Welcome to Everyday Intimacy, where we delve into the realms of body, soul, and connection, guiding you through the landscape of self-discovery and interpersonal relationships. I'm your host, Angela Rivero. a somatic practitioner and certified somatic sex intimacy and relationship guide. Here we explore topics ranging from sexuality and somatic healing to understanding trauma embodiment and intimacy.
My mission is to empower you in your personal evolution and foster deeper connections with others. Thank you for joining me on this journey of exploration and transformation. Let's dive deep into the essence of true intimacy, one conversation at a time. Hey there, just a quick interlude to tell you about the pleasure deck. These 48 gorgeous cards are your new toolkit designed to expand your concept of pleasure and empower you to fully embrace your feminine.
genius. With a wide range of exercises and embodiment practices, the pleasure deck invites you to explore various dimensions of pleasure, intimacy, and self-discovery. From nurturing self-love and self-trust to cultivating sisterhood bonds, each card offers a unique opportunity to tap into your body's wisdom and unlock new levels of fulfillment.
Pull one card every morning to ignite your inner light and juice you up. Each practice takes only two to 15 minutes because sister, we know life is busy. The pleasure deck is available now at amazon.com. Hey. Welcome back. It's a pleasure to have you on the show today. I really appreciate you listening in. So today my guest is Clara Wilder. And Clara is a force, bold, unapologetic, and deeply devoted to the liberation of the human spirit through the body.
As a sexual educator, sexual dominatrix, tantrica, and healer, she guides people toward the profound truth that their desires are not something to fear, but something to embrace. Through her work, she invites us to step beyond shame, to reclaim pleasure as our birthright, and to explore the depths of our own boundaries with curiosity and empowerment. Clara doesn't just teach sexuality. She illuminates a path.
to radical self-acceptance, embodied confidence, and that kind of freedom that transforms not just the bedroom, but every aspect of life. I'm happy to have you here today. So welcome. And I would love for the listeners to know where you are in the world right now. And is that where you grew up? I am actually, I'm in Canada. I'm in Ontario, very close to Toronto, about an hour from Toronto. And no, I did not grow up here. I grew up in downtown Prague, old Czechoslovakia, communist Czechoslovakia.
Oh, wow. How long have you been in Canada then? 34 years. Nice. It was supposed to be a six-month visit, and that's been 34 years. Yeah, that's interesting because when my family moved us over from Sweden to California, we were supposed to be here for a year as well. And now I think it's been it's been over 30 years as well. So similar story. All right, so let's just dive in. Tell us about your childhood. What was it like? My childhood is part of what I do right now.
I grew up in an extremely dysfunctional family where both parents were three times married and my father was three times divorced. And my parents divorced when I was about two years old. So I was growing up without father. And in my mother's family, and actually in my father's as well, there was a lot of lying. cheating, abortions, illegitimate children. And so, no, it was not a happy childhood in any way.
What made it happy was things like summer camps where I can actually go away from my family and be in the nature. And yeah, it was very difficult. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that with us. What would you say out of that was one of the most difficult experiences you had? And then how did it shape, like you said, the work that you're doing now or you as an adult? There was so much of it.
it's really hard to pinpoint one thing definitely growing up as a alcoholic father so taking on the role of the kind of parent and protector of the family yeah um what else My mother had a stillbirth when I was about 11, so that was very difficult to go through. And then all the cheating and, as I said, the illegitimate children suddenly showed up. And I saw the pain my family went through. And I had that belief that I will never have a sex in my life.
you know because sex is making everything painful sex makes relationships painful and everybody cheats everybody finally will leave me and
So why bother? Yeah. Yeah, I understand that. I mean, it's quite a narrative you got, right? And we all had those narratives growing up that really impacts our... reality for as we become adults and so I'm just curious like what was that kind of initial point that led you to the path that you are now as far as sexual education you do tantra work you do so many beautiful things and so kind of what led you to begin that journey
It was my second divorce where I lost the custody of my children. I lost my house. I lost my business. I lost everything. And I realized that, A, I had a very clean slate. I could become anybody and anything I wanted to. Because, as I said, suddenly I had no children and nothing, no responsibilities in a lot of ways. And I also wanted to not waste all that pain.
me and my children and my whole family were going through i didn't want to waste the pain i wanted to learn from it so i wanted to heal it became to the i came to the point where I had the choice either to be angry and really hateful towards men after all that happened, or I could have become an absolute victim to what happened. Or I could heal. I could heal and make something out of that pain and also become strong for when my children came back to me. Because I knew...
that I will have to be strong to support them through everything that will be going through. So I started healing and I thought, well, where do I start healing? And I stumbled upon Mama Gina. Yes. And I stumbled upon Layla Martin. And so... When I was listening to videos of both of these women, I was like, oh, I understand now. I brought what from my childhood, all those beliefs, I made them through.
They became true. It was like a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? Yeah. I also had to take responsibility for the role I played in that. and for what the beliefs as you said before what i brought into all those relationships yeah so i thought that Healing definitely starts with me taking responsibility and healing all those beliefs. So I do not bring all that pain back into my next relationship.
Yeah, it's always one of those things that like impact us, right? The generational traumas and things and how they sneak up and impact our lives. And sometimes people are really aware of it. Sometimes they have no idea that it's happening. And so if someone's listening and they're getting inspired, but they're like, well, how do I take medical responsibility? How do you...
How do you start something like that? Because you seem like you had these different paths to choose with being a victim, which we all, we actually can be a victim, right? But then there's also the responsibility part of moving forward. And so what would you say to someone listening? about taking radical responsibility because that's not always easy to do it is not it's really being aware of your patterns and i was lucky that 13 years ago i went through hoffman process
And Hoffman process is teaching us how to take responsibility for ourselves, how to heal our inner child, how to heal our relationships with our parents. And actually... how to have compassion with our parents, right? Because, hey, I love being victim. It's so easy, right? And sometimes even now I fall into the victim mode, but... We cannot blame our parents for everything that happens in our life. And we cannot blame them how we deal with life. And I remember going through Hoffman process.
We learn how to have compassion with our parents looking at their childhood and their parents, right? And that's where the generational trauma actually really reveals itself. Because I think now we are very lucky that we have internet and we talk a lot about feelings and trauma. But really our parents, like my parents, were born in 1947 and 1950. They did not have access to what we have access to now. So for them, really healing, healing.
Your relationship, healing, your sexuality, I don't think was really a thing back then. Nope. You know, so really what Hoffman process taught me was have compassion with my parents. Release them from what they've done, how they acted, how they treated me. And really say, okay, this ends with me. Right. This ends with me and I will do anything I can that my children will not go through the hell I went through. Yeah.
You know, so whether it was therapy, whether it was studying with Mama Gina, it really doesn't matter what it is. I think when it comes to healing, we have to realize what works for us, especially in the beginning. Because I think that in the beginning, it's hard to go right into the deep stuff. I find healing is kind of like layers, right? For sure. I think it's really... to figure out what's going to work for them to start on the path of healing.
Yeah, I love that. So for people listening, I don't know like what your experience is as you go through this Hoffman process and you see what, you know, the compassion for your parents. Is there a relationship with them at that point? Or do you have the compassion from a distance?
I know that's a unique story for everybody as well, but what would you say someone listening who has had harm from parents and other people in the family, how do they move forward or how do they start this part of being compassionate for themselves and for their parents or family members? Well, I live in Canada. I've been now here for 34 years. And my whole family still lives in Prague. Oh, they do. And I only past summer went to Prague.
after 19 years okay so for me i really did not have much relationship with my parents i was just healing it really last summer So for me, it was from afar. And I don't think that my parents, especially my mother, they do not have the knowledge that I have and the ability. Or they don't want to really heal at this point because they're in their 70s. Yeah. You know, they're like, okay, I'm already old and it's too late for me. But it's never too late.
But yeah, for me, it was healing from afar. I've seen people trying to heal with their parents around and actually approaching them and talking to them. And it really depends on the person, right? yeah for sure and it depends on the communication yeah i mean i think that In some aspects, it can be really healthy to kind of give yourself some space and distance. And sometimes that's not always an option or some people don't want that. So I think it is definitely a personal journey.
But I think as you start to do the work, you kind of get more clear what you can and can't do as far as interaction with family. And hopefully try to take a little bit of space for yourself as you navigate that. Yeah. And as I said, some people just, some parents don't want that. you know they think that everything's hunky-dory and they don't want to work on the relationship and that's okay too yeah because that's their decision that's them taking responsibility
or not taking responsibility. Yeah, and I definitely know that there's ways to continue the healing process that doesn't include, you know, any type of apology or you know responsibility like i said on their end um and so there's i do believe the more we do the work for ourselves that
Even if they don't ever change, it's still, we still have that opportunity to change things for ourselves. And so I just want listeners to know that like, you're not always going to get the apology or the understanding or any of the things you're seeking, but the more you can continue to connect with yourself. healing does happen yes and i also think that the more you heal the less you really need the apology yeah because you made that decision for yourself inside of yourself that
You know, shit happened and it was bad, but you decided to heal. You are moving on from it. Whether they decide to go with you or not. Yeah, I think what you're speaking to is like a choice, right?
a lot of times we don't have much of any choice growing up and that's part of the reason there's trauma too because we everything happened in a certain way and we have no choice and understanding at the time and then now we get to make a different choice and show up for ourselves and maybe our families in different ways that we
weren't able to and I think choice is a beautiful thing and part of the healing process absolutely so how do you define conscious sexuality and why is it so crucial for personal empowerment like what's your journey with that
Well, my journey is that, as I said, for me, sexuality was a very painful subject. But I became really good at it. I became really... good performative sexual person right you know i performed i performed even when i didn't want to because i have that belief that if i'm great in bed And nobody's going to leave me. Yeah. Which, of course, that doesn't work. Because it was performative. It was a performance. I did not...
I did not feel connected to the person. There was no connection. So that's what I view conscious sexuality as, as a connection with the person. It's the intimacy. that we have with the person because our society is very much about performative sex oh for sure you know about oh how many people i slept with oh how you know, how many positions I can do and what is the craziest sex I had. That's all very performative and that's all very toxic. I'm working now with people who are in their...
fifties, sixties, seventies, you know, men who, who, why their prostate removed so they cannot have erection. And I'm finding that really what is healing.
A lot of these men who is healing their relationships or continues their relationships or helps them find new relationships is the intimacy. You know, and it is not about the... penetration it's about how connected we are with the person we are with how much of our attention we get we give to the person we are with and how much attention we get from them And I find most of my clients who are, I would say 95% men, are really craving this. Yeah. And I really want the listeners to know that.
You know, our society says that men are all about sex and they always think about sex and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They really crave so much deep intimacy. That that was one of the biggest surprises that I had when I started working with men. Yeah.
Yeah, because what you're speaking to is that sex is not just a penetration or what maybe pornography shows as sex or intimacy. And so if that's the belief in our society, then of course it makes sense why we all think that men just want one thing. But what you're speaking to is that it's so much more than that. And the more we can expand our beautiful understanding of what sexuality is and the energetics of that and the connection of that, it opens up our world to so many different things.
I mean, a lot of my listeners are, you know, women or females. And I think that the more they can understand that there's so much more that they can have in relationships, it's going to give them more personal freedom as well. Absolutely. And, you know, when I had a... few clients who had their prostate removed and they came to me and they say okay I don't even know why I'm here I just know my sex life is over and I look at them and I'm like oh no
Your sex life's not over. In a lot of ways, your sex life is just beginning. Yeah. Beautiful. Right? Yeah. I love that. God, let's talk about an opportunity and a beautiful.
path of life when you get to have that expansion and different perspective and reframe of what it can be. And I could imagine those men have had a like i said almost like a second awakening of like what their truth is and how they can connect in other ways and you know you mentioned like uh connection as far as you know sex and everything like that And then do you find that you have to, of course, connection with self, right? To have connection with others. Maybe talk a little bit about that.
you know again people want to perform and they want to displease you know men tend to want to please other people right whether it's sex or not and so like how do they come back to self and self-connection that actually helps them really be in deep connection with someone else Well, I find it so, as you just said, you know, self-connection is the number one, right? It's the number one thing. And I find, especially I found with myself,
I find that a lot of people, most of us, are walking around the world from shoulders up. Exactly. Because we are constantly in our head. Right. We have constantly some monologue. And I know that I was like that very much with all my trauma. You know, I was just constantly in my head. My body was not really. accessing much pleasure. And I found it really interesting that first time I started having an amazing sense.
really amazing out of the world sex i thought i was my new partner and i thought oh my gosh this guy is amazing and only later did i realize that it was not them it was me It was me. And for me, that reason why I started having that amazing sex was because I started doing yoga. I was practicing yoga about five, four times a week.
And so I was starting to connect to my body. I was starting to connect to my breath. I was starting, you know, flexing and working with muscles that I never really knew were there. I was never aware of them. I knew him mentally, but physically I didn't know how those muscles felt and what they were for much. And suddenly my body just opened up. And I was like, oh my God. God. Yes. That's why I was like, oh.
oh my gosh, I gotta study this. I gotta bring this to people. I have to show people how this is. For sure. It really started with, as I said, me practicing yoga, me being more aware of my body. It was starting also doing breath work to be aware of my energy and just have that relationship with my body and with myself that I... had to make sure that i was safe in my body and feeling safe for me meant going there going into you know
For example, when I had pain, it was okay. There's a pain. Let me feel it. Let me not go and take a meds right away. Let me feel it. Let me feel what's underneath it, you know, and then from a physical pain. I went into emotional pain and that's how really I started being more comfortable in myself and more comfortable in my body to actually not be afraid of the feelings, whether they were physical or emotional.
And just trusting that whatever's coming up has a reason there and I can deal with it. Yeah, I think you're speaking to many beautiful things where it's like, yeah, we're disconnected from our bodies. And usually that's, like I said, out of survival, out of coping strategy, so that we're okay, and then we can start to come back slowly into our bodies. And I love that you're also speaking about like,
You had an access point because you started listening to your body and having a different relationship with your body. So it wasn't like you dove straight into necessarily like a sexuality practice, but you're starting to listen through the yoga practice. And so I want the listeners to know that like once we started doing something.
It helps us connect. I think that can be a really powerful thing. Because for me, when I started also having a lot of different shifts in my life is also when I started doing movement, it was through dance. But that's when I started being like, huh what is this like why am i feeling better like what's happening in my world that's also like my inspiration of like the continued work that i'm doing and so i think that's um
really important thing to know that yes of course there's just like a reason why we sometimes disconnect from our bodies and also there's ways to start to reconnect um and i think that's beautiful and amazing And I think in sexuality, especially if we are with a partner, you know, it's great to relax into our body and to pay attention to how parts of our body feel.
Because we don't do that in our head, right? We're just thinking, oh, how do I look? Is my belly sagging? Or are my boobs sagging? Or is this? Or am I doing this right? And that's what's really disconnected. So when it comes to conscious sexuality, it's to actually really relax and feel how does my body feel.
I know, right? Because I mean, if you spend most of your life, which most people have in their head, of course, it makes sense then that it's really hard to feel pleasure or to have connection with someone, whether it's sex or not. And I think that... That's the reason that it's so powerful because when we come back to this journey of exploration, our whole world opens up and our energy, our aliveness, our essence all starts to come back online as opposed to just being in our heads.
yeah i mean of course how do you have good sex or even understand what sex really is and what pleasure is if we are only in our heads it doesn't work it's like it's doesn't line up right you have to be able to start the process of like the journey back into the body and that's a different unique journey for everybody depending on their traumas and things like that but it's definitely possible and that's when life starts to change yeah absolutely
And I can tell you that with the clients that I have that do not have a prostate, they still do have a lot of orgasms. And very often... I teach them how to have energetic orgasms, you know, how to have foot orgasms, how to... just feel i can just blow on them sometimes and their whole body goes into this beautiful orgasm and it's like okay it's not the same as as it was when they had a prostate and everything but
it's just their whole world becomes orgasmic exactly yeah right that's why i always tell them i'm like this is this is the beginning really of your sex life because you realize that the orgasm is not just in your It's actually can be in your body. Yes. And I think that also gives hopefully hope to the listeners that like, regardless how old you are and what your sex life has been up to this point, that there is.
a whole world of opportunity and connection and pleasure that maybe hasn't been tapped into ever. And that doesn't mean it's too late that you can start now and get to experience this part that maybe you haven't. And I think that's really exciting for people. And especially if they're a little bit older, you know, and there comes some disabilities or illness. And, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, I don't have a time for sex or I cannot do it anymore.
It's just, it's not in my cards anymore. You're like, no, it actually, it is. You just have to figure out how to navigate whatever you're dealing with, right? Well, just like anything, if we haven't been taught any of these things growing up, of course, it's going to feel like it's out of range or like it's going to be too hard or too big. But that's the whole point of starting to explore the work, whether it's podcasts, books, hiring a coach.
practitioner or whatever it is like of course you don't know why would you nobody's taught you this um and now you can have that choice of learning something that you haven't had the opportunity because like you said there's so much access like we haven't had like our parents haven't had and so
There are ways to learn the tools and the frameworks and all the things to help you not be feeling like it's an impossible thing. Absolutely. So I know that many people struggle with shame and fear around their desires. So where do you think that shame originates from in your perspective? And how do people begin to kind of release that or shift that so they're not living from their shame and their fear? Well.
The shame comes usually from our upbringing. It comes from our parents. It comes from schools. It comes from society in general. I always tell people that shame is very useless emotion. Because shame is not teaching us anything. And shame is usually a reflection of somebody else's beliefs. Right? Yeah. And instead of, and what I find with shame is that it's so deep ingrained in us, in our society.
that it's quite difficult to work with it by yourself. Yeah. At least that's what I found. When I had to work with my shame, I had a coach. I think it's really important for somebody to actually point it out to you that that is not your shame. That is not your emotion. It is somebody else's beliefs that were imposed on you. And because I deal a lot with shame during my BDSM practice.
When I work with my clients, I often have clients who come here and they're like, I'm so ashamed of my feelings. And I usually say, or, you know, my desires, sorry, my feelings, my desires. And I always say, well... why is the fact that you want to be spanking why do you think you feel shame like who says it's shame all right so the more we talk about it the more we bring it into open
the lighter it becomes. For sure. Because I think that shame is one of those, you know, it's the lowest vibration, right? Shame has the lowest vibration. And the more we... we keep it in ourselves, the more we keep it in the dark, it just festers more and more and more. So I personally believe that shame has to be brought up and talk about safely. And that is one way to release it. Of course, there are a lot more ways to release it. I teach my clients exercises how to alchemize the shame.
But the problem with shame is that we become afraid that if somebody sees us, somebody sees us doing or even talking about. our shame, that they're going to judge us. Yeah. Right? They're going to judge us. We're going to be abandoned. We're going to be laughed at. And that's why shame is so dark. And it shows up not only in our bedroom, it shows up everywhere. It shows up in our life. It shows up in our energy, in the way we show up in the world.
So I love working with shame. I like working with shame and fear and guilt. Because these are really the deep emotions that I believe that... are the core emotions that have to be healed in order for us to have a great life or to live a free life.
Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's like people talk about the things that are unsaid, right? Because there's always secrets and things that happen, like I said, in childhood and families keep secrets and all this stuff. And so that becomes like a festering thing. And when we can start to, you know, like I said, talk about it and explore it, it's like gives it light. And you get to say the things unsaid.
I feel like we all hold this stuff inside of us when we have those secrets or that shame and we don't say the things, we don't get to explore it. So yeah, I definitely agree that the more we can work with these. parts that it really liberates a lot of our energy and inside of our own actual physical body and our system and energy. Yes. And, you know, I believe that.
why I love people ask me why do you work with sexuality because there is so much perception of what I do you know people label me people when I say I I'm a BDSM practitioner people get first they get the uh images from porn and everything right right yeah so people say why do you do that and why do you love it so much and i say because i believe that sexuality is where we have the
deepest wounds you know so if people say oh i want to work on myself and i want to do all this that's great but i personally believe from my own experience that you do have to go If you truly want to work on yourself and be free, you do have to work on your sexuality because there are the darkest secrets and darkest shame.
Yeah, I agree. That's the reason I do sexuality work as well, because I feel like it's part of who we are at the very core. And if we're just avoiding it and not addressing it, we're never truly fully coming back to ourselves. really healing so i agree with you 100 yeah i i think there's another another thing there is the deepest wounds are around sexuality and around money right
The things that people don't want to talk about in society or feel shame or disconnected from is for sure. Exactly. And it's really interesting because for my BDSM, I have a list of activities. bdsm activities and uh sometimes i have clients and i say so have you talked to your wife about um about your desires and they say oh no
You know, I approached her before and she shut me down and I will not try again. And I said, well, how long ago was that? They say, about 20 years ago. And I'm like, oh, so do you think that you are the same person you were 20 years ago? Of course not. I'm like, then why do you think your wife is that same person? Right? And then we unpack it a little bit. And if they're ready, I say, look, you can have this list. Take it home.
And how about you both fill it up? If you know, there's going to be prepared conversation and everything, right? And if she's open to it, I say, just fill it up and see what comes up for both of you. Maybe. she would like some of the activities. Right. And quite a few times, actually, clients came back and they go, you would not believe it.
We had such a great conversation. I didn't know she would want to try this. Why didn't I talk about this earlier? You know, and suddenly like the shame they had around what they desire was gone. Yeah. Right. It's just one little example, but I think it keeps us really shackled and it keeps us closed down. Sometimes for no good reason, often for no good reason. Yeah, I feel like some of my clients have been in long-term relationships, you know, maybe even from high school and they...
I sometimes don't want to evolve one partner because there's probably fear and other things there, but it's like, you're not going to be the same person as far as your sexuality as you were in high school. I mean, you can kind of stay there because if you don't choose to evolve or whatever, but like.
most likely you'd want to evolve or shift something so you're not in this you're not going to be in high school sex versus like you know 40 year old sex it's completely different if you make a choice to do so right but like
i think people can get really stuck in like oh this is what it is because this is how it was as opposed to like what's the curiosity here like what else could we change or what what do we want to see here and i don't think people always think that way you know absolutely and i think curiosity is It's amazing quality to have, you know, to be curious and to be able to even put a little bit of risk in there. Because especially when it comes to long-term relationships, I find people get bored.
Yeah. They're bored and the body gets bored because the body knows exactly the sequence of the sex that's going to happen. Right. Right. So I think we have to give it little surprises, be a little bit curious. and adventurous and uh but of course feeling like feeling safe at the same time
Which only happens if we're willing to, like you said, get curious and start to understand parts of ourselves that maybe we haven't understood before, ever understood. And so it all comes together as we get curious and willing to step into it and take a little risk, like you said. Yeah. You know, I'm curious about your thought is like, I know that women are completely different in how our bodies operate than men. But I also think that a lot of our way that we, you know, have.
the way we operate it's also got to do with a lot of conditioning you know because i mean if we spend generations of not pleasing women or understanding women's anatomy and all those type of things of course it's going to take us a very long time to get warmed up and turned on because like you said there is
a natural reaction or fear that it was it's going to be a certain way and so i'm not saying that we aren't different but what's your thought on that because i think that i think if we like imagine growing up in a like in a culture from thousands of years where women are always you know revered and everybody knew their anatomy and really loved pleasuring women i can imagine that women would be different as far as like how turned on we get and how quickly we can get turned on
um so what's your thought on that because i think there's of course a long complication of like ideas on how women's sexuality is and the lacking of understanding on that and that how much that impacts our sexuality now well That is one reason why I love doing sex education, right? To actually educate women on how their sexuality works, how...
A lot of women didn't even see their vagina before. Right. Or their vulva. Right? Because we are so afraid to look. That's why we don't have a lot of conversations around sexuality. And I absolutely love doing that because it's just like with the shame, because there's a lot of shame around it. I like talking about it and really making it very normal.
I think it's very important that we normalize sexuality and we normalize conversations around sexuality. They're not all hush-hush. And the more we know and the more we... explore our own body and have a relationship with our own body the better our sexuality would be yeah yeah education is vital for
Most people, because like you said, there's been such lacking of education or the lacking makes education, right? Where we have ideas or belief systems about ourselves and our bodies. And so like having those tools and understandings. start to be revealed is also very transformative because of that reason and uh we're really reclaiming how we view our own anatomy and like the magic of women's bodies right i mean
We're pretty fucking amazing. Yeah. We're badasses. But you know what's also interesting is when I go and speak to women and try to do educational speeches. A lot of them really relax. They're like, oh my gosh, does that mean I'm normal? Yeah. Because our bodies are so different. They're shaped differently. They, you know, they look different. They feel different. And very often if, like, we have this...
Imagine a house and everybody builds a cookie house. So you think this is how the house is supposed to look. But your house looks really different and you think there might be something wrong with it. You are told that this is...
what a woman looks like. Yet there are so many versions of women and they're all good and they're all beautiful. And I think we really have to teach women and men their bodies are phenomenal they're magical and they work in a different ways and that's beautiful for sure i mean i think that's one of the huge things right where it's like
you know, pornography or whatever, they make it look like one woman's body is that's how every woman's body, every woman's vulva should look like. And of course, that brings shame and feeling like something's wrong with you. And that's why there's a huge amount of reclamation being able to figure out what you look. like and knowing that that's freaking stunning and beautiful and so many women have all these unique bodies and uh yeah that's a huge part of the process i believe yeah absolutely
Yeah. So tell me more about like power dynamics as a tool for healing rather than control, because I think there's a lot of misconceptions about like BDSM and being a dominatrix and all that type of things. And that can, of course, lead to. its whole set of things and so tell us about that as far as how you help people heal with those kind of power dynamics well well first It's really great to actually teach people about power dynamics, what power dynamics are. And the fact that...
We have power dynamics everywhere all the time. Yeah. Okay. Like yesterday I had a conversation with a friend of mine and I was watching how beautifully the power dynamics were switching.
what power dynamics are pretty much that one person leads and the other person follows and when we lead we have the responsibility um to kind of hold the container and i find that that is um that is very important that we learn how to lead in our relationships in the conversations at work and everywhere you know so when i'm working with my clients i'm teaching them if they want to learn you know how to lead um
How to. How to do it. How to hold the other person in their absolute attention. That is a very difficult thing because we as a society are used to... not pay really attention for too long too long right our attention span is like two seconds and then it goes you know we're gone right um so to it's really important because I find that our definitions in our relationships are not well defined. Our roles in our relationships are not well defined.
And the relationship really works well and easily when we define the roles. Does that make sense? Yeah, I mean, tell us a little bit more. I think this is a good topic.
Oh. That's a lot of fun for me. Well, I mean, I know that there's like... um the woman's unbound to power or the book whatever that book is called oh my gosh absolutely yeah by kasha urbaniak yes i love that book and it's like i read that book about three times and i listen to it all the time that's so good well i think that what the thing that i like is like teaching women like um you know how she talks about the power
You know, we always go into ourself when we're trying to ask for a raise or something like that. Yes, of course. Yes. You know, like, for example, like, oh, somebody asked you how.
how come you haven't had kids yet we're always kind of coming back into ourselves and we're like trying to over explain ourselves as opposed to bringing the power or the energy back out into them and like why do you ask that you know what i mean and so like i think that's part of the thing right where we don't always understand like
It's not always has to be this internal thing for us and our thing. We can bring it back out of us. I don't know how to explain it super well, but maybe you have some tips about it. Yeah, well... I don't work much with women. That's why I'm like, I work a little bit more with me being as a, as a powerful person and I'm teaching the clients how to bring it, focusing the clients, how to bring the power out of them.
But yeah, absolutely. So it is that the leading person, the top, usually, or the dominatrix, right, the dom, has always power out. So I can tell you about the conversation yesterday I had with the person. And I was watching them when I was speaking. When they were speaking. they had my complete attention, right? So they were the dawn, the moment. My complete attention, they were looking me in the eyes and everything was flowing beautifully. And then I realized that when I started speaking,
They cast their eyes down. And I was thinking to myself, are they listening to me? Or are they really, are they thinking? Oh, I know already what she's saying. Like, I know better. Or are they just waiting for me to finish? Right? So the power of attention, it's one of the biggest power that... One of the biggest qualities that I bring into doming session is my power of attention. When I'm sitting with somebody and they're telling me their story, they have to have my 100% attention.
And when the people have your 100% attention, then they can relax. Right. Right? They relax because they know I am paying attention to them. They are seeing. They are heard. And being seen and heard is extremely important for people. Yep. Everybody wants to be acknowledged, seen, and heard. So if we are paying attention to somebody, and absolute attention, then they can relax. And then they...
feel safe. And that as a dome, that is my job. That is the most important thing is that I have them. I've got them. So whatever. happens, I am here to support them. I'm here to see them. I'm here to witness them. And I find that for us in our relationships and in our life is really the most important thing. One of the most important things is to be there for people to witness them and hear them.
yeah i agree with you i think that's what truly everybody wants and everybody needs right and so i think there could be a lot of collapse in people like you said whether it's eye contact but there's collapse in the energy right so they uh and that's
I would imagine the reason people don't always feel heard and understood is because if you can't have that attention and have that kind of container, then it's going to have, even if it's not a conscious thought, there's going to feel a sense in the body of like,
They're going to feel that collapse and then the safety kind of disappears and the feeling of feeling valid or heard or understood, it disappears. Absolutely. And as I said, that's what we all want. And that's how really good conversation, that's how really good. a conflict resolved happens right it's not just our words what we say it is actually our energy yeah because then They are able to come out of their shelf. You can get more information from them.
Because I always tell people, if somebody is angry, if somebody says no to you, if somebody is upset with you, get triggered, it is because they are protecting something that's very, very valuable to them. It is usually their heart, right? It is their emotions. So if they see us having, really holding them in the attention. And being them for them, they tend to open way more and they tend to react less because they feel help. Yeah.
I think that you're speaking to, like I said, it's super vital. And I mean, you said you work with mostly men. I think that women, like you said, when we open and can soften and surrender, that's a very different feeling and experience in our bodies.
I know that women sometimes struggle with if they have a male partner who maybe can't hold the container, right? And they can't stay in their presence or in their dominant energy. And so how do you work with men or what should women and maybe even understand about how to?
start to cultivate a life where they can receive that from their partner or ask that from their partner. Because I think that it's actually one of the main things that people really want in their dynamics and in their relationships, and they don't know how to get it. I think it's really hard for women to... open up and trust the man if the man doesn't have that attention. Right. Right. Because as I said, that's the time when we feel safe. It's the containment.
So the man really has to have strong boundaries and understanding of his own power. And it's not having power over. right not to have our or but just really it's the containment of of the woman to say you are safe with me you know whatever happens i am here and men are not taught that yeah right men are not taught that because a lot of men in this society we are they had um
They just grew up with mothers where it wasn't safe. Right? A lot of men these days, I find, really don't know where their role is. Agreed. you know they've been so the patriarchy was bad for women it was bad for men as well right this men can you know men don't cry and men cannot show up emotion and they really don't know what to do. I cannot tell you I know how men feel, yet we kind of are telling them all the time how to feel. You know, and often we want men to be...
more comfortable with their emotions and everything, but are we women ready for them to be emotional? Hmm. Right. Right. So, I mean, I know that like, You know, I think, like you said, there can be confusion, right? Because men had a certain role, you know, to be providers and had certain things they were supposed to do. But I feel like as...
We're evolving as a society. They don't always know what's expected of them or how they can even show up for themselves and all that stuff. I think there's a lot of confusion. And I don't think everybody notices that and like the struggle of that. And that's, I think that's sad too. Yeah. And, you know, there's a lot of women who now women, they want to be providers and that. So it's, I always think it depends on a relationship and it depends on the dynamics in the relationship.
how do two people negotiate what is going to like who's going to have a role and i don't mean that like the man has to have the provider role and women has to be the nurturer It can be switching in different sections of the relationship, right? But it is really hard for men to... to figure out what they are, especially now after the me too movements, you know, my clients go, I don't know, can I like say to a woman that she looks nice or how is she going to take it? And, um,
You know, is it going to be bad of me to do that? Or am I, is it okay? You know, so I think this is like, oh. our society really screwed up i know it well how do you feel like men take it when they start to understand that maybe they don't haven't learned this container to be able to hold the power of the dynamic right like do they
see that it's a relief to find that out do they feel hurt by it like what's your experience with that because i guess that i think that um it's an important thing that someone can learn and not just men but so like what's your experience with men as far as them getting to this point of like oh I find that, again, it really depends on men. Some men, it's easy for them. We just have to a little bit tweak because they're afraid.
If I tell them they have to hold a container, they have to be strong. They're like, well, I don't want to be overpowering, right? I don't want to be the brutal man. I don't want to be that caveman. I don't want to be like that. So they're very much afraid of that too. But then when we talk about it and I say, well, you know, what actually you holding containment means just really.
your presence, to be their presence. That's one of the most important things, again, to be a presence. So to be the container so the woman can actually beautifully flow within the container. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes a whole sense. You know, because it's like boundaries are extremely important because if we know where the boundaries are, then we can just...
relax into them. And we can play. We can play all the way to the boundaries. But if we don't know where we are, where the boundaries are, are we like... Oh, if I make a step, am I going to be over the boundary? Am I going to be close to the boundary? Or do I still have few steps to go to the boundary? Yeah, makes 100%. you know and we talk about that a lot and one thing that i teach a lot of men surprisingly and you probably uh kind of deal with something similar is when we doing a
a lot of tantric work, for example, right? And we ask people to breathe and we ask them to sound. It's just amazing how many men do not want to sound. because they are afraid to sound they are afraid to make noise right because they are afraid to be seen as very as as the as strong as a caveman. So I actually have to, whether it's in my tantric sessions or it's even in my BDSM, I make them scream. And that is sometimes so hard.
We would stand across from each other and I would say, give me your biggest scream. And you can hear just this little peep. They were like, well, I cannot scream. I'm afraid. I'm afraid to scream. And I'm like, no.
You have to scream. You have to open up that channel in you, that power, because they're still keeping it really low, and they're just... afraid and once they let out the scream you can see how their body strengthens you know they have this spark in their eyes and they're like oh my gosh i scream and nothing happened And they actually feel the power in that. I mean, I feel that same way with when I do women's work, like they're so afraid to make any noise or any sound.
And if it is, it's like, you know, been, like I said, performative sounds as opposed to like even primal sounds of anger or sorrow, whatever it is. There's a lot of fear there. And I definitely see that when we work with that kind of stuff, it's hugely transformative and it really shifts things for people. It is because we women, we were told to be seen, not heard. Right.
And the men, on the other hand, they were taught that they cannot be brutal, that it's just they're scary and they're this and they're that. So they are afraid of their own power too. For sure. Yeah. Do you have any thoughts or advice for the listeners who are mostly women that who want to have their partner step into a container that you're talking about with presence? I don't know. How do they go about getting this kind of conversation going with their male partner?
And if it's done parling correctly, I'm sure men are going to shut down and feel rejected or whatever it is they're going to feel. And so any thoughts on that? Because I know that this, I think women would want to know what your opinion is on that. Usually, it does not take one conversation. It doesn't take one conversation. And I find...
I find that these conversations, any really difficult conversations, have to be set up very carefully. So I would say if you are hoping to have a conversation, um to set really good time set sorry set time for it set an hour you know give it a long time set an hour at least Time when you are not worried about going longer or shorter. You're not worried about being distracted. Absolutely no alcohol, anything like that. And prepare your partner about it, you know, say.
I would like to really talk to you about something and I'm afraid to talk about it or I'm uncomfortable. Whatever word really works, resonates with you. Yeah. Make sure that they know that you are there to reveal something of yourself, too. Whether it's your desire, probably. Right? Yeah. And be ready that whatever the conversation is and whatever their response is, you have to let them to have that response. Yes.
So the response can be no, and you should make sure that you are okay with their no. That's the key right there, right? It's like... practicing the ability to be in discomfort and have that ability to hear or know and not everybody has that ability they can build it in my opinion right yes so as especially kasha urbaniak talks about it in her book unbound is One way to achieve this is to be very, feel very legitimate about what you're asking for. And that means knowing.
in your own core, that that's what you really desire. And why do you desire it? And how much do you desire it? Yeah. You know? And then... your energy is very much open and you are very in your core sure this is who I am and this is what I desire and then when you if your partner says no It can be really hard, but you can also know that that might not be the ultimate response. Right.
I think even stating the words like, I want to start the conversation, not like, hey, I want to solve this in one hour and this is what we're doing. You know what I mean? Like, setting the container is going to be really important. exactly it is because if you say oh this is the one conversation and he said no and i'm done well then he's not going to feel comfortable right right if
And this is what a lot of people are afraid. They're afraid of saying no. So sometimes they say, okay, yes, but they're not really a hundred percent in it. They just say to please the other person. They just say it to. to avoid painful conversations, to avoid arguments. So it's really important that when you go in conversation like this, you might know you always know that the no is a possibility but it does not have to be the final destination if you
I think if you really prove that you can hold their no, you can revisit the conversation later on, and it might be maybe. You might have a much...
more open conversation about why you want it and how would that make you feel? Because I think if you tell somebody how it's going to make us feel, it's always... kind of more opening you know what i mean i do yeah i think you're again pointing out the really important part where it's like being able to hold their no because that creates safety safety for them as well where it's not like
because at the end then right it's like okay we're beginning here we're both maybe uncomfortable and this is where we're at and then now we can hopefully continue to explore but it's like i said not going to be a one-time situation absolutely and you know
And a no is a beautiful thing to say, too, because if somebody says no, then that opens more conversations. It opens conversations if you're really curious about their no. opens conversation to learn why and that opens conversations about about the why so you get to you can build
amazing intimacy on their no. If they feel safe, if they feel safe to say their no, and if they, and you... react you know normally you say okay i understand then maybe later you can revisit the conversation and learn a little bit more about the no and That might give you incredible insights into that person and into their world that normally if you freaked out or if you got into fight or just shut down yourself, you would not have the access to.
Yeah. And I can feel like that no is actually a beautiful thing. Because like you said, if someone says yes, because they feel like they have to or whatever, that's trickier than if someone's pretty firm with their boundaries. But I think, like you said, it opens the door.
to uh more exploration instead of being like maybe in in um not in alignment with what your true answer is right and so i know can also be a gift and i think that's an important element as well yeah Like in my BDSM I have clients when they in the end that list as I said, it's called The list is called Gosh, I forgot now it's like a boundary and um so they have a there's an activity and they rate the activity from one from zero to five
Zero is absolute no. And that means whether it's some trauma or it's physically impossible, something like that. And five is... is yes, this is so awesome. So that's, I really like this because my clients give me a rating, like one could be, I really don't like it, but if... The circumstances are right. If I feel open to it, if we, you know, our relationship is so strong that I would trust you to go there with you, I might be.
I might be inclined to do it. And that's how I can actually see if you have conversation with somebody, you kind of get the feeling whether their no is absolute zero or whether it's one. Right. Yeah, because like you said, it's a no with... potentially right but it's also potentially a yes because like you said if you don't have the parameters or the understanding of what it really will involve then most people will be a no but if there's some slight opening then there's a chance of like
okay well what does it mean and how can we really explore if there is a yes here or not yes absolutely and it always depends on people and it depends on the relationship depends how strong the relationship is Depends how much trust is in their relationship. Really, it depends on the two people. Agreed.
So as we're coming to an end here, is there anything else that wants to be said? Maybe there's like a practice you recommend for people starting their journey or is there anything that feels like you want us to share at the end here? There's so many practices. Maybe a favorite. Actually, I think if somebody is really starting from scratch. One of the easiest practices is before you wake up, before you get up in the morning, to do just a simple body scan.
I love body scan because we do not pay enough attention to our body. And body scan teaches us to get to know our body more. And to pay our attention to what's going on in our body. And gives us a lot of information. You know, so whether it's... you know, I feel constricted here, or I feel this feels really good. We don't even know how our body feels very often. So I find that really doing body scan is one of the easiest and simplest way to really start connecting with our body.
Agreed. I love that practice. And definitely simple thing that anybody can incorporate in the morning when they wake up and just kind of start to get to know what their body is trying to tell them. Yeah. And the thing is just ask your body. Say, what do you need today? And I know it sounds really silly. At least it sounded silly to me when I started. I was like, well, my body cannot speak, so why would I do that?
And then it really intuitively comes, whether it's I need to stretch, I need to have more water, I need this and that. But it's really to cultivate this. relationship with our body and it's easy yes love that well I appreciate you coming on and sharing all your wisdom and yeah thank you very much you're welcome
Thank you for joining me on this enlightening journey through the realms of self-discovery and healing. If you're inspired to deepen your exploration further, I offer personalized one-on-one sessions both in person and virtually. Whether you're seeking to reconnect with your body, explore your sensuality, or navigate the complexities of somatic healing, I'm here to guide you at every step of the way. Remember, the power to transform lies within you.
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