Hey, I am your host, Mari Wagner, and you're listening to The Ever Be Podcast where Faith Meets Lifestyle. I'm so excited you're here. Whether you're a new listener or a longtime follower, I know there's something here for you. Pull up a chair and listen in for insightful, real life conversations and actionable steps on how to claim the. Full life God created you for. If you're a woman desiring to live a Christ-centered life in today's modern world, then this is for you. Welcome to ever be.
Welcome back to Ever Be Everybody. Today we have a friend Emily Wilson on the podcast today. I'm sure a lot of you know who she is and love her just as I do. So we're so excited to have you today, Emily. Welcome.
Thank you so much. It's great to talk with all of you out there, wherever you're listening, all over the world.
Can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do, even though I'm sure a lot of my listeners probably already know you in some form.
Yeah, it's a joy to be able to walk alongside women. So for many years, um, I've been in ministry with women, started as a high school teacher at an all girls school, and the last 14 years has just been walking alongside women in ministry. I. The greatest joy of my life is listening to women and having women share their stories with me. So I'm a wife, I'm a mother to three little ones here in California. I was raised in Los Angeles. My husband is from the Netherlands. We dated long distance.
Shout out to all you long distance Gs and guy sat there if you're listening. Um, and it's just my joy to love the Lord and share that love of the Lord in hopes that other people. Well, you know, just come to know how much he loves them. That's the, the joy of my heart and my life.
Yeah, I feel like you just, you know the feminine heart really
Mm.
the Lord has given you grace to speak into the feminine heart in a really. Gentle and loving, but also firm way. Like you're that big sister that's like, you need to know the truth. And I'm gonna tell you the truth 'cause you deserve it. And so we all need that and I'm really excited for our conversation today. 'cause it's all about the theme of your new
Mm-hmm.
Ste. Sincerely, stone Heart, it's written in the theme of the screw tape letters where. is writing to his little
Mm-hmm.
about how to attack and destroy women. How lovely.
Yes. Right. It is lovely. It's very intense. But as you know, as we know, um, there's a spiritual reality happening in our lives today, and the devil wants to discourage us, steal, kill, and destroy. He wants that for all of us. And so that's where, um, you know, my heart was born out of this book in seeing women over these 14 years and them sharing their hearts with me.
Just dumping their hearts out on retreats and at events and all over the place, um, about the ways the enemy wants to, and, and does try to steal, kill, and destroy our hearts as women. So thanks for reading the book. I'm so grateful to be here to talk about it.
Yeah, totally. Let's just dive in. What inspired you to write sincerely, stone Heartd, and specifically in that format that it is written, the Demon to Demon Letters format. How did writing it in that perspective, like how did that reveal more to you about the spiritual battle that we're facing as women
Yeah, absolutely. So the, the thing about the screw tape letters, you don't have to have read the screw tape letters in order to read sincerely stone heartd. It's just the premise. And I walk you through the premise and the introduction. The, the screw tape letters really changed the way people see in the sense of when CS Lewis wrote that, people read it and they thought. I have never thought about it this way.
I have never thought about the, the very detail oriented nature of the way that the devil is trying to pull me away from God. So for many dozens of years, people have been been writing what I would call screw tape, sequels their own take on this premise, out of their own lens, out of their own faith, out of their own life. And mine specifically was these 14 years of seeing. How discouraged women are, how fearful women are, how sorrowful women are.
We're so beautiful, made in the image and likeness of God and I've, I've walked with thousands of women for all these years looking at their faces, thinking, oh my gosh, I wish you knew how loved you are. Why? Like, how are women so discouraged? In the pandemic. I was sitting at home a lot. I was pregnant with my second son. Um, and I really got to thinking it. It really was born outta that. I really got to thinking, what is this all about?
Like, why, and I knew, but when I started to unpack it this way, I thought, man, what if I just, you know, started writing down the lies that I've heard women believe for all these years. So I started writing them down. All these papers all over the place. Um, and it just came to be and I thought, man, I should just, just try my hand at writing it like that to see if that lights something up in my own heart. Um, and, you know, and maybe reveals something for women about the truth.
So I started writing and writing and writing and it changed. My whole life seeing it in this way, I, I have, I have never seen things more clearly ever in my whole entire life about the ways the devil hates us and wants us to live in fear and sorrow. And I hope that comes across in the book for women like you who read it, who think, oh my goodness, I have never even thought about this.
Yeah. And I think when you read it, a lot is revealed and it makes sense because women are the crown of creation, the heart
Mm-hmm.
home. And if the evil one can destroy her and her identity and bring her down, I mean, there's such a ripple effect that happens from that. Like the family is destroyed, like, you know what I mean? Like
Yes,
is destroyed from that. So, um. Yeah. So much is revealed and so important
yes.
from that book, what do you feel like some of the most common or subtle lies are that the enemy is speaking to women today?
Hmm, that's a really good question. Um, I think the, one of the big ones and social media comes to play, you know, and a big part in this is. That other women have so much more of a purpose than you and that you like all of these women, they were made to shine. They were made to, you know, make big waves in the world and you are useless and dumb and have nothing to offer the world. I have heard this from so many women who think. God gave me nothing to share with the world.
I don't have any gifts. Like look at all these other women and they're just so sorrowful and they feel so broken about that. And life isn't about being like, oh, I'm so great and God gave me so many gifts. It's good when we recognize what our gifts are and we can say those out loud. This is a charism, right, or a gift God has given me. But the enemy wants women to believe I have nothing to offer the world because women were each of us. A sister named Sister Faustina.
She said it on a retreat once. She said, you reflect a piece of God's glory. No one else ever will. And the Lord wants us to live like that. And the enemy wants us to say, I have nothing to offer the world, because what we have to offer, the world is God's glory alive inside of us. And if the enemy can silence that, or dampen that, or destroy that altogether, what an accomplishment for him. What an accomplishment for him.
So I feel like that is one of the subtleties of women thinking, man, oh man. Everybody else has something to share. Not like share like we do online, but just like share in your life and your family in the world, and I've got nothing so that you don't share the glory God gave you with the world.
Do you feel like, what do you feel like is the most subtle lie in your ministry with women that you see women believing and maybe living from a place of in their hearts and in their choices and in their lives?
Yeah, honestly that they're not enough and I think that that just, I mean, relates to what you're saying. 'cause You know, as women, like I. We fall into comparison so often. So if we do see, you know, other women like that, we think, wow, they have all these gifts, they're doing all these things. And look at me here. You know, you fall into the, well, maybe I'm just not enough. Maybe I'm just not good enough. Um, and I think another light too is like I, that they can't hear God
Good one.
This, uh, beautiful ministry that we get to experience at Seek online through, um, incredible women that we look up to in our spiritual journey. It's easy to look at them and be like they hear God. have all these insightful things to say. They have, you know, all these beautiful truths that God has revealed to them to speak to other women. And here I am, you know, as the listener, like, what do, how do I hear God? I don't hear God. He might not be with me.
Um,
And we know, and we know that that's not true, and we know that the Lord speaks to all of us in such different
yeah.
reaches us in such different ways and uses different people to. Carry out his plan of salvation in, in different ways. Like we all make up the body of Christ and
Yeah.
there's that thing, right? Like the body needs both the hand and the feet and the head. We need all the parts and they don't look alike. They don't all have the same mission, but without one, the body's incomplete.
Absolutely. That's a big one. And I talk about that a lot in the book. And one of the biggest reasons why we think we can't hear God is because we have noise in our lives all the time. And I know your listeners out there, you are listening to this, and I pray that it edifies you and it encourages you and it supports you on your faith journey. But so often in our lives we have needless noise, noise that we do not need. Noise that does not edify us.
Noise that does not support, um, positivity in our lives and encouragement. In the book, I talk about that lie, and it was so mind boggling for me because I've been in that place, like you say of I can't hear God, how do I hear him? Yet my life is filled with noise. And I say this line in the book, when most of the noise is silent, she won't realize how truly deafening it is. Because how often are we watching reels, right? With no sound on?
How often are we like just like reading articles, reading news, reading all these things, and ingesting all this noise just with our eyes. We're looking at all these videos and we're looking at all these things. I. No wonder we think we can't hear God. All of this stuff is cluttering our minds. So the lie that I can't hear God, if that's something you believe out there, that Mari has, you know, talked about here, ask yourself. What am I doing to change that? If anything?
What am I doing to try to hear God more? Am I even spending time in silence? Am I even going to the adoration chapel just to sit with the Lord for 15 minutes straight? Not to look at anything, not to think about anything, but just to be. See what happens. You know those lies when we say, I believe this lie. Okay, what are you doing about it? How are you fighting back against it? That lie is so prevalent, and I think it's such a good one to identify for women.
Yeah, and you, you mentioned that too, about how the enemy just wants women to be distracted,
Mm-hmm.
confused, like bombarded and I mean, everything you said, I think we all can relate to that. And it's crazy to think that what seems like should be a simple solution. Silence. Right? Do nothing. Consume nothing. Hear, not just sit in the presence of God is actually such a challenge and even like terrifying for some people to face. Because once we actually, I mean I've experienced it in my own life, when we actually leave room for silence in a space where we feel. Like we are believing lies.
Like what are we gonna hear? What's gonna come up? What is gonna be revealed in our hearts that we're gonna have to face? That's a lot harder than being like, Yeah, something doesn't feel good, but I'm just gonna like, numb it out with a doom scroll or binge watch or live through someone else vicariously because I'm trying to ignore everything going on, um, in my own life.
So. From your advice, you know, and your heart that you see and love women with, how can we practically guard against that in our everyday lives?
so in my house we call it peace and quiet. I, it's one of my main priorities. I have a couple of really strong, main priorities with my children, and I know some of your listeners are. Mothers and some of them are not. But in with my own children, I prioritize peace and quiet. And I give them, I typically give them the option, like if we're driving in the car, um, I'll say, do you want some music or do you want peace and quiet? And so many times they say, I want peace and quiet. Both of them.
My boys are six four. And at home if someone is, you know, wants to listen to music or whatever, and the other one says, I really want peace and quiet right now. That person takes precedence. We are like, peace and quiet is the most, one of the most important things in our house. So if someone's heart desires that they trump everything, they trump everybody who wants to listen to music or anything like that because it's so important. So that's my question for women.
And there's, you know, a lot of. Ways that people do this. Like Edith Stein says, the first hour of your morning belongs to God. Right. And to, to center everything there. And before I had children, I could do that, which was such a beautiful thing to give the first hour of my morning to God. I give it in a different way now by making cereal and cutting fruit and all those things, but in the peace and quiet way, you know? And so my question, you know.
For women would be, how are you prioritizing peace and quiet in your life? And are you, are you prioritizing it at all? And yes, like Mari said, it's, it, it, you know, uncomfortable feelings come up and things you don't want to think about come up in that peace and quiet when those things come up, give it to the Lord right away, Lord Jesus, I didn't even wanna think about this. And right now I'm gonna give it to you.
Instead of scrolling or eating or watching or whatever it is, Lord Jesus, when these things come up, make a very specific pointed effort. When uncomfortable things come up, memories, whatever it is, it could be so many things, hand it over to him. Say, Jesus, I don't wanna think about this. I'm going to give it to you. Right? And let him, if you're continuing to think about it, let him be there as you think about these things and face these things in your life. Does that make sense?
Yeah, I love that piece of advice. I love the immediacy of it. Like as soon as we recognize that, or a memory or a, a feeling that is not of
Mm-hmm.
like comes up, give that to the Lord instead of letting it linger. 'cause that's what the evil wants to
Mm-hmm.
let it linger, let it fester, let it take root. And the more you think about it, the more you're like, maybe this is true. Maybe this is who I am. So that immediacy of like, oh, that's, that's not the Lord's voice. I'm gonna give it back. I'm gonna give it
Mm-hmm.
That's gotta be.
Yes. Immediacy immediately. And that's, you know, the whole premise of the book is wanting to fight back against the, the lies of the enemy immediately. Right? And the lies of the enemy aren't always like memories that come up or things that we're struggling with. That's not always the case, but that immediacy of always going to the Lord. Everything in everything my, all my instant response, right? That's what the saints showed us so beautifully.
And I think that the Saints had this internal position of, in all things, right? Really believing that scripture Apart from him, I can do nothing. Um, really just being there in that instantaneous, give everything to Jesus, invite Jesus into everything. Woo. That'll change your life.
That will change your life. I think some listeners may be hearing this section right now and just kind of wonder like, okay, I don't even know how to identify that though. Like, I don't even know. I can't do the immediate, you know, gift back to the Lord if I can't identify that. So how do we begin to recognize the voice of the enemy versus the voice of God? The voice of the Holy Spirit.
That's a great question. Well, I highly recommend reading sincerely, stone Heartd, because when I wrote it in the way that the devil speaks to me and speaks to other women, oh man, I know so clearly. Now, when that voice comes in, right, and I'm whatever, putting the baby to bed at night, and that voice that's so cutting and so awful says like, you're a horrible mother. You're a horrible mother. You know?
I get tears in my eyes singing about it, thinking about just all the lies that women believe in, that cutting voice that follows us all. Writing it out, right, and speaking it in the audio book was a whole different thing. Speaking as the way the
I bet.
devil has spoken to women, like saying it all out loud was really insane. But when I wrote this and. You know, the process of that, it's like, oh, when that voice comes in, I'm like, I know that voice. It's not the voice of the Lord. Because, you know, you might have seen these graphs online that say like, the voice of God is gentle and loving and kind and good, and the voice of the enemy is cutting and it's pressure filled, and it's, you know, it, it makes me feel anxiety, right.
That that's great. Those graphs are great, but until I can recognize that in my own heart to say. This voice that tells me I'm a bad mother, or this voice that tells me I'm a failure, or this voice that I tell tells me I'm messing up everything. It's cutting and it's ugly and it's awful, and that's never the voice of God. So I'm so much better able to identify in those moments, right? When I hear those lies, I'm like, oh, this is not the voice of my father. Get behind me. Satan.
I'm so much more inclined to know, like, oh, I know who this is. Like, it's not even a question anymore. After doing this, and that's what I hope for women, is that as they see how cutting and awful conniving and subtle the voice of the enemy is, when that voice comes up, they say, I know the voice of my father, and this isn't it. This isn't it. I'm not gonna listen. I'm not gonna give into your games. I'm not going to bow to the ways that you're trying to steal, kill and destroy me.
Get outta here. And then you proceed with life and love and joy, and the hope that God wants for you. It's, you know, and not to make it sound easier than it is, but is this process of like, Lord, help me to identify this voice so I can live in the freedom that you made me for, you know.
Yeah, and I think the word cutting is so precise. Like when you said that, I was like, that's how it feels. And I think it does take listening to conversations like this, reading the book, just kind of being faced with the reality to recognize that. 'cause sometimes it can be, at least in my experience, so disguised in my own voice. Where it's like this negative self-talk of you, like, oh, you didn't do that very well. Oh, you definitely aren't good enough at this.
Mm-hmm.
should have tried harder, X, Y, Z. You know?
Yeah.
not being a good wife, you're not being a good daughter about all these
Mm-hmm.
And it sounds like yourself, and it sounds like I'm just trying to be better. And it's funny because there are times when, well, two things. One, I've come to notice, as you said, that word cutting, that's what it
Mm-hmm.
like a pie. like a bad piercing.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
That feels so uncomfortable and that hurt me. And then too, I think, a, a gift of marriage too is as you begin to get to know your spouse, they begin to get to, they begin to know what that voice looks like for you as well. And so there's been several moments in the past, I mean, few months even where I've been saying things out loud to Trey and he's been like. Stop that is not the voice of God. And you know, he has to be firm sometime and be like, that is not true.
Like, we are not going to say that again. We're not going to believe that. And times when I've even asked him, I'm like, can you just pray for me? Because I like that seems true to
Mm-hmm.
And when he's able to kind of say that to me and pray for me in those moments, that brings me outta that even more to recognize that those. Words were lies. He reminds me of my truth, which always brings me back to my identity. And that's something that you talk about a lot as well, is how as women, we're God's beloved. That's our truest identity. And I think in the Catholic world, this term of God's beloved or daughter or daughter can be so light sometimes 'cause we hear it.
So often it's like, what does it mean to be a daughter? Does it just mean to like wear a pretty dress and just like, you know, like love our femininity? But I feel like it's so much fiercer than that. can you share some practical ways that we can root our identity in that truth every single day and be reminded about that every day, even when we don't feel like
Yeah, so the exploration of identity as beloved in the book started in the chapter. Looking at the keys, I think it's letter three, and the Lord gave me this insane analogy. Um, I. You know, many of you out there might have identified with this, um, you lose your car keys, right? And you're going to an appointment, you're going somewhere, you're going to this thing. You gotta get to this party, and you cannot find your car keys. And has this happened to you ever? Mari?
The, the day I read that chapter, Emily, I ran late because I lost my car keys and I was like, oh my gosh, Emily. It's like you're here.
Totally. So women listening out there, you are looking for your car keys and you're frantic, and you're looking around everywhere and you're looking in your pockets, right? As a mom, I'm taking the kids to the park. You know, it's winter time, you have your jackets. You're like, oh my gosh, are they in a pocket? Are they in the diaper bag? Are they in. Wherever they are. And you're frantically looking around everywhere thinking, oh my gosh, I'm gonna miss a meeting.
Oh my gosh, this is, this is horrible. This is how the enemy wants us looking for our, our identity. This is how he wants us to be frantically searching high and low in every pocket in everything. All of those things being analogies for where we look for identity in our appearances, in our accomplishments, in, um, you know, the life, the life milestones we've achieved. Right. All of these different places.
The enemy wants us in this frantic, frenzied, anxious, stressful search for identity, our identity as beloved. And I'll spoil it. 'cause there's a lot of letters if you choose to read it. I say in that letter. The letters were in her back pocket the whole time, right? And if you're a person who wears glasses, you know, you're like looking at everywhere for your glasses
were
and your glasses are on your head and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm such a dumb, dumb all along, or this thing that you're looking for. It was in the most obvious place. We all know that feeling. That is our identity as beloved. It is in your back pocket. I could sob my eyes out thinking about how much I want women to believe this, like you said. It can become a light saying like, oh, I'm a daughter of God.
Like, you know, like talks we used to hear when we were teenage girls, like, you're a princess, like wave your W high and all the girls who you know who like hate, that's like barf. I don't identify with this at all, and it becomes this cheesy thing, but man, it is the least cheesy thing in history is our belonging to the Lord is our belonging in his. Family is in the reality that we are beloved and we don't have to look a certain way to earn that.
We don't have to achieve a life milestone to earn that. We don't have to do all the right things to, for God to say, yes, now you've earned it. Now you've done enough. Now you've, you've done, you've done well. It's not, that's not the way that it is in our life. We've so been conditioned to earn things. I talk in the book about report cards, right? And you have to get the right grades and do the right things. The Lord's like you don't stop looking, stop being
Um,
so frantic, stop being so frenzied. Would you just rest? Right? The loving voice of the Lord, right? That 'cause convicts me sometimes and says, would you just rest in it? Would you just slow down and believe? That the keys are here, like I'm here. Your belovedness cannot be changed, cannot be stripped away. And so for women really to start their believing, not in a cheesy way, it's it, it's, it's already within me. I am already beloved. It's not something I'm gonna find.
It's not something that I'm gonna earn. It's something God has given me to ask the Lord to help you embrace. That will change everything. At least it did for me. I don't know if you can speak to that yourself.
Oh, absolutely. And I think the thing that helps me as I get older is going back to like a young version of myself, a like little, little mari like baby Mari, because I grow older. You know the Lord has, we talked about gifts earlier. Sometimes you recognize like, wow, look at all the gifts God's given me. I can do it myself. And you think that like you, you're, you become self-reliant. You're like, I can do so much. I can do it myself, and we only go to God and we really need something.
But what has really helped me go back to my daughter, my belovedness, and my need for my father, and how my worth comes from my father, not in what I can do or. Or provide or perform going back to this like baby Mari self because she needs her dad so much. And the image I have in my brain is this picture that my mom took of me and my dad when I was a newborn. It's one of my favorite photos I have of my childhood.
My dad is lying in bed and I'm literally just a few days old, like curled up on his chest and he's kissing my head and I'm just like. That's daughter like curled up on your father's chest knowing you don't have anywhere to go, but to be there and receive he's providing for you. The safety, the love, the providence, like oh, the grace that God is always bestowing upon us. And he is just saying like, you just need me.
You just need to be here with me and like I am giving you your daughter, your worth, your belovedness, and you don't need to find it anywhere
Mm-hmm. I love that. And I think sometimes it can be hard to believe in that belovedness for women whose fathers were awful and whose fathers, you know, were really absent, non-existent, their fathers who were cutting voices in their lives. And to those women who think like, man, it's so hard for me to accept that identity as beloved because I have no idea. What the love of a good father looks like. Really simple prayers each and every day.
Say, Lord, teach me what the love of a good father looks like. Right? Show me your love. Heal my heart. Let me embrace, um, what true fatherhood was supposed to look like from you Lord. And like, ask for that every single day and let the Lord heal those places in your heart if you really struggle to believe. That the love of a father can be good at all.
He wants to heal that in your heart, and he wants you, like Mari said, like he said, to be, you know, just curled up in his chest to teach you what that feels like and what that love that you should have received throughout your life is like from his heart in that most, most pointedly in that peace and quiet with him. There's a quote that I love that says There is a peace that can be found only in listening to the quiet of God's love for you, and like the Lord's healing can come in that place.
I love how that includes the word
Mm-hmm.
us back
Mm-hmm.
silence that we need to
Mm-hmm.
Uh, I'm curious, Emily, was there a particular lie in the book that you personally wrestled with as you were writing it, that you just felt like, dang, this is cutting me to the heart. How did God walk you through it?
Yes. That's a great question and I might, um, throw that question back to you after this. After I say mine, the heart will, there are so. In the beginning, the book was a self portrait of the ways the enemy worked is on me. But as I started writing, it became a portrait of all, it's like a memoir of everything I've ever heard women share with me for the past 14 years. The one that is so closely related to the biggest struggle that I have in my life is letter. 41, it's called the empty theater.
And in it, I talk about could have, would've, should have, and how the enemy works on me and tries to steal, kill, and destroy my peace every day by having me look at the past and all the ways I've messed up and all the people I I've let down, and all the ways that I wish things had gone differently or things that I wish I had done differently. And like that.
Oh man, I cried so much writing that letter because the enemy wants me just stuck in the past looking in the rear view mirror of life thinking, man, oh man, I wish that had gone differently. I wish I made a different choice. Whatever it is, just stuck there. And how many women can identify with that of being stuck in the past, right? You just can't let go of whatever it is. Your boyfriend, your memories, your choices, whatever, and how the enemy just wants us there.
Could have, would've, should have. You could have done this, you should have done this. Things would've been so different. Have you had, had you gone this way? And I talk about how my life has kind of felt in this way that the enemy works on me. Like I'm sitting in an empty theater and across the screen, right, the movie of my life is playing and all of the things that I regret or wish had gone differently. Play all the time. And the enemies, they're like, you're so stupid.
Like, oh my goodness, look how you've messed up. Look at you. Let her down so much. You, you didn't do that. Like, look, you're such a failure. And it destroys me. And I think there are kind of two sides to the coin. Women who struggle with living too much in the past, and then women who worry constantly about the future, the enemy's like, oh ahead. There's so many scary things. It's all gonna be awful. Right?
And so I think, I really think there are like two types of people in the world, um, who struggle with these different things. But for me. Man identifying that now when that voice comes up, like you're so dumb, you should have done, you know that differently. I just say, get behind me, Satan. I ain't focused in on the past.
I'm looking forward through the windshield rather than the rear view mirror, and it's gonna change everything I. On the other side of the coin, what would you say in the book was, or in your life even right now, if you can share in vulnerability with your listeners the lie that you maybe have believed, um, that was highlighted in the book or maybe not, um, a lie that you struggle or you're wrestling with in your life in this season here and now.
Yes, totally. I think for me it's just this underlying lie of like you have to earn, God's love. And it's funny because with the formation I've received throughout my life and as a missionary, like my head I know, oh, I don't have to earn God's love. God loves me. But then. In the depths of my heart and that cutting voice that comes in somehow, that's always how it's wrapped up to be like, oh, you should have done better because then you know, God would've blessed you better.
And it's kind of this connection between like the, the better you perform, the better blessings God gives you. It's almost like he gives you blessings according to how well you. Earned it. And that might come from being the eldest daughter, being a perfectionist, being a high achiever. You know, it's all like intricately like the Lord, not the Lord.
I think the evil one even uses some strengths that we have to break us down and to kind of distort how God approaches us and views us, and that has, yeah, been something that I've been wrestling with. Tremendously the past three years of as we've tried to start a family and to have faced struggles we did not think we would face. And coming from, like, my story with the Lord was like, we were always walking hand in hand.
Like we always had the same plan and like, you know, that was the college we wanted to go to and that's where we went and that's the man we wanted to marry and that's who we married. And you know, this is the job we wanted. So that's what we got. And so it was like we're always working hand in hand and I'm working for the Lord and he's blessing me.
And then, you know, one day it was like I was still working for the Lord, but then this like one prayer of like wanting motherhood did not come to fruition and continued to not come to fruition. And all of a sudden I was like, am does the Lord not trust me to be a mother? Like, am I not doing things good enough? You know, like, and I've, and I've spent my life like serving the Lord and like glorifying him. So like. I don't, I deserve that. Like we would be great parents, Lord.
You know, and it's, it's, it's funny, I was with my, um, sister-in-law at the zoo over Mother's Day. we were seeing a ton of families, um, you know, around with their children. And, and sometimes you look at some that look a little like, interesting and you're like, Hmm. they're, and they, the Lord gave them children, you know, like covered in tattoos and piercings, head to toe. And you just kind of wonder like, where, what is the history here?
And like, and, and the Lord deemed them to be a mother, but not me. So it's easy to kind of fall into that. For me sometimes that's the lie and I have to, um, have, yeah, that reframing of just like. The Lord is not conditional upon anything. His love is not conditional upon anything. He didn't bring you in into existence because of how well he thought you would glorify him or how well he thought you would serve him. 'cause in fact, he knew you were human. He knew you would fall.
And so if he thought you were going, like he didn't bring you in 'cause he thought you were gonna be perfect. And so just always going back to the Lord's love is unconditional. The Lord's love is always there and you don't have to do anything to earn it.
Yeah. I so appreciate your vulnerability about this, your openness about this, because I think that there's a lot of women, you know, and I know that you connect with them so beautifully, silently, struggling with that or with unanswered prayers for the women out there who wanna get married so badly and they think, man, what did I miss? What did I do wrong? Lord, I thought you loved me. When the Lord really, and we have to go back to that very difficult.
To embrace sometimes reality that the Lord's love is not, it's in what he gives, but it is not based on what he gives, right? Like when you look, um, at the Prodigal son and he comes home, right in life and all the things that he went and did and all that stuff, and I'm not comparing anybody who has desires of their heart to the prodigal son. Understand what I'm saying? His desire, right, in all things was for. The father, right?
He wanted to just come back and be with the Father, and it's this beautiful thing that the Lord has shown me right throughout the time of the prayers that I have prayed or whatever it is. That question of like, are you running back home to me or are you just running to me in general?
Maybe not as a pral son after being with the pigs, but just running to me in general and as you run to me, are you looking at me or are you looking over my shoulder at what you want me to give you at what you hope is gonna be there? If you love me fully, if you give of your heart fully, you know I hear like the, the lie that drives me crazy for so many women. Like once you give your heart to the Lord fully, that's when he'll bring the right man for you. Like that's when you'll meet him.
And I'm like, it's not true. We want the Lord, love the Lord with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength. It is not this, this, this bar that you meet and then the Lord's like, yes, now I'm gonna send you this man. Now I will send you a child. Now I will do whatever it might be. These things are so hard to wrestle with and I love your openness to sharing about, you know, just your journey and loving the Lord and having this.
Deep desire in your heart and continuing to just glorify the Lord where he has you in the here and now. It's such a beautiful testament for women. Your light and your love, and your faith. So thank you for sharing that, even in the midst of this struggle that you're facing in your life with your husband right now. Yeah.
totally. And I mean, something you said is
What I.
back to a lot is like, do I. love the Lord because of what he gives or because of who He's, and it's been refining for me, and I mean, I know that anybody who's gone through deep, deep suffering, while it's a mystery and confusing many times, if the Lord allows you to see. Purpose in it. You almost are grateful for
Uh.
You almost are grateful for it because you realize, I mean, I've realized like my relationship with God would not be what it is today, and I would not have grown the ways that I have if I had not faced this challenge. Um, and so my trust is deepened and it is beautiful and it's still hard, you know,
Yeah.
hard. It still requires daily yes to the Lord, daily reminders that his love is unconditional and that I don't have to earn it. Um. But Yeah.
Yeah.
you for, for recognizing that vulnerability.
It's so powerful.
we wrap up, Emily, if your readers would walk away with one truth from this book, what would it be That you want them to know?
That God made you to live in freedom and that's another thing that beco can become light. Like you could put that on a tote bag. God made you for freedom, but God like actually deeply wants you so surrendered in the every day so surrendered to where he's taking you, what he's doing, how, how he's moving, how he's loving, so that you can like live in this freedom. From worry, from fear, from this discouragement.
It's like a burden on your back, like you're carrying around a backpack full of bricks and trying to get through every day. No wonder you're exhausted. No wonder you're, you know, just so broken down. The Lord wants to like, take every brick out of the, outta your back. You're a failure. You're all, all the, all these lies that you believe day in and day out. He wants to take 'em all off your back so you can.
Feel free to run and like in the least cheesy way, spend your life like running the race, right? That St. Paul talks about running the race set before you in freedom so that you can inspire other women to do the same. To be like, man, she's so free. She's so at rest, she's so at peace. I wanna be just like that. Like you talked about in the beginning of our time here together, it's a ripple effect that the enemy doesn't want women to have.
So when women live in freedom, they give other women permission to do the same and it's. So powerful. God made you to be free. That stone rolled away. Jesus came out and you were free. And boy, oh boy, if we could live more like that's true every day the world would be such a different place.
Mm. Amen. I mean, I know that in my own life that when I finally like lived in the Lord's way, and way I described finding this freedom was that he, he allowed me to experience the most Maori version of myself. Like for the first time I was like, I. Know exactly who I am and I feel so free to be fully myself in every way. Um, so that is something I want for all women as well. What a beautiful message. Thank you.
for spending time with us this morning and for writing this book that we know are gonna bless so many people.
Thank you. It's such a gift. Yeah. If your readers want to walk alongside me in the audio book, like I said, I read the whole thing out loud. If you're an audio. Audiobook listener, you can do that. And then there's a group discussion guide. I wanna bring women together with this so we can like talk about these things. Women can talk about the lies they specifically believe. So that group discussion guide you can find on my website, Emily Wilson ministries.com.
It's totally free and it goes alongside the books so. If you're doing a book study or a book club or you just wanna read with your best friend, just, you know, get the book, use those questions, and oh my gosh, you're gonna be, I hear from women, they're like, um, we talked until three o'clock in the morning. I'm like, amazing. All the better. Life is short. Let's chat about real stuff, you know?
That is so good. Okay. So they can find the book in the discussion guide on your website.
Yes, you can find the book on Amazon, Barnes and Noble. Wherever books are sold, you can get Sincerely Stone Heartd on Amazon. You'll have the audio book. Um, and then yes, the discussion guide is free on my website, Emily Wilson ministries.com.
We'll make sure to link that in the show
Thank you.
if they wanna hear more from you. where can they find you?
Yeah, I have a YouTube channel. You can also find me on Instagram sharing about life and its obstacles at MWI Ls S, and hopefully in your nearest church, if you ever run into me say hi. I love, love. My ministry is for women. So many women come to me and they're like, I'm sorry if I'm bothering you. I'm like, you are not bothering me. I do this for you. My heart is horrible. Yes. I love, love, love meeting you. So if you ever see me out and about, I would love to give you a hug and say hello.
Thank you, Mari, for having me on, for sharing your heart today in our discussion. I'm so grateful for everything that you're doing for women and for the church.
Oh, thanks. Um, awesome. Well, we'll catch you guys next Wednesday. Bye.