My Uncle Was Stealing From Our Business for Years

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is Entree Leadership, where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, with over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches. Right alongside you. If you've got a question you want to ask, well, if you want to be on the show, fill out the form at EntreeLeadership.com slash ask or call and leave us a voicemail at 844-944-9444.

That's 844-944-1070. Lee is in North Dakota. Hi, Lee. How are you? Hi, Dave. Thanks for giving me an opportunity to speak. Sure. How can we help? Well, I am an owner-operator of a service industry business and we turn about $4 million in revenue a year. Um, what's unique is I am a fourth generation, uh, in, in the industry. My great grandfather started the business in 1954. Very cool. Yeah.

Yeah, a lot of people love the context of that after I work for them. It's a real good opener for conversations. I bet. But anyways, so I'm... now in the process of taking over the business from my father and through his career there's decisions he's made that have been great and there's decisions he's made that out of his own mouth, he regrets. And some of those decisions are still impacting the business today. So my question would really be, how do I navigate handling...

decisions set up by my father, who, if we go back on them, will have profoundly negative consequences. How do I navigate? the transfer of ownership upholding decisions like that that I don't necessarily agree with. Okay, that's pretty vague. I have no idea what you're talking about. So give me an example. For an example of something that he has done that he regrets that I am now receiving the fallout of.

is there was a theft in the business. And throughout that coming out by an employee, throughout that... coming out and the employee apologizing and he was allowed to begin working for us again. And it has been years. But I find that my knowledge of what he did in the past is affecting the way I treat him as an employee. So what are the profoundly negative consequences? How many employees do you have? How many employees do you have? Twelve. Okay. And so how many years ago was the theft?

About five. Okay. And what does the guy do? He is a front counter man, a greeter. What a lot of people would think of him, because they only ever come in for the walk-in service, a lot of people would think of him as the face of the company. Nah. He's always the one at the counter that says hi. He's just a guy that gets them what they want. If somebody else gets them what they want, they don't care. I disagree.

You're attributing you're giving this guy way more power than he actually has I disagree I Mean so I guess you got two options one is get over yourself and forgive him If he's not stealing anymore, and it was five years ago, it's in the rearview mirror. I'm not going to hold it against him. It's a spiritual problem with you and your mirror, right? Or fire him. These are your two options, right? Right. And either one of them is okay with me. I don't care.

I mean, and just go, you know, my dad kept you and I'm sorry, but I still don't trust you. And so we're not, you and I aren't going to be able to work together. I'm so sorry. And here's some severance pay and you're on your way, dude. And, you know. You can be kind and a little bit more flamboyant about it than that. And, you know, a few more words, but you're under no moral or ethical or legal obligation to keep this guy.

He works there at your whim. You own it. And so I'm not going to throw that weight around, but you're not under. And there's not severe negative consequences. I disagree. I mean, there may be one or two people whine a little bit, but it's just go, you know, the truth is I don't trust you. And I get what dad did, and I'm not mad at you. And here's a stack of money to say we're sorry, but I can't work with you. And so...

No sheriff in town, you know? And is that the truth? Am I saying it incorrectly or am I saying the truth? No, you are saying the truth. Okay.

The only thing that you don't know is that he is also family. Oh, well, that's different information. Okay. And so what's his relation? His relation would be... My uncle, not by blood, married to my father's sister. Okay. And how long has he worked there total? About 30 years. Good Lord. So how old is this guy? Uh, 60 ish. Okay. All right. Can we help him retire? Um,

No, probably not. Not to put everything out there, but he also has... is paying lifelong medical bills of, of just, I mean, to have the medical bills are from an illness to have lived past the age of 20 is a marvel in itself. But that takes so much, which is probably why it's so easy to excuse and rationalize and forgive the theft that happened.

Yeah. As far as you know, the theft was a one-time thing. As far as I know, it was skimming off the top of the till repeatedly in small amounts. And it's not going on now, obviously. Right. He hasn't continued since everything came to a head. Well, I mean, Lee, again, there are two options. One is you weigh out everything. 30-year team member, uncle, got 60 years old, got medical issues, and how can I gracefully help him exit and take care of him so that I don't have to...

worry about him stealing from me. Or just, you know, it just becomes you in your mirror going, I'm going to have to say the trade-off here is not worth it, and so I've got to get over myself. And, um, but that, yeah, you're right. That's a, there's a lot of variables in this thing. There's a lot of pieces to the thing that are, that are all, that are all, that are all holding onto this. Yeah. And I, so you kind of get understand why your dad.

did what he did right definitely i do yeah the same reasons that you're not going to fire him today yeah yep and so i'm going to start if it's me You're making $4 million a year. I'm going to start figuring out a way that, because here's the thing. There comes a point that money doesn't buy happiness. But what it does by is options. It gives me options. I'll give an example, okay?

We had a situation where we let a team member go a while back, a long time ago. And it helped us to establish kind of a value here. And I said, let's just... Be generous in the severance and let's be overly nice with the severance. It was a weird situation. It was awkward. I wasn't comfortable with everything, the way it went down. We weren't like 1,000% right. They were 1,000% wrong. It just needed to go away. And so what I told the guy is I said, look.

This is awkward. It's weird. And so I'm going to be like... way crazy generous and sitting with my leadership team they're like that was too much money and i'm like you know when i'm 78 years old or 88 years old on my deathbed i'm not going to regret giving that guy too much money i am going to regret keeping him in the building

And so in your case, I'm kind of going to apply that. I actually did say that, and we do that occasionally. I go, okay, when in doubt, I'm going to be overly generous, and that way... In my old years, I don't look back and go, man, I cheaped out on that guy. I don't live with any regrets on who got paid what here, ever.

I don't have a situation ever in the history of Ramsey that we underpaid someone in one of those situations. I do not have one that I have any regrets about. So because when in doubt, I up it. You follow me? So here you've got a lot of reasons to be crazy generous. A, the guy hadn't done anything wrong today. B, he's 60 years old. C, he's a brother-in-law. D, he's got medical problems. I mean, there's a lot of reasons to pile cash on this. And so I'm going to start talking to him and go.

I want to start talking to you about when you're going to retire, and I think it's sometime over the next two years, and then I'm going to help you with a retirement package that takes care of you, Uncle. and you're going to write some checks to get the guy out of your building and get your life back. It's a trade-off. I see. Or you're going to tolerate it and do this right here and keep putting up with it.

And you're just going to be going. But here's the thing. You would not hire this guy in a million years if he wasn't already working there. Yeah, not if I knew that. No, I wouldn't. Well, in the whole situation, you just wouldn't enter into it again. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And there's just too many things wrong with the whole discussion. This is not a proper hire, which means it is time for him to go home. And so the good news is, is that he is...

approaching retirement age. And so we can have a valid discussion. The customers will understand. The team will understand. He can be treated very gently and you can be very generous. And if I'm you, I'm just going, I'm writing some checks here. cover uh dad's mistake of not dealing with it at the time your dad had an out but he was he was he was compassionate and um

trying to be kind. He was trying to be good to the guy, but in the process, as you said, he set up something he regrets. And so, yeah, he had a way to send him home finally, and it didn't work. He didn't follow through. That's going to cost you some money. It's a cost of buying into this. You get all the benefit of the wonderful story of being fourth generation.

and you get all the downside of being fourth generation. Yeah, sometimes it's hard to live with other people's work. Yeah, but it's what you're signing up for. And, you know, if I was you, I would trade it. I think it's a fair trade. I get to be the fourth generation doing this, but the crap, the price of admission to be me is I got to deal with his uncle. Yeah.

And, you know, so there's always an upside and a downside on the scale. And I think the scales tip in your favor still. I think the price of admission to BU is a good price. I like it. I'd BU. So I would, but I'm going to start talking to the guy. and say, hey, we got to start talking about when you're going to leave and how I'm going to take care of you so you're able to leave. And then you got to figure that out in a way that is generous but reasonable.

to your company and has an end to it. It doesn't go on forever and ever. Not like I'm going to pay you your salary for the rest of your life to not be here. That's not what I'm talking about. But if I was firing this guy. I might give him two years pay. So we might start trying to figure out instead of firing him, we're going to call it retirement and we're going to get him to volunteer for it. And we're going to give him three years pay. I don't care.

Uh, he probably didn't make that much anyway. And so, um, you know, you can do a lot of things and he, he goes on and does something else and, or whatever, but yeah, ouch. It's going to be a hard conversation regardless of what you do, but I think it's a hard conversation you're going to have to have. And that's one of the days when leadership sucks. And there's a lot of days when leadership has to have the shovel out.

with the manure and nobody else shovels, but leaders, that's who does it. That that's part you, you just hold your nose and get the shovel out. And that's, man, I'm sorry. That part I hate, but that's an interesting discussion though. And, um, Note to the generation before if you clean the stable You don't have to ask your kids to do it when you hand it off next So do your job as a leader

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Naftali is with us in New York. Hi, Naftali. How are you? Hello, and thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? Good. So first a little bit about my role in company and why I'm asking the question today for some contact. So I'm the chief of staff, second in command at an organization that's been providing services, support, and hope.

to people going through challenges for over 25 years and we primarily serve individuals with special needs and their families as well people facing behavioral and mental health challenges now we've grown to thousands of employees across multiple business units and disciplines, and our size is probably comparable to Ramsey Solutions. But there's one caveat, we're spread across five regional offices with site-based programs.

and thousands of home and community-based employees. Now, why I'm interested in this today, because I've spent two incredible days at your headquarters last week, and what struck me... most was how deeply the culture runs throughout the organization at every level. Now, I've heard about the Ramsey culture for years. As I mentioned to you last week in person, that I've been following your financial advice for over 20 years.

since a roommate in yeshiva was reading the total money makeover and i was able to put my hands on it and i was hooked ever since and i've joined the enteral leadership team about eight years ago but getting to actually see it feel it and experience Experiencing it in person made a huge impression. Now, one thing I heard over and over from every person I spoke with was that everyone is a culture creator. And that idea really stuck with me.

Now, my question is, how can a large company create that kind of culture if it didn't start as early as you did? That's a very good question. Thank you for calling. I appreciate it. I think it's a Herculean task. I think it's going to be a large task, and it's going to take some time.

and it's going to take a lot of calories. You're going to burn a lot of calories doing it. The only thing I can assure you is it's going to be worth the trouble to get there because it's just such a joy to work with people. only people that are bought in and aligned and sold out for the cause. The good news about what you guys do is it's just such a wonderful service and it's, it's compassion. You draw in you.

The people that want to go to work there are compassionate people because they want to serve your clientele, and that just means you've got good people. Very few people in your bunch are... They're just for the paycheck. They have a compassionate heart. They have a nursing heart, a caretaker's heart, and they wouldn't be doing it. So that's good news. Yes.

So it's not just the size of the company and not just that you're starting later. Those two things are an obstacle. The third obstacle is they're spread out all over. That's going to add to the complexity as well. So I think you're going to have to have some patience and just do the way I would view it is like the pressure of water building up behind a dam. It's hydrostatic pressure.

And we just keep building the pressure, building the pressure, building the pressure, building the pressure. There'll be leaks that spring out in a good way, and eventually there'll be a breakthrough. And you'll see kind of a flood. But I think you start with your key leaders. You pull in the leadership team.

which I would guess with what you're describing, you probably have a leadership team of 100 to 200 people, right? So we have the top layer and then mid-level management, which is about 100 people. Okay. Yeah, I would start with those 100. say and you know let's break out into a few groups and start establishing exactly what our core values are not what we wish they are this is who we are

And if you're going to work here, you're going to be a we. You've got to do those things, be tied to those core values. And then we go about creating a culture that is aligned to those core values as leaders within our leadership team. And then we start talking to the rest of the team and it's integrated into the hiring process. So as you have attrition and someone leaves to go work somewhere else or gets married or dies or whatever else and they leave, you add someone else, they're added in.

And from day one, you're hiring them to be someone that creates culture that is aligned to these stated core values. But it's going to be incremental. I mean, it starts with the leadership team, and then you start having them systematically work with everybody and get buy-in. This is who we are, and you don't get to stay here if you're not a...

We. So Malloy took over Ford, and Ford was going broke several years ago. And he turned it around, and he established that there's some things that we are going to do. And if you want to be a we, if you want to be working here, you're going to do those things. Now, Ford is obviously a huge organization. It's obviously a... You know, and he obviously was coming late to the party, and it's obviously spread all over the place.

But he just made a statement that this series of values, here's some activities, here's some things we do, here's some things we don't do. And if you're a we, if you want to work it forward, This is what we do. I like the comparison to Malloy and Ford because we're late to the party. We're 25 years into this. Yeah. So, yeah, he said he had regional managers, and he said, all the regional managers at Ford have to be in my office for the next year.

Tuesday for a meeting and one of the regional managers called up and said well I can't do that and he said well all the regional managers at Ford are going to be in my office on Tuesday. And the guy goes, well, I can't do it. He goes, yeah, I know, but all the regional managers at Ford, if you want to be a we, you're going to be here Tuesday. And how do we define what the...

is. Is that the... That's the core values. That's the values. And how do we get to take a crack of them? Because we tried it a couple of years ago, and we chose some aspirational values to use Patrick Manchioni's language. That's a mistake. And apparently it's stealth. flat. Well, it's a mistake because it's what you wish you were, not what you are. So you say, when we are our best version of ourselves, and we make a decision on hiring and firing.

Or we make a decision on an HR thing. What drove that decision? And it could be something like... When you say we, when you say we, is it... I'm talking with your leadership team. We owe the 12... That's fine. You can start there. You can start there and do an offsite with them and say, we're going to establish who we actually are, not who we wish we were. And in a good way.

These are the positive things that allow us, when we're the best version of ourselves, this is who this company really is unless we're screwing up. Now, I'm not saying we're identifying our weaknesses. Everybody can do that. That's a different exercise. But when we are operating properly in our best selves, this is how we do our values. And these are our four.

Values are five or ten values. I don't care how many you got but but write them down and work on them It's and it's actually a pretty emotional exercise. We've done it a bunch of times and but it clearly establishes then If something or someone is not aligned with that, they can't stay unless they get aligned. So you're opting out. You're saying, I'm not willing to do that. Then you're opting out. You're making a decision to not be here anymore.

Instead of saying to people, you need to do this or you need to do that, instead you say, this is who we are. If you want to be here, you can select to be here by doing this. If you don't do this, you're selecting to not be here. And that gives them the dignity of choice then all the way up and down the ladder. But yeah, you could start with your top 10 or 12 leadership core leaders, whatever it is.

15, whatever, and do an off-site for a day and do these exercises. It's not going to be perfect, but it's better than not doing anything and you ask how to do it. It's going to be a large task. You're going to do it over and over and over again.

for as long as you operate and It'll get more and more defined and more and more clear More and more people will have a history in this discussion, and then you change your onboarding, you change your hiring to match up with those values and say, you're not a cultural fit. This person doesn't fit here culturally because they don't think like we do. They don't want to do things the way we do them. And so you're not a we. You're not going to get to be a we. We're not going to hire you.

And that changes then because now you're putting people in there that already are aligned and they're easily going to do it. So it'll probably take you five years of messing with this pretty regularly and constantly with hydrostatic pressure. to get the needle to move. And I think you can do it. I gotta tell you, it's gonna be a hard task, it's a doable task, and again, it's worth the trouble.

because it creates the cleanliness in the environment to where people can know what is expected, know what's safe, know what the guardrails are, and I can go 100 miles an hour as long as I stay inside those guardrails. But I can't go two miles an hour if I get outside them. And so the trust has increased. Relationships are deepened.

and productivity goes up speed by which you get things done goes up so it's worth all the trouble but man it you know what you're setting out to do and you're being wise about how you're analyzing it and you you identify the variables that are against you. But I think you can do it. And again, I do think it's worthwhile to pull this off. So if I'm you, have at it, brother. Thanks for calling.

Our question of the day is from Austin in North Carolina. Dave, my team has multiple generations working side by side with different expectations about work, communication, and leadership.

How do you lead across those differences without playing favorites or losing your core culture? Their expectations about work, communication, and leadership... not a concern that's a nice way of saying I don't care what their expectations about those things are what I care about Austin is what your expectations are My expectations as the owner of Ramsey about work is that you do it. We have work ethic. We roll up our sleeves. We get crap done. We work at work. And you work while you're at work.

You're not checking your personal Facebook all day long. And so I don't really care how old you are or what generation you are or. whatever, you know, whatever influences you had that's irrelevant. My expectation is that we work. My expectation about communication is that we do a lot of it all the time. Even when it's uncomfortable. Even when it's an uncomfortable conversation. A conflict.

We just communicate, communicate, communicate, communicate. We talk all the time. To be unclear is to be unkind. And I don't care if you're 22 or 42 or 62. I expect that, and I'm going to give you that. And I'm going to give it to you in equal doses. And so, you know, well, you need to be more gentle with the Gen Zers. No, you don't. You need to tell them the truth. And if they can't handle that, they don't need to be here.

And, well, the boomers expect, I don't care. I'm going to tell them the truth. And if they can't handle that, they don't need to be here. Well, the extras, I don't care. I'm sorry I'm not being mean but you're coming at this like you're going to keep all of them happy unique to their little nuanced crap and their generation. And I can take into consideration how they will hear it and how to communicate to them based on what set of ears and eyes they're using.

Are they a boomer like me? Are they an X or a Z, a millennial? What are they? And, you know, so I can take that into consideration and how I'm going to communicate with them, but I'm still going to say communication matters. And leadership matters. Leadership's still service. Leadership's not a position with a corner office, and I get to tell people what to do. That's just a boss. Bosses push, leaders pull.

Leader's job is to serve. Leader's job is to knock down blockers so the team can get their stuff done. Leader's job is to, you know, take care of the... high conflict situations and solve them so that everybody can get back to work. Job is to shovel out the manure and keep the drama out. My job is to lead and show the way and have some vision. And that's my job is to lead. And if they don't like that, then they shouldn't be here regardless of their age. And so...

You know, we don't, well, you can't do that with millennials. Yeah, you can. Yeah, you can. If you hire millennials and they know that that's what's expected. We expect you to work. Well, millennials want to work from home. I don't care. then they can work from home, but they can't work here because we don't work from home. We work from work. So this is who we are. And so they don't get to set it because of the set there.

expectations upon the organization. The organization sets its expectations upon them and they conform or they're not a we. And that's not being mean or dictatorial or autocratic or any of that. It's just being consistent. because otherwise you're running a freaking beauty parlor and you're having to treat the blondes different than the redheads and you can't keep up with all the freaking drama. You cannot figure this out.

And it's like, okay, now I have to remember, they're Gen Z, so I can't tell them the truth. Okay, they can't, you can't handle the truth. You know, what is it? What is the deal here, right? Of course you can handle the truth. And so maybe you're just not a grown-up and we got to talk to you about that. But I run into that with 55-year-olds that are still emotional children. That's not unique to an age group.

So, yes, the different age groups have different tendencies. They have different things that their generation remembers as important or not important. The C's and millennials, for instance, grew up with a magic wand in their hand, and so they're very abundance-oriented because they think if they push a button on their phone, magic stuff happens, like stuff shows up on their front porch. You can get the answer to any question.

I mean, it's like a magic wand in their hand. They think anything's possible because for them, if they push a button, anything's possible. And that's the good news. The bad news is they're impatient because they're used to Amazon delivering it that afternoon. They're pissed if it waits till morning to get there.

And so some of these things take time. You've got to cook some stuff in the microwave, but you also got to cook some stuff in the crock pot. Welcome to business. And so barbecued microwave, there's no such thing as good. There's only one way to make barbecue right. Cook it long. And I don't care if you're a Z and you're impatient, you're used to Amazon delivery. If you want good barbecue, you got to cook it all over the weekend, smoke it to where the neighbor's dog is howling.

That's when you get good barbecue. Beep! is not the sign of a good microwave, I mean, not the sign of a good barbecue, okay? That's not where it comes from. And that doesn't matter what generation you're from, but you might not understand that if you come from a generation that's used to having things instantly show up in your life. And so we just have to talk about it. That's okay. But I'm not going to reset based on their expectations of work. Otherwise, there would be no work.

I'm not going to reset based on their expectations of communication. I expect high levels of communication even when it's uncomfortable, and I deliver that. And I expect that out of everybody here.

Period. So I love this. This is cool. And we do not play favorites across generations in our core culture. Now, what I do look for... with generational differences is the strengths of a particular generation to add value to a project or a situation. For instance, I'm a boomer. I'm 65 years old. Digital and phones are not native to me. A black rotary dial phone with a cord on mama's kitchen wall is native to me.

Okay, so I don't get the way your brain works if you grew up your whole life with a magic wand. And so if I'm producing a product that's going to be on a phone, that's a digital product, I don't expect me. to be the best person to add value to that i expect someone who it's their native tongue

their native language, their native mindset to add value to that. And so I'm really looking for some Zs and millennials to be sitting in the room when I'm working on that project. And I really do care deeply about what they say. And some of us dinosaurs need to learn from them because we're working on a product that is native to them. If I'm publishing a printed book, a hardback book, that's one of those things that you read in.

If you haven't seen one in a while, and sometimes they're on your mother's coffee table if you haven't seen one in a while. If I'm doing that, I've produced between Ramsey personalities and me. uh, some about a hundred number one bestsellers. So I don't really need your opinion on that. I know my generation knows how to do that. And that is native to me. Very easy for me to get my head around a book and book marketing and so on.

Now, it's marketed in a different set of venues. I have to deal with Amazon now. I have to deal with the fact there's hardly any bookstores left open. I have to deal with a bunch of other things. The stuff we did, the marketing processes that we used have changed. Building and writing and selling a hardback paper book is something I know how to do. So I don't mind the other people of my age group being in the room, adding value to that conversation.

And I might discount your knowledge if you think all digital is better, because it's not always better. Sometimes it is. So anyway, that way, but who can add value to the project based on their generation? And who has less to say about it based on their generation? I should have less to say about a digital product because I don't even know how the freaking things work. I have to have somebody hired to just fix the things I break. And so, you know, that...

I'm incompetent, even though I own the place, to do that. And I need to be aware of that and lean into the generation that it's native to. So that's one way I will acquiesce, if you will, to the generational thing. But otherwise... They don't set the stuff here. We set the stuff here and they conform. All generations do. Equally, and there are no favorites other than you might be a favorite if we're working on a project that you would...

Your generation would know more about than mine would or vice versa. So there might be a favorite that way, but that's not age discrimination. It's just actual understanding who has something to add value to the project and who doesn't. So, you know, there you go. I mean, if you're going to make really good biscuits and you were raised north of the Mason-Dixon line, I don't know. I'm questioning whether you know how to do that or not.

You know, so we can discriminate based on that. That's a joke. You guys can write me letters later if you want. It's okay. But anyway, so. whatever i mean southern people do some things northern people do some things right so there's there's stuff you can distinguish like that but they don't get to set the tone of the core value and the core culture

And they don't get to set the tone of how we do things. They just get to add value within the framework of the tones that we set. And they conform to that, and they love it, by the way, because it's very, very clear.

People just want to know where they stand. They don't want to be coddled. I take that back. Some people want to be coddled. But the people that work here... don't want to be coddled they just want to know where they stand you don't fit in here you're not a we if you want to be coddled because i just learned how to spell coddle a few weeks ago so it just doesn't it's not an option it's not something we do

So we love you. We want to work with you. We want to get the best from you. We want to hear your ideas. We want you to plug in, use your stuff, and we want you to be learning and adding value and communicating and working your butt off and so on. And leaders serve. Leaders aren't to be served. As Simon Sinek says, leaders eat last, not first. And if you don't believe Simon Sinek, it's in the Bible too, by the way.

So, yeah, I think it's fine. But I think you're going at the question wrong is my point, Austin, is we're going to set the tone and let them conform. And we're going to do that with a lot of humor and a lot of fun and a lot of clarity. but also unbendable, inflexible on that. When you work here, you work. I work. When I'm in the building, I'm working. I'm not screwing around.

And so my team has no question that I'm going to be on time and I'm going to get the production stuff done and we're going to do whatever we got to do. And they know I'm going to do it. They know I'm going to show up. They know I'm going to do my part. So they do their part. It's just respect is all that is. And so that's cool. It's a good question, Austin. Thank you for writing that in. I like it. Good little rant you let me get on there. I like it. A lot of fun.

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Push that little five-star one right there after all the five stars, all the stars. Not half the stars, not part of the stars, all the stars. And leave us a nice note. All those things help move the show forward on the algorithms and the various platforms. and um or so i'm told uh by the smart people and um it's working because a bunch more of you are listening than used to so thanks for hanging out with us we appreciate you being here alex is in birmingham hey alex what's up

I'm doing fine, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Thank you. Thank you so much for taking my call and thank you for all the insights and the principles you have showed and presented to us over the years. About 20 years ago, I started a small business here, and we are operating a lot following your principles. We are a debt-free company. Cool. With about 25 employees.

We have set aside as a company two different buckets, for the lack of better words. One is a savings bucket and one is an emergency fund. The savings bucket has in it about $3 million. Emergency funds, it's about $1 million. Last year, $6 million. This year, we already passed the $6 million. We're on our way to $9 million. Way to go. Proud of you. What kind of business is this?

It is in the low voltage sector. Oh, man. Good for you. Well done. You guys are working your tails off, man. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. The question that I have for you, though, is... We have allowed a company. I'm not schooled into the whole financial, how to invest and how to do things. I'm a hard worker, but I know where I... belong. And we have hired other companies that could handle some of those money. So the $3 million that is a savings.

makes about $60,000 a year. It is in that portfolio that a wealth management company manages. And then the $1 million, which we use it for, like I said, it's an emergency fund. That one is in a money market and makes up a 4%, give or take. The question that I do have for you is, is that a good approach to that? Or should I look into something different? Is that a good...

return, should I start buying properties and houses and other things that I'm not necessarily comfortable with handling? Yeah. Well, the problem with that is if you need the money for the business, it's money for the business. And if it's tied up in real estate... You can't get it out, right? So did you say you made $60,000 on $3 million? So when I look...

at the thing, when I look at what it does, obviously, it's invested in the stock market, so you, you know, give and, you know, take and ups and downs. I mean, $60,000 a month? It says... there that obviously is invested in things but when i look at it it says that it will the amount the worth the net worth of what what it has been made it will be like 60 000 and i'm thinking

That's 2%, man. Yes. There's nothing that should have made 2%. Crap, you could have got that on a high-yield savings account. You could have got 4%. So that's not invested. Nothing has made 2%. I mean, in a year? Yes, sir. Okay. There's something wrong, don't you think? You ought to be making more than 2%? I do, and I'm...

You know, those are money and savings. In my mind, at least initially, I was thinking if I don't lose them, at least I'm okay. You know, I have made those, I put them on the side. But on the other hand, they are in a...

stock market, I could lose them for that matter. You're not going to lose all of them, but it's going to be up and down more than a high-yield savings account. So what I would be doing is, in your case, is I would have the million. in a high-yield savings account. It'd be earning about four, four and a half, five, somewhere in there, okay? And I would have the three million invested in some basic...

you know, growth stock mutual funds, even an S&P 500. But you would have made a whole lot more than $60,000 if you were invested in something like that. So we've got a portion of our retained earnings.

in something like an s p 500 index fund or a basic mutual fund okay so what happens there is it's going to range it's going to do what the stock market does which every five or six years loses a little bit, and the rest of the time it makes something and almost always makes more than the stupid high-yield savings makes.

So you're going to hover in the 10%, 12% range. The last two calendar years, 24 and 23, you would have made 20% on your money. But that's not normal. But that would have been $600,000. Yeah, for sure it doesn't do that. Yeah. And so that's where ours is parked. I mean, if we had $3 million sitting in a S&P 500 over $23 and $24, we would have made $600,000 a year on it.

and per year. And now this year, maybe not. This year has not been as radically cool, but it's not down. I mean, we're fine. We're making money. You know, sit down with a smart investor pro. Go to RamseySolutions.com and sit down with one of them and talk about where I can park this money that follows the market. Now, here's the thing. You put $3 million in there. You might look up one year.

And it's 2.7. You might look up another year and it's 3.6. But you're not going to, you don't have a situation in the stock market history where you're going to have zero. Yes, sir. okay so um but i you know if you can make 10 on it on average you know or even eight percent it's a lot more than the high yield savings and you can handle a little bit of volatility because honestly if something comes up and the thing's at 2.9 because it's down a little bit right then instead of up 600 it's down 100

that doesn't break your back. It doesn't put you out of business. So if you had to dip into it. So the times that you're going to dip into that $3 million, you're going to have a long... notice number one you got a million you're going to go through before you get to it you'd use the other million the original million first

before you got to it and the other time would be like we're buying something we're buying another business out or we're buying a huge piece of equipment that we want to double our dadgum production or something like that and so we're going to pull a million dollars out of there then you could look at that and go

Well, I can wait a month to do that, and let's see if this market rebounds a little bit. It's, you know, Trump burped or something, so we've got to worry about the market for the next 30 minutes. But that kind of thing. But you can afford a little bit of volatility there because you've got a lot of lead time before you would get to that 3 million. So that's how we do our retained earnings. We break it apart between...

We keep some money very liquid that we can get to that's completely safe like a high-yield savings and then we've got some others in basic growth stock mutual funds. So sit down with SmartVestor Pro. If the wealth management people are not making you but $60,000 on $3 million, there's a problem. Something's wrong. You need to learn what's going on.

You need to figure that out. You got $3 million worth of lessons you want to learn there. You want to know what's going on. And don't say, well, I'm not good enough. I'm not smart enough to learn this. It's not that hard. A good person in the financial advising world can teach you the basics where you can feel comfortable with your own decisions instead of just holding your nose, closing your eyes, and trusting that they're driving the car well.

Don't ever do that again. So find out what's going on with your guys. Talk to the Ramsey SmartVestor Pro in your area and compare. And then decide if you're going to stay with your guys and learn what they're doing and they're going to do a better job or are you going to move this? And that's what I would look at doing. So, hey, really good question, man. Very cool. Congratulations on your success. I'm very proud of you.

Very well done. Folks, remember better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. This world needs more high quality leaders. So take courage and lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us on Entree Leadership.