30: How To Make an Interfaith Marriage Work | Marie Mazzanti

But before we get started, can you just tell us a little bit about who you are? Um, what you do?

Um, but uh, so yeah, that's what kind of drove me to. To move in that direction for my page.

Uh, but I think like a lot of cradle Catholics, um, There was a period of where I made idols of other things, uh, like a secular social life and sports and things like that when I was younger, uh, I sort of had a, uh, to Jesus, back to Jesus moment around 16 when, uh, And at least where I live, the, that's when we do confirmation and a shout out to Cardinal DiNardo for confirming me. And, uh, I had basically a reversion, um, that kind of had a spark ignited for my love of my faith.

Um, and that was just a spark and it definitely needed kindling. Um, and, uh, I think that it burned pretty small at first, but it kind of made me realize How really, truly important my faith was, even if it wasn't at the complete forefront of my life quite yet. I think God was preparing me for a lot bigger things as I know now, so many years later,

And there was so many times that I started to hit things, especially after 16, you then go in your senior year and you go to college and it's just this whole new life.

And it taught me a huge lesson in that pretty early on, um, where then God presented me with this wonderfully amazing, virtuous, Protestant man, uh, and kind of threw me through a loop, who is now my husband. Um, and I couldn't really have planned what God had in store. I couldn't have thought it, planned it, uh, uh, and I think that is really the beginning of where I really had to go. Okay. Part of my faith is actual faith. Just like letting God do it. And that doesn't mean I'm good at it.

It just means that I started to learn that.

And, uh, showed up at my door a couple of days later, asked me to lunch. That was our first date. Uh, and after having gone through sort of this period of time where I was by myself, I was single. I had broken up with that Catholic guy who God was calling to be a priest. And we didn't know. And I had been on a lot of dates, like first dates. And I was really tired of dating. the feeble, where I wanted to weed out the fray.

And so I started having this, um, this thing that I would do where on first dates, I would really just kind of tell them exactly who I was. Uh, which is just meaning I would work in that I was a devout Catholic that, uh, I felt very called to marriage, not necessarily to the person that I was on a date with, that I wanted lots of children. They would be raised Catholic and at the very, you know, end with the kickers that I wasn't going to be sleeping with them unless we were married.

For to kind of feel this out where I was like, okay, wow, I didn't expect this. I'm going to see what happens. I'm just going to trust God because, uh, that doesn't mean I'm like full blown going into marrying this guy. It just, let's see what happens. And after a couple of months, I realized I, and this is sort of a side note, Prior to that I was getting really, just being a brat of God, um, I was just like, where's my husband? Freshman year of college. Uh, so

I realized I started writing to my husband that I was dating and I was like, Oh wow. Okay. So that's, if that's what's happening now, then I need to take this seriously. And so really dived in pretty quickly. It wasn't like a, I don't want to scare him away thing. I was like, well, if this scares him away, then he's not the guy who God wants me to be with. And so we jumped in pretty quickly and it wasn't all at once. Um, you know, I talk about it on my, uh, my page a lot.

I have a highlight called interfaith and I put up most of the conversations that we have, where there are questions that I would ask him, like, If you're married to a Catholic woman, and we have a Catholic marriage, and we have Catholic children, what does that look like?

My were, um, my italian catholic dad was married to my baptist mother for three years and then she converted and then My dad has six brothers and sisters and so similar things happen in those my godparents who are my aunt My uncle were in an interfaith marriage, um up until he was about 55 and then he converted Uh, and so I had a lot of these instances where it was Was very ecumenical and I could see that it could work, but I wanted to make sure that there was also instances that I'd seen where

people would marry someone that was Protestant thinking, Oh, it's all the same. We all love God and it's not that different. And we do all love God, but it is pretty different. And I wanted to make sure he was consenting fully to everything that that meant so that there was no surprises when children came along because that wouldn't be fair to our future children. Um,

And I think it's so good for women who are in the dating world to hear this because I think often, uh, there is, a tendency or a like Desire to kind of tone it down a little bit to kind of tone down how catholic we are or tone down like what our expectations or what our standards are just to see if it'll work out like just to see if We could like make it work or stick it out a little bit longer.

And I think what you said was so Filled with truth of like if it's gonna scare him away, then he's not the one so don't prolong The hard truths that might scare him away because that might Just be what gives you the answer on if this is your husband or not. Um, so I think that is just a wonderful thing I wanted to point out and just say that that is so brave of you and so good. Um, and I'm excited to hear like what, what was his response were and what those conversations were like.

And I just think, I always think of St. Catherine of Siena because, and St. Joan of Arc, those are just women that I look to so much when it comes to being. The women that are like, well, I don't want him to reject me. And these women were bold and they were warriors for God and they did not, they weren't quiet.

One of them told off a Pope, you know, and so it, it definitely speaks to this nature, um, of us to be scared of rejection, but to really ask the Holy Spirit for conviction in these areas that they're not rejecting you, they're rejecting God in that sense. Because, that is something we need to really, I think, as women, focus on because it is, it's hard to say I don't want to be rejected.

Because I didn't mean I didn't feel that way, but I was more convicted that, that if he was going to love me, he was going to love all of me. And part of my, that is my fate. And so when I bring up all these things and he says, okay, never really, met a hardcore Catholic before, what does this even mean? And, uh, which has been on par for most times, most of the cases with a lot of Protestants.

It's like the Pope and Mary, but really for my husband, it was very different because he wasn't really disillusioned by a lot of anti Catholic rhetoric. It was more of just, you know, Yeah, I've heard about Catholicism, but I've never really met anybody that's hardcore Catholic. So just what's up? And so as I explained things, birth control is a big thing. That's something he'd never heard before. We went through Humanae Vitae. We talked about theology of the body.

Um, St. John Paul II is just one of my best friends and helped me so much in that process of really getting him to understand that marriage is a sacrament. the church and that it's a gift to each other. And, uh, that really, you know, it took him a little bit, but as we went through all those documents and it was, that's the beautiful thing about our church is that it's really not just like, well, because the church says so it is a lot.

It's a lot of beautiful, intelligent, writings from people that when you look and read them, they just make sense from not only a spiritual standpoint The creation of man, but also just like how society works well, you know, in societies where there is, uh, you know, they, what's the mark of a good society. It's like a healthy family unit. You're like, interesting. Cause that's not, you know, those studies aren't based off of religion.

It's just kind of where they studied these different societies throughout the world. And they see, you know, That the family unit is a really big part of this thriving society. And so through these beautiful documents that our church gives us, and these writings, and these saints, I was able to kind of show my husband, uh, how As we went through each topic we had issues, I would on that topic and put it aside and then we move on to the next one.

And so once we had this sort of like group of topics, we then really started to dig in because he had to say yes to everything. It was sort of a, there was no like, okay, I'm cool about all this stuff, but maybe we do something different with birth control or maybe we do two different churches. And it was like, no, is me. This is what I want. And each conversation that we had, it was a really dig into challenging him.

And his, and not challenging his faith as like, what do you have to prove this and debate? It was more that, do you see what I'm showing you? Are these things going to lead us and our children closer to Christ or further away? And the ones that he said, well, I think maybe further away in this one, we would then dig into it so deeply that then you would see that, you know, for instance, Mary. It's really hard to, to see how Mary doesn't lead you closer to Christ once you really dig into her. And

It was very hard and it was tedious and I'm not going to say that it wasn't. It was, you know, we, it wasn't something that weighed on us, but it was something that we took seriously. We wouldn't, you know, spend every second doing this, but as we went through, I made sure it was really important that, I mean, we dated five years. Um, and granted that had something to do with us being so young, meeting at 19, but it still was really important to where he had to agree, he had to fully consent.

And I, I love that he spent that time because I had some friends that husbands were just like, yeah, sure. It's fine. Whatever, whatever. And then they got married and had kids and they had a kid and then it started to come up then. And that makes it way more complicated and difficult because here you are married and they're, you know, if you don't believe in divorce, then there's really no other way. And so it's, it's the cross is heavier that way.

So if anyone, you know, is discerning that I would say, focus on those things, um, and make sure you're willing to walk away.

And then when you get married, Things start to come up where he starts to kind of be like, actually, I don't agree with this anymore. Um, so talk to us kind of like what that's been like now that you're married, what is your faith life, uh, in your marriage and in your family and that day to day life and how are you guys kind of, yeah, coexisting in your two faiths under one roof in a marriage?

Oh, well, you kind of missed the part where you could prep.

So, um, have thousands of Catholic books, you know, um, from, you know, the YouTube channels that for, for kids, Catholic stuff to all of the incredible books that they have to the saints of life podcast. Shout out. Love them.

And I think that's really important when it comes to an interfaith marriage that, um, You keep inviting your spouse, whether or not they want to participate. Um, my husband is always really supportive of participating. He is just, he was dedicated to, this is a family thing. This isn't like a, you guys do this and I'm over here thing because. You know, Christianity is the, you know, the family is really important. And so, you know, we pray at meals together every meal.

Um, we spend time reading the Bible with our younger kids and then our older kids when they get home in the evenings, uh, we, prayer is really huge because it's one thing that. It's really uniting, right? So no Protestant is going to be like, ah, no, I'm cool on the prayer. It's like they're, they have really beautiful prayer lives. And,

Uh, luckily my husband is very open to, you know, he's a, he's a huge stoic and really into philosophy and he understands, uh, the nature of these prayers that we have. Or, um, he, he knows the words, he notices the words that there is nothing incriminating the Hail Mary because it's in the Bible. So he, he doesn't, uh, withdraw his logic when it comes to understanding the Catholic faith. It doesn't mean he has to believe it yet.

He understands that this is something he agreed to, and he can still support our children and me in these things. So it's really the day to day prayers. Um, these days are really big in our family. I am not, uh, crazy about it. I love that people that are, but I focus on my children's saints. Our saints and then the big feast days, uh, in the church that, you know, holy days of obligation, all that. Um, and we kind of come together as a family and what they used to do back in the day.

I mean, we feast. We have special days where we have treats and we talk about, you know, what this feast day is about, and we pray together as a family for the things that, um, are on our hearts at the time. So it's really not a whole lot of, uh, strategy as much as it's just, we agreed that we would go to church together on Sundays. Uh, he does that. Um, and we pray before bed and we have a great community that we built.

Does he also go to a Protestant service or is he kind of counting that as like his worship time as well? Yeah.

love God, they still love to pray, and there's, they've noticed differences that they talk to me about. I let it come up naturally, because there's really no reason when I, I have a nine year old all the way down to a eight month old. And so at these ages of formation, I want to make sure that I'm focusing on unity and truth, not just truth. Um, because the unity part has to do with me doing building blocks is what I call it.

And it's building blocks of them asking me questions and me having appropriate answers that are still true and still provide the truth of the Catholic faith without really diminishing and demeaning, um, another person's faith in general, because I will, you know, I can still say that our faith is true and that this is true and that it is lacking in somewhere else because I can, you know, as Pope John Paul II says, we can recognize truth and the goodness in other faiths, because it's still, truth

is not subjective. In another faith, if someone says that murder is wrong, and then they're wrong about everything else, we can go, Well, yeah, murder is wrong. That is true. That is not wrong, just because someone that I disagree with everything else on said it. And so it comes to this critical, very important critical, uh, thinking when it comes to our faiths and other faiths, is that we'll pass a church. Oh, that's where our friend so and so goes. How come they don't go to our church?

And how can we don't go to that church? And I'll say things like, well, in that church, they love God and they, they hear his word, just like our church. However, they don't have the Eucharist. And they said they don't. And I said, no. And that, that's really, that really is sad, isn't it? That's why it's really important in our faith to share with other people about the Eucharist. And if they don't understand it, that's okay. It's not really easy to understand, but we still need to share it.

And we still need to know that it's true. Little bitty building blocks when they get older and they ask, I'll have a little bit of a different answer with a little bit more mature wording, right? But it's all about sharing in the unity of God. They all believe in God, the father, God, the son, and God, the Holy spirit. And here's where we agree. And here's where maybe they have something that they haven't heard yet.

And so because of that, not really all about, cause people have asked, well, have you told them that the church is the true church? Well, I don't really need to do that yet because we haven't really gotten to the reformation

He, I offered him when we were in college, I said, we can go to my church and then go to your church if you want. And he came to the Catholic church and came to Mass and he goes, Oh, I've never been. They read from the bible like three times and I was like, yeah,

And when I dived in, I loved all of the things the Catholic church has from encyclicals, uh, to papal bulls to the catechism to, you know, it, it was just so full of more information than I could ever get through in my lifetime. And that was beautiful to me because it just meant I can, I can keep growing and that there's never an end. And that, some people don't like that. I love that. I love that I'm never going to be this fully full adult Catholic.

I'm always going to be this growing teenager that's grasping for information and, and, and teachings and wisdom. Uh, because if I, if I'm at the end, then I'm in heaven. Yes.

There's literally an endless amount of writings and teachings and, um, saints and just resources to continue to grow in our faith so that we can continue to mature in the spiritual life and prepare ourselves to be saints. And yeah, kind of this like ever knew, like, there's so many, um, possible. Like points of like reversion in our faith life because of that. So you can keep going. Yeah.

If you read the Bible every year, if you read the Bible every year, then you're going to find something new every single time. And I think that early on when I, I had this, you know, and it's a beautiful, I want to speak to those people that are going through that, that are in it, having this hat, holding this heavy cross that. You feel a heaviness. You want to share in that fullness of church with your spouse. And that desire in and of itself is.

So holy and it's so beautiful, but how we go about it is the part where people, we start to kind of falter and I, I was, you know, I did the same thing. It was like, you know, after, after children, um, we have five now, but at the time I only had three and I was dead set on proving him wrong, like by facts, like, look at this and apologetics. And did you read this? And what do you think about this first? And it, okay.

Always resulted in, uh, not only in creating distance between my husband and the Catholic church, but creating distance between my husband and myself. And it wasn't until I had a deeply spiritual encounter about two years ago. Um, uh, with Christ in the Eucharist and adoration where I witnessed an elderly veiled woman prostrating herself in front of the Eucharist. And it just was like the most moving experience ever. I realized that I needed to start differently.

I need to start acting like Christ is alive in the Eucharist. Like, I need to go visit him more because I was going to adoration, but. It's bodily. And so, um, I started attending adoration weekly and I just started pouring my heart out to him. And then it wasn't so much like, give me this, convert my husband, do these things. Although those things are fine to share because God wants to hear our hearts. started saying, I am your servant do with me what you will.

And it was even like, it's hard for me not to cry when I say it because it was so scary to say. I couldn't for so long because I knew that if I said it he would do something, you know, like,

I'm going to keep saying it, but this, The most incredible thing happened was after going to adoration for about six weeks, I went twice a week then I can only make it once now, but I do think it's a great practice that I started to feel just amazing piece wash over me and it wasn't me clicking in my head, like me being like, okay, cognitive behavior of therapy. I figuring that it was, it was like, yeah, it was God. And it was one of those things. I can't explain it.

I've always heard people talking about it where I'm like, yeah, okay. Um, but it, it, it was like a warm water, like washing over me that just like itself deep into my soul. And it was God saying, focus your attention on catechizing your children and loving the Lord with that warmth that only a mother can bring from and connecting us their faith and your children. And then look to the saints and learn how to love your husband to the best of your ability.

Like. Not loving him so he'll become Catholic. Just loving him to the best of your ability. And when I did that, I started really the way I was encountering him. I forgave more. I was patient more. I wasn't pressing him. And man, did he, God was doing his work in that way. Um, through me backing off, which I was like, of course, like, that's what it took. Okay. Um, and I saw a change in my husband. I did. I saw, um, you know, softening.

And I think that that's just probably one of the most important things that I would share with people that, focus on the softening and stop hardening your heart because that is not what brings people to our faith.

And, um, I've, I have found that when we surrender to God, these things that we hold so tightly to these things that mean so much to us, cause it's not, it's not a little offering that you did that you, that was big of like, Lord, I give you my marriage, my husband, my deep, like good and holy desire to convert him and to help him find the fullness of truth. Right.

Those are all big things that you are not letting go in the sense of like, Oh, like it doesn't matter anymore, but just like handing to the Lord and being like, you lead,

Because even, even if it's something where we didn't listen and, you know, as a, as, as a mother, like you see those things with your kids, and it's such a beautiful lesson from our father because he takes instances where we didn't listen and he still creates good out of them. So even if it was something you didn't choose, if maybe you're a Protestant married to another Protestant and you converted and you're just like, why would God do this? I don't, why did he make me Catholic sooner?

Why won't he make me a spouse Catholic or a reversion? It's all about using those instances where you feel like you know what you should do instead of asking God, like you just said, like, what should I do? And instead of going, Oh, well, I feel like this is a good, it felt good to debate him. It felt good to go, Oh, I'm, I'm proving something. But the hard thing was actually stopping it.

And now it's not hard, but, but like you said, like, it was this sacrifice, but it initially wouldn't have felt like it. It would have felt like the wrong thing if I hadn't gone to God and said, like, let's, I want, I want to know what your plan is. I had my plan and I thought it was your plan, but now I'm actually going to ask you what your plan is.

What are some like of the common objections you feel like people say? To you when it comes to an interfaith marriage, and how would you respond to them? How do you kind of deal with these conversations of people that are on the other end that are like, no, you should only marry a practicing Catholic if you're a practicing Catholic. Like, how would you respond to them?

Are you just supposed to ignore those people? Am I supposed to just say that those people don't exist and to just like step over them and pretend like these people aren't struggling and need love in our church and just go, well, if you messed up, sorry about that. Cause that's how a lot of them acted.

Where it's like, well, you know, and a lot of them made it sound like, well, you can't possibly be holy if you're not married to a Catholic, you cannot be, and you know, and then that was my favorite line, because then I would always bring up, The saints and those who came before me that went through things like this.

And, um, I think that a lot of times when I would bring those things up and not to mention also that speaks on a variety of topics, that is the, another, we talked about before the beautiful. Uh, writings and all the things. Our church has been around for 3, 000 years. This isn't the first time someone has been like, can I marry someone that's not Catholic? And so they have instruction. There's literally, um, uh, instruction matrimonium mixa, which is like instruction on interfaith marriage.

And you can go read it on the Vatican website right now. And it talks about everything that I've already said, which is that like, it is hard. You're not going into something easy. I knew that. So I consentingly, willingly went into this knowing this is going to be hard. Um, I prayed on it. Uh, we talked about all the things, you know, that I talked about. So, Um, after I reading that it does talk about the sanctity of marriage still too.

It's still a sacrament and you still have things you need to do in order to, uh, you know, follow the church's guidelines on how to keep your marriage holy, uh,

Monica. You know, like, uh, she ha she created a saint, not, not just like, you know, she birthed a saint, um, and she was a saint and she was married to, uh, you know, a man that was not necessarily easiest guy to, to be married to Um, and I highly encourage those who are listening to this to look up St. Monica to make her one of your really good friends. Um, because she's the one of the patron saints of. Uh, mothers of difficult children and husbands,

We're not in control of them. They're gods. And so all we can do is do our best in instruction and pray. And I think St. Monica shows us that quite a bit. Um, but one of my favorites is blessed Elizabeth of Luzier. Now she's not a saint, uh, but. She is like become one of my best friends because she is a very profound example of love and patience and an unwavering faith when it comes to interfaith marriage. Her husband was Felix and he was an atheist and he was not the nicest person.

He teased her a lot about her faith

Um, and I'll just like read a part of her diary because it's just so helpful for those that are looking for some resource to go and just, you know, sit with them in this saint can, you know, bless. She's a blessing. I don't know why. We'll see what happens with her sainthood, but she can sit with you in this, um, this heartache, this heaviness, this cross that you have. Um, and you can read her diary because This amazing ending the story.

Um, she says, I wanted to tell him above all that faith and the Catholic religion have made me completely his more than I could have been. Otherwise, they have enabled me to understand him and to love him more. And this is her talking to her atheist husband. Right? And somebody might read that out of context and just be like, wow, that's amazing.

sounds weird, but she, it demonstrates that despite the vast difference in their belief, like, she saw that God was asking her to love this man who didn't even love God yet, and in a way that, that encouraged him later on, she passed away, and then he finds her diary, and he reads all of it and realizes how deeply she loved him.

And his hazard diary and is converted in the process. And so even after her death, the Holy Spirit was working through her. And so there were these, these, these. documents, these saints, these people's lives. I show these people that try and come at me with these convictions that interfaith marriage is unholy or that people that are in it cannot be holy or become saints.

I just slam it right in their face because they could not be more wrong and they could not be more misguided in the Uh, way that they are looking at our Catholic faith.

Um, how has your own faith deepened and evolved in this process of being married to someone who is of a different faith?

And I just appreciate that so much from her because I did it. And I would say for the first three to four weeks, I just sat there. I was like, okay, I have to be here for 30 minutes. It's been 15. I already said all the prayers. What do I do? And I'm telling you that when I saw that woman, probably about week 5, I was just moved to tears. And I thought, what am I doing? I'm sitting in front of the Eucharist here. And I'm acting like it's this like magic eight ball of like, here's my prayers.

Okay. I wasn't acting like I was, Jesus was standing in front of me like this woman who was prostrating herself on the ground in front of lots of people, not caring whatsoever to the extent to which like she was very old, we had to help her up. And so it was, it was so moving her humility, her conviction. And I just like, thought, what am I doing? What I'm, I'm here every day and I'm not, I am not pretending. I mean, I'm pretending and I'm not acting like that is Christ in front of me.

What would I do if Christ was in front of me right now? And I was like, I probably would be on the ground like that. And so I started going with this. Just, I read, um, Frank, uh, St. Francis uh, the devout life and reorganized my way, the way that I prayed and I started to really go in there as a way to worship instead of like I'm going to go to adoration to ask for all the things, you know, like sit on Santa's lap. I think that I was doing that like, God, please do this. Please do this.

Instead of. Going in and just worshiping him and pouring my heart out to him. Yes. But, but mainly going in there first and foremost and being like, that's God. I'm going to sit in for 20 minutes of the first part of my adoration and thank him for all of the things, because I'm kind of feeling down about my life right now. So once I, and it's a great practice in general, and I did those things and then I would pray for other people.

And then I would surrender myself and then I would say, here are the desires on my heart, God.

God's punishing them or maybe they did something wrong or maybe like, you know Maybe if I learn my lesson quick enough that like God will take away this pain But I that once we realize we surrender to these beautiful sufferings And I didn't understand that about the Catholic faith for so long My my interfaith marriage has been such a beautiful cross for me because it drew me to him I needed him more than anything and once I did have him it made Every cross lighter, you know, he took the yoke and

I think that that is the beauty of these crosses that we get. Whether it's chronic illness, whether it's interfaith marriage, whether it's infertility, like you have witnessed in your own life,

But last night we were in like our, we have a monthly married friends group that meets once a month. We rotate dinners and we like read a marriage book together. Yeah. And so we were discussing prayer last night and we're like, how's everybody's prayer doing? And so many of us were like pretty bad. And one of them, it kind of like the consensus was like, okay, maybe the consistency is there, but the quality feels like it's not there. And so we were like, what does that mean?

Like if we're consistently going to prayer, but it feels like it's The quality is bad. Like, why is that? And some of us were talking about, like, I just feel like we pray for the same things. Like we go into adoration and we say, please, Lord, can please, Lord, please, Lord, please, Lord, for those same things that we're always praying about. But what you said about like, what about that space? literally to just worship. What about that space to just sit with the Lord? That's prayer too.

And I feel like that's so important to know those first few weeks before you saw your therapy or going to adoration before therapy, where you were like, I was just really sitting there. I feel like that is so much more valuable than we think because we're constantly talking out of our ears. We're constantly consuming content and words and opinions, and even like what to in prayer and all these things were like, maybe the Lord.

Actually could do more work if we just sat there and received him and force ourselves to do nothing, which I think is really hard for women. It's really hard for us women.

All right Well, you know it took those it took the great I mean, you know You can't sit in front of our Lord and Savior and nothing happens.

Is, like, there is going to be something that happens if that person keeps going and sitting in front of God, even if they don't know it's God. And that is the power of the Eucharist.

I mean that and not like just reading their diaries and seeing what happened to them. I mean, Ask them to pray for you. They, they have this, they have the ear of God in heaven and they've been through what you've been through. And so when they pray for you, it is powerful. And so if you make them your friend and you, you share with them all the struggles you have too, they will, they will help lessen that load by asking God to help you. And that's powerful.

We know that because that's in the Bible, that the prayer of those righteous people is powerful. So utilize that as a Catholic, um, and dedicate time. Like we just talked about the power of adoration and the Eucharist. A lot of people sleep on it, and I'm telling you, I wish I had known earlier on in my marriage how powerful that would be.

Focus on prayer with your, your Protestant spouse focused on unity and per title like your God specifically asked you to learn how to love that person to the best of your ability and to, and that's your, that's your vocation right there. It's to do that and that's not through forcing them. It's through loving them in their own love language. It's only specific to you and your spouse. I would have no idea because I don't, I'm not married to your spouse. So that is your challenge.

And your goal is to find those things and do it, learn how to live out Ephesians in the proper manner. that doesn't mean submitting to sin, just means learn how to love better.

So Openly about your experience and just sharing the good and the bad and how it strengthened your faith and just everything you shared, I feel like was so personable and just beautiful to hear your experience so openly. So thank you so much.