Glenn Harper [00:00:00]:
Welcome everyone to another edition of the Empowering Entrepreneurs podcast. I'm Glenn Harper.
Julie Smith [00:00:04]:
Julie Smith.
Glenn Harper [00:00:05]:
What's going on, Julie?
Julie Smith [00:00:06]:
You know, we're back on the coffee kick, I think. It's cold outside.
Glenn Harper [00:00:09]:
I was gonna say it's summertime. You're drinking the hot stuff. What when are you gonna switch over?
Julie Smith [00:00:13]:
It's not really summer out there.
Glenn Harper [00:00:14]:
It's it's June. It's summer. It's summer.
Julie Smith [00:00:16]:
I mean, by the months, but not by the temperatures.
Glenn Harper [00:00:18]:
So Alright. Well, we have a great guest today. Let me do my best on an introduction here. I'd like to introduce you to Naomi Granger, CPA, MBA, the owner of National Association of Cannabis Accounting and Tax Professionals, and owner of Green Leaf CFO. Whether you agree or disagree with the industry she represents, one can agree that she is the bomb when it comes to being the authority in the room with the cannabis space. From starting her career working in 2 of the big four CPA firms, defining her niche, and becoming the leading consultant in her space, who knew that as a state and local tax expert for big pharma Pfizer would result another pharma niche 10 years later? Her passion and desire to help tax professionals navigate this controversial space has been the basis for her success. Why shouldn't professionals advise clients in a space where the rules of accounting and tax apply? Why shouldn't one learn how to thrive in a market that is growing? Why shouldn't a professional be given the opportunity to be a specialist in an industry that provides financial freedom to be the best one can be? Code section 280e is a joy to read, interpret, and advise. These are some of the reasons why Naomi gets up every day and takes on the naysayers and the critics.
Glenn Harper [00:01:26]:
Her passion and excitement are contagious. Please help me welcome Naomi to our show.
Julie Smith [00:01:30]:
Wow. That must that might be the best one yet. Wow. Yeah. You guys are gonna
Naomi Granger [00:01:36]:
have to send that one to me.
Glenn Harper [00:01:37]:
Alright. We've got a recording of that, so that's good. Well, goodness gracious. We appreciate you being on the show. I know you're busy, and especially this time of the year, everybody's making your particular industry, be a hot topic, so I'm sure your time is valuable. We appreciate you being here. And, you know, we like to try to get to know our guests a little bit, but, man, you're a vault. I can't find anything on you.
Glenn Harper [00:01:58]:
What's what's you have something to hide? This is a great time to come clean on things.
Naomi Granger [00:02:04]:
No. Nothing to hide.
Glenn Harper [00:02:06]:
Alright. Well, we're trying to figure out where you're from. Did you grow up in Florida? Where'd you grow up?
Naomi Granger [00:02:11]:
So I grew up in Las Vegas, and then I went to school in Florida.
Glenn Harper [00:02:16]:
That's what's going on. So you're a Vegas, I guess, a local, that's what you'd say. So you don't go nowhere near the Strip.
Naomi Granger [00:02:23]:
I actually live on the Strip.
Glenn Harper [00:02:26]:
Well, you're breaking all the stereotypes.
Naomi Granger [00:02:28]:
Behind the sphere.
Glenn Harper [00:02:29]:
Oh, nice. You get to see that every day.
Naomi Granger [00:02:32]:
Yes. It's beautiful.
Glenn Harper [00:02:33]:
Well, what did your parents do when where you grew up in Vegas?
Naomi Granger [00:02:38]:
Yeah. So my parents worked at the casinos.
Glenn Harper [00:02:41]:
Oh. You
Naomi Granger [00:02:42]:
know, Las Vegas is a 24 hour town. So my mother got laid off from her job when we were I was born in Chicago. She She got laid off from her job. She was tired of the cold and, had a friend in Vegas and saw how warm it was and knew she can easily get a job anywhere, and we ended up here.
Glenn Harper [00:03:01]:
How about that? What did your dad end up doing for a living?
Naomi Granger [00:03:05]:
That's where they met. So they they met at the casino, and, and he delivered he was the delivery driver for a factory that created all of the glass that you see inside of the slot machines. And so he they would create the glass. He would deliver it to the casinos, and and they would build in you know, insert them into the machines.
Glenn Harper [00:03:25]:
How crazy is that? Did you get, did they keep you away from all that growing up, or you were you immersed in that?
Naomi Granger [00:03:31]:
Yeah. I was too I was too young. You have to be 21 or older for the casinos.
Glenn Harper [00:03:36]:
I figured they'd know people and hook you up to get you in on that.
Naomi Granger [00:03:40]:
Well, my mother worked at Circus Circus, so I got to go and play in the circus with all the arcade games and, you know, all the circus games and watch the the circus play every so often. So
Glenn Harper [00:03:52]:
So did they wherever they, were they employed by somebody? They were never self employed. They always had her, like, quote, real job? Gotcha. So will you how did you decide on Florida?
Naomi Granger [00:04:06]:
I was trying to get away. I was trying to go as far away as possible and make sure that I can survive on my own and that I was independent and that I can do this.
Glenn Harper [00:04:18]:
I thought you went there for the humidity, but
Naomi Granger [00:04:21]:
Not at all. I was too young to even really know what was going on. I just knew, oh, Florida. Sounds exciting.
Glenn Harper [00:04:27]:
Well I
Naomi Granger [00:04:27]:
didn't realize there was a difference between Miami, Florida and Tallahassee,
Glenn Harper [00:04:31]:
Florida. Different. Way different. Yeah. You can and even on the just on being on the west side of Florida as well, the Tampa area would be way different. So where is Florida Agriculture Mechanical University at? Where city is that in?
Naomi Granger [00:04:46]:
In Tallahassee, Florida.
Glenn Harper [00:04:47]:
In Tallahassee. Okay. So Yeah.
Naomi Granger [00:04:49]:
Right next to Florida State.
Glenn Harper [00:04:51]:
Gotcha. So you decided at a young age you wanted to be an accountant, which, you know, gets gets me every time, the fellow accounts on the show. But, why did you wanna pick accounting?
Naomi Granger [00:05:02]:
I was really good with numbers, but the English language was another struggle.
Glenn Harper [00:05:07]:
Gotcha. Yeah.
Naomi Granger [00:05:09]:
I was really good in math in school and I didn't really have, I didn't know about all the vast array of different things. I just knew you could be a doctor, you could be a lawyer. Somebody said, oh, you're good with numbers? Be an accountant. And so that's the direction I went.
Glenn Harper [00:05:25]:
Do you think you got that from counting cards at a young age?
Naomi Granger [00:05:30]:
No? No. I wasn't counting cards.
Glenn Harper [00:05:32]:
I was hoping. I was hoping.
Julie Smith [00:05:34]:
She's an accountant. She's very fiscally responsible.
Glenn Harper [00:05:36]:
Well, that that is responsible if you can count Carswell. And then you were you were sitting there doing your accounting degree, but then you decided to get your MBA as well.
Julie Smith [00:05:44]:
Which is what I'm really excited about.
Glenn Harper [00:05:46]:
That's over there. How did you pick that?
Naomi Granger [00:05:49]:
Yeah. Yeah. So it was, the program that I went to went into was an MBA program. So it was a 5 year, where we did our undergraduate and when we did our MBA. And in between that, we did internships to kind of because in order to qualify for your MBA, you have to have 2 years of work experience. So we had extended internships where we would, work. I worked with that's where I worked with Pfizer. I worked with Deloitte.
Naomi Granger [00:06:14]:
I worked with a lot of different companies to get that work experience.
Glenn Harper [00:06:18]:
Did you and, did you enjoy the, as an intern and the work experience at those big companies when I mean, I don't did you ever work at a big company before? Is that your first dabble into that?
Naomi Granger [00:06:30]:
That was my first. It was like a dream, like, walking into Deloitte and, you know, coming from Las Vegas and being in the accounting program in high school. And and one of the teachers was an ex big I think it was 6 back then. And I was like, woah. Like, that was a dream. And then being able to walk into those doors and then, you know, working in New York and, like that was on my first time ever seeing snow and ever going to the northeast. So it was really it was really fun, getting those experiences.
Glenn Harper [00:06:59]:
You did your internship in New York?
Naomi Granger [00:07:03]:
I did.
Glenn Harper [00:07:03]:
Wow. So Vegas, Florida, middle of nowhere, and then all the way up to New York City.
Julie Smith [00:07:08]:
So you didn't like the cold weather, though. I guess we could confirm that.
Naomi Granger [00:07:12]:
Not at all. Luckily, I lived right in Manhattan, and I was, like, a 4 block walk from Pfizer, so I didn't really have to deal with it. But, yeah, I was ready. Because my idea going from Las Vegas to Florida was, oh, if if you have a pea coat, that means it's really cold outside. And so a pea coat it was what I needed, and then I go to New York and the wind and the cold went straight through the pea coat.
Glenn Harper [00:07:38]:
Yeah. That's a whole different different environment. Now when you were doing this and you're working for a living and you're doing your internships and you come out and you work some more at different other places, When did you decide you know, you looked a little bit in your bios and stuff. You decided that, hey, you know, this you were doing some of that space while you're working for these firms. Right? And then you're like, wait a minute. I can do this better on my own. Is that how you came to that that realization? Or
Naomi Granger [00:08:05]:
I, I did those internships, then I graduated, and I had a long career in public accounting. And I worked with, you know, during doing the external audit for some of the public accounting firms. I also did corporate accounting for SEC filings. And then after 12 years, I realized, you know what? I'm tired of being in an office. I'm tired of being in a cubicle, and I'm also tired of asking for permission. If I need a doctor's appointment, I have to get approval to take a day off. Just I was just tired of all of that, and so I ended up going a whole another direction. I thought that, hey.
Naomi Granger [00:08:40]:
I just need to build an online business. I need to learn how to to make websites, or I need to learn how to, you know, do some online marketing. I had no idea how to become a remote accountant. And then I started taking some training on building a remote accounting firm, marketing yourself, and then that's when I stumbled on the cannabis industry.
Glenn Harper [00:09:02]:
So you didn't have an interest in the cannabis industry prior to that. I thought you were maybe doing some of that before. No. You just
Julie Smith [00:09:08]:
did How did you stumble upon it? I I'm curious because did it just, like, jump out at you one day and you're like, oh, that that was a good one.
Naomi Granger [00:09:16]:
I was just, working with my mentor, and one of the things that he, stressed was you have to pick a niche. And so I was I picked a couple of niches. I explored, landing clients in those niches. I wasn't really excited about the people that I spoke to. I was like, oh, this just sounds so boring. And then he mentioned the cannabis niche and that it was emerging. It was up and coming. There's a need for, trained accountants.
Naomi Granger [00:09:44]:
And then when I started dabbling in it and and really doing my research, that's when I I never looked back. It just opened up for me.
Julie Smith [00:09:53]:
So I'm gonna backtrack. You mentioned a mentor, and that's always, you know, something that we ask our entrepreneurs. So this mentor, how did you know them? How did they become a mentor? How did, you know, how did that all come about?
Naomi Granger [00:10:06]:
Yeah. So it was actually just an online training program. I was looking for, learning how to become a remote bookkeeper and how to market myself as a bookkeeper and, an accountant. And I found his training, and I joined his program and that's how he became one of my mentors.
Julie Smith [00:10:25]:
Do you still talk to him today? No. No. I didn't know.
Naomi Granger [00:10:28]:
Uh-uh. He got out of the business.
Glenn Harper [00:10:32]:
You know, it's it's funny. Accountants are, pretty stereotypical, as you know. Right? And, they like to kinda do the same thing that they do and what we do last year and do the same thing. For you to be doing SEC filings, Fortune 500 Companies, New York City, and go, I'm gonna be an online bookkeeper. I mean, that is a major transformation for a CPA.
Julie Smith [00:10:55]:
At this point, where are you living?
Naomi Granger [00:10:57]:
So I was, I I was living in Georgia, Atlanta, Georgia.
Julie Smith [00:11:03]:
Okay.
Naomi Granger [00:11:04]:
And what I wanted that I read Tim Ferris's 4 hour work week, and I wanted the laptop lifestyle. Like, I wanted to be able to be on the beach, have my martinis, and take meetings and, you know, things like that. And so that was always in the back of my head, and I was trying to figure out how to get there. And I didn't know what it was gonna take, but if it meant I no longer could be an accountant and I had to learn how to build websites, that was the direction that I was going.
Glenn Harper [00:11:32]:
Well, and again, it's usually again, it's just it's just interesting to hear because our listeners out there, when you make that jump, you might leave the really cushy, cool job that people would kill to have. You're gonna step back and do something that might not be as glamorous because you want the freedom, not necessarily the money. And then you immediately pivot, and you're back on top doing something in an similar, but way different, which way more specialized. How long did it take you from saying I'm gonna be an online bookkeeper thing to being a specialist in the industry?
Naomi Granger [00:12:07]:
Yeah. So that's a great question. And a lot of times and it you mentioned you leave that cushy, you know, people think it's safe, guaranteed role. Well, I was actually laid off. And a lot of people are in a position where they get laid off, so my hand was forced. I probably would have never left because of the fear of, oh, this is safe and secure, but it's not as secure as we may think, and there's more out there. Like, I was tired of people telling me what I was worth and what role I was gonna play and all that stuff. And so I was unemployed for 2 years trying to figure it out because I was an employee.
Naomi Granger [00:12:42]:
I was trained to be an employee my entire life. I had no idea I had to be an entrepreneur. And so even though I had a master's degree, even though I was a CPA, I went back and I I sought out mentors, and I had more than one. I had several mentors that I worked with that teach me how to be an entrepreneur.
Glenn Harper [00:13:00]:
How about that? So sometimes, you know, people are scared to make the jump. Sometimes they dabble in it, and sometimes you really don't have a choice. Right? And you knew what you didn't want, but you didn't necessarily know what you wanted, but you waited to make it happen.
Julie Smith [00:13:12]:
But, I mean, couldn't you have went and sought a different job in the same realm because at that point when you're laid off, you still have that fear. Right? I'm I'm just guessing. You still have the fear of, like, okay, what's next? So what there had to be a bigger fear of going and getting that same job as an employee than going to figure it out on your own because your skill set was something that was sought after. Right? And so what what do you think the fear of going back to that cushy job that had some everyday, you know, routine to it that made you jump and say, you know what? I'd rather be over here and take a huge pivot.
Naomi Granger [00:13:59]:
So I had already made up my mind that in my last role that this is gonna be my last corporate role. I don't know how it's going to end, but I I I was saving my money, so I had enough money saved. I'm an accountant. I could have lived for 5 years of the amount of money because I I don't have any kids. I don't have any like, I'll sleep on somebody's couch, whatever it takes. But I was I was there. So
Julie Smith [00:14:24]:
Meanwhile, Glenn's got you at the casino counting the cards to make next time's event.
Glenn Harper [00:14:29]:
I was excited for a moment. I was like, hey, maybe we got a savant here. I don't know.
Julie Smith [00:14:33]:
I knew it.
Naomi Granger [00:14:33]:
Yeah. I would've done that probably. No. Yeah. I wanted time freedom. So, you know, I had my money saved. I said, this is my last corporate job, and it's not I'm actually going to give it a try because I knew it wasn't going to be, like, immediate that I was just gonna understand how to be an entrepreneur, how to market myself, how to land clients, all that stuff. I knew it wasn't going to be immediate, but I told myself I'm I have I'm a CPA.
Naomi Granger [00:14:55]:
I can always get a job. Yep. So I am gonna burn through every single dollar and say that I actually gave it a try before I go back and try to get a job.
Glenn Harper [00:15:06]:
See right there. That's why everybody should go get an accounting degree because no matter what, you will always be able to get a job. Might not be the great job, but you can always get a job, which is one of the things that I mean, that's what I heard growing up is no matter what, you will always be employable if you're an accountant because everybody needs accountants. So you already had that Yeah.
Naomi Granger [00:15:25]:
And I actually did. Like, towards the end of those 2 years, I was actually kind of I wasn't at the end of my money, but I was kind of at the end of my rope with thinking, oh, this is just not for me. I'm not I don't know. This is not good enough. And I went into a job interview, and then they offered me $50,000 And I was like, did you not see I have 12 years of experience on my resume. And so then that's when I realized, you know, this is, that's when I really doubled down in everything. Like, within 2 weeks of that, I landed my first client, and they were paying me, like, $1500 a month, and I was like, oh, okay. I just have to get a couple more of these, and I'll be past that 50,000.
Naomi Granger [00:16:07]:
And everything started to turn around for me after that.
Julie Smith [00:16:11]:
So that was the turning point of, like, okay. You've committed to this. No turning back. How long did it take you before you did it take 6 months where you were comfortable and then could start scaling and, you know, growing more where you were comfortable with that monthly income? Or how what how did that go?
Naomi Granger [00:16:29]:
It's always comfortable because I took care I had my savings, and my home was secure. Like, my living expenses were so minimum. I was maybe less than it was less than the $1500 a month. I just had, like, a car note. So I was always comfortable. So I was able I had the runway to be able to take more risk, and invest that money to try to see if I can grow something.
Glenn Harper [00:16:59]:
What did, what did your parents say when you're like, mom, dad, yeah, got laid off. I'm not going back to big companies. I'm gonna try to figure things out for the next 2 years. And then you know what? I think I'm gonna just kinda hang out. And, oh, by the way, I'm gonna get in a very controversial space. Did they say, what is wrong with you, or did they say, go get them, girl?
Naomi Granger [00:17:19]:
Yeah. I didn't really break it down to them because I don't think they would have really understood what was going on. So they knew that I, I had lost my job, but they knew that I was okay because they knew that I was good with money. So they weren't concerned. And then when I started doing cannabis and then they started seeing, you know, I was actually really doing well, they were just happy.
Glenn Harper [00:17:45]:
How about that? So did you, when the Raiders came to Vegas, were you a big fan? Were you excited about that, or was it, like, anticlimactic for you?
Naomi Granger [00:17:54]:
Yeah. I'm not really into sports. I come. Vegas historically was not a sports town, so I never really had a team. It was nice. I was actually you know, during the stadium was being built during COVID, and I was going, jogging around that area watching the whole thing being built, so it was it was nice to see.
Glenn Harper [00:18:15]:
Yeah. It's a cool stadium. No doubt. No doubt.
Naomi Granger [00:18:18]:
Yeah. I wanna do a
Julie Smith [00:18:19]:
whole podcast on a local's view of the Vegas Strip because it it's gotta be so different, but that's a different podcast for a different whole
Glenn Harper [00:18:27]:
thing. Did you, did you play sports growing up, or you were more a a a bookie? Just more like looking at books and reading books and doing that thing, or you out hustling?
Naomi Granger [00:18:38]:
No. I I was busy, just playing, tag, and I wasn't playing sports. I I have I wasn't really into reading books, but and I also wasn't into watching TV. I wonder what did I actually do? I did my schoolwork, though. I was a, you know, a very, I had a high GPA. So I made sure all my schoolwork was done.
Glenn Harper [00:19:03]:
Well, I think that sounded bad. I said a meaning, like, reading a lot of books, not like a bookie bookie as in, you know, like, Ganley. So I didn't mean to throw that out there. I don't know if you're doing that on the down low, but oopsie daisy. Little a play on words. Didn't mean that. So yeah. So and the reason we asked that question because sometimes a lot of entrepreneurs, they're either, like, they're either outcasts and they're used to being alone and they just gotta go grind it out, or they're part of a team or a sport and they're just used to that get up and grind.
Glenn Harper [00:19:31]:
And and I was just trying to figure out where you where you fit in that perspective. Because, again, to be an entrepreneur is is not easy. You have to have some some fort you know, just have to be tough to do that. Where do you think that came from? Like, do you like, I can do this?
Naomi Granger [00:19:46]:
I'm an only child, and I've always had that independent mindset. Like, that's the reason why I moved all the way to Florida by myself as a as a teenager. So it's more I think I'm more of that I'm I can get in my own little zone and by myself with no distractions and just grind it out.
Glenn Harper [00:20:06]:
Were you able to take, as you've been on this journey when you became, you know, doing your current gig, did you do you have you taken a lot of things that you learned at the big big 4, big 6, big 8, whatever the accounting firms were at the time? And at at at the other big companies you worked at, did you take a lot of those principles and concepts? Or did you, like, you look, that stuff is not for me. I gotta do it this way.
Naomi Granger [00:20:29]:
Yeah. The no. The main prints I mean, all it's all evolved since. But just understanding, being an external auditor, I feel like you get a very unique skill set, and I was there around SOX. And so I learned how to go into any organization, read the trial balance, break it down, talk to all the different people, and really understand that organization better than the people who probably work there. And I think that that's necessary as an accountant to be able to just take a trial balance and see what's wrong. Like, we our job was to find what was wrong as auditors. And so that's kind of, one of the main skill sets.
Naomi Granger [00:21:13]:
Like, I can you can show me something, and you can show me Excel spreadsheet, and I can point out an incorrect formula, like, pretty quickly. So I think it's just that eye for detail that I took, and just understanding, the audit principles, although they've kind of evolved and changed since I've I've left big 4, Just understanding how all that works. My job at so when I worked at Pfizer, I worked in their state and local tax department. And I was thinking, you know, when I graduate, this is where I'm going to come because, you know, I've already worked here before. I know the people, but the the director or the manager of the department that I worked at, he said, you know, we would love to have you back. You're excellent, you know, employee. However, if you really want to learn accounting, this is not the training grounds. Big 4 is the training grounds for accountants.
Naomi Granger [00:22:07]:
And so he did me a huge favor because I would have been siloed into just understanding pharmaceutical, I think that was probably the best choice you made. I mean, it's glorious and that.
Glenn Harper [00:22:22]:
I think that was probably the best choice you made. I mean, as glorious and exciting as state and local tax would be, I can't imagine. It'd be have any relevance in helping you in a different career. And that and that's the cool thing about having that accounting mindset. And then you have the MBA on top of it, which is a whole different you know, layer that really helped you a lot probably. It's just the accounting. You can look at things a little more globally from above and know how they flow, where other industries, you you only get to see a piece, where you got to see, like, the bird's eye view, and then understand the NBA, the management portion of it. I mean, that's a that's a huge plus.
Glenn Harper [00:22:58]:
I mean, this one over here, she's big in the NBA side.
Julie Smith [00:23:00]:
I know, but she's talking about how she loves numbers. So she
Glenn Harper [00:23:03]:
loves numbers. No. No. No. I I think the numbers are probably I think it's probably a a good piece of for both of that to work. So that was that's a cool thing you did. Do you feel like in your current, when you made the decision, you you know, I put that in my intro, you know, that had to be a big step to jump into an industry that might not be and that was a few years ago when you did this. Maybe it's not as mainstream or whatever.
Glenn Harper [00:23:27]:
Did did you were you worried about that at all? You said, the hell with it. I'm gonna go for it.
Naomi Granger [00:23:32]:
Yes. I've always been the type to go against the grain, and I was, I had relocated to Las Vegas, and we just passed our mayor or we just started opening dispensaries here. So I was seeing it everywhere, and then I saw on the news that California was starting their adult use program in January of 28th because I started in 2017. So January of 2018 is when California came on board, and it was supposed to, you know, have tens of thousands of licenses issued. And I just knew there was gonna be so many clients there. And even when I did work in big 4, I was the one that raised my hand to volunteer. Like, they also siloed you into an industry. So I was in the tech industry, but I wanted to help out with the manufacturing industry and the consumable goods industry and all these different industries because I started to get bored.
Naomi Granger [00:24:21]:
And so once I started learning about cannabis, I realized that every single day, I'm learning something new, and I I enjoy it. 7 years later, I'm still here. This is, like, one of the longest, rides I've been on.
Julie Smith [00:24:35]:
So did you have a mentor in the cannabis industry that kinda helped you into the entry of that? Or how did you how did you obviously, your mentor said pick an h you did that. But there's gotta be more to it than that. Right? There's a lot to learn.
Naomi Granger [00:24:51]:
Yeah. So I did. I partnered with another, cannabis entrepreneur, and we started working together. We started working on clients together, and then I started doing my own clients and then really learning it by just doing it. And it's just staying abreast, and staying in the mix with other accountants in the industry.
Glenn Harper [00:25:11]:
Isn't it the craziest thing that the IRS wants you to report all income for wherever derived, illegal or legal? You still have to account for it. You don't go to jail if you account for your gambling thing or your, you know, whatever, drugs or whatever. It's just bizarre. And then they come and they write a specific code section just for the cannabis industry, even though, federally, it's it's it's such a bizarre niche that people are worried. And one of the concerns probably and I, you know, as a as a CPA having a practice is, like, you know, they gotta kinda pay everything in cash. Right? They don't really have bank accounts. They just started with some credit unions. Right? They could move some money around.
Glenn Harper [00:25:51]:
But how does an accountant receive payment in cash for consulting with the cannabis industry? That creates a bit of a, like, oh, I don't that's uncomfortable. Right? So how do you assuage those fears for those other CPAs out there?
Naomi Granger [00:26:05]:
Yeah. So back in the olden days, like 2015, 2016, we were accepting cash. But ever since I've, joined, every single one of my clients has has been banked. So for most markets, there are local credit unions that are able to bank that do bank cannabis operators or the cannabis operator is can have a personal bank account that they're using for business purposes. There's a lot of gray areas when you're in this industry, but I haven't had to accept cash payment. But, yeah, there are some people out there that may be still accepting cash payments, but for the most part, they're all banked.
Glenn Harper [00:26:44]:
So it can be, quote, the common's gonna feel comfortable receiving payment then is, I guess, what I'm getting at. Because that was a very uncomfortable conversation. Like, how do I report all this cash I'm collecting? Right? So that would be interesting.
Naomi Granger [00:26:56]:
Yeah. The form 83100 and all that stuff.
Glenn Harper [00:26:58]:
Nobody likes that. You know, when you're doing this now and you've taken the the the rules of of the, 280 e, have you been able to expound and throw more things up in that cost of goods category or have been challenged on that? Are you pushing that envelope? Or is it pretty well established and it's either above or below that line and that's the way it is? You can't stretch anything in there? Or have you is that where you These
Julie Smith [00:27:23]:
are her proprietary secrets.
Glenn Harper [00:27:25]:
Well, I think that's what she's consulting accounts on is what I'm guessing. And, you don't have to tell them details, but, is that something that's part of your program to to get people to be able to get a better deduction than they otherwise would have received?
Naomi Granger [00:27:38]:
Yeah. So you, you you have to understand. So 280 e is the federal tax code, and then you have code section 471. You have dash 11. You have dash 3. You have a couple of 471, and you also have 471 c. And so it depends if you are a manufacturer or cultivator. If you're growing a plant, you can take a lot more of cost of goods sold.
Naomi Granger [00:28:01]:
The cost of to grow the plant is all considered cost of goods sold. The cost to manufacture a plant and turn it into a tincture or an oil or, you know, something, edible is all, cost of goods sold. But then when you get to the reseller level, the dispensary, the delivery operator, the cost of the the code says the cost is only whatever it costs to purchase the actual inventory and whatever freight, freight to get that inventory to you. And so we there is another code section called 471 c, which was implemented, during the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act by Donald Trump back in 2017, and it indicates that you can you can determine your own method of accounting and allocate more inventoriable cost. And so we are we have played a lot with using 471 c for our resellers to help them get more, cost deducted. So, you know, storage space for the inventory, budtender cost, you know, all those different direct cost in order to actually sell the plant inventory counts, things like that. And so we've we've had that challenged in court. We don't have any court, law yet.
Naomi Granger [00:29:23]:
A lot of it was settled outside of court, but we have had some success with using that.
Glenn Harper [00:29:30]:
It does seem pretty discriminatory that everybody else gets to write things off, but in that industry, you can't. That just doesn't seem sporting, does it? As a as a true accountant and a tax person, that just seems very not very discriminatory against a certain industry. But it is what it is. And and I think the key to this thing is that I think when you first started out, you were maybe working for those companies doing those things, but eventually, you step back. You're teaching other accounts how to do this. And that's your business model now. Is that true?
Naomi Granger [00:29:58]:
Yes.
Glenn Harper [00:29:59]:
So don't you miss getting on the trenches?
Julie Smith [00:30:01]:
But do you still help or do you still have any of those clients that you've kind of been able to delegate, I don't wanna say that monthly work or whatever that is out? Do you still hold on to any of that?
Naomi Granger [00:30:12]:
Yeah. So I still have my own, clients that I work with that kinda keep me familiar with what's going on, and then I train other accountants who are trying to to grow in this industry.
Julie Smith [00:30:24]:
So So you need 32 hours in a day as well, is what I'm hearing.
Naomi Granger [00:30:28]:
Yeah. Have you guys figured that one out?
Glenn Harper [00:30:31]:
No. Well, you know, it's a funny thing when, you see these entrepreneurs, and and it's not like us or anybody else when you you finally realize the thing that you're doing in that industry, you're like, well, I could keep doing that ad nauseam, but where's the fun in that? How about I go teach more people how to do it and share those secrets and get paid to do that? When did you make that decision that it's like, I'm not gonna just deal with the industry and do the work. I want to teach others how to be a consultant. When did that happen?
Naomi Granger [00:31:02]:
Yeah. So during those 2 years that I was unemployed and I I saw all these online trainings and all these online classes, I realized that there's a lot of, you know, opportunity to train in in in in x in different specialties. So I always knew that eventually I wanted to train and build, like, courses and online courses. And I kind of have a vision that we're going to transition away from university to specific, you know, specialized training down the road.
Julie Smith [00:31:34]:
So do you do you think your passion this is a loaded question. Is your passion truly accounting and numbers, or is your passion truly training? What really gets you up in the morning or lights your fire?
Naomi Granger [00:31:47]:
So I really enjoy the training and and the learning. So I really enjoy learning for myself and then breaking that down and teaching that to someone else. So I'm more of, for my firm, I'm more of the front facing person, the client acquisition type person, and may helping to make decisions, but not deep in the trenches and doing all the reconciliations and the, you know, chasing down invoices and things like that.
Glenn Harper [00:32:16]:
Don't you don't you miss that a little bit, balancing the checkbook? I mean, I'm just I'm just saying you gotta get your fix every now and again. You probably do your own books, I'm guessing. I'm kidding. So when these things goes, I mean, is it, from an, you know, just at some point, we asked for the plug, but maybe we can do that now.
Julie Smith [00:32:35]:
Well, wait. I I have lots we have Well,
Glenn Harper [00:32:37]:
I know, but I'm just saying this would be a good time to say, well, how does an accounting firm reach out to you, and what can they expect to do that instead of waiting till the end? We can do that now because we're on track. How does one go about and saying, you look, ma'am, I'm looking like a kid
Julie Smith [00:32:49]:
in this
Glenn Harper [00:32:50]:
space. Look
Julie Smith [00:32:50]:
at this accountant pivoting and changing. I just want everyone to acknowledge that in the industry.
Glenn Harper [00:32:55]:
It's it's I'm gonna have to go see my therapist after this. But, no, you know, like, how does that how does one go to get a hold of you, and what does that program look like? Is it like a 2 day class, a month coaching? How does that look?
Naomi Granger [00:33:08]:
Yeah. Yeah. So, the program the name of the program is called calculating cannabis, and, people can reach out to me directly, Naomi at, nacatpros.org. So it's the National Association of Cannabis Accounting and Tax Professionals, but I've kind of using the acronym nacatpros.org. That's our website, and you can contact me there. But the way the program works is, you know, once you join, it's an 8 week program, and it teaches you from start to finish how to set yourself up, what types of services understanding what types of services do these business owners need, what how to find these operators, how to how to market yourself to these operators, how to onboard these clients, how to set up your back end and your systems, and then all the nuances, understanding cash, understanding inventory, understanding seed to sale track and trace systems, like all the SOPs and things that you need in order to get up and running with that first client in the industry.
Glenn Harper [00:34:15]:
You know, what's funny is probably 90% of what you just said is probably what every client everybody needs to do, and the 10% is the specific to the industry. Does that sound about right?
Naomi Granger [00:34:26]:
Yeah. I've that was kind of the goal. I wanted the program to if you decide to pivot, I still want it to be able to have, useful information that you can use in your business.
Julie Smith [00:34:38]:
That's awesome. So I have a question. Besides finding 32 hours in a day, which we're all failing out currently, What is the biggest lesson that you could provide to our listeners when you decided to kinda take a step back from your day to day firm and pivot and do really what your passion is, what was your biggest lesson in being able to be in both of those?
Naomi Granger [00:35:03]:
So I guess you have to define exactly what you want your life to look like. What how does it look when you wake up? What types of who are you talking to? How much time are you spending? So you have to figure you have to get crystal clear on exactly what you want and then work backwards to figure out what type of role would fit that. And so I knew if I'm sitting on the phone all day with the bankers trying to get my deposit correct for my clients, that's not gonna give me that time freedom that I would like, to be able to get in front of operators and learn more about their business and and teaching, other accountants about this industry. So I think the biggest thing was understanding exactly how I what I wanted and what I what I wanted my life to look like and how I wanted to spend my time.
Julie Smith [00:35:55]:
And are you really good at delegating, I'm guessing?
Naomi Granger [00:35:59]:
I am getting there. I think I'm still learning. I think part of it is you have to learn how to be a leader. It's difficult to find, you know, really good employees that work with you and and are you know, understand the vision and can carry projects through. So I'm I'm still learning that. I work with consultants, and I work with some employees. But, yeah, that's I think that's gonna be an an ongoing struggle.
Glenn Harper [00:36:26]:
That's just the that's the accounting genie, and, yeah, that's gonna be a challenge. But you're working through it, which is important. And so Yeah. To do to what Julia is saying, so at some point, you had to make the decision to say, wait a minute. This is not how it's gonna go. This is what I gotta redefine it. Was that process did you get a consultant to help you with that? Did you just sit a dark room and just meditate? Did you go to the beach, top of the mountain? You write it all out. How did you define who you wanted to be? When did what what made that happen?
Naomi Granger [00:36:57]:
That was just self development, going all the different mentors I mentioned. So I had spiritual mentors. I had business mentors. I had mentors in all different areas to to kind of figure that out. And I did go on my own journeys. I did some self reflecting, journaling, meditating, and that's in that's also an ongoing process as well.
Glenn Harper [00:37:21]:
You know, it's weird, but most entrepreneurs, like, shy away from that kind of stuff. Like, I I know it all. I'm good. Right? And now we're hearing that not only did you embrace it, but you went all aspects to try to figure out the meaning of life, if you will, and and figure it out. And now here you are slaying it, having a good time, relaxing, helping a lot of people out. Sounds like a pretty good deal.
Naomi Granger [00:37:42]:
Yep. Because, I mean, it's it's true that if you a lot of people just come to me, and they're like, I just wanna understand the accountant. I wanna understand the accounting. And then they have a hard time landing a client, and I realize you don't really believe in yourself. Like, you you have to do that self reflecting, and you have to do the self personal development in order to be successful. Just knowing how to do the debits and credits is not gonna get you in front of somebody who's gonna say yes to your monthly reoccurring package that you wanna offer them. So, yeah, I I do a lot of that with my the accountants in my program as well, helping them say, hey. What exactly are people going to hire you for for? Why why you? What what are you offering? And a lot of times, they say, oh, I can reconcile a bank statement.
Naomi Granger [00:38:30]:
Well, yeah. So can the person down the street. Why you? So it's it takes you have to really understand the value that you bring and be able to properly communicate your value in order to be able to be successful in any business.
Glenn Harper [00:38:46]:
She's definitely drinking the Kool Aid. This is good stuff.
Julie Smith [00:38:48]:
This is a good reach. You're giving the shortcuts. So you're selling an online training class, and I love that. Right? Because the SOPs and everything. But what you've really done is taken what you've learned throughout your entire life with all of your mentors on all the mountains, the beaches, and everything you just named, and you're giving providing that shortcut to everybody to in order to find that faster, and I I applaud that.
Naomi Granger [00:39:16]:
Thank you.
Glenn Harper [00:39:17]:
There's I've got one more question. And, Julie, she's got another one, but you got, she's got 2. So was there any point in time, and I'm sure there was, but I love this question, where you're like, oh, man. When you look back, you know, if I did just chose option a versus option b back then, I would be on a whole different trajectory here. Do you have do you have a bunch of those? I mean, you don't get to regret them, but you're just like, oh, man. If I
Julie Smith [00:39:44]:
just would about Pfizer versus Deloitte?
Glenn Harper [00:39:46]:
Well, that was something different. That was a technical thing. That wasn't like, you know
Julie Smith [00:39:52]:
So give us another one.
Naomi Granger [00:39:53]:
No. I, you know, I I don't like to get myself into that cycle because there's so many decisions that you make in life, and it takes those decisions to get you to be who you are and where you are. And so I just kind of accept it. You know, I made that decision, and I will accept the lessons that I learned from that decision. Hindsight is 2020. Like, I really wish I can go back to my twenties and just redo it, redo the last 20 years. But
Glenn Harper [00:40:19]:
But I think that's the takeaway of that is everybody's gonna have those, oh, man. But at the end of the day, the only way you get experience is you have to go through the valley of darkness to figure it out, and that just is part of it. So just don't give up. Keep going.
Julie Smith [00:40:33]:
So I have 2 2 more questions, and then then you're off the hook with us. What is Naomi's superpower?
Naomi Granger [00:40:41]:
I think I can break down, like, a really complex, topic in, into bite sized pieces so that it's crystal clear and people understand it. I get that a lot that people are like, this seems so, and then I can break it down to them, and they're like, oh, k. I can do this. A lot of people, they get back they feel like they believe in themselves. They're able I get so excited when people land clients, and they're like,
Julie Smith [00:41:07]:
oh my gosh. I was able
Naomi Granger [00:41:08]:
to find my first client, and I just did what you said. And so, yeah, I I think that I feel like that's part of it.
Julie Smith [00:41:16]:
So last question and the toughest question.
Glenn Harper [00:41:19]:
You did did you study for this? I I hope.
Julie Smith [00:41:22]:
What is your end game?
Naomi Granger [00:41:25]:
Oh, so, of course, I'd want to retire and just be you know, have time freedom, location freedom, not have to do anything, have a have something that I've built. Like, I really enjoy the cannabis industry because it's weird. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to actually build and shape one of the largest industries in the country. And it has far reaching aspects beyond just the plant and, you know, rescheduling the plant, descheduling the plant, but there's a social equity component tied to it. There's we've had 50 years war on drugs, 100 of 1,000 or millions of people have been locked up for this plant, and now we're going back and we're doing prison reform. We're releasing these, these prisoners, and we're giving them business licenses. We're helping them understand the business and giving them a chance to actually, run a successful business. And so I do a lot of advocacy work, and I do a lot of things.
Naomi Granger [00:42:25]:
It's called social equity where I'm doing, education and training, not just to accountants, but to new business owners so that they can better understand financial literacy, business acumen, you know, things like that. And so I would love to be able to leave my legacy and my my little mark that, you know, Naomi and her organization has helped x number of people run successful businesses, understand finances and accounting and things like that. So, that, that just makes me I'm really passionate about this industry because
Julie Smith [00:42:58]:
I feel so much more comfortable. Coming through.
Glenn Harper [00:43:00]:
Told you. Told you.
Julie Smith [00:43:01]:
And so Yeah. I think as much as you wanna drink a Mai Tai on the beach, I think you'll have your laptop, and I think you'd be hard pressed to really be able to give it up just because I don't think that passion can go away.
Glenn Harper [00:43:14]:
You know too much.
Naomi Granger [00:43:15]:
Right. Yeah.
Glenn Harper [00:43:16]:
I mean and now, especially once you start helping all these other people, that's gonna be so rewarding. You don't do it for the money. You do it because you enjoy it. So you you can't stop. You know too much. So you're just one of those people, just like all entrepreneurs, we're never gonna stop.
Julie Smith [00:43:29]:
It really was a trick question because no matter how you answered it, the the answer was you're probably not gonna stop. There is no end game. You may pivot 14,000 times, but there's really no end game because, I mean, I I could feel your passion coming through, and that would be really hard to to tether even on the beach with mai tais.
Naomi Granger [00:43:47]:
Right. And it's it's the thing is it's like it you need to live. You need income to live and survive and things, and you need money to implement different programs if you're going to be traveling and teaching people and stuff. So I really wanna be in a position where I'm comfortable enough to just, okay, today, I'm gonna go to California and go to this community and just help all you know, help everybody with what's going on in their business.
Glenn Harper [00:44:13]:
Yeah. You're you could live on 1500 a month, but we're way beyond that now. So we we've got we've got an entourage. It's expensive, so I get it. Well Yeah. You've been a joy to have on our show. We've learned a lot about things. And, again, as the entrepreneur journey continues for all our listeners, I hope there's a lot of nuggets you can take from this, And, Naomi, we appreciate you being on the show.
Glenn Harper [00:44:35]:
I'm Glenn Harper.
Julie Smith.