadist, and I'm sorry you ended up on the wrong side of that, but well done. Well, what that says again is not just that what you did here was a great physical performance, but you had to adapt to a whole set of new roles with your kit management and everything.
Speaker 1 And you managed to do that on the fly as well, which is which is excellent. I mean, well, what do you put that down to? Because I've watched, I've watched disorganized athletes flounder in that environment. And there's there's no way of just muddling your way through it without without multiday experience to fall back on. What do you put your success down to that that.
Speaker 2 Well, it took a year. It really did. It took a year to figure out the the bearings, the stem hours, hours and hours on the nets, looking at thickness of base layers, looking at thickness of mud layers, looking at different jackets, trying to reach out to past participants. It's not an overnight exercise. And, you know, we had a BTU group with all the participants on it, and I was seeing messages from some sides two weeks before the event, and they were asking about race kits and bags.
Speaker 2 And I almost cut off my hair because I'd been planning for this for nine, ten, 11 months. You know, you can't mess around with your kits if you get your kit wrong. That's your race done then. No, there. So it's you know, we don't have access to their clothing in South Africa. So it was all online purchased from all over the world.
Speaker 2 I'm sitting with clothes that I'm never going away because I received the the letters and the pens and the suck that I just knew weren't going to be weren't going to be so fast. But bottom line is, it your kids is not right. You are you you're not going to have a good rest. In fact, you'll be lucky to finish it.
Speaker 1 Absolutely. It won't matter. It won't matter how physically fit you are if you haven't done this research beforehand. And now you go and there will be people listening to this because they're thinking of during the ice Ultra next time or or a similar cold adventure somewhere in the world. And if you take one thing from this interview, take that. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 But on a lot of your success in this race is a stuff that you did way before you turned up there and you go, Well, well done, well done for doing your homework. Speaker 2 Thanks to you.
Speaker 1 So I mean, as always, it's easy with this, with this sport and with these type of races to focus in on the difficult stuff. We all know that it's hard and it is. But what was good is you must've enjoyed being in that environment for the first time and really not just seeing the Arctic or or experience as a tourist, but being in it on for up close and personal. Speaker 1 I mean, how was I experience.
Speaker 2 Amazing when you are there you don't you realize how fortunate you are Now that I am back home, I've still got Arctic mountain landscape in my mind. And, you know, coming from South Africa, we had the boat, so you would notice Safari where you going? Into the middle of nowhere to go and spot the big fires and you think that is fine.
Speaker 2 And the snow. Swedish Lapland is the most science place I've ever been to my entire life. There isn't an insect. I never saw a bird. You know, we were lucky enough to be two rangers on the mountain range. But the silence is another label. So I would love to go back there. I mean, you know, maybe go and stay in the US hotel and take a a sled instead of run that.
Speaker 2 But it is absolutely exquisite. And if I had realized then what I know now, I think I would have appreciated it a bit more.
Speaker 1 Wow. I mean, I'm glad you got to appreciate it at least. And you really reminded me of something that I think I forget what impact that had the first time I experienced is that absolute pen drop silence. Any sound that could possibly be there is absorbed by all that snow around you. Anyway, there is. Just as soon as you start on, you're no longer hearing that crunch, crunch, crunch of your snowshoes. Speaker 1 There's just nothing.
Speaker 2 There. Now, I. Speaker 1 Will add slightly any particular favorite parts of the course. Speaker 2 And you know, day to day for me, if anyone's running and walking at Mount Carbon, we got to the top. And I actually stopped my writing partner and I said to him, so so we are actually when there was nicknames, by the way, and his nickname was but Woods and mine was Lundquist, and I'm going to leave it at that. Speaker 2 I'm walking, explained it to you.
Speaker 1 Okay, fair enough. Anyone who is listening to this, I will leave you to go off and Google and figure out the Africans. Speaker 2 But yeah, but split splits is fast and long is long. The postcards. well, I'll need everybody else to go and figure out itself. But we got and we stopped at the top of Mount Kaplan and there wasn't a single participants around. In fact, we barely two parties or anybody, and we took in this most exquisite view at the top of the mountain.
Speaker 2 And for me, that was my absolute favorite. And then again, running down the back end of man cobbler because you're on top of this massive mountain again, Day two, you've got a thousand meter elevation gain. The wind was hauling. It got to about -36 degrees. And but for not for a single moment did we were we unhappy? It was it was cold.
Speaker 2 But the beauty of that mountain range and the snow and just and running down the other side towards there, the forest for me was the best part of the race.
Speaker 1 Amazing. I guess you can add in there the satisfaction of the fact that you climbed up by yourself. You know, you might get up there and a dog sled team as a tourist maybe if you're lucky, but you you got yourself to the top of that mountain, said her. Brilliant. Okay. How I'm going to ask this because it was a big thing for me.
Speaker 1 I think the hardest part of the race when I did it was day three was those endless frozen lakes, and that felt like a conveyor belt for me or just being on a treadmill in the snow. And so first day, did you do better than I did on the Lakes because I thought I was going to lose my mind. Speaker 1 And secondly, well, what was the toughest part of the race for you, if not the third?
Speaker 2 Do you know? The funny thing is, as Kirkburton, the B2 team kept on saying to us, If you can get through the first two days, you can finish the race. And I think that messed with all of our minds because I suppose it's you, my very good friend Paul Center, that was a little bit sort of at the back of the pack and he walked quite a bit, but he had an amazing time out there.
Speaker 2 He said to me, in fact, I said, together, you've done the first two days, pull your A4 away. I my word, was I wrong? Okay, we started day three and it was just kilometers and kilometers of lakes, not a single can. And it was an experience that I've never experienced before. On top of that, we had a blizzard and a watch hitter, so we had very little visibility.
Speaker 2 He and my friend Andre that I was running with has never experienced snow to that level. He's never been on a ski holiday. He actually got quite disorientated and it was the funniest thing. I actually found myself laughing like a kid, like three or like three or four times over. He was running in front of me and he would sit in the out of nowhere, start running to the list and I would have to call him and say, Where you going?
Speaker 2 What did you do? You did instead. And he would end up in slow too. He is the two you'd need. He had let's get these goggles and he would look at me and go, I can't see. I don't know where I'm going. And I was I was in hysterics. It was absolutely hilarious. But I had a little a little clear opening on my goggle because my goggles were completely messed it up.
Speaker 2 That's another thing is you can keep your goggles clear. And I felt that he had a little clear spots in my godbole and I was running and was I was trying to sort of see where we were going and he was behind me. But I found day three extremely hot. And I really thought that day two was going to be tough.
Speaker 2 And I was surprised because day two I felt good. But at the end of day three, we were running four poles. We were walking a pole, we were running four poles, we were walking a pole. By the time we got to the end of day three of running legs, four. How many kilometers was it 40 kilometers. I thought I was going to lose my mind.
Speaker 2 I was. And we just I it's it's I tried to explain to somebody what it's like going to space. You cannot describe what it is like to run on snow on legs for 42. It is so hard.
Speaker 1 It is. And thank you for making me feel better about how tough I found that guy. Although I have to say I had a view at least you had whiteout conditions and not just must have been so much tougher psychologically. You do now don't have any points of reference to tell you how far you've gone or how much further you got to go and not really take some some digging deep to find the motivation to keep going. Speaker 2 It does. It really does.
Speaker 1 I which I guess leads me on to a question that often comes up in these things. What is your motivation in those moments? Because we we get used to it. The kind the kind of people who will just go off to the Arctic and go and do a race out there, the kind of people I bump into on these events, you lose you sort of normal frame of reference for.
Speaker 1 And most people out there who haven't done that sort of thing will think you're crazy for having done this in the first place. How it would be unimaginable that you were able to do this. So how do you do it? Where where do you go? Those really tough times?
Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a it's a good question because I've had that question a lot. But, you know, I've got I've got quite a hectic job. And so I'm managing director of a big company here in South Africa, and I don't really have the space and the time to to digest and think about stuff outside of the family and and work.
Speaker 2 And so I guess, you know, for me it I think about my childhood and you I think about, you know, stuff big things that have happened in my life and and how I felt at that point in time. But it really just takes me back to events that I haven't quite digested and that I need to think through and think over again.
Speaker 2 And I'll take that time. It sounds crazy, you know, while I'm punishing myself to to to really think through life and and debates and future and it's lovely. I love it's it's it's way I have the space to to clear my mind. It's amazing.
Speaker 1 Wow. I mean, that's fantastic. I guess when I was, you know, wondering how you get through those tough moments is it? Well, some people I think what they struggle with is the ability to take themselves out of that moment, their end, where they are just having this very difficult time and experience and emotional and physical discomfort. And it sounds like that wasn't such a is so much an issue for you. Speaker 1 Yeah, you could take your mind out of where you were a little bit.
Speaker 2 Well let's get to day four will have a definitely differences. Speaker 1 Okay well let's get today for. Speaker 2 Now so death day for the Wheels team or for me from I think from all aspects. But you know you got to have one bad day, right? One have all days that that have worked out. You know, day four I found extremely difficult 64 kilometers. You know, I'd formed a massive blister on my on my left foot from the snow, sleet and snow.
Speaker 2 The snow fears were starting to put pressure on the top of my foot. And, you know, I think I yeah, I thought I thought about a day all with, you know, my stomach wasn't feeling great because, you know, you got to remember eating dried dehydrated food every night. You know, you're not eating good nutrition and you're drinking electrolytes.
Speaker 2 And so, you know, things just your body just starts going, you know, what's going on. Yeah. Yeah. And so my my stomach wasn't feeling great. I ran the first sort of 15 pairs and I just didn't feel myself. And we got to about 20 k's. And then my running partner and I decided to actually walk fast so much because your body gets to a point.
Speaker 2 We had guys I called Run anymore and that was a 20 K's and we needed to do 64 kilometers that day. So we pretty much just parked and low, ran there the rest of the day. But I got to 40 kilometers and I ran out of nutrition I had no I had no more food left. Speaker 1 None at all.
Speaker 2 I planned badly for day four. I didn't pack enough food. I had eaten everything. So I didn't have sufficient for 64 K's. And I thought because I'm not a very big eater, when I when I run and but it got it got really cold. And then for the last 20 k's of the race it snowed heavily and the conditions were tough.
Speaker 2 And so I think I was really just eating a lot more quickly and then anticipated to keep my body warm and I thought to 40 K's and I had one set of the pitch least and I knew that was going to last me another hour and a half, maybe 2 hours from an energy point of view.
Speaker 2 And I got to about three kilometers, and I started feeling dizzy. I, I, I could feel I was becoming hypoglycemic. It was. It was getting dark. It's snowing hard. And I said to Andrea and Ray, I said, I'm running into problems. And as I do you have any food and I need to eat something. So he handed me some dried fruit, but he himself didn't have a lot of food left either.
Speaker 2 Anyway, I managed to get you 55 kilometers, and that would leave us with seven kilometers to finish. And again, I was cold because I was hypoglycemic and I made the biggest error of not putting on my puffer jacket when I was cold. And so by the time I got to the teepee tents, my body was so-called. So which side actually was trying to hide my shivering from the medics.
Speaker 2 And I put I put my I put my puffer jacket on. And Andrea had given me another little packets of dried fruit and we had a rival sights bottle in South Africa. It's dried meat. And I had a piece of that. And that, that was that. That was all the nutrition. We had nothing less. And I looked at him, he looked at me and he said to me, Taryn, we've got seven kilometers left.
Speaker 2 And I said, Andre, Yes, let's go. And off we went. And not even a K out of the Titans. I was so cold, I was trying to open up my little sachet with my hand warmers that I kept on dropping it. I couldn't put my headlamp onto my head. I kept putting it over my eyes and I wouldn't break her.
Speaker 2 He was stopping. He was taking my windbreaker. All kind of put my my headlamp on for me. And and if I think about it now, I'm. I should actually be no. That happier than Meg because I couldn't think straight. I couldn't do the simplest things on my own, which is which is quite scary. And we got to a one and a half kilometers before the finish of school, the light, and we had to cross the lake.
Speaker 2 It was eight in the evening. It was pitch black. It was about -30 degrees. It was snowing hard. And I said to Andrei, I don't know how I'm going to get there. He said to me, Turn. It's one kilometer. I said, I'm so tired. I am so cold. I don't know how I'm going to get there. And obviously, you know, you have to you got to find it somewhere.
Speaker 2 I found it somewhere. But when I got when I got to the lodge at the end of day four, I actually almost wanted to be started. Yes. It was such an incredibly hard day. It was both so so to.
Speaker 1 Again, if it's any comfort, took me nearly 45 minutes to cross out lost like I was in pieces, too. And, you know, you were almost in tears by the end of that day. I cried at the start line. It's yeah, could be worse. And I know it is. It's a grind. It's an incredibly, incredibly tough day. And it catches you just at the point where you are at your most calorie and sleep deprived and you're in there is incredibly cold temperatures.
Speaker 1 So your body's burning through fuel faster than you've experienced. So that's a really hard place to be. Speaker 2 So, you know, but you did. Hardest day of my life. Hottest day of my life. It was it was by a test that was and that makes you look back and really appreciate it's what you actually are capable of. Because if you put your mind to it, you can do it. There is a little bit more there, but but toughest day of my last steamy, hard.
Speaker 1 Well, one of the things that I was going to ask you about was, you know, what is it that you get out of these experiences? But I think you've you've just touched on it there. Maybe that you did do that. And you will always know that when your back's against the wall, when you are that exhausted and depleted, you can still drag yourself through. Speaker 1 And would you say that kind of experience is what motivates you to do these things or, you know, and if not, what is really.
Speaker 2 You know, it's the self accomplishment. It's the there's the feeling of knowing what your body can physically do, what your mind is physically, physically capable, capable of. And, and, and that feeling afterwards is just the best feeling in the world. Knowing that you've completed such a such a major hectic event. And for me that that is the best feeling in the world.
Speaker 2 And then of course do it with a bunch of friends and watching them cross the finish line and finishing together as a group. I mean, there's nothing to add. Honesty, there's nothing better. But you have to be, I think I think you have to be a little bit crazy. Yes, they are. You you don't think you're going to be quite normal to do the the spa day crazy stage, right?
Speaker 1 Well, I wouldn't dream of making those kind of accusations towering. But, you know, you've you've you've brought that up yourself. So we we've sort of talked about crossing that line together. I think we've just taken ourselves into the final day. Firstly, on paper, 15 kilometers, three parkruns. That feels like it's going to be easy when you go in into the race, doesn't it? Speaker 1 But I was actually.
Speaker 2 You know, the way I'd finished day four and I literally I walked up the stairs. I got I was so called up, my down jacket on, I got changed in my sleeping bag. I was so exhausted I couldn't even take myself to the bathroom. And I lay in my sleeping bag for 2 hours and try and defrost. And, you know, I needed to get nutrition into my body.
Speaker 2 I eventually managed to do that. And I and I later the night before day five, thinking, I don't know if, I'm going to be able to do day five the way I'm feeling right now. 15 kilometers feels like 50 meters. And that funnily enough, I woke up on day five and I felt amazing. Speaker 1 brilliant.
Speaker 2 I thought I felt great. I don't know what happened. I mean, besides the blisters on my feet from the surface, I, you know, maybe it was because in my head I knew it was only 15 kilometers and I knew it was almost over. But I think what the big sort of the big positives game changer was on day five is that the sun came out and it wasn't a gloomy day of running, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 And the sun came out and I think everyone there, the strength of the pack was amazing. There wasn't a single negative person and that that that actually competed this race this year. Everybody was extremely focused, very positive, and the vibe was amazing. And I'm saying that because it's importance, because when you've got negative people that are a little bit sort of hesitant and not sure it does actually impact everybody else.
Speaker 2 And we all stood at the start of day five in in great spirits, and there was this big debate of should we waste no shoes? Should we not waste? No, she's not. It can snow. She did put the snow. She's on the on the on our bags and you know, like it was just it was wonderful. And sure we started and you know the 15 KS fault that feel much longer I'm not going to lie that but FedEx was great the only such case I must be honest And then when we got to that red carpet and we crossed the finish line, that beer was the best year of my life.
Speaker 2 I was so happy to be holding a closed egg in my head. And yeah, and it was that was amazing. Day five was also it was a good day for us.
Speaker 1 So that moment then when you finally crossed the line, a year of research and having to learn the thicknesses of all these base layers and do all of that, figuring out all the training that goes into it, you've battled through this environment that you'd never seen before and never felt before, had that really tough fourth day. Like, how did it feel crossing that line? Speaker 1 What were those emotions?
Speaker 2 it was it was the best feeling crossing that line, a feeling of wanting to cry, wanting to laugh, not had percent sure what what to actually feel. Because, you know, also you haven't seen people and you haven't heard noise for so long as you're making your back to your mark. I feel it feels strange. I mean, I can't explain the feeling when you see people again and you hear snowmobiles and and when I smelt burgers being cooked in the top ten, I was like, it felt it felt very foreign.
Speaker 2 It felt strange. But the fixation of crossing that line is what makes the race with us. It's the best feeling. I could have cried. I didn't at first smile, but it's amazing. It's really it that makes it always.
Speaker 1 That's amazing. Amazing. Well, well done. I mean, you deserved every ounce of joy and whatever else was muddled in there that you experienced when you crossed that line. Sort of. Congratulations once again. Like what you did out there was brilliant. And having had this conversation with you and heard put it in context, I just even more impressive by that.
Speaker 1 That's an incredibly tough thing that you did out there. So, I mean, before we sign off regularly, I'll sort of ask my guests to leave us with one last nugget of wisdom, because there will be people listening to this thinking, how on earth am I going to take on this challenge myself or or some similar massive event out there that they've got ahead of them? Speaker 1 There's a sort of one bit of advice you would give to those people. What did you learn out there that would help them?
Speaker 2 Don't underestimate it. Go prepared then. Don't be overly confident, because I was extremely nervous and scared for this event and I'm happy I was because it was way more brutal that then I even imagined. So I think one word of advice for me is take it seriously, plan, take 12 months and spend time on your kits. Nutrition is your is your E discipline.
Speaker 2 If you don't have the right nutrition, you know, you are tearing everything on your back and so you try and skimp. Yeah. And there don't it's not so it's I ran out of food on day four it's not worth a carry that extra 500 grams you know, whether I paid. But most importantly go in with the right mindset because if your mind is not prepared for what you're about to enter, you are going to be horribly surprised.
Speaker 1 Well, now you got that words of caution there to leave you with. It's It is sound advice of the journey, Is the research and part of what you're doing out there. A big part is about mental resilience as much as it is physical. So yeah, yeah. Perfect sense. Well, Darren, thank you. I was I really enjoyed that interview.
Speaker 1 That was that was excellent. You've been really entertaining, enthusiastic. There's loads people can take out of that for their own adventures. So just yeah, thank you very much for May and for anyone who might be listening is greatly appreciate. Speaker 2 Thank you very much for your time. Well was great. Speaker 1 Awesome. Have a great day. Speaker 2 Thanks. You too.
Speaker 1 Good afternoon and Alex. Okay Alex thanks for taking the time to talk to me today. How are you doing? Thought out from your eye so to. Speaker 3 What kind of a weaker recovery. But yeah. good.
Speaker 1 And you know, I don't want to skip bad too far, but I always find myself doing this. I think people are fascinated, especially the people who are listening to this and maybe haven't done something as big themselves and are thinking about it. What did you feel like when you got back? What was that recovery process been like over the last week?
Speaker 3 I suppose the first thing everyone says is how much weight did you lose? And when you when you hop on the weighing scales, you're actually heavier because you've torn muscle and your body has this mechanism to protect itself and it retains fluid. So I was retaining at least four liters of fluid plus whatever weight I had lost. So, you know, for the next few days, it's got to be heavier on the scales.
Speaker 3 You have no sense of what weight it can actually last. So it's kind of a strange thought.
Speaker 1 Yeah, that's really interesting. I actually like, I don't hear people mention that very much, but yeah absolutely a fact that it right your you have beaten the hell out of your muscles and your body's got to do something about that over the next few days. So yeah. Not what you'd expect but yeah that's, that's really interesting. I haven't heard, nobody's mentioned that to me directly before and I not this is.
Speaker 3 And other owners in the group would have mentioned afterwards small and ankle small and she's like my aunt, my aunt swollen. So I was obviously containing through it kind of more evenly over the spread of my body. But some people, it pulled a lot of their ankles and feet.
Speaker 1 Yeah I that we definitely touch my I always see it come up whenever somebody in one of the Facebook groups or on online or whatever it asks you know what shoes should I wear almost always the first answer is whichever they are get a bigger size and and if you haven't been any, I don't think people quite realize how much your feet can blown over the course of one of these races, even if you are on snow.
Speaker 1 Right. It's not like it's a soft surface once you're out there. Well yeah, I'm. Anyway, thanks for that. Skipping way ahead to do after your race. And I really like to start much further back than not because A, I'm really interested in hearing about what happened out in the ice culture and how that went for you. And it's great for me to be able to talk to you because I wasn't actually there for this one.
Speaker 1 So I'm going to be learning about this as as we go along as well. But you've done some absolutely brilliant stuff before, which we were talking about a little before I started recording. So when did you sort of start down this route into the massive events that you're out there running now? And I believe this hinges around your first marathon?
Speaker 3 Yeah, So my first marathon, I ran in my fire gear. I'm a fireman. I did it for charity. And it was for two years of age. And when I was 15 or 16, I trained for a marathon in Dublin City Marathon or our capital. I applied and they basically sent back the paperwork. I was too young and I kind of stopped running for years.
Speaker 3 So it was it wasn't until I was 40 that I kind of got back into kind of the idea of saying, Right, I'm going to do a marathon. And then I suppose because it took me so long, I made it special. I took on the Guinness World Record and I ran the marathon in full fire gear. Steve took up boots, pants, jacket, helmet, and I did in three, four, two, one, ten.
Speaker 3 And people instantly said, you know, what could you do without the fire gear? Or have you tired of running for Ireland? 5124 hour? I didn't even know those things existed. So that one event started me on this journey. Speaker 1 That's absolutely brilliant. And just give us a bit of background in that. How much did that fire go away faster than light do? Do you know?
Speaker 3 I did. It's like it's kind of the first question everyone asked was like, what did it wear? The minute you start training in it, you don't care what it is, it just comes down to street. Talk happens. Yeah, like it doesn't matter. What weight you have on your body can carry the weight. It's dusty to talk to an operator and a pair of runners. Speaker 3 They become the whole event. It's all about the boots off.
Speaker 1 I can only imagine. And I slightly seethed with jealousy there in that I've run two road marathons and you beat my PB in a in your fire outfit. And with these steel toed boots which just give some sort of idea about not that I'm like a particularly fast marathon runner, but you were able to top that with all of that gear on.
Speaker 1 No wonder people were coming to you afterwards going, Do you thought of doing anything tougher than this? Like, how shall I say I'm a bit stumped? Like, you know, what was it the that that you were able to draw on that made you able to do 26 miles in those steel toed cup boots? Because that that's a huge achievement in a bit in and of itself and we haven't even got to the bigger stuff yet.
Speaker 3 Like I suppose some people saw this as kind of a bit of a theatrical event. You know, like you look in on the marathon, you see all these people doing all these fantasy things and some people would say farcical things for Guinness World Records. I took this very serious. I had 13 months in the planning where I trained.
Speaker 3 I had a physio that I was going to. I was doing it for charity. So she was helping me out an awful lot. I was doing a lot of runs where I'd run mile in shorts and t shirt runners and a minute I finished ten miles straight into the fire gear and do another ten. So you got the benefit of running on tired legs so you could damage yourself to 20 miles in the fire gear, which you got benefit by doing the second ten in F tired.
Speaker 3 So I think the physio came up with some very clever ways of training to maximize potential and limbs injury. Speaker 1 That was very shrewd. I mean that was one of the limitations I was thinking of is how on earth do you prepare yourself for that without causing an injury and you'll know what the capacity for this is. I've done the Ice Ultra in the snow shoes, gave me a couple of injuries and they weigh three undergrounds and they're not steel toed.
Speaker 1 So that makes a lot of sense. If that's you, you put a lot of prep work into this. I when you when you went into it, are you the kind of did you go into this with the sort of certainty that you were going to be able to do what you did? Is it that is an extremely hard thing that you managed to do?
Speaker 3 Yeah, but it by the time I got to the start line to that event, I was starting fairly confident that if things didn't go wrong in the sense if I didn't pick up a city injury, I was definitely capable of breaking the record and I was going out to run my best, not just shared a minute or two off.
Speaker 3 So wherever that took me. So I kind of I didn't really play it safe. I was kind of giving it up, giving it my all because it was my first marathon. I wanted to see what I wanted to do. I wanted to push myself. It wasn't just about making a record.
Speaker 1 I mean, that's excellent. And I'm I'm already hearing that the kind of thing that will have driven people around you be saying, you could run for that. There's more here. And you you did a lot more. Right. I also we were talking about before this, you were going to run the 32 counties across Ireland, so 32 marathons in 16 days and was out for charity as well. Speaker 3 Yeah, that was for the Irish Guide Dogs done it.
Speaker 1 And it ended up not quite there in 16 days, didn't it? So could you talk us through a little of that? Like what? How did you get started on that as a project, for starters? And then what actually ended up happening when you were out there.
Speaker 3 I suppose how the how that event started, what was there's a famous Irish runner, Ian Keith ultra runner who had 20 hour he's done spine is one spine several times you know tremendous athlete he was running out of Ireland and Mullan Tim Thomson and I joined up to start off I and so I ran out the first 20 or 30 miles with him and we were just having a chat, shoot the breeze and he was kind of saying, What's next for you? Speaker 1 You know.
Speaker 3 And I mentioned that there was a guy in Ireland had ran a marathon in every county of Ireland, but he did it one a day. So it was very achievable to tie in to charity. The media, the running that you're going to be in this place at this time. And I said, you know, I can't take 32 days off for I'd like to do it.
Speaker 3 And he said, Your man wasn't much of a runner. He said, Why don't you try to do it in half the time? And that was literally he was on his run from one end of Ireland to the other. I was just supporting them for a few miles and the seed was planted and I went back and had a look at the map and I was like, Is this even logistically possible to drive between every county, you know, to get the head down for a few hours and just logistically couldn't could we work it out?
Speaker 3 And I decided, yeah, that's how we go for it. Speaker 1 I love the Ian Keith is somewhere behind this as well, I guess he's someone I've interviewed a few times at the spine race. Great guy. I can I can hear his voice saying here, yeah, just do it. Now is the time. Speaker 3 And yeah.
Speaker 1 I need without getting too much into it, like what were the logistics of that? Like that's, that's got to be a difficult thing to tie together. And it's, I think it's something that if you see a big event like that in, in another sport or with a celebrity involved in it, you know, there's been a team behind the scenes, put, you know, a lot together.
Speaker 1 It's more often the case with these kind of ultra distant stuff that is just sort of one person job when it around the job or a few people juggling it around their job, what was it like? And it must have been an endurance event in and of itself, just tying all this together.
Speaker 3 Like it was basically two people. It was me and a garage reached out to the firemen in the garage. So it was kind of a good media angle and the garages audio saw that and from Perry and basically we rocked up day one. We did a real marathon down in Kerry in Dingle. We drove the afternoon to the next county and we basically ran a bit of a greenway into a park and we did loops in the park because I was afraid if I was running for me to be on a road and too many people joined me, suddenly I became a big event.
Speaker 3 I couldn't shut down because these people safety then became my problem. So I had to go to lots of parks and get permission from local councils to run in their parks and have mini events. And I didn't know whether one person would turn off or whether 20 people would turn up. And basically I had to cover all eventualities for insurance. Speaker 3 So there was lots of paperwork for every single event.
Speaker 1 I bet I've had a little bit of a window into what it takes to put together races and events and stuff like that. In one location, you were doing two marathons a day and having to get those permissions and do that planning over and over again. That must have been a lot to deal with.
Speaker 3 It was, but it's like anything once you kind of start and you're determined, things fall into place and you make it happen. On the looking at it before it's happened, it just seems a bit daunting. But once you start down the rabbit hole, you just have to keep going.
Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. I absolutely agree. And I you know, that's a sentiment I hear from a lot of people doing these kind of big endurance feats. They you you just have to start on it. And you you learn as you go along and you pick it off in bite sized chunks and you get there just like picking off a kilometer at time while you're doing these races. Speaker 1 But I that's amazing. And you ended up, for various reasons, coming in under the 16 days that you aimed for, right?
Speaker 3 Yeah I the whole thing was we wanted to because it was for charity. We needed the media to be at the finish line and we had arranged for the Lord Mayor and, but basically we were told, okay, if you do 16 days, it means kind of finish on an evening marathon. Then by the time the press have taken the photos, we have missed the next day's news coverage.
Speaker 3 They need the photos first thing in the morning to get into late evening papers. So basically we had to finish governor of a morning marathon. So to do that, we basically had to change and bid event. And the second last day we did our we did a really early morning marathon at about how far you start. We then did a real marathon that started around lunchtime and we then drove to the next county and we did a minute past midnight.
Speaker 3 So technically we went into the next day and then we were able to do the second marathon of that day was like a nine or 10:00 start in the morning or 11:00 or something so that we could get all the media photos done at the start and have the Lord Mayor meet us sometime within that event. So yeah, we had to kind of think on our feet and kind of reschedule it towards the end.
Speaker 1 And I love that. And you know, you were doing it for the charity angle, right? So you've got to do that. You're going to go for maximum impact. So you change your plans, you work with what was in front of you and and you made it happen, even though it meant having to wear I mean, you kind of got a lot of sleep between those marathons towards the end.
Speaker 3 No, no. We'll make that to midnight marathon was definitely my slowest I can remember the time of it now. It was like there was a lot of walking in that one. That was that was the most horrific one because as well, it was a nighttime marathon. So it's pitch black. We'd had to arch every other. Every other marathon was daylight. Speaker 3 So we added some more.
Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I just think that's a colossal thing that you did. And both of these were for charity, which is, which is great. And you are now sort of growing these out. You go from one marathon bone. Now we're into 32 marathons in 15 and a half days, I guess. So your your rise has been pretty vertical.
Speaker 1 Before I jump into the ice culture, is is there anything I've missed along way? Because what I've heard so far is quite a lot of sort of road marathon based stuff Where where did we make a more of a transition into ultrarunning?
Speaker 3 I've gone to Spartan Atlon, I've ran on educating 24 hour Fred and I went to I came up and did the ice marathon there, but it's very different to the Swedish Arctic, I suppose it's the similarity is there's a bit of snow on an ache and but it's it's far more in keeping with running a road marathon like it's a fast event your own experience you know an inch or two dusting on top of an a creamy you don't have snowshoes and you can you can put in a quick time.
Speaker 1 Fair enough. So what led you to the ice shelter in the first place? How did you how did you end up in Sweden? Speaker 3 I somehow came across it a few years ago and I was like, yeah, definitely something that I like to do. But at the time I was running for Ireland, either I'll be 24 or and I think when you are running for your country, you get into a bit of a bubble and you don't look at any of these events because you just can't prioritize the time for them.
Speaker 3 Like if you will be running a Europeans are worrying stats your time away from family and work. You kind of you can't fit one of these around st. AM So last year on my 49th birthday I ran for our island at 100 K and my wife had spinal surgery after that and I kind of said to the team manager and said, Look, I don't think I'll be back in an Irish fest again and I'm super grateful I've done it.
Speaker 3 Five times. I was 49 at the time. I said, I'm now 50 in a few weeks and there's plenty of younger people. I do think if put the work in, I do think I could kind of move on to the end at a team bus. That's not where I want to be. And you know, if you're going to be on the team you want to feel that you can contribute at the front of this or that you can feel that you can do.
Speaker 3 PB Is the reality is for me to do a PB and a 24 hour event, I would have to put in colossal work and jobs and for kids full time job. It's just getting harder and harder. So looking now to these events where I can get, you know, huge satisfaction doing some of these extreme events, I suppose. And I'm going to fill the void of not wearing the Irish shirt well.
Speaker 1 I hope we went some ways. Fill in that voice. I'd love to. You'd seen by cows. So it's not like it's your first time in this kind of Arctic like environment. But what were your first impressions when you go out there and saw where you were going to be racing?
Speaker 3 Like everyone, I was looking at the weather forecast, you know, daily I have I had like I had the app on the phone and, you know, I studied the local places on the app. I had all the places in Sweden, and that basically was a two weeks before we went. They they got a record low -4 to 3 points.
Speaker 3 And, and so I was hoping for a cold one. And then when we flew in over Stockholm I could see bits of green. I was quite disappointed. But Stockholm is a long way away from where we're racing. It is for the further north we got and the cold recharge and so I suppose like prior to me, if, if it was going to be mild by their standards, I was going to be a bit disappointed.
Speaker 3 But during the race we got a bit of everything the mild weather means of going to get softer snow underfoot. You're going to lift more snow. It's going to make it harder event to run, colder to means more layers. You'll get on top of that, but you'll have a faster running condition. And so it's very much a mix.
Speaker 3 You know, either you can survive the cold and run faster are the milder conditions by their standards, which are still cold. You're picking up more snow and golden shoe kind of, softer snow and slushy or snow. And as we learned, there is 100 different types of snow. And like in Ireland, in the UK, we kind of get one or two types of snow.
Speaker 3 And you know, we had a snow day and we build a storm and we send everyone falling off. And I remember I have a brother nip in in Austria and I used to always ask his kids why aren't you said in this picture, is he a snowman in the snow? When you go to snow and he's always say wrong type of snow and it's because it's not dry snow that doesn't form and you know, you'd be naive to I'll tell you, go to somewhere like this, like when he encountered snow, there was like running to flour.
Speaker 3 We encountered the snow was like sand drifting over your feet. And so we had sticky snow. We hired snow. We saw snow. It was just you know, it was amazing.
Speaker 1 I, I you bring in stuff back to me as well because it, you know, is a long time ago. I run that on myself. But that really struck me too, that it isn't like the snow that I knew from at home, that it often is this really dry, powdery stuff. You couldn't make a snowball out of a bellows and blows around, which is where you get your whiteout conditions in.
Speaker 1 A little bit of wind is a totally different experience and snowshoe is a useful but in stuff that is just like flour. If it's if it's piled up there only a limited amount of use. It's is still a tricky, tricky bit of trail to run along and you had a bit of everything. So I'm I'm going to probably skip ahead a little bit here.
Speaker 1 But how did you find the snowshoes? Because they're bit like mom either. Either people are like, yeah, they were great. I couldn't believe it, or they hate them and never want to wear them again.
Speaker 3 Yeah, like I think they were based like, so swim with the TSM hyper flex because their latest one you can get on the market. Yeah. And they're like because they're designed for racing, they're probably designed for just flash and other ones may have had an advantage on the uphill sections even though they're heavier. The buckles. I absolutely hated for something that seemed to be so cleverly engineered to be nice and minimalistic.
Speaker 3 I just thought there must be a better system than this plastic buckle that froze. And that was very, very difficult. Those are open. So when you put them on, you didn't want to take them off. And for that reason. And so there was times, I think I put them on two legs and there was possibly times where I could have come out of them for a while, which I didn't.
Speaker 3 I just ran through. And then you come into snow again and you say, Sure, maybe it was better off. I didn't take them off. So it's a very personal thing. People have to make that decision for themselves, when to get into them, when to get out of them. And yeah, like if you can get practice in them in snow, it's it's a huge advantage.
Speaker 1 I didn't know that was going to be my next question. I did. I was never able to go out on them in snow before the race either. The best the closest I got was running a running a few miles on the beach like. But sun doesn't quite stand up. But it was it was the closest thing I could get. Speaker 1 You hadn't been able to run on snow in yours either?
Speaker 3 No, I took them to the beach as well. And I ran in sand dunes. I took them to the edge and I ran up and down to sand dunes, which I felt would be a tougher test. And then I brought them down to the shoreline. And where the water was lapping in. So it was the very soft and you were sinking.
Speaker 3 And so I tried to give a combination of everything. I had my gloves on. I two layers of gloves on. I had the backpack on to simulate the way I felt. They weren't they were they were okay. And I felt I was able to get in and out of them quite quick. But, you know, this was on a beach.
Speaker 3 It was warm. My hands were in gloves, so they were warmer again. Suddenly, when you go to the Arctic and your hands are, you know, cold, you just have that feeling and that dexterity. So again, the buckles, this just plastic buckles just drove me mad.
Speaker 1 Yeah, there were a couple of times that the Sami team had to pull like boiling water on to my buckles to melt them enough for us to be able to get them undone. Otherwise, I'd I'd still be wearing them now. Always, always difficult. But yeah, it's a personal journey, isn't it? And I think it's like that with a lot of the kit.
Speaker 1 And part of what I'm sure will have a journey for you is that transition from maybe running in more road or road like environments to suddenly having this big kit list of stuff you need for the Arctic in front of you. I mean, how did you find that process? Some people love that research element of it and others others really don't.
Speaker 3 I suppose at the start, when you see the mandatory kit, I was expecting more. Okay. If there's a jacket, I was expecting this is the minimum requirement. This is kind of the maximum. I kind of thought I'd get a lot more detail and breakdown of equipment needed, but after coming back, I realized, look, it's a very personal thing.
Speaker 3 What suited me at one end of the race was certainly not going to be the product you need if you're going to be going out there and be at the back of the race. And even what I brought, I had multiple layers that I didn't use in case I went over on an ankle and suddenly I went from being up the front, generating a lot of heat to being far more stationary and having to wrap up far more.
Speaker 3 So it's very it's very much a personal journey on the case. And it's very much, as you said, you have to really search. But it's not like saying, okay, I'm going snowboarding. And you look up snowboarding and you see the kit that's available for snowboarding. There is there is no company making kit for this event. So you are borrowing from mountaineering, you're borrowing from downhill skiing, snowboarding.
Speaker 3 You think you can draw from a bit of a resource from your basically trying to pull these things together to make the best possible package for you.
Speaker 1 Yeah, and I'm glad you saw in that way is it's a it's a massive part of doing one of these events is that journey and it is it's individual to everybody as you say, the kit that works for you is not going to work for somebody who's more towards the back of the pack. And the only way you can find that out is by trying out the kit and getting out there in it as often possible.
Speaker 3 Yeah, one one thing that I'd say, like if you get a mountaineering pants or mobility ring jacket, you see a lot of them. They have these little loops, so they have like the cords tight on the zip. So I basically replicated that. I got another, I got a, a roll of like four mil pink and rope, and I basically extended every loop on my jacket.
Speaker 3 So like under my armpit there was a zip. So she got heart. You could venture just down to your hip. I was able to do all this in two pairs of gloves because I extended every loop and because they were bright pink, I could see them. I could just took my head and took my body and the loop would pair.
Speaker 3 So I don't know how I came up with it. I think one day I just saw the little loops that were on the clothing and I said, You know, if I extend these, But it definitely worked. It definitely had a huge advantage.
Speaker 1 If anyone is listening to the exercise gold, that's really, really good. That's something I've seen like a couple of the guys on the safety team at the Arctic Spine do, and it makes perfect sense, right? You now don't have to stop. Take off those two layers of gloves, potentially get your hands very cold while you're faffing about looking for these things.
Speaker 1 You are now able to function on the move. So that that is a great tip. I love that. Now that doesn't you know, that's that's great. We've got into the kit and I'm sure we could spend an hour just picking up. I'd like to hear a bit more about your experience because you did so well out there. Were you expecting to be by the front of the pack? Speaker 1 Were you expecting to come out of event with with a win?
Speaker 3 And no, like, you know, I think it would be very arrogant to say you're going over to win any race like I was going over to push myself wherever that caught me in the race that that was going to be, wherever it put me, if it put me up to front, I to be a contender, if I was in the middle, I was going to push myself to catch the girl in front of me and our female, whichever way it felt.
Speaker 3 So no, I didn't. I most certainly didn't go in. And you never know the caliber of people that are going to turn up. And I didn't really look at the names like, you know, it's a multinational people from all over the world, you're not going to know these people. And and then when you do turn up, you see people and their kit bags and they have like badges from married and disabled and different things.
Speaker 3 So you have a lot of you have a lot of quiet experience athletes, you have a few athletes are taking on something for the first time, but they've got they've come from different backgrounds and might have been rowing or different challenges, so they similar mindsets. So you certainly don't know, like when you look around the room, you certainly don't know who's in a.
Speaker 1 Now I, I remember again you sort of trigger memories I may it's is a lot to take in when you first get to an event like this and you realize there are people around you who this might be that 1011, 12 event of this type. And it's kind of intimidating to see all those media badges and everything on Kit when you get in there. Speaker 1 Does stuff like that bother you? Do you do you feel the pressure when you go into these events?
Speaker 3 I know like when I saw the MDS badges, I was trying to look around to see what other ones I could see because I knew what NBS was. So if I saw, like I remember seeing and all the Everest marathon, somebody had a badge and logo from that and I was thinking, that's cool and I'd like to do some day. Speaker 3 So I was then kind of window shopping and looking for events and though no, really, it's not pressure. These things are, these things are to be enjoyed.
Speaker 1 Well, I'm really glad you say it that way. Which brings me to the question, I suppose. Did you enjoy it?
Speaker 3 Yeah, but I was I was very fortunate because the way my event played out, I was able to race really hard, put a bit of a lead in, and then I was able to share the experience and run with someone. And so like, was it day three or four, day four and five myself at George? So like on the long day I look behind at one stage and I was only, were only a few came out and George was nearly on my shoulder.
Speaker 3 So I was like, there is absolutely no point me running 65 K grinding this out on my own when I could share the experience with someone. So I just drifted back and George sat in together. There was no there was no arrangement, there was no pact. We just had a chat, you know, if he wanted to go at any stage and race me, that wasn't the problem.
Speaker 3 If I wanted to go at any stage. And then when we got near the end, we had a little chat and I said, You know what? If you want to go ahead and take a stage win, I'm not bothered. And he said, No. He said, we've we've done 60 odd K together. He said, we've crossed the line together.
Speaker 3 And we did. We crossed the line holding hands and. It was far nicer to have dash in the race and that shared experience and to run it as a solo competitor and say, Did you finished 10 minutes ahead of him, 20 minutes ahead of him, you know. Yeah. To share the memories was was nice.
Speaker 1 that's fantastic. And I love those kind of stories that come out at these events. You see that happen quite often. And yes, they're racers. Yes, these are competitions, but as a shared experience with a pretty small group of people in the grand scheme of things as well, you can really get to know everybody and and share each other's journey along the way.
Speaker 1 I'm glad you got to experience that. Now that long stage has something of everything. My A like whatever you've experienced through the course you get some of it over the course of that day and were there any parts of the race that were particularly difficult for you? Were there were there any times where you were really having to dig in to keep going?
Speaker 3 And I suppose like day one is kind of the eye opener and like you are full of energy. You got the most calories in your body that you're going to have all week and you start full of enthusiasm. We had kind of a road start, so to really fast, great surface. So the first five or six K, possibly ten K or checkpoint actually.
Speaker 3 Yeah. So yeah, about ten caning of that is a really fast section and you kind of don't know what to expect And then you leave that and you go across the knee so you are just learning learning and then the altitude after that, the climb and me and James were in the lead and James got his snowshoes on quite quick up there.
Speaker 3 Took me forever. And that's when he pulled away. And like, it wasn't that it was mentally challenging, but I suppose that was I was just here for a sweet introduction to as and I kind of felt when he pulled away, I said, you know, he's younger than me if he's faster than me. So it's a multiday event. If he comes back into my race, we make a race of it.
Speaker 3 But I certainly wasn't going to try to chase him down. And like you said, the Snowshoe was I felt that they added a knee for your foot. So where your foot hinges on the front, I felt it was going to put undue stress like the end of that section. You've been lovely, downhill to forest kind of trails. You could get considerable speed.
Speaker 3 The snow is soft in the snow shoes, but I just felt that you're putting an awful lot of stress on that joint. So I kind of took it handy and I think I came in about 28 minutes after James that day. But what I didn't realize, he ended up picking up a foot issue, possibly running that section too fast.
Speaker 3 And and he went to Chris afterwards and asked if he changed shoes. She was out of an air bag, which I wasn't aware of. And he took an eight hour penalty because that was deemed to be outside assistance because it wasn't in his race bag. But I wasn't aware of this. People at home watching your dash, they think.
Speaker 3 Dennis they think that we're aware of everything, but they have half the picture. We have half the picture. Yeah. On all these updates and they're getting all the media reports from that side. We're running the event and like the minute you get over the finish line, stop the watch and get out of the wet gear, get food into it.
Speaker 3 There was times I didn't look at the time on the watch. I just stopped it because it wasn't very relevant. It certainly wasn't the most important thing to do. There. And then you just had to get it right.
Speaker 1 Yeah, you've got your admin checklist to get through. Now you've got to dry your kit, you've got to get a meal and maybe two meals the night where my water bottles gather my kit together, make sure I know where everything is for them on. And by the time you've done all lies, time to start setting up and go in. Speaker 1 It's like.
Speaker 3 It's like the guys at the front. We were we were playing. We were playing kind of more a dangerous game, like we were getting it to the checkpoints and the medics like you. Okay. And you be like, Yeah. And so I am. I was probably consuming less fluids, but I was used to I'm used to that. The people at the back are on their feet longer, so they need more fluid.
Speaker 3 Yeah, I was using a lot. I was also using a lot less clothing. I found that I could go out with less, you know, go to the start line each day cold and knowing that the minute I go, I can generate heat. Who trap this? And I found that, you know, by wearing a headband and having my ears covered and either hat on had off, gloves on, gloves off like I always have my base glove on, but I had three layers of gloves with me.
Speaker 3 So by having my hands warm, my head warm, I was able to have my chest cool and my legs and that cool and I was able to run at top level. If I was slower, I would have had to put on Warner's. So it's a very it's a very fine line when you make that decision of what to wear. Speaker 3 And it has to be right for you where you are in the race.
Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. Again, like we said before, it's very individual and you you've got to respond to what's happening in front of you. It's not an environment that forgives you for having an issue and thinking, I'll let this go for the next three, four kilometers until I get to the next checkpoint. You kind need to get on top of overheating or over cooling, or if you feel like maybe you've got a layer to change, you've got to make yourself do it because you know your admin really can put you out of an event and into a very difficult situation really quickly out there, right?
Speaker 3 Molly I completely there was one time that I felt my hands would get cold on the leg section and I was I was in two layers of gloves and I was probably, was probably a bit late getting the third layer on and the third layer a -30. And like once I got into them their big mitten, which was a toll along the side, once I got into them, I wasn't even looking for where that problem goes.
Speaker 3 It was just shoved my hand in and that was it. And about 10 minutes later I had full circulation back. It wasn't a problem. That was the only that was my own issue at that one time where I probably left it a little bit late. Getting that clothes on.
Speaker 1 But there you go. That's where you'd done the work in advance and you had a third layer that you had a system in place to cope with that If it happens and it's it's that kind of thinking that gets people through this race. If all it took was being strong and fast, that there would be a lot more people competing up there for the podium.
Speaker 1 A It takes more than that. And going back to the start of this, you've got a hell of a lot of planning into running that marathon and your, you know, your fire gear. It seems like you've applied a similar level of thinking to what you've done here, and that absolutely suits this kind of race. I, I don't think.
Speaker 3 Yeah, I think mentally I was putting more time. I was thinking about this race all the time. Even when you're not running, you're not training. It's in the back of your head and talk, pop up and you're Googling different sport stores and looking at equipment and you're asking for people's advice and, you know, looking for podcasts like this, looking for the YouTube videos that you had done and that and they're basically they had put out on the channel.
Speaker 3 So, yeah, I was looking at every nugget of information and seeing how I could make it relevant to me. Speaker 1 Really. And I'm really glad to hear that. And you mentioned before, you, you actually watch my video where I went into I may only use in the top of an electric toothbrush because it's just that little bit lighter than actual toothbrush. New and even further.
Speaker 3 Yeah, because like when you take the top of the toothbrush if bands out at the bottom where it goes on to the electric toothbrush. So I cut that piece off as well where fancy so I brought it very small head of a toothbrush and then I brought these to kind of they're like flossing sticks. Which way? Absolutely. So they were my they were my dental and the sample toothpaste from the dentist, which is absolutely tiny.
Speaker 3 And you know, your hand gel I squirt today would half the bottom they didn't need us and everything like even the survival blanket there was two survival. So I had the really good one which you're not going to scrimp on waste because if something goes wrong and you have to get into this, it's there for a purpose but we also had to bring the really cheap one, which is like a foil blanket.
Speaker 3 Based on that you can just buy cheap and cheerful. But I took it out of its pocket and the packet comes with a straw cord and whistle and big toggle. I just put it into a freezer bag and I saved like another 15 grams or something and all the food, your expedition, food, your dry and you can save possibly maybe 20 grams per packet, but not alone.
Speaker 3 Are you saving weight? It packs far easier into your bag when you put it into a freezer. Bye. Because it'll take the shape of your bag. Whereas these foil containers are lot. They're designed for the food to last for five, seven, eight years. Shelf life. You don't need a dash. You can repack it before you go and get it into your bag.
Speaker 3 And it just gives you way more room. And I discovered as well that you can you can pour a boiling water into a good quality freezer bag. So touchable. I wasn't bringing a bottle and my, my spork I ordered one and it came and it was metal and I was like I couldn't be doing with a plastic one.
Speaker 3 So we replaced that and cost 11 gram one or something. My ski goggles. I literally cut the band office the day before I left and and I replaced it with an elastic shoelace like the trackers have on their shoes. And I, well, they perfectly functional and I saved another 35 grams. So yeah, like I was just short of cutting the straps off the bag.
Speaker 3 And if somebody sponsored me the bag, I would have done that. But the fact that I paid for this bag and I may use it again in some other race, in some other I may need, you know, the straps set up in a different configuration. So I didn't cut the shops off and but that's that's how brutal was the toilet roll.
Speaker 3 I basically plotted it, you know, over and back and basically put it into a freezer bag. So I wasn't bringing abroad three quarters of the roll. I didn't ring the insert like if I could save a ground, there's so many places you're going to lose weight in the sense there's something you're going to put in the bag. And that said waste.
Speaker 3 You can't you can't make that thing lighter. Like if you bring a phone, if you bring a battery pack for your phone, you know, there things that you can pick later. So every other item that goes in the bag, we had to bring the ten storm proof matches and we can keep the fire going. Now they came in a lovely plastic container and when I looked at it, I think there was 20 in there.
Speaker 3 So the ten matches got taken out and I brought a striker off a box matches and I put that in a freezer bag, you know, a tiny little Ziploc bag. And again, so like I packed my bag, I unpacked my bag, and then I weighed every item and I looked and I said, Can I make it lighter? And then it was a case of, you know, there was one time I brought tape from my my feet and I took it out and I goes, you know what?
Speaker 3 I'm going to put in a half room shape. And then I took out the half room that put back into the room and I said, If I need this, it's best to have a full load. So there's things you can call weight on and it's things you shouldn't cut weight on and you had to make that decision.
Speaker 1 That's brilliant. I love your approach to this. And honestly, I there will be people who are listening to this for the same reasons. You listen to our podcast and watch the YouTube videos beforehand and you've just given them so much try. They're that is exactly, exactly the kind of attitude you've got to have while you preparing something like this.
Speaker 1 Because the more of that preparation you've done on the running, the more time you've been willing to put into the the less things you've got to worry about while you're out there on the course. And you're going to have enough to think about running in the actual Arctic for five days. So I really I'm really glad you've got the all that ice.
Speaker 1 That's absolute gold for anyone who's listening to this. And I guess on that note, you know, doing all that preparation in advance, doing the hard stuff before race week allows you to enjoy that race week a little bit more. And what what some of the what were some of your favorite experiences out there on the course? Because I have great memories of the landscape and stuff out there. Speaker 1 I'd love to hear what you saw as you went through, went through Arctic Sweden.
Speaker 3 I suppose like the first night when we were put out into the teepee and you, you know, everyone that takes on this challenge would have probably spoke to someone that had been there before or watched a video. And you go out and you're like, Put your sleeping bags down on the snow. There's the reindeer skin that's the size of a small chip.
Speaker 3 And see, like there was seven of us in the tent. And I think we all more or less there during the night thinking everyone else was getting a great night's sleep. And you're just zipped up in your sleep by trying not to be noisy and you're rolling around and try to get a bit of comfort and. The wind is blowing the tent and the banging your head and it's like and it puts you in that mindframe for what's coming.
Speaker 3 And, you know, it's yes, it's a but it's also a touch of an expedition about the event. Like, it's it's obviously not an expedition because there was a lot of care provided to us. We have our medics, we have our checkpoints. The organizer carries our sleeping bag and a night bag for us. We just take the race bag so we are supported.
Speaker 3 And what it definitely gives you the sense that, you know, if if maybe one of these expedition races, it's for you, you touch on us and you do get a sense of the cold and just making your food. And so from that point of view I just thought it's such a safe environment to give you the sense of if you want to take things further in a cold arctic race environment and the scenery, absolutely amazing.
Speaker 3 Changing every day. And for me, the mountain was probably the best day, I suppose. I went into it, I think 28 minutes down. So team started me. I did a set, I went out as an eater. I knew I had to do well. If James was still in contention, I just thought that he was going to get on top of his foot issue and Chase me down.
Speaker 3 So I worked so hard on the mountain and what like I worked so hard, but I still got to enjoy it so much. I Still got to take in the view at the top. I briefly considered taking my phone out of me bag and like when I packed my bag, I pack it with the sense nothing's coming out, so everything is accessible.
Speaker 3 My outer there from my for my legs is in the pocket on the back. I have an extra top on the back so they're in outside pockets that I can access. My gloves are on the side and my hat and stuff is in my jacket pocket. Everything's accessible, so I don't want to go into a bag, but that one time I did consider stopping opening the bag and taken a photo of the landscape.
Speaker 3 Because when you're on top of a mountain, you're above the cloud line and you can see the clouds in the distance and the scenery. And it would have been worth taking the photo if I felt that my camera would be up to it. And I just thought, you know what? This mobile phone is not going to this justice.
Speaker 3 I just going to wait. Not seeing the official photos afterwards because they're going to take some good photos. So I don't think I, I don't think I ever took a photo anywhere. And I used to folk basically to touch base with home whenever we had a signal. Some days you do, some days you don't. And And that was pretty much it was an interview once. Speaker 3 Yeah. The mountain for me was was the big one. Speaker 1 Yeah. Special. It really, really is.
Speaker 3 And that's where we got the National Geographic photo disappeared and I was. Yeah, of. Speaker 1 Course I'd seen that. I didn't know where it was. That's amazing.
Speaker 3 Yeah. Like, I don't tend to, I don't tend to frame many races or, you know, like some people put their numbers in a frame and medal and that a man is going to draw and you just kind of move on. But no, I'll get that. I think the medal now, the number and that picture will go on frame because, you know, where can you repeat that day?
Speaker 3 I take my in my balls froze and and I remember as it was freezing, I cut Sarah back in tight bottle every time you you suck fluid out it sucks back in air. So what I do is I squeeze it, I'm drinking, I keep the squeeze and I take a few breaths and then I trade blow hot air back in.
Speaker 3 Now, I don't I don't know if that's going to be effective or not, but I felt certainly cannot hurt. So maybe that delayed the freezing of the bottle. And I also think as well, when you're at the checkpoint, if you only fill your bottle three quarters, you then have a moving fluid in your bottle. So if what if you fill it full and the water has no place to move, it's more stationary and it can freeze.
Speaker 3 A moving fluid takes longer to freeze. You don't see a you know, a moving river doesn't freeze the same as opposed to a puddle. We freeze a lot quicker. And so it was applying that logic had to never my balance totally. And again it's it's just something I think made sense at the time whether it actually did or not.
Speaker 3 The some people will say adding electrolyte into your bottle. Some people use hand warmers. I actually made a neoprene sleeved from a wetsuit and put it around the bottle, but I found that it was just too often to get into my my pocket on the best on the running pouch I should have. If I wanted to go down that route. Speaker 3 I should have tailored the pocket. I should have had it taken off and resized so that that was something that would have been worth doing and that I didn't do.
Speaker 1 But it's like there's some great tips in this episode. I yeah, I'm going to be push in this interview in front Anybody who's looking for tips on on how to prepare for the ice Ultra is you you've been incredibly thorough there and learn more from the experience you could take into other challenges That's that's just exceptional. Also, I usually wrap up one of these interviews by asking, you know, what tips would you give to somebody coming in next year?
Speaker 1 I feel like you've you've you've already given a dozen out there, which is absolutely excellent. So I guess I'm going to go with a different tack here, which is, you know, you've done this, you've You've conquered the ice culture out there in the Arctic. What's next? What what comes next for you?
Speaker 3 I don't know. Like for me, it's a case of for and a full time job. So, you know, when I hear people that I've done, you know, every one of these events in a calendar year, I think wouldn't that be amazing? But, you know, I'd have to be a sponsored athlete to go down that road. So for me, it's like one, maybe two big events a year if I'm really lucky.
Speaker 3 And My name is in the hat to go back to Sparta outline. So that's the end of September or early October. So if I don't get pulled out for that, I'd be looking for something around that time frame. And if you have anything in mind, I, I'd love to go to Mount Everest and do the ultra. So like they have the marathon and they have the option to go from base camp down and everyone thinks it sounds like a very easy race because you're running downhill.
Speaker 3 And apparently it's not all downhill and it's not altitude. So there's an awful lot more to it than meets the eye. But yeah, be a great challenge like what used to be to you. I'd like to maybe possibly do the jungle and the safari. And this is the safari I left. Speaker 1 For Rangers Ultra. But yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 3 Yana Yeah, that basically sounds appealing, but I might have to book six tickets to go to that one. The kids and wait for people community that I stay nearby. And so yeah, that's, you know the world's the world's amazing place. You, you meet people like wait a few South Africans over this year and they were saying, you know, you have to push the comrades marathon on your bucket list.
Speaker 3 It was a race I was aware of, but I never kind of gave it too much thought. So they keep me People at these events, they start telling you other events they are to explain is another possibility. Whether you know in the next few years. I definitely might have to learn a bit more navigation. I think there's a bit more navigation involved in that one. Speaker 1 Yeah, certainly.
Speaker 3 And then again, maybe that's just a GPS unit that you can work with. And so yeah, I really don't know what's next. And I suppose when you come home from something like this, you, you come down off of the big Hi everyone, everyone on the group was like putting up pictures of computer screens that were back at work and it was like we went from an environment where they challenged themselves.
Speaker 3 They pushed themselves so hard they exceeded their wildest expectations to now coming back. And it's like pre-race slow and they need to find another fix, I think. And so, yeah, they're definitely be more adventurous and I'll kick back in a minute as long as I can.
Speaker 1 Amazing. Well, I mean, if you keep doing amazing things and I look forward to talking to you on the podcast again, and I really do love the way you've approached these things. It's that that sorry, no, stop getting all the planning green and bounce and then making the most of the experience which it really sounds like you did you know you you were fast over that hill because you knew you had to be but you made the most of it You, you took the time to look out at the view you you knew to stop pushing a little on that long day and share the experience with somebody and get everything out of it.
Speaker 1 And you're afforded those opportunities. You did so much planning and preparation on the run in and that's that's just such a great place to be. Speaker 3 If I had if I had ran the lead every day and finished that event, I would have come in at the end and I'd be announced as the overall winner. And I would have looked around and I wouldn't have known any of these people because the winner of each stage, you know, the first three or four people go into a cab and a horse or whatever.
Speaker 3 Sometimes we've bigger. But like there was times I was asleep before other people came in. So it can be a very isolated race to be at the front. So I was so lucky that I had board experiences that I was at the front and I got to share it with other people and yeah, definitely. And just even hanging around the finish line for a while and seeing other people coming in and share and our experience, you see the emotion.
Speaker 3 And as I said to some other people, you know, my long day, I think I might have been, you know, something like 10 hours on my feet and there was other people and they were closer to 20. So, well, I'm just worn as part of this story, and I was fortunate to be at the front, but the people at the back, they equally have an amazing story.
Speaker 3 And, you know, I think you should go on and maybe feature someone on the back end because their story and their cash and how they would have overcome foot issues will resonate with a lot of people will be taking this on next year as well. It's you know you won't just get all like I may have imparted some information to people, but it's may not be as relevant to them if they're going to go out and be in the middle of the pack or the back of the pack, as someone else can tell them about the kit that they chose.
Speaker 1 Absolutely. You're the first interview I'm doing for this podcast, but you are a you're one of at least three guests we've got planned at the moment. I'm absolutely determined. I'm going to tell the other end of that story as well. You're you're right. You can only tell us your part of the story. And these events are just too for one person to be able to see it all.
Speaker 1 But you look at it, we've we've hit the hour. Mark and I had been loosely aiming for something a bit quicker than that. There was just so much good stuff to go there. So thank you for today. I really enjoyed chatting to you, Alex. And I think anyone listening today will have learned a hell of a lot out of it. Speaker 1 So congratulations once again and and thank you very much for taking the time today. It's appreciated. Good morning, Nancy. How are you?
Speaker 4 Good, thank you. It's good being here in Sweden. Still enjoying the snow up in the north. Speaker 1 Yeah, Apparently you enjoyed it so much out there. You stayed on for a holiday. Are you having fun out there getting some skiing and. Speaker 4 I was great. So I think taking the ski lift up, it was a challenge. I was, you know, my legs were burning because it was the day after the race.
Speaker 1 While I mean, I know people sometimes go for, you know, recovery runs the day after a marathon, but a full day of recovery skiing sounds pretty arduous after five days of ice. Ultra, how are you doing with recovery? Are you are you feeling better now or are you still tired or carrying any soreness? I just think people were always interested to get an idea of how long it really takes to bounce back from one of these things.
Speaker 4 I mean, I guess was really lucky because I didn't have an injury at all. I did not have any major I don't know what happened, but I was so lucky that I didn't even have a little blister, nothing like that. But of course, my leg was so swollen they were just elephant legs and feet. The day after probably took me three days of just kind of like have my legs elevated.
Speaker 4 And I was lucky enough because I'm staying with my parents and they my mom just being cooking looking on the shoulder. And so I just been lying my back, just eating, eating, you know, so hungry.
Speaker 1 Yeah, I bet. You know, I come back from doing one of these trips as a photographer, and I can I can barely stop eating for two days, like out there running for the five days. You've got some catching up to do. And I'm glad you are being treated like the hero that you are over there. That is only appropriate.
Speaker 1 That is so be it. You you just completed the Ice Ultra, so congratulations on that. And I forgot to say that already somehow. And I think the reason I really wanted to talk to you is, you know, I talk to the winners sometimes and their experiences is really valuable for people to hear and always really interesting. But it's almost a different race the further down the field you get in terms of time and you know, not to take anything away from your achievement, but just to put it in perspective, there was 24 hours between you and the winner, and that means you spent 24 extra hours on the course, the cold having to put up
Speaker 1 with those conditions. And that's an enormous challenge in and of itself. So I, I just wanted to dive into your experience a little bit, but before we get into that, I'd like to know a bit more about how you ended up on the ice. Ultra. Were you were you already seasoned ultrarunning or was this a big step for you going into something this this big?
Speaker 4 So I'm a mature runner and Uranus, I normally do probably 2 to 4 or just per year officially, of course. I mean, we training, we do a few of them unofficially. But my mindset has always been I'd be enjoying being out there. And for some reason one of your video came up this a fellow. It was like a calling, you know.
Speaker 4 I was obsessed with it. I watch it and watch it and watch. I reckon I watched it 40 times because I thought it was so beautiful. And yeah, I watch it for so many years and we wanted to cover it and I was just about to sign up and I didn't because I was a bit scared because that saw this it's actually quite extreme.
Speaker 4 And then two of my really good friends was diagnosed with cancer. Within three months. They were both gone. And I was really taken aback by the fact is, you know, life can be taken away from us so quickly and I didn't want to waste it. I just didn't want to waste. And, you know, let the fear take over, take away this race I've always wanted to do.
Speaker 4 And for some reason, my calling, I thought out there in the Arctic, I will have so much peace within me, be out there with no one around and just sure nature AT Yeah. So I signed up and after what I thought, my God. Well, by coming, no, I absolutely loved every minute. Being out there already has been taking, you know, a whole year for me to prepare.
Speaker 4 Of course, being, you know, being in Australia when we had 37 degrees. But when we tried to I tried to train in the, you know, the jackets, but also being based in Melbourne, we had a little bit snow, but the snow is very different down there. It's wet snow. So it was testing the the gear fell by new gear. Speaker 4 And I mean I've been so lucky that, you know, now Melbourne University sponsored me and let me to train in the freezer.
Speaker 1 You, you went and found a freezer to train and that's, that's dedication. I like that a lot. Speaker 4 Yeah. And I have to say we kill a few treadmills in there because they just couldn't handle the cold. Yeah. If you sign up for a destination, but it's just a whole journey, you know, you learn so much about yourself and you have to reach out. I mean, reaching out, asking for help and advice just like I need outside my comfort zone.
Speaker 4 So it has been a big journey. So I signed up for destination, but this is the journey I'm just to to get there. And I think most runners will probably feel that just to start getting to the starting line. I would just like I got a bit emotional because even the last couple of weeks heading toward the race itself, I was terrified that I'm going to fall down the stairs.
Speaker 4 I was grabbing the staircase carefully. every time someone calls, I thought, That's it. And then they come in again.
Speaker 1 It's it's it's nerve wracking, isn't it, when you've when you've invested so much emotion and energy and time in something. Yeah. I can completely understand that. And I've heard that said by a lot of runners over the years. A family member sneezes and that's them out of the house. Yeah, like you live it. You live in the shed now Are you you touched on something that I think is is particularly interesting like quite a few of our runners come from the UK when they do this event.
Speaker 1 Our organization's based in the UK and you know I've, I did the I tour as well back in 2017 a long while ago now and training over there seemed difficult because we don't get a lot of snow and it isn't anywhere near as cold as in the Arctic. But I was still getting, you know, zero degree days and a little bit of snow here in there.
Speaker 1 You having to find a way to train for this where it was 30 plus degrees over in Australia. And that's that must have been really tough. So I mean, how long were you spending in a freezer killing treadmills to try and acclimatize for this?
Speaker 4 You know, each put a treadmill in there, it will probably run for 45 minutes. And then it was stopped because of the the temperature. So we had to take the treadmill out. Then I'll have to run up and down in in the fridge. But also that that was also I, I find it quite easier because I have more room to move instead to stand on the treadmill hours after hours.
Speaker 4 And also, I guess it's just not about getting your condition like your your fitness in that room is about testing your gear as well. You know, like Iron Man. But we have I mean, that fridge in that fridge, they have ten fan glow ring, even though we said at my 20 with all that commercial fat when it fell like my point I'll throw and I remember I tried to cook my snowshoe that all my gear is on.
Speaker 4 It was so uncomfortable and I took my gloves off because I tried this and set the strap and we will less than 26. And my fingers did so much and I just said, okay, I can not expose my. And that's it. That's it is taking too long. Doing what I think it is. But also because I stop for so long putting my snowshoes on, I start to cool down really quickly.
Speaker 4 I was so sharp. Within 30 seconds I was cold and I wanted to get out of that room. I thought, This is a controlled environment and I'm feeling like this. So out there. I can't get any way. I cannot stop there. So everything have to be calculated, as you know. But I mean, A.L. that when I was out there with one stage, I thought, wait a minute, I have not practice of put my batteries in the dark.
Speaker 4 What if my batteries might hit or it goes flat and I had to put this in the dark. I haven't practiced this. So it was a few hours thinking, okay, okay. I now thinking how I'm going to do this in the dark. I thank goodness I didn't have to use that skill.
Speaker 1 But excellent that you were preparing for that. And I think that experience is really important. And if anybody is listening to this planet under in the Ice Ultra or similar Cold Race or something along those lines, you've just touched on a really good point. Like no matter what it looks like, if you've got to find a walk in freezer some way or, whatever you got to do, if you can find a way to test your care in the closest conditions you can, it's really going to help because then you learn stuff like what you learn is so hard.
Speaker 1 So just stop and change your clothes to take your gloves off. You've got to think of everything, haven't you? Well, when I take gloves off, where will I put them so I don't lose them? What is my system for doing this as quickly as possible? There's there's no decision in the ice Ultra or in any very, very cold environment that you can take quickly or take lightly. Speaker 1 Was that your experience out there, would you say?
Speaker 4 Yes Absolutely. I feel like knowing how your gear and the materials will react in that condition is quite important because I, I actually originally I had a different pale snowshoes, but after I've been in the freezer for a few, Tom, I just noticed like I stop and I took too much time just to put the strap on because strap on the, the plaster becomes so stiff.
Speaker 4 I couldn't put that in. So in the last minute I ordered Pam new shoes. Yeah. All this time I've been training with my snowshoes on the beach. I'm not taking a brand new shoes with I having training at that site. You know what? They deal with new blisters, but I can't deal with dying out there because I'm cold, so.
Speaker 1 Yeah, fair enough. I mean, if it's one, the other, it's blisters. Yeah. Get it. So, I mean. And did the snow shoes you bought work out in the end? I take it you, you said you didn't get any blisters. So that obviously turned out to be the right decision.
Speaker 4 It were much lighter and the strap were easier to put on and adjust you presets. So that saved me a lot of time. However, because you wear them all day by I think that was just sick with the first day when I had to take them off. The medic a pool of water on the strap to get them off.
Speaker 4 So you know, you practice, put them on, put them off without the with the gloves on. But by in the Met you can't because they're frozen. So is it that decision to go like okay you gotta know where my shoes they can stay on all day because there's a chance that I don't manage to take them off. So it is that decision. Speaker 4 Do I stay in them or do I not stay in them?
Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. And some people hate the snow shoes and will do anything to get out of them. But I know when I did the race I was the same as you. My buckles froze up during the first day and I decided that was it. I'm just not taking them off. Then I didn't unless they cause me terrible blisters or something like that.
Speaker 1 I'm just going to keep them all day and live with it because having to stop and try and metal, all the I saw was going to take far too long. So it was, it was one or the other. I sympathize. I know what that moment was like, but I'd like to go back just a little bit, sort of just before the race.
Speaker 1 You're sort of coming into this Arctic environment and I know what it's like That first night before the race. They put you in a tent, see, are now going to be sleeping outside in the Arctic. All right. How was the day and the night before the race? How were you feeling when you got there?
Speaker 4 gosh, it was quite intimidating and, you know, you look around, you see all this, you think, my God, that guy is definitely elite soldier. She must be elite. The you know, and I'm just an average person who just, you know, working full time. I have young children and here I am going to embark on this enormous challenge, this having the whole Australia shown me on.
Speaker 4 And so I thought I better not stuff this up. I just felt so it was quite daunting. But of course they keep going through that, the points that I well, I brought with me, which is one of the thing, was just to keep the noise out and to trust my training. You know, just trust what I've done will be enough.
Speaker 4 And also just knowing that everyone that is have the everyday life events. Now, none of us are paying running full time. I'm sure that maybe someone, but probably 90% of people there have children, have work, have every day thing. They have to deal with. So we saw equal and it is, you know, and also remember why I was there as well.
Speaker 4 It wasn't just, yeah, to be honest, I wasn't there to win the race. I want to complete the race and I want to enjoy it and joyous and, you know, And I did. I completely enjoy every single minute, like every single minute. And I, I have been really keep it really low how much I loved being out there because I know there was a lot of runners, even though I did enjoy that, there was a lot of loud moments for them.
Speaker 4 But for me, I just didn't I didn't have low moment because I was I it was part of the journey. I didn't sign up because it was going to be, you know, a luxury hotel. And still like that it was I signed up because it was going to be a challenge. It was going to be difficult. So I have my moment when I felt like this this step, this leg is never going to end.
Speaker 4 But, you know, but my first night out on top, it was it was an experience. I knew there was going to be some, you know, guy guys with an Army background. And and for some reason, I down on the into a teepee with another Australian and in there they were just guys and they all some kind of army training they just I'm in a sleeping bath Ben slept I was there you know, tried to like in my sleeping bag with all the ladies on.
Speaker 4 I was so cold, it was so windy. And you know, being the single female, I went out of teepee twice, 605 will go to the toilet a little stick. And and the second time I felt terrible because I could go in and out and then the second time I came in, one of the guys that was sleeping, Nick Smith, I looked over and he was he didn't even in the top one, he was completely naked on top.
Speaker 4 He was sweating our bone beating all in one night, backed by the part of emergency hand warmer that wasn't working. I just couldn't believe it. I probably had a half an hour's sleep on an hour sleep, and I thought these what they have done, they have really pushed us out of the sun before we even get to the starting line. Speaker 4 Okay. They okay, this is this is what I signed up for. But I haven't set.
Speaker 1 I it's a strange experience that one because we if you go back quite a few years, there used to be another night that you spend in a tent as well. But so I've quickly realized that when you're four days into the race, if you put everybody in a tent while their sleep deprived and calorie deprived and tired, not a great idea.
Speaker 1 So we scrapped that. Not doing that anymore. But Chris is always kept in having the tents there the night before the race, kind of for that reason is quite uncomfortable. You're not going to get a great night's sleep, but it's sort of anybody who might have come into the event feeling a little overconfident understands the environment a bit more.
Speaker 1 After a night in a tent at -25 or 30. It's it is it is sort of meant to be an introduction to what you're going into. Like, this is going to be hard. But I'm sorry, I don't know if the intention was for it to be quite as hard as that. We'd have heard you got more than 30 minutes sleep, but yeah.
Speaker 4 I, I still love that because that's, this is what I love about ultrarunning. It's, you know, especially to date International Women's Day, you know, I show off all the women who's doing this. There's just a small percentage of us and that but what I love about ultrarunning is it is the first game out there. Dinner is does not discriminate.
Speaker 4 You do a male with female all your and all of that. And I know this so many like people who are you know their age are much higher than me and they they kick my butt because they all experience they just I reckon older ultrarunning. You just become better with the age You just just experience, you know, your stuff, you know your body and you know, when it's time to cut the noise out is, you know, when you have to bring people along.
Speaker 4 So, you know, a lot of ultrarunning, especially that first night, I was like, Yep, we all equal now that's Maduro. I leave from that you terrible sleep as well. She would cool like me but we just like.
Speaker 1 yeah, absolutely. And yeah I do love that There's it doesn't matter who is in that race. You're all in the tent. You are all equal. You all get onto that start line, sleep deprived and wondering what hit you the night before. It's yeah, it's a great equalizer. So then we've we've got you to the start line. Now, in the story, we've had our slightly disturbed night lying on reindeer skin in the snow.
Speaker 1 And how was that first stag and I'm I'm asking thinking back to when I was out there on the first day and I you know, I think I was somewhere in the region of terrified for that entire first stage. There's so much to learn there. So how is the experience for you?
Speaker 4 I think when we first crossed the first leg and I just saw the mountains and the snow and the air, so I just I think I felt really, really grateful that I was actually doing it, just the privilege to be able to do that. And I just couldn't believe that we have all this team could just parade around us to blast air, to stay safe.
Speaker 4 And there I want to do the running over the eyes and taking some photo. And it was I just couldn't believe it. I just felt like this was a dream. It was a dream that I've had for so long. And I'm just like, I have to pinch myself now. The birth, our happiness. I was out there doing it and I for me, I felt like it. Speaker 4 It was a real a dream that came true. First day. Yeah.
Speaker 1 I was so pleased for you. I think it took me at least until the morning of the second stage to get over being sort of intimidated by it. I'm really glad to hear you just embraced it from the get go. Like you would just enjoying that course and what had you. I mean, you had spent time in Sweden earlier in your life. Speaker 1 Yeah. Yes. So had you seen that area of Sweden before?
Speaker 4 I and this is a thing this is why I signed up for this. I thought of I grew up in Stockholm. I'm walking to boarding school school of up in North Bath. I have never been that far up, and I just couldn't believe it. Especially first outside Sweden. It's like my country, you know? And it's just so stunning.
Speaker 4 It's just I just can't believe it. I have truly fell in love with Sweden again. Like, you know, I used to pray about Australia a little bit of Thailand, but kind of like forgotten about how amazing Sweden is. And and let's not forget of, you know, the Saami people. I just love that. So amazing. They just so incredible people.
Speaker 4 I just don't know how they survive out there, you know? It's just like, how did he do this the whole year? And this is almost I mean, we had a quite warm air conditioned compared with previous year, but I just don't know how they did it. And I just fell in love with Sweden. I fell in love with it.
Speaker 1 That's wonderful. It had to go back to Sweden, some where you had spent a lot of time and to see it in a whole new way and on spot. I mean, the that you are in, especially in the early parts of that race, are so remote, it's not like you're bumping into other hikers out there on the trail.
Speaker 1 It is. It's you and the other people in the ice culture. And that speeds. And not many people have seen those trails on foot in the middle of winter and taken the time to see those mountains in those conditions. And yeah. this is good. I'm sensing your excitement now. I'm I'm getting. How you felt on that first day because it really is stunning the scenery out there. Speaker 1 Yes. AM I? I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 No, no. All good. I feel like, you know, being a big part of me enjoying the race was soaking in the Sami's energy, the the calmness they have out there. It's ridiculous. You know, they just this is what it is, you know, it's just so for me, I ride really hard to soak up. The sun is calmness you know when they say there's a saying say the storm is always louder outside the inside the tent so and so a lot of the time I try to I guess again to nod Sami and obviously beat you to stop as well.
Speaker 4 What are the locals? They're just so much calm about the whole thing. So so, you know, I think what will we'll have enjoy and being so calm. It wasn't because of a Sami people.
Speaker 1 I'll make sure that they hear that because they they really are an amazing team and it's hard. You've been preparing for a year to be in that extreme environment. And even the guys working behind the scenes we might have been there a few times, but it's still out of our natural element. We don't live in those conditions. We still have to really think about it and prepare and bring our warmest best kit out there with us for the Sami's, it's just an average Tuesday but that's that's how they get from place to place anyway on the snowmobiles they they live there so easily and an environment that that seems so extreme to us and yet
Speaker 1 great volunteer guys so hi to the Sami team. Hopefully listening to this and a lot of people when they describe the first day of the ice melt to talk about how much there is to learn So you know, you you can prepare for a lot of things in training and I think you did particularly well thinking about running in snow snowshoes on the beach to try and get used to those and going into that freezer and killing running machines in there.
Speaker 1 But it still it's different actually being there and on the first day you've got a couple of significant climbs. It's going to be very cold. You're going to encounter some deep snow. It's a it's a steep learning curve. Did you find it that way as well? Are you in between bouts of just thoroughly enjoying yourself?
Speaker 4 Yeah, I think to get I mean, it's all about balancing for me out there, like my Achilles heel is in my stomach. So for me not vomiting or have issue with stomach was was a big challenge. And I just knew that I have to keep everything that to be honest, I think I did the race at the 75 80% of my capacity because I just for me I remember at one stage I was feeling really weak because.
Speaker 4 You just don't get enough calories in regardless how much you eat. Well, I just didn't feel to it. And I just remember reminding myself, say it is an infinite sea. You might not be the fastest, but you're going to be the one to stay in this race at longest. And so I just opened up my drink bottle where I put my breakfast porridge in it and just drinking it.
Speaker 4 I mean, it's just too terrible. But I thought calories, calories, it was single thing counts calories. So it is you know, you can do all different kind of trains. But also, it is very important that you you know, your body mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually as well. It's what to do about when you low on it. And this is consciously tapping into yourself.
Speaker 4 You know when I felt sick and I thought, wait a minute, I am I have been drinking pretty good on this leg and I've been eating for while. I feel a bit nauseous and then a cold myself. That was great. And where heavily because it was, it was like this blizzard. I couldn't see what I was going and and it was nighttime.
Speaker 4 It was snowing. I couldn't put my goggles on because it's dark. And so I caught myself writing glacially heavily and to just breathe in. All that air can make you feel really sick. And at that stage I have decided not to take my I have my snowshoes. But I went through deep snow. And I thought, I have to stop this up.
Speaker 4 So I was a bit nervous. So in that moment I have to actually remind myself, just stop reading. So and trust on the gear because I got a limited stay because I thought I'm in the middle of the dark in a snow blizzards across the you I'm going I'm giving it fatigue so I will have to tap on to myself that trust your training, you're not going to drop dead because you just haven't eating for whatever.
Speaker 4 Just just control your breathing. So yeah, I think just know yourself what's wrong, what you can do about it. Speaker 1 I think those are very wise words and it's it's very easy in circumstances like that to give in to those feelings and feel natural instinct to be, well, I must push harder. I've got to get out of here. I have to get to the next checkpoint. I've got to I've got to move. And you're only going to dig that hole deeper.
Speaker 1 You're now going to be hotter, sweatier, breathing deeper, more nauseous. What you did that was perfect. You you took the time to assess how your body was feeling, how your mind was feeling it, you know what is and isn't working here and what can I do? And you you found a way through it. And it's it's exactly that kind of thinking.
Speaker 1 I think that that you really need on this race and think especially when you are going to be out on the course for longer, like if you're right at the front of the pack and you're only ever running in daylight, you're probably in lightweight gear and moving very quickly, you might think to yourself, Well, I'll just push a little harder and get to the next checkpoint or get to the finish line.
Speaker 1 And you've got tons recovery time before the next day for you. Yeah, I think you have to really concentrate on that, managing yourself and managing your kit. And it sounds like you did really well. Is that how do you what do you attribute that to? Because that really is something that people to learn from repeated experience of being in these environments. Speaker 1 How, how did you how did you know to do that? How did you know to be that way and to keep yourself calm?
Speaker 4 I guess this I have been running for a lot of years and I think just just before I left Australia, I was up hiking and I ran into twos on those who were dressed really lightly and they were fast runners and they got in so themselves trouble because they got really cold by the the condition. The weather changed really quickly.
Speaker 4 She was suffering hypothermia and she fell and it just kind of remind myself that, yes, everything is fine as long you can keep moving. But the unknown when you stop that is when you need your gear. So I've always been that kind of person who always prepare for the unexpected. And so my friends always laugh with me that I always have so much with me.
Speaker 4 But it has what I have care had saved lives. And, you know, I think when we when we did Guilloché, everyone was laughing. All I've ever done because I have so much stuff that. Speaker 2 I could initially open and New adventures. Speaker 4 Store. Speaker 1 Yeah that. Speaker 2 But.
Speaker 4 It's it's also the that's the Swedish training that we always it's never ever we have a saying that is never ever bad whether it's just bad clothing bad liberation. So you know as long you have all the gift that you might need, you know, you can't prepare for everything, the situation. But at least we know that you have the gear to deal with it.
Speaker 4 And we've made growing up, as Sweden have had the advantage because we all this we have had that cold training. We just know when it's time to, you know, really use up the sweat. It's like you need to let that heat out. But then also don't forget to know that, okay? the heat is out. Now. You actually time to zip up.
Speaker 4 So there's you know, there's there's something that we have within us that let the heat out until that is, you know, that might or famous what is long gone, which means that the perfect right temperature, everything it has to be long gone. I can't push too hard. You know, you have to be warm enough. Log on warm, long, golden speed.
Speaker 4 That's how you survive. And that was my game plan. Now I just want to bring win I mean, we have loved to win, but that was that wasn't my goal. I want to enjoy it and come back home to my children safely, you know, because it does it it is costly for everyone who's involved for a person to get the ice soldier, you know, the sacrifice from family members, not just yourselves. Speaker 4 So it has to be a fair, fair game for everyone.
Speaker 1 And no doubt, no doubt juggling, you know, family and work commitments around. This you need a support network of people willing to help you along the way as you're doing this. I'm willing to sacrifice little things themselves in order to support what you're doing. And I you know, that's not to be underestimated. Also, I love that you you have this sort of ingrained training. Speaker 1 What was that word against it? The perfect temperature, the perfect speed.
Speaker 4 Log is mean, perfectly dry, perfectly. It will balance. Speaker 1 That's excellent. You hit on something earlier as well when you said that you you didn't really feel like you pushed harder then maybe 75, 80% or something like that during the race. And I meant to pick you up on that at the time because that sounds perfect. 100% is not sustainable. You afford to overexert and sweat or to get too cold.
Speaker 1 So that that sweet spot, I'm going to remember that word now I'm thinking about again, that comparison between the people at the front and the people at the bars, the people at the front end to manage that temperature by managing the intensity of their effort. They'll be wearing very light layers and they keep themselves warm by consistently pushing hard and moving very quickly and on.
Speaker 1 They're able to maintain that lager and the terrible pronunciation, I'm sure, but they're able to maintain that by just moving really fast all the time. And that's great. That works for them. Often they don't even dip in to most of their warm layers, but when you're further back, think that management is a little harder UDS now is about managing your kit really isn't it.
Speaker 1 Because those are the things that you can control when you do enter freezing cold like sections which are definitely colder than when you're in woodland, which is definitely colder than when you're marching up the hills which are really, really tough. I mean, did you find that experience? I think I went through more costume changes than Lady Gaga would in a concert like it. Speaker 1 It was all the time.
Speaker 4 I think Christy mentioned be brave and thought cold and a brave. I was suddenly warm and I took it off. I managed to get that on the second day. I applied quite perfectly, actually, to be honest. I started cold and then it's kind of like looking. It is a routine cycle and then the sun comes out, you warm up and then and then in middle of that you start to dip into more like your nutrition and water.
Speaker 4 And then on the fourth, the six legs, odds are checkpoint. That's when you start to manage your body temperature up. So the layers comes on and I make the mistake by putting in one layer too much and I got really hot them in the air. You feel nauseous because you're just so hot concrete. Probably So I managed that.
Speaker 4 But I think it's important that it's not just the color, how much calories you burn when you're cold, because you're obviously both so much more calories through shivering. So that's it. It is important to keep your body warm from the calorie point of view, but also emotionally, spiritually and mentally. I feel like I so that I that I felt safer when I was had that the right temperature even though in the snow blissett when I was warm saw that my my gear my kid, my body that was my house I was warm.
Speaker 4 It's not being sore. I can continue all night. That requires from me. So it is great and cool and not to be too hot, but just to enough not do that. You feel safe out there because there's going to be times if you quite you know that you're in danger. But you I mean, you know, because the team is out there, but it's important that you feel safe and trust your gear when you out there.
Speaker 4 I mean, you know, I know that we spend thousands of dollars on the most advanced. So trust that and getting to know your gear, I think, is important. Speaker 1 Absolutely. And I'm. But how was the long day for you? Because especially a runner here is, you know, maybe a little further down the field. The long day is long. I you know, I've known people say 20, 21, 22 hours to declare that course I was. How was that experience for you? Speaker 4 I love the long days.
Speaker 1 Yeah, I see. You're amazing. Speaker 4 It it's so you know, what I love about this race is every day it was a new adventure I like. Okay, today we got the mountain, we got the hills. And you get to test your training. That way, you. The scenery changes. And then the week that the frozen like we knew it was going to be a lot frozen like then you know is that is your mentally capacity training.
Speaker 4 That's where it comes in because you see nothing frozen like and this just like darkness. Darkness. And you said light. No, they start hit torch out of there. I was like, you know, so it is is tested you from the different way? So every day I was excited for new challenge, new you, You would never test it.
Speaker 4 It's the same way. Even your muscle, you know, the second day is climbing, climbing plan that you went down and down and then on the frozen leg with a snowshoe lifts, it felt like, you know, that I was being punch on the back on the treadmill. It's but course it's I loved it. I love the long days because because that's what we sign up for.
Speaker 4 You know, we called it the long day for for a reason. I mean I think the sign up words and yeah I think I will probably I'll go happy disappointed if I sign up. Right. And I've missed a day within what was ours because I want to make the most of it being out there. It's a I remember I have to so I actually can run those in front of me and I was just looking down.
Speaker 4 This frozen light is like beating this frozen lake. Just been just like, Yeah, keep moving. And then I looked up and they have stopped and that turn and then they were taking photos of some house along the frozen lake. And I thought, Gosh, I have forgotten to actually enjoy this, you know? So there's always pleasure in every single leg.
Speaker 4 So and even the longer days, you know, I was out there and I loved it. I love running in the dark you know, it's you see the moon, the moon one of the days where it was you so still it was so still. And an Austrian run. The reminded me, he said, you don't need your head torch. So I turn all my head towards I ran for hours through the forest.
Speaker 4 And it was this moon. It was so standing and I just like a gallop. And then on that long day it was snow blizzard and it was so scary. I couldn't see. I couldn't see anything but a all this chaos. I looked up and there was this big moon behind all this snow and it was still stunning. You know, it just for me, I just loved every single minute of being up there.
Speaker 4 I sounds like a fairytale. I could be totally naive and oblivious that, you know, I sometimes it house being the big night is, to be honest, I.
Speaker 1 I don't I don't think naive is what's coming across to me. Like I'm, I'm jealous that you managed to enjoy it as much as you did. I think I when I look back at my experience, I let parts of it intimidate me too much to look up sometimes I so I just think that's wonderful. But I think you've also got to give yourself the credit for having done enough training and research and preparation to be able to have that faith in the system that you've made in in your care and to to be in that hologram condition in your in your little house there so that you could take those moments to look up in
Speaker 1 the middle of a blizzard and appreciate the view. Now, I think that's wonderful. Sarah and I there's a there's a lesson in there, not just about, you know, I'm a geek for outdoor equipment. It's like Christmas, like walking into a toy shop. When I go into a hiking gear store, I get that. I love that aspect of it.
Speaker 1 But a lot of the preparation here is about getting yourself ready so that you can have that faith in your kit and relax just enough to be able to enjoy it. So I mean, if anyone listening to this, my advice at the end of this podcast would be be more clear, just just be more clear about this and you're going to have a great time.
Speaker 1 So yeah, I wouldn't say naive at all. I think you you did enough preparation to be able to really revel in the Rice week and that's, that's fantastic. sorry. There's no question in there. That's just that's just praise.
Speaker 4 Thank you. I also want to ask anyone who I should thinking to sign up for this kind of rice and. They might not have that environment, the perfect environment training. And I feel because I also felt like that before I came here and I had of some terrible race and signed up for a few ultra ultra races and I just went pear shape, you know, one of it I was vomiting, sick, torn I was let's not talk that out. Speaker 4 But, you know. Speaker 1 Yeah, we've been that yeah.
Speaker 4 I was beating myself up so much to balance. And then I added another race and it took me 25 hours. I wanted to be out there for for as long as I can. Yeah, I guess getting to know my body will do when I that fatigue and I felt terrible because I just kind of like go like I should have been fast and all of that.
Speaker 4 But I think those kind of training, when you feel like you fail or really, really important because you that's when you actually getting to know yourself and it's not about how your body repair itself, ideas about what emotion and comes out when you in that situation and they're all so vital to you preparation for this whole job because you have to legible to feel those emotion but also let it pass as well.
Speaker 4 Just pick yourself up and move on and just remember that you have had that experience bell shit, but you just have you've moved on.
Speaker 1 Yeah, it won't last forever. You will feel better that there is the way out is through and you will get through. And I think that's great advice as well. We we talk to people when they ask us about training the, you know, back to back sessions are input and go and do a day where you exhaust yourself and then make yourself get up the next day and do something again.
Speaker 1 Like know what it feels to start something exhausted and feel your body in that condition because you are going to feel like that as some point in the race and you're going to need find a way of pulling yourself out of it and you will be able to and you can have faith in yourself to do that if you've already been through it in training.
Speaker 1 So I what do they say? Train hard, run easy or train hard, race easy I think is is how have heard it before. Yeah amazing. Well, I'm I'm going to I'm going to skip you ahead in the race slightly now to the finish line because I'm intrigued you were you were so happy all the way through this race by the sounds of it.
Speaker 1 How happy were you at the finish line? I mean, well, what was that like actually getting there? And you've achieved this thing at the end of this year long journey. What?
Speaker 4 I guess it wasn't let me sad because I just wanted to see more. well this time it was a lot of weight was lifted away from my shoulder because it's it has been it took me a whole year to prepare for it. Obviously, being a mom. So you never really get that hands in training. And, you know, I always felt like I only get 40% of the in training.
Speaker 4 So I guess I'll tackle it with, okay, if I only going to get 40% of training and I'll just have to start earlier than everyone else Now approaching how, how can I do this? So when I came through, I was just so happy. It just, you know, that metal was huge. It's so big metal and like and it's like, no one else can have this things that is my and also, you know, there's just so many people that are behind me, you know, back home.
Speaker 4 It's just my friends, my colleagues, my sponsors, you know, the whole university that's just like, you know, I signed up with something and I have all we dream to do. And turns out I was yeah, it turns out to be a big thing. Obviously, running the Arctic in Australia is is the No. One has ever heard of it.
Speaker 4 So I was on it near this. I was, you know, on it was article written about it. It's I thought they call it, it was like Cheerios. Well I didn't live over my shoulder and I think it was like a it felt like I was straight. It was like, like, like falling and really embarrassing with all that. And I just come slowly talking to those people.
Speaker 4 You're in the race say, I'm so sorry. Do you want me to win this? Like, just I just gonna pull myself. I'm so sorry. I want to enjoy our milk every single minute of being out here. So, yeah, I'm just really happy that I can go back a medal. It just show me what it is, why you invested. Speaker 4 And thank you for believing in me so fantastic.
Speaker 1 And, you know, see, given how much you achieved from what you went out there to do, you know, you wanted to complete, you did it. You wanted to get the best out of the experience. And it sounds like you absolutely did. You wanted to enjoy it and thrive out there. And that is really coming across in what you said and you did the work to event like I, I, you know, in that sense, I really would consider you a winner here because that's, that's when after when after winning to me, I, I've really enjoyed talking to you today and sort of hearing about the race from your point of view, because this really sounds like
Speaker 1 somebody who is really embraced the whole journey and got the absolute maximum out of it. So, I mean, well done. Absolutely amazing. You deserve that big medal. Perhaps we should have found an even bigger one on the ultimate success before the next event. Speaker 4 My suitcase full of dirt and take back home. So anything else where Paris is like, you're going to leave all this off? Like, No, I'm not leaving anything behind. Modern life. yeah. Speaker 1 And that was your house.
Speaker 4 Yes, I Yeah. Thank you so much. I think what I love about the whole journey that I have opened so many people's eyes for ultrarunning and I think a lot it was a nice little song because I think I remember when I finished the race and I got so many messages, I, you know, I it was a sell like a celebrity, you know, And, and then I caused someone who looks like you to like me that, you know, I'm upset.
Speaker 4 And this person just say, you know, I'll be following this dot in five, damnit. So what's up? I'm go go to bed now. So you know. Speaker 1 For a while. Speaker 4 There I have, I felt like I have horrible country following this dot through with Aussie I opened so many eyes more did sports and also this part of the world some people they may know what ultrarunning is.
Speaker 1 Wow. Amazing. Well thank you for being you know ultrarunning is ambassador in Australia now. That's absolutely astonishing. And yeah, look, I'm I'm not going to keep you any longer that I said this would be a quick interview, but it was just so nice talking to you. And frankly, I always say they're going to be quick interviews and then I always get carried away. Speaker 1 But it has been a pleasure. So thanks for taking the time today, sir. Is is greatly it?
Speaker 4 Thank you for having me. Speaker 1 one last thing. After that, you were running for charity. Could you tell us a little about that and then I'll pop a link in the description and stuff?
Speaker 4 Yes. So I am raising money to really build a school. It's not a big mileage, but I would like to add a toilet or shower to the school in Thailand. Either know and this is incredible when you decide to sign up fundraising for something. But this is a bigger picture because. I have had so many emails and messages from people in Thailand and just say, you know, thank you for being the female role model in ultrarunning because and then it make me really think, my God, I grew up, I didn't have that role model either.
Speaker 4 So, you know, that's I guess there's a there's a role I play now which is much more important. And then I should just try to seek a school just being no role model in ultrarunning in, in, you know representing women in these sports and I saw this about women is I love about these sports ists older men who encourage women to be out there and just kick ass really but yeah so I'm putting racing to rebuild school and I will outfit to go down for Christmas and week and I are going to try to get these toilets and shower going for all these students because at the moment I think they only got toilets with
Speaker 4 200 kits all in no way out of sport. Speaker 1 Wow. Incredible. Well, if you're listening to this, the link is below, We can go and have a look and. Yeah, see, that's absolutely incredible. I mean, you're doing something great there for the charity, but as you say it's bigger than that. You've you've set you've set a bar, you've you've become a role model now and you know, I'm inspired talking to you and that says a you know, just another middle aged white dude from the UK.
Speaker 1 Like what you represent is, is fantastic. And I'm I am genuinely so happy for you. I made be dozens and dozens of see as in every race I turn up. So in the future that would that would make my day. Speaker 4 Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm right up on that and surprised that you asked me to be part of this.
Speaker 1 And I'm really, really glad I did it. It's been a pleasure. So genuinely, this time I'm going to sign off and let you get on your holiday. But thanks very much. Yeah. Speaker 4 Thank you. I.