Hey, I'm your host, Mari Wagner, and you're listening to the ever be podcast where faith meets lifestyle. I'm so excited you're here, whether you're a new listener or a longtime follower, I know there's something here for you. Pull up a chair and listen in for insightful real life conversations and actionable steps on how to claim the. full life God created you for. If you're a woman desiring to live a Christ centered life in today's modern world, then this is for you. Welcome to Ever Be.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:Hey Eve, welcome to ever be. I'm excited today's conversation I think is so needed and I'm really looking forward to getting into it. All things chastity with you because I think this is a topic that is commonly misunderstood and there's so much more to it than just saying no or just a list of things that you have to wait to do until you're married. Um, and so I'm excited to talk about it. Clear the air. And just offer some encouragement to our listeners who may be struggling in this area as well. But before we jump in, why don't you introduce yourself and just tell us a little bit more about you?
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Hi, I'm so excited to be on the ever be podcast. My name is Eve Rosemary. I'm a 21 year old chastity speaker. I'm from Wisconsin, but actually just graduated a month ago from Benedictine college in Kansas, where I was studying theology with a minor in entrepreneurship, and now I'm on a nationwide. speaking to are telling teens all about chastity and I'm using shrines as my road map, actually. So I get to go to these shrines, these places of spiritual renewal, and then also share their stories, share the miracles that have happened there, especially during the Jubilee year in the Catholic Church. And then while I'm in those areas, I've been able to speak to thousands of teens about chastity, forming peer relationships and striving for authentic love is really the heart. of my mission is so that everyone knows and feels the love of God and knows that they were intentionally and uniquely made by our loving Father.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:That is amazing. Congrats. Congrats on graduating and just this accomplishment of taking your passions and your, yeah, just this whole endeavor full time. That's amazing. So cool to hear. And I am a big supporter of people just chasing after their dreams, especially when it relates to the faith and bringing the faith into our everyday life. Um, so we are so in sync there and I'm so excited for you. Well, amazing. Um, let's jump in. Okay. I want to start off with the topic of love because I think one of the root causes why chastity is misunderstood is because what love is is I think is misunderstood in itself, right? Like what it actually is. Um, and what we're feeling in different moments, like, is it authentic love? Is it not authentic love? So how would you define authentic love and how do you feel like that authentic, that true love differs from the way that love is often portrayed in today's culture?
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Man, the question, what is love? I think is the question that we're all asking ourselves and asking what love is. I think it's what we're all striving for. Like, we're all looking to be fulfilled. We're all looking to be chosen, to feel valued. Whether that's in our careers, in our school life, in the extracurricular activities that we do. But truly, what love is, the greatest example that we have of this, is is Jesus on the cross, Jesus in the crucifixion. That is our very definition of love, is that selflessness, that generosity. In fact, I think so often when we think of love, we think of something that is easy, something that is effortless. But the truth of the matter is, is that if we know what real love is, that crucifixion, that was not easy. That was not effortless. What true, authentic love is, is something that we put in day in and day out, we put work into day in and day out so that we can learn how to love God. And what that is, is spending time with Him, spending time in silence with God. In fact, on my own podcast, I had a guest who was once asked, what, like, how do we know that we love God? And her answer was really simple. It was, How do you know that you love God? The desire to is enough. And that's something that's always stuck with me. The desire to love God is enough because the Lord wants to grant us the desires of our hearts. He does. He wants to see us filled with joy, filled with love, filled with peace. But if we want to get to know him more, we have to spend that time in prayer with him, actively loving him, which doesn't always look like you're not going to bring like flowers to Jesus. You're not going to be able to embrace him in a hug like you would your normal friends, right? But yet, we have this really profound call to love God, to put the work in, to choose God day in and day out, whether that's through striving through virtue, avoiding sin, spending time in prayer, because the fact is, is the greatest reality we'll ever face is when we're in prayer. Everything else, everything in, in our day to day life, we can't even recognize how wonderful and how beautiful it is if we're not spending that time in prayer. And so I think that prayer is love, worship is love, and love is sacrifice. That's our definition of love by Jesus on the cross, so love truly is sacrifice.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:So I love what you said. And I think one of the ways that I've heard it described is that love is willing the good of the other in that like true love is right. It's selfless. It's outside of yourself. It's truly willing. What is good for the person that you love over what feels good to you. And I'm sure we're going to get into it, but we're going to realize that like what is truly good and holy for the person that we love. Um, it's not what we experience a lot of the time or what we feel like the culture is telling us is love or is good for them. Um, so I think it's really essential to look to God to understand authentic love. Can you talk to us a little bit about this? Like why, why should we be drawing this, um, really like definition of love, like from the Lord? How can this deepen our understanding of ourselves and what we're made for and what, what love really is?
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Well, if you wanna know more about something you have to look at. Where it came from and what made it, right? So if I wanted to know more about like the watch that I'm wearing I could go to look at the manufacturer and learn more About the product itself, but the same concept applies to us If we want to know more about ourselves, we have to look to who made us who created us and that's this loving father But we also know that this love is within us that we're desiring. And this is a universal experience. Like we are all searching for love in different ways. If you look at the movies that we watch, the books that we read, the television shows, I don't think I've ever read or watched something that didn't have some sort of love plot line. Like love is just something that is innately in us. And if we can recognize that that love is innately in us, that means it has to come from something. And. So if we want to know more about that love, right, we have to look at who made it. So if we have love, the person that created us is therefore then the definition of love because they gave us that love themselves. And I was just thinking about this today. Like, why does it matter? Why does all this, this matter? Why does prayer matter? And it's It's because, like, we matter, our faith matters, but we have the opportunity to go beyond living an ordinary life to living an extraordinary life, but we can only get that by knowing who Jesus is, embracing that, and getting to know the root of where our love comes from so that we can in turn love more purely and more genuinely in our lives.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that is beautiful. So what do you feel like is distracting people from, you know, like the true love of the Lord? Right. And like viewing love in the way that the Lord wanted it for us. Like, what do you feel like is the biggest away from that?
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Wow. I mean, there's, there's so many factors that goes into it, and For me, like, chastity's just really been the, the way that I, I mean, it's the most clear manifestation of how we love, is a lot of times in our relationships. And we can see so much of a promiscuous society, and that indicates that we're not learning how to love in the right way. And I don't want to point everything to social media, because I think that can be a really powerful tool, but I think, And it's really influenced the way that we view ourselves and our own insecurities that we do feel the need to turn to other people in order to find the gratification that we're seeking and the love that we're seeking. Uh, even for me, I've been through a whole journey of learning how to love myself. I've been through a lot of health challenges and a lot of insecurities even before that. Um, heck, I, I competed in Miss America when I was younger. I was Miss Wisconsin's teen, 2021. Like I was in an environment where my, my worth was defined in whether I walked away with a crown or not. And For me, that was, you know, Miss America. That was the crown. But for all of us, we all have that thing that we feel like we're defined if we walk away with this or with this. And that's not the truth. Because the, the truth is, is that God loves us before any of that is there. He loves us before, uh, we have the crown on our head, he loves us before we have figured out how we want to do our hair or, um, how to do our makeup, you know, like the, the little, I think it's the little moments of our day where we start turning to objects to tell us where our worth comes from. That all adds up to not understanding the way that God loves us. And so if we allow ourselves the room for silence, and maybe that's kind of where the social media. And phone usage comes in is that we don't allow room for silence. We don't allow room for ourselves to reflect. And Socrates himself said that the unexamined life is not worth living. And we don't give ourselves the opportunity to really examine our lives. So therefore we're not seeing the ways that we're loving, the things that we're choosing to love over God. And so I think it takes time of allowing yourself silence, going to Eucharistic adoration And just putting yourself before God, whether you have something to say to him or not, just putting yourself before God so that you can really examine where God is in the everyday moments because he's there.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:Yeah, that was a beautiful answer. Um, I think one of the things that stuck out to me the most too was just this whole theme of like putting our worth in something else and, you know, seeking that love that we are seeking in our hearts in return from that thing. That's not truly the true source of love. And I think we can do this so often in relationships. I mean, I relate to a lot of your story and, um, a lot of, What you experienced in high school and maybe colleges. I feel like what I experienced as well in those years and what a lot of people experience, right? There's so much focus on relationships on the boys and how am I going to be loved and perceived? And where's my worth lie and how can I reassure myself that I am worthy, that I am beautiful, that I am loved. And I think that when it comes to. and dating. We just often don't have the right mindset in
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Um,
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:it. You know, we're approaching it almost to seek, uh, maybe just like a pleasure. Like you said at the beginning, a fun time, maybe it's just to seek
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Um,
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:feel passionately about as well. So can you just share, like, how can we. How can people really approach dating with a mindset of marriage rather than just for fun or seeking for validation in their worth and their beauty?
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Yes, I think it really first comes down to laying the foundation for what you're looking for, but also who you are. So. A fun story for me is that I remember my senior year of high school, I had kind of considered dating this guy and he hadn't waited for marriage in the past and I obviously was very adamant about this decision for myself that I wasn't going to settle, that I wasn't going to change my values, and so we had a lot of conversations about waiting for marriage and what that meant to me. And in the end, the relationship obviously didn't work out, uh, because he wanted something more physically intimate and I was not willing to lower my standards for that. And I remember walking away from that and just thinking to myself, like, man, I was really about to settle with this relationship. And I don't think it's what God would have wanted for me. It's not who I really wanted to be with. It was more of just dating for fun rather than truly dating for marriage. So I went home and I made a list of, I think this list is up to like 60 or 80 things of qualities that I'd want to look for in a future husband. and I wasn't going to settle for anyone unless they had accomplished or been striving for all of the virtues on this list. Again, I understand that that's a high standard, like 80 things for a guy to meet is a high standard, but they didn't necessarily have to be at that point, but they had to be working towards those virtues. And so I made this list, I prayed over this list, every single day and after praying over this list for a while, I realized that I wasn't the woman that I needed to be to meet this man either. So I then made a list for myself of qualities of the woman that I would want to be in a future marriage for my kids someday and these qualities ranged from things of being generous to learning how to spend my money well or learning how to it was Really anything that would benefit me in a marriage and looking towards who God's calling me to be. And then, so now I had these two lists side by side of, uh, the qualities that I was looking for in a man and the qualities that I needed to become myself. And, and, Together, these qualities would be able to lean me to a relationship that was oriented towards marriage. That doesn't mean that every person that I'm dat I date, I'm going to marry, right? But it does help me discern when I'm considering dating somebody, you know, is this relationship, is this person matching these qualities? And also am I still That is a good one. Yes. Um, um, and I think we can all agree that, um, I want to say that, um, I think that, um, when you're with somebody, you're more likely to have some sort of relationship with them. But I do think that, um, I do think that, um, when you're with someone who is really trying to work towards their values, especially the things that we're talking about. Um, and I think that, um, it's really Going into dating with that mentality, you're going to have a better success rate at finding that person more quickly.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:Yeah, that was such good, like helpful, practical information and practical tips. I did something very similar. I like wrote down a list and the virtues that I was looking for and recommended that to many women. And I think it is really helpful, especially if you are in a season where maybe you're struggling to stick to your standards or you're struggling to like discern, like, is this somebody that I'm supposed to be with or not? That is good for me. I think honestly, having a tangible list is super helpful to keep your standards to kind of go back to and have something like, you know, written down for yourself that you're like, yeah, like I can stack these people up against what I'm praying for. Or what I'm hoping for and not in a judgmental way truly, but just in
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Right.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:you and your heart and your future marriage, um, and then something also that you can pray with. I think it's so important to praise specifically to the Lord for these big prayers and know that he desires to answer those. Those desires of your heart. Um, and so having a list that you can bring to prayer and bring to the Lord and be like, Lord, I'm really praying for a man like this, you know, XYZ. I even went so far as to say that I wanted him to have nice light eyes and good teeth. And it was so funny. One of the first times I
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Mm hmm.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:trey I like noticed his smile. It was like such a big smile He has really
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Oh, he
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:good teeth and you know, I ended up marrying him So the lord cares the lord cares
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:does.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:details cares about your desires for a future husband So is such a good practical. Um, yeah, I think to implement now I think one thing that I want to make sure that we catch and talk about is like how do we make sure that bringing us or that um, How can we make sure that dating and like pursuing the person that we desire to married? To marry
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Okay. Okay.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:begin to just like idolize this person instead of Viewing like this process of finding your future spouse as a way that is bringing you closer to God. Do you know what I mean?
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Yes, absolutely. That's a great question too, or a great place to start because, uh, something I always think about is that dating isn't meant, dating is meant to be. To bring you closer to god not make someone else your god, right? Like we should be should be dating for the intention of marriage, but really what that is is a vocation It's a path to god. It's a path to heaven. That's what our vocations are meant for It's whatever is god sees fit for us as the clearest way to get to heaven. And so when you're in that dating relationship, think about, you know, how much time am I spending with, like, is this person bringing me closer to God? Like, is this person from the get go someone who, whose, their faith is strong? I think your faiths do have to be strong before getting into that relationship to, to be able to guide each other to God. closer. I always say look for someone who's going to hold your hand to heaven. That's the goal. And we know when you're dating somebody is finding someone who is your path to heaven, but you don't want to cross the line where this person then becomes your god because The intent is to actually get to God, not to make that other person your God. And so I think having clear emotional boundaries is something that's really important for this. A good rule of thumb that I always encourage people with is that you shouldn't talk in the future for longer than you've already been dating. So say you're dating someone for two months, you shouldn't talk in the future for longer than two months. And I'm not saying don't have the conversations about, you know, like, Oh, this is how many kids maybe I'd want to have someday, or this is the career and these are my aspirations. But there's a difference in talking about what you desire and talking about what you desire with that specific person. Uh, so just talking in the future for as long as you've been dating, uh, versus going out. getting caught up in the moment, caught up in the honeymoon phase. Then all of a sudden you're talking about marriage and you've only been dating a couple months and then maybe things don't go so well or now you do start idolizing the person because our emotions are really strong, right? We do have this really wonderful capacity to love because again, God is love. And that's where that comes from, but I think we have to check ourselves a lot and have maybe relationship check ins where you have the tough conversations about, okay, where are we at as a couple, but where are we both at with our, our faith? Uh, where are we at with our friendships? I think that's a really good indicator too. Is this person good for me? Are they also helping me get closer to my friends or have my friendships kind of pittered out a little bit more as we've been dating for a longer amount of time? I think that's also an indicator of maybe some idolization. So, So there's a lot of little things that we can be aware of in that relationship. Uh, but um, just knowing that your faith doesn't suffer because you're in a relationship with someone else. I think so often we look at the stories of the saints and it's like, oh, I can't be a saint unless I'm a nun, or I can't be a saint unless I'm a priest. And that isn't true. Like, we all have the capacity to be saints. In our everyday life, we all have the capacity to live an extraordinary life with God. And if that is our focus and our priority, when these other things come into play, like relationships, friendships, career, those will fall into place in our lives naturally because we put our faith first. Uh, so just really keeping a tab on the other parts of your life, okay, am I spiritually healthy? Am I physically healthy, emotionally healthy, uh, as you go along in the relationship, I think is really helpful.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:that is, yeah, really helpful. Really true. And I think, um, there's just something so powerful about living a rightly ordered life. And that means that we are putting the things in the correct priority that the Lord, um, called for them to be in. And so, So knowing that, yeah, this relationship is important, but even though like this is a person you love the most right now, the Lord is still number
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Okay. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:and that you don't end up idolizing your, yeah, your boyfriend, your girlfriend, the person you're in a relationship with. Um, so yeah, keeping the Lord first in your life is, is super important. think another thing too that I want to talk about is,
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Um, Um, Um,
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:with our own like physical bodies. And I think in the conversation of chastity, it's really common or really, um, easy to fall into these thoughts of like, Oh, well then my body must be bad. You know, if my physical body like desires these things, like
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Um,
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:misconceptions. Right? So why is it important to see our bodies as good and meaningful? And how does this like understanding impact the way that we love and relate to others?
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Yes, so I want to point back to an experience that I had my freshman year of college because while this might not be directly correlated with chastity, I think it gets to the heart So my freshman year of college, obviously, you know, had just gotten to college, new start, new life. At the same time, uh, as starting my freshman year of college, I also was Miss Wisconsin's teen. And during that year, I had gone, uh, from, uh, Being Miss Wisconsin's teen, winning the overall fitness award at Miss Wisconsin's teen, going to Miss America's teen, having the best experience, uh, and really, really growing a lot, uh, myself. And then starting my year at college, I started facing all of these health challenges. I was gaining weight really rapidly. My face shape changed. I was losing hair and I didn't know why. And. As I was going through these experiences, it was the first time that I had seen my body change so much in a very short amount of time. And knowing that I was, you know, trying to make new friends, trying to meet people, going to a great Catholic college where there's a lot of cute Catholic boys on campus, and all of, all of these things coming together, I was in such turmoil of Trying to understand my body and not knowing what was going on Not knowing what my health challenges were and I remember the mass was A place of such safety for me in that moment where I would go to mass. It, I had such bad fatigue that the mass was really the only place that I found I could pray well, because, you know, you can't have, you can sit and you can stand and I don't have to worry about sitting there in adoration. for too long and falling asleep and I would go to the mass and I remember I would sit there and just be in such turmoil. I, I just did not like myself so much, honestly. And I would sit there and I would listen to the part of the mass where the priest holds up the body and blood of Jesus and says, this is my body given up for you. And every time I heard those words, I, it felt like I was saying it back to Christ. Like, okay, like I don't know what's wrong with my body. I don't like my body right now, but like, if, if the Lord is up there. On the altar saying this is my body given it for you like there must be something really profound about the body and something really good about the body that that has to mean something and if that means something that means that my body also means something and As I began to reflect on it more, I realized that whenever I viewed myself as, uh, so, I don't know, I just really didn't like myself and, uh, would view myself so much less than, than I should have. And I would just think about how much that hurt Christ's heart to know how I was viewing myself, to know how I was talking to myself. It all comes down to like, this is the body that God has given me. And this is the body that he has given me to bring him closer to him. Like, this is the means of love. He has given me to love other people, to love him better. And in a way, like, how dare I not appreciate that gift, that gift of like, this is my body is my living testimony of God's love for me, that I wake up every single day. And whether my body is working as it should, whether my thyroid is working as it should, you know, like all of that, like, like this is, this is my testimony. This body is my testimony. And it made me appreciate the body so much more because Like, Christ truly does say, like, this is my body given up for you, and that has to mean something. And we can look at that in all of our lives. Like, I, I encourage people that when they sit in the mass to think about that line. And what does that mean for your life? Like, what does it mean if Christ gave up his body for you? How does that change your life? Because our lives should look different because of that. One line in the mass. I mean the whole mass, but Specifically that one part in the mass where the priest says like this is my body given up for you And we say the same thing to Christ when we sacrifice our sacrifice the those physical temptations and relationships that When I'm dating someone for a few years and we want to take the next step step, but we're not married. Like, well, God, like this is my body given up for you. I'm going to push past this temptation, not fall into this temptation, even when we really love someone, because this is my body given up for you, God, like this is my purity and I recognize the gift that you've given me in my body and I want to honor it and serve you with it.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:Wow. You've got me like tearing up over here. I'm
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Oh,
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:like, like unexpectedly like so moved by everything you're saying. I mean like, it's true and it's just such a beautiful reminder that like, even when know, whether you struggle with self esteem and recognizing your beauty, or if you struggle with, yeah, health complications that make it really hard to understand and love your body, like, whatever it is, it is such a good reminder. Gosh, you said it so beautifully, just like your body is like, is like a testimony of God's love for you. Like your body is a testimony of, just, Yeah, just like how much the Lord like adores you and loves you that he brought you into existence and truly like, um, not just criticizing, but really like hating our bodies is, yeah, just, uh, hurting the Lord and like hurting our relationship with him. And I love the thing that you
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Okay. Okay.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:this vessel on earth for us to become closer to him. And
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:bye.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:our struggle is with our physical body, whether that's health issues, whether that's struggling and falling in chastity and purity, um, often, you know, the Lord. Has created this vessel for us to be good to bring us to him and to make us saints and to increase in holiness. So that was just a really beautiful reminder. Thank you for, sharing that. let's shift gears a little bit. I think it's really easy to talk about this conversation in the context of faith and our relationship with God and how God has, um, ordered love and what his plan is for love in our lives. But I know that there are a lot of non religious reasons why waiting to have sexual marriage is beneficial. Um, and I think it's important that we talk about that because I know that when I started to learn about that when I was, um, in high school and college and kind of just like, yeah, making these decisions for myself of like, what is chastity? Like what am I going to do? What am I not going to do? What is the faith say? You know, what is like, yeah. The not faith say, like, are there any
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Yeah.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:reasons, you know, besides just my Catholic faith that I like should not be having sex till marriage? And I remember listening to a Jason Everett talk where he like broke some of those downs
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Okay.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:share, yeah, just like, what are some of these non religious reasons that you feel like waiting for marriage is really beneficial?
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Yeah, well, I think, first of all, biologically, like we can look at this from a biological perspective, uh, which is one of the most, like, clear cut, uh, Reasons of why to wait for marriage and a really interesting part of the human person is that for a woman The chemical that's released during physical intimacy The chemical is only released three times in her entire life and that's when she's physically intimate When she's giving birth and when she's breastfeeding. Okay. If this chemical is only released those three times, it's the same. It, it, it's a chemical in the, in the brain, and it's almost like if you were to have a cup of coffee, well, that cup of coffee, that caffeine is going to be the strongest, the very first time that you have a cup of coffee. If this chemical in the brain functions the same way, which it does, then the first time that you're physically intimate. This chemical is going to be released the strongest. So if you want a marriage that has a better chance of lasting, maybe saving yourself for marriage is one of a clear cut way to help bond yourself physically to this person, uh, in a way that, you know, it's the strongest the first time that you are physically intimate. So why not make the strongest time with a person that's promising to spend the rest of their lives with you? And also then, it makes it easier to, uh, Go to breakups, right? Like not everyone that you date is going to be your person. So the easier that you can one, find out if this person is your person, but two, if they're not your person, if you haven't been physically intimate with them, it's a lot easier to end that relationship, but then move on as a result towards finding your future spouse. If you haven't been physically intimate because of that chemical connection, but also, You know, if you're in school still and you have to walk around and see that person on campus, like that's a really hard thing to go through and you're saving yourself a lot of emotional turmoil just by waiting, even though it's a difficult decision to make, but also thinking about there's no worry about being pregnant. For women, the decision to not wait for marriage is not just like a one day decision. It is the riskiest decision you could ever make, right? Because if, if this decision ends in having a child, that's an 18 year minimum commitment. It's not just a one night ordeal. It's an 18 year commitment. teen year long minimum commitment. That's the riskiest decision a woman could make for herself. So really thinking about that, you know, is this person even who I want to have children with? Is this the right time to have children? And most likely if you're not married, it's Maybe not quite the right person yet, or it's not the right timing for you yet either. So thinking about that, I think it also helps you find your spouse a lot more quickly, because it leaves the room for really genuine conversations to happen. If you're not distracted by the physical, you can have really deep conversations with that person. If it gets awkward, you're not just turning to like kiss each other to make up for the awkward silence or something. You're just allowing yourself to enjoy spending time with them. But also, you'll never have to feel used in a relationship. Most likely, it's really difficult to feel used in a relationship if you're not physically intimate. So, by saving yourself a marriage, you're allowing yourself the opportunity to get to know the person for who they are and also take confidence that if they're with you, they simply enjoy spending time with you. They're not with you because they can get anything from you. And for me, those are kind of just some of the basic reasons of non religious reasons to wait for marriage. But obviously, I hope that Even people who aren't religious can have the view of their body as something that's meant to be protected and meant to be preserved, and that's something that's valuable, especially as women, uh, where our bodies are something that's going to hold life and be the, the bearer of our families someday. So with that understanding, like knowing that virginity is something that's to be protected, your heart is something that's to be protected, and then saving it as a result for your future spouse so that you can have a stronger marriage, you can have a stronger family because you've built the foundation of an emotional and intellectual connection first, right? Just because you're not being physically intimate doesn't mean that there's no intimacy in your relationship. You still have
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:totally.
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:and intellectual intimacy that you're going to grow in. And then the physical aspect can come about when you're finally married, because then that's, you know, when the chemical gets released, that's where you are physically bonded to one another. And I think that's just a really beautiful way to set up a marriage and a family.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:Yeah, totally. I really recommend too, if people want to learn more, um, that talk I was referring to earlier, I believe it's called green sex by Jason Everett. And I don't know if that's like. of the specific talk or a series of talks I literally just remember my mom giving me a like Lighthouse media cd when I was in high school and she was like listen to this and in that talk He talks more about this more of those non religious reasons and he brings up some real statistics, which I don't have memorized So i'm totally not going to try Marriages like, uh, like divorce rates how How sleeping with, with multiple partners and, um, living together before marriage impacts divorce
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Yes.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:how long people stay married. And so I thought that was really interesting and really recommend people to, to look Now let's just chat a little bit about what advice we would give to somebody who is maybe really struggling in this area, because if we're being real chastity is really hard, especially when you've been dating someone for a really long time, or maybe when you're in a group of friends that don't have those same values. And the norm of the group is kind of just to, um, you know, Be with multiple people or be loose about your physical boundaries. Um, and especially in like college environments or
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Um, Um,
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:like we should talk about maybe like, what is some practical advice that we can give, um, for people who are struggling in this area to keep their values and standards high, um, in today's dating culture.
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Now, well, first things first, you really have to nail down why you've made this decision to wait for marriage. So I would encourage people to Read about reasons to wait for marriage, and there's a lot of really wonderful books from Jason Everett, Christopher West, Sarah Swafford, some really phenomenal authors that if you're able to read or listen to the audio books, I would really encourage that so that you can learn. really intake what that information is and let it implant in your heart so that you can become really strong in that value. Listen to podcasts if you're someone who likes listening to podcasts about it, just so that you can nail down and know exactly why you've made that decision to wait for marriage because then it's all worth it. going to be so much easier to explain it to other people, to explain to the person that you're dating, maybe that friend group that doesn't quite understand. And even if you are in a friend group that doesn't understand, know that your example does so much for your friend group. The fact that you're willing to Go against the the culture and go against the grain to make the decision to wait for marriage that speaks volumes And it's going to make your friends really curious as well as you have more conversations to make sure that You know why you've made the decision to wait for marriage whether that's for you writing that down Or just really reflecting on why you've made that decision to wait for marriage what your faith means to you Also know that You know, the decision to wait for marriage, it's not a no, it's a yes to something so much greater. It's a yes to a greater love for yourself, it's a greater love for God, it's a greater love for your future vocation. Uh, so if you're currently struggling with that and in a relationship, my encouragement to you would be to have a really tough conversation with whoever you're with to talk about more physical boundaries that you can have. That's not just a not. having sex. It's like going beyond that. So even on your worst day, your most lustful day, you can still hold by your value to wait for marriage because it's not easy. But the closer and closer we get to crossing a line or crossing that value, the harder and harder it is to wait for marriage. I give this example in my own chastity talk, and it's one of like the favorite parts of these kids talks where I have a kid come up and they hold a bowl. And I pour M& M's in the bowl and then I pour like Reese's Pieces in the bowl and top it with whipped cream and, you know, like they're holding this huge bowl of candy in their hands. And I asked them like, is it easier to eat the bowl of candy when it's in your hands or if I'd kept it? Behind the podium where they didn't even know it was there. Well, of course, it's easier to eat the candy when it's right in their hands, when there's something right in front of them. And I think it's the same thing with physical intimacy. The closer and closer we get to it that it's like sitting right in front of us, the harder and harder it is to to wait for marriage. So if it's something that you're struggling with, pinpoint those things that make you struggle with it more. It's not even just in your relationship. It's the things that you listen to. It's the things that you watch on TV. It's the conversations that you have with your friends. Really pinpointing the And being aware of the things that are going on in your head, I think is something that's crucial in making this decision to wait for marriage because again, it's not just being in a relationship. It's all the things in your day to day lives of how am I respecting and honoring my body? How am I respecting and honoring my faith from the day to day moments? I also would just encourage anyone that's struggling with chastity, like, from the get go, like, God's mercies are new every single morning. Every single day is a decision, is a day that you can make a different decision for yourself. And that's a beautiful thing about the faith. In fact, there's a story of a saint who she, uh, you might have, I've heard this story before, but she wanted to build a church. And so she went to the priest and said, you know, God told me that I need to build a church. And I think it was actually the bishop she went to right away, but the bishop said, okay, if this is something that's really from God, pray about it and ask God what my last sin was, the last sin that I confessed was. So this nun goes back and she prays and she asked God, like, okay, what was this bishop's last sin? Something very bold to ask someone, by the way, like, I don't think I would want anyone to know that information, but very bold of the bishop. to give her that command. But this story is really incredible because the nun then comes back to talk to the bishop and the bishop's like, okay, sister, like, what is, what was my last sin? And she tells him like, I don't know. God doesn't remember. And that's a really profound example of what confession does, of what the sacrament of reconciliation does, that it wipes us clean. God does not remember our sins. He does not hold that against us, especially when we go, the intent of going to confession is going and confessing a sin so that you resolve to never commit that sin again. That's the goal. That's why we go every single week. Every single time that we go to confession to seek that union with God again so that we can have the strength to continue to live out that virtue. So if that's something that you're struggling with, I would encourage you to go to confession, confess that sin, and as much as you can, go back to the same priest. Time and time again, it's a, it's a nice slice of humble pie every single time that you have to go back to the priest and commit, like, admit to the same sins. That's something that's really powerful. If it's also committing a sin with a partner, both of you go to the, go to confession. And like the same, you know, hour, the same space with the same priest, you don't necessarily have to walk into the confessional at the same time. That's not what I'm saying, but just going and knowing that you're holding each other accountable to this. And, um, that's also something that it's just almost like another accountability partner with this priest. So that's it for this week. I hope you have a wonderful day and I will see you next week. Bye! Love you. Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Give you the grace and the power that you need within yourself to be able to hold true to these values.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:Yeah, absolutely. I think, um, one thing you were saying that I think is really important to point out, um, is the whole idea of like the closer you are to, um, whatever it is, the harder it is to say no. Right. And to grasp at it. And so just a few, like, Practical boundaries, um, that are important or could be helpful to implement in your relationship. Just to add to the conversation here, um, one of them is like setting a curfew. And I know that that sounds really stupid when you're in college or older and you're like, why do I have to set a curfew for myself? You know, the whole point is that I'm free now from my parents, but. It's really helpful and, we did that in our relationship to Trey and I, we were dating in college and it's hard
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:Okay.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:Or 9 PM or whatever it is, because after that you get tired, you start cuddling on the couch, you start laying on the couch, like, you know, and one thing leads to another and it gets harder and harder. Um, another thing I've heard, um, people have done is like four feet on the ground at all times. And so that means like both people's feet have to be on the ground. Both, both, yeah, both feet have to be on the ground for both people at all times. Um, so you're not like. You're basically just sitting normally, like you can't lay down and cuddle or anything like that. Again, you have to know your limits and know what is the thing that's going to lead you, um, to lust or to lead you to sin physically with, um,
eve-rosemary_2_12-18-2024_151405:I'm sorry. I'm sorry. ostensibly a far cry from the way get the they need to get data need and that is just to too You
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:it's so important to just like continue to go back and not give up. Holding that both at the same time as not just using it as a crutch, you know, like truly striving and truly like just doing everything you can to fight the good fight to keep going with your virtue and your purity and chastity. But at the same time, like if you fall, like please run to confession, um, but don't just use it as a crutch. Don't just think to yourself, Oh, well, I'm just going to go to confession tomorrow. So like I can do this as many times as possible because I'm just going to go to confession tomorrow, you know? And if that's what you feel like, Like, pray through that, you know, and, and ask the Lord to allow you to feel the true weight of, um, yeah, just like this sinfulness that you might be living in because the more that we like are revealed the true weight, the more that we see the truth of what we're experiencing and how far from love it really, really is. Um, and I know that one thing I've heard too, and that I've shared with my audience is, um, true love won't send you to the confessional. And now that's not to. That's not to say the person you're with, if you're struggling, it's not the person you're supposed to marry. Right. But if there is like no true desire from both ends to help each other fight for purity, that's not true love because you're constantly sending each other to the confessional. Um, so just keeping that in mind when you're discerning like your relationship, um, And dating for marriage, like who has those similar values as you, who is willing to fight with you to stay chaste, um, so that you guys can, yeah, take each other to heaven as we were talking about earlier. One thing that came to mind as you were talking, when you were mentioning like the vows on the altar and, um, it just reminded me when I was. In the, I mean, not in the process of dating, but just like discerning, you know, marriage and dating different people. One thing I always reminded myself of in my commitment to wait till marriage was when you go up on the altar and say your vows and you say, you know, I will commit myself to you. I will love you and sickness and in health and all this, whatever. For all the days of my life, you make the vows for all the days of your life and all the days of your life includes every day before you were married, but every day before that moment on the altar. And so just as an encouragement, like, take that to prayer and take that to heart and. And make that commitment for your future spouse because all of the days of your life includes today, even if you haven't found the one yet, even if you're not on the altar yet, even if you're not ready to vow, you know, your whole life, um, to one person, the decision you make now is still part of part of those vows to your future spouse, um, that you vow to, you know, give yourself completely to them every day of your life. So that was just something that, um. Yeah. That really helped me. And that kind of was, um, encouraging for me in my, my season of dating and waiting until marriage. Eve, thank you so much for coming on today. So where can we follow along on your podcast, on YouTube or Instagram? Where can people find you?
undefined:Eve's Wi Fi had a little bit of trouble here, so we lost her response at the end of this recording, but don't worry, I got you. You can find more about Eve on Instagram at theeveryday. saint, and her podcast is called The Everyday Saint Podcast if you want to hear more from her.
mari-wagner_2_12-18-2024_140746:Thank you so much for all the work that you're doing in this area and just the way that you're serving the Lord with your gifts. Um, thanks so much for coming on today.