The Self-Tape Incident

Niggas still be beefing.

Dead ass, But what happens when the beef came from such a great place?

Good ass on both sides. Hey, I'm Kadeen and I'm Devout, and we're the Ellis's.

You may know us from posting funny videos.

With our voice and reading each other publicly as a form of therapy.

Wait, I make you need therby most days. Wow.

Oh, and one more important thing to mention, we're married.

Yes, sir, we are.

We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of li's most taboo topics.

Things most folks don't want to talk about.

Through the lens of a millennial married couple. Dead ass is a term that we say every day. So when we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts one hundred the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. We about to take philosof to our whole new level.

Dead ass starts right now.

Shoot, this is three days ago, three days ago.

Normally, deval I was like, I'm gonna take you way back back in the time two thousand and six.

Ye, now this is like three days ago.

It's three days ago.

Just the heads up, Kadeen and I, Well, I have a new agent now and a new manager for my theatrical So I've been focused really on leaning into my creative side and being a thespian, like I'm really taking that part of my career seriously. So I hired a new agent, hired a new manager, got my first set of auditions the first week of the year, so I'm super excited. Got my stuff, got my shirt, got everything on.

Help us with the dances that we have going on for the tour. So I'm in a mold.

I'm getting ready to go downstairs and then boom, so.

Deval at this point, now, unbeknownst to him, I ordered some equipment that I reached out to.

His friend Cheeto, who plays Gary on the show.

Says to shout out to Cheeto anytime we'd see Cheeto posting self tapes or showing a boomerang on Instagram of him doing a self tape. Devals like, man, his backdrop looks good, like his setup looks really good. And typically we just filmed these in the theater. But Davao seemed to really make a comment about every time Cheeto had these self tapes that he was doing.

So I hit up Cheeto sometime.

In November December of last year and I said, hey, bro, I want to get Deval a new revamped, you know, look for his audition tapes, his self tape, So can you just send me like everything that you've purchased for your setup. I want to surprise him with it as a little something I do for him at the top of the year. So Cheeto sent me all of the links. I ordered everything on Amazon, and I wanted to surprise the vow with this prior to his audition because I felt like, you know this twenty twenty.

Four, it's a new year, he has a new agent.

I just kind of feel this energy around him just booking and just really people getting to see him being the leading male that I know he is. So I wanted to give this to him as a nice gesture because the val has also said that he's felt like in the past I don't do things to make him feel love and appreciate it, like little things. So that's an effort that I said I was going to try to make moving forward to just show him little ways I've been thinking about him, and this was one of them.

So de Val comes out of the room prepared to do his audition.

He's about to go downstairs and I stop him with Matt and I'm like, hey, babe, I just wanted to show you something that I got for you, a little surprise. And I told him how much you know, I was just using it as a moment to give him his flowers and just say how much I believe in him. And this is a new year and this is his breakthrough year and I want the world to figure out what I already know that you are a star.

And Devou then says thanks.

Said also all the stuff in the boxes to hear so cool, gave her a hug, gave her a kid So I said thanks. So I'm gonna take this downstairs. And then Kay says, are you being an asshole? And I'm like, huh, Like, how am I being an asshole? And She's just like no, I just feel like you're being an asshole. You like you just so I'm like, Matt, am I being an asshole? And Matt is like, hey, listen, I'm just here to capture content. I don't know what so then we go downstairs.

That was kind of Matt did look at me like because I think he genuinely saw like, Okay, it was a moment. It was awkward, and I think it was awkward because you just say, we.

Can tell the story, and then we can dissect the story. We just tell the story. So the end of the story is Kadeen called me an asshole. Yes, and then we walked downstairs. When we come back, we're gonna dissect how everything happened. Okay, but before we come back, before we come back, we got karaoke.

Let me see if you know this song, Uncle Paul, he commissioned. You know what it is. She's a Leo des Narrow.

Charlie Baltimore, Iceberg, Slim, the most shady Frankie, Baby, you what's beef? Beef is when you need you get to go to sleep. Beef is when your moms ain't safe, U been in the streets. Beef is when I see you guaranteed to be here, I see you one more Time's beef. That's so now he called me an asshole. We got beef.

We got beef, y'all.

When we come back, we're gonna we're gonna dissect the beef and talk about what went wrong.

Let me tell you how we made it into filaming your wagoo wago.

We're back.

We're back and run to take back.

So we don't even gotta tell y'all what we were about to discuss the y'all, So matter of fact, we're gonna put this into dead ass podcast.

Court DNN Boom.

Deval stepped out of the room ready for an audition, not sure what the surprise was. Boom, Kadeen stepped to Devo with a surprise he got. Deval does not seem happy enough. Kadeen calls the vow an Assholeval.

Continues to ensue with asshole activity by taking all of the contents in the box, fumbling down the steps, opening them quickly and expeditiously, trying to set everything up in one clean, sweet potion.

And he failed.

So let's discuss this, okay, bro, let's discuss this. Number One, name calling is never.

Acceptable, that's a fact. Will admit that.

Never acceptable, but admit that when somebody is gonna call somebody else the name, we know who the culprit is.

Kadeen is the queen name caller.

I don't be calling we don't do name calling. We don't.

We don't.

But in that moment, I was like it was getting the record. Let the record show asshole activity.

The first time I express myself my true feelings, Kadeen said, I sounded like a bit.

So now I.

Didn't express myself enough with gratitude, and now I'm an asshole.

I just want to be clear. But I just want that.

I want because in dead ass podcast court, I want to submit these into evidence. Submit I got received, I got a whole foul on you.

Well, let me grant emotion for pain and suffering.

Pain and suffering. Well, what did I do.

Because you hurt my feelings?

De val when I was trying to do a nice gesture for you, and you literally were like, okay, h let me patch you on the head like I'm a dog, or like give me that church hug, thank you, and then go on about it. But you didn't even like sit in the moment with me for a little bit to be like wow, like Kadine, I can really this is great, Like this is somewhere I can really elevate my auditions. You just really like brushed me off and you were dismissive. Now, maybe not quite asshole, but dismissive.

Now.

In my defense, and you know this, yes, I've been preparing for these auditions for three.

Days, Yes, three days.

Brian had just gotten into the house to help us with something else. I asked him to do one audition and then the second one came in. So it wasn't that I was just trying to brush her off. It was more like, let me be cognizant of everyone's time and be considerate because it was already eight pm. Brian had got here eight pm in the night. He also has to drive back to Nova Scotia where he lives,

I said, thank you.

This is it was like a headlock. It was I'm not gonna lie, it was like a headlock. But I kissed you on the four and I was said, baby, this is very, very thoughtful. It's all the stuff in the box.

This is it? Okay? Cool?

Now can we go downstairs. That's what I did. Now, I will admit that wasn't the same thing that I typically do when I have time. No, I typically throw you in the air, twirl you around, tell you how great you are, swim through the floor, announce to the whole world how amazing my wife is.

I didn't get a chance to do that this time. I'm sorry. I rest my case.

Objective objection not objective? God, come on, man, how you gonna be in dead ass podcast? You don't even know the words objection, objection, strike.

To motion the strike. First of all, you're.

Just saying all the stuff you see on the practice.

Law in order.

It's for you too much. I, in that moment, wasn't wasn't wanting you to give me. In turn, all of my flowers and make me feel good about doing something for you. I just genuinely wanted you to feel good that something was done for you. So it really like I wasn't looking for you to, you know, praise me in that moment and be like, oh my god, couldn't you hear the best wife ever? Because you thought of this.

But since I wanted to kind of capture.

Everything and we were doing a Patreon episode all in one, I kind of felt like that was the perfect time to do everything and just make it fluid. We can capture everything to that one episode and you know, I got you. That was my mindset. But was it poor timing on my part? Probably because I didn't even think about you being in that mode for auditioning. Right, So I apologize for calling you an asshole? Do you accept my apologies?

Yeah?

I accept. I accepted your apologist now, and here's the truth you said. I then continued in asshole activities after she caught me an asshole. I felt bad because I was kind of like, what did I do wrong? So she was like, you can leave it here. It's like no, no, no, no, no, let's use it. So I'm grabbing all the stuff to take downstairs because I'm trying to prove to her like

So we're gonna use it now.

But there's a way to do it, Like he was like pretty much grabbing everything, because even Brian when you came downstairs, Brian was like, yo, I just looked over and saw de VAO's eyes looking at the floor like he was on a mission. I was like, yeah, that's because you called me an asshole, right, and that was the asshole activity. You weren't coming downstairs like damn be like, KY set this up for me. I know that you're here waiting my bad like she got me this setup.

It's not full, no, but it was. I'm watching it and it's on the end of spilling because you keep clicking.

Your leg, do do you?

But you were down this stairs like on a mission to get the set up done, so I need you to use.

It that moment.

But let's ask the people what's asshole activity? Calling someone an asshole because they don't respond the way you want them to respond, or then trying to respond the way they want you to respond after the fact, one seems a little bit more assholest than the other.

And it's not me. I'm just being honest, like I really did do nothing to you. I didn't do anything to you.

So I did say after the fact that maybe asshole wasn't the right word, But you were dismissive in that moment.

So in my defense, I will say I don't think I was dismissive because I wasn't even really paying attention. It'd be different if I was paying attention and I was just like, fuck this gift.

I really wasn't. I was unaware.

I was a loof, and I don't think that's any better, But I don't think it was dismissive. I was a loof, like I was focusing while you were saying the things you were saying. I was focusing on being Zach Cobb and being Quentin like you was just like, babe, I just this, and I'm going through lines over my head.

And the minute you were done, I was just like.

I did.

I didn't hear what you were saying.

I was, and so it's fair to say that you weren't paying attention to what I was not paying attention, And because of that, it made me feel like you were detached and disconnected and being in that moment asshole. But you were dismissive, I felt right, and that was where the disconnect came in.

Absolutely absolut I agree, that's where the disconnect came in.

I just feel like calling someone the name and then being upset about how they respond about you calling them a name.

It's not an adult like behavior.

I didn't know you were upset because I called you asshole. I thought you were just upset because I was like breaking your train of thought when it came you were upset.

Because I was definitely upset that you called me an asshole. Why would I be happy what you calling me an asshole? Especially when I don't think I'm being an asshole? And then also, no one wants to be called a name.

You know what I'm saying.

But it's like I really didn't understand in the moment because I didn't know what was happening. I didn't know how I was being an asshole. I legitimately didn't know how you perceived it. It was kind of like you.

And here's the truth.

Remember I was looking for the light, yes, and I was like, babe, I was like, where's a tripod?

Babe, where's a tripod?

So I thought you had a tripod in there, And at first I was like, why are we filming you giving me a tripod you asked me for. I asked for a tripod. I didn't know what was happening. I noticed it was a whole thing you.

Had thought of.

It was a surprise going wrong.

And I'll say I was I was aloof to that. I could have been, yeah, I could have been more aware. But it's like after that, I was really trying to correct it because I was like, so, what did I do? Like, I didn't know? I was like, and then I was concerned. I was like, is it something I do to her all the time? And she's she hasn't told me, And now this is destroyed.

This is what happens when two people who like, are invested and love each other, Yeah, are really like internally trying to figure out what's going on well and then also trying to like make sure the other person's okay at the same time simultaneously. And I didn't read it that way. I guess the way I received it was okay.

Saying in that moment.

But I just felt like the way that you went about then trying to now put the light together and like you were kind of fumbling over everything. You weren't even taking care of that moment to say, Okay, let's try to figure this out real quick, or really just decide do I want to tackle this right now or do I want to continue to focus on my audition. It just felt that you were just adding fuel to the fire in that moment by being all erratic about how you were trying to put things together.

I'm going to be honest, I didn't know what to do because I thought I was doing what I wanted to do, and I got called an asshole for it. So now it's like, well, let me just do what she wants me to do, and now you're telling me, well, you don't have to do it. It was kind of like you called me an asshole for not doing what you want or not responding the way you want me to respond. But now I think I'm trying to respond and I was confused. I was like, what did I do?

What did I do?

And that's why I asked Matt, And ultimately I asked Matt to run the tape back, which is a good thing about having filmed hey. And then once I watched it, I was like, man, like, I didn't realize you had said all of those things. And I saiday am, I bad, Like I don't want you to feel bad, but I see how I can see how you felt dismissed. Right, So I apologized and that time after watching the tape, and.

It's the good thing. Sometimes it's good to have tape back of yourself.

I wasn't gonna say that.

Imagine if people argued or had discussions in debates with tape.

You wouldn't want that.

Why wouldn't I want that?

Trust me, you would not want that. You don't you don't you really want to know why you wouldn't want that?

All I said, I didn't say anything about me. I said, imagine if people had arguments like you sound triggered because you're you're putting it on me. I didn't say anything. I just said, imagine if people had arguments with.

Tape, and I'm saying you wouldn't want that.

Why is it about me? What about people? What about in general?

Well?

Why are you making it so personal?

Because we talking about us? We are?

Are we not literally talking about us? Are we not literally talking about us? Dead ass podcast Court Matt Josh Tripple? Are we not talking about us?

Who are we talking to? I'm just saying, in general, wouldn't it be a talking to people about us tapes? Okay, go ahead to Beth.

We are talking to people. We are talking to the people about us, right right? My is you don't want the tape to be there all the time.

I didn't say all the time. I'm just saying to imagine if there were, and if there were what.

That cozy part, there's a crazy part.

You keep saying how I triggered? I am right. You called me an asshole the other day.

Right, All I said was you don't want that, You wouldn't want the tape and look at how triggered you got. That's my point about the tape. That's my point about the tape. Some people can't deal with accountability. Can't deal with seeing theyself, and that's my point.

But we both got a chance to see ourselves. I don't have a problem with accountability. I have in the past, but I don't have a problem with the accountability now do I really?

Oh? Now we sit and tea over here, y'all, y'all in the middle of it Ellis debate.

This is why we're bringing it to that podcast.

I love it.

I don't have a problem with the accountability, especially at my big age. I think we've gotten past all of that. But I'm saying if people did have the opportunity to run a tape back the same way we did, they probably can then say, damn, I didn't even realize I came across like that, Or I don't even realize I said that on shit in the heat of the moment, moment in the debate, or you know, having emotions flearing, I didn't realize I said that, or I delivered it

Copy I said what I said because between the two of us, and since we're debating between the two of us. One of us is more logic driven and one of us is more emotion driven. The more stopped me when I'm telling a lie, The more logic driven person is who you right, Typically I said, more logically driven person. I'm not always logically driven, right. But with that being said, I typically do things based on fat, based on things that happened.

You go based on emotion.

Typically, when we argue, your thing is deval, I didn't say it like that. And if I had a camera to show you how many times you said things based on the way you responded with your emotion, you'd be like, I didn't know that I said it like that. I've agree and that's why I said, but that's why I said. You wouldn't want to see that that you that would trigger you all the time. If every time we got to an argument I said stop play the tape, you would.

Be like, oh, would it trigger me? Or wouldn't allow me to say?

Damn Kitdeen like, maybe you need to make an adjustment because you've been doing this and IV I was telling you, And clearly, if there's only two people in the room during an argument, you all I can.

Rely on is what you tell me. How I said it, or how it made you feel.

I can't know what actually happened, so it would be helpful, and I would like something like that. If we did have an argument, you could play a tape back. I wouldn't mind that if you want to. You want to set a camera up every time we have a debate from now on, if you try whatever you want to do, we could try and see what it's saying. I'm not opposed to it. Well, I'm a big girl. I could do with it.

Whatever.

Whatever you want to do, whatever you want to do.

Back to the story at hand, Back to the should we go to the facts and stats? Because I don't know Trippa was able to find facts and stats out of this whole.

Debacle that happened with us the other day.

What Ultimately, I just wanted to love on my man and give him a moment, and I know you just want to deliver a great audition, and in both of our hearts, I think we're in the right place ultimately when we deciphered and broke down everything.

No, yeah, I just that's you do a lot of.

Tea sipping over here, So I'm not sure. I just wasn't sure if you.

Were I'm just sipping my tea because it's here in this tea.

Like okay, just making sure you don't want to.

You don't want me to sit my tea no more. I won't sit my tea.

No money either, Tell me what else you don't want me to do, and write down the responses you want me to have to the things you want to have.

I sitting next to you in this moment, I just want to make sure that you are okay, babe.

So when I see you sipping your tea doesn't.

Mean you need more tea.

You can't sip your tea to make sure.

It'll cause no more fights today.

I just want to make sure that you're okay. I'm fine this moment.

I'm fine.

Do you need to reaup on some tea?

No, because I don't want to accidentally sip it and cause any problems. So I'm just gonna not set my tea. I'll just be partched while I'm here, I'll be parted.

I don't want you to be parched. So Triple was able to come up with the facts and stats. Let's see what they have to say here.

The risk we haven't even finished how we we haven't even finished telling everybody how we got to a resolution.

Oh right, right.

I think I was trying to say that ultimately my heart was in the right place. You delivered a great audition, But how do we get to the audio? Yeah, tell them how we were able to hash things out after all of that. So we left you off where you fumbling and bumbling taking things out of the boxes. Me saying, Babe, you really don't have to assemble this right now. I don't want to take you out of your mindset that you're in for these characters. Brian is on the floor

And then I asked I was I was like, yo, Matt, can you, like, like seriously, can you tell me what I did? And then I asked my saying, let me just see the tape. After watching the tape, I apologized to Kay for not responding in the way that she deemed to be a acceptable in the moment and making her feel small. I apologize for that, and then I proceeded to give you a hug and then listen to you tell me what the whole purpose behind that was,

I did first. You did not apologize for calling me an asshole. First.

I apologize first for saying that I might have dismissed you. And then you apologize for calling me an asshole, and you said asshole might not have been the word.

Yes, does it matter who did what first? Because we were in there adults me.

If it don't matter to you, it doesn't matter me, okay.

Because I mean we were trying to at that point talk things out and figure out what went wrong in that moment.

So I will say I will say that I think that it is important to note that I did ask to see the tape and was willing to apologize without being prompted by anyone.

Yeah, for sure, that matters because a lot of people, when they have arguments, no one is willing.

To be first, to be first, yeah, or to be I will say on that ass podcast, And I am always willing to be first because I don't like there to be any conflict.

I want there to be resolution.

Oh yeah.

And the reason why I think that's important is because I feel like I always proclaim that I am the leader of this house. I proclaim that as the leader of the house, at most times, you have to be willing to apologize first, even if you don't think you did anything wrong. If you can find fault in what you did and may have made your partner feel a way, it is your responsibility to apologize first. I don't think it should be well, I did it last time, you

Somebody has to take the first step.

Right, and thank you for just even teaching me how to do that right, to be accountable, to have the discussions, to talk about it, to be the first to say something, because I didn't come from that, and it took a long time for me to get to the place where I am where I can just see, for example, something may be wrong with you come something completely unrelated to this topic, but I can see, okay, something's off with de Val and what do I do now, I'll be

There was clearly a beef.

Both feelings were hurt in that moment, for me calling him asshole, for me feeling like he didn't receive my surprise the way I intended for it to be received. And then it could have been a thing where we both just like in the past, we joke about it.

It in that moment maturity.

Yeah, and then Deval was able to deliver stellar Stellar auditions for two different roles, one show, one film. I'm so excited for you, ultimately, that's that's all. And you look beautiful against that background that you got.

Don't don't forget that part you got it? What why do you look at me like that?

You look beautiful against that background.

And I'm just hoping that that will bring you some good luck and some good energy as you go into it.

Will it will, because when you manifest things, things come out well.

And you work for it.

Fact, since that's the risk of miscommunication is higher with your spouse than it is with a stranger.

It's interesting.

I think that's the fact because we communicate the most, Like if that's a stranger, I don't got to talk to you, and if you say something that I don't like, I could just walk away.

Your spouse I got to see you every day.

So even if we have a miscommunication, now, I gotta see you tomorrow.

I got to see you later on in the day. There's no getting away from it.

Absolutely miscommunication can occur when one person is emotional and the other person is left to interpret those emotions.

I tend to be the more emotional one go figure.

And I tend to have to interpret these emotions and handle them with silk gloves.

Now, I'm a big girl. You don't got to do all that. No more, ask for clarity. Are you serious? I'm very serious. Do you feel like you gotta handle me with a silk glove? I'm a thug de val.

I can't even to sit my tea because if I sit my tea, then I'm gonna get it. Ques it being triggered for simple tea.

Don't talk about it. Say what it is. We hear.

I do feel like I got to handle you with silk gloves. I do.

That's a perfect situation. I'm going into something that I'm super focused on it. Because I didn't respond the way you wanted me to respond, I get called an asshole that don't seem a little crazy to you.

And then even though I get called an asshole.

I have to apologize first for you didn't open up and be like, maybe I could do it a different time. That don't seem a little crazy. Think just think about it for a minute. You know how focused I am. You know how I have to become a different character. You know, I didn't mean no harm. But still I get called an asshole, and then I still apologize first.

That don't seem crazy.

That's amazing. He wins, y'all, he wins.

No, it's not about Judge. I'm asking you a serious I'm asking you a serious question. I don't even give a fuck about the these stat facts, the stats. I'm asking you a serious question. When you sit back and think about that whole thing, you don't realize that damn Like, yeah, yeah, he just didn't you know, I didn't do it on purpose.

Of course, that's what we hashed out after the fact. I'm saying in the moment, of course I was being emotional.

But that's what I'm saying about handling. You were so gloves. I know that you're a more emotional person. Hey, And what I'm saying is is that since I know that, I have to make sure that I handle you delicately.

I understand that.

And typically in a situation like that, right, you probably wouldn't have even responded the way you responded because you just your head wasn't in the right place. Right unbeknownst to me, you probably on a day to day basis, whenever we do have a debate or a discussion or whatever you want to call it, you probably approached me with a level of delicacy that I don't even.

Know that you use's And that's what I was saying.

Okay, so that's what I'm saying.

Now that we're talking about it, I can see, all right, So maybe I do need to be handled with silk gloves and I don't even realize that. And the moment when you didn't necessarily handle me that way, that's what what happened. Yes, so that's a moment of revelation for it.

But that's what I'm saying, is like, even in a relationship, one person is more emotional than the other, if I know that.

It's my responsibility to handle you more delicately, not say, well I'm not as emotional, I'm gonna handle you how I'm handled. No, this is how you have to handle someone who's more emotional. My point is is that understanding that your partner is different and that your partner may handle things differently, requires that if you want to be in a relationship with that person, you learn how to handle that person in a way that works for both of you.

Rather than saying everything has to be split evenly. If you talk to me like this I talked, that just doesn't work. You know what I'm saying. And that's my whole point is that, like you just said, here, one person is more emotional than the other.

If we know that, then we have to be able.

To handle those things and understand that that's what our reality is, not try to change that person into a less emotional person.

I you know what I'm saying, I get it.

I mean there's tact with the way we approach each other.

You don't think that you're emotional most of the time, but there's attacked and a level of sensitivity and approach that I take when I approach you about certainly, I'm pretty and you may not even think that, you may think it's it's not. I'm pretty sure, but in my mind, I'm like, I have to approach the voalt in this way so that it doesn't sound like I'm being insensitive

Okay, got it.

Next that ask for clarity if you're not sure about the intent behind someone's words.

That's exactly what we did.

If I ran the tape back in this instant because he wasn't quite sure what, I call him an asshole and we were able.

To question about point something out to you, why you was going to be what?

You do that too? You realize that that's like a like a defense mechanism.

What's that?

If I say I have to hold you, handle you with delicate clothes because you're emotional, your response isn't like, well, that's true, I am more emotional.

You're poscious. Well, you're emotional too. Do you not realize that.

I've definitely just said that You're right, I am the emotional one.

But then your response to that is to be like, well, I do that for you too.

I'm just saying unbeknownst to the other party, we many not even know how we approach the other because we feel like they need that. Like you're saying that you don't announce me, Kadin, You're the most emotional one, So I'm going to approach you this way. I'm saying, I can agree with you because I do the same thing on my end for the sake of the discussion.

Is what I'm saying, but.

Base but based on arguments and debates.

If I say that I do this to you because you're this way, and you say I do this to you, that's in a way negating my statement by saying, well, I do the same thing for you.

I'm not negating it ilways agreeing with you.

No, but based on okay, in debates.

But I never debated other than with you. I didn't do debate team or anything like that. But you can probably educate me on it.

There's a way.

There's a way to debate, right by a debate. I forgot the exact term. But if I say a point by saying I prove that you're more emotional by handling you this way, and then you say, well, you do the same thing, what that does is negate my point because what I'm saying is I only have to do that for you.

You understand what I'm saying to me.

It's not about a point and who made the point. The fact of the matter is that we're having a discussion about the both of us. It's not a debate to see who's right or who wins right.

But there also has to be a level of accountability, and the accountability comes as is. Accountability stops, starts and stops with yes, I am this way. That's what it is, not yes I am this way. But because then you've just taken away anytime you add a butt or you say something that's not accepting accountability.

But what if you say also because I said, I also can agree with you that yes, I am the emotional one that I have to be handled with the glove that I didn't even know that you were handling me with. So I'm saying, yes, I agree to that, and I'm just like, shoot, as you say that, I don't even realize that maybe I approach you the same way with a certain level of delicacy that you don't know. So I'm not negating anything at all. I'm just agreeing with you and saying that yeah, I can see that. No,

No, I mean.

Is understanding is understanding right, And it's like trying to figure out what words work for each partner is exactly an exercise and what people are seeing us do now trying to understand what we mean by having a civil conversation that doesn't resort to any type of hostility or volatile acts. Yeah, for sure, you know, from name calling

This is literally how our debates, arguments, discussions. I don't know what you want to call it, but this is literally how it goes. Like dival and I will sit here and just do this and so back and forth, and I really genuinely try to understand where you're coming from, because I mean, I don't want to repeat the same behaviors over and over again. And if I can take a pound ability for something I've done wrong, then I'll be like, all right, well I did it wrong.

I don't profess to be perfect.

Well I've said this before and I'm just sometimes I feel like in these conversations, you'd rather defend your point

Being perceived the wrong way. You understand what I'm.

Saying, understand that.

But my response to that always is because we battle with this, you know, we have battle with this saying that you understand and you know, trying to get to the bottom of how it made the person feel. Don't you then want to understand why I might have acted a certain way, or how I might have arrived at whatever delivery or whatever I imparted on you to make you feel that way. Don't you want to know why? Or you just prefer for me to say, I understand

I guess it depends on the person. I guess it just depends on the person because there is no one way to debate, right, There's no one way that it depends on the person. So me, for example, when I gave my example, my example was I looked at the tape and I realized, like, man.

How she took it.

She might have felt dismissed. That's my fault, baby coming, that's my fault. You might even dismissed, and I didn't want you to feel like that. Boom, and I gave you a hug and apologize.

To me.

That apology feels sincere because I just recognized what I did, rather than me saying, yeah, I see how you feel, but I did it because this then it kind of negates the fact that I apologize.

Yeah, I don't see it that way.

That's why I'm saying it's a difference in on discuss That's why.

We always have an issue every debate because for me, it's the damn babe, I watch the tape, I see how you could have taken it this way.

But to be honest, in that moment, my head was just.

Really in the game and I was not even thinking about anything else other than the audition. So if it landed the wrong way, it's not because it was intentional, it's because of XYZ. Like that's the kind of explanation that I like to have because I want to know why you made me feel that way, Whereas with you, you're just like you made me feel this way and that's just it.

So you have to accept that that's at with me, I didn't do that.

I actually gave you an explanation. I told you why.

I'm just saying, we're just doing like this like exercise in terms of like how people can argue sometimes where you're saying that you don't want to hear the butt, you just want to hear it, I understand.

Absolutely, because if you're going to give me apology with me, I don't even like apologies.

The best apologies to me is changed behavior. But if you're going to give me.

An apology, give me an apology and tell me why you sorry. Don't give me an apology. Tell me why you sorry. But then they try to explain to me why I shouldn't feel the way I feel. That to me is like it's almost like a slap in the face. You know what I'm saying, Like, if I know I did something wrong to you and it made you wrong, I mean made you feel bad, I don't I don't ever in my heart of hearts want to be like, damn, babe, you feel bad.

But I think you acting.

I think you acted kind of sensitive because I did it this way, or I didn't mean to do it, or.

But you saying that is then negating someone's feelings. It's not saying, babe, I didn't intend to do it that way. Really, in my heart of hearts, what I was trying to do was this, this, that, and the third.

Then that's just saying.

I arrived at this location because of these things, not saying that you still should feel a certain kind of way about it. You still entitled to feel the way you want to feel about it, but at least give me a background or scenario of how we arrived here, so I don't think you were just frivolously out here just doing whatever, and then now my feelings are hurt and I don't know how we got there.

No, I understand it's more important for you to explain your position so that you don't want it to be taken as doing something with malice.

I get that. I get that. What I'm saying is that sometimes when I'm.

Trying to tell you how I feel and you just disregard that, and because you're more concerned with that, it makes me feel like you don't feel like you did anything wrong, gotcha, because it's.

Like I'm feeling a way.

You ask me how I feel, I tell you how I feel, and then your first response when I'm telling you how I feel is, but I did it like this, so I don't think you should feel that way.

It's like that's not I didn't ask to feel as well.

I don't say I didn't like this, so then you shouldn't feel that way at that portion. I never do I just let you know this is why I did that, and then we normally hash out how that could have made you feel. I don't try to change the way you feel. I can't do that. As a person. You're entitled to feel the way you feel, regardless of my intent. I always want to make sure that you could hear like a damn Cadie wasn't just out here willy nearly doing whatever to make me feel some kind of way, right,

I got you.

But what I'm saying is is that remember when you ask me about the tape and watching the tape. If I play the tape back and we're having a conversation or discussion about something that happens, you sometimes tend to think that you said or did things a certain way when you really didn't. For example, most of the time, I can't even get my full thought out about what I'm feeling before you cut me off and try to

You took a pause.

I'm like, if there was a tape here to show you how many times when I'm trying to tell you how I feel, where you're more interested in getting out what you think so that you can defend your point, you would realize, like, dang, that's why deval ends up getting quiet when we have the base and just say as all right, that's that's how you feel.

That's how you feel totally. You know what I'm saying. That's and that's what I'm talking about that you know what I'm saying.

I learned that I when it comes to debates, I tend to be super narrow minded with certain things. And it's just like once I get my mind fixated, just like with auditions, once I get my mind fixated on one thing, that's but you see what I'm saying.

Once I get my mind fixated on one thing.

That at one point and I completely get it, and I too, Yes, you're right. Sometimes I'm like, oh, but I want to just say something to explain if you're explaining to me how you feel, and I'm like, damn, this is the perfect moment for me to explain how I arrived there. I don't come from a debate background where I learned how to like register my points in

You know.

That's when I That's the reason why I I think you feel like I cut you off a lot, is because I don't want to forget points. That's why I joked last time I think we met and had a discussion, I was like, damn, I need to literally like make bullet points as you speak, because then when it's my time to speak back, I can't remember everything that you've said because you sometimes tend to be long winded with your explanations, the same way I know I get long winded sometimes too.

No, I feel you.

I just the biggest thing is learning to have conversations to understand, as opposed to having conversations to win and be right.

You know, you know what I'm saying that's never really our no.

That's how we've been able to make it this far, even but even for people to see.

How you practice having those discussions.

Right, what I learned today, even in this moment, was that it's more important to you that I understand why you.

Did what you did, to understand that you didn't come from malice.

You know what I'm saying, And for me, it's more important for me to just apologize to you, so you understand that I recognize your feelings, which is actually kind of perfect when you think about it.

You care about what I feel.

You know that I'm a logically driven person, so you're trying to give me reasons as to why a logical reasons as to why you did it. So I don't think you come from malice. I know you're an emotional purpose person. So I'm trying to make you feel seen by saying, you know what, babe, I understand how you feel.

It is what it is.

The problem with that is when we're constantly debating with each other. You're worried about my feelings, I'm worried about your feelings. Sometimes we walk away and neither one of us have addressed our own feelings.

And it happens a lot, and then what's left to our own devices to just self sue. Yes, yes, you're left to self soothe a lot because we're so invested in the other person.

And that makes sense, It makes perfect sense. I didn't even think of it that way, but.

I didn't think of it until I heard you talk just now, and I was like, like, once again just trying to actively listen. It really made me realize, like, oh snap, Like the reason why she gives me the explanation she gives me is because she's trying to logically get me to understand that she didn't come from malice, right, And then for me, I'm just listening to you because I want to hear like I deal with you, like I said with silk gloves, I want you in that

He's gonna want to hear what the facts are.

And that's why sometimes you say at the end of like us having an argument or discussion or whatever, like you're just like you don't even come over. You don't give me a hug you can get me kiss Like I'm like, I don't even know if that'll that will help you in that moment because you're so logically driven.

Yeah, now I get it.

It's just it's a good practice for two different people to understand and I even learned in this moment. And you know, I think it's a good time to take a break because we have to go to listening letters.

I don't even know if we're gonna get to listen to letters today. I feel like this was a whole listening let of guys we wrote.

It was a whole listen letter. This is.

Let's let's do the Valenkadeens listener letter. That's exactly what today say.

We did our own stuff for a listening letter. But we were supposed to take a break. We were, all right, so let's let's take a quick break. Let's take a quick break. Let's do one listening letter real quick. Going to get back to the moment of truth.

All right, cool, all right, and we're back.

So even though you got to listen to our long listen listening letter, we're gonna do one real quick just so we can have Oh what is this one talking about?

You have the first one or the second one?

Let's see, Well, the second one is a little short.

Yeah, second short.

We'll save that first one for another episode. How about that? Go ahead and read it? Do you mind because I'm not voice off today.

What's up? Fam?

I hope all is well with you guys and the kids. I really enjoy watching the vols A team and sisters and Kadeen. I really need you back on okkk, what we got all dka on the Patreon page. What you mean?

It's there every week? Hello, we your followers.

Missusis I've been married for less than a year now, and there have been ups and real loads and real low downs, and I'm tired, but too embarrassed to call it quits. My husband has been unstable with the job since we have been together. The house we live in. I bought the car he drives. I bought a majority of the bills I pay for. I understand hard times, but damn every time. We have had issues with infidelity, and I have been trying to forgive, but I really

And he victim out helped me out.

Girl do it.

That's a lot.

That's a lot going on somewhere.

They have kids. She said, they have kids.

Nope, but they've been married less than a year.

Now, you know what's given. It's given.

They got married and she takes care of him, and he's comfortable with that, extremely comfortable.

He's comfortable with that.

He comes, he goes, he doesn't, he pleases, he wants.

Yeah, so he gets to just get his bills paid for and live there and do what he wants.

That's what it's given to me. Wild, that's what it's given to me. That's wild. And being being concerned about being embarrassed, I mean, I know it's hard. It's hard sometimes because you do get concerned with you know, what other people will think, family and stuff like that. Trust me, I came from that. But it girl for you to be living in your own house or your own space where you're paying all the bills and doing all these things and getting cheated on simultaneously.

I think that's more embarrassing than.

Then I just about to say staying seems to be more embarrassing and actually saying like yo, I'm done, Like I'm done with this because right now it doesn't seem like she said we have kids and not take care of the kids. They got married, all right, so get unmarried, like, get a divorce, get a moment, depending on how long they've been married, and move on. Like, if you're that unhappy, there's no reason to stay, especially if you don't have kids.

And this is just not the right way to start. Like less than a year, y'all should be in like is a moment of like wedded bliss. You you know what I mean, when you just can't come down from the high of being married and now you're on a low.

Lo that's right, she said, I've been married for less than a year now. Yeah, that's tough.

Don't be embarrassed, girl, You'll be more embarrassed when the years go by and time goes on and he's still doing more of the same and you're still unhappy. So I'm never an advocate for telling people to just go ahead and call it quits and not try to work on it. But if he's shooting town, I'm counseling and won't even be receptive or something like Yeah, with that, it doesn't seem like he even has a dog in the fight.

So that's true.

The fact that he doesn't want to talk about it shoos down council means he doesn't want to work, not.

Invested girl, And one thing that you can't do is a one sided, one side of relationship on the side of marriage. So hopefully that works out for you. Sis. Yeah, this is crazy, crazy, crazy crazy. Well what an episode. I feel like we were in a real therapy session today. We was, we were, weren't we was? It's just like hashing things out on our own. So yeah, thank y'all for listening. If you want to be featured as a listener letter, be sure to email us at dead Ass Advice at gmail dot com.

That's D E A D A S S A D V I C E at gmail dot com.

All right, moment of truth time. I don't know what we're gonna do. Its gonna be the episode this.

Is, I know, my moment of truth.

Well, the description today was when two people trying to be of service to one another almost goes.

I mean that's still just a perfect example though, Like, Yeah, I've realized in listening to you speak about this argument, which really wasn't even an argument because we squashed it to try to get something done and then we talked

You understand what I'm saying.

I understand that, and thank you for that, because I feel like a lot of the times, yeah, I feel like a lot of the times you just want me to argue with your debate with you or say things the way you want it to be done, and I'm like.

It doesn't work like that.

I can't work like that, and I always feel like I end up inadequate in those discussions and debates that we have because I'm just like, man, i feel like I'm over here with debate team captain and I can't find a way to even get my footing because I have worked for so many years to try to meet you when it came to communication or when it comes to communication and how to express myself, and sometimes that puts me back.

In my shell a little bit. So thanks for that moment of truth.

It's definitely helpful.

A moment of truth for me, Well, first off, name calling is never okay, And I think the biggest overarching thing for me is trying to not let my emotions take over in the moments where I really could be logical, because a lot of times you do have great points whenever you are trying to tell me how you feel or just trying to assess a situation, you really do, like logically make sense with a lot of things, and

So all right, right, y'all.

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