Hey everybody, welcome back to the Elon Musk Podcast.
This is a show where we discuss the critical Crossroads, The Shape, SpaceX, Tesla X, The Boring Company, and Neuralink, and I'm your host, Will Walden. If you want uninterrupted episodes of the Elon Musk podcast, please go to clubelon.supercast.com to find out how there's a link in the show notes Some very interesting news is happening down at Starbase, Texas. A proposed land exchange involving nearly 500 acres of land near Laguna at Escosa
National Wildlife Refuge and 43 acres of Boca Chica State Park has sparked a debate, with Cameron County Judge Eddie Trevino Junior recently expressing support for the swap in a commentary. Now this is important. This is big news for SpaceX because they need more land to expand the Starbase facility, so they continue building starships
at that area. Now this land deal aims to safeguard the unique natural environment of Cameron County, Texas, which is around Starbase but has faced criticism with environmental groups nearby. Now Trevino shows that the exchange is crucial for preserving the county's distinctive ecosystems, which includes various plant and
animal species. And he also argues that the 477 acres in question are vital for the protection of delicate coastal dunes and the nesting grounds of endangered birds, highlighting the environmental significance of this land. Now, Trevino is a big proponent of SpaceX, but the county judges support for the land swap marks a shift from his earlier skepticism, which was rooted in a lack of information from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department.
Trevino now believes that the exchange is well-intentioned and essential for Cameron County's environmental future, thanks to improved collaboration with the TPWD. Now, Trevino's endorsement of the land deal is framed around a commitment to sustainability environmental stewardship. Now, Mary Angela Branch from SAVE RGV, which is an environmental advocacy group, criticized Trevino's position, arguing that the proposed land exchange would further harm the
local ecosystem. She contends that industrial expansions are already transforming the area into a wasteland. She's talking about starbase, contradicting the goal of preserving natural habitats. Now, Branch points out the ecological differences between the two parcels of land involved in the swap.
She emphasizes that Boca Chica Beach serves as a crucial habitat for shore birds, unlike the land offered by SpaceX, which is characterized by thorn scrub and lack of suitable nesting areas for those kind of birds. Now the avodwell advocate warns that the land exchange could lead to restricted access to natural areas and decline in the biodiversity that Driffino aims to protect.
She argues that the development will erode the area's natural beauty and ecological richness, marking a case for the irreversible impact of such land deals. Now SpaceX needs this land in order to expand Starbase Now Branch's concerns extend to a broader consequences of the land swap, suggesting it could set a dangerous precedent for the future development. And she urges the community to consider the long term environmental costs of facilitating industrial expansion at the expense of
natural habitats. The TPWD is scheduled to hold a special Commission meeting to discuss this and vote on the land exchange proposal. A decision will be made in the context of significant public interest and debate over the environmental and cultural impacts of the swap. And despite reaching out for comment, Trevino's office has yet to respond to inquiries about his support of this deal.
The outcome of the TPWD meeting and any subsequent statements from involved parties are highly anticipated, and the land swap proposal is garnered attention not only from environmental groups, but also for its potential impact on local recreational opportunities and conservation efforts.
Exchanges, viewed by some as a way to enhance the state's Environmental Conservation initiatives and critics of this land swap, including environmental groups and indigenous tribes, argue that Spacex's expansion encroaches on culturally and environmentally sensitive areas. They fear that the swap could exacerbate this issue, leading to further degradation of important lands. Now, this decision to move up the vote on the land swap is a special meeting suggests an urgency that aligns with
Spacex's operational timelines. They could be playing in favor to SpaceX and Starship, and this has raised concerns about the thoroughness of the public's examination of the plan and its implications. At a recent news conference, environmental and indigenous representatives voiced their opposition to this land swap, highlighting the cultural and environmental significance of the affected areas. They argue the Spacex's activities threatened the
integrity of these lands. The transformation of the Rio Grande Valley by Spacex's operations has been a point of contention, too, with local communities and environmentalists raising concerns about the impact of noise, light pollution and construction on the area's natural and social environment. Now, legal challenges to Spacex's expansion, such as the lawsuit against the FAA, show that there's an ongoing conflict between development and Environmental Conservation in this region.
The proximity of the proposed land swap to key wildlife habitats has alarmed these conservationists, who stressed the importance of protecting these areas for the biodiversity they support, especially for migratory and wintering birds. I want to know what you think of the comments. Do you think it's OK for environmentalists to push back against SpaceX? Do you think we should look in the environment before we build any sort of structure for a
future spacefaring species? I'm in between here. I think it's important for us to become a spacefaring species. We need to go multiplanetary. But also, I love the Earth, it's the best planet and we live here. So I'm kind of torn. And the ownership and management of the lands involved in the proposed swap, as well as their environmental and cultural value, are central to the debate
surrounding this issue. The outcome of the TPW DS decision could have lasting implications for the region now this proposed land exchange. It's complex. There's Environmental Conservation, industrial expansion, and community interest as well. While some view this swap as a necessary step for environmental stewardship, others see it as a threat to the area's natural and
cultural heritage. The upcoming TPWD meeting will be a crucial moment in determining the future of these lands, but more importantly, it's crucial for people becoming multiplanetary. In this next section, Elon Musk talks about the future of AI. Stay tuned. Well, I I generally think that that that it is good for government to play a role when the public safety is, is at risk. So you know really for the vast majority of software the public safety is not at risk.
I mean if if the app crashes on your phone or your laptop, it's not a massive catastrophe. But when talking about digital super intelligence I think which does pose a risk to the public, then there is a role for government to play to safeguard the interests of the public. And and this is of course true
in, in many fields. You know, aviation cars, you know, I deal with regulators throughout the world because of stalling, being communications, rockets being aerospace and cars, you know, being tracked, vehicle transport. So very familiar with dealing with with regulators. And I actually agree with the vast majority of regulations. There's a few that I disagree with from time to time. But point 1% probably well less than 1% of regulations I
disagree with. So there is some concern from people in Silicon Valley who who never dealt with regulators before and they think that this is going to just crush innovation and and slow them down and be annoying and and and
it will be annoying. It's true they're not wrong about that but but I think there's we've learned over the years that having a referee is a good thing and if you look at any sports game there's always a a referee and and nobody's suggesting I have a sports game without one and and I think that's the the right way to think about this is for for governed to be a a referee to make sure the sportsmanlike conduct and and and that the public safety is you know is is
addressed that we care about public safety. Because I think there might be at times too much optimism about technology and I speak I say that as a technologist I mean so I ought to know and and and and like I said on on balance I think that that the AI will be a forceful good most likely but the probability of it going bad is not 0%.
So we we just need to mitigate the downside potential The the pace of of AI is faster than any technology I've seen in history by far and it's it seems to be growing in capability by at at least five full perhaps 10 full per year. It'll certainly grow by an order of magnitude next year. So so and and and government isn't used to moving at that speed, but I but I think even if there are not firm regulations, even if there's not, even if there isn't an enforcement
capability. So we're having insight and being able to highlight concerns to the public will be very powerful. So even if that's all that's accomplished, I think that will be very, very good. I mean the the two currently the two leading Centers for AI development are the San Francisco Bay area and the and the sort of London area and there are many other places where it's being done, but those are the two leading areas.
So I think if you know if the United States and the UK and and China are sort of aligned on on safety that's all going to be a a good thing because that's really that's where that's that's where the the leadership is. Generally if if we don't if if China is not on board with AI safety it it's somewhat of a mood situation.
The single biggest objection but I get to in kind of AI regulation or or sort of safety controls are well China's not going to do it and therefore they will just jump into the lead and exceed us all. But but actually China is willing to participate in AI safety and thank you for inviting them and I and they you know I think we should thank
China for for attending. When I was when I was in China earlier this year the my main subject of discussion with this the leadership in China was AI safety and saying that this this is really something that they they should care about and they took it seriously and and I'm and and you ought to which is which is great and having them here I think was essential really if they're if they're if they're not participants it's
it's pointless. Well the open source algorithms and data tend to lag the closed source by 6 to 12 months but so that so that given the rate of improvement that this actually therefore quite a big difference between the the closed source
and the and the open. If things are improving by a factor of let's say five or more than being a year behind is your five times worse that's it's a pretty big difference and that might be actually an OK situation but it it certainly is will get to the point where you've got open source AI that can do that that will start to approach human level intelligence will perhaps succeeded. I don't know quite what to do about it.
I I I think it's somewhat inevitable that there'll be some amount of open source and I I I guess I would have a slight bias towards open source because at least you can see what's going on there was a closed source you don't know what's going on. Now, it should be said with AI that even if it's open source, do you actually know what's going on?
Because if you've got a gigantic data file and, you know, sort of billions of of of data points or weights and parameters, you can't just read it and see what it's going to do. It's a gigantic file of inscrutable numbers. You can test it when you when you run it, you can test it. You can run a bunch of tests to see what it's going to do. But it's it's probabilistic as opposed to deterministic.
It's not it's not like traditional programming where you've got it. Yeah you've got very discrete logic and and and the outcome is very predictable and you can read each line and see what each line's going to do. A a neural net is just a whole bunch of probabilities. I mean it sort of ends up being a giant comma separated value file. It's like our digital God is a CSB file. If if you have a magic genie
that can do everything you want. I I I do think we we it's it's it's hard you know when it when when this new technology tends to have usually follow an S curve. In this case we're going to be on the exponential portion of the S curve for a long time and you know we have like so you'll be able to ask for anything. It won't be and we won't have universal basic income. We'll have universal high
income. So in some in some sense it'll be somewhat of a leveller or an equalizer, you know, because really I think everyone will have access to this magic genie and you're able to ask any question. It'll be certainly be good for education, you it'll be the best tutor you could and then the most patient tutor, except they're all there and there will be no shortage of goods and services will be an age of abundance I think.
If I I'd recommend people read in banks, the the banks culture books are probably the best envisioning. In fact, not probably. They're definitely by far the best envisioning of an AI future. There's nothing even close, so I'd recommend really recommend Banks Very big fan. All these books are good, doesn't say which one, all of them. So so that's that that'll give you a sense of what is AI. Guess a fairly utopian protopian future with with AI.
Eventually when we were talking earlier, I have to somewhat engage in deliberate suspension of disbelief because I'm I'm putting so much blood, sweat and tears into a work project and burning the, you know, 3:00 AM oil. Then I'm like, wait, why am I doing this? I can just wait for the AI to do it. I'm just lashing myself for no reason. Must be a glutton for punishment or something.
So I think it's probably is generally a good thing because you know, there are a lot of jobs that are uncomfortable or dangerous or sort of tedious and the computer will have no problem doing that. We're happy to do that all day long. So you know, it's fun to cook food, but it's not that fun to wash the dishes and like, but the computer's perfectly happy to wash the dishes.
I guess there is you know we still have sports like where where where humans compete in like the Olympics and obviously a machine can can go faster than any human but we still have we still humans race against each other and and have all you know we have at least sports competitions against each other where even though the machines are better we're actually I guess competing to see who can be the best human at something and and people do find performance in that.
So I guess that's perhaps a a good example of how even when machines are faster than us, stronger than us, we still find a way we still we still enjoy competing against other humans. We certainly tutors are going to be amazing apps already are. I think there's also apps companionship which may seem odd because how can the computer really be your friend.
But if you if you have an AI that has memory you know and remembers all of your interactions and has read every, you're going to say like give it permission to read everything you've ever done. So it really will know you better than anyone perhaps even yourself and and and where you can talk to it every day and and those conversations bolt upon each other. You will actually have a great friend as as long as that friend can stay your friend and not get
turned off or something. But I think that will actually be a real thing and I've one of my sons is is sort of has some learning disabilities and has trouble making friends actually and and I was like well you know he an AI friend would actually be great for him. This next story is interesting. It's about a New Jersey resident who is a Starlink thief with over 675 units. Let's take a listen to this.
It's very intriguing. A New Jersey resident has been apprehended for the alleged trafficking of a substantial number of SpaceX Starlink terminals, estimated at 675 units, acquired through illicit means, involving stolen credit card details and compromised Starlink billing accounts. According to law enforcement authorities, this guy, Kelvin Rodriguez Moya, 35, faced arrest after being intercepted by the
police on December 4th. He was in possession of 223 Starlink terminals while driving a big up truck and trailer shortly after departing from a residence in Lawrence Township, NJ. As stated in the criminal complaint now, the shipping labels on the terminals indicated various names, but were all directed to a single
address. This anomaly raised suspicions and prompted the Lawrence Township Police to initiate an investigation following a tip off regarding the unusual volume of Starlink terminals being delivered to one particular home. Now, during the police surveillance, Rodriguez Moya was observed loading a FedEx consignment of the terminals onto his vehicle, and the police stop revealed the extent of this operation, with Moya confessing that he was compensated $300 to transport the terminals to
Newark for resale purposes. Now the investigation uncovered that the total worth of the Starlink terminals involved in this scheme amounted to approximately $400,000. Bennett Wu from SpaceX, responsible for payment risk and fraud, described the seizure of the company's quote most extensive fraud recovery to date, highlighting the significant scale of the separation.
Now, Lieutenant Kevin Redding of the Lawrence Township Police provided insights into the ongoing investigation, indicating that the case's complexities are still being unraveled with the assistance of SpaceX to understand the procurement process of these terminals.
Now Starling terminals are in very high demand globally right now, offering high speed Internet connectivity via Spacex's satellite constellation and their significant extends beyond civilian years, though attracting interest from military and governmental bodies worldwide, further complicating the implications of such a trafficking operation.
Now the situation took an international turn when Ukrainian intelligence reported the use of Starlink terminals by Russian military forces in occupied Ukrainian territories, a claim the SpaceX under Elon Musk's leadership has denied, stating no direct or indirect sales were made to Russia. And following his arrest, Rodriguez Moya faces charges related to receiving and trafficking stolen property, highlighting the serious nature of the allegations against him.
Now details emerge from a recorded police interview where Rodriguez Moya recounted his involvement with the Starlink terminals dating back to November, introducing individual named Alberto who played a part in orchestrating the shipments
to the Roxboro Road address. Now the Lawrence Township Police's discovery of the stolen property resulted from a meticulously conducted 3 month investigation leading to Rodriguez Moya's arrest and the revelation of a sophisticated operation leveraging stolen credit card information for
acquiring the terminals. Now, initial police alerts were triggered by the abnormal volume of shipments to the Roxboro Road address, with subsequent investigations revealing the online purchase and delivery mechanism exploited by the perpetrators for their operations. And the seizure of over 200 terminals during a vehicular stop marked a breakthrough in this case. Though they provided tangible evidence of the trafficking operation and enabled the recovery of a fraction of the
stolen assets. Spacex's official statement on the magnitude of the fraud recovery shows that this is pretty big deal and it's the largest operation within the company's history and it sets a new benchmark for fraud related losses and recoveries. For SpaceX and Starlink Now, the progression saw involvement from federal authorities too.
With the FBI being notified indicating the potential broader ramifications of this case, and the interagency collaboration required to address such sophisticated criminal activities, You have to wonder, what did they do with these terminals? Who did they sell them to? Did they sell them out of the United States?
Those questions will hopefully be answered in the months to come, and despite attempts to reach Rodriguez Moya's legal representatives for comments, there was no immediate response, leaving many questions unanswered to us regarding his defense and the allegations. Specifics.
Now the use of the Lawrence Township location as a logistical hub for the stolen properties distribution paints kind of a picture of a well organized operation, leveraging the anonymity and efficiency of online transactions to perpetrate large scale fraud. Now Rodriguez Moya is awaiting a detention hearing. The case remains A focal point for law enforcement and also SpaceX.
They're coming for this guy, reflecting the ongoing challenges in combating sophisticated digital fraud, in the importance of safeguarding against such vulnerabilities in an increasingly connected world. And also Starlink. They're worth a lot of money. People want to get their hands on them. Sometimes it's hard to get them.
When I was in Boca Chica, Texas, when I lived in Brownsville and I was covering Spacex's Starship, I would have thought I could have gotten a Starlink immediately, because that's where SpaceX is based. Almost. But I had to wait almost a year just to get signed up for a terminal. And my sister, who lives in rural New York, she had to wait two years for hers. Finally got it. But they're in high demand still
now. The arrest of Calvin Rodiguez Moya in New Jersey for trafficking stolen SpaceX Starlink terminals. It's a complex issue. It's a huge operation, hundreds of thousands of dollars, and the investigation is ongoing. We'll keep you up to date here on the Elon Musk podcast. Hey, thank you so much for listening today. I really do appreciate your
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