Interview with Tracey Cole - Equestrian Focused NLP Coach Practitioner

Hi Tracy would you like to explain to everybody that don't know what NLP is what you do and then go back in time and just explain how you got to where you are today.

It would be something very accessible to anyone that wanted to learn about the mind and help the mind to work for them so that you don't feel that your mind is in charge, but you're in charge of your own mind. Because very often we do think that we're at the mercy of our thoughts or our emotions and it's actually the opposite way around.

We do control our thoughts and emotions ourselves, even though it might not appear to be that way, but NLP helps you and it trains you to see that you can do that. You can sort of override your natural programming. So I got into it very much from an equestrian standpoint because I'd been competing very low level stuff. And, and that was probably part of my problem in a way that low level competitor, but getting so nervous, it was ridiculous. Absolutely so nervous.

I would be with my friend who is a professional rider riding for owners and she'd be cool as a cucumber, she'd be driving the lorry. So she had that to think about I'm just the passenger and I'm melting away into a ball of nerves and it made no logical sense to me, why was I the one that was so nervous about riding?

I was okay at home, fine at home or on lessons, I think it was the fear of making a complete fool of myself, that was it you know which I know a lot of people have, but if you're an amateur, you're a recreational rider, then it doesn't make any sense to put that amount of pressure on you because you get that pressure from work and other parts of your life. You don't need it in your writing.

So I remember The person I was talking about the professional rider Raylene saying to me, well, she said, I feel the same as you, but I call it excitement and you call it nerves and I never quite believed her. I do now I do now, but I thought they're miles apart, excitement and nervousness completely different breeds of animal, no relation whatsoever.

I could never understand how it as, can you be excited about this thing where you're performing in front of people and so many things can go wrong with you and the horse but I was determined to crack it, I was determined to crack my nerves and I started Googling and I started Googling rider, nerves and confident rider. And when you do that, lots of sites pop up things about breathing exercises.

Which, which I could do in my own lounge, I was jumpin metre a 50, but when it came to actually go out and do it, it just completely unraveled and I forgot everything and then it became a pressure, well, I'm not breathing properly. I need to breathe as well as everything else.

So I kept Googling and trying to do some research on it and I kept coming up with this NLP thing that I'd never, ever heard of and the name I have to say the name, put me off a little bit neuro-linguistic programming, it kind of sounds a bit like computer.

So I kept ignoring all of these sites that said NLP, because I thought, oh, I just, I don't know what it is, but I don't want to do it and then I read Pippa funnel's autobiography and anyone that's ever read it will know that she talks a lot about overcoming her nerves. And she talks about having NLP sessions. So, oh, wow. Gosh this thing that I've been avoiding, this is apparently what I should be doing.

So I started to look into it and I still was very skeptical about it cause it seemed to promise the world and I was thinking, I don't think it's going to do that for me, it might just take a bit of the edge off. I phoned a lady called Christine Dawson who works in Manchester and runs trainings and she happens to be an equestrian herself, although she wasn't running trainers for equestrians at the time.

And I was chatting to her about these nerves and, and she said, you know, come and do a training, come and do a practitioner training. And you'll be able to see that there's lots and lots of different techniques. So if one thing doesn't work, you can do something else, their dead quick their dead easy see, and you'll feel far, far different after the course, you'll feel so much more different from where you are now, you will eventually go out and be fine. And I thought, yes, I'm sure I know.

I thought but I thought if it could just take the edge off even just a little bit, I could accept a certain level of butterflies type of thing and that's what I thought would be my ultimate aim and I went and did the training and when you do the training you often go off into twos and one person pretends to be the practitioner and one person pretends to be the client, but you don't role play as such, you think of a real issue or challenge that you've actually got and the person who's being the

practitioner has a go and run through it with you. And so I did all my riding things and I kept feeling at the end of the day that something really shifted but the proof's in the pudding, obviously, what happens when you get on the horse? And I was really kind of testing this out because I kept thinking, but it can't be that simple. I can't go on a training, it was about five or six days long.

I can't just do that and then go out and ride and feel differently, even just a little bit less nervous, nevermind, full confidence but I did. And me as the ultimate skeptic were saying to myself, well, it's because of this training, this week, or I did the training today. It's sorta like carried me through, you get these kinds of buzzes it is don't you, when you do a training that you've really enjoyed and you're almost evangelical about it.

And I was a bit like that and I kept thinking, but yeah, when normality hits and I'm back at work and I've got my normal day to day running. I thought, any minute, now it's just going to flat. I'm going to lose this confidence. You know, it's not going to be something that's permanent, but I really didn't. I mean, you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't try and get your fears and nerves back but I really did try, really kind of tested it out.

And it was during the training in that I thought, do you know what, if this does work on somebody like me, I thought I had a really, really stupid mind. If it really works on me, it might be something that I could do maybe as a sideline. I could do evenings and weekends, I wasn't really thinking about a full business, just something interesting. So that's what I did initially.

I did weekends and the odd evening and I help riders very much around where I lived, I did the whole leaflets in the tack shops and the equestrian centers, because really, I didn't think about doing much, some social media. And I didn't think about things like Skype or anything digital. So it was very much people who were where I live in north Staffordshire and, and it started to gain a bit of interest. And I gave a few workshops and things like that. And I thought I really love this a bit.

I really like working with the equestrians I really get what they feel when they say they're nervous, whatever reason it is, whether it's cantering or hacking or whatever, it could be really high level stuff. I really understand, and I understand that absolute block that you have when you are nervous. And I understand that frustration because you want to kick yourself cause, you know, you can do better, it's like the shutters come down and the nerves start.

So eventually I decided, well, I think I'll go part-time in my job and do this part-time and then it expanded again and I left my job and now I do this full time. So it's been a, it's been a journey over several years, but I really do love it, I love what I do.

So that's a big achievement or really big achievement.

And it was, it was really nice. It was really nice to see that we were all very excited about what we were doing.

And like you said, it's not always common sense. If somebody has had a fall or something's happened and then they've got that on top of it, then yeah but sometimes it comes from no explanation. I mean, most horse people have a fall at some point and they get back home. But it can be to do with other things. My experience of NLP and some of the modules that a friend of mine used, she used me as a Guinea pig and I had a block just getting on my horse and my legs would be like jelly.

All the energy would just drain it and it was just horrible and doesn't matter what I did, I could not move this block and I had people come out to help me get on my horse, which was great and I got on her cause I needed to get a saddle so I had to get on her but I knew that this block was still there. And I've mentioned this in previous podcasts, so I'm just going to skim over the story, but basically I knew it wasn't to do with horses.

It was something stopping me moving forward but also through past experiences and to do with protection and my mom and things like that and so we got past this block and I remember going out to the field thinking I should be feeling nervous. And in my head I was thinking I am nervous but my legs are okay. When I got on Toots it's like, I've done it, I've done it. It was just sitting on it.

But it was it was funny because I thought that I should not be feeling this way because it's been there for so long. And it's not coming back to that that's dealt with, so it doesn't mean other things won't be present if I don't deal with things, but that part, and it wasn't to do with horse riding, it was super something else that block moved which actually helped me move forward in my personal life. So for me, the block was related to, I thought it was related to horses deep down.

I knew it wasn't, but it helped me move in lots of areas of my life which is fascinating. And I find that fascinating how your mind works, like I have conversations with myself and if I can feel anxiety or fear, I can feel something, an old pattern coming up, I'll say, okay, what's that telling me?

What, what is it and like the other day, I was absolutely fine and had really good few days and was out in the field and I was doing some poo picking, it was dark, I've got my head torch on and Toots came to have a tea and then she walked off and because of her heard moving away, she's been a little bit distance.

And she walked off and I go by Toots thank you and then all of a sudden I could feel this lump going over my throat and my stomach and I thought, whoa some things coming up and I literally just bent over the wheelbarrow and I was trying to stop this lump because I knew it needed to come out and anyway, it did, I started crying and I was thinking, what's that, what is she reflecting in me? What was she show me?

She's been a horse and she's doing what she needs to do for whatever reason, but it still has an impact and a reflection and something for you to look at within yourself. And first word that came up was abandoned and that sounds very, oh my goodness. But we've all had times in our life when something's happened and we feel lost abandoned or whatever. And it was the word abandon and I thought rejection and I thought I know where that is.

And then as soon as I acknowledged I know what that is, that lump went in my throat and I thought, okay and I felt fine. But obviously when you let the lid off something that's good, but other things start to come up and as they walked the field, there was emotions coming up, it was okay because I knew it needed to come up wherever this was.

And then the next day I was fine, but I, when you're in that moment, those few seconds, it's as raw and as real and as painful as you remember but you know, it's not real, it's not now, and it's not happening.

What it is is residue and that's how I explain it to myself that you're working with and this is what it's meant to do because when we hold things in and we bury things, that's when you get problems later on, which is the fear of getting on Toots it, it manifested into that from all this stuff.

Like you say it doesn't go away and it, it will continue to come out in whatever way it wants to do whatever way is going to grab your attention most and I think for their equestrians a lot of the time, exactly what you said, it comes out in your riding but the root of it isn't riding or horses at all.

It's often completely different and I find that with my clients as well, this is a very important part of any equestrians life and the horses are everything and very often the horses are where you go for your leisure time for your relaxation, for your therapy.

But that's almost like, I mean, I'm sure you recognize these in your own clients that's where it comes out, that's where the negative emotion, the fear, the anger, the frustration, whatever it is, that's where it tends to manifest and so then people contact me saying, well, you know, I've got this fear now of cantering or jumping or whatever it is, but sometimes it really is that and sometimes it's completely disconnected and it's about finding out what that root cause really is and exactly what

you do. I would help the client to try and find out what the mind is trying to tell them that could be a piece of advice that was out of their awareness that they missed maybe when the original event happened or a life lesson, it could be as profound as that and once they get that thing, just like you said, then the emotion goes and it disappears very often then, that's when they can handle their riding. So although we do different modalities, there's a lot of crossover isn't there.

Yeah I find it fascinating I really do so why don't you give us an example, so what happens if somebody is watching this or I listened to the podcast and they're thinking, okay, I could do with some help with, what should they be looking for? So if they don't know anybody in their area, what sort of thing do you do you advise them to look for?

If you go to a practitioner master practitioner who doesn't get hoarse, Then you spend a lot of time explaining and you don't want your session to be lots of explaining. So I would definitely go with somebody that understands horses and riders because otherwise I know people who've been to practitioners who don't know about horses, they might know about other sports, but they're sorta like coming at it. Well why did you persist in riding if it's making you feel bad?

I mean, it's a logical question, isn't it? You know, if you feel so bad and it's not your profession, it's not something that you use in to pay the bills. It's the opposite, isn't it. It's creating more bills. And it's making you feel bad, why bother. So I think an equestrian person is, is the one to look for. I would look for someone with an accredited certification.

So go on their website and have a little look around or contact them and just say, you know, where's your qualification from because unfortunately the industry isn't regulated in any way. It's all self-regulated. So anybody could call themselves an NLP practitioner, whether they've done a training or not. Anyone can call themselves a mindset coach, whether they've got something to back that off or they've got personal experience.

So I would really make sure that the person that you're looking at has got a qualification that comes from an accredited board of NLP for board of hypnosis or whatever it is.

And then what I would do is, most practitioners have some kind of discovery call or strategy, call, whatever they call it and it's usually free and it's 15 or 20 minutes and I would put one of those calls in with the view that you're not necessarily going to buy from this person, but you're going to find out if you're a good fit. And you just feel that this person knows what they're talking about.

They can outline for you a bit of a strategy for you, that's very personalized, you don't feel like you're, you're just going through the same old motions that every client gets and that you get a good feeling about this person, that you're at ease with them. There's a lot of clients don't really know what, NLPs or they don't know what hypnosis is. So they booked on because you know, for me On their last chance, saloon that they've tried everything else.

And so they haven't necessarily done a lot of research into what goes on in an NLP session or a hypnosis session. They're just like wave that magic wand please, so they can be quite nervous. So I would say to people, if you don't want to do the research, you're stuck for time, or you feel like, you know, a friend of mine had this wonderful NLP session, I'd just want some of that. Make sure you have some kind of connection with that person when you're on the call.

You feel as though that person's really got your back and that they're really interested in you and they really want to help you. But more than that, they can tell you the steps that are going to take to help you. And it makes sense for you. It doesn't sound too wooly or that it plucked out to thin air or it's very generic, well we do this, this, this, and this for everybody that it's more personalized.

I was fine talking about anything, you know, nothing was off the table, it was fine because I knew if it was meant to come up, it would come up and things that don't need to come up or don't need to be delve into on that level, they wouldn't be.

My being,soul knew what I needed to do and and it was quite funny because sometimes she'd start to ask questions and I could feel my body getting uncomfortable and so I say, I know the answers that now because it's shifting, it's not happy, so you're getting to a spot where we need to be working.

So it was lovely because we could be open with each other, but I knew her, I knew my friend, Amanda but for somebody that doesn't know and it, and it's a little bit similar when I go see a client, the first thing I say to them is I put them at ease and I will say I don't read minds. I don't know your darkest secrets you know, it's not about that, I just get enough information to help you or your horse and to get you to see that or to know we're going in the right direction.

That's all I get, I don't need to have the whole story, the depth of it, you know, it that's what happens. So when somebody is that raw, there is that worry that what if I say something and I embarrassed myself or I'm ashamed of it?

It's it's really about, like you said, it happened that nice connection with somebody because that person you going to trust now, I know everything's confidential but it doesn't mean to say that person might be ashamed or scared or embarrassed to say something and they shouldn't do, obviously, because we've all done things and all things happening in life but it is that step isn't it and your head sometimes gets in the way, which is ironic cause that's what you're trying to solve.

And whether you will be able to share things and whether you do feel at ease, because as you say, it's not that it's a bad thing necessarily, but if you're very nervous or you're a little bit closed off, because not sure how much to share, and you're not sure whether you can ask questions during the session or you feel a bit silly asking about, well, why does this work and how does it work if you've got all of those things and you're working on your mind as well, you kind of got a bit of an

uphill battle, haven't you, but if you feel it sees with the person and you, you almost feel like, you know that even though you don't know them And you think, well, this is a safe space and highly confidential as you say, but I feel like I can offload a little bit. And if something comes up or I have a question or something isn't working or I can't do something, a lot of NLP is about visualizing things in your mind.

Well, if you're a visual person that is the easiest thing in the world, I mean, I'm not a visual person, but I know that visual clients, some of them say, well, it's just like seeing it in real life. And I visualize something it's kind of a bit gray blobs and it's rubbish. It looks nothing like real world. So let's say you did have a client who said, I can't visualize that. I can't see it then. They need to be able to say that, I got no picture.

I can't see very much and it's gray and it's blurry. And depending on what the practitioners do, and that might be fine. That might be the level that you need. But if they're doing something that is highly visual, it's nice to be able to say, I just cannot do that, my brain just won't let me do it. And then the practitioner can say, well, that's fine we'll do something else that doesn't involve you having that sharp definition.

But if you're like you say, if you're feeling little bit nervous and you're not sure if you're doing it right, and you don't feel like you can really say, I can't do it, then technique what work as well. You won't get your money's worth and you may or may not get rid of your nerves or doubts or whatever you're trying to alleviate. So that connection is really, really super important.

I think, I think in my line of work and in your line of work as well isn't it people just feel that they can just relax and they feel like they've known you for years within five minutes, they're like they're off, they're okay with you. They've had a bit of nerves before they're depressed, you know, to get onto the call on zoom or lift the phone or whatever it is. But then as soon as the session starts and like, oh, this is okay, I can do all of this, this is easy.

And that's the same for my clients, I relay any information that comes and some of it's from the animals, some of it's what I'm picking up intuitively it doesn't just come from one source.

It comes from all different angles and it's, sometimes it comes all at once and I have to decipher it and as I'm explaining one part, I've also got to sort of just put that on hold, so I can get that bit out for the next bit to flow through and also you're chatting with it with the client and you're communicating with the horse and you're observing the horse, you also Picking up on energetically, what the horses is saying to you.

So yeah, so there is a lot of crossovers because you'll be doing that with your clients and there'll be doing it with you even if they're not aware of it but it's very much them working with themselves. And that's what my clients do. They, they come to me sometimes, like you said, it's a last chance corral, or sometimes they just want to know that the horses are okay, they fine that they don't need anything.

Sometimes it's because it's that time of life and it's time to say goodbye and that's just as precious as the other visits for different reasons, but it's not like I go along and the owner's not even aware that's going to happen, they just need to know that they're doing the right thing. So most of it is confirming or highlighting but also empowering them to say, you did know this, you did see this because that's why you've got me out but you wasn't quite sure why.

And it's given them the tools to feel and sense and work with what they have and hopefully, I mean, I hope on my heart that when I go away, that's what I give my clients and peace of mind. Sometimes they'll say afterwards, I'll contact especially if it's quite a big session and there's lots of things that's past, I'll say, are you okay? And they'll go, yeah that's fine and the next day was different or they'd tell me what they've done.

So it is, it's lovely, but you must have a similar thing that they go away then thank goodness I am normal.

You might not be able to tap into it but it's your own mind that solves the problem. It's not the mindset coach that there might be suggestions along the way, but those suggestions could be rejected. There could be accepted, but it's very much that the, the practitioner, the coach is the person who's the guide and they're sort of guiding you to the answers that you already have for yourself. So, as you were saying that I was thinking, oh yeah, that that's exactly what I do.

So it's a bit deeper than NLP it's sort of a branch aside branch of NLP yeah, I try and people in those, so they can go off and be coaches, whether they want to be simple, let's say simply, but they want to be mindset coaches, or they might already have a business. They might already run a horsey business. So very often people are riding instructors and trainers. Or they may be physios.

So they've got some connection in their work to the horses and they want to add this on because the people that they see either they're teaching or that they're doing a lot of physio sessions people say, well, I want to be able to help these people further because I realize it's a question of mindset. I can see that they've got everything that they need. They just need a bit help with how they're thinking.

So that's really nice to train those people as well, because they're very much taking NLP and applying it to their own business.

I Explain it sometimes because this is the way it crosses over to clients, that once something happens, it got stuck in this position and it doesn't know how to reset itself. And actually this is coming through now, somebody is talking to me, actually, thank you, wherever that is and yeah, reset itself. So even though rationally, we might know that we know what to do, and we shouldn't be doing this, it can't do anything about it, that it can't because there's a gap missing.

There's something missing to enable that process. You put it in your language because you're the expert.

Those are going to help you, but the fear is often secondary to those. It may feel instantaneous and simultaneous but that's come in second and so some people would say that that fear, although it feels, it's horrible to feel it and when, once you're in a, like you said, it's very difficult to get out of and it doesn't serve a purpose, especially in modern day. Obviously a certain level of being sensible, especially as we are in a hazardous sports.

But as long as you have taken into consideration, all the usual risks and you have tried as much as you can to circumvent everything. Then there's no reason for that really, really high, high level of fear. And, and it does become a habit. Like you say, it becomes, okay, this is how we ride, we get on and then we have the butterflies and then we freeze and then get the mind fog and all the rest of it that follows and that becomes your pattern and your mind.

Unless you tell it to stop, we'll keep doing it because the mind is so quick at making associations, even our slow minds. I mean, we know horses make associations really lightning fast. If you've ever gone past a wheelie bin once with a horse and the horse, didn't like it at all. Remember that spot where the wheel we've been used to being but our minds do the same thing.

So our responses become lightning fast as well and it is just a patterning that needs breaking and if you're not sure how to break it, it will just continue. And this is where I was when I was doing those competitions that I was trying ever since, but nothing ever really stopped it because it was so powerful. So I needed to use something a bit stronger than like the breathing techniques or the bits and pieces of visualization that I was having to go at.

I needed something that got in there and stop that pattern so that there was a new pattern and, and that sort of what I was talking about when I said what I didn't realize and what a lot of people don't realize is that you're in control of all of this. It's not your mind, that's in control, it's you, that's in control of it. And you can override any of these patterns so long as you have the tools and you know what to do. You can get rid of these things.

Not now, it's just triggered this happened, that brought it forward now and you see it subside. That's an amazing, oh crikey. So once you, you get to know that about yourself. As you said, even if you can't get past something, you know there's a way it's not something you have to stay in.

It's not a place that you have to be in forever, that holds you back, that keeps you in that place that you don't want to be but it's finding the right person and the right tools, which is somebody like yourself, Tracy. So why don't you share about your horses? Tell us about your beautiful horses.

She started to go lane and then after rounds and rounds and rounds of different vets and physios and all kinds of people and experts trying to help me out still really didn't get to the bottom of the lameness because it was sometimes thought to be joints, so the times thought to be in the foots and the hoof and the, oh you name it. I think we've been through more or less every structure, soft tissue, hard tissue.

You name it so I didn't really ride her very much during that period, she's just starting to show soundness that it's actually got some longevity, so just after we spoke Ronnie I don't know what's the change I couldn't tell you but we seem to have got through the lameness. So I've just been walking around in hand and doing a bit in the school and groundwork. So I keep thinking about getting on her and then I keep looking at the weather.

But I will, I will, when I get a bit more time over Christmas, then I think definitely time to get back on. So she's, she's my older mare, she's 17 now. And then my younger mare is Darcy she's five at the moment and she's quite hilarious and complete opposite to Lottie she's only 15 hands, so she's a little one it's quite fine build. I mean, they look like Laurel and Hardy, they're really all very, very different and they're different personalities. Darcy is a proper princess.

I mean, she does not like mud, which unfortunately I'm afraid where I live, you've got to like mud or just lumping. You got to have look. But she, she is so funny, she's she's fantastic. So having lots of lessons on her, bringing her on but she she's really good. She is really very good. She's got a very quick mind. So if you want to do.

Nice circles for a session, you're just having a little poodle around the school, so do lots and lots of circles because she'll work it out and then she'll work out how not to do a circle just for my own entertainment, really. But she's fabulous. And she's the one with the old hat. She she's the sensible one.

She's the one that would never think about like when they come in with the five horses where I am and they're all in the field together and we bring them in at night and every other horse wants to come in first, apart from Darcy. Darcy just hangs back and says, well, come on, we'll get in there eventually aren't we say, you know, I'll just hang back scuffle about and, you know, have a, have a bit of a barge and all that. Yeah.

But yeah hopefully next year we'll get her jumping in that that will be a lot of fun, I think.

So if she hasn't got that, now there's a lightness, so she can move across the ground but it's almost like a feet a hovering in the ground when she's doing this particular move. Is that a piaffe, I'm not really on dressarge so I don't know, yeah so as you were talking, she was showing me that. She might have ideas as well as you, I will say I love was a show horse, so maybe she leans more towards some of them than her dad and ah.

So that starts in January, that says January the 10th, that we start practitioner training and I've also got I've written a course a business mindset course, which will be online. It's not necessarily equestrian, it's more aimed to people who've got small businesses and need to get rid of things like imposter syndrome and self-sabotage, and those feelings of overwhelm, all those small business, little nickels that would be really helpful to get rid of.

So that'll be online and that's going out in January as well. So January will be really. So that's something a little bit of a different direction for me, but I really enjoyed writing. It has been, it'd been loads of fun to write it and as I've been writing it up and thinking, well, this is one that I need to do as well. That's how to in January.

So if I do have some thing because life happens, I tend to use the techniques on myself. So I sorta coach myself, I think to myself, well come on what is needed here? What's really underneath all of this and I give myself a little pep talk and then I do some of the techniques with myself. So yeah that works. That seems to work for me anyway.

Take in money was a block that I had to clear which NLP and time I'm therapy help with that and I'm working on myself. So it's not the way it used to be, by any means, but you still have to keep a check on it. Cause it sneaks back in sometimes. But I find that really, really hard and then I also found it hard because I used to say, who wants to listen to me?

What right if I got to say, this is what I do and especially on Facebook, people would be asking her, do you know of her an animal communicator and all these names will pop up and one person is well known, they know about horses, that lovely person but I used to think, oh God, please don't contact me.

Don't put my name on and continue to have this and because I was focused on that, this name would always pop up because for me, I believe what shows you, you get more off because it's telling you something and it took her quite a while for that to go. And a friend who knows me and knows another person she used to say, you're just as good. You're, you're different, you bring something else. That person is as good too, but they bring their skill, you bring yours.

So she was really good to help boost my confidence and help me work on myself as well. I don't do that now but it's lovely when somebody asked him my name comes up and I don't comment because I believe the person will go to who they're drawn to. So I don't sort of jump in but I do notice it and I every now and then I'll put something on Facebook saying, thank you for the recommendations.

I do see I'm very, very grateful, but I don't comment because it's up to that person and if they want something, they will go and look. as I do. If I'm really interested, I will Google it and now if something pops up on my phone, I don't even question now I know that's LinkedIn to me because it show me that I don't have to go through lots of things. That was the first thing, so I'm trusting that's the right one.

So the imposter syndrome, when you said that, I thought yeah I had that big time, which I think a lot of people do.

That can be five people that do something could be a five of you in a row, but the person will go to whoever the, you feel connected and there's that invisible connection because you're the one that's going to help them, your energy is going to mix with theirs and that's how I look at it.

I don't see it as a negative if they don't come to me, they've got the right person the same as you can have a conversation with a stranger over a coffee or two bus stop, and they may get into a conversation with you and you'll walk away and you'll feel better. And that energy of that person,and you that there's just something changed. And it's about the unseen stuff sometimes. Because we tend to get hooked on what we visually see. Not so much now.

I think that's changing a lot because people are opening up to their intuition, the guidance. And like you said, the mind we can change that. We just need to know firstly that we can do that because people might not be aware of that, how to go about it and how to start. And it's up first step, that first little stack that takes you on to the next part and an amazing adventure I've learned about who you are. Which I love, I love it as much as, as working with horses.

I love having a relationship with me, which sounds a bit funny but I love that. And also sometimes people can have an issue or something's going on with them and they can maybe see somebody like yourself or they can chat to me like me or some somebody completely different and then this will reemerge later and they will think well, that didn't work. And I explained it to people. It did work but what happens is that was one layer and there's another layer.

It's not the same thing, it's something completely different but it feels similar and when you explain that to people, then sometimes they think, oh, okay, okay. Because if they get into that, while it didn't work, I'm not gonna try that.

It might have been that the connection, maybe wasn't quite right, or they weren't quite right or they weren't quite ready as much as they wanted it, cause you can say I do want to change, but something in you says, no you don't want to change and that's sometimes hard to explain to people, how do you get around that?

Exactly what you said it feels the same but it's not because you at a new level, so you're experiencing it again, but you're actually kind of gone up a level So when they say that it hasn't worked and you said it might just be, the timing was wrong or the connection wasn't there, or there was some reason why they didn't, for whatever reason, lose that emotional baggage or whatever they were trying to clear.

It, it can be a timing thing and sometimes people hold on to their problems and they can do this not on purpose, it's not conscious at all, it's outside of their conscious awareness but holding onto the problem because there's a reason behind it of more benefit for them to hold onto that problem at that time.

And it can be very, I mean we're talking quite kind of, woo woo kind of higher level stuff at the moment, but it could be something very, very down to earth that there could be that they almost get something out of having the problem. So whether that's a protection, a safety, you know, if I have this problem in my writing, so it stops me from getting on or stops me from doing what I think I should be doing, then I'm protected from it.

I don't have to do it because I'm scared and it makes me feel bad. So I'll step back and I won't do it. So this might just be that kind of advantage. I mean, we all know the person on the livery yard, wears these problems like a badge of honor, and they're doing the same thing in some ways. They're getting the attention from their problem.

So very often when I chat to people, if I recognize that in them and it's very delicate to say you're holding onto the problem or your mind is I sometimes depersonalize and say, you know, your mind is holding on to the problem because there's some benefit of holding on to it at this time. Let's, let's try and find out what that is. Find out whether that is a protection thing or something else. What are you gaining from having the problem?

Sometimes it's people are just so busy in their lives, they've got the home life, they've got families, they've got things going on at work. They've got this, that and the other, and it's all very, very busy. So the writing has to go on the back burner for a little bit.

So having that problem is kind of an advantage because then they, haven't also got to think about getting on the horse and riding the horse and schooling the horse and getting the horse competition ready and all the rest of it is just sort of like, oh, you know, that's one less thing off my list.

So sometimes it's a chats about, can you say the advantage that your mind and in a very clumsy way sometimes is keeping you nervous or keeping you away from your riding and just try and work through that a little bit.

I mean it's always down to our own responsibility anyway but it's not going to have a huge effect on anybody else. As long as Toots has what she needs, I would always say, does it matter that I go without but now I changed that because actually it does matter but that was my motto in the past. So that kept me there. It doesn't matter that I do with out, so I did go without as a lot of people do.

So for me it was moving forward and it's funny I mean, she's quite often lame, lame is a funny word, I mean it's that long or it's that long. There's no such thing as perfection the whole time, it just isn't but she would show me in her feet if I was really not pushing forward and I needed to push forward and I'd be focusing on her and It's me.

So yes, she would be lame but it would usually at the time when I needed to step into myself and take a step and stop hiding behind things and that was quite, that was quite hard at times because of the fear of lack of money, lack of this lack of that lack. So doing a lot of work on myself with the help of some good friends and really sort of really spending time looking at things. And then when things did change that gave me the, it does work, it does work.

Yeah that was something that had lots of different layers, but it also was about protection. If I fell off how would it earned me to work, who look after me, who look after my horse. I mean I've walked in my horse, it's taken me three hours to get there when I've had no car because I need to get to her and my friends would pick me up but yeah I walked three hours to get to my horse because she was not going to be left, I needed to get there.

So like you say, it's always them, that's more important and they are very, very important, but we need to look after ourselves because we need to be okay, so we can support and help them and have a freer life emotionally. Even if you don't ride your horses, it's about having that freedom to know you can change things.

So in some ways it was very sensible of your mind, wasn't it to bring that on best of intentions, perhaps not what you would want. And this is why I sometimes say the subconscious, the unconscious is quite clumsy and the way it delivers these things to us but there is a reason behind all this and the, and usually something that we can learn from and learn quite a substantial amount from as well.

Taking that step when you do, it's like, oh my God and it can be the tiniest thing, that tiny thing and you can be so excited and almost like you've won the lottery and you're telling other people and they're like, yeah, yeah, but it's your excite. And because it's your obstacle that you've climbed, it's your Mount Everest. And it means that much because you've done it and that's such a lovely feeling.

And if we could harness that and remember that, remember that feeling the next time we have doubts. And, and as you say, visualize that, bring that feeling with you, which is what I'm working with now. I have to feel it. So if I'm thinking about my future, if I'm thinking about something. The visualization is lovely, but without the feeling it as if you're actually there, it doesn't have the same, it doesn't have the same.

It's like watching a movie, the difference with the feel is you're in the movie. That's what you're aiming for to be in that movie. Not just see it, feel it, and you're there and when things happen, it's it's yeah. It's just lovely, it's just lovely.

It could be doing a bit of groundwork and to teach in your horse to turn on the forehand or something. And the horse is unsure what you mean, and you're not quite sure if you're giving the right signals and then it comes, you get a couple of steps that look beautiful. So I think it doesn't matter how you measure success, but those successes are they're wonderful arne't they. They're absolutely wonderful. And you do feel that you've won the lottery. In fact, it's better than that.

It's priceless, isn't it?

You stare at it and you're blinking normally and naturally, and you're just very comfortable and you're just looking at the spots and take them lots of information, this is just to give you an idea of the focused vision when you've really, really focused and homed in on the spot, and then you just relax your vision and you widen it and you widen it again and you keep going wider and wider. You're still looking at the spot.

Blink came very naturally, but the spots becoming a bit more de-focused because you're extending your vision, outwards, outwards, and outwards, and that then gives you that full impression that you're in that peripheral vision and if you can stretch your arms out, if you can stretch your arms out either side and you can sort of waft your fingers a little bit. Then you're in that lovely wide vision.

Then if you practice doing that, so you can get into wide vision and if you practice, when you're doing chores around the house or washing up or looking out, or anything walking along so that you can instantly go into peripheral vision. Try it on the horse.

Try it just in halt just when you get on for a few moments and try just walking around the arena, or if you're going down the lane on a hack and at first you might only be able to go 10 meters, 10 yards, and then you're out of it and then try and get back into it again. And, and what it does, you does it a really, really strange wiring of the brain that you can't fake in any kind of negative states. You can't think negative thoughts when you've got peripheral vision.

So you'll notice if, if you do get nervous or anxious or you have doubts or any other negative, your vision is probably gonna be a little bit more norrow it might not be fully narrow when you get riders that stare at the horses neck and they're nervous, they're in that very focused vision, which allows you to be as negative as you want. But if you can extend your vision out peripheral, you can't hold those negative thoughts and negative emotions.

So it's really nice to ride it in because it's a bit daydreamy is the kind of light vision when you're in a daydream. So it's softens everything and so the horse obviously responds to this because you're completely different. Your body physically starts to relax and your mind is starting to relax, but you're very alert to what's going on around you isn't that you are in this daydream you know, What's happening around you.

So if you are going out down the lanes, you can see the pheasent that's about to jump out but you're relaxed. So rather than being on high alert thinking, oh my goodness. When is that pheasant gonna jump pout? And as my horse seen it, and is it going to school and all the rest, you know about it, but you're relaxed about it, if it jumps out, it jumps out. I'm okay, I'll be fine. It's a really nice way to ride.

It just takes that practice because we're not used to spend in extended time and peripheral vision, but it is a lovely thing to do and you can be, you could be doing your dressage, you could do flatwork, you can do jumping any style of ridding it's nice to be in that peripheral vision.

So it's similar but I quite often, for other reasons, gaze longingly something, sometimes it is a daydream actually but Hey, that doesn't matter. I'm not riding a horse or driving at the time, so that's okay. It is lovely, but it's something you practice that but I do it intuitively and instantly now, because that's how my mind works when I'm connecting with, with horses and people.

It's been lovely chatting with you, Tracy really, really lovely is so interesting but it isn't just about horses is it? So the work that you do doesn't just affect the person and the horse relationship. It has a bigger impact on people there with get impact on their work, their friendships, their relationships. It's not just one dynamics that it affects.

It's like this ripple effect The techniques specific equestrians that tailored a little bit, that you could go and then take them and use them in different parts of your life. So you can use them at work. You can use them in relationships or home life. And it very often that people do that. But also, like you say, if you have a sesssion sometimes something clicks in other parts of your life as well.

Even though you have come to clear up a ridding problems that it just has this little knock on effect with something else that just is really lovely by-product really. I think people are quite surprised by that, they'll say, well I'm a student and I've been able to study better but how did that happen? Because I came to you about hacking down the lane. So it's very nice that all these associations get made and you can search out quite a lot using the NLP and using the session.

Is really nice to see people getting on and, and I suppose it's good value for money that it's

I can understand why now, because there's more similarity. Then I probably realized before, which is lovely, which is probably similar to lots of areas of work, especially with horses. It crosses over lots of things cross over. If you'd like to say bye to the viewers.

Take care thank you and bye for now. Bye.