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All welcome to epicenter Bitcoin the show, which talks about the Technologies, projects and startups, driving decentralization, and the global cryptocurrency Revolution, my name is Sebastian with you. And my name is Bryan Ferry in creative. And today, we're here with Adam Levine. Adam Levine has sort of played a, very important role actually, in the history of epson a Bitcoin in that this wouldn't have happened without him.
We met the first time. Sebastian died, last December on a conference call with Adam when the topic was too. To produce some new shows for a contest that let's talk pecan was launching and we were both from Europe. There's only four people on the call so he's like, let's try it together and that turn out very well. And we were very lucky that way because we really didn't know each other. So from a prudency perspective, perhaps, this is foolish. But as I really, really happy to
have him on today. I mean, probably most of you will know Adam. He's he's really not known. Of course, for let's talk Bitcoin and Also been involved in all kinds of other projects in the cryptocurrency space. So, just before we get started with the conversation, I wanted to briefly mention inside Bitcoins Berlin. So, you know, many of you will know, the inside Bitcoins conference has. That's actually where we Sebastian, I met for the first time in real life.
It was a year ago at last. Let's start with point a inside Bitcoins conference in Berlin. So, it's happening again, and it's going to be a March 5th and 6th. And if you want to, so we will both Be there. I will also be giving one of the keynote talks on sort of economic issues and Bitcoin and if you want to come to you with
love to see you there, you can get off. 15% with the discount code, epicenter IBC, that's all in capitals and you can check out the event at the inside Bitcoins dot d e. So with that out of the way, thanks for joining us today and thank you, Brian. Thank you Sebastian. And I just want to point out, like, how instrumental you have been in, you know, this happening.
I mean, if it wasn't for for you producing, your content and me like, at that exact time, getting interested in Bitcoin and seeking out podcasts and then Brian already being a listener. And that's meeting there. The none of this would have ever happened. And so I mean, I don't know what if we qualify you as some sort of, I don't know what that qualifies you but it does make you it important. Part of the epicenter Bitcoin experience and the success of what has happened since then.
So very, very happy to have you on. Well, that's very flattering. Thank you. Thank you very much. We can that we can call you the spiritual grandfather, if you, there we go. There we go. Yeah.
I like, I like to be a catalyst. That's what I really I really enjoy doing as I like setting off chain reactions, that then result in cool things happening that I don't really have to be involved in, you know, like we don't talk to, you know, like you guys just do your show, you never asked me for permission or anything. It was just like a suggestion. I'm really glad that it worked for you guys and I'm glad the
charm good results. Yeah, absolutely well and with that, let's launch into integer show. Let's talk Bitcoin. Because I mean I ate was, you know, when I started becoming interested in Bitcoin, I was writing my Master's thesis and I was really, really busy. So I had like no time to read at all, but I was walking around quite a lot. So when I started initially, I just caught up on the few months of continued already do.
So My, my initial knowledge, the first two months came purely from, That's So Bitcoin. So and you've done an absolutely great job. I think you've produced great content over a long time and, you know, some great guests. So can you tell us a bit like, how did you, how did you start? Let's not pick on sure first off, once again. Thank you. That was really flattering for both of you. I appreciate that. Um, I'm glad that. I'm glad.
It's had a positive impact on you, you know, I make let's talk Bitcoin and I've always made, let's take Bitcoin because I'm interested in cryptocurrency and actually let's talk Bitcoin was the I can never remember if it's the second or third, the third or fourth Bitcoin podcast, I started.
But it was not the first, you know, I and I started doing Bitcoin podcast but let's talk to Quinn started in 2013, spring of 2013 and before that I had done to podcasts in 2011, And then podcast right before it in 2013 to that sort of exploded right before we started, let's talk Bitcoin.
So this is it was not something new to me and I've been doing podcast since 2005. So it's a really natural way for me to kind of just share my perspective with people and that's largely what it is. The podcast that I made until let's talk Bitcoin, we're almost entirely about me, sharing my perspective and about, you know, trying to help people complete the picture. So they could see it as I saw it, because I'm right about almost Everything he said
jokingly. So let's talk the corn was a little bit different because let's talk back when I didn't know everything about it. And there were a lot of questions that I had that were really unanswered questions. And so I surrounded myself with experts and it was sort of it was a good way to kind of dive in. And yeah, those initial I mean, I was I just listened episode 13
the other day. While I Was preparing for episode 183, which has Chris Odom on it, from open transactions and I was listening to it and I think I like the old show all Was better that I like the new show, you know. Like I was just I guess I was less tired at the time. I've been doing it for not quite as long but but you know we've just the journey has been that. It's been a journey.
You know, we've it's been the show the network, everything has just kind of happened because it was the logical thing to happen in order to continue walking down the path that I've chosen to walk down, which is from my perspective to try and explore. As many of the possibilities that cryptocurrency presents as possible. Did that answer the question of might not have no. Absolutely. And so, what made you decide to want to start a network? No assets. That was sort of a.
Well I didn't decide. I want to start a new book to be honest with you again, it was just sort of the next natural thing that happened. You know, in December of 2013. I was, you know I was traveling a lot for conferences at that point and I was unhappy with the amount of Bitcoin podcast that we're out there. Besides, let's talk. A coin. And I had been a big fan of the Edmund, Ethan Bitcoin report and the plan B from Jupiter broadcasting. And there was one other one,
whose name I can't remember. And they all had discontinued because the because it was hard, you know, because it's hard to do something speculative without monetizing it and I again never cared for me. It was always just I'm doing it anyway. So I might as well might as well share this with everybody else so that they can kind of share my perspective and journey through the whole thing.
So, so the network Happens because we did this contest because I was like, well, there aren't enough Bitcoin podcast tool, you know, Bitcoin was super valuable that point was over a thousand dollars. So we offered a one Bitcoin, one Bitcoin prize and got like 15 or 20 and trees. And a lot of them were really good.
And so what wound up happening is, you know, we invited one person who actually won the contest and he joined and then pretty quickly we brought a few others and we basically just it became less about It became less about where you ranked relatively speaking and more if you did it. And if you want it to and if you wanted to and you asked long enough that eventually you got in and that's not an ideal situation, that's something that really made me realize that.
That in a lot of ways, I become the bottleneck, right? If I'm the one that has to be responsible for approving things or saying, no, that's not right or whatever. Then it really does rely on me. And at this point, I mean, you know, at that time I was so Leslie overbooked that it was not even funny and that got to be more true as time went on.
So this is a long way of saying the network happens because there were a lot of podcasts that have the choice of starting over, you know, and building as let's talk Bitcoin had done from the ground up in audience, that listens or to piggyback on what we were doing and start with our audience and essentially bootstrap up several thousand initial listeners. It didn't guarantee that people were going to listen every one of your episodes, but it meant that, it was presented to them.
Where otherwise, Why's it would have been quite expensive and quite time consuming in order to gather, that sort of initial audience as he no way with. So almost a year, I mean, I've probably got about a year now since the LTE network started off with its initial roster of shows and you've brought on other shows since then tell us about how that how that has
worked out over the last year. What is their experience been with the network, my experience has been that I need to be more transparent to a fault about most things. Regards to the network. If somebody asks me something I tend to tell them if they don't ask me that I don't necessarily tend to tell them so that again means that people who ask these stuff get you know get to know what's up and people don't ask
me stuff. Don't necessarily get to know it's up. It's not ideal with the network. I really wanted to help people monetize.
We had monetized well in November of 2013 because as you know, the Bitcoin price had skyrocketed up and suddenly everybody felt like they were rich and so we had for two months or three months been basically completely booked and towards the end of Of towards the end of January, I finished negotiating a deal with with the crypto kit guys to, you know, sponsor the show for basically a full year, which is just now kind of coming up to its endpoint.
So I was like well darn, you know, I mean like we that was easy, you know, it wasn't difficult, everybody's feels like they've got a lot of money and so you know we can totally share the wealth and help other people do the same thing too. And then the price, you know, continue to go down over the year and as basically as soon as the price dropped.
Like $900 everybody suddenly, it was like well you know, we probably shouldn't spend any money because it's going to go back over a thousand dollars and that kind of continued was my experience, but the other part about it, is that it was hard, right? Where before it had been easy. And so when something is easy, I tend to do it. And when something is hard, then I have to really weigh it to determine if it's, you know, going to be worth the amount of
time that it's going to take. So that was the monetization side in Spring, we started we basically launched the new website and the new Site, we are switching from WordPress on to an entirely custom platform that has become the token Lee platform. That is essentially, it's like a Content management system and a community platform that's designed from the ground up to incorporate, not just cryptocurrency, but also tokens and not just to accept them and to let you spend them or whatever.
But to also, let individuals within them, make their own token, powerful on our platform. That's, that's kind of the important part. So there was all this stuff right. And as usual, what happened was we just launched the network too early. And so people who were working with it with the expectation that they would, you know, be compensated because we had all these monetization plans. It didn't do so well necessarily
because we never did monetize. And at that point, we were also on terrestrial radio in Southern California with this deal that we had made with them and all the shows were on that. So schedules were really crazy so they were like, crazy schedules combined with nobody getting paid and we didn't know of radio. I mean like we were talking about this. For the show podcasts. You have no idea how many people are listening. You can kind of guess at how many people have started
listening. You can sort of guess it's some other things, but you never really know with radio. It's even more insane because you only know that it's being broadcast, you know, the area that the broadcast is covering and, you know, the potential number of people who could if they turn on the station, right? To your, you know, to what you're doing at that point. So it's it was completely insane. Sounds like an interesting business model for radio analytics know, sometimes you
get on that. Well, that's actually part of the reason why man. Words with something that we wound up developing was because radio completely suffers. If you think about it, radio is the is the medium of Last Resort. You have no control over it and the only time people ever use it is when they literally have nothing else that they can do. So it's great. If you're multitasking or anything else like that. But but yeah, radio has a terrible listener engagement
problems. So actually yeah, part of what we're doing has been to kind of develop this idea that really what you want to do with listeners isn't just you know give them something to listen to but you want to give them a good reason to also be part of your community. And then once the part of your community that it's much, much easier to see who's actually participating and how many people are actually listening and all these things. So a lot of what we've done has been about that.
So this is, you know, I like I said, it's a long way of saying that the network has been what it is and people have chosen to join it because they chose that because they decided that it was to their advantage, to be able to speak to our audience. And I agreed that their content was high enough quality that, you know, we were able to Remind so one thing I recently did was I looked at Bitcoin podcast and have existed.
So both on the LTE network and others that have been independent and, you know, some of them had heard of some of the mess hall and iTunes rankings. And when you go back to, it was pretty crazy. That almost all of them have been discontinued and and, including quite a few of the LTE network shows, why has that been the case? Yes. Because monetization is hard because the audience that's interested in this type of
content is very small. The portion of that audience that is potentially interested in this type of content that is willing to listen to podcasts, which is to say to not do video or to read a transcript is very small. It's something like compared to video. It's like 75 percent of people on the net use video and only like 15 percent use audio. Right? Use all discrete audio formats and it's just a taste thing because a lot of times people can't multitask.
So, I find that most of the people who listen to podcasts are people who really value or enjoy multitasking either because they're so busy or because they're, you know, working on something else in can't fully concentrate on the
cars stuff like that. So you asked why have shows been discontinued shows them a discontinued because it's hard to do this speculative lie and consistently because stuff happens and your priorities change and your interest level changes and if you're not getting paid for then the impetus to keep doing, it isn't quite as strong. So I mean I'm crazy. That's the that's the flat truth of it is. I'm just nuts.
I'd be doing this really regardless of what's happening so that I think is the key to let's talk Bitcoins continued success, it's crazy. I am crazy that we just do this. I think there's any the crazy part of it. I think you could attribute to be passionate about it. Yeah, I think that that's what has kept us going as being passionate about producing great content and I think you share that same that same passion. And, you know, I wish that Cared more about the great content part.
I care about, I care about information, I care about knowing things. I care about people knowing things and people having the correct impression of things. So, for a lot of, you know, the other thing I care about is giving people the ability to share what they care about,
right? I'm super passionate about this stuff but the way that my attention works is that either care about something, 100% completely ridiculously unapologetically or I don't care about it at all and that's because I only have Of those two settings. So if I like care about something just a little bit, then that means I basically care about it as if I cared about it fully. And so it's incredibly irritating trait to have. I have to tell you that sounds
that sounds terrible. So when you see that stock Bitcoin going in the future is above the podcast itself and the network. Well. So a big part of the reason why the network has been difficult. Not. I mean, like as individual participants, I would I would argue. It's been difficult for individual podcasters That they get Advantage but they have to work within our system and
that's been difficult. So what we've been doing for the last year is building out in part a new editorial system and the new edit, I'm sorry. What was your ex might be going into the wrong thing. So the question was like, wait, do you see? Let's go pick on going the podcast and the network. So where do you see this in the long? Like, let's say, two years down the line, if you can see, therefore, there was a reason I was talking about tools. So yeah, so I think that will be
much more complete. I think that will be a much more feature complete platform that will allow its users to interact with each other with no, where the platform enables the enables, the the interactions and can enable the Commerce, but it's actually just happening between those two participants and they're making all the rules.
You know, as they see fit and the best part about that is that if we make all of these things entirely voluntary, then there's literally no such thing as, you know, as a bad deal because somebody who doesn't want. It doesn't do it, you know somebody who doesn't want to work on a project and you know in order to facilitate that we need to build in reputation systems and we're working on a collaborative editorial system
and a call and then beyond that. So let's talk Bitcoin right now is a front page that's powered by one Blog. The system that we're moving to next is one where anybody can make a Blog and then content can be curated up from all of those distributed blogs on to the front page and then the next phase after that. And actually, these will At the same time is that anybody who wants to take content created within the LTB environment and make their own front page, where
they curate up their own? You know, other content from within the network based on their own standards? They'll be able to do that too. So some elements of Reddit and a community platform. Let's talk Bitcoin is a community platform part of that. Is publishing part of that is Commerce. Part of that is, you know, socializing part of that is project management. Part of that is plan. I mean, like there's you can think about it like We used to before the age of the internet.
We used to go physical places and we used to meet people in, you know, bars or restaurants or town halls. And we used to be able to interact with people and conduct Commerce in public places and and that was easy and the internet has replaced that partly. But the part that it doesn't do well is it doesn't do anything that has anything to do with ownership or money?
Well, because the only thing that you can do is give somebody else a debt which is not that useful so-so I think that that's that's really what's Happening. Here is the platform, the were designing, you know, we started designing it for let's talk Bitcoin but it is a generic Community platform in the same way that a town hall is a community platform, anything that you can do there, whether its funding something or, you know, talking to somebody or signing a contract with somebody
or whatever. You can do it on this type of platform and more importantly, because of that, because that stops being the hard part, you can do anything on one of these platforms, literally anything, Well, we've got so much more to talk about including LTV coin, crowdfunding want to talk about content? Monetization models. But let's take a break for. We do that and talk about our sponsor shape-shift. So Chef is a fast and easy way to buy and sell altcoins and I'm curious.
I haven't seen LTV coin on shape-shift. They've been adding all kinds of new coins, all the time and and but LT becomes not there. Yet, do they have counterparty yet? If they don't have counterparty or xcp then they wouldn't have us know. Yeah, I guess that's true. They don't have, they don't have counterparty yet. I mean that might come at some point but anyway so shape-shift is a fast and easy way to buy and sell altcoins. They support Bitcoin.
They just added bitshares. They just added start coin namecoin XT. They're adding new coins every week so I can't even keep up. And last week, we try to do a demo touch to a demo with their shape shift lens plug-in, which is essentially a chrome plug-in, which allows you to You shape-shift on any website, it wasn't working.
It was a bug. Unfortunately, it appears that they have fixed it. So we're going to go ahead and demo it this week and hopefully if we keep our fingers crossed and we printed the demo Gods, it will in fact work. So if if If we go to the LTB website. So we're going to donate to the last episode which is beyond the blockchain with open transactions. If we scroll down here we get the tip address right here.
This is a Bitcoin tip address. I'm going to click on so I've got the shape shift lens plug-in install. I installed it with it's in the Chrome web store, you just look for shape shift lens and you'll see the little shape-shift Fox logo right here. So if I click that I get Will pop up and click pay with. I'm going to pay with Dogecoin. And so there's my those the destination address.
So this is the Bitcoin address that we're donating to and I'm going to go ahead I'm not even going to put in an amount. I'm just going to set in my wallet what I said so let's pay. I'm going to get a QR code. I'll go ahead and scan that. with my Dogecoin wallet, and I'm going to send three dollars, There you go. So it's setting and you'll see
here. It's a waiting for your Dogecoin. And just a few seconds, there you go. So payments been received and now we're just waiting for the confirmation and nice thing about shape-shift that it doesn't require any confirmation. So 0 confirmations, as soon as it receives the Bitcoins, it starts doing its thing. Converting those Bitcoin into Dogecoin, you met any other way,
right? Or sorry, converting those Dogecoin into Bitcoin rather and in just a few seconds we'll be able to even will even be able to look at it on the blockchain and see that it's actually Trip. So it's just still awaiting
confirmation. Stick will and and you don't need to make an account, but you can just get started and I think it's through know, there you go. So I just went through and in fact, so this is a nice feature here, you can get a receipt by email and if we look if we click here and we look at the blockchain will see that that come from that transaction is actually went through. So there you go. It took about 30 seconds to get Dogecoin sent to that the latest
episodes Bitcoin address. So you should be getting that in your wallet very soon. That I should indeed. Very cool. So there you go ships. If dot IO? Give it a try. Tell us what you think. You don't even need to create an account as Brian mentioned and you only pay a small fee which is included in the price of the transaction ships.
If that I owe the fast and easy way to convert all your alt coins, So moving on the next thing I want to talk about in this is very closely tied to what we were discussing earlier on the network is LTB coin. So in early 2014, you propose, I mean, you started thinking about creating a currency within the LTE network, which would be used to sort of the the economic while the currency, the currency with the which live inside the
network and service. The LTE network for paying content producers, but we also serve advertisers to pay you to buy me donate and buy advertising for the show.
What was the main thing that you were trying to accomplish when, when you first thought of a creating LTB point, I was trying to solve the bootstrap problem, which is what I called the, that like, the first thousand people who you are trying to get involved in a given in a given project that you are interested in. And the thing that Bitcoin did, well, that does not We Exist anywhere else is they came up with a way where you could create a token create a you know
and I say that both technically a token but also a token of contribution. It's difficult. Kind of they're going to conceptualize that. So LTD coin, the value of it is very questionable but the value of it doesn't really matter from the, from my perspective. Because the thing that we used it for is to incentivize and the thing that we Use it for is to incentivize people to participate in our system. This is not to say that. It's the only way that you can interact with us.
It's just the best way because it is the most cost-effective way relative to other options. So the reason why it's worth it to us to do that is because we have no cost when it comes to creating this and using it to administer our Rewards program. And you know I was just looking at this the other day we just did a distribution yesterday went out to over 1,000 people and I think it costs like .05 one. PTC or something like that which comes to like $11.
So, you know, administering a Rewards program or weekly send out, you know, differing amounts of tokens to people, you know, automatically to people for less than $10 in terms of transaction fees and total cost is something that can really only be done
with tokens. And it means that when people are, when people create something for us, we don't have to wait until we get paid Bitcoin for it because we're not paying them Bitcoin. We're passing along LTB coin and actually, it's not even passing it along when we 8l T be coin. It's distributed based on your contribution, right? So if you're part of the audience then there's a part of each weekly distribution that is created.
That's given to you is the first user because you're valuable to the network, you're someone who's spending their time and making their choice to consume content that are content creators. And by our, I mean, people using our platform we have, we have no even formal agreements with anybody. It's just a platform people, use it because they have something to say and because we think that they're there. As they haven't, disqualified themselves is almost thing, right?
I'm very, very laissez-faire. When it comes to allowing content onto our platform, it has to be at a certain quality level, but besides that it's been mostly about traffic control and then about, you know, people not, you know, breaking the few rules that we do have. We're very specific about the content that we allow on the network. I'm sorry, we're talking about LTB coin. So anyways, the relevant part of LTB coin is that it doesn't cost us anything.
And so because it doesn't cost us anything just like Bitcoin can give it to the minors for free while even though they're providing a valuable service, it's free to the Bitcoin Network. We can do the same thing except it's with the audience, it's with content creators. And then there's a 10% that goes to the platform to so LTB coin
has been, I don't know people. Again, focus a lot on the price and I think that that sort of misses the point when you create a token and LTB coin was one of the first tokens, not cryptocurrencies, but tokens ever created. There just wasn't anything you could do with them. And that was what we were in into is that, you know I was You can think about a token, right? Like a like a marble, or like a ball bearing, whatever it is very like that in that. If I hold it in my hand, I have it.
If I give it to you, I no longer have it. It's no longer accessible to me. And by itself, it isn't really much of anything. It's this little thing that is itself, and that's pretty much it. But if you take that ball bearing or marble, and you put it at the top of a Rube Goldberg type machine that is designed to, you know, like make me Host and kick me out of bed and all that stuff. Then suddenly you could make the argument that that ball bearing has the ability to make me toast
and get me out of bed. Even though the ball bearing itself, didn't actually have anything to do with it because it was placed in circumstance that was set up for it to trigger certain things. It actually causes that to happen. And then of course, it's also still a ball bearing. So it, you know, you can't make an arbitrary copy of it and then give it to, you know, let somebody else do it. So that's really what tokens are as far as I'm concerned. We now have 80 and that used to
be impossible, right? Used to be impossible to make a token. You used to have to make an entire Block Chain and go through Mining and do all this other stuff. So the idea that you could make something for an arbitrary reason kind of wasn't ever really feasible until tokens, but once it is feasible then suddenly what was impossible, becomes the easy part and what was inconceivable. Because the thing that preceded it was impossible is suddenly now an incredibly obvious
problem. And so, when we started, let's talk Bitcoin, like in order to do that, send out to a thousand people. Automatically and not have me sitting there doing every single transaction for, you know, 18 hours a day on the days that we have to do this. We actually had to create an entirely new tool. That is essentially an automated distributor where you send all
of the we're within our system. You give it all of the addresses or LTB usernames that you want to send to you, put in all the amounts or the percentage is next to what it is that next to each name, depending on how much they should get. And then the system gives you a single address to which CH you send the full amount of Bitcoin for the transaction fee and the full amount of whatever the token is that you're Distributing. And then it automatically goes,
through sends out. All those transactions at a rate that doesn't overwhelm the network. Let's see here. Does it with fees that are less than half of what the standard counterparty fees are because again, like they're just fixed fees that since we built a custom tool, we were able to experiment with and see. Ok, well the network will deal with it here but it won't deal with it here and and it also Tracks confirmations and sends
you a set. It gives you essentially, the ability to make sure that all the transactions actually did go through and it's auditable to. So that's something that like is so basic, right? Being able to send a bunch of tokens differing amounts of tokens to different people and not have it. Take a person all day or be a full-time job and yet until we created it. It did not exist. So it has led be coin.
Worked has it succeeded and things you wanted it to do it, succeeded in that it let me In that it let me allocate Credit in a way that could later be valuable, right? Because if I just say, you know, if you help me with an episode a year ago and I say to you, thanks, I'm successful now. But, you know, thank you. You helped me get there, then that's great. But if instead you got paid LTB coin and then a year later, LTB coin was successful, because
we're successful. Then that's something where your work earlier on actually had a very substantial impact for you and you actually can potentially profit. If you know what we're doing, doesn't wind up being valuable and it fails. Thing doesn't work, then doesn't matter to you. You know, you it was a volunteer effort essentially you did anyways and the token was just a volunteer token but if the project succeeds there is that
potential for upside. So that's the thing is that we already I mean like you can already support things for volunteer for them. You can already, you know, give people money for free. The thing that you can't do is get a token back from that person. That represents something that could be valuable in the future
without it costing that person. Because again, like you could do this with Kickstarter. You just would have to raise money with Kickstarter. In order to, then pay people back money with Kickstarter. So it doesn't make any sense, but if it's free, then why not? So you asked if it had been successful. I think that the time frame is too short to really make that sort of judgment. We're moving into a new phase of LTB coin.
Now to this point, we've been Distributing it and there's been no utility for it. We've had you know we had no Redemption methods that were not completely manual. There was no good way to use it in a lot of capacities and so that, of course, something that doesn't have utility and has a lot of supply. Is going to be very low value, but that's the thing that's changed in the last two weeks.
The last week, we rolled out the sponsor tool which lets people redeem, which lets people redeem LTB coin, or Bitcoin or a variety of other tokens that we accept for various things that we offer on the network like sponsorships on the show or display advertisements on the front page. And then yesterday, we rolled out, our essentially automated vending machine, a project we call swap bought and the vending machine lets you buy. EB coin for Bitcoin or for a
variety of other tokens. Including storage is coin swarms coin xcp. You know, we're only compatible with counterparty tokens at this point, which are built on the Bitcoin blockchain. But but, but we already kind of have that sort of multi token and different tokens, achieve different prices, right? So we give a 40% discount when you buy something with LTB coin, but we actually charge 10% more when you want to spend swarm with us. Because swarm doesn't actually have that much utility.
So I mean it's it's a Project will take it and will, you know, trade trade tokens for it but it's not the same as if you were using our token within our system. So that's the thing that's different now is that now there's actually something you can do with it.
And indeed, since that happened, we've seen the amount of volume trading on the centralized markets, like Polonia X, where LTB coin is traded, go up quite a bit and it's been, it's been interesting watching you know because every time we do something, the ecosystem is still small enough that it causes big reverberations. So yesterday when we We rolled out the vending machine. We had been pricing LTB coin at 20% above whatever the current market price was.
But then somebody crashed the price because the market is small and so the price goes way down. Somebody comes over to, somebody comes over to the vending machine and they say, oh well this is 20% above the current super low price, but I can get, you know, a whole bunch of coins and I don't the worry about Market depth. So then they bought from us. So we had a conversation with him this morning were like how do you know what exactly did you do? And you know, so now we're
going, we went through. And changed it. So that our price for LTB coin is pegged to the 24-hour high of LTB coin. Yeah, I'm so you don't really want to buy LTB coin from US unless you just want to use it right then and it's a convenience thing. But if you're going to spend ldb coin with us, then again, we're recognizing it. Not only with that 40% discount, but at that much higher price relatively speaking.
So it's just such an experiment. As an experiment, LTB coin has been incredibly successful because it is shown me, all of the things that are impossible. Able to do with tokens because nobody has built that tool yet, and it's why indeed. We've wound up building token Lee as a project and as a platform and what I'm spending most of my time thinking about
these days. Yeah, I mean, I've been asked by a few people about, you know, you know, with different projects I'll get couldn't we use a token and they hadn't known about LT because necessarily but, you know, could we create our own currency to incentivize people and stuff and I was like, yeah, that's a great idea, but you probably want to wait for At least a year because I could rewrite this so many different components that all have to be there otherwise it
just doesn't work and you have had this sort of I guess interesting challenging but you know also difficult job of having to build all of this from scratch. Well to be clear, I'm not I'm not building it, I'm the Like Chief Visionary officer ideation guy, I come up with all the all the, you know, like big problems that I run into that are super annoying to me and I complain about I have Have.
So I have two co-founders on the token, like project who are active working on it, Nick rathman and then Devon Weller both technical sides of that. So so we've been able to in the three months, we've been working on the token Lee Project as a formal project but able to make very very fast progress going
through this. And actually I think that you know, I probably, you know, in hindsight if I had the opportunity to and still learn the lessons, I would have waited a year to launch LTB coin, because a lot of people didn't understand the timeframe we were on it, I didn't even really And the time frame that we were on, I had kind of assumed that we'd be able to build this stuff and have it out and, you know, three months and the reality of development just hits you in the
face like a brick. Well, one thing you mentioned that that I really like is that, you know, the importance of all, this is the experiment. And and I think that the judging the success of a project or something like LTD coin, because of price or because of the wide user isn't probably not necessarily a good, a good. Decatur. And perhaps the, you know what you've learned from it is is definitely more valuable than any any of what that may
accomplish. I'm very glad that we didn't, we'd never sold it. I was very important to me that it always be something that we give away to volunteers who were doing stuff for us. Anyways and not sell it simply because I was not convinced it was going to work, right? I was convinced that it was an experiment worth doing and I still I'm convinced it it's an experiment worth doing but nothing is simple. You know.
I mean the thing about all of this stuff though is that like the Use the usability issues are the issue and it's not usability with LTB coin. It's not even really usability with tokens its usability with getting people into Bitcoin in
the first place. As soon as that problem gets solved, the whole world is going to change because that is the thing that holds people back it's thing where if you hear something cool and want to look at, it's like, okay, well, but but this is hard and if it's hard, then why would you spend your time doing it? So I mean, that's the, that's the core problem, you know, is that like you've got Bitcoin, that's difficult counterparty. It's difficult.
Their wallet has become increasingly slow as time has gone on. So I don't necessarily know if that's the you know. Best long-term solution Are All That Jazz. It's a it's just such a fluid situation. So that would be the thing.
You know, for anybody out there, who's wondering what they should do, the thing that they should do is try and learn as much as possible about whatever it is that you're trying to do and try and avoid making decisions about which particular thing to cement yourself on. And that's the thing that I'm going to work on for the rest of my life because things change.
And, you know, this is a, this is a big project, but I think that we're going to provide a lot of opportunities to a lot of different people to do things that I have no idea about it in much, the same way that, you know, we can the, I like to catalyze other things. I think that the token lie project in the platform really is going to provide opportunities to do whatever you want. And have it be easy? Yeah, I mean one advantage has well of not selling it. I think it's the whole legal
liability site which I guess. We will see where that goes, 50 crowdfunding projects. But speaking of crowdfunding, you will also launch another project called coin Powers. I mean, we once had actually Tatiana on ages ago and I think when she was launching her to her coin through coin Powers.
So can you talk a little bit? But what's the role of crowdfunding in this and what what we the results you saw with with coin powers, So coin power is no longer exists and part of the reason why coin power is no longer exists in my opinion. And I want to be clear that I am, you know, I had very little to do with Korn Powers towards the end. I was mostly involved, helping Tatiana, go through her project.
Essentially, I was a large part of my role and then I consulted with them because I saw cryptocurrency and crowd funding is being a very natural mating. One of the things that is interesting, if you think about it is that you don't We need a site like Kickstarter in order to crowdfund anymore. Why do you need a site like Kickstarter? You need a site like Kickstarter because they have a community supposedly, although it's not that valuable anymore.
Since again, they have so many projects on it that it's very, very difficult to stand out. They charge money and they have a payment processor. So, and they can tell you that you can't list. So that payment processor is the pretty much single most important part about being a crowdfunding site. And if you're a crowdfunding site that uses tokens or uses Bitcoin than you don't need a payment, Assessor. And so, if you don't need a payment processor, then why do you have to have dedicated
crowdfunding sites? Why aren't there crowdfunding blogs where people have crowdfunding campaigns that they run themselves? And then they incentivize people to promote it on their blogs and they get you know they get some sort of commission for things that come through. So that's the thing I think that that you know, coin Powers realized partly because I told it to him a whole bunch of times and the core problem I think there was their ability a closed
platform. They're A closed source project and they wanted to be the definitive crowdfunding platform and I think that that's not really possible in a world that we're going into, so you know, the future of crowdfunding is, I see it there certainly will be, you know, projects and platforms like Kickstarter that people choose to use because they want to use them, but if you don't want to use them, then sites light, you know, the projects like Lighthouse have already
started. To show us what you can do just with Bitcoin and that's of that was a great experience. I'm not sure if you guys have tried Lighthouse yet, it's a crowdfunding essentially Bitcoin. Yeah very very cool technology and again, probably fantastic. Know it will end and the other thing it does is it opens it asks the question if crowdfunding can be a wallet then can't a website. Be a wallet.
I mean if we're trying to put wallets into websites right now that's what we're trying to do and it's hard because you have to do a whole bunch of client side stuff. Otherwise you have centralization of risk. If the if the website is compromised in the wall it can be compromised, but light Shows us that what if we instead just take the wrapper of a Bitcoin wallet and put communities
inside of that? And so you just interact with the community there and because it's built into a wallet you can do all of these things and it is just as simple as Lighthouse. They don't the way for any confirmations because the wallet knows what it just did. So again like this, we have to reorient how we think about all of these things because the possibilities are fundamentally different. So back to crowdfunding. So have I mentioned swat-bot yet? I don't know.
Yeah, okay. So anyways, you if you want to check out the most recent tool we've rolled out for token, Li you can check out swap bot. If you've heard of the vent project, ve + ND project which is again an automated token vending machine. It's quite similar to that except ours also has the ability to Peg to market prices and to accept multiple tokens at discounts or premiums relative to those market prices so due to do. So the thing that I'm bringing Here, is that once you have that
basis, right? Once you have the ability to have an automated vending machine, then what is a threshold based crowdfunding campaign? A threshold based crowdfunding campaign is is logic. Basically for a vending machine that knows how much it's trying to raise. In terms of some value. Number in, whatever type of token. You want to think about value in, it knows what types of
tokens. It's willing to accept and what discounts are premiums that it's willing to give for those because it might like Bitcoin more than it likes LT. Be coin or something like that. And you need to know the the date that it should close by. And you need to know the type of token that people get back, right? Because again you know like with the Tatiana coin thing, you the problem with Tatiana coin. Again, it's the same thing with
all TB coin. It's that yeah, sure, you've got the coin out there but now the coin is the easy part and how do you do Redemption, how do you do Mass sends? How do you do anything? So, actually to do the distribution of Tatiana coin, we use the LTB distributor and it's been used by a lot of other projects for the same sort of
thing. So, That's where again, I think we're going is that crowdfunding won't be won't be something that you go to a website for it'll be something that like if you want to be listed on a website you might even pay to have your project listed on the website. But then you've got your project list on the website and yet you still retain control over it. So instead all you do is just take a module, right?
Take this chunk of code that has all this logic built into it that you've customized for all of your needs. You know, you put in the address, it's going to send the, it's going to send the Funds to when it's done and then you just let it go. And it's this little module that you plug in and people can choose to send money to it and they get tokens back. If the project successfully funds and if they don't then they get back their money.
It's automated. So what you're saying is you're separating the funding from the crowdfunding. Basically, you're taking ownership of the funding in a way. Well, what you're doing is you're separating the funding from everything and that's that's the important takeaway here.
Is that is that whatever you're doing whether it's crowdfunding or or anything you can Tate, you can separate the the token part, you can separate the payment from the engagement part and by doing that, you can make it so that you don't have to use a payment processor and because you don't have to use a payment processor, you don't have to do. Maybe you can do lots more
stuff. You can do lots more stuff and more than that, you know, once you get past thinking about it like payments, then it's everything because anything can be represented as a token. Yeah, absolutely. I think really Lighthouse for me, like using it the first time. You know, sometimes, As you try to explain Bitcoin to people and like, why is this so special?
And I think light causes like a great example where you could like show it to people and I think most people would understand what this is really novel. Like this is something that just cannot do otherwise. So I agree with me, it was also kind of a great experience coming back because I'd gone gotten so used to bitcoin and using Bitcoin, daddy become almost normal. And you think that God this is like, you know, it's like it's maybe not super now. Exciting anymore.
You know, I it's been a while, but I think that's the sort of for me like using it the first time kind of rekindled that excitement. Now, I also wanted to, we also wanted to touch on another topic that I think you've been thinking about a lot, which is the content monetization and especially tipping. So I heard a lot of people say and I'm not sure if you were one of them that you know tipping was going to be the future. Sure and your Bitcoin makes it easy. And it makes that sort of to
reality that may be the future. People couldn't produce content and pure live on donations. I mean, okay. Maybe some people are doing it today but that this would become a commonplace. I personally have always been very skeptical of that. But what has your experience been now with, let's talk Bitcoin and tipping, we really D emphasize tipping. We do. I'm sorry, I don't mean like we actively D emphasize that.
I mean, the, when we switch to this new place, Form it became less of a priority for us so you know I mean is that we do it but it's really dependent on it's really dependent on the value of Bitcoin relatively speaking people give more when the value is lower compared to what it's higher and in the numbers can change you know but that's just true of Bitcoin in general.
People are tied to the price and it makes it really difficult to do anything because it's not so much about what you're doing then so much as it is about how excited they are and therefore interested in your content. So like when the prices down, And you know, like we have you know, bad weeks relatively speaking in terms of listeners or in terms of overall site users and when the prices up than we have really, really good weeks. And it's, it's just sort of this
funny thing. And so reality in the space, you asked about monetization also, monetization is a struggle, that's largely again. What we're trying to do, we're trying to give people the ability to create different monetization schemes. And it's again, it's not just about LT Beacon, I don't want to. That impression LT be coin is kind of like the, you can think about it, like, everything, the trades against Bitcoin, like, you know, everything you can buy with Bitcoin.
Like that's what LTB coin is anything within our ecosystem? You can buy it with LTB coin, but it might not be the best price, you know, you might it, somebody might want dollars more than they want something else or whatever, and that sort of left up to the individual users. So in the future, what we're doing is we're continuing this this concept of ownership, we're going to be, you know, right now we're finally automating our
advertising system. Our display advertising system and in the future we'll be offering individual spaces on individual articles. So basically like so when you post okay so you have to think about it like layers. So you wanted to I think explain how the monetization was going to work with the token list system. So right now on let's talk Bitcoin we only have advertisements on the front page, that's the only place you'll find any sort of display advertisements whatsoever.
And it's not again intentional it's just that we didn't really know what we wanted to do. And it didn't really matter because we didn't really About monetizing in the future. What's going to happen is if you write an article or create a podcast, you will have essentially advertising space that you can sell or they can be redeemed for other things or where you can represent something that you want to sell in that space, or you can sell the space to somebody else.
You'll then post that on a Blog and the blog itself will also have at least one ad space that they own. And so when they post your piece of content, you'll I have one thing that you own and can sell and do whatever you want with. They'll have one thing that they own and can do what they want with. And this also is true about the front page, then the front page. And so everybody essentially takes ownership of their particular part of the different
of the advertisements monetize. It is monetizes it as they see fit. So you certainly could, you know, like you could in your post have a vending machine embedded, that sells tokens, that can be redeemed for ad space, in that ad that's right below or right at the top of the post, you could you Have a subscription program. We're at the bottom of your posts. You have a little you know, like here's what we were thinking.
We were writing this that you don't want to show to everybody but people who are kind of in your fan club that can actually happen on the same page. And again these are things that aren't in yet but they're things that are that exist in Prototype form. So what I just described is a concept, we call token controlled access which is the idea that which is the idea that since people can in their wallets and their counterparty wallets have many, many, many types of tokens. Not just Bitcoin.
That's why that's why tokens are so important is because you can have a single address a single Bitcoin address and it can have a thousand different types of tokens. Each one in different amounts and we all we have to do is a service is look at that address. We have you verify that you control that address and then once you do, we can basically just treat it. Like any thing that is in that
address you own. And So within our system, then we say, okay, well, this token, this token that says, you know, early on it. This is a Founder token. And so when you have this in your wallet, You're on our website then you can see the founder Forum. That's only accessible to people who are founders. And so that's that's like a we call it with the concept token
societies. The idea is that you look at the same webpage as everybody else, but based on the content of your inventory or Pockets, we're kind of going back and forth between the different motifs. We want to use based on that. You will see something different and the concept extends Beyond this sort of basic. Oh, well, what you see on the page, even again, we have these Vending.
Machines, right? So you can take that same type of token, controlled-access concept, and pivot it a little bit and turn it into roll coins and a roll coin, is something that doesn't it, you don't see anything differently but when you visit it, you know, the the vending machine or whatever. Then it sees oh this person is a someone who should get a 10%
discount. So you visit the same store as anybody else but because you have this token that they don't have the system, treats, you differently. So this idea of token controlled access. It's not really So much attributed to tipping where like you could use a busker, sort of as an analogy, but it's more of a pay wall. We've moved Beyond tipping tipping, implies that you're not giving value back tipping. Implies that there's something that I mean, like tipping.
Again, it's not to say that we won't accept tips. It's just to say that the type of people who will give tips are specific and not everybody by any way, shape, or form. So the token controlled-access just to come back to that. If it's, it allows you to implement a pay wall essentially, on your, yeah, it's more like an intelligent membership site. And like really versatile, right? Right now. The only way really, really have to implement this intelligently.
I think is, it's true browser plug-ins? Do you think that in the future? We might see some open protocols, like, be integrated. I don't know. In in like the HTML, APR, something where browsers much like you see now, like when you use a browser and ask you for your location access or it asks you to To have access to your webcam. A browser would query you and say, okay, this content says that you have to pay for it with with a currency. This is the address is what you
need to send. Do you think that it's a possibility in this, in the future? We might see any more integrated access and more standardized access to this type of payment under gration. Yeah, absolutely. And again we don't really think about it. Like it's a pay wall because it's more because the mm. Okay, so a pay wall, you're paying for access to something, right? And once you've got access to it, then it's over. But with this again their tokens.
So if you wanted one and it was valuable to you, then you actually own something valuable, right? Because if somebody else wants it and they don't have it, then that's valuable. So that's that's the difference again, it's this concept of ownership, it's more like you get keys. And if you want to sell your key to somebody else, you can sell your key to somebody else and then you don't have it anymore and, and it's a thing. But yeah, it's, it's very, very, very generic.
And you mentioned a browser plug-in. This actually happens just through right now. Now let's talk Bitcoin accounts. We're working on another branch called a token Lee accounts. It's actually on, it's in our GitHub. I believe it's called X off, and that is a generic service. And it is literally, it's like oauth, actually quite similar. You like, there's no Community there. There's no real features there.
All you do is create an account and then associate your wallet, so that it can become your inventory. And then you'll use that to log in essentially at other services, that choose to opt. In to get that cool. Yeah. I mean, I remember the first time I heard you talk about this on the list of pecan podcast. You know, I really do. Think this is a huge potential and could become in the future. How you've managed a lot of interaction monetization and all that.
Of course, the it is a is a very big hurdle. No. Because then you first need to get people to to have a counterparty wallet and have somehow. Even these tokens. So it's very difficult to get. Started the having the counterparty wallets, the hard part. Once they have that, that everything is easy.
Everything is automated. All they have to do is show up, but it's that it's that setting up the initial counterwallet and then using counterwallet to, I mean, counterwallet, you know, again likes, not the most user-friendly. Yeah. It's it will, it's it, is it's pretty user friendly, it's just slow, you know? I mean, it just takes forever to do anything and sometimes it fails and it's just, it's just new technology. So yeah. I mean, you know, it's the best
that was out. At the time, but if we pick an ear I don't know if that's gonna be the case. So I'm very like my perspective is that it doesn't matter to me. We are, we're like, they're all down here and they're competing and we're just like up here and every time, you know, we just connect down to them so we tied together tokens eventually.
You'll be able to take tokens created on the you know bitshares system and they will be able to trade against an interact with tokens on the you know on let's talk Bitcoin or counterparty or all that stuff. So as a higher platform higher level platform we actually have the ability to connect tokens in a way. Way that, you know, they can't
Naturally by themselves. So before we are wrapping up, we would like to talk a, take a bit of a step back, step back from, let's talk Bitcoin and think, talk about Bitcoin in general, and sort of, you know, where we're at in this technological and economical and maybe social Evolution. So, you know, as we all know, 2014 has been accompanied with this massive price. Fine. You know, whether this is sign something to worry about or not I guess opinions differ on that one.
I do think we are seeing is relatively slow adoption. Certainly slower than probably almost all of us anticipated a year ago. So what's your take on? Kind of where we are at and how things are going? I think the word very healthy place.
So I think that we're, you know, going at the pace that things need to go, you know, moving from being purely a commentator to actually, you know, participating in the creation of some, of these tools has really given me a greater appreciation simply for the amount of complexity and the amount of time required in order to build stuff that's new.
And when you're building something that nobody's built before, it's really, really, really hard because you don't know what to do. You just know that I have this problem? Here's what my best guess. Is that the solution and then you try? That's really the thing that On his try to be as iterative as possible, you know, and we and it's bad sometimes.
You know, I changed my mind about things and we you know, we pivot because of that and it's a challenging environment to be in, you know, the Bitcoin as a whole. Like I said, I think that this is incredibly healthy and I think it's healthy because the cycle is one that I've now seen a number of times, the price goes up, people start doing projects because they see the prices up in there, like Oh,
this is a great opportunity. Then the price comes down because it takes a long time and there was a lot of hype about the Project's initially. And then a lot of them fail because they weren't very good ideas anyways or because things petered out, once the price went down and then the ones that survived come out. And I think that we saw that very recently with like the The coinbase Exchange, you know.
I mean like that's certainly a project that's been in the works for quite some time and it's one that will drive legitimacy quote unquote and drive adoption quote unquote because it lowers the barrier to be able to do this stuff for people who have the Barrier. So that's that's where we are.
I think that we will we're about to as the price continues to go down, you know, we will see over the next six months, a bunch of really exciting projects come out that were started during the bubble and that have been can you know, continued during this drive down in price, much to the Chagrin of everybody who started working on it but eventually it comes out and eventually it makes a difference. So I feel like that that's
happening everywhere. Cool. So one thing I've been wondering About thinking about a bit and I don't know what your perspective on that is, is that maybe if you take the larger picture, then this is all good. Because obviously in terms of user user experience services, like Bitcoins, not ready for the mainstream, but at the same time, it seems that a lot of people expect it didn't expect this, right? So regarding the Project's failing, it Seems to me that this here.
A lot of project will have to fail, right? I did. Because they were holding things in Bitcoin and like, lost a ton of money or because they sort of built in their models and their expectations that they would actually be more user growth, and they would be off to some start where, maybe it's still very much in the building phase and the third part. And maybe you haven't seen that so much. But I think if the Price
continues to be that low. Maybe it will also come, is that maybe it will become more difficult to raise investment money. And it may be to some extent. We're seeing that already. Did you see those same things happening like that? We have, you know, first of all, startups, losing money, because they're holding Bitcoins that you know, may be increasingly difficult fundraising environment and also just that the growth isn't maybe as high
as it was expected. So that as a consequence we will See a ton of projects and startups. Fail this year. Yeah, projects sometimes should fail. And that's a healthy thing. Those people should go and work on other things. That money should be used for other stuff. I don't think that the price necessarily is going to correlate with the ability to find funding. I think that the price correlates with the requirement
to find funding. I think that, when the Bitcoin price is high companies that are full-on believers in Bitcoin, don't need any funding. And when the price is low, that's the opportunity for four You know, people to essentially
buy into them. So yeah, I think that there will be, you know, it's an opportunity is the way that I kind of look at. And I think a lot of people are going to be looking at is that with valuations like this, you can buy Bitcoin a lot cheaper, but ultimately, it doesn't matter because nobody prices in Bitcoin if you're creating a start-up right now, your denominating your cost in dollars and it doesn't matter what the price of Bitcoin is
until the at that actual moment. And then it only matters if you're choosing to keep them instead of immediately selling them with a service like bitpay. So, you know, I mean, it's not, it's a healthy environment, it's a healthy environment. Be better if the price was higher because we wouldn't need so much Venture Capital, but I think that it will be even more available now than it was last year.
So we're just about to wrap up. So you mentioned that your role has evolved from a commentator in the space to an actor and actually being involved in in many projects something perhaps it's bright and I have not been so much doing and I do often talked about how we may change our view of the ecosystem. But so we were curious. Where you think your role will be evolving? Where you think, how do you think it would be evolving in the next year with regards to
LTB? And we're going to the other projects that you're that you're working on. I mean I know that a lot of the projects that you've been working on sort of put on the side for lack of time and the fizzled. So how do you see that evolving over the next year? Yeah, that's the, that's the that was the lesson for me for last year is that I took on too many projects and so I backed way way off.
It's the end of the year and basically told everybody that if they wanted to keep me around, you know, having regular time they had to pay me. So that was a good way to clear the decks and now I'm just focused on projects that I really care about. That's that's, I think a lesson that anybody who hasn't yet learned, I would really encourage you to think strongly about is only spend time on things that you really, really care about.
And if you don't care about something enough to, you know, to really really care about it, then maybe it's not the best project for you to be working on. Maybe that's just me though. Like I said, I'm kind of crazy.
I think that my role of let's talk Bitcoin, I don't know how long we're going to do the show, you know I might be doing it for another you know five years might be doing it for another two years might be doing it for another year, kind of depends on how long it's required and even if I stop doing, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will go away. And indeed, it's my intention for all of these things to continue long after I've ceased working on them.
My history is one of working on projects for three to five years and then getting bored and wandering off because all of the kind of basic stuff has happened. So I think That in the future. My role is going to be morphing. In the next year, my role will be morphing from editor-in-chief of let's talk Bitcoin, probably to let somebody who's really
going to do, the job do that. And instead I'll move to curator and chief because as I mentioned in addition to the new collaborative editorial system or building, we're also building curation system that lets you sort out and pull from you, no further down the stack of content creation and then highlight stuff that's good and also builds in you know social
metrics and things like that. So that's a slightly further out version of what we're Doing. But that is where I think I'm going to wind up being because I like to I like to lead from the perspective of laying out the philosophy saying these are the things that we value. These are the things that we do if you want to associate with us associate with us, use this all you want. If you don't then there are lots
of other people out there too. And that's a philosophy that we're carrying over with token lie because I've been talking about token lie as if it's, let's talk Bitcoin. But the reality is that it's an open-source platform that has all of these tools and capabilities built into it that anybody can install and use themselves for free. And really, what we're going to be doing with What?
I think that our future with token Lee is is to create a very wordpress.com style model where if you just you know want to roll your own and use all our tools then by all means go for it. There will probably be some type of App Store available for different modules because again the whole idea here is to enable people to conduct commerce between themselves and each other as they see fit and as is in their own best interest and and then just be play.
So, in terms of the question, you will be focusing on it. It is sort of that question. One of content monetization and things you think will be preoccupying you through the totally. Yeah. That's that's my Edge. That's, that's the itch that I am scratching for myself, personally, but the solution that we are creating is regardless of content creation
content. Creation is a portion of community, but again, it's the reinvention of community in the same way that we used to have town halls and now we don't. Now we have Internet websites, where you can do some of the stuff that you can at a town hall. But you can't do everything and you can't do it in a way. That's trusted often because we don't really know. Identity is a big question on the internet and token solve
that problem for. Now I think that's a, that's a great way of thinking about it. I said of are being invented community and it's interesting how also how that there's a economic interaction, and those incentive things then, you know, become a core part of it. I like to say that, let's talk Bitcoin. Is that what we're doing is we're not growing the world's tallest tree. Let's talk Bitcoin isn't supposed to to become the
biggest website in the world. We're growing a forest and the way that forests grow is that a tree grows to maturity and then it's seeds all around it and then other trees grow up and, you know, grow out, you grow horizontally. Instead of vertically, that's the world that we're moving towards. It's a very decentralized one. And it's because we don't need to be centralized anymore. We can associate with the people that we want and they can be
multiple groups of people. You can have multiple identities, you can have the same identity, you can do whatever you want. All this stuff will be possible in the next couple of years. It's all Mabel by crypto cool. Well I didn't thanks so much for joining us today. It was really great talking to you. Thank you guys. So just briefly. Again if regarding an inside peek concerts inside Bitcoins,
the d.e.a. March 5 the 6th 56th and coupon code was epicenter, IBC, all length Capital so you get 15% off. So, thanks so much for listening and if you want to support the show, of course, the nations are appreciate it, Epson, become.com session tips. You can also subscribe to a newsletter at Epsom Derby. Kind of concessions letter and give us an iTunes review. And that's all. So thanks so much and we look forward to be back soon.