Vulnerability is the New Black with Kier Gaines

more important thing to mention, we're married. We are. We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of life's most taboo topics, things most folks don't want to talk about through the lens of a millennium married couple. Dead adds is the term that we say every day. So when we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Were about to take pillow Talk to a whole new level. Dead

ass starts right now. So this story time is gonna take me back to three days ago and I was coming into the garage and KaDee was walking out of the garage and she just rubbed my chest real quick, and she looked at me, and she said what's the matter, Like, what's wrong with you? And I was like nothing, nothing, I'm good, I'm good. Walk past and she came up behind me. While she was I was just making my

plate for food or whatever. So I rubbed the back of my neck and she was just like, what's what's wrong? I can tell something's wrong. And I was like, can I be honest for a second and she was like yeah, And I was like, I missed my girlfriend. And she was like what, Like what am I not doing? What do you mean what am I not doing? And I was just like, you're not not doing anything, like you You're just not not doing anything You're doing. The problem

is you're doing all of the things. But um, I explained to her that I had to I'm learning how to reconcile with the fact that I have to share her right not only with four kids, but I have to share her with her mom. Then I have to share her with her dad. Then this is a new thing for us where her her brother and sister are no longer with us every day like we used to be. So when they come and visit, I got to share

her with them. Then I got to share her with work and that should be whacked to me sometimes like it just it just be whack. I don't feel like sharing. And Codeine instantly went into girlfriend o. She said, I hate you, babe, my get it right. So she leaves, comes back. She has on my favorite red shorts, the co wed shorts and the crop top, and then while we're eating, she's just sitting on my lap while we eat, And in that moment, it just felt like, yeah, this

like this is just what I felt like. I felt like I wasn't being seen. But I learned to express that in real time so that we can deal with it in real time as opposed to trying to harness it inside somewhere and then find a way to just suppress it. Sounds good. I love real time because we've learned. I think over the years that nothing good comes from festering at all. Shout out to my man, Hope. This is some spoken word that he said and wanted his

song as the Blueprint two album. Yes see if you'll know this song, see if you know this song, I see. I said, jealousy, I said, got the whole family mad at me? I said, Then b I said, devout, remind yourself nobody built like you. You just sign yourself. I see no, I agree, I said, my one of a kind self getting stoned every day like Jesus Dad. Then b I said, you know what's the end of it, ship,

I always be forgetting. I always forget the worst. You have to say, the right being not I changed a couple of words to what be I said, has been said before. Keep doing your thing, he said, say no more. That always resonated with me because it was it was a constant reminder that you do design yourself right. And there's a partner where he doesn't say I got the whole family, mad at me, I say I got the whole industry. Mad at me, I said. Anytime you decide

to move differently than everybody else, they get mad. People in control get upset because you're moving differently. Is a reminder to all the other people that they've already got to fall in line. Is that I don't have to move this way, And if this person can move this way and be successful, I might try something different. And um that song were the world said. That song resonated with me in this instant because in the beginning it says I see I said jealousy, I said, got the

whole family mad at me. I said, it kind of reminded me sometimes, like how I don't mind sharing you with the family, but sometimes I get jealous. I see, I said jealousy, I said, you know what I'm saying. And then when I when I try to reel you back in or bring you back in, it's almost like the family gets mad at me. You know what I'm saying, like, oh, your mom me going on date night? You know that's kind of and it's like man like, I'm trying to reconcile.

But um, also it's a constant reminder that, um, you know, I agree. I said, my one of a concept get stoned every day like Jesus did. It's like when you're so different that other people can't recognize you, the first thing they want to do is throw stones. And what we're gonn to talk about today is normalizing masculine men talking about their feelings in real time and not feeling like Jesus and getting stoned because they're walking a different wall.

Dive in with a special guest. Let's pay some bills first, though, we're gonna do that, We're gonna come back, We'll finish up some story time and then we'll introduce our special guest today. Boom, all right, we're back. It's funny because when you said three days ago, I was like, what happened three days ago that we got a story about? Because you know, there's always something to talk about in

this house. Um, but yeah, you know what, It's funny you said that when I when you mentioned that you were feeling some kind of way about something or you just looked a little down, I instantly always looked to myself and be like, Okay, what did I do or not do to potentially put him in a funk? And I know you've been talking to me more recently about it's not necessarily just something I've done or not done.

It just maybe something that you're feeling in that moment, and I have to find a way to not necessarily talk you out of feeling that way, or just saying babe, you should not feel that way, but acknowledging that you feel a way about something, and then furthering discuss why

you may feel like that. You know, Um, I think far too many times in the past I've just always tried to find a way to remedy it or find a way to explain why I may have done something to make you feel a way, um, and explaining my reasonings for that, um, and so many times and times again you just kind of had to shake me and say uh but so many words without putting your hands on me. But you're just like, hey, I just need you to understand where I'm coming from and how I

feel in this moment. So we're gonna talk today about opening up a little bit more and being receptive to our men when they want to express themselves. Right, um, yeah, So let me go ahead and just jump right into it now. In a recent viral moment with Lauren Lyndon, she says, so we're all going to get chin checked by life one way or the other, so I might as well focus on my enlightenment and roll with the river and not fight the rocks. A sentiment that I think we can all relate to at some point or

the other. She got that from Bruce Leeter crash water flow like water did Cairo? Did he quote that recently? My baby's obsessed with Bruce Lee just so y'all know. But anyway, that's sometimes easier said than done. Right in reality, how do we deal with those emotions when life gets tough. So we brought in the homie today to chat with us. Mr ker Gains, a license mental health therapist who uses his platform to help us figure out all the things

all right. Here shares with us his knowledge as a therapist and his experience as a husband and father of two baby girls to relate to people in all stages of their process. And he is here to talk to us today. Brother kier, how are you big up yourself? Bro?

Big up yourself? Listen. The last time we saw you was at the Dad Gang Awards, right, And I think at that time I was pregnant, but I don't think I told anyone yet, but I think, yeah, and here your wife was pregnant also or you had just recently found out as well, And I know that that held you close and whispered and it's another boy. Yeah, like what I think. Kira was one of the first people to know outside of our general family that we were

having another boy. But it was great to see you there. Um. I was happy to be in the midst of such greatness, such amazing father's fatherhood, um, just around amazing black men. The energy in that room was just it filled me up my cup overflow within that moment. So here, we're happy to have you today with us on dad, ass, how's everything been. You're getting any sleep? Because I know, I sure it was a late the wife is getting more sleep than me, And we talked about a little

bit before. It's it's not even it's how broken up the sleep is. As soon as you get comfortable, something happens. And y'all got multiple so you know, even when the baby is sleeping good and everything is copasthetic, you got the older one who's gonna have some issues and then just it's crazy the teamwork element that multiple kids brings out of you, either in a good way or either your lack of or you know, your abundance of. But that teamwork capability is gonna get tested hard, super hard.

Absolutely absolutely that's how we work. It's like whoever is better equipped in that moment to handle whatever the situation is diffused that fire, go ahead and do it. Just know on the flip side, somebody else is handling everything else right absolutely that we're gonna chat today a little

bit more. I mean I wanted to a kid made a video I think it was last week or maybe a couple of days ago that really spoke to me, and he was hiding in the room and he was talking about normalizing the fact that sometimes you just don't like your kids and you don't like being a parent, and it's fine to express that, but what's more important is how you learn to deal with those emotions so that you can be a productive parent, can also be

a productive individual. What I thought was most important about that was normalizing that feeling because a lot of people have that feeling and they feel like I'm the only parent in the world that feels like that. Then that's when depression can start. That's when you feel like you're inadequate as a parent because you have these feelings. If more people begin to express how they truly feel and then you see that, then you feel like that. But you still show up every single day for your kids.

You're still a phenomenal parent. Can you talk a little bit about that care? Yeah, you you just gotta hit the nail on the head man. That's that's a lot of what counseling is. Humans are so funny. If you can get humans in the room and they're vulnerable enough to talk to you about the things that bother them the most deeply. They'll explain it as if they're the only individuals that ever experienced this, and I just be wanting to tell them, like, brother, last five people who

sat in that chair also felt the same thing. We're thinking silo sometimes and that's not the truth. But we we also have to go around social acceptability norms, especially when you live on the internet like we do and like y'all do, that the expectations of what an ideal or what a perfect person does, and then they get reinforced when we see these images of immaculate kids, always

well behaved. I laugh about whenever you post that that that k be going in on the kids and they look at you like, now, bro, don't look at me, because that's real. Like we don't always get to see that every enforcement that we're not the only ones to deal with it. So that's just a part of the human condition, Bro. It's it's it's believing that you have to meet the standard that really may not exist outside your own head. But I don't feel pressure by that

no more. That's why I made the video. I love my children. I don't have to tell anybody that I got old woman everdence here that I love my children, but sometimes being a parent, you can have a bad relationship with I don't always like having to raise small children. And it's not because I'm a bad person. I separated myself from that idea because that's not true. It's not because I'm a bad parent. I ain't no evidence to

prove that I'm a bad parent. That's not true. It's simply because it's two conflicting things that and it's hard to envision two conflicting perspectives both holding equal space. Can you talk a little bit about even marriage right and how sometimes you wake up and you don't want to be married, like like you wake up and you just like not today, ain't today, but you still have a

responsibility to show up as a spouse. Can you talk about as a man, managing those emotions, because I get so many dudes, especially once the kids come, they feel wild guilty, like they're like they're like, damn, I really just missed my girlfriend, I missed my wife. These kids in here now they're taken from my time and they're like ded man, I feel so guilty and bad that I feel like that, And just like you said, I'd be like, dude, you're not the only every every dude

that has had a baby. And this past year has come to me at some point it was like, you're on the side, like your deal, Like am I wrong for like just missing my wife and wanting my wife and one and not wanting the baby to be there and this? And I was like, no, bro, you're not wrong for that. But how do you deal with that? Like what is? What do you tell people? Because I try to tell them like, you're not wrong for that, but then I also don't know how to tell them

to deal with those emotions. I just tell them they have to show up. Can you give me some real professional insight on how to deal with with that type of conversation. It's a lot there. Uh, it's a lot there because in order to understand that thought, we got to kind of content with where it comes from, and it comes from being a fatherless a weird space, and there's no predominant voice that really speaks for dads and fathers that has the same you know that women who

speak for mothers. Of course, there's different things that state for women. They do an awesome job of speaking up for themselves, but men make the mistake a lot of times. I know I did of that expectation piece. We just talked about expecting to make some type of connection with the baby and not understanding that that's a stranger in your house. That's just you don't know this person. You didn't develop a biological bond with this person over three

quarters of a year. You know, you're you're learning on the go. There's no biological attachment outside your d n A right then and there. So I think it's that piece. Um, it's it's also we have a tendency and when we get together men, when we click up, we whisper in the shadows about how difficult. Because if you speak to if you speak that out, you trickle down with the expectation. Oh well, if you're talking about that, then you must not be a good partner. You're not a good partner.

You're not a good husband. If you're not a good husband, you're not a good person. And it speaks to how we see ourselves. I mean, just talking with the homies. Ain't nobody gonna boil it down to that. But every plant has a route though, right, and that's where it comes from. Um, you know, it's a relationship with anything.

This is what I tell people, it's a relationship with anything, nothing that you have, no matter how much you enjoy it, no matter how grateful you are for there's nothing that you have that you will be perfectly okay having a forced interaction with a hundred percent of the time, seven days a week, twenty four hours a day. Talk about it. You could love us. What is a u Shiaso massage? I don't know. Shiasa is a dog breed. But just like if you got my friends, how you're like, man,

this is fire. After the second hour, you're like, man, I can't feel my legs no more. After four days of having that massage, I think you're ready to doing Somebody like yeah, so I don't flying all over the place, But like, this is romanticized idea of marriage and what it is and how it feels on the inside. And people have this idea in this narrative, and it's when you actually see what marriage looks like on the inside, you're like, oh, this it's not bad, but it's not

what I expected. I'm more tired than I thought. I got more conflicting feelings than I thought. I can't just speak my mind all the time like I thought it's a lot of variables, and the kind of person you are takes the shape of your relationships sometimes, like we talk about Bruce Leep you like water like water in the cup, it takes the shape. You may not always like what that shape turns into for yourself. There's a

lot there. It's not just one singular thing. It's it's a million little pieces that are so close together that it looks like a unit. So you're conflicted because it's a lot of stuff bumping up against each other. You know what I noticed too, even about like you said in this space, you just brought up so many good points. Women are allowed to speak openly about how they feel about marriage and parenthood and motherhood, but when a man speaks,

he's often met with vitriol. One from men saying, you know what I'm saying, you sound like a punk or pussy or you know, you sound soft, But then two with women like you sound entitled, you sound selfish, and it's like, hey, like and my not allowed to have feelings as a human being. You know, a perfect example, when Kadin and I spoke about um kids. I think it was last year when we were pregnant. We we spoke about how much we hated pregnancy, but we love

our kids. There was some constituents that felt like, man, pregnancy is a blessing. You should always appreciate every blessing. It's like, does that mean that I can't be honest about how I feel about the fact that my wife's feet swell up and the fact that she's overweight and had to deal with preclam she and she had body image issues because of she didn't like the way her body was changing. I'm not allowed to speak on the fact that I feel bad that my wife has to

go through this carry and my child. It's like, we don't have a space to be open about how it affects us. And I think that that's killing us as a community because every dude I asked, you know, when I ask how's how's everything going? Everything, Oh it's good, bro. Then they pulled me aside and be like and you know, and I see them break down, and I'm like, yo, you need to be more vulnerable with that with all

of us in the group. Don't pull them, don't put up the veil to be tough when it's a group of us, Tell us all how you feel so that you'll notice one person be like, oh, yeah, that's that's me too. I think it is now to the our generation, I think is the first generation that's actually encouraging our men and and pleading with our men to speak up and to say how they feel because typically in history, well historically men weren't allowed to really speak up for

how they felt and then tell us their emotions. So sometimes it's maybe a little off putting, I feel like, because you don't expect for a man to be as vocal about how they feel, which is something that I don't care you are doing as a therapist. I'm sure you probably get people looking at you sideways sometimes when you say you're a whole therapist because therapy and black

men were like oil and one. So the first thing is most people don't realize that here is actually a therapist, so when he's talking, they don't understand where this this is. That's how we number two, When he does express herself, sometimes I see people like, you know, typically it's women who feel off put by his honesty and his candor, and I'm like, that is the problem there. He's being honest about how he feels and pat backing up with an intelligent thought out process of how to deal with it,

and still you're finding fault with what he feels. That to me is a problem. We think it's when you go out in the world, you gotta deal with other people's perspectives. I'm gonna tell anybody who's listening everything I say is going to come back down to perspectives and expectations, because that really makes the world go around. Those are the that's the foundation of your community interaction with any

other human um. I think for a lot of times, the women have a very specific expectation of what a man is and what a man should be. And while that's one very specific definition, actually living inside this experience, like, it's one thing to say men should be more vocal, men should be more honest about their feelings. But I'm an eighties baby, and back in my neighborhood, most people Mama's wasn't saying, hey, stop crying. They put you in the chest and call you the F word. That were

And I equate that to a freight train, y'all. A freight train that has a hundred twenty four cars on it, That thing weighs a good jillion times if it's going full speed. If I hate the brakes right now on that joint ain't going stop in Atlanta. It's gonna stop somewhere in West Virginia because it has that much momentum

behind it. And that's what masculinity is. It's it's a culture, it's an archetype, it's a bill, that's an idea, it's an ideal, especially if you're a black man um and anything that falls away from that, it it risked the chance of being ostracized. And we all want community at the end. That's just what we all were, communal people. And when I just read this article called white black people black men are the white people of black people, I just think it's Damian Young who just wrote it.

Set my soul on fire. But it was a very informative article. It was. It's a lot. It's it's this weird pedestalization that we have a women that's not really supportive. It's just pedestalizing yas queen. That's cool, bro, you don't really talk like that, for one, and to like see how you feel, you don't have to do all of that. You can see how you feel um and and still be in support of that woman. But on an inverse, it's we live in a society where people think if

you disagree with me on my perspectives, then you're against me. No, I just disagree with Somebody hopped in my inbox and was like, you follow Candis Owens. I'm gonna follow you. I'm like, I don't agree with what she says, but I want to hear her perspective. I don't need to

look on everything. I just said the same thing. I honestly believe that life comes down to perspective, right, especially on on social media here, when you choose to follow certain people, you are creating a very narrow perspective if you only choose to follow the people who agree with all of your ideology. I made it a point to try to just follow a bunch of different things, so when I can get a broader perspective, that doesn't mean I'm gonna agree, but I want to understand where are

you even coming from with this thought process? And even if I don't understand it, at least I could here where it's coming from. But people will will be like, yo, follow this, and they'll be like, yo, you're wrong for that, and I'm like, guys, guys, I'm I'm not uh, Instagram consumer. Okay, I don't sit on my Instagram all day, go through my feed and just say this is gonna be my life. Right.

I watched documentaries, I read books, There's so many other things I do to to feed my hunger for knowledge. But it's interesting you brought that up, because it's almost as if you're not even allowed to disagree with someone because of social media, or in the minute you disagree your anti them, not that thought, you're antipe them, and it's like, this is crazy. That's people, that's where that's where we are. Remember, social media is only does is amplify who we really are, what we can say when

we feel protected by anonymity. I feel protected by screen. I could talk to you crazy right now, what you're gonna do. But if we are in person and you feel my energy and it's different, you don't talk to me like that. So we we we become the dogs in the cages. But I just look at it as a good I don't look at it's a good or bad thing. It just is what it is, and I try to meet things with that um, that neutrality. I think the term for what you're calling is ideal centrism.

When you believe your ideas to be the center of the universe and not just your particular pocket of the universe. But I must say, when it comes to men and how you think about men as a whole, you you can't even talk about man's issues. You have to first address the things that men have contributed to negatively before you even talk about the instruy the issues that center men. And when the cam versation starts there, because it's such

a necessary and underdiscussed conversation amongst men and women. I'm talking about rape, coach, I'm talking about intimate partner violence, all of that stuff. When it does happen, the conversation don't move. You can't get off of that. It's too big, it's too many variant opinions. No one's going to walk away from that conversation feeling satisfied. Someone's going to feel you know what it is, you know what it is.

Men don't want to be held accountable the same way women don't want to be held accountable all the times. Similar to like it's bro it's the truth. I don't call it blame placing, but people don't like to be accountable. For example, white people say it's all the time, why

I gotta be blamed for what my ancestors did. It's not blamed, it's being accountable for for your privilege, right the same way acknowledging the same way in the black community, men have to be accountable and acknowledge their privilege within the lack community and the hierarchy of men and women. But then when you start doing that, especially as a men, as a man, men get turned off to you holding

them accountable. The same way when you, as a man try to hold women accountable for their privilege, women will say they get turned off. Is like, I'm tired of men trying to hold women accountable? Is that referencing like what Kire said, The title was that black men are the white Yes, that's that's pretty much. That's exactly what

it was. Men. Black men in our community have experience a ton of privilege for centuries, and when you bring it up to black men, a lot of time they get defensive because we've also dealt with our fair share of racial profiling and prejudice and systemic racism. So a lot of us don't want to hear it. Right, But like Kire says, when you're starting when you're talking about a relationship, especially between a man and the women, you have to start with the route. When you start with

the route, you start with accountability. Correct. Yeah, I would say accountable. That's accountability is the top of the route because it's you're making an amazing point, and I completely agree with you. But let's let's go a step below accountability. That's that self actualization piece. The reason accountability don't work. Men don't accountability need to do women. Humans suck at accountability. It's just not a thing that we like. We don't

like to admit mistakes. It reminds us that we're less than our ideal selves in our head, and that hurts away from pain, you know, we run away from choices. That's just how the brain works. But when when we talk about accountability, it's it comes down to a self awareness. And also that word privilege will always set people off because in some ways it insinuates that you did not

suffer through the things you suffer through. It minimizes in some ways all the things that you had to work through and and kind of like, uh, devalues it a little bit. Oh, you have white privilege. Yeah, but we grew up in the trailer pocket, Alabama. My dog, my dad was an alcoholic, my mom was on crystal glad. I don't have healthy family system. What privilege you talking about?

I make twenty five thousand a year. You know, you tell a man you got you got black privilegs like I just got shot at the other week at a party. Every time my wife sends me to go pump her gas and we live, we are were projects adjacent. You know what I'm saying. She sent me to gop gas because she's scared. I'm like, yeah, the tall black man with the three hundred dollars sweatsuit and seven hundred dollars

Jordan's yeah, let's have help, right right, right. But that also goes back to that two competing ideologies can both hold space at the same time. They both have truth. Yes, yes, yes, it's not either or it's not a competition. And there's space for all these perspectives because your perspectives unique to you. What's going All three of us are having the same conversation right now, We're not having the same experience right now.

It's unique to who we are as individuals. I can't keep minds so close that now, care standards becomes cadem standards becomes the vowel, standards becomes everybody standards. You should do what I do. I think that's a very skewed way of looking at the world. See this, this this is perfect because I'm I think we're talking to Jason about the six and the nine theory. Right. The way I used to talk to my young men about their

emotions was understanding perspective. Right. I would sit down in the gym and I had a piece of paper with a nine on it, and it had no dash underneath, so they couldn't tell if it was a nine or a six. And I would sit him across from me, and I would sit there and said, would you tell me what you see? And he would say I see a nine. And I would say, well, I see a six, and he would look at me and then he would be like, oh, I could see that because from your

angle it looks like a six. I said, that's how you, as a man, need to learn how to deal with your emotions. Right. You're talking to your mom, she's a woman. You're talking to your coach, you're talking to someone else. Understand that their perspective gives them a completely different view of the same world you're looking at, and they'd be like,

they'd be like damn, and I'm like, yeah. So when you get into an argument with someone, the first thing you have to do to control your emotions is trying to remove yourself from your perspective and see what they're saying. And I said, think about it. You just step over here next to me. Step and so then they step over here and they'd be like, damn, of course about you, right, like it's it's the six. And I'm like, I'm right now because here, but you were right to being a nine.

We were both right, which is the same thing you said, both competing ideologies can exist at the same space. Part of controlling your emotions is understanding that when you start thinking that my ideology is the only way the world should be, that's when you get frustrated. That's when you

start feeling ostracized. That's when you feel like no one understands you, and it can be lonely, and that's when people get sensitive and they get defensive, and that's when they start, you know, anybody back in the corner or in the cage becomes a like a wounded animal. And I think for us, especially as people. When we can understand that perspectives create our our viewpoint, we can control

our emotions a little bit more. So what you just said about everything being perspectives is perfect for what people

need to hear. Yeah, and especially if I could just I know, we want to push the conversation forward, But you just made me think about something that ties back to being a black man and having male privileged Because when you're a man and you walk and just of a man, you're the world is norm to to us two men, you know what, it's just by default, and the world is critically unfair to women, um, you know, exponentially in a different way than it's unfair to men.

The world's way more unfair to women. But when you don't have anyone telling you that that male perspective, you know, when you're sitting on the top, I could fall asleep in the car because I'm not afraid. You know, that's a form of male privilege, and you have a responsibility to kind of be able to look at that from that other perspective and say, oh, no, you know what, now, it ain't privilege. Oh you know what, No, I can see how you see that? Yep, Yeah, that's how you

expand your awareness. Wow, that's dope. Here, let's some talk about your choice to become a therapist. I'm just intrigued by it because of course you're giving us a wealth of knowledge here, just based off of the conversation we've had. So fo. I'm literally sitting here just like you know, with my eyes wide open, just absorbing. Um. But it's not often that you see a black young man that's a therapist. What made you follow this, this this course of work? Yeah, I just so happened to be working

at a school for students that had behavior issues. You know, these are these issues challenges, um, a lot of them. It was economic you know how that go when you're a little black boy, automatic special behavior issues. Um. But yeah, these students and I worked on special then, and they had these profound behavior challenges. And it was a group of clinicians, these black women. In my whole life, I thought a clinician was somebody who was clinicians another word

of therapist. But I thought there was someone who stiffen. Oh, so how does that make you feel? You know, tell me more about you know, just really g rigid and goofy and making you feel nah, like they was wearing Legans and Jordan's during the session. I'm like, hold on

a man, who are y'all? And you can see the change in these kids that came from the same neighborhood I came from, where your mama may not have the time to love on you the way she may want to, and the boys and the neighbor to pick on you. So you learn to talk with these a little bit more and it changes who you are. And you can see these clinicians chipping away of that. I'm like, damn that dope. And the closer I got to them, the more I started to fall in love with the craft.

And I was just fortunate enough. I mean, y'all don't notice, but I earlier I was a rapper. I started off as a rapper. Then I was doing talent shows that I was doing battle raps down Howard University. So I was just lucky enough to figure out what I was good at and and what I like to do. It's not the same thing, and this just it's fell in the middle of those two things, and I just I fell into it, man, and it's just a part of who I am, not just what I do now. I

want to. I want to applaud you because like you, I started out when I when I first retired, my brother worked at the District seventy five school. He still does with special like kids. Um a lot of kids who are bounced back from prison. So it's a lot of young dudes who done time who come back home, who are trying to figure out their life. They got to go to high school. But he and I both worked at Eagle Academy also, which was a middle school at the time that was sponsored by a hundred black men,

and a lot of their programming was extremely rigid. But it was also it was kind of like like institutionalization of black men. Like they came out of the classroom, they had to walk to the right, they had to stay in a single foul line. To me, it looked like prison, but it was. It was trying to teach them structure. And one thing I noticed that there was not a lot of black men involved with their mental health.

They brought black men in for athletics. They tried to bring in some teachers and some science teachers to give them the academic aspect, but when they came to mental health, it was all women. It was not a lot of black And I said to myself, you know, most of these kids want to talk to someone who can relate

to them. They'll talk. They'll skip the therapists and come to the gym because that's what me and my brother is and they'll be like, yo, this is what I'm going through, and they'll be vulnerable and they're open up, and I a least I have have to say to myself, how come there aren't more black therapists I wanted to give you. I want to give your flowers now while you're here, because I follow you on Instagram. A lot of the stuff that you do. I think it's so

far ahead of its time. It won't be recognized now, probably won't even be recognized five years from now. But you stay on this path, later on, they're gonna be looking back and being like, yo, this brother was a genius because he was doing this when no one else was doing this. And I think a lot of people are first taken back because like number one, you don't look like your typical therapists when you come and when I when I watch your videos, I'm not thinking this

is a therapist talking to me. I'm thinking this is care, this is so when you speak from the right, what's what's the message. So I'm telling you, bro, when this, when this thing is all said and done, years from now, people are gonna say, remember that guy here, what he started. It's gonna become the norm because I can see how you change your lives in our group sessions. Your videos get passed around a lot in my my group chats with my boys, especially the ones who just got married

and have kids. They'll send it to They'll send it and be like, this dude here is speaking my life right now on the Instagram, Bro. Because what you're doing is you're normalizing um black emotional awareness for man and emotional maturity. And I want to say, I appreciate you, bro, and thank you and keep going no matter what you have to keep going and doing it. Bro. You have no idea how many people you affecting. Bro, Seriously, that's amazing.

I appreciate that. I think I don't have people who sometimes ask me in the interview, what do you want to do with this content? You got listeners right now like who is this dude? Man? But like it's it's people listen to the content and I don't know, man, just when they when I see him in personal love be crazy and it lets me know that people are getting value. But when they asked me, I don't have a grand scheme. I just want people to have a

resource with black men. The conversation with therapy. Everybody always asked me, why don't black men go to therapy? For one, I don't think that's true, But why why don't black men go to therapy? Why don't black men responding to therapy? And it's like, you gotta understand black man's relationship with therapy. When it's introduced, it's usually it's gonna be by a woman in your life nine times out of ten. And it may come across is what is go fix something

that is wrong with you? What is wrong with you? Go see this person to confirm all the things that I'm already implying is wrong with you. Who wants to do that? So I didn't look at it like that. You're absolutely right, And it is usually coming from a woman. Yes, the woman's dragging you to therapy with to confirm that she's right about the things that you're dealing with. It has this much of a viewpoint or but it's affecting her this much. So it's it's complicated and I just

want to be a hug in a source. So as long as I'm giving you man care. It's funny because you said people are probably listening like, who is this dude? I actually put up a poll on our Instagram page for the podcast and I said, you know what, guys, we want to know who do you want us to to to interview? Who do you want to be a guest on the show? Give me some topics. We had

a ton of people saying care games. So you may think that people are out there not recognizing your work and seeing what you're doing, but we had a ton of people and this is before we already had you already, Yeah, we hadn't. We had you on the calendar for a while. The biggest thing is we wanted to We wanted to have you and your wife in to do an in person because I hate doing zooms. I feel like the one person. But after a while it was like, man, we got to stop the laying and get this brother

on here. Because I tell you, bro, if I could just show you my d M s about how many men are hurting and dealing with emotional awareness, and I wish it was a larger platform, you know, and most men run to, like what you said, the freight train of what they're used to seeing. I don't feel comfortable with what's happening inside of me, so let me just go emulate someone who looks masculine. Man, Bro, you know how that is when they try to do that, and

that don't make you feel no better? Now, you like what's next? Like, you know, I'm not really a man if I feel uncomfortable in this space. So, Bro, I I hope, I hope and pray that your platform continues to I'm not gonna hope. It's gonna grow, Bro, It's gonna and it's gonna be. It's gonna become the norm. I got four boys. You know how much me and my boys talk about We talk about emotional maturity and controlling awareness all the time, all the time. Sports. That's

all we ever talk about. Bro, that's that's so smarter. I'll give your flowers to y'all leagual parents. I don't a lot of things, and a lot of times people think that you're a good parent because of what you do for your kids. Like the house that y'all live in, Like it's nice, but that don't make you pass, you know, right? No, absolutely, let me tell you about what the hell they just broke over there? What did they break? They broke something on the event to the floor. Kids gonna crash this

house up and mash it up. But it's just a place. It's just a place. But it's it's yes intentionality that you're putting a parent there in the fourth thought, in the way that y'all work together. And I can tell about how transparent you all are about your marriage. I can only imagine what it looks like on the in side. That's a beautiful space for people to grow in. That is a oh. I have so many clients. I wish they could grow in a space like that. Fertiles saw you.

They're just making an awesome human beings. So y'all are doing an incredible job. Man, We appreciate that. But I do have one I have one more question before we let you go, because we running out of time. So one thing is that the intentionality people are noticing. We have four boys. I'm teaching my boys to be emotionally aware so they can be good life partners as well as being good human beings if they choose to be married. They may grow up and say I don't want to

be married. That's on them because marriage isn't for everyone. But how how is it for you as a dad teaching that intentionality to your daughters. I know what it's like to teach a boy. And we talked about privilege, right, male privilege. I talked to my sons about male privilege and understanding what women have to go through. Um, we always talk about protecting the queen. And Jackson is ten years old now and he has a little girl that the two of them are interested in each other, and

he brought her something for Valentine's Day. Cadeine made sure he went to them all and did the right things and was very respectful. But we always say we hope that people are taking the same intentionality with their daughters, because my sons are gonna be looking to spend life with someone's daughter. How is it trying to teach that

intentionality to a young black girl? Damn, that's good question. Um, it's it's it's it's I think it's more challenging for me because I just didn't have anything outside of my male perspective for a long time, so I was looking at her as a girl through a male's perspective, and

that was really hard to take off. Um, and then I started noticing our going stores and I see, you know, the boys shirt say scientists or a builder or something strong, and the girls don't say fashiony stuff, you know, like right right right, right, right right right. So for me, I think I'm I'm lifting from another side. It's it's it's fun getting to see her interact with the world and have the little lessons that I teach her, But it's also terrifying because I was a boy. I know

those conversations look like when nobody's around. And I also know that if you're a boy or a man who was critically unaware of self, you can hurt a lot of people would never see it as damage. So it's challenges for me because I feel like I'm giving my six year with the keys. You know what I'm saying, Yeah, you're a bomb driving, But it's the other people out on the road that we got worried, right That is parenthood and the nutshell, I'm always worried about everybody else.

We Oh my gosh, that what you just said, that was that was that was a message. That was a message because we we talked about this all the time. I'm working my hardest to make the best human possible, to make the best decisions, But in my heart, I'm still concerned about all the billions of people in the world. You know what I'm saying that might hurt my children exactly.

Like we joked, We joked about it, but I lokey might be a little bit serious about Like I understand why people have arranged marriages, for example, like cultures do it because it's just like you can just foresee sometimes, like you know, there's a great family with that's raising a great person, and you have another great family raising a great person. They're coming from great stock. It's like, let's get these two people together. You know. You know

it's funny. He said something that when you when you live in a place of male privilege, you can walk around hurting people not realizing that you're doing damage. Right, And I had told one of my boys who had a daughter. I said, listen, if I had a girl, I probably would be more in line with doing an arranged marriage because I want to know the parents and know that they raised an emotionally aware son that's gonna

take care of my daughter. Because I fear. I would fear that somebody's son would do damage to my daughter because of male privilege. And I think that what what you just said, that that's almost my my moment of truth. Like we as people have to be aware that if you are raising boys, that male privilege can do damage to other people without them knowing. And if you're raising daughters, you have to be aware that they can be damaged

by someone who doesn't know they're doing damage. So let's work on on working that problem out as opposed to pointing the finger and blaming. Let's get to the root of it, no doubt. And men have to be men, the boys too, because it's cute when you're ten year old son has a girl he likes. But on the other side, oh, attend your old boy brought you some flowers. Let me go get my gun, you know, and like, what are you doing? Because I'll be that mom. But it shows the lack of grace that even men have

other men. So it's that's true. You know, you can't control that boy that can harm her, but you can have a conversation with you know, you can. Don't wait, come inside and talk to me for a minute and get to get to see who he is as a young man, as a human being, you know, see if you can give him a little bit encouragement. You don't know what he got going on at home, but what his deafences are. Uh So, it's it's a lot there,

it's a lot. I think it's also to just having that openness as parents now, Like I think about the way I was raised to it's like, you know, my mom and dad weren't trying to hear nothing about me bringing no boy, no how nowhere you know, we're married, and they still be like, I don't know about this

guy over here. But just having that openness and not just being so quick to be like no, no, no. I think having those conversations now, even if we know with something innocent and they tend you know what I mean, But even when they're coming to you know, for problem, when he's sixteen and seventeen, I would appreciate the family that wants to know who my son is making that introduction instead of just you know, oh, let me go get uncle such and such and such and such to

intimidate him so he feels like he can't even be himself in this space, you know. So look at that perspective about listening up, getting my little Joe back after the kids and sucked me dry. Lord, can't forget the points. Can't forget the points. Um, So here, I know you've got a lot going on with the with the baby, with the babies on the other side. Um, do you have a couple more minutes to join us for listening letters or do you gotta dip? Yeah, we got two

quick listening letters. Yeah, yeah, we go, we go cheek, we go chee. All right, cool, so let's um take a quick break. We're gonna pay some bills and come back to have care give his two cents with a listening letters. So you're gonna have a totalist six cents. Okay, six of them. We'll be back. All right, We're back listening letter time. We're gonna dive right in. I'm gonna

get into the first one. We'll go ahead and read that, and then here, since you're our special guest today, you can give your um, your perspective or some advice to our writer in today. UM, love you guys and listen to you all the time. What do you do when your husband is constantly pissing you off? I'm always upset at my husband for petty things, and I can't let go, and we'll always go days without talking to him. I just can't let it go, and we'll be angry for days,

which I think is toxic. Ya think how do you deal with petty arguments? So this falls under one of the four horsemen of behaviors. UM. This one is called stonewalling. Stonewalling is when you intentionally wall yourself from a person verbally, UM emotionally, however, you just create space between you and that person with silence, with distance. Uh. One thing that you can do. One other times, when I won't give

you advice, I'll tell you what I see. When couples come in and they have this problem a lot, it usually comes from one party, usually the most disturbed party, not explaining. Uh. There their tips in a way one that their partner can understand, uh, in a way that doesn't make them feel accused or blame more minimized. And too,

they don't really explain it as well as they think. Uh. Example, if you're a teacher, because that's you're teaching people how to treat you, you're teaching your husband what you're wanting. What sets you when you're a teacher, your student doesn't get the message. Sometimes this is hard for people to take, but sometimes you have to explain it to day. It's the teacher's job to change the message, to make sure the student is picking it up the way they're putting

it down. If you can recognize that it's petty, I think that's awesome. That means you recognize as a conflict you should be doing and what you're actually doing. Uh. Number one, I would say I'd recommend therapy, individual therapy. I'm not even gonna recommend complish individual because that's a problem that you have beyond your husband. He's just in front of you, and um, I recommen therapy. And to uh start writing down, journal right down all the things

he does to piss you off. Write them down, Write them down free form, just for like an hour, sit down with coffee. Just write them down, write them down, and let's start to look at them and see if they have any similarities, see if there any consist You can see these things and they ask yourself, what about this thing that he does upsets me the most? Is it the way it makes me feel? Is it the way I think he looks at me? Does it say something about that. Do I not feel loved? Doing I

feel supported? Try to get to the bottom of the way you feel. That's pretty good, because I'm wondering when she said he just pisces her off. Is it something simple and petty, like I don't like the way this nig is chewing today. He's making too much noise chewing or is it actually like very personally that's how you be.

She cares, she's a she's a people watcher, and every time I eat, she just real quiet, her eyes get big, and she's just be looking at me like you over person to talk to because I'm people watch it too, and I hate people chewing. Man, Thank you? How am I supposed to get the food down? You want me to deep throat the food? Pause like I gotta chew that motherfucker first and then swallow it like a goose.

That's what she wants. She wants to take a bite. Yeah, but I also need you to be like Edward the Cow when at the same time, you know, I'm we're in the movies, I'm eating nachos, and I'm like, I'm doing everything she wants me to do. I'm wrapping my lips around the whole chip, but the chip crunches because it's a nacho. Every time I bite down, I hear her go. I'm like, what do you do? Do you lick your nacho to make it soft first before you chew it? Like, what do you do to your nacho?

Certain foods that need to be exempt from movie theaters? Nachos is one of them. Like, just don't do it, but I love them with the llapeno she gets. She gets nachos every time I know how to chew it. Yo, you cheating? Me would loud, but I just don't be annoyed by petty here. This is this is my life, bro, this is my life here, this is Come on, buy one of these good old days. You get living color

all right on its number two. I think that was some pretty sound advice, though, right, I'm not going after after he give them advice. I'm not going after you. I'm saying, you can read the second you want me to read the second one the second. We're splittings today, Dear Codeine and de Vo, y'all are true inspirations. Thank you so much. I pray that me and my man can get as far as y'all are to keep working y'all A be further. We are still fresh, just making

a year. Although we knew each other over five years. When we officially got together, we automatically clicked. Things happened so quickly. Now we live with each other and we have a new born. I was already two kids in when he came in the picture, so now he's also considering them his kids as well. That's amazing. I know this sounds good and sounds like no reason for me to write, y'all, But now I will address the reason for me writing, y'all. We both grew up different, so

he has his ways. He sees and does things, and he catches a big attitude when these things, when things are not done the way he wants them, when it's not even necessary to have one. He also has this ego where he thinks he's better than people, and he does it to me in arguments. He says he's not saying it to hurt me, but to help me. He's the only person to say what he is saying to me, so I look at it as it's his issue. He is a great loyal guy and we have a good connection.

His temperament is his biggest flaw and I blame it on his childhood. He doesn't know how to use his words when he's angry, and it pisces me off. How can I help him express himself without so much anger and hurtfulness, so without greater context into their relationship. That's really hard at that set because she said a lot, thank you for that, but I'm sure there's a lot that wasn't said as well, just because you can't squish

the whole relationship into an email. Um, I don't know a viable way to get through to someone who has childhood trauma that impacts their functioning in a relationship that severely without therapy, and I don't know another intervention. Maybe the closest would be a very close group of friends to have an intervention with him, but they would have to see the problem the same way she does for

it to be solved to her satisfactions. That wouldn't work. Um, I'm gonna stick with therapy, I think in that's hard to get someone to go to therapy. I'm sure there will be a reluctance. My best advice would be one of the one of the best ways to get someone go to therapy is to go to therapy. Yourself to start therapy, go to the sessions and have that and just let it be a thing in casual conversation, let them, let them you could bring up the things you've come across,

your aha mo moments. They'll see the change in you. That's one of the biggest kindles to have another person go to individual therapy is for them to see the change in you. I'm sure you expected like a quick fixed answer. There's no quick fix in that situation. You don't grow through child childhood trauma if you don't address it, you just grow around it, right, I mean, no, this

is exactly what we talked about. We get a lot of these listener letters and the first thing we say is all the time like, dang, I wish I had more context. I don't know how to help you. Of course, if I'm only hearing one perspective, um, it would be better if couples created or drafted an email together so we could understand both perspectives. But typically is one person and a lot of times it's us trying to guess and say, well, what came first to chicken over the egg?

You know, like how did this start? So I'm not I actually appreciate that answer because it's a tangible answer. There's no abstract thought of what if it's here? Mama, you want to see change with him, how about going to therapy so he can recognize the changing you and hopefully that will help him. I actually like that idea. Yeah, definitely, I think that's dope. Care you won't come back and talk to us. We had a couple more seasons to do. We also got the live show, the live show, Live

show to sum of y'all, y'all heard it first? Where you based that again? I forget what'd you say where you based? I'm in d C, but I moved around. So, oh yeah, we're doing a live show in DC. We're gonna do a d shown. You're definitely gonna have We definitely gonna have you on a live show in DC. That gains I love it, I love it. I love it. Well, brother, We thank you for your time. We don't want to

hold you up anymore. I know you've got them girls waiting for you on that you know behind the zoom um. But we're so happy that we had a chance to chat with you today. And just I was very I think I gained a lot, just listening to you guys talk. This is almost like a guy session that I kind of had, you know again on So I appreciate you being here, taking the time to chat with us. I know our viewers and our listeners are going to be super excited to hear that we got Mr care Gains. Yeah.

I love it, Thank you, thank you me? Uh well, how do you say it? A long time listen to first time called that love of pod. You're do an amazing job. I love it For people who may not know who you are. Y'all better get on it, okay because you're late. I tell them where they can find you. Your handles, all your all your things. You got going on for sure, so you can find me on Twitter, Instagram. And I don't really do TikTok. Let's just do Twitter

and Instagram. At Care games r gains some family content, a lot of mental health content, taking big perspectives and making them work for you. Stop by with love to Happy. It's the dope community. Bro. I'm gonna tell you this. I love you, no pause, black man, the black man Bro. I love you man. I love you too, man, I love you too, and I love the both of y'all and everything, y'all represent people. I was like, oh man, you need to meet the vow Alice. I'm like, I

already know them. Tell them this is what we do. I love it. Give my love to the girls, and no, Mammy, we'd love to have y'all too, maybe back for a couple of situations. Definitely, definitely we both out of postpartum woods. Yeah, yeah, she would love that. We will both love that conversation. All right, y'all. If you want to be featured as one of our listener letters you want to do, email us at dead Advice at gmail dot com. That's d E A d A S s A d V I c E because says I always leave off the E

because I say see at gmail dot com. That was a great conversation. Sidebar. I was just sitting back here just watching the tool, y'all, like this is great. I almost feel like I was a fly on the wall on the Men's episode almost, you know what I mean, Because it's going on here is like a wealth of knowledge sharing his dope. Um. He has a great I can feel the rapper come out of him when he starts to talk because he's he's also a performer, so

he's engaging, yes, and it's conviction. He's super intelligent. He doesn't waste any words, which is great when you have something a guest on. But my moment of truth is this, as a man, understanding your privilege in the world and understanding that under everything comes down to perspectives will allow you to be a lot more emotionally mature because then you can sit down and try to listen to what people are saying and just understanding where they're coming from

on their side as opposed to being so defensive. And it's difficult for black men because when you say privilege, black men often say, I have not been privileged in America, which is true, I have not been privileged in the world. But when you're speaking to your spouse, you're significant other, who's a woman, you have to understand that when it comes to males and females, males have been walking around with a ton of privilege regardless of whatever race or

ethnicity you you see yourself as. So I think that all of us as men need to start understanding and accepting that when we walk. When we talk about emotional maturity, I love that and um and talking about emotional maturity and being a black woman who loves on a black man and who is raising black men, UM, black boys who will be black men. UM. I want to continue to encourage black women to be the safe space for men to be able to open up and to express

how they feel. And I know I've in the past had mentioned sometimes like, oh, you're telling me how you feel. It's like you're bitching and moaning, But it's not necessarily a bit or a moan. Is that you're actually opening up to me. And I should appreciate and we should appreciate when our men are attempting to open up and say how they feel, not making them feel um less than, or not making them feel as if they're inadequate, or not making them feel that they cannot open up, because

that's what we've been begging for for so long. So embracing that when our men are deciding to open up to us, to let them know, let us know how they feel. All right, I'm talking to my baby. I love you all right, sounds good, y'all? All right? I felt like my I came to eat for this episode.

I feel full. I feel full, all right. UM. Be sure to follow us on social media, y'all, um Kire told you where to find him, but you can find us dead as the Podcast on Instagram and all the things um Cadene I am and I am devout And if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, be sure to rate, review and subscribe. Dead Ass is a production of I Heart Media podcast Network and is produced by The Noor Opinion and Triple Follow the podcast on social media at dead as the Podcasts and never miss a Thing