Interview with Michelle Scully - www.titaniumcowgirl.com

She did have an accident 12 years ago, but I'm gonna let her explain a bit more about that and that set her on her journey of self-discovery and understanding of how to move forward. But that says very little about at the experience. So what I'm gonna do is bring Michelle in, she can introduce herself, and then we'll go from there. Hi Michelle. Welcome.

My new horse true, two dogs, a cat, about 800 deer that cruise around through our barn. We live in the oak woodlands of California, so it's, it's very beautiful. We also have the worry of fire danger now in summers. And I grew up in a rural area and have loved horses ever since I was born. My family had horses briefly when I was little, but I was always the one begging to be around horses and so I've managed to carry that through my life. I went to uc Davis as an undergrad to study.

I had hoped to go to vet school, but I had too much fun and skied too much, and my grades. very in the middle. So I did not go to vet school. I did go back to grad school later and studied biology. So my dearest love of my heart is animals and like you said 12 years ago. So I've pursued some relationship and access to horses for most of my life. And since I've been married and a mom, I've had horses for most of that time and 12 years ago end of January, I had an accident.

I had been out riding my mayor whose name is Wish, and we were doing great and everything was lovely and then she noticed something in our meadow that was new and it really took her mind and her thought away and it was getting near a dusk, it was becoming dark. And I knew that she wasn't with me, but I ignored that.

And then when she was willing to give me a bunch of speed, I thought, this is great, because normally I have to really encourage her to give me some speed, which should have been my second clue. And then a rabbit ran right through her legs and she went up in the air and sideways and in my infinite wisdom of the moment I decided I should bail off of her. And I landed on my back and heard this giant pop. And turns out that I had a burst fracture, so the big vertebrae, the l one of my back blew up.

I could actually hear it, I think things send you into shock and I just thought, well, I better get home. So I flipped myself over and crawled up the hill, got my horse, put her away, crawled into the house and it turns out I should have done none of those things because I could have ended up paralyzed. But fast forward 12 years later I can walk and I can ride.

It was quite a journey when who you are gets blown up, and in my case it was literal and my book, I ended up writing a book called Broken Tales of a titanium cowgirl and the titanium part as all the replacement parts they put in my back. But it was the journey of what do you do when you run into the wall of life? And I call it the black sharpie line moment. You know, a black sharpie, do you call them that in the uk? Those pens. Yeah. So you make a mark with the black Sharpie.

It doesn't go anywhere. But what came to me was we all have black sharpie lines in our life that divide before and then what comes after and so my first book was basically my journey of what I did, what I experienced when my life got flown up, and when I had to figure out how to put myself back together.

I could live forever without having a dog and I can't imagine my life without a dog. So what makes up me, what makes up Ronnie? What makes up Mona?

What makes up my friend Crissi but when something traumatic happens, I think in my case I use the example of like when a mirror breaks, I think we have this sense of we have to put that mirror back together, like us back together, the old us and when it's been a significantly traumatic experience, you don't necessarily have the opportunity and hopefully maybe at some point you realize I don't need to put myself back together just exactly the way I was but maybe there's new insights, new ways.

My husband and I are both super independent people and our joke is like, if there's a zombie apocalypse, it's like we're good, like call us. We've got this. But we both have relied a lot on we can do this, you know, in farming you have to do so many things yourself. And I'm a scrappy person anyway. So that sense of independence and kind of an overreliance on being able to physically and mentally do things and when that's, that landscape is shifted dramatically you can get lost in it.

You know, so many people do get lost in it and in my case, it was physical, but it also broke my, my mental concept of myself. And so I had to figure out who am I without with having to be vulnerable and who am I with having to feel weak when I do things, and who am I with? Having to like go slowly when I'm used to going quickly. And it was a, it was a process and the thing that really got me through it, for me, my faith is something that I stand on.

But for me, just living where we live and the small thing, seeing the animals go through their cycles of life, no matter what, the good, the bad, the ugly, the birth, the death the cold, the storms, the sun, the heat they just keep on trucking. And there were so many small joys around me, just things that I was forced to slow down and see.

like the little birds raising their family or the new fawns born or looking forward to when the daffodils bloomer, the cicadas come in May things that I was like flooring it and too busy to look at a lot of those things, those things all added up to give me a new sense of maybe my place in things, if that makes any sense.

Because she says you are a different person. And I was amazed when somebody's had brain damage that some of the things she was talking about, like the memory where she was in the shower and she thought she, she was, been there five minutes.

Yeah. And she could laugh at it now, but if that was more aware to people that haven't had a brain injury, then you can appreciate what people may be going through and it doesn't mean that you pity them, but you have more of a, a compassion and when you're having a conversation with them. So I've learned quite a lot about through her experience. You sound like you live in a idyllic, amazing, beautiful place. And when you are outside, you can't help sometimes, but admire what's around you.

I mean, I'm doing this in my little home. It's a little flat. I don't have a garden. So when I'm out with my horses, I spend as much time with them as possible cuz that's my being outside and in summer I don't come home, I just come home to sleep.

So I don't want to talk too much about your accident because that's not who you are, but We'll, we'll just the gratitude I suppose, but also there must be some frustration because of having to work things out again, it's like the double edge sword.

And his name's Tom Motes and he's a very notable equestrian author. And I was like, you're nuts, Tom. And then I started thinking about it. And so my new book that just came out as called Horsemanship in Life, A True Story and True is the Horse and it's really maybe musings about finding a different way, not just in life, but I think where we are in horsemanship now and we've spent so much time historically doing things using horses for things.

And so maybe I just fell into the rabbit hole for a while here of, because I had an enforced slowdown physically, but. Seeing things from horses perspectives. And I go back to Tom Dorrance, who so many people call the, the OG of Na of Horsemanship. But him saying all those years ago the horse is what describes the horse. Its sense of self-preservation, but he said, and most importantly, spirit. And he capitalized that. And I think we've kind of glossed over that.

And now I think so many people are really on that path and shining a light on, these are sentient beans. You know, we're not just, and I've spent plenty of time, let's just do things on horses and make them go and do the things I want to do. They and Dr. Steve Peters, you know, evidence-based horsemanship and heart math talks about, you know, what our energetic field of our heart is versus that of horses. All these things that they are offering us to teach us that really translate to our life.

Manship, you know, what kind of lives we lead, how we approach other beings, and do we take the time to hear what other people have to say and how our actions or wants might impact how they feel? And that includes horses as well. So many times I say I'd much rather be the person I was physically. But I think a lot of us can say that as we get older anyway. I mean, you sometimes my friends will talk and they're like, oh, my knee hurts. And I'm like, you know, this is a slippery slope.

This is what old people do they talk about their aches and pains. Oops, did I lose you there? No, no. I can hear you. Okay anyway, they talk about their aches and pains, but there's, there's so much to learn about horses and then ourselves because they allow us a space not to be judged like we judge ourselves all the time and I think to be better people in so many ways if we take that opportunity.

Oh no, I'm talking about the connection side yeah, and it can be the tiniest, tiniest thing. So I'm just thinking about something my horse did the last few days. So where we are, it's been really, really we've had a lot of rain and the last week it's been lovely cuz it's been dry, so the fields are starting to dry out. But when it's slippery, as with humans, when you walk in on ice, you walk stiffer, you hold yourself differently and everything aches and you move differently.

And my horse has like a, an area where she can stand with her, with her companion, Francis. And it's a hard standing, so it's a good area to keep out of the mud, but to get to the dry feel, she has to go through a really buggy bit now. And she's been wanting to stay out in the field because it's trying not come down. And I'm like, well, why don't you want to come down? You know your tea's down here. Do you want me to walk all the way down the bottom of the field?

Yeah. And I was having this conversation and I was like, well, I'll meet you halfway So, so she came down and then I thought, why am I getting annoyed at this? Mm-hmm. Because at the end of the day, I have to walk through that and you can hear this little voice, almost like little story saying, you shouldn't let the horse get the better of you. And that's not what it was saying, but you can hear people saying, why are you carrying your feed outta the field? Or Why are you doing all that?

But then as it turns out, she'd got a tiny bit of mud fever, which is a little sore and it wasn't a huge amount, it was just a little bit, but when they're flexing their feet, if it dries, it cracks and it gets sore. So I thought, well, of course she doesn't wanna go through the mud, why would she? And as soon as I sort of realized that I was giving her a bit of bit of attention, and I said really gently, and it was a lovely moment. I says please don't shut me out toots.

And as I say that, I can feel like in my heart and she just lowered her head and softly looked at me and she says, I hear you and it was like, oh, thank you. And it was just that tiny moment means nothing to anybody else, but I felt she heard me and the response was back. So that was lovely. But sometimes you get wrapped in your day-to-day stuff. That you forget those little bits and we take things personally. Mm-hmm. we have to remember that they're not doing it to be awkward.

They're not doing it because they don't wanna be with you or rejecting you. They've got their agenda, they're doing their thing, they're being a horse, you know? And sometimes you get on the same page and it's like, boom. And it can be just one little thing and it's lovely. And that to me is communication on a big scale although it doesn't look big, but it's the heartfelt communication.

Yeah. It's the acknowledgement of one being to another and it's the words from the heart rather than the doing words. Does that make sense, Michelle?

And I was thinking about it this morning because I actually wrote a chapter called The Stories We Tell, because we do tell stories to ourselves about like, you just shared one, like why aren't you coming here? And then as you delved down into it, you know, you saw from her perspective and her experience and where she is right now. And you, you met her there and she said, thank you. My new horse True is young. And he was kind of babbled around. He was owned by someone who had some physical.

Issues or health issues where they couldn't spend much time and then a woman who's actually a friend of mine was, had him at her facility and she would spend time with him, but he wasn't her horse per se. So I'm his first person in quite a while. That's with him all the time. And he has lots of thoughts and lots of things to say. And she told me, I'm glad that he has you, and I'm glad that he can say those things. And some of the times I'm like, well, that was salty.

I don't know if salty is a term that you using in the same, just kind of a little. Hmm. I don't know. And I'm like, what? Why are you giving me this? You know? And then I'm trying not to use the words like attitude or why are you feeling less than, because then I have to stop myself and say, there's a reason for this. Horses don't engage in the dissembling or storytelling that we do. you know, there's something to it. So it's on me to learn. You know that saying you only know what you know.

Well, we have no excuse not to know more because we have access to information. A lot of it's garbage, but we have access to information and people who are doing great work all the time, you know, it's for us to learn more and fill in those gaps where our communication skills are, our understanding of horses to set aside our human lens and try and learn how, like Dr. Steven Peters does evidence-based horsemanship and what is really going on for a horse. We have those opportunities to learn.

And in doing so, I think we can, it's hard, you know, because sometimes I'm like, I just want to do blank. I don't want you to just do this. True. And he's, he is like, he requires me to show up and be with the horse before me, not the horse in my dreams, not the horse in my imagination, not the horse of yesterday, but who, however he is right before me. He forces me to do that. And sometimes I'm not very good at it, and sometimes I'm good at it.

And like you said, it could look to other people like you're just plunking around doing nothing. But those moments when you get it, when they give it to you, you know, it's not nothing.

Now it might seem a bit strange, but if you could imagine, as I said, I have conversations myself, depending and the spiritual side or the no inside talks to the human side. That's just the way I look at it. But if you can see in your mind's eye, The essence of one part of you and the other, and just see where they're coming from because they're there for a reason and they're presenting something from their point of view. I hope this is making sense to you, Michelle, the way I'm describing it.

This is the way it's coming, so I'm trusting this is the way to give it. So this is what he says. He's confronted with three different personalities, three different people, and he's not sure who to listen to. Now, I'm relaying this to you in English, human terms, obviously, he doesn't really think like that. So that's the nearest that I can mm-hmm. Translate what he's given me.

And there's also part of him, I say to people, it doesn't matter how long you've had a horse, you could never had a horse for three months, six months, four years, we instantly fall in love with them. That's how it works. We want them, we love them, and we expect the same back.

They may give you everything, but they might not give you that last bit because depending on their experience, they might always feel like this is not permanent, or what if, and again, they don't think about it in that way that we do. It's just the essence of it is there, depending on what's happened to them.

So if you can work on that aspects of you and integrate those feelings and thoughts the best of your ability, and he knows you're going to be doing that, then there may be a slight difference. So it'd be interesting to get some feedback to see what happens. Does that make make sense? I made some notes and I'll have to let it, you know, when we're not talking, just kind of soak. Thank you.

Yeah. You said something there, Ronnie, that I had been thinking about, like, we want to be heart centric and heart forward and sometimes we can put a box around them. Mm-hmm. and to protect ourselves and, you know, things that we're uncertain about or situations that make us feel we have to be cautious. And I always tend to believe, I'd rather feel with my heart and take what comes with it than I would just hold it back.

But the point that you made about horses believing that this is the real deal, like this isn't transitory, this isn't conditional. I've experienced that and felt that a lot with him since he's been here. You know, his experience before was being out in a pasture, very placidly. And then he came here just gangbusters. And I've thought, this is like his, his place, and he's trying to find this is his actual place. And I chose him, yes.

But I also understand that that doesn't mean that just because I chose him. And I actually wrote about that. I said, we tend to fall in love with the externals of a horse, and then be like, I'm coming to pick you up. Get in my trailer. Now you're mine. Now we're in love. You know, get out and we're doing this thing. And yet that's not necessarily what they're experiencing.

And so I've really tried to be cognizant of the fact that he's finding his way through this landscape with our other horses and where he fits in with that, and the fact that I'm his person and he's got, he has a lot of work to do with me He has his hands full. I'm just getting that, so when I get information I don't ask through. It just comes as I'm talking to people. And sometimes it's from like collective it's not always from the horse.

And what I'm getting to say to you is don't don't worry about the heart, the heart will take care of itself. Just allow it, allow it to be vulnerable, allow it to be. Responsive because what that's doing is telling you something. It's guiding you. And if there is a, a slight protection over it, then be gentle with yourself.

Be gentle and kind, because when you do that to yourself, your horse can feel that and it will have a knock on effect I mean, you know that I'm not telling you things you don't know. So just. Feel what you need to feel. Be honest. If you are wanting to achieve something and say that and say that in your mind and say it to him but just you know, speak from your heart.

However that comes, you don't have to sugarcoat it if you don't feel that way, but speak gently from your heart and allow him to work out the feel of that and what's authentic to him. Cuz that's what he's doing at the minute. He's negotiating these feelings that resonate with him too. What it means to him. But it's not as we do he's not sat there with you know, a cup of coffee or a, a cigarette thinking, okay, what does this mean?

But his body, his essence, everything about him will be translating what's coming around in the frequencies. So don't worry too much about it. I'm trying to say just allow it and allow the time. Does that make sense?

But I appreciate the fact that I don't have to go searching for him you know, some horses, horses that have shut down or gone inside or feel they're just getting by horses we call Stoic. And he's, he's just like telling me all this stuff, you know, I just need to be able to hear what it is and see what the lesson is and what I can bring to that. And so it's super enjoyable and I guess it's sort of was unexpected, but I just really appreciate him.

So it might be at times that you have to almost just allow that to side pass it because it might not fit what the rational head is trying to make that it might be just one little word, one little breath, and that's enough for something to change, just slightly. But you'll know as it happens. Just take a breath, take a moment, and just see what comes through. Because he's throwing communication out quite a lot actually and he's seen what bounces back. That's what he's doing.

He's really, he's, he's firing quite a lot. Not all the time, but he's, he's wanting to learn. He's wanting to understand as much as you do which is lovely. So shall we talk about your latest book. So tell us a little bit about that.

That for me, horsemanship and life, it's like the, the more you try and do what you and I have been talking about with horses will be available or be with, what is the more you realize that it's parallel. It's not like you do, you as a human separately and then you do you in relationship with animals separately. And I say this quite often, I've learned so much more from my horses, my animals, and my kids than I have ever taught them, you know?

That was one of the things I enjoyed most about being a mom to my two sons who are like six feet plus tall now men. But just that, that truth and the ability kids have before we get busy, like washing it out of them to just say what is and be the all of them. As little humans before we're like, you had to be nice and don't say things that are rude and don't, don't say the things that are obvious.

You know, that was just such a, a joy and a challenge for me and I said my job was to like keep them within the bounds of being like good citizens and not being off the hook and saying, you know, things where people were crying, but it's like just to kind of be able to go back to that live in your true truest sense of speaking your truth and being okay with that, like kids are. I don't even know if I answered your question Ronnie

So it came to me one day, I was watching this documentary and it kind of just came to me like, what about my story? You know, from her perspective. And so I've been trying to hear that voice and then put it onto paper. So it's been interesting.

I think I used to disappear into the pages and yeah I can't tell you what the stories were about now because the enthusiasm went then. Whereas at the time I loved it because I suppose now looking back, I allowed it to flow. Yeah. So the flow was, was, was me, you know? And that was doing the writing. Whereas if I was trying to do mechanical stuff, which today, I, I don't, I don't like to be restricted I like to just go off the cuff for most things I do.

I'm not good at planning apart from this sort of thing but anything else, I'm, I'm not very good at being tied down to sort of structure. So writing yet, you have to be quite disciplined.

And I was just like, everybody get out of my way, like, I'd be making notes on my phone, I'd find my computer and it just, it was like, it wouldn't leave me alone and it was so bizarre and strange, but it was awesome.

this message needs to get somewhere, I'm open and that's how it works. And most of the time I can be in the car, I'm driving in the car and that's when messages come through because I'm focusing on one thing. I'm driving. So I've not got 101 things going on in my head. And it's almost like, yay, we can get in. Now. She's only thinking about one thing let's go and then you get the messages. But until I acknowledge it, then the rest doesn't flow. I might get a sense of something.

I know who it's going to, but I get a sense of something. And then when I either type in my phone or now, I, I leave voice recordings cuz it's so much quicker. Mm-hmm. And soon as I start to speak, then the rest of the information comes through. And I describe it as like, radio signals are floating around, you know, everything is floating around. There's oxygen in the air, there's electricity floating around in the air. You, you can't see it, but you know it's there. You trust it's there.

And the radio signals are looking for the easiest place to land and a bit like lightning and it will find the quickest route and the easiest to get to where it needs to go to. So I won't get a message for somebody that I am not going to be able to pass that on to. Now that doesn't mean I have to see them and know them physically, but I might know somebody through you.

So, you know, say I got a message for for Chrissy, I could pass it on to you if I didn't know Chrissy and she could pass that on if it was for somebody else. So it has to have a route to go to, otherwise it's no point coming to me. So it will go to the next person. And I think when inspiration and ideas and entrepreneurs, when they think of an idea it's floating around. And if it lands and they take it and do something with it, then that's it.

It's landed but if they don't do anything with it and it's still floating around, it's almost like, well, we'll go somewhere else. So your book needs to have a place to go to Cause it's landed with you.

Or I became more aware, or we both came together at the same time. But they will come in the morning when I do my chores and then they'll, if I'm not fast enough, they'll sit on the posts and or the fences and like, tell me I'm here. I'm here. And then if I'm walking the dogs or riding the horses our property. And then there's open space next to us, and I'll look at them and they'll be flying overhead, talking like they're on the walk with me.

They have mated in front of me and then they bring their children. Like one year they had three I called them the three amigos. They were just out of control. Wild. And they would bring them and show them how to do things. Last year they had just one little baby that I named Uno, and they'd bring Uno but it has been so amazing to experience being a tiny little sliver of their lives.

And then sometimes they all congregate with other ravens, like groups of 30 of them will just fly overhead talking to each other and it's just been such a joy.

But there is so much beauty in the world

Those are the things that helped me put the pieces back together, just everywhere you look. And that's one of the things I'm grateful about is yes, sometimes I think I'm probably a bit weird, but in, in a wonder way, like I still have wonder and that entertains me all day long.

And if I had a choice, I would rather have the rose tinted glasses because it's, it's how you feel about life. This is getting quite deep, isn't it? So. Okay. So we've got a lady called Patsy. For the benefit of the people that are gonna listen to this afterwards when it's a podcast, I'll read this out. Okay oh, cool. Do you want to read it out actually?

I feel like one of the blessings of my accident was realizing, like I said earlier, I'm very much in my first book, I had a chapter I wrote called Can Do, can Do. Girls were like, get outta my way. I can do this. And I think a lot of people who are involved with horses kind of have that. you know, you have a certain maybe nature independence or whatever. But I realized when I was physically forced to be slow, how fast my thoughts were.

Like I could feel them rolling down the hill before me and I was like, just stop.

If you've got a busy head you can't differentiate between what is you and what isn't and somebody says to me, how do you know it's not your imagination? How do you know it's not your thoughts? It is your thoughts to start with because it's your voice. The communication can have a different tone and a different feel. It can have a stronger strength behind it and a masculine feel, or it can have a soft feminine feel.

Some, sometimes if I'm talking to a mare I sometimes go, am I talking to, I look underneath you because I'm thinking it feels masculine. Cuz I forget when they're talking and if your head is busy, it's hard to differe, you know what is what, but you get used to it because when you start to quieten down the chatter, you can't empty your head because that's impossible. The more you try the more comes in. You are, you are going against the flow.

Whatever you are going to try and stop is coming at you all the time. Okay? So all you do is just be aware of it. And when something comes in, it has a slightly different feel and the more you acknowledge it, the more you get to know what that is. And then quite often I get like a quiet, it's almost like I describe it as calm before the storm. The air goes still, but it's very, very quick now how that happens. So I'm aware something's coming. It's like a another sense now.

Yeah. So having a busy head is definitely something to try and work with but again, you can't empty your head and have a empty head. You just have to quiet it or find something else to focus on like a blade of grass or a bird, or let your ears just drift off somewhere. And what that does is quietens the chatter down. So I hope that answered your question from my perspective, Patty. Mary Lambs says, lovely interview. Do you know this lady.

My north, south, east, and west died, like one would die. And I mean, they were all elderly, but it was just gut wrenching. And I realized that it had just flattened me out and I didn't really realize how much grief was sitting on me until I met my rufuss I was having a visit with my best friend and she was like, you're, you're not feeling okay. And I just started bawling and I was like, oh, that grief was just really residing in me. They were wonderful animals and in so many ways, guides.

And one of them was my horse named Simba, who had been a rescue horse. And we took him on and he was just such a wise guy, and he's the horse when I was getting, I always wanted to ride again after my accident, and he had been retired, but he clear as day said to me, ride me. And when I first threw my leg over this s I could feel like parts of myself coming back together. And I was like, this is amazing. And so I'm like, I wanna do this again tomorrow.

And so he said, ride me clearest day, but a little less enthusiastically. And then the third day I was like, this is amazing. This is so fabulous, I just figured you would appreciate this. And the third day he said to me, we're done. Like, I'm retired. Hmm. You are back in the saddle. You're good. And now I'm done. But I'll never forget that it was just the most amazing. It's like I maybe had rescued him in a way and he had rescued me and he was just amazing.

And when I first started going out practice and doing the communication I wasn't sure about the way I was picking up because it was very much about chit chat, it was as a human chit chat, sort of mm-hmm and I was thinking, I don't know if this is my imagination and it didn't really matter, but I thought, you know, I don't, I don't know. And I happened to be looking at something on.

And this book popped up and it was a, a book what Horses Say Something like that and it was this black paperback with a white horse's head. And it was written by Julie Dicker. And another lady, so Julie Dicker was the animal communicator, but her friend of hers wrote the book with her, and the book was very much about the conversation from the human and then the conversation from the horse and some of the stories funny to the point of, you know, when they say horses are not lame on purpose.

Oh yes, they can be If they don't want to do something, they can be and that definitely showed me. But there was such sad stories about her being in a, an auction and she was just looking at horses and this horse grabbed her she walked past and she could feel though, you know, this is my last chance. Please help me, help me. And she looked at the horse and she wasn't intended to buy, she was asking about the horse.

Anyway she bought this horse and the poor thing just literally got on the trailer and it'd been doped up and when she got the horse home the horse had I think it, it had a bit of a bend as stoop to the side. And what had happened was this horse had, Had a head collar on and tied to its tail to teach it a lesson and left for days in this bent position. It also had a pitchfork through its back at some point and this horse was saying I don't wanna go on, but I, I wanna live a different life.

So she took this animal on. But yeah, some of these stories I thought we're a way to do that to another being. Sorry. Am I upset? I can feel that too. You know, so sad. It is sad. But she, she helped this horse, and the horse recognized that she was gonna be the one to help her if she would just listen. And sometimes They don't always wanna be rescued. They don't always want to be put right. All they wanna do is to be heard and to be acknowledged.

And as I'm saying these words, I can just feel the energy behind it. Because animals, me too as my belief is when you go, it's just your clothes that go. The essence of the being is always there. And it's about being acknowledged as an equal, an equal life, and a worthy life. And that's all they want at the end of the day. They don't have to be perfect. They just want to be acknowledged as we do. And when we don't get acknowledged, that's when we get problems.

But I said I want my sharing to help encourage one person cuz we've all run into the wall of some sort, but that you're not alone and that it helped one horse get a better deal. And if my walking through my horsemanship life journey. of trying to learn more and see more and hear more. Does that it's towards what you just said. It's like we've, we're, I don't wanna use the word guilty. We've, we sit very heavy on the world sometimes, you know, we use things, we abuse things.

We don't hear things, we don't hear people. We just burn through things really fast. So that's my hope of anything, not to share why I'm on social media that we learn more, that we can see that they're just asking the same thing we are.

That it's things like this chatting that changes you as a person, but horses open the doorway animals open the doorway because we are not good with other humans. Even when we like to think we are, there's always a tiny bit that we hide even from ourselves and this is me too, you know, this is me, I'm being me here, but there'll always be an aspect of me that maybe I'm, I. Scared of showing and as soon as I say those words, I can feel vibration in my heart. Like, you know, cracking.

Come on, come on don't be scared. And you don't have to know what it is. Sometimes it's not rational, it's not always logical, but that's the problem sometimes we always think in a logical head and actually if we just work with the feel of what we have, be true to ourselves, that's all that anybody would ask at the end of the day, so.

Yeah absolutely yeah I love his podcast. I like a lot of podcast, but he's, you know he's not my guru, so I don't look at him on a pedestal. I see him as a human being and you know with everything that comes with that. But I admire and love what he does and his rawness and authentic self. He's not afraid to show that. Now, again, there may been a part of that that he hides as we all do, but the majority of what you see feels real.

And I love that and I like how, how he gets his guests to, to show that too. But before we go, cause I feel like I've been chatty more than you have and this is about you. No, it's great. No, it's not about me, it's about this

It had started because my mom told me, you should journal to work your way through this. And I'm like, I'm not journaling because I need a place to write my true thoughts of this process where, what if I die? And then people read it and they think, well, she's a crappy person cuz she just barfed all this stuff here. So instead I just wrote it all in a book. You know, I'm like, oh, world read it. But you know, there are people out there who, who help shine the light when you can't do it.

You know, find your people. Don't be afraid to say hey. And that's what I really enjoy about the little space on social media of people feeling, like yesterday we were talking about cereal. You know, just connecting and being able to be heard and feeling like you're not alone. And this is a bumpy, a bumpy ride, but it's also a beautiful journey.

And find people, surround yourself with people that are seeking and searching and supporting you and lifting you up and try to, you know, there's so much garbage out there that we just get spewed at us. Try and find somebody who will walk alongside you and say like yeah, let's just keep doing this. It might not be pretty, it might be ugly sometimes, and we might not look perfect, but we'd much rather be real, if that makes any sense.

So on that note, I love it. That was, that was quite heavy. Tara says, hi thank you very much, Tara So would you like to say goodbye to everybody, Michelle?

Yeah, lovely lady, and I look forward to hearing from her again and a new novel that's exciting. Thank you everybody that stopped on by really appreciate it. Once again my guests give their time freely as I do because I love it and I like to interact with people and Michelle's right, it's amazing.

You know, the, the internet can introduce you to people that you may not necessarily meet physically, but it doesn't mean to say that you can't have an interaction that's beneficial on lots of different levels. So I hope the weather is kind to you, wherever you are in the world. Thank you for listening and I shall speak to you soon. Take care. Bye for now.