The Pitting Myth

I actually think comparisons and competition is great for legacy building.

Hmmm, that's a good one.

I mean, maybe it's the former pageant girl in me, but I welcome competition with other.

Women, even as a black woman, even as a black woman.

Dead ass.

Hey, I'm Kadeen and I'm Devout, and we're the Ellis's.

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Dead ass starts right now.

This was actually earlier this year. I was a guest on the Sherry Shepherd Show. Shout out to Sherry, and I was there for Sisters with kJ Smith kJ Smith shout out kJ Smith Official aka Andy and stephen A.

Smith was also on the show, and this was.

Actually a week prior to the Super Bowl, and I remember sitting in the back and I remember Sherry asking stephen A like, Hey, what do you think.

About the Super Bowl?

About while they were talking about and said, what do you think about Rihanna performing at the halftime show?

And stephen A.

Smith said so eloquently and in his best stephen A Smith voice, she.

Ain't be I mean, she's a superstar.

And the internet went crazy. They went blistic Banana's Berserka ballistic. And when I was back there, I remember saying to myself, I don't think this is gonna go over well, but we're gonna discuss this later. I also remember thinking to myself, I don't understand what the big deal is, so let's discuss this.

Okay, bring it down karaoke time, we're taking it back. We're talking about the myth of or is it a myth or is it actually something that happens where we're putting women, particularly Black women, against each other. So I feel like we should all just be friends. And since we all should just be friends, this song came to mind. Friends may come in and friends may go, but you should know that no, I got your back. It's automatic, so never to come because I'm your sister and always

Oh, you was on the road.

That's the that's the longest karaoke we've done in a long time.

Changes and that's why you're my best friend.

You struggled in the last I know it's all right.

You see how in my pajamas.

I said first, But we both okay.

We just got off press six straight weeks, almost seven spilled into seven weeks, and I've.

Been doing press since before that because of Sisters. So I'm on nine weeks. You're on nine weeks weeks and it's not gonna stop because I guys a team went.

From Sisters to the book tour to podcast live shows, which we have for y'all mixed up in here.

We tired.

I got my Christmas pajamas on because you know, one thing that makes me happy is Christmas time, so don't judge me if you're watching the video. Here I have on Christmas pajamas and a blanket because I'm tired, and I rolled out of bed barely did my hair think.

Shout out to you know for this.

Oh weeve take soon.

It's a little stale faced, little stale today. But you know, we here, we here. I'm sitting next to my best friend.

But we here for a minute. But we do got to go and take a break.

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So we're talking today about the myth or is it not really a myth of pitting black women against each other women in general? And this is coming off of the storytime that you told about being at the Sherry Shepherd Show when Steven A. Smith was pulled through the mug or his comment about Rihanna and Beyonce.

And and just to be you know, just to be fair to to stephen A. He's paid to opine. True, he's he's paid to give his opinion and also create comparisons because in sports commentary that's one of the greatest debates is who's the greatest, who's the best?

List?

You know what I'm saying.

So every time you sit with a group of men, and this is even just being on tour recently, much of the conversation was who's the goat, Lebron, this one, that one's stats said Lebron.

You can't say who's the goat, say Lebron and not say Jordan. That's the first thing, Like, see, this is my problem. I'm I'm just yeah, but you mentioned Lebron. You have to mention Jordan Lebron or Jordan thank you, and put Jordan first.

See what I'm saying. What happens though.

I want no smoke, trust me, I don't want no stroke. Savannah's the homie. I ain't coming for your husband. I'm just saying the fact that y'all remember each other's stats, like the stats for these players and everything.

It's like that's likerd core. That's what y'all.

Do you want to know why, because if we're being honest, there is no one way to decide who is the greatest everyone. Yeah, well not everyone, right there, they are literally, especially in basketball, there are three people who qualify to be the greatest. Kareem's Michael Jordan, and it's Lebron James. Those are the three who people say qualify, right And if you ask people, depending on whatever they watched, lived in, or subscribe to, they're going to have a different answer

All of his team has four titles.

You know what I'm saying, So there's no way to definitively say who is the best.

But what I'm saying is what a favorite pastime of men is debating, is debating on who's the greatest, going through competition, you know who's better than who, pulling out the facts and the stats.

That's what y'all do.

That's what we're doing to do right, Whereas with women particularly, we're not necessarily signing up to do that. And then the question is why, so we're going to talk.

About that today, And that's that's what I don't understand, is like why when we do it to men and women often do it to men as well. For example, I think it was BT, their social team was run by a team of black women.

Put up a picture of Michael B.

Jordan and Jonathan Majors and they put fine and finer.

But who was standing where though?

Who?

They had Michael B.

Jordan at fine and they had Jonathan Majors at finer, and they put this post up And the first thing I said was, could you imagine if a social media page ran by men put up a picture of two black women and put fine and find her? They would get drugged through the mud, as if why do we have to compare and why does one have to be better than the other. But then you have a social media platform run by black women who claimed that they don't want that to happen to them doing this openly,

No, because they actually.

Did an interview recently and the interviewer was asking them in real time who was more handsome, who was more popping, who was the sexiest man. It was jokingly, but she was asking them to when they kept passing the butt, like, no, it's him, Know it's him, Know it's him.

It was all funny game.

But once again, if a man had asked two women who was more fine in that moment.

It would be a big deal.

Now, of course I understand the context of women being objectified and over sexualized. You know, it's definitely different power. So we can already put that out there that we understand the difference. But what I'm saying is in the case of stephen A, right and what he says, she's no Beyonce, and they.

Attacked stephen A. This is how I view it.

Right, whenever you compare to greats, what you do is you keep their legacy going.

Right.

For example, Rihanna hadn't made music in five years, but here we are comparing her to a woman who is known as the greatest entertainer in our time? Is that really a shot at Rihanna? Now, the way he said it, she ain't no Beyonce, people will say that, right.

There's a way to say it for sure. So that already was combative.

That is combative.

But in his defense, when they talk about Lebron James, they say, he ain't no Michael Jordan.

You know what I'm saying.

When they were comparing up and coming athletes to Lebron James, there was he ain't no Lebron James, you know what I'm saying. So it's like, I don't think they were used to how he uses those words, so they they took it out of context and made it something that it wasn't.

He wasn't saying that Rihanna isn't great in her own right.

He was just saying, you know, if we're going to have a conversation, especially about the super Bowl, one of the greatest Super Bowl performance in recent history was by Beyonce.

So I'm wondering if the real issue here is the fact that a black man was saying this about two black women, or is the real issue that black women in general are compared, Because when we compare each other amongst ourselves, it can be seen as being caddy, being petty, or just vying for maybe a man's attention or vying for the public's attention, right, Whereas when men compete, they're just seen as like, you know, this is that sex like what men do? Right?

Well, you tell me, I actually kind of want to know, because it would be hard for me to mansplain why women feel a way when they're compared.

Right.

I don't get it because I feel like if I were compared to someone who's great in the field that I'm doing in, my first thing would be like, dang, you're comparing me to somebody who is.

Right to even be in that arena or to be in that discussion, right for example, when we went to Barnes and Nobles bookstore, I forget what state we were in for the book tour. They said, oh, you know, you guys are New York Times bestsellers. You're going to go on this wall here at the front of the store with Michelle Obama's book, with Chris Harry's book, and I forget there was one more book that was another New York Times bestseller book.

I forgot the other one. But it's the fact that who is it.

Oh, Pamela Anderson, That's who it was, Thank you, Josh. And I'm like, shoot, just to be in that conversation and that group of people, I'm like, we're in good company, you know. So that to me was just like to be in that discussion already. So I can understand that mindset. So let's jump to the run of show. Men who compete are seen as beasts, but when women compete, their behavior is diminished as being caddie petty or simply vine

So is that right?

And can women really be competitive without being accused of being pitted against one another. Is competition reserved only for men? Let's unpack what that looks like.

So well, here's my first thing, though, is like, who is deciding that competition is only for men? And the reason why I ask this question is is if women get upset that you can't compete without it being healthy competition, aren't women the reason why women can't compete?

Well, I don't think competition needs to be reserved for men.

I think about just even myself, going back to my pageant days for example, right as a ten eleven year old. First of all, that's something that you sign up for, right, You sign up for that, and you know exactly what you're signing up for. You are getting into a competition where this set of judges are going to pretty much decide who they feel should prevail as the winner. So

So it can do two things.

It can either force one person to prevail as the best of the best because they're trying their best. They're, you know, look their best in their gown, they're feeling their best, they're prepared for the interview portion like that's what they're doing in that space. And then you have other women who may be in this competition thinking, man,

I get all of that, but I don't understand why it's okay for women to compare men openly, but then when they get compared, feel like y'all pinning us against each other.

Why is that okay?

Well, I'm talking about the space of just signing up for competition, Like that's what we know is okay to have competition amongst each other when it comes to men comparing us. I think that that boils down to women having to be chosen by men, right you think about it, Most women, right when you're in the dating scene, whether you're being groomed by your family or your parents, is to put yourself out there to eventually be chosen.

That's what part of the quote unquote patriarchy. I get it. You have to you have to present yourself to be the best man chosen to.

Be chosen exactly.

So then how are you going to be chosen when there's typically for the most part, few quote unquote good men out there, and you want to be chosen by that good man, but you have a slew of women who you are now in competition with essentially, okay, right, so you're thinking, how am I stacking up against this woman next to me in terms of being chosen by someone. That's something I think that's been ingrained in us as women since we were young.

So you think what it is is socially we've been we've been conditioned as men to feel like we can all compete, but we're all going to choose what we want. But for women, it's we're all competing to be chosen, and that's that dynamic. That's the change is the way people are allowed to compare each other.

Now.

I think that that's I mean literally a fair argument because it's a trigger for women when they hear other women get compared as opposed to it's not.

It's not as triggering for men to be compared. I hear that. I hear that.

You can also think about it too.

It's okay for men essentially to date around pick different women, go here, go there. You know, we even spoke about Lori Harvey in a previous episode where she, you know, is now dating different people within the industry, and it's like, are people looking down at her that for that reason because she's deciding to date around. Whereas if it's a guy that's dating around because he has his pic of the litter too, we rever that.

We're like, no, we don't.

They call they call futul Hope, they called Future Home.

He's dropping babies everywhere.

And what I mean, my.

Thing is, here's my biggest thing. I feel like we are as people are evolving. You know what I'm saying, We're evolving. I'll give you that, though it will definitely be triggering for women to be compared because of the way we've all been conditioned, and women who compete have to be chosen.

So I'll give you that.

My biggest issue is is that I think we start diminishing the accomplishments of the women who are in those competitions to be the greatest by saying we can't speak about this. For example, for sure, Nicki Minaj and Lil Kim, Beyonce, Rihanna, Sheryl Lee, Ralph and Viola Davis, if they haven't made any art in the last ten years, but the younger generation is constantly compared to them.

That keeps their legacy going. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

And if we say we can't speak on this because we're pinning Black women against each other, what we're doing is we're letting some of these legacies die. Another example is on The Breakfast Club, they had this conversation about the Queen of R and B and I forgot who it was who was on there talking about being the queen of R and B.

And they said Anita Baker.

And then someone said, well, Beyonce isn't in that conversation, and I forgot who it was who was speaking, but it was another It was another singer who has enough credits in her own right to give an opinion, said that Beyonce isn't in the conversation when it comes.

To R and B.

And immediately the Internet was just like, Oh, she's a hater. Why are we pinning Black women against each other? Why does it have to be Anita Baker versus Beyonce.

And none of that.

And my thing is and my thing is Diana Ross Anita Bakers like these are women who haven't made music in decades, and if we were allowed to constantly compare their accomplishments to a Beyonce, it would allow their legacies to keep going more young kids, like Cairo's favorite player is Michael Jordan. Why because we constantly compare Michael Jordan to Lebron James. You know what that does for Michael Jordan's legacy that we constantly compare him to Lebron James.

Just And also ultimately, it comes down to a round of preference. Like everybody have their favorite, so why can't we have our favorites? And that's okay, yes, because not everybody is Rihanna fan, not everybody is a Beyonce fan, and.

That's okay, right.

I think it's the word pitting that is kind of triggering because it's like a competition thing. But I think it's healthy. And then where's the difference between comparison and competition. Is it hand in hand or do you think it's the same thing.

I honestly feel like it's semantics.

And I feel like a lot more people who get offended by they get offended by it more than the artists do. Right, And this is the one thing I can't stand with Black people. I can't, I can't. I hope we stop doing this. We feel like we're the only people who compare our grades. I hear people say all the time black people are the only one that compare WI pitting women against each other.

No, that's not true. I act trouble.

I was just like when it comes to white white artists, like white female artists, right, is there anyone who like we compare like a barber streisand or Celine Dion to a tailor Swift? And Tripple said, if you ever dare compare any artist to a tailor swift, the tailor Swift.

People will come for you a lot like the beehive.

But what happens is Black people we be so caught up in our lane of our artists, that we don't realize that other other ethnic groups and culches.

Do the same thing.

I was in the airport and it was a group of white men arguing about Andrew Schultz and Seinfeld.

And I kid you not, I'm in here.

And this young dude he was like, man, Andrew Andrew Schultz is like hilarious, he's fun like that he gets a sitcom and he starts to do some specials.

Man, he could be up there with Seinfeld.

This older gentleman said, how dare you compare Andrew Schultz to Seinfeld. It's not even close. And the dude was like, I'm not saying he's better than Seinfeld. What I'm saying is is he's funnier. Seinfeld had a better or has a better career so far, but he's older, he's had time to Andrew Schultz. If he does certain things, he's going to be up there.

He could pass.

And they were having a full fledged argument a lot like we do Kevin Hard and Eddie Murphy and Chris Rock. But to me, I haven't really listened to anything that Seinfeld or Andrew Schultz has done. But it was funny to me to hear these these white men argue and debate. But then in my mind, think, you know how many black people feel like they don't argue and debate about their greates like we do ours?

And I'm telling you they do.

Everybody has their grade in their in their ethnic group that they can relate to because it looks like them, and they have their own debates. Just because we only listen to our people argue about our greats doesn't mean that black people don't.

Only want who did that?

That's why.

And I think that's a really good point too, because but what do when I think about it, Is it that the scarcity mindset right when it comes to Black women in competition? Is it because of the scarcity mindset of thinking that there's not enough opportunity for enough Black women to be successful? Is that what's really taking us over and feeling like man, like we there's only one spot? You know, you think about the audition process for a show.

If there's a five people or six person ensemble cast, you're probably gonna have three or four white leads.

At least there's going to be three men than your white woman.

Then you're gonna have the one black person one Asian, or one black, one Indian, or one black one Latina. You also, realistically and if the one black is either going to be a one black guy or one black girl. And that's the fact, and mainly because if you look at and understand number one, living in America, we are still fifteen to eighteen percent of the population. White people

So I will agree with you on the scarcity mindset.

That typically there are way less opportunities for black people and even weigh less opportunities for black women to be at the top.

Do you remember, so I do agree with that.

Yeah, I remember that time I was I was pinned for a show, a role on a show, Yes, and I made it to the top two, and it was between myself and someone else yes, and they ended up going with the other young lady. And then we got an insider tip that the reason why she was picked was because they had to check like a Southeast Asian.

Southeast Asian, Yes, I'm.

Sri Lankan in Pakistani.

Okay, now you're gonna go to your twenty three and.

Now I'm going to my twenty three and being pulling it out.

I could have definitely passed for that, but then I guess it became a matter of you know, you.

Got a little drop of black and uu black black.

So then at this point I'm in a space where I'm just like, man, where exactly do I fit in? Can I be Southeast Asian or can I be black or black? I can't be either at this point, it seems like sometimes because it's hard, But I'm saying that to say, if there's that one spot for a black woman, there's that one spot for a black woman, and that innately already puts.

In the competition.

There's that one spot that we're all vying for but we can't get, and that in itself creates a competition amongst black women.

Yeah, but that mindset is so limiting and simple because yeah, there may be one spot on that one show, but.

There are hundreds of shows.

So it's like, if we're talking about these women are the greatest, and we're constantly discussing who's the greatest, what that does is that puts those.

Women in everyone's eye line to see. O.

Wait, if these three or four black women are the ones that they're constantly saying, who's the best.

If we can't get her, let's try her, you know what I'm saying.

But if we said we're not going to ever compare and then we don't have any of these discussions, it doesn't put these women in the light for their talent to shine.

You know what I'm saying.

I think that's a good take on it. Because we're always thinking about the negative. Is that what we're naturally doing to as black people is looking for the negative?

Like why would they be put against each other?

Not?

Oh my goodness, these two women are bombed in their own right and as a matter of time, depending on the show, depending on the opportunity this person prevails.

Also, it's how you compare, right, If you're going to compare to talents, compare them on what they do well. Don't try to knock one to help the other. You't understand what I'm saying.

So you mean who's better suited for the particular opportunity.

No, not even that.

For for example, I'll give you arguments. Right, Okay, we talk about Lebron James and Michael Jordan. Right, If you're going to argue those two, you would say, Michael Jordan won six titles and has six finals MVPs. Right, And then they'll say, well, Lebron James is the all time leading score in NBA history. Those are two positive ways to compare two grades, right. But then some people will be like, Michael Jordan played against plumbers the nineties, was

You know what I'm saying.

So you mean picking out the flaws in those moments versus revering what they've done.

Yes, positively, Yes, Okay.

You know what I'm saying.

Like the statement, quote unquote, she ain't no Beyonce, people had a problem with the statement saying like she's not she doesn't reach Beyonce's you know, she doesn't reach Beyonce's standard, as opposed to saying Rihanna is great in her own right, but I would prefer to watch Beyonce performed, because Beyonce is a greater performance.

Exactly exactly what I was about to say. In the entertainment realm of who's going to put on a show? And since we're talking about a halftime show performance that people look forward to, who's going to be the better performer in that moment based off of his story?

Historically? Who is?

You know? But then you're not talking about necessarily the fact that Rihanna's a freaking billionaire, you know what I mean? Some people may say she's the goat because of that, she's the super business woman he was talking about in that specific moment performance, And.

To be honest, all press is good press.

You never want to have anything negative, But that statement that Stephen they made really had people going back to pull up receipts about how great Rihanna is. And that's my point, you know what I'm saying. That's my point. When you have those discussions about greatness, it makes people pay attention to someone that they might not have paid attention to.

For example, have people.

Been have a discussion about Beyonce being the greatest woman entertaining of all time? And then people from different generations like, hello, have you ever watched Tina Turner perform? And then I had people going back to be like, oh, wait a minute, have you ever watched Janet Jackson perform? And then I said, oh wait a minute. We don't ever discussed these women in these in this light, So we don't ever have

And you know what's what's so impactful about that statement. You just made black women in Hollywood. Yeah what a time.

Yeah.

Yeah, we were able to be in that space with some of the greats in the industry.

And then also people who are trying to be at that level.

Yes, yeah, right, yeah.

The love in that room, the support in that room amongst black women who are in the industry doing things, the tidbits, the gems, if you will. I just hate

Didn't Wasn't there a story about Jada Pinkett and Gabrielle Union having an unspoken beef throughout Hollywood and neither one of them knew.

Why was it the two of that? I know, but I.

Don't remember.

But I do remember at one point Jada Pinkett was the eight Girl in Hollywood, so it was then Nihilathan, so was Gabrielle Union, so it was nia long there was four black women who are like the eight Girls in Hollywood, and I remember there was like an unspoken beef between them or whatever. But also sometimes those beefs be created by the fans, and the beefs don't really exist, So it's not really that those women, right, It's not really.

Those women that are beefing.

The fans of each group are often battling about who's better, and that's when it becomes the hyu pinning two black women against each other.

It's like no one pinning them.

So yeah, So I often realize, like this whole discussion about pitting black women against each other, and this is what I just think really limiting how we highlight the accomplishments of black women in entertainment and also in sports. Yeah, because we shouldn't limit the debates about who the goat to just men. For example, who's the goat in tennis? I personally think it's Serena Williams. And I'm not talking about who's the goat amongst men or women. I'm talking

That's how I feel.

But I feel like sometimes people are scared to compare Serena because they don't want to be They don't want to feel like I don't want people to think that I don't support black women if I don't compare, you know, compare her.

So she should just stand alone by So we shouldn't compare her too.

Right for example, right, we shouldn't compare her at all because she's a black woman. Just leave her alone, don't talk about it. We're doing her disservice. We should always talk about her. We should always talk about beyond you. We should always talk about Tina Turner, you know what I'm saying. We should always talk about Viola, like Hattie McDaniel. We should always talk about these women, and we should compare them. Why because that's how the youth are going

And that's just my opinion. That's how we compare them.

That's perspective, because I wouldn't think of that, and it may be to me buying into the rhetoric of oh my god, we are like pinning each other, and it's always a competition with black women, and why can't we just support each other without there being the competition factor.

Well, what you expressed to me, Explain to me why it triggered you that way. Because because of how the patriarchy has the patriarchy has designed we we as women, we as people expect a woman to compete to be chosen to be chosen as opposed to a man competing to have the right to choose, which, if you think about it, is a huge power.

Dynamic, absolutely huge.

So we can't dismiss why it is this way, and I think that's what's good for us to discuss. Let's discuss why and then make steps to change it. We know why, we understand why, but can we change the thought process behind it?

Oh for sure. Absolutely.

It's jump into some facts and stats about today's episode. In a study by the Harvard Business Review, in a sample of thirty one people, not thirty two, sixty three percent of the women were less convinced that the average man than the average than the average man, sorry, than the average man, that competition boosts performance, builds character, and leads to innovative solutions.

Why do you think that is why why are more women thinking that competition doesn't boost performance where men are taught from.

Young That's odd to me personally.

It's odd to me because maybe because, like I said early on, I've been in the space of competition. But to me, it was a thing where iron sharp and iron. If I saw somebody that was doing something that I wanted to do or was just great in their lane at that, I wanted to be in a space to learn from that. And to me, it wasn't competition. It was a learning experience. You know what I'm saying.

You want hear something crazy that I just thought about what you just said.

You grew up in the pageant space, yes, where competition was healthy, and that's what you did.

Yes.

But now they're trying to get rid of pageants because they say pageants objectify women and pin women against each other. You see how they're trying to get rid of the pageants system.

They are trying to get rid of it.

And I mean, granted, every pageants system and circuit is different, so what they're looking for in their winner is going to be different. I competed in a system where it was a scholarship pageant for the most part. So they were looking for someone that not just had a particular look and that looked you know, the part. It was part of it, but biggest thing was the interview portion. Like if you broke down the percentage of the competition,

But the real heavy hitter was the interview portion.

They wanted someone who could speak well, who they can send out to events and could be a good representative of the system and their state. So for me, early on, I was like, man, that's how being in front of a camera or being good at interviewing like that was something that I did early on and it helped to

There's so many dynamics that now that you have me like, think of bringing that aspect from women. For example, remember some mobile in the middle of the Olympics decided that she was having anxiety attack and she didn't want to compete anymore, and people championed that from her walking away. But when a man decides he needs to take time away from his sport, he's considered soft.

You just stand what I'm saying. It's like there are different sets.

Of rules for men, always, always.

And it goes back to this whole thing about competition, and if we're breeding young women, that competition isn't healthy. You know, I can understand now why women when they see two women being put against each other's who's the best?

Why that's considered pitting.

It's a social media space too.

You're gonna do a side by side of two women and be like, you know, who looks better? You know, you look at social media literally is like perpetuating this entire argument, because that's all people do is compare and compete through pictures and videos. Whose content looks better, whose

Didn't like this dress and you know, her hair was terrible.

Like there's a space for people to just talk shit, and that's literally what's causing this competition to be even more of a negative thing where it could have been in healthy discussion.

And you sign up for this shit too. So if you're a pageant girl or you get into this competition, you sign up for it. So you have to be okay with being in an arena to be compared, like that's what you signed up for. If you're not in a space to be able to receive that criticism, critique, don't don't do that. Don't enter into that space, because you're signing yourself up literally for that.

You're actually right, You're actually right.

When you do go into that space and you sign up for it, know what it is.

Don't be a baby about it. Afterwards, I agree with you doing that. I do have to applaud. Uh, just take this time to applaud Michael B.

Jordan and Jonathan Majors because I remember growing up and they were saying, you know why Denzel Washington Will Smith never did a movie together, and they were saying, it's because it's impossible to have two male, black male leads at the same time, right, Like, no one wants to be number two, No one wants to be you know

To exist in their greatness. I did not watch them. First of all, shout out to Creed three because I watched it and stayed awake the entire movie.

Y'all form before Kaz.

And I stayed awake and me and Kaz are are We've been dubbed the Sagit Terrorists of the family.

We stayed awake during Free three.

I did not watch that movie and be like man Michael Be's performance was better than Jonathan's or Jonathan had him in that scene or oh in this sparring match that happens in this scene, like he.

Won that scene. Like I didn't look at it like that.

I saw two men, two actors who were successful in their craft in that space in that film.

Yeah, that's it.

So you know what needs to happen now, right, Beyonce and Rihanna need to go on tour together.

Imagine, first of all, do you know how crazy that.

All Man man, all Man sign me.

Up, Beyonce and Rihanna tour, sign me up? It would be, it.

Would be, it would be, it wouldn't be enough spaces to hold.

I know it wouldn't be. It wouldn't be And I don't.

Think it would be a battle. It would be people celebrating these two women in their greatness.

But I think think that's what it's gonna take.

It's gonna it's gonna take two of the elite at their craft to come together to say and even.

Have a healthy competitive set.

You know, they don't got to come out there and raise hands and say we're one kumbay y'all.

But it's like we're gonna compete for y'all and y'all.

It would show people that it's okay for women to be competitive and to go against each other head to head and laugh and love on each other while doing it. Because I think that that it's possible, and I think it will be better for the legacies of women if we allowed that space to exist. Fact, you know, everything

So that's a fact that if you don't have those opportunities, you create them, right, Because I was in a space where I'm seeing people creating those opportunities for themselves.

And the truth is there's no lose.

Holly Berry was the second place in the Miss America pageant or Miss USA pageant.

She became second place and became Holly Berry Baby. You know what I'm saying. Jennifer Hudson.

Jennifer Hudson, Yeah, exactly.

American and became Jennifer Hudson.

Right, top model? Was it even?

And yah yah yaya, yeah Yahyahsan.

Are both doing it.

My homegirl evil.

Yes, yes, yes.

Also in the Harvey Business Review found out that indeed, people with more positive beliefs about competition were more likely to choose a competitive option. Of the women, twenty one percent chose the competitive option compared to thirty six percent of men. Research by economists and political scientists indicate that competitive people do better socioeconomically.

So now, now, yeah, no, I love being.

Competitive, yeah, both of us, both of us.

I think that even in love, you know, in relationship, I think attracted us to each other, right because I saw that you were a competitor and you tried to be great and whatever it is that you did, and you met me and I had competitive I was just like, man, I'm trying to be the best, Like I truly believe in the iron sharp and iron iron sharpens iron mentality. So for me, I welcome competition because I can just see that as a way for me to you know.

But look at the correlation.

Though, economists and political sciences indicate that competitive people do more socio economically. If we as black people learn how to compete in a healthy matter, it will help us as a people socio economically. There's I think there is a direct correlation to the fact that socio economically, black people are at the bottom of the total poem. It has a lot to do also with, of course white supremacy, right, and the systems that have been put in place to constantly disenfranchise us.

So it's not only about competitiveness, but.

It would help us if we learned how to embrace competition, not just amongst other people, but competing amongst each other. Right, seeing two young black girls who are great at something and saying, y'all need to compete to be the best, and watch them flourished. I gave you an example. I played with Marcus Colston. When I first got to Hofstra. I said to Marcus, I'm coming for your spot. Marcus

All time and receiving yards left it period.

It's like, to me, I just feel like competition amongst people brings the best and we need to create a space for black women to compete with each other and thrive.

That's just my opinion. That's just my opinion that with Jackson.

Now with basketball, it's like, why would you play people who are at your level? Try to playing in the seventh grader, absolutely compete, compete, all right, And according to psych Central, if your female peers are competing with you, it might seem like they're just being mean because there's also that side of things that we've seen. They may engage in behaviors like gossiping, negativity, sabotage, gas lighting, nosiness, boasting, mimicking,

Question.

You do have the people who are go sorry, gradual question, no, no, finish.

You do have people who are intimidated by such greatness that may in the in turn internalize that and try to be negative.

So do you now feel like also the onus is on women to allow a space for women to compete.

And I'll give you an example. In high school, when.

The young boys were competing for a male athlete of the Year or for student body president, it remained cordial.

You know, they were the homies. You know, we do it.

When the women were competing for homecoming queen, it got nasty sometimes, you know what I'm saying. Do you feel like it's on women to start to embrace that or is this something that men can do to help facilitate the belief that competitiveness, Because if it's starting this young from young girls, how do we create that space when they become women. If when they're young, they're already being taught that if oh, if I'm competing against her, let's gossip into Yeah.

I mean, I don't think it's a man's responsibility to create a space for I think it's the onus is definitely on us as women and as we as women raise more women, not pitting them against each other, right, because it can start as early as in like a preschool room looking at another little girl. And you've seen to I think there was a video that was, you know, on social media somewhere where there was a little girl that was talking about another girl's hair being prettier than hers.

And who knows where she had gotten that from.

Is it an innate thing that women just have in general, because we're said to be emotionally more what's the word vulnerable than men? You know?

So is that a thing that women just innate have?

But we as women, I think, have to create a space where the competition can be healthier and it doesn't have to be the negativity and the sabotage, and a lot of that breeds from insecurity, you know, not feeling confident in yourself. We should be more so building people's confidence up first, because naturally, if you're confident in your space, then you can enter into a space where you're competitive

I did the work, and what's wrong with that?

I did the work, I'm prepared and it didn't require me to go in there thinking like I was the shit. No, I was gonna be cordial and nice and miscongeniality.

But I knew can real quick.

Yeah, what is wrong with feeling like you are the ship to me? Let's let's be honest, right, you know, how can you expect other people to feel you are the ship enough to give you a crown in a banner if you walk in here feeling like, I don't know if I'm this shit? Like, let's be honest, right, And this is my thing too. What with athletes and entertainers, salespeople?

Right?

The first person who has to believe that you are capable of doing everything you're going to do is you a fact.

So we have to stop this.

Idea that being just being humble quote unquote and believing that other people are better than you is how you're going to prosper. That's not the way the world works, yo, it's not at all. You have to believe that you are the best at what you do if you want to ultimately be the best.

At what you do, and the duality can exist in you being confident that you are that but still being amicable in the process.

You know what that's called? What divine economy? Excuding metonomy shout out to shout out to the norf'll if y'all listening, but also watch or patreo, y'all know what skinny ptonomy's is. But no, the divine that economy is that two things can't exist at the same time. You can believe that you are the greatest of what you.

Do little there and be kind in the process.

That's one thing that I went in that patget prepared, baby, you know me, me had me together.

I had my page of coaches. She was one of them.

You know.

I was ready to go in there.

I was practicing my turns, my walk, my interview skills, all that. So I went in there knowing the crown was mine. But did I go in there saying, y'all, I don't know why y'all showed up today because y'all might as well go home because the crown is mine?

No, you kidd I'm.

I felt that shit it and saying it out loud, exactly exactly. I was keycky in with the best of them, voted miss congeniality, miss personality and all that. But little do they know inside I said I am coming for y'all, and sometimes I didn't win, and that's okay, true, that's okay too. But I had to believe in myself and nobody was gonna take that shit away from me.

No how I like it, I like you.

Pros and cons of being competitive. Pro Competition motivates you to work harder, that's a fact. Con can be the pressure.

Can be stressful. People are not built for that. If you're not built for that, don't put yourself in that arena. Period.

The pressure of competition, like that's part of competition. That what happened, Like I can't, I can't get on to this new age thing.

Of neither me.

And it's the same thing for pro athletes and entertainers CEOs of companies. When you want to get paid a premium to do what you do, and then you get paid the premium to do what you do, and then once you get paid, like, oh, the pressure is too much. That's why you got fucking paid. My man, period, And that to me, I don't care if it's a man or a woman. When you've worked that hard to get to that level, you understand the stresses that come with That's why you get paid the.

Big bucks of the price.

You don't become a CEO of a fortune five hundred company and when you get up there and be like, I need to take a mental health break because this is a lot.

That's why you get paid. It's the same thing for athletes and entertainers like I just but.

I will support people taking moments to take small breaks. However, you're very right in what you're saying. If you put yourself in that space and that atmosphere, you have to perform at a high level, absolutely, regardless of what that looks like.

The absolutely need you to do it, for sure.

Absolutely.

Competing can teach you how to lose gracefully. Yes, pushing people this is well, that was a pro con. Losing can push people into toxic behavior patterns.

No, I don't see. This is my thing.

I don't think losing pushes people into toxic behavior patterns. I feel like people already practice toxic behavior patterns, and then when they lose, they have that they use that as a license to exercise those You understand what I'm saying. No one just is positive and then when they lose be like, Okay, now I'm gonna be toxic. People just be fucking toxic and it's like, now I lost, I have a right to do this way. I never felt like losing was a bad thing. Losing is always a lesson.

It tells you that like WHOA, I thought I was.

The best, but I'm not the best because I got defeated in this aspect of what I do. So I always felt losing as a positive thing, you know, and if on the road to being the best, no one becomes the best undefeated, it doesn't happen. Bro there's losses happens different aspects of life.

You know what I'm saying so absolutely, And I also think about just in the space of for example, with me, when it came to losing, for example, I was in a space to think, Okay, what can I do differently and also knowing that it is literally what happens.

In that time and space. Like I said, people fickle as hell.

It could have been a different situation, different time, different space, and somebody else might have prevailed as the way you know what I'm saying, Like, think about it, even in a basketball game, you know, it was like the perfect storm of events, for example with Lebron when he broke that record, Like it was the perfect time and space for him to do that in that moment.

And he prevailed.

And you have to honor that.

If he walk up the wrong side of the bed that morning, say you know, I'm feeling a little off this morning, and then it didn't happen in that moment.

There could have been so many things.

There could have been so many variables.

That's what I'm looking for, so many variables that can affect the outcome of someone's success. Pro Being a fairst competitor can solidify your legacy. A con your fulfillment can be measured only by how much you win. And then pro learning how to lose with grace and win with humility A good tips.

That coin is real all right there. Your for filming can only be measured by how much you win.

That's not using it the lost the lesson.

Yeah, that's not and that's and that's I see a lot of people deal with that who are super competitive, it's like if they lose, everything goes out the window.

I lost.

I was never supposed to lose. But that's not having a realistic perspective of how life works, fact, you know.

And also a lot of that.

Comes from people who are drilling winning is everything. I don't think winning is everything. I think competing is everything. And that's the difference, right, competing.

The process the process.

But even in a race, right, I say this to Jackson, You're going up with a bunch of kids, and you run a terrible race, and you slow up at the end and you sluggage coming out the start, and you still win.

I'm not happy about that.

Facts, right, you come out with a fast start, you lose, but you run your best pr times.

To me, that's a victory right there.

Absolutely, Because sometimes your your biggest competition is yourself, and you're competing against who you were yesterday, not exact, not exactly against the field.

You know.

People always think that when you're competing, you're competing against the field.

No, I'm competing.

Against the val always, And if da Vow was this way yesterday, I got to be better than de Vo tomorrow.

In fact, I'm over here competing with this body child. I'm trying to get back to that Kadeena Devo college junk in the trunk. You know these boys didn't me all right now definitely is here? By look at my old pictures like man, I was thin then? Then all right and let's close out by baby. Want telling about the shine theory?

What that looks like?

Yes, a term coined by the Call Your Girlfriend podcast co hosts A Mina two. So I'm gonna make sure I say this young lady's name correctly, Amina too.

So.

Shine theory is a practice of mutual investment in one another. It is an investment over the long term and helping someone be their best self sounds like us, and relying on their help in return. That's definitely uses. It is a conscious decision to bring your full self to your friendships, oh my gosh, and to not let insecurity or envy ravish them. We were just talking about did you talk about competing? You know, people compete within their relationship.

Yeah, we were talking about this recently. It's wild to me.

It's wild people have.

What is it professional envy or or career envy or something?

Yes, yeah, shine theory is a commitment to asking would we be better as collaborators than as competitors? The answer is always own almost always yes. Yo, Me and my boy Dolo. Shout out Dolo. I remember when I retired from the NFL. My brother just got out of college. Dolo got out of college and he was a fitness professional. He went to school for kinesiology. I had just started studying exercise physiology and kinesiology because I was doing.

Speed and performance training for kids. He started.

He was training in the park at Girshum Park. Shout out, Brooklyn, East, New York. We were both training in the park. So we partnered together and started doing all of our work together. And for ten years we built He built his business, Dolo's Fitness. I built Elite Prototype Athletics, and together we both built Prototype Sports Performance Lab. And I remember people saying like, yow, y'all both do the same thing. How were y'all working together? And I was just like, listen

We both do the same thing within the same community.

You know what I'm saying, Well, you ain't worried about him stealing your clients and you're stealing his clients. And say, here's the funny part. When I can't take a client you know who, I've asked them to dolo.

Remember when you were doing auditions and you were just like, oh my god, I have this audition that popped up. Your clientele was super super understanding becausey knew what time it was, and then like, okay, if we don't have the vale, we have dolo.

Leg goes back to the scarcity mind that the scarcity mindset is the idea that there's not enough space for both to us, both of us.

To exist and be successful. That is a real thing. You know what, that's my moment of truth. That's my moment of truth.

Well yeah, it documents that document that, but that's that's ultimately what it is. Think about the conversation we're just having with Nelly and Janelle. Shout out to my glam squad, Nelly and Janelle, who who are comprised of a couple of people who I use amazing artists within the space of glam and they were talking about how artists and self they can't support each other or they're worried about clients being stolen by you know, you don't even think

You can't steal a client.

But I have now built a team of artists around me where they reverer each other, they love on each other. I mean I was with Nelly on tour and then I came back to Atlanta and Grace shout out to Grace my makeup artists in Atlanta.

Nellie called Grace on.

FaceTime at like six in the morning to say, hey, girl, I know you have Kadeen this morning, Like how's it going?

You know what look y'all doing.

She was so excited to just chat with Grace really quickly to be on the same page about like what product worked for me last time, what she noticed about my skin. And I'm like, wow, I have a team of women who love each other and support each other. Because there's gonna be work for everybody. There's certain moments when y'all are booked and busy, so I'm gonna have

All right, let's take a quick break.

Forget that.

I won't forget it. You got it? Awesome?

All right, let's take a quick break, y'all, and we're gonna get into these list of letters after we pay some bills. All right, back into listening to letters. We're going to dive in and see what y'all got to talk about today. Hello, Davalenkadeen. I'm a new listener, just started following last month and really enjoy your content.

Welcome listener. We always love newbies.

I'm a truck driver and I travel long hours in the night and this podcast definitely keeps me entertained and awake at night, So for that, I thank you.

That's awesome.

I have a question I would like to ask about a situation in my marriage. My husband and I of eight years decided two years ago that we would have an open marriage. The reason is that we are both sexually and we're both sexual and kinky type of people and thought it would be fun to explore and have experiences. I really assumed I would enjoy being open until I

Girl?

Tell your husband? Yall?

Y'all had an agreement if it's going to clear your conscience, and y'all have an arrangement already, Like the biggest reason why people with whole information typically is because they are afraid of the other person's reaction or they're afraid of a consequence. There's no consequence here because y'all agree to it, unless you feel like you're not sure if your husband's you know, had a time or.

Two he been clapping cheeks, mam. He clapping cheeks me if you got time to go out and have a fling with another guy and he ain't. No, this is because he clapping cheeks too, and you already had a conversation and the agreement.

I don't see what's the matter.

Like, one thing I don't ever do is I don't judge other people's relationships to people communicate what they want and they agree to it, then too.

I mean, it depends on what your religious beliefs are.

If you made a vow to each other and a vow to God and you feel guilty because you feel like you made a vow to God that you pass, that's on you. You know, you should have a conversation with God that in that situation. But as far as your husband, man, y'all had a conversation, y'all talked about it. Y'all did y'all thing, you did your thing? Your man definitely clapping cheeks, all right, So you know, go tell them see how you feel about it. But here's a

I wonder if it's for fear that she doesn't enjoy open relationships, but maybe he does.

So what happens There'll be maybe a conversation, in a conversation of a conversation, he wants to continue with that and you don't.

Well, here's the thing.

He might not want to, says.

He might not want to, but he may still want to. And if he does, he has this open conversation.

You got to be open to that because once you open that door, you can't just close it when it's convenient for you. But I think a conversation needs to be had. Don't keep it from him, have the conversation.

All right, good luck to you, says all right, number two, So on you.

Baby, hid Vala Kadeen was good. I've been with my boyfriend for five years. I found out that he cheated on me last year. The affair with the other woman lasted about two years, and they formed a physical and emotional connection. I forgave him and stayed with him, but I still feel resentful towards him at times. He's a love of my life and I want him to be my husband and the father of my future children, but

Is what I feel.

Girl.

When people tell you who they are, believe them. He cheated on you for two years and he said he's not ready for marriage.

So he's showing you and only is he's saying he's showing you he's not ready for marriage.

That's a fact.

It is not your job to make him ready for marriage.

Everyone was half of y'all's relationship that he was another woman.

He's showing you that he's not ready to be a husband or have you as a wife, So don't force that.

If he's 't sure about marriage and the top, sorry to cut you off.

If he's un sure about marriage and the topic of marriage whenever it's brought up in marriage may not be for him, particularly in this moment. And I'm thinking maybe her fear is like, wow, what if I walk away from this? But he decides that he wants to choose marriage later on, Well, it's just if you're available then then maybe you could spend the block. But until then, I say, keep it pushing.

I agree, I agree one thousand percent. I just feel like have the conversation once again. Tell him what you require, what you need, what you want, ask him what he requires, needs and want, and if they don't align, don't be afraid to say, you know what, this isn't working out for me one of the best interests of what I want from my life. So I think it'd be best if we move forward in different directions and hopefully, you know, you change your mind one day, but this is what

All right, love y'all, thank you for always writing in. If you want to be featured as one of our listener letters, be sure to email us at dead Ass Advice at gmail dot com.

That's d E A d A S S A d V I C E at gmail dot com.

All right, time for the truthful moment, moment of truth. What you got for us today?

Babe?

Do you remember what you said you were going to say?

Yes?

The first thing is I enjoyed these topics and I enjoy these conversations because I get to get insight into the mindset. Right, I, for the sake of me, didn't understand why they were killing stephen A so much. But something you said and we talked about and Trouble did some research the scarcity mindset of where the black women exists in America. It is just belief that there isn't enough space for all of us to be great. So

And there's two things.

Number One, there is validity in that statement, in that belief that there's not enough space because there's literally not enough opportunities for everyone. But that's not just black women as black men, that there's just not a lot of I'll just for everyone accept you.

If you're a white male, white.

Male pretty much struggles.

I guess yeah, I mean white women have their struggle as well, but it's not the same as Black women, like you can't equate, that could never compare. So I do understand the scarcity mindset, but I will challenge this my moment of truth.

I will challenge black women to understand this. There is space. There may not be space and where you see it right now in that moment.

So you may be competing for that role, but if you don't get that role, or you don't get that song, or you don't get that job, that doesn't mean that there isn't another job, a better job, or a more equivalent job somewhere else. And I say that to say this competition will always keep you at your highest and if we learn as people, specifically black women, how to

So that's my moment of truth.

Understanding that the scarcity mindset is why Black women are so afraid of being pinned against each other, but also understanding that there is space and if we all exist in that space in a healthy matter, we all can.

Thrive good stuff. Baby Like that, I guess my moment of truth. I'll speak directly to black women, my counterparts. Being a black woman, we.

Need to stop allowing people loud minorities, whoever they are social media to spew that rhetoric towards us to the point where we believe it. And I say that because existing in spaces that are designed for Black women, i e.

Black women in Hollywood, I E.

Our workspace with the people who we partner with, Glam Talent Crew, these are all spaces where we revere each other and we know that. And I feel like, deep down, black women know that we create these spaces because we

I feel you, all right, y'all, y'll.

Have beef with the Srilankans. And because because you claim to be a black woman and you don't claim to be shri Lankan.

I do acknowledge it. Because also that's that's a portion of my heritage now that I know. You know, you look at my dad, my dad, you know, you look at him. He's not a black man, you know. So I have to speak to both cultures, but I speak particularly about black women because I know that that's what I'm looked at at. If I have an ounce of black blood and me, it's gonna.

Make me black. And I'm going to revere that what do you identify as a black woman.

Until that role come on? Then you street lined.

Yesterday, I'm looking for Indian line, Bollywood is look for somebody. Okay, No, I can celebrate both cultures simultaneously, particularly based on the topics.

It was just so funny to me because when you found.

I'm sorry and a Bindi, I'm ready to go, Okay.

Are you culturally appropriated?

But no, I was toling you because I remember when they called you and it was just like, you know, they decided to go in this week because to check off the box of East Asian and.

You was just like.

Me, it's.

It's thirty two point seven percent around that ship up thirty three percent, you know what I mean. But we're speaking particularly about black women today and the pitting of each other, the pinning of us against each other.

You know, I thought your father was Indian when I first mentioned Yeah, I think I told that story.

Yeah, I think you did.

Yeah.

I didn't think we were ever going to be together because I was just like, oh, I US Indian, Indian people don't fuck with black people.

I legitimately thought that that's what was going to happen.

So and truth be told, My follow loves yeah.

Yeah, yeah, Jamaican for sure, even though he's from Saint Vincent.

Yes, he loves he loves the Jamaican.

He loves Jamaican women, especially that part.

All right, y'all, be sure to follow us on Patreon and we're so, so so happy to have y'all here to see exclusive dead Ass podcast video content. We have the after show for y'all to tune into the full show episodes. So it's a real treat to be a part of our Patreon family. And be sure to find us on social media. We have the podcast page dead Ass the Podcast on Instagram and then you can find me Kadeen I am on Instagram and TikTok and.

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