We Over Me: Our Choice

for preorder today. That's right, Run don't walk to www dot p r h dot com slash we over Me to pre order your book today. Every decision is not agreed upon, but that doesn't mean that we can't move forward. That is a fact. And when writing this book, We over Me, I had to make a tough decision to include a particular moment in our lives, and I decided to go for it. Dead ass. Hey, I'm Cadine and

we're the Ellises. You may know us from posting funny videos without boys and reading each other publicly as a form of therapy. Wait, I'll make you need therapy most days. Wow. And one more important thing to mention, we're married. We are. We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of life's most taboo topics, things most folks don't want to talk about. Through the lens of a millennium married couple. Dead adds is the term that we say every day.

So when we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Were about to think Philow talk to a whole new level. Dead ads starts right now, as you guys know. Now, we've gon a book call We over Me the counterintuitive approach to getting everything you want out of your relationship. And I remember when Cadina and I were sitting down because the book idea was presented to us, shout out

to Carlos from CIA. He reached out through his fiance at the time now wife Rainy, who went to college with Codina and I. We shout and said, hey, Carlos, wons talk to you guys about a possible project. Let's see if you're interested. So Carlos came to us and said, I have a couple of publishers who are interested in you guys writing a book about your relationship. What do you guys think? And I was like nah at first,

and they were like, what you mean? Nah, and I was just like, we have a podcast, we utilize our social media, you know, we have a travel show that's out now with the Boys. I feel like we've shared a lot, Like I don't. I really think there's anything that we haven't shared with everyone on the podcast and Codina was like, that's not true. I was like, what you mean we have shared everything and she was like, no, we haven't. And when I started to look in her eyes,

I could tell what she wanted to share. And at first I was like, there's no way she wants to share this because this is something that she and I went through at a particular time in our life and we're not going to disclose that. Will let you guys read the book to see what we're talking about. But I looked at k and I said, is it what I think it is? And CONDEI looked at me and said, yeah,

I want to talk about the abortion. So thinking about this entire book journey and what it looked like for us, it really called for us to pull on some vivid, some not so vivid, some painfully vivid moments in our life. And what I've realized over the course of our life is that together at least in the past twenty years. Memories are gonna be memories, right. There are moments that happen in our life, so whether they're good or bad, it's the memories we have, right that brings me to memories.

Don't live like people, dude, they always member you when are things are good are bad? It's just the memories that yeah, say, hey boy, stop just remember when I write us. Oh God, I was prepared to go all the way into it. But memories, listen, memories good or bad, they are what they are. All right. Let's take a quick break. We're gonna get into the media, the show where we talk about we over me and some of the decisions that we had to make in this book

writing process. Was that little bomb drop for everybody? Um, I think it was mainly because abortion has become a hot button topic. Absolutely because of the laws that are changing to reverse a woman's a woman's right to choose whether or not she wants to go through with a

full term pregnancy. Absolutely. Um, it's wild to me. It's wild to me, um that this is even a conversation that we're having now, Um, with real versus way having been overturned in some states, um men, particularly feeling like they have the right to even dictate what a woman does with the body. So this is not even going to be like a pro choice pro life conversation, because that's not something that we feel like we need to

discuss openly with people, because that's a personal decision. And for full disclosure, I think everyone has the right to be pro choice or pro life right for sure. I honestly feel like, yes, we as people are allowed to are should be allowed to not agree without spewing hate

at each other or not being given a title right. However, I do feel like over arching with the decision of whether you want to be pro choice or pro life as a woman, and speaking for I feel like a lot of women, we should just ultimately be given the

choice to do with our bodies what we want. I'm gonna agreement with that, and I would say that growing up, I've always been like a pro life person, but as we've experienced for childbirths, how could you be pro life without considering the life of the mom, you know what I'm saying. So my perspective has definitely changed, and I feel like having the choice is definitely the main, like the main point that should be driven home because we're at the point now where we're giving people the choice

to do whatever they want. You can choose your gender, you can choose your sex, you can choose everything. But now you're telling me that a woman doesn't have the right to choose, even if they're raped, or even if it could cause a woman her life for or cause a woman to lose her life, she doesn't have a choice to decide. I feel like that's unfair, a little bit extreme, right, So yeah, um, Deval and I, in the book, we detail what transpired at that particular point

in our life. Um, and in this episode, we didn't really want to dive too much into the details of it, because that's the whole point of the book, right, So you can look at it and you can read it and you can see, you know, a detailed explanation of what he and I were feeling. And the great thing about the book and the way it was written is that it really gives particular points in our lives and

it gives both of our perspectives. Right. So, Deval and I, when we were talking about this topic, he said something that really just kind of it just reiterated to me in that moment how much of a team and a unit we are, And you said, you know, when we discuss our abortion, and he never put it on just me and said that time you had an abortion. It was when we made the decision to have our abortion.

Because a lot of times I feel like you hear these stories about women who sit with someone, you know, procreate with someone, and then in turn feel very alone because they feel like now the onus is just on them to make a decision either way or the woman feels like I'm going to make this decision solely without necessarily considering or consulting how the father of this child may feel. It is going to say that as well, right,

So it's it's very very two sided. So I appreciate that to this day, and even in that moment um you were very adamant about speaking about us as a unit because this is a decision that we ultimately made together. Yes, And that's and that's the whole point of we over me, is that there is no decision that's just you. There's no singular decision anymore. Um. I think that's important too, because speaking on behalf of some men, you can't make

that decision on your own. If it's something we've done together, so you can't say this is something we've done together, but then the decision is ultimately mine. But I do understand though, that it is your body. So we sat down and we had a very very tough conversation. And when you get into the book and you hear how she felt and you hear how how I felt, you can actually understand both arguments. But at this point it's

not about arguments, and it's not about being right. It's about what's doing what's best for all three of us in that moment um. I also feel like it was necessary, so people may ask me why I wanted to discuss this, and it's probably going to be like a bombshelf for our families too, because no one really in our families knew that this transpired, and in part because of the point that we were in our life. Um, we were younger, and it was a part of the ridicule that we

felt like we might have gotten the shame, the backlash. Um. I think it was one of those things where we also ultimately knew that we weren't conducting ourselves in the most careful manner. Yeah, we weren't responsible, So it's almost as if we were going to be getting the fingers pointed at you like you should have done that. I

told you so. And it's easy for everything to be or for everyone to be reactive in moments like that where I felt like if we discussed this now, it might prompt people to be more proactive about how they are proceeding with their sexual life. I'm in agreement with you, and that's why when it came time to have this discussion and you wanted to share, it also wasn't a thing where COIN was like, well, I'm sharing because it's

my body. It was always we in us. She asked me how I felt, and I'm going to tell you what made me feel comfortable. I can't say who, can't say names because also I'm trying to respect people's privacy. But I did speak to some members of my family. I'm not going to say whether it was men or women. And I said, I'm just gonna let you guys know that Kadeina and I are choosing to speak on this

topic because this is what we experienced. And I had a resounding, a resounding amount of family members that said we've been there as well. Mm hmm. And I was like, what, wait, like, what like you? Because I grew up in a Southern Baptist family, and you know you hear like you don't talk about sex in the Southern Baptist families, let alone

an abortion. And I remember the ridicule my brother and his girlfriend at the time, who was seventeen, received from having a child, And I felt like, just because of the way my family was and the way we grew up, that this couldn't have possibly have ever happened to anybody

else in my family. So to speak to the people I spoke to a very as ages, different generations, and hearing them say, sweetheart, we went through the same thing, it was like yeah, But then it was also, why didn't you guys speak to us about sex before we got to this situation so we knew how to move responsibly. So that made me feel like we now have a

responsibility to share our story. Hopefully it will save another young couple from going through what we went through in that moment, feeling the shame and the ridicule even leading up to having the conversation about whether or not we

were going to go through it or not. Absolutely, and I think I share the same sentiment in having a very similar family structure or makeup where you know, my mom's side particularly raised seven day event as my uncle's a pastor, like my aunt is still very very active in the church with her family, and there was just

no way a that sex was really discussed in entirety. Um, there's a lot of things that I just left to kind of figure out on my own or kind of lean on like an older cousin or friends who figure out.

And as we became parents too, we realized the value and making sure that we now will have those candid conversations with our children, of course in an age appropriate way and a timely manner, like the conversations are naturally going to progress into things that are a little bit more detailed, and you know how how twos and the what to watch out for is are going to be

that much more detailed as our boys get older. Um, but it's also making sure, particularly as we raise four boys, that they understand the female anatomy and how the woman's body works and how their body works. And there's so many different things that need to be unpacked, and I didn't particularly feel comfortable having those conversations early on, so recently, UM even had a conversation with my mom and she and I have just had now in my I want

to say older age. She and I have developed a really, really just a way better line of communication because I think she understands now how out I in learning from you how to be transparent communicate. UM. It's helped our relationship so much more. And I think she in turn feels comfortable speaking about a lot of things that she wouldn't have before. UM. And I can still see sometimes discomfort in the way she approaches things, you know, but it's better and she's making an effort and I love

that about where we are in our relationship. UM. And I was speaking to her about, you know, a gripe that I had with a family member and whatnot, and I was just like, you know, why, why aren't conversations just had, Like what is the what is the what is the complexity around just mustering up the goal of the strength to have the conversation that's uncomfortable and a lot of times it's what is it? What do you think? Judgment? Shame and judgment absolutely which is killing me in this

day and age, especially with social media. Right we told about this before a young lady sent me email. Why would you share this conversation with you and your son? Right? What is the purpose of life? Is the purpose of life to obtain as much materialistic things so you can flaunt in front of everybody else. It's not the perfect of life. No, that's not the perfect or to learn as many things, as many ideas and then just hold it to yourself. But you have the wealth of knowledge

quote unquote, and nobody else does. Right, is it just the right not just material things, but to obtain as much knowledge as possible to keep it to yourself, to prove that you're smarter than everyone else. No, that's not the purpose of life. The purpose of life is to view the world in its entirety from as many different perspectives as possible, so that you can obtain knowledge and then share it so that the next generation can be better than you like. To me, that's the whole purpose

of life. So when you go through something in your life, it's not to keep it secret so that no one can judge you. It's to share it so that the hope is you help someone. And when you when you say you're gonna help someone, you can't then dictate how you're going to help them. For example, we're sharing about our abortion. I'm not going to this saying I'm sharing

this story hoping that no one never gets an abortion. Ever, well, I'm not saying that I share this hoping that they banned abortions because no, or I'm not sharing it hoping that people will agree with our decision or not, or then me or you potentially feeling like we're going to be shamed a ridicule for sharing our story, or you know, people saying, you know what, kid, I don't agree with the fact that you had this abortion, so now therefore I'm going to unfollow you because I don't believe in

that and I'm pro pro life, like that's something that I've considered too. But then also in us realizing that we're in a space where we choose to share, and then y'all can take it or leave it. You know, people are going to support regardless, and if that's a choice that somebody decides to make because I'm being transparent, then that's on them. And and to be honest, that's the purpose of sharing, the purpose of sharing so someone

can listen to the story and then make an objective decision. Hopefully, hopefully an objective decision about how they want to live their life moving forward. That doesn't mean and the reason why I say objective decision is because I'm trying to be objective on the fact that I know everyone is not going to agree with our decision one to have one and then to share it. So we've already come to terms with that, and I think people need to

understand what's the purpose. Part of the reason why I chose to share this because I remember how I felt as a young man going through that and not feeling like I had anyone to talk to, because I felt like I was the only one ever in life that went through this, even though I knew it and I wasn't. I felt like I was and I felt alone. And I did also feel like, what if I was doing

something that was going to ultimately harm my girlfriend? If I had more information from people would want through it, I would know the right way to do things, see what I'm saying, And if I had more information, I could have took the right precautions to not even be in this predicament, which to me is why people should share their stories so that the next generation doesn't even have to have these conversations because we've taken the necessary

precautions to not be here. Yep. Absolutely So going back to this conversation that I had recently with my mom, I was asking about, like why is it? And you know, like you said, probably shame, m probably fear of judgment. Um. There's also apparently in prior generations to my generation, just

this idea of within my family. At least I can't speak for everyone's family, but my mom pretty much said like they're from an era where you just forget about things, like you just you just hope things will blow over. Let bygones be bygones, just you know, sweep it under

the rug and move on. And there's so much detriment in that that mentality because nothing is ever resolved like that root of the problem is never discussed, it's never unhashed, and it's a complete and total disregard for how someone feels. So my response to that is like, Okay, so no one's going to take into account how I may feel

about it. You want to hear how I feel because you just want to know how I may feel about something, but you're not even going to then say, validate my feelings or say, you know, you may have mistaken how things transpired, and I just just hate that that's the rhetoric around um some of my family dynamic, and that in turn forced me to feel like I was very alone in this situation aside from having you, because there was just no way that I was going to be

able to speak to anyone about this. So you didn't speak to anyone in your family, no women, no women in my family about it other than an older cousin who at that point was only maybe what to three years older than me. So it's not even like I was getting guidance from someone who necessarily had I think

she had gone through something similar. She might have had one in her life too, But it's also too like, you know, she's not in a adult per se, you know, she's kind of like my peer, um almost like a little older sister. But nobody who really could have pointed me in the right direction, Like I could have caused harm to myself not going to the right place, not seeking out the right resources, not howing to heal after it um mentally and emotionally, knowing how to deal with

something like that. Like that's a lot of things that she wasn't even privy to or was able to help me through. UM. Years later, I had divulged this to one family member who I felt like I could just trust and just you know, after the fact, you're just like yo, like I went through this, and she she said to me, like, I really wish in that moment

you would have felt comfortable coming to me. And her relationship with me got stronger after the fact because as she saw I was getting older and she kind of realized I didn't have those outlets to be very transparent with. I felt more comfortable over the years because she developed a relationship with me where I felt comfortable enough to do that. And I'm just hoping that you and I

can do that for generations to come. Like I feel like my sister or your sister, our nieces, you know, god children can come to us and say, man, you know Aunt Kaine and Uncle Deval will never judge us for the decisions that we make, or hopefully they can feel comfortable having the conversations before they even make these decisions. And those are just the things that we were lacking in those moments. UM. So, yeah, it was one of

those things where we just felt very alone. But the little support that we did have from someone in your corner, my dad knew. Yeah, your dad didn't know. You're right, your dad didn't know. I forgot about that, yeah, because I needed the finances to let it happen. But also I've always had a relationship with my father where he never judged me, even though you never had the conversations about sex. No, like like, here's here's the truth about

my parents. My parents were always very open with having conversations. A lot of us not having conversations wasn't part because I didn't know how to start having those conversations. I was a child, and you expect your parents to bring some of these conversations to you because you're like, I'm around that age. They should be talking to me. But my parents never did. And what happened was my brother ended up having a baby at seventeen and I was

actively having sex at fifty. So it was just like you out there doing stuff, You're doing grown adults stuff, and no one's there talking to you about it. But when my back was against the wall, I could always go to my pops, and my pops never judged me. The first thing he always asked was How's I was, kay, like, how is? How is? She? Like? What do you need? He was always there to help me through the process.

And I'm looking to build that type of relationship with my children because even though we felt alone, I never really felt alone because I could run to my pops and I knew that my pops. My pops is not a judgmental person. Now, my pops is a deacon in the church, and he grew up and he at the time I was a young adult. So he also didn't force his beliefs and thoughts and ideas on me. That's very atypical of someone who was growing up in the church, right.

But he didn't say, well, you know, and scold me, and he just said, okay, um, how is Condein? As I told how how told him how he was, he asked me, you know what the thought process was? I told him about how I felt, and I also told him that you and I didn't agree, and he was like, do you want me to exclose disclose who wanted to and who didn't want to? You want me to wait for the book? Okay, well, okay, well we'll let you

guys wait for the for the book. Um, but Kadina and I didn't agree on what we were going to do, and we couldn't come to an agreement at all, so ultimately the decision was made. But the thing that made me feel good was that both of us were constantly thinking about the other person at all times. It's the wildest thing to me, Like, like, I remember thinking pros and cons, pros and cons, but I just want my

baby to be okay. And then it was almost a point where well, I remember saying this man, fucking whatever's

gonna make my baby okay, I'm doing it. Like all my beliefs that went out the window, all my thoughts, all my ideas, because you have all these ideas as a man and as a person about how you're going to handle this situation until you get into this situation with someone you care about and then they start talking to you about what they believe and then you like, al right, well, whatever's gonna make you okay and make you happy and and make and I just want you

to be okay. And that's what it came down to to me, was like Cadeen has to be okay. Because I also felt indebted to your parents, like we I was responsible for you. Even though we were young at the time, I was like this, I this is my responsibility. And also I sat, I laid down with this woman and we made adult decisions to do adult things. So I have to now act as an adult and I have to take care of this woman. So whatever's gonna

make her okay, I'm gonna rock with it. You know what I realized by you've been just saying this early on. And this goes back to the miscommunication episode that we have that you guys, I don't know if you will have heard this yet by the time this ears, but even in that miscommunication episode twenty years later, right having a full blown argument, ultimately we were still worried about

what the other person was feeling in that moment. Like with the Soul Training episode, it was just like, I mean the Sole Train Awards and you going, even though I didn't feel good, it's just like, but I want him to go experience that, and you were just like, man, I don't feel good, she's in Jamaica, but I'm gonna be all right because you know, I want her to have a good time. Like That's how we both fell in those moments, and that was probably the earliest time

in our life. That was probably the earliest time in our relationship where we were I know we always talk about costantly communicating and the lack thereof sometimes especially on my part, but we were really effective communicators when it came down to that. I think we both gained a level of maturity in that entire interaction that really made me feel like, man, regardless of what I decided to

do here, he got my back. Facts. You know, when when you guys read the details of what we were going through during that time and what was going on, and you hear how each of us were so concerned about the other, especially during this moment of our life, you're gonna be like, that's that's kind of mature for two young kids. And it also made me realize, you know, how we moved forward through this. I didn't say she

over me and you didn't say he over me. We both said we over me, because there's a difference between we over me and he over me. If you constantly put your partner over you, you're oh, you're still isolating one singular person over the betterment of the group, and after a while, that builds resentment. Right when we talked

about the the episode about miscommunicate. The biggest miscommunication was that I was constantly putting you over me, and at times you were putting me over you, and we weren't expressing how we felt. And it wasn't until we were able to say, oh, well, we both collectively want this, so let's find out what's the best decision in the what what decision is the best interests of both of us and not just one of us. Yeah, even since selecting the book title, we had to rework it a

couple of times. M We had some ideas in the very beginning, some kind of preliminary ideas, you know, we were thinking like, oh, you know, de valcating the Brooklyn love story, like what would resonate with people who didn't even know us, because if our book is gonna be in bookstores and stuff like that, there will be people that were going to be exposed to that may don't even know who we are. And one title that kept coming up for the two of us is You're All

I Need. And we really liked it because that's a song that you play a lot. Yeah, and and it was kind of reminiscent of just like us, right. Um, But the feedback that we were getting from the publishers and stuff. They were saying like, you know, you're all

I need. Puts the owner's just on one person. You know, there's not like necessarily a togetherness or it's just saying like you're all I need in order to be happy or you're all I need to in order to thrive, when we all know that that's not the case, Like you have to find that internally. So we had to rework the title a couple of times, and then finally Devout came up with over Me, and we were like, wow,

that's really stuck. And then it was trying to figure out then the subtitle UM and I think in saying the counterintuitive approach to getting everything you want for from your relationship? Um, was that something you came up with? Or was that the producer? I'm trying to know that was that? Was that was something that the whole title was. Actually, let me just pat myself well explain that to people, because some people have been asking like, you know what,

like where'd you come up with that title? So I came up with it because I feel like everything we discuss, especially when it comes to building a relationship, it's counterintuitive to what we've been hearing recently through social media. Social media, what you hear a lot of is I have a list, I want these things, I demand these things. I need to find someone who can check the boxes on all the stuff that I desire in my life. And there's someone out there who will match all of the stuff

that I need. An I I was just like wro wro whoa, whoa. Whether you're a woman or a man, it doesn't matter if you're only concerned about yourself, you can never exist fully in a relationship that's gonna serve both parties. So I was like, realistically, our relationship is extremely counterintuitive, right, because there's other parts of the book where we became closer when my focus was no longer on me, my focus was on you. For example, I gave you this analogy in the car the other day.

I said, you know, I realized that marriage is a lot like philanthropy. Oh yes, this conversation we had. So we'll be having these real end of conversations in the car on the way to the gym and whatnot. We do. That's how that's how we stay together. We laugh at each other, we we bounce ideas, of each other. But to be a philanthropist is to be to be empty, and to be empty in the idea of everything is

about you, this is about someone else. So in order to fully be a philanthropist, you have to have your ship together at home. Right. You can't really help other people unless you're fulfilled, right, And if you live in abundance and you feel secure, then you can say I'm in a position to help other people. I feel like getting into a relationship is a lot like philanthropy because in order to fully be in a relationship, you have

to have your home together. And what I mean your home, I'm talking about your spirit, your soul, and the person as an individual is looking to be of service to people. I'm so fulfilled in who I am as an individual that I can be of service to someone else. That's counterintuitive to what we're saying in relationships. Relationships a lot because most people are looking for someone to compleat them. I need to find someone to fill the gaps in the parts of the lives that I don't I'm not

good at. And then when a person misses a gap, it's like, oh, you're not good enough. You don't fulfill that gap. Whereas to me, if you think about philanthropy, you don't go out in the world saying I'm going to help people and these people better fill the gaps and want to help in them. It's like, no, I'm fulfilled in my life and I want to help people. But philanthropy is also a business, just like marriage is a business. That's a fact, right, So you also have

to help people. But you can't help people unless you have everything around you in place to help people without expecting something in return. That's the biggest part for me. It's the expecting something in return portion. My thing is

with philanthropy. For example, you're going out there to help, right, so you help, you don't neate time, you don't eate resources, and the feeling of fulfillment that you get is sometimes not even tangible, right, It's not like I can it's a material thing that I'm necessarily getting from this act of kindness. It's just me feeling within my soul, within my spirit that I'm doing a good deed to help someone else. And marriages so much like that, Yeah, the

benefits to being married. Right in the business portion of it, you build a business like for example, we did, We're benefiting, yes, financially from the partnership that we have um but ultimately when those things go awry, when the business ain't business in when times are hard, when money is low, Like, what's the one thing that's consistently consistently saved us over the years was the feeling for each other. The feeling

and the love for each other that we have. And I've always heard my mom say, like, love don't pay the bills, right, but the love that we have is enough to sustain us through the moments where the bills might not be getting paid easily. But at least we feel good knowing that we're in the spread together and you're not alone. We'll think about this too. Even with philanthropy,

you don't just choose a random cause. You have to have discernment about a cause that matters to make It's the same thing with people when you're choosing to get married. You don't just choose anybody. You have to have discernment about a cause that means something that matters to you, and and also use discernment to know that that person it's also a philanthropist in their own right and they want to be of service to you and to me.

I felt like speaking about the abortion and speaking about the other topics because there were so many other topics we spoke about in the book. It also allowed us to show people how our spirits have always been to serve the other person. You know what I'm saying, It's never been about me, And in the moments where it's been about me is where we've often gone astray. That's what's so counterintuitive, right. So many people get married because it's about me. What can I gain from being married?

As opposed to saying what can I offer someone else as a spouse? And think about the moments over our life where the focus was shifted to be about me. Me like you in that moment was like, well I need this, I need that. I'm gonna do this for me, And I felt like, you know what, I need this, I'm gonna do this for me. That's usually when things fell apart for every reason, because the selfishness that occurred, or the the lack of consideration for the other person,

or not even that. It's just saying, this is what society has deemed normal to transpire in a relationship or a marriage. This is what a husband or wife is supposed to do. So let me just do this aimlessly thinking I'm doing a good job because that's what everybody said I should be doing. But it doesn't even serve you in the way that you need to be served.

I think about how many people suffer in their marriages for that reason, because they're so concerned about what you know, the patriarchy says, You're so concerned about what the church says. You're so concerned about what you know you've seen growing up. That just does not suit your needs in that moment. And this is what's crazy about speaking about the abortion. Everything we just talked about being a service to each other, right as taboo as abortions have been. Right. Facts and

stats from Trouble. Abortion is a common health intervention. It is safe when carried out using a method recommended by WHO w h U World Health Organization, appropriate to the pregnancy duration and by someone with the necessary skills. Six out of ten of all unintended pregnancies end in an induced abortion. Six out of ten, three out of ten of all pregnancies are terminated of women obtaining abortions and

mothers of American women will have an abortion. By as common as abortions are, it baffles my mind that it is so taboo to talk about, and then people wonder why when we have these discussions about abortions. It's so radicalized and it's so polarizing because people don't just share their experiences and what their thoughts are, and they can't do it in this day and age without feeling judged, condemned,

in shame. You can't share nothing nowadays without like you just have to know, Like if you're going to share something, you're just gonna have to know that you're just going to share it because you want to. And whatever feedback you get, however, people take it unsolicited advice, unsolicited comments. It's just gonna be what it is. It's just gonna be what it is. So it's crazy with these kind

of statistics that that's where we are. And there's so many things around women's health UM that are not that's not discussed. It's not just abortion, this infertility that no one's talking about, the struggles with that UM fibroids, particularly things that plague um African American or women from other ethnicities other than white, things that are plaguing our community that we just don't talk about. And that's so much of the generational trickle down of not feeling comfortable having

these conversations because of shame. UM. In part, why shout out to myself Stir Sakari, who's an rn UM. She's advancing her studies now and she's in uh in grad school getting her masters and women's health because she sees the deficit there um and how there's just a lack of education and a lack of support around African American women having that voice or having that presence um. You know, just even when you go to the clinic or you

go to the doctor. It's like us, for example, now are in the space where we're seeking out black doctors, black dentists, black pediatrician, black you know, if we want to make sure that when we walk into these rooms, into these offices and we may potentially have a problem, or you're just going for your physical or checkup, that's someone who looks like you, who may understand your particular struggles UM and things that you may be predisposed to.

So I'm looking at some of these questions that Trouble presented. Some of these were not going to discuss because you're in the book, and of course we want you guys to purchase the book hard copy, definitely, because that will help us get in the New York Times bestselling copy. Let's put us on your mantle or something on the bookshelf there. There are a couple of questions here that I do want to answer. For example, did this decision

affect your relationship in any way? Yes, it did, and if I'm being honest, it made us closer, which is insane because we didn't agree. Necessarily, we didn't agree, and we don't want to get too much into whose perspective was what, But we didn't agree and we were able to make make it through and come through stronger. And that resonated with me because so many times relationships are dismantled through tragedy, right or dismantled through a tough, stressful situation.

But in this situation, it made us a lot closer because we learned that we we could trust each other, we could rely on each other, and that we always care about each other. You know, there was no point during this whole time where there was an argument where it was just like, well, I believe in and you're not considering my feelings. I don't ever at any point feeling like you never consider my feelings, not one time,

not at all. And that was the earliest. You know, we speak so much about being a service as someone. That was the earliest moment where I think we did ourselves a disservice by not acting in a careful manners. So we were both doing ourselves a disservice as a group collectively or as a couple collectively and as individuals.

But we did so much of a service to each other by being able to really have such a adult conversation at such a young age to figure out what was going to make the most sense for us moving forward. So yeah, there's another question. It says, how does this conversation run abortion affect you now? And do you think there should be a political issue? Let me ask you, as a woman, do you think abortion should be a political absolutely not like there's just no there's there is

no like politics. And a woman's body and her right to decide what happens to her body should never be

a political issue. What should be an issue that when it comes to politics law all that is when instances like that happened and a woman is raped, for example, and she's forced to now bring forth this child who is conceived through rape, and then it's like, what measures are going to be taken to, um, hold this person accountable who raped her, and then you're potentially going to give him rights to this child too at the same time, like it's just so much, it's so convoluted to me

at this point, um that nothing when it comes to a woman's body should ever be a part of a political debate. It just it doesn't make any sense to me, Like, like I just I don't even have much more to say about it because I'm just it's just a hard it's just a hard No, it's a hard note for me. It is a hard note for that's a medical decision that should be made between a woman and her provider

and whoever the provider is. And doctors are shamed for it too, Like you just can't you can't be an O, B. G. Y And that's walking around here saying, yeah, I do this at my clinic. Like when we when this happened for us years ago, it might have been in a time where that was something that was offered and it

was a little bit more accessible. Um. You know, now you have places like planned parenthood and people have more options to nowadays, UM, I feel like in having to talk about things like this, there are other options, like there's the Plan B pill now, which I don't think was available when we were going through this. That wasn't

like an option now too. Um So there are different routes that people continue to ensure that you know, before this even becomes a situation where I need to seek out a termination, I have these resources that I can try ahead of time. UM. I don't think it should be a political issue, and the conversation around it affecting me now it just further reiterates to me that it's such a personal decision. It is really such a personal decision. Um. But like I said early on in the conversation that

it's not just a personal decision for the woman. I feel like the person who got you there or y'all did this together. There should also be a conversation between both of you what what should be done or what the next steps will be taken. So, if you do decide to go forward and have a baby, right, what does that conversation look like between you and the father of this child. Are you considering what he's also thinking

and feeling in this moment? You know, there's a lot of different conversations needs to happen, because as much as it's a woman's right to her body and the right to her choice, she didn't get here alone. How did you feel as a guy in this, Like you know you're you said before, like pregnancy is not the thing that you have to necessarily go through, right, so you

don't have to stop your life for anything. Really, um so like in that moment as a man, or as a young man where you conflicted it all with how to even approach me in the conversation to say how you really felt genuinely, it's interesting to hear to have to answer that question now because I'm going to be thirty nine this year, a father of four boys, so my perspective has changed a lot um mainly because I've also seen the effects that pregnancy has had on you,

you know, almost losing you twice, So that puts me at fifty percent of the time when you were pregnant, there was a chance that you could have no longer been here. So these are things that I think people who are having opinions about abortions don't consider because a lot of people have opinions without having real world experience.

For example, there's no way in the world a man that is pro life would say to her his wife, not gonna will uncle who was raped, for example, you have to have that baby, and your rapist is going to have rights over the child that he forcibly put

into your body. So now you're not only being raped once, you're being raped over and over and over again by the state, because now the state is giving the rapist more rights over your body than you know what I'm saying, Like, if you really just think about that, there's no way a sane person man becauld say that that's okay, young devout before having kids, before seeing what pregnancy can do to a woman's body. Was more along the lines of pro life. We don't know what this life is going

to be. Why how could we take this life away before seeing what this could be? The next president of the United States, you know, that was one of the yea that was That was one of the things that I'm like, well, I love her and she loves me, and everything's gonna be fine, and yeah, you can figure

it out. Like it to me, it's hard to ask people to have an objective idea of thought about this because it is so like singular when it comes to what decision needs to be made for what woman, which is why it should be a personal decision based on that circumstances. Casting a wide net over all women, saying all women shouldn't be allowed to do something to me

seems like it doesn't make any sense. So as a man, and I hate talking about this top topic because I feel like men shouldn't even have an opinion on something that's so personal to women. Because here's the thing. Men would hate it if if women came up with a law and said you have to get a sectomy by this time. You know what I'm saying, I think about it.

Just think about that, if we're going to control all women's reproductive organs, imagine a council of women and said, well, we're all gonna get together now and all men passed the ages of thirty five, if you don't plan on having children, you gotta go get a a sectomy. Think about that, you know what I'm saying, Like like like,

think about that? Or what if a young man is as testicular cancer And I remember one of my teammates in college had testicular cancer and he had to remove one of his are nuts, right, What if the rule was you can't do that surgery because that would limit your ability to reproduce, so you have to live with the cancer and possibly die. Because that's what they're doing to women now. Some women have to make a choice. If I have this child, I could lose my life.

And now they're saying, well, you don't get a chance to choose your life, or the fetus is life. You have to go through it and see what happened topic and it's going to rupture your whole flopen and you're dying, which has happened in America. There have been young women who have lost their life because they couldn't get abortions,

and they're like, that's just part for the course. Imagine imagine a council of women telling man, hey, listen, I know you got to sticular cancer and you don't plan on using your balls, but because of reproductive health politics, you can't get the surgery to remove it, and you got to see what happens with the cancer. Men would go crazy, But it's the truth, though, Like I feel like people need to understand that every situation is isolated and different and it should be left up to the

people who are making the decision. And when I say people, it shouldn't just be left to the woman because two people sat down and decided unless it was forced on the woman. If it's forced on the woman, she didn't have a choice. So now since she didn't have a choice, my man's you don't have a choice. You put something in her body, she should decide. That's how I feel about it, honestly. But I do also feel like speaking about abortions as a man is man splinting, and it's

highest level, and it's hard. Women are on the attack, like it's it's ridiculous. It's hard to even watch. When I watch some of the debates, I'm like, it's just really a debate, really, But I do want to applaud you because we need to go take a break. I do want to applaud you for being brave enough to say and this is what she said to me, babe. I may get some scrutiny, I may lose some followers, I may lose a following. I don't care. I don't care. I wish I had someone to speak out on what

they were going through before I even got pregnant. So I'm going to do that. Absolutely. I just hope that I just hope that it can help somebody, because that's the whole point of why we do what we do. UM, And that's the whole point of us trying to be vulnerable and transparent. So if this speaks to someone or someone you know, share the episode, UM, and just have the conversations early on, especially parents, like we're looking at ourselves in a different lens now, you know, us at

that age versus us now so much more responsibility. We're raising the next generation of children. Um, These conversations have to be had. So let's take a quick break and we're gonna come get into y'all's business a little bit with our listening letters. So let's go pay some bills and come back, all right, y'all, And we're rolling right into listener letters, all right. So y'all continuing to write in So we love you for that. Thank you so

so so so much. Hi. Family, First, I want you both to know how much of an inspiration you are to the culture. Thank you, especially after speaking about what we spoke about. This is the reason why we do it, y'all, So we love that. It's refreshing to see a couple love and support one another the way you do. So thank you for that example. Look at affirmations right out of the back. Thank you. I'm a twenty nine year old black woman and I am in love with my

best friend. He's twenty nine, sixty months older than me, and we met freshman year in college. After the last twelve years, we've been through so much together. Both went to the military after college. He has two beautiful babies, failed relationships, etcetera. And now we both find ourselves single and loving on each other. Yes, the feelings same, mutual, but I'm not sure if he sees me the way I see him. I'm a lover to the core, and when I love, I love hard. He's everything to me.

He makes me feel like I can accomplish anything and everything and still be his feminine woman, which isn't something that comes easy to me. The problem is he broke things off with his son's mother around the middle of two thousand twenty two, and ever since then, it's been me and him. If I call, he's coming. If I need him, he's there. It's just that I feel as

though he only does it because he's lonely. We talked about a committed relationship before, but I don't feel secure and how that conversation went, it seems like he wants to have me in this capacity and still be able to mingle. I don't know what to do or how to explain to him how I'm feeling, because at the end of the day, I don't want to lose my best friend. I love him and I know he loves me. Should I tell him how deep my love really runs for him? Or should I move on? Thanks in advance

for me, tell me what it's going to you see yourself? Girls? See yeah, I about to say, girl, I shot my shot and look at me now, look at me now. And this is before I even thought the vow was going to be my best friend, my person, Like I don't even know if there's a word to describe like what you are to me, but you know, as close

as we can get it too, your my person. You're my best friend, and I just feel like you need to say how you feel because it also may be a thing too where he feels the same way and he doesn't know what to say. It's like, how do I get myself out of this friend zone situation? You know? And sometimes people are purposely put in the friend zone situation because they know for sure they don't want anything more than that. But the fact that you two seem to have been kicking it for a long time, going

through things that are very similar. He's gone a straight he's been out there, he had the babies and all that, and he's still there. He might just be waiting for you to make the most is So I say, shoot your shot, Steph Currie wish. That's what I was going to get to. He might be comfortable in that wet Now you have a friend with benefits. Clearly their friends with benefits. She didn't say that they were intimate, but I'm getting intimacy here are you? I'm getting She said

love on each other. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Specific That may be coword for she'd be dropping that thing on him and now they'ncomfortable being that. Now he may be comfortable being able to have his cake and eat it too since he's mingling with other women, but still can get some consistency. But I feel like that's not working for you. So when you ask, should I say something? Are you comfortable in this situation? No?

So since you're not comfortable, speak on it, because you can't spend the rest of your life being a friend with benefits. So if you're not comfortable, now, what's the worst that could happen? You're no longer friends because he feels uncomfortable. You're uncomfortable anyway. Girls. Half the battle is

trying to keep someone's attention. And you said that whenever you call, he's coming, you know, whenever you ring, he's there, So that in itself already shows that them other chicks that he may be mingling with Clarton don't mean that much to him if he's leaving, you know, um, And he might have been coming out of these relationships, and he called things off with his son's mother around the middle of it hasn't even been a year yet technically, so he might be just kind of like seeing, you know,

enjoying himself being a little single for now, which is cool, which is fine, and he's entitled to do that. And then you know, if you express that and at least you have some clarity. I just hate lack of clarity. And then it gives you the choice to decide whether it's something you want to continue to nurture as a friendship or if you feel like, man, this friendship may be prohibiting me from then opening myself up to help up to meeting someone else too, because you may not

want to be twenty nine and single forever. Right, So if it's not gonna work out for y'all, as that you might be able to then move forward saying all right, well, he's just going to continue be my friend. So the wireless question you can ask is should I have a conversation about it? If you're thinking about it, have a conversation.

You know we're gonna tell you to have. There should be no conversation that they'd be going on conversed, you know what I'm saying, Like, always have the conversation and be prepared for whatever response you get. Don't have the conversation expecting a certain in response, because then you're going to be in for disappointment. Have the conversation and see where it goes. Absolutely good luck to you, since I

hope it works out. Please hit me back and let me know like everything worked out, because you're not like a follow up. Number two. Hello, my name is Unice from New Jersey Becaudan and de Val. I'm a huge fan of both of y'all and your podcast is awesome. Thank you, Unice. I've been with my boyfriend for a decade and we both agree that we don't want to get married and have any children, and we are completely

okay with that. Both sides of our family are not being accepted of our decision and it's making us not want to be around them no more. What should we do? Ps I already pre ordered your book. Thank you so much for pre ordering our book. Thank you. This is very simple. Do not tailor make your relationship to anyone else's expectations because you will fail. Period. You will always fail at being what other people want you to be because you can only be what you want to be.

This is very simple. You both agree that you don't want to get I didn have kids, but you love each other and want to be around each other. Do what makes you happy until it doesn't make you happy anymore, period. If it makes you happy to the end of time, stay that way. Don't let anybody else tell you that you have to get married or you have to have kids. That is not the case. Even us as a married couple who wrote a book called We Over Me about

the advantages of being monogamous and married. Also believe that if two people agree that they don't want to be monogamous and be married and have kids should live in their ultimate happiness. It's giving forced philanthropy. And nobody wants to be a forced philanthropist. Okay, nobody want to force nobody to be of service to something that they don't want to be of service to. That's a sure fire way to be setting yourself up for a life of misery,

do y'all. And if the family don't accept it, that's tough. They can make whatever decisions that they want, because half the time those family members are living in misery as well, and they, you know, just want that for you as well because they like the company. Don't do it, don't subscribe to it, period. And but but have the conversation with the family, like, yo, this is the last time mom discussing this fact. This is what we want from

my life. And it doesn't matter what you say, what you do, how you say, and how you do what we're gonna do what's in the best sages of ourselves. Leave it alone, period, okay, point blank period. If you'd like to be featured as one of our listener letters, Now this is something we're gonna force you all to do, not just kid, We're going force you all to write to us because we want to hear from you. UM. Email us at dead as Advice at gmail dot com. And you don't have to be like unite and give

your name. But what you do need to do is please purchase our book absolutely hard copy, prefer Blake. And that's D E A D A S S A D V I C E at gmail dot com. All Right, moment of truth time. So we're talking about UM. We over me from the pages of our book, UM, from the depths of our heart, being able to share this particular portion of our life with you guys. Ultimately, I just hope it helps someone like that's my moment of truth. UM. I can't go back in the past and change a

decision that was made. And I'd like to think that, UM, the struggles that I've had with the decision that I did make, UM, I was able to make peace with with myself, with you, with God. UM. For a long time, I struggled with the idea that I would be punished in perpetuity and I would never have children. One day, Yeah, I honestly felt like that was just it for me, and that decision was going to haunt me for the

rest of my life in the worst way possible. And look how wrong I was, Look how wrong I was. And I know there's a lot of women who struggle with that. UM. I know someone in particular that said she had one at seventeen and she cannot have children to this day and she feels like that's the reason why. It's a punishment and perpetuity for a decision that she made when she was a child. UM. So I just

hope that this can help someone. And if you've ever been in that position, UM, and you require healing, because it does require healing. UM. I just hope that you if you don't have the support that you need, that you find it, UM, that you're able to overcome it, and that you're able to share and feel confident in sharing your story without shame and judgment, because it's necessary to have these conversation stions. Absolutely, my moment of truth

is simple. The greatest gift you can give anyone is to inspire them to be better than they were yesterday. And through we over me, we are hoping to inspire as many people as we can to just be better humans so that the world can be a better place. That's a fact, all right, y'all. Be sure to follow us on Patreon if you have not signed up yet and subscribed. We have so much good exclusive content for y'all.

You're going to see the dead As Podcast live shows in its full entirety, extended episodes, extended clips where we have rehashes and we chat with the crew after each episode, extended stuff with the family. You'll see more of the boys, so be sure to sign up there. And if you're not following the podcast page yet, please do so on social media at dead As the Podcast and you can find me at Cadena. I am on Instagram and TikTok

and I am devout. And if you're listening on Apple podcasts, be sure to rate, review, sub subscribe, and go right now and purchase. We over meet a hard copy baby, I am manifesting New York Times bestseller. We need your help, love, y'all. We appreciate you do that for us. We'll see you all next time. Peace. Oh who's coming on the book tour?

Come on through. Oh that's right, we do have a book a little bit see him tell him dead Ass is a production of I Heart Media podcast Network and is produced by the Nora Opinion and Triple Follow the podcast on social media at dead as to Podcast and Never Miss a Thing