Losing Our Marbles

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Your episodes come out on like Friday, Saturday. And so Saturday morning, I queue up the episode and I drive to work and drink my coffee and listen to Endless Breath. And when you're not doing that, you're watching Jenna Marbles videos. You know, just not as much anymore, unfortunately. This is our listener, Melanie Solis. We were talking to Melanie because she wrote us a long email with an idea for an episode.

And we were into it. My story suggestion is about the YouTube community and the following of Jenna Marbles, aka Jenna Murray. I do follow the r slash Jenna Marbles thread on Reddit where the community keeps... Jenna Marbles, as you may know, was a popular YouTuber in the 2010s, like 20 million subscribers popular. Then, five years ago, she posted her last video and never posted again. I was inspired by the recent episode you did about Shaq. Is he okay?

I have always felt the same about Jenna Marbles after she essentially left the internet a couple years ago. How's she doing? And is she doing okay? We grew up with Jenna and I just miss her. I know the internet does too. She was always so relatable. And I think especially now we need that more than ever. Hope to talk soon, Melanie slash Mel Pickles.

After we got Melanie's email, which she signed with her Reddit username, we gave her a call to talk about it. Set the scene for us, would you, Mel Pickles? Sure. So I guess I first... Melanie told us that part of the reason why Jenna is so important to her has to do with the time in her life when she found Jenna's videos. In 2010, not long after Jenna's first viral video, a silly...

makeup tutorial. She'd come out with that one how to trick people into thinking that you're good looking. In that video, Jenna's in a dimly lit room. At the beginning, her bleach blonde hair is unbrushed, her face is bare. By the end, she's wearing a full face of makeup, heavy black eyeliner tracing the whole circumference of her eyes, her eyebrows drawn in.

It basically looks like she's using one of those TikTok filters, like the insane amount of makeup TikTok filter. Now remember, there's no cure for ugly, but you can make yourself into a human optical illusion. Clearly, the video was not an actual tutorial. The silliness resonated with Melanie, who was just a few years younger than Jenna. I also was...

in college. So going out and being very social and going to bars and things. And I saw that Jen Marbles was working at bars and she was a go-go dancer. And I just thought it was so fascinating. Jenna references her work as a go-go dancer in that How to Trick People makeup tutorial. She cuts in a clip of herself fake sobbing and clutching her diploma from Boston University's sports psychology program. The next step is go out and get yourself a job that's super degrading.

I picked dancing in my underwear. Before I go to work, I like to pump myself up by crying over my master's degree. She felt like a big sister, like an internet big sister or something. But it sounds like, interestingly, she wasn't like an intentional mentor, right? Like, she wasn't like, you should do this. She was just like, I'm doing this, right? And so, like, you kind of could look towards that or up to slightly, very slightly up to it.

Yeah, I guess, you know, like, like a sister, like they're not trying to be your mentor, but you're always looking at them being like, okay, is this okay? Okay, is this not okay? Okay, they're pushing the envelope. Okay, you know. Do you remember any other specific videos that stayed with you or that you felt were kind of emblematic of the Jenna Marbles aesthetic? and humor? The first thing that comes to mind is like the way that she would talk to her dogs. Oh, say more.

She just had this certain quirk and this kind of squeaky voice that she would do when she would talk to her dogs. Marbles is the oldest one here. Marbles is almost 28 years old. In dog years. I thought she was funny and really honest. I guess I really appreciated how honest she was. She didn't really like filter herself. She would swear. What you're describing of her behavior feels peak early era of YouTube to me, right? Like there was a time at which people were doing this.

And it was sort of like agnostic of audience. They were just like, I'm just going to be mean. I'm going to turn on the camera and this, this is, that's what I'm going to do. Right. Yes. I agree. Totally. And now in 2025, like people don't. really think that way anymore like they think YouTube and they're like they immediately think about influencers or YouTube stars or whatever exactly there was no she was not an influencer she just was like here's a day in my life

Um, here's me putting car lashes on my car. Oh no, I have a boot on my car. Now I have to go pay for it. You know, here, oh, I gotta go, go, go dance tonight. Like it just, it was just like her life. And I just thought it was like.

fascinating. Jenna posted vlogs every week. They became part of the rhythm of Melanie's life. Even if, as Melanie got older, Jenna's antics stopped hitting the way they once did. The weird crafts and making a chair out of pants. People were tweeting this jean chair at me nonstop because you know I will make it. There was just some weird stuff that was just not for me anymore.

Melanie was comforted by the feeling that Jenna and her videos would always be there. Except they wouldn't. In June of 2020, something happened that shocked Melanie. and Jenna's millions of other fans. Jenna announced that she was going on indefinite hiatus, and she hasn't posted a video since. So what was your experience of how that ended? Yeah, just it made me a little bit sad. Like I didn't quite have that like mentor anymore for this next stage of my life now. you know getting married and

moving into the big girl apartment and just, and just having all of that, like your, your college party lifestyle is very different than now. And speak for yourself, Mel Pickles. Mel Pickles doesn't Mel Pickles quite as hard anymore. Ain't that the truth. In 2020, Melanie was actually going through it. She was struggling as a teacher during the pandemic, and her parents were getting divorced. And then, you know, not that I always relied on Jenna, but then it's like I log in for my comfort.

YouTuber and she's leaving. And I'm like, wow. I just, I felt really, really lost. Melanie is far from the only one who's kept thinking about Jenna. Five years later, there is still a very active community on Reddit devoted to Jenna Marbles, with several new posts revisiting her work and discussing how much she has missed every single day. So we took Melanie's question seriously, because now we too wanted to know, where is Jenna? What's she up to? Is she okay?

In the process, we discovered questions that kind of flummoxed us even more. Like, why did she even leave the internet in the first place? And we learned a lot about what she gave the internet, the community she built. and some lessons about when to walk away. I'm Anne-Marie Sievertson. I'm Ben Brock Johnson. And you're listening to Endless Threat, coming to you from WBUR, Boston's NPR. Today's episode... Losing our marbles.

Okay, if you were like we were and somehow not super familiar with Jenna Marbles. Even though she was at one point the personality behind the second most popular YouTube channel in the entire world. Let us explain. Jenna Marbles, real name, Jenna Mori. Burst onto the scene in 2010 with that makeup tutorial Melanie had loved. She picked her nom de YouTube as an homage to her dog, a Chihuahua rescue named Marbles, who lived with her and some roommates in an apartment in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

That year, the most popular YouTube account belonged to another comedian, Ryan Higa, with nearly 2 million subscribers. Ryan Huga? Yeah. I didn't know. I didn't know him. I know. I know the name Jenna Marbles, but I had never heard of Ryan Higa. Me neither. Clearly, we were not spending a ton of time on YouTube during this period, but more and more people were. By January of 2013, Jenna was in the top five of all YouTube channels, with nearly 3.4 million subscribers.

And by June of that year, she had the second most popular channel, with more than 9 million subscribers. Today, in our world of TikTok, Instagram, and Mr. Beast, these numbers might not seem so impressive. But back then, this was nearly a world record in subscribers. Jenna wasn't doing anything super fancy in these videos.

She played with her dogs. You guys want to start painting with your little hands? There were more parody makeup tutorials. I know what you're thinking. How does that girl on the internet look like the bad guy in the Da Vinci Code? And she found humor in the very real struggle. I hate being a grown-up. Oh, and the fuck do mortgages worth? I hate being a grown-up. Oh, I have to do dishes? I hate being a grown-up.

In addition to go-go dancing, one of Jenna's jobs was being the assistant to Dave Portnoy, the founder of Barstool Sports, a digital media company at the vanguard of viral comedy videos with a specialty in being... Pretty bro-y and not PC. After the content she was making on the side went viral, Jenna got her own barstool blog. But Jenna knew she wanted to make videos, not write blogs. She struck out on her own and left Massachusetts for sunny California.

Jenna met Julian Solomita, a fellow YouTuber. They became life partners and creative partners. Together, Jenna and Julian launched a weekly podcast. They bought a house. Even with the trappings of adulthood that had once so comically eluded her, Jenna stayed silly. Like when she was giving this tour of her houseplants. Warning, this video is only for 32 year old ladies and men and non-binary friends that like boring domestic things

She took viewers' suggestions to do ridiculous things. Like, as Melanie mentioned, making a chair out of four pairs of blue jeans. Fans felt like they knew Jenna. They knew her boyfriend. They knew her dogs. They even knew her mom. Jenna also occasionally featured her mom, who earned the nickname The Debbie Machine. Debbie Machine, would you like to make some mom beats with me?

Can I play with it? Just give me like a voice sound so you can be like, yeah! Or just say whatever you want. By 2020, TikTok was a thing. Jenna mostly stuck to her longer form YouTube videos, but she liked the newer video platform as a viewer. Some of her later videos were her reacting to her favorite TikToks. Like all of her other videos, her TikTok reaction reels did numbers.

She remained massively popular. But then, poof. Jenna stopped posting. But why? At first, this seemed like an easy question to answer. We just had to watch Jenna's final video from June 2020. I feel like we're at a time where we are purging ourselves of anything and everything toxic. 2020, the start of the pandemic and a global reckoning with racism, which yielded lots and lots of celebrity apologies, some genuine, some not, on platforms like YouTube, including one...

From Jenna. I also get a lot of tweets from people that are saying like, we love you, you unproblematic queen, which always makes me uncomfortable because I'm a person. Those of you that are familiar with how long I've been on the internet know that that's not true. In Jenna's 11-minute apology, she showed old videos that she now regretted. like one in which she impersonated Nicki Minaj, and others where she was, quote, slut-shamey, as she put it.

I think there was a time when having all of my old content exist on the internet showed how much I have grown up as a person, which I'm very proud of. Jenna explained that she was taking a lot of her old videos down. It offends them now. And if that's the case, where people will watch something and be offended now, I don't want it to exist. In her apology, Jenna doesn't appear to be wearing makeup. Her hair is pulled back. She's in a sweatshirt.

She seems genuinely, deeply sad. And I just, I'm not sure that I want to continue doing stuff on this channel. And I don't want to put anything out in the world. It's going to hurt anybody. So I need to be done with this channel for now or for forever. I don't know. So, all right. Good talk.

So on its face, it seemed like Jenna was leaving because, to use the parlance of our times, she was canceled. But that wasn't quite what happened. At that point, it felt like once a month there was a new apology and they all had little tidbits and trademarks reoccurring. This is Zoe Halock. Now she's an editor at New York Magazine. But back in 2020, she was a staff writer on the online culture beat. She ended up writing about the slew of celebrity apology videos that year.

And she noticed some things that a lot of them had in common. There's a lot of white outfits or sweatsuits, pajamas, grungy clothes to make it seem like they've been trapped inside all week and they are just... devastated over this. In a lot of ways, that does describe Jenna's apology. No makeup, hoodie, tears. Aesthetically, she fits a lot of these boxes. So looking at face value...

You would say, this is just another YouTuber apology. She tried it and move on. But according to Zoe, there were a number of key differences that made Jenna's apology stand out. For one thing, Jenna wasn't vague about how she messed up. The first two things that I would like to address is the fact that there are people that were offended that I did blackface as Nicki Minaj in 2011 and I'll show you the clip.

It's incredibly cringy and embarrassing. This is private. It has been private for quite some time, but it looks like this. So the fact that she presented Everything for people to judge her and then apologized was a little bit more than what everyone else was doing at the time. Some viewers thought that Jenna was doing her Nicki Minaj impersonation in blackface because her skin was darker than its usual tone. Jenna didn't spend time on excuses, though. And that stood out to Zoe.

In 2020, especially as a Black woman, there was a lot of apologies going around. And a lot of, I'm apologizing with the expectation that you accept my apology. And once I apologize, we will now be able to move forward like nothing happened. And that often... came at the expense of the perspectives of the Black people who came forward with why this offended them. No one was demanding that Jenna Marbles leave YouTube. If Jenna Marbles got canceled, she canceled herself.

And she wasn't laying the groundwork for a comeback. If she had come back at any point in the year after she originally left, it would not have been the same. The apology would not have felt as... meaningful or valuable. And the fact that she's gone now this long, five years, I think really speaks to how much she means it. So ultimately it makes me like her more.

Since Jenna's big goodbye, her whereabouts haven't exactly been a mystery. Her husband Julian is a popular Twitch streamer. And he'll occasionally mention Jenna on his stream or on YouTube. He even announced their marriage in 2022. Jenna and I are married. We are a married couple. I can now officially make wife jokes. Julian posted some pictures.

The wedding looks nice. Their dogs are there. Jenna looks happy. Earlier this year, paparazzi snapped pictures of her merely walking her dogs, as if that normal act was some sort of big return to public life. Which it wasn't. It's weird. Nobody's posted photos of me feeding my cat recently. No. But other than still being bugged by paparazzi, Jenna seems okay. So, mystery solved.

Right? Wrong. Frankly, we kind of admired Jenna's decision to leave the spotlight. And it made us want to understand Jenna and how she made this difficult decision even more. We were optimistic that maybe she'd want to talk to us. She got her start in Boston, our backyard. Yeah, we could talk about veganism if she's still following that lifestyle. I want to know. Yeah, I'm interested in learning how to be a go-go dancer and do better with my houseplants.

Yeah, we're a fun hang, I think. So our team tried to search down Jenna's contact information, find her old manager, anyone who could just get word to her. We hoped that if she got our request, she'd at least consider it. We did eventually make contact with someone who, it just so happens, knows a lot about Jenna's career. I think she's funny. I'm her mother, though. What do I know? We talked to Debra Morey, a.k.a. The Debbie Machine. Jenna's mom. After the break.

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Why do they call you Debbie the Machine? Ah, well, this is a good story, and you can hardly wait for it, I know. I was working on a holiday meal with my now son-in-law, Mr. Solomita. It was our first time cooking. And as many of you know, he is celiac. And so we were making dough and making other kinds of things that he could eat. He said, oh, man, you're like a machine. And this is the original machine.

Julian is like, as most of you know, is an Aries and is an on-stop stream of stuff coming out of that young man. So yeah, that's how I got the name from him. Deborah Morey's daughter was once among the most famous people on the internet. And so Debbie's assumption of familiarity with her daughter and son-in-law is perhaps understandable. We asked Debbie to talk to us because, yes, we were hoping she'd put in a good word for us with Jenna. And also, she's a machine. That's right.

Jenna is still, though, passing on interviews and not necessarily psyched to have her inner circle even do interviews about her. But Debbie agreed to talk to us because we really wanted to understand why someone would leave what seemed to be a pretty sweet gig. Debbie knows a lot about career changes. She's advised young people on how to navigate the world of work.

So she told us she could talk about that. You've had a lot of chapters in your life, it sounds like, and in your career. How did you... decide to make a career pivot into YouTube? I just want to say that I'm not here to talk about Jenna or Jenna's life. unless it's from the perspective of the parent. And just so listeners know that if they're waiting for me to tell stories or whatever, that's probably not what we're going to hear here today.

But you can go back and watch old episodes of the podcast or the videos, and I'm on there, and I'm especially charming most of the time. Debbie raised Jenna and her older brother to forge their own career paths, which doesn't mean she wasn't surprised by the path Jenna ended up taking.

My child has a master's degree in sports psychology. I did not expect her to do that. And look, I said to my kids, you go to college, don't go to college. You do whatever you think is good for you. And they were going to be, I believe they were going to be happy when they found what. was important to them. For decades, Debbie worked in the marketing departments of big companies like Kodak. But eventually, she was ready for new challenges. So she left and started her own consulting agency.

entrepreneurship, I guess, runs in the family. So when Jenna needed someone to run her business, her mom was an obvious choice. She called me and said, you know, are you willing to help me? And I said, wow, I, you know.

thank you i hope i can but we better talk about this and make sure that we're not going to screw up our relationship on the basis of something like this so we had a long talk and i basically said look if anything is interfering with our relationship at all I'm going to leave and I will make sure that I'm always positioned to be able to make sure that you'll be okay if I have to go.

So when did you you go from this first video that has just goes, you know, wild and then she keeps making content. When when did it become apparent to you that this was potentially. a career path for not just her, but maybe you. Oh, God. I never thought of it as a career path for me. I would say it was a long time. You know, I think I came to work for her in 2012. So, you know, it was a long time before I realized that she was going to keep doing that.

Maybe I was a little slow on the uptake, but... No, even now I'm thinking like two years from 2010 to 2012 on the internet to last two years making content and still being not only relevant, but gaining momentum. Did it feel like, wow, I can't believe people are watching this stuff? Or did it feel like, yeah, this makes sense. She's got something here. I didn't know that that many people would think she was funny.

I think she's funny. I'm her mother, though. So what do I know? It was startling in that perspective. On the other hand, it's clear to me in hindsight that. Whatever gift she had or did for that period of time, she had something. There was something there.

that was special. There's no question about that in my mind. Debbie found herself working in this brand new entertainment industry. YouTube had launched in 2005, and Jenna was one of the first creators to really build her own following. Did that feel like a much more kind of like Wild West world? Oh, absolutely. In a good way? In a very good way, because a lot of people my age went to work at some kind of a corporation.

and stayed there their whole lives. I did not do that, but a lot of people did. And so this new world was like, wow. Especially for somebody who was an entrepreneur and wanted to be an entrepreneur and could see the power. I wanted the risk. I wanted to take chances. So you are 100% correct about that. We started this episode because of Jenna's deeply dedicated fan base. Debbie knows their dedication more than almost anyone else.

Because one of her responsibilities was reading Jenna's emails, many of whom came from her admirers. Some of them were more... difficult, I would say, in the sense that people were talking about their problems. Young people were talking about their problems and how much... the videos or the shows or whatever were helping them and how much they appreciated that. That was very hard because, you know, I'm a teacher by training and these kids are...

you know, pouring their hearts out to this stranger online. And, you know, it was just very, very difficult. You can tell this was really hard for Debbie and possibly Jenna. This idea of... a whole audience, a massive audience counting on you and wanting to reach out to you and the impossibility of responding to everyone who wanted to reach out.

Look, if I go and help one person, then what about the other 10,000 people that wrote emails that month? And I also had to be aware of liability, right? I mean, that's my job. You wouldn't think that anything would come from saying, you know, I'm sorry to hear that, but...

If the person starts engaging and engaging and engaging, and then we don't respond in some way that's appropriate, quote unquote, whatever that is, which we would have no idea what that is, things can spiral. And it sounds weird, but... That was the way that I could protect them best, I thought. I don't know if I was right, but that's what I thought.

Every video Jenna posted racked up hundreds of thousands of views. 20 million people subscribed to her channel, and even more knew her name. But according to Debbie... YouTube wasn't Jenna's identity. It was a job, albeit a fun one. I will say that right now, when I talked to her about this opportunity, she said, I left that job four years ago. Why are they still talking about it? And I said, yeah, I hear that.

you know i definitely hear that but i think that that she has something very special and creative spark or whatever you want to call what people who influence culture have. If they could name it and call it and put it in a bottle, they would make a lot of money. But the truth is we don't know what that is. While Debbie was helping Jenna run her business, she was also advising college students on their careers. In 2019, Debbie wrote a book.

An Authentic Human's Guide to Finding Meaningful Work. It came out in December of 2020, a few months after Jenna made her career switch. My three criteria for doing anything are, am I having fun? Am I appreciated? And am I learning? There's just three things. If I have two of those, I probably will proceed. If I don't have two of those three, I won't do it.

Do you feel like some of that stuff you successfully also transferred to your daughter? And do you feel like some of that kind of... understanding of yourself and where you're at in life and also kind of like always be looking, do you feel like those are things that maybe contributed to sort of her decision making around her?

both getting into YouTube stuff and getting out of it. You know, I haven't got the foggiest idea. I really have no idea. I don't know. So it seemed like Debbie wasn't going to dig in anymore.

To Jenna's decision. But during our interview, sometimes Debbie ended up expanding on Jenna, even after she said she wouldn't. We're also interested in the story of Jenna because I think... Understanding that story and understanding better why she stepped out of the spotlight is, I think, a good story for people to hear so that they have deeper thoughts about. the problems with how our society creates and deals with celebrity.

Yeah. If that makes any sense. Yeah, it does. I'm not prepared to talk anything about why she stepped away or anything like that, because that's not my story. However, I will say this, that as I see the Osakas and the Simone Biles and other people who are in the public eye talking about taking a break and...

for all the reasons, whatever reasons they want to, that's important. The other thing that occurred to me at the time was, you know, if you're an actor or an actress, when you go on the stage, first of all, you don't do your work alone. You know, you've got a script, you've got people. If you're making a movie, you've got a ton of people all around you. If you're doing a play or whatever, you don't work unless if you're an actor, you don't work unless you get a part.

When you're on YouTube and you're making your own content, there's none of that. Who you are is right there. Which is scary because when people criticize what you make, they are in many ways criticizing you. not a larger project or an institution. But also, maybe, and we don't know for sure, right? But maybe, for Jenna, that was a curse and a blessing.

Because if an actor wants to step away from a project mid-shoot, they're letting down hundreds of people. But Jenna didn't have a huge team to let down. Basically, just her mom and Julian. Did you mourn that part of your career ending when Jenna sort of made her change? What did that feel like? What was that like? Well, I think it's an interesting question. So, you know, the first time I got fired, it was really hard. The second time I got fired, not so much.

The third time I got fired, it was like, oh, who cares? I'm better off, right? Are you telling me she fired you? Is that what you're telling me? No, she didn't. But I also told her, if you want to fire me, you can anytime. And I think she understood that she could because of that, because of that attitude that I have. Right. Like, yeah, that makes sense.

It would have been much easier for her to say, look, this isn't working out. And I said, we're not going to debate it. We're not going to go round and round and go, well, maybe if I change. No, no, no, no. If you say I'm gone, I'm gone. And we'll figure everything else out. It's not, that is not the thing.

As a mother, I was relieved, I'll tell you that. So I was relieved that she was going to take care of herself in a different kind of a way. So I was very happy about that. So I would say it was neutral to great. Okay, Emery, we started out this episode with Melanie's question, is Jenna okay? And I think, you know, we kind of got an answer to that. And that led us to also wonder really...

Why did she leave the Internet in the first place, as so many others have wondered, when no one was really asking her to? Yeah, and we might never know the direct answer to that because... Although Debbie was not going to talk about Jenna. She's not going to talk about Jenna. We're not talking about Jenna. She did tell us repeatedly that Jenna was not interested in talking to us. And we totally respect that. But...

What we did learn from talking to Debbie not talking about Jenna is that Debbie, who loves her daughter very much, is happy. And happy that her daughter's YouTube career is, for now, over. As for how Jenna could leave such a lucrative job. She does still have some ads on her remaining videos. Still monetized, baby. They're still racking views from people like Zoe and Melanie, who drop in on Jenna's channel when they're feeling nostalgic.

But also, money aside, we can all relate to not wanting to do the same job forever. And Jenna was doing a job. Yeah, I would not want to be one of the most famous people on the Internet, I gotta say. Well, you know what? Just try it out for a little while. See how it goes. Uh, nope. Maybe you can make a chair out of pants. I'll make my goodbye video before I ever make my hello video. Hello. Goodbye. I would like to not apologize for not doing anything. Goodbye. Cool.

Well, Jenna, if you're out there and if you're listening, you are missed, you are loved, and we hope you're having a good time. Yeah. Have a wonderful life. Endless Thread is a production of WBUR in Boston. This episode was written and produced by Grace Tatter and hosted by me.

Ben Brock Johnson. And me, Anne-Marie Sievertson. It was edited by Meg Kramer. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski. The rest of our team is Dean Russell, Franny Monaghan, our production manager, Paul Vykus, and managing producer, Samata Joshi. Endless Thread is a show about the blurred lines between online communities and 32-year-old ladies.

If you have an untold history, an unsolved mystery, or another wild story from the internets that you want us to tell, you can hit us up. Endless thread at WBUR.com. Org. He's doing that because I told him he was reading too fast. And I was reading nice and slow for all of us. Nice and slow. Yeah. Thank you, Ben. I understand you so much better. Bye. Bye.