The Church Ain’t the Building with Pastor Reginald Sharpe Jr.

boys and reading each other publicly as a form of therapy. Wait, I'll make you need therapy most days. Wow. And one more important thing to mention, we're married. We are. We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of life's most taboo topics, things most folks don't want to talk about through the lens of a millennial married couple. That ads to the term that we say every day. So when we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts, the truth,

the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Were about to take billows up to a whole new level. Dead ass starts right now. So when I was eighteen years old, I decided to go to college, as most people do when they want to just get away from their family. But I grew up in a Baptist household. I grew up with family who are deacons, ministers, ministers of music.

So I just knew that God existed. And I met this beautiful woman by the name of Caneia might know her maybe somewhere around him, but um, I found out that she was a Seven Day Adventist, and I was just like, Hmmmm, if I'm going to have kids, are they going to grow up Seven Day Adventists or they going to grow up uh Baptist? Uh, well, Christian Baptist. So then I started to wonder, right, because we go to church on different days, right, So you go to

church on Saturdays. I go to church on Sundays, So it's gonna be a whole weekend in church, a whole weekend in church. But I do remember thinking, right, if her beliefs don't match my beliefs based on what my beliefs are, does that mean that her and all of her people going to Hell? Because ultimately that's what you think, right growing up in a in a Baptist, especially a Southern Baptist church, you feel like everyone who doesn't agree with what you agree going to Hell. So the fact

that you didn't go to church on Sunday. I was wondering, does that mean Candee going to Hell? And you know what, I thought, the same exact thing they promise you. I was like, so, how is this going to work? Based on everything that I've thought I've been taught, even though I wasn't following it per se, I was like, how

is this going to work? How do you raise two children or our children, or how do two people have children and then begin to raise these children when they may not be on the same page or in the same book. And the rest is history. We figured it out, we're trying to figure it out. So in honor of karaoke today, and we want to sing one of my favorite songs. Pull out the gospel playlists you read, Okay, now we follow down, but we get up. We folled down,

but we get up. We folled down, but we get up for a same' is just singa who felled Down? That's like your favorite? And God, God the values to thing this to the kids at night when they were like they were crying and I was like, singing a song and he's like, we've older. I'm like, that's one of my favorite songs that don clerking I believe so yeah,

is it right? I think so? Don't if I'm wrong, please please miss If that was an active choir member back in the day, with shout out to Debbie, we love her rage forever he rangs, she would be mad that note. That note was terrible, Debbie, I'm sorry. My favorite was Jesus Love is bubbling Over. That was a Sabba school joint for me. That's a Sunday school to day. Yeah, and then you would just like be like I was able to clap in Seven Day Adventure Church because y'all know,

y'all got mad rules. It was a very conservative clap. There was a very conservative You couldn't ship me with it. You couldn't bop, you couldn't drive, you couldn't double class. You couldn't double class. No, you know, because Baptist. We bet it may be different now, but back in the day when I used to go, it was very like, very rigid. So in a time when information is readily available to us, as we know now with social media, so many things are instant access, does faith take a

backseat to knowledge? Which is kind of ironic because if the knowledge is there and people are seeking or maybe not seeking the knowledge when it comes to faith. Where does Where are people lying? Now? With that? So today we have with us a dynamic spiritual leader, Pastor Reginald

Wayne Sharp Junior. He is the pastor of Fellowship Ministry Baptist Church in Chicago, where he has been lauded for his commitment to service to the church community and commitment to bridging the gap um between spirituality and social activism, which is particularly key in the times that we're in. So even if you're not in Chicago, you may have been introduced to Pastor Sharp uh this year when part of his sermon actually went viral, And we'll play a

little bit of that for you guys. Now in this season, the church is still open, We're still worshiping, We're still doing ministry every week, and I thank God for but we will not return to this building unto the Lord himself. Wakes me about of my sleep, slaps me three times, pours water from Heaven on my face, and warms my feet with the fire of the Holy Ghost. And I have no choice but to jump out of my bed and saying, yes, God, welcome moment. Pastor Reginald. But you

said we can call you Reggie. I feel like, are we there yet? Right? And we made ourselves comfortable, you know what I mean. Typically we would love to have you in studio, but considering the time we're in, zoom

is the way. So we're happy that you're taking time out of your busy schedule to chat with us, for sure, you know, Um, and I wanted to talk a little bit about your shift from you know, being in the sanctuary to now being on YouTube every Sunday and how the dynamics have shifted for you a little bit, um, and about your viral moment. Tell us how that's changed your online presence so far. Well, first let me say thank you. I think y'all are dope. You all represent

my shirt. I feel like you're playing that out? Did you play that out? I didn't. My wife bought the shirt. I put it on, and your wife you sound like like, hey, hey, we gotta thank God for good, good women in our lives. But but but no, it's it's been a journey this year, passed her in through a pandemic. And actually that viral

clip was me giving an announcement. People give church announcements every Sunday, and so I was given an announcement letting the people know we would not come back into the building until the White House opened, until the tours that the Governor's mentioned opened, and it just took off, and it was kind of humorous in the way I said, until their stuff open, none of our stuff will be open.

And so it was humorous but yet so truthful. And we're still we're still moving on with ministry, but the building is closed because we we wanted to put the people's health above the church's finances and and our own desires. So it was a call that I had to make as a shepherd, because we're called to guard and protect God's sheep people. So that was my choice. But moving from physical being in the person in person worship to the virtual experience, it has been an adjustment. But my

favorite word for all leaders this year is you. We've all had to learn how to pivot. You don't hey if you don't know how to pivot, if you don't know how to adjust, if you don't understand what the word innovation means, you're gonna be lost in the sauce. So regardless of what organization you lead or run, we've all had to shift and be open to change, and really in many ways it's been beautiful. That's what's so, you know, in the in the realm of pivoting, allow

me to pivot for a minute, real quick. We talk about sheep and you're leading god sheep. But in when you call someone to sheep, they're normally that's normally a negative connotation that normally since the people who are pretty much sleep and just follow anything blindly. So, as a leader of faith, how do you balance between the changes that society has made with regard to how we lead people and still continue to be um truthful to the word you know, and and truthfully speaking, I understand some

connotations with the word sheep. How people can say no that means you're just blindly following no. But I think the the onus and the responsibility is more so on the shepherd. Uh, we're we're called under shepherd's In my context, I'm not the main shepherd, but I am called to shepherd, which means I fight wolves. We feed sheep, and we fight wolves. So that's on the prophetic side of ministry, not prophecy in the sense of I'm going to tell

you what your future is. You know, I speak what I try to speak to people, what God Will wants said. So that means I stand in some tense places. We have wolves of white supremacy, wolves of voter suppression, wolves of of gender inequality. And so when I view myself as a shepherd, is not that I'm saying the sheep aren't smart, because I got more smart. I have more people with more degrees than I have sitting in the pew.

So I know means that my meaning by that people's intelligence or demeaning people, I'm saying my responsibility is still fighting wolves and making sure that I do the job I have to protect the people that God has called me to lead. So it is a new day, um and and the folks are smart. People are intelligent. So even if I had kept even if I had kept my church open after the people weren't coming, you, you're not up on the latest. Two hundred thousand people have

lost their lives this year. Trump's lost his mind if you stayed open, like listening past his tone deaf, he don't see what's going on in the world right now. And so if anybody is sleep, I think some preachers and pastors have been sleep. And uh, and and and so we have to wake up to the changing of the times, stand up on what's current, what's flowing, and you can have faith and still be aware of the facts.

That I found my balance in that tension, like I just because I'm a man of faith doesn't mean I ignore all the facts. Right, Absolutely, we we deal with that faith verse facts. But we call it a religion versus spirituality because we both grew up in different denominations, because she was seven day Events and I grew up Baptist. So it was like, how do we decide which one we're going to choose for our children? And did we have to particularly did we have to you know what

I mean? So I guess in your expert opinion, would you say that there's a difference between just faith and religion? Um? If so, what's the difference? If not, how do they relate? So faith is an experience that we all have every day. We we've used this word faith to help people understand religion. But when you sat down in that chair and you didn't check to see if the screws were tightened, Uh, if that chair will hold you up, you have faith in their chair. You just sat down in it. When

you get on the airplane. When you get on the airplane and you didn't check the pilot's credentials, that was faith. So we all exhibit faith in every walk of life. And I think the faith is just an experience of our religion, of our spirituality. Religion is more of the set of rules that are set in place that are supposed to help us experience the Holy other. Spirituality is more so without all the rules, without all the rituals, without of the creeds and the codes. It's just my

experience with something greater than myself or with myself. Different people experience spirituality in different ways. And so now because the times are changing and you're dealing with this word called pluralism, you know, you know, religious pluralism. We are all growing. Buddhists can live right next door to you, You can work with the Muslim somebody in Islam, and so we're all having to understand how you can hold onto what you believe without damning, without demeaning, or without

diminishing what somebody else believes. So, real quick, can I just interject real quickly, one of the major issues that I had growing up as a as a child of God, because up in a Baptist Church was the belief that if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior, then everyone else you're going to hell. So for me, that was hard for me to wrap my mind around because I felt like there's so many other people in the world who probably have never been introduced to Jesus

Christ because they may believe in another religion. Say you're say you're Buddhist. You know, um, I know. Um. The Jews believe that Jesus Christ was maybe a prophet, but he isn't the son of God. So then my thought process growing up was does that mean that Jews are going to Hell? And I remember trying to ask questions growing up, and my the adults and my children look at me like, why would you even ask that question? And no one would give me an answer. So it

made me feel lost. What do you say to people now who who have those same questions you are looking for the right way to have a walk with God. First, I want to say, I want to apologize for all the people who were so fearful of a question that would upset their equilibrium that they silenced you. But the truth is if we walk by faith and not by sight. Then the very essence of faith suggests I have to

ask questions because I don't have certainty. So yeah, yeah, faith in his answers means there's no certainty, right, and so that that there are elements where as we walk with God, as we journey where God. God is not often intimidate. God has never intimidated by our questions, but the people who speak for God sometimes are intimidated by questions, and so we try to silence people. But what I want to say is it is nobody's place to determine an eternity for anybody. My walk with God is my walk.

I believe that Jesus Christ I acknowledge him, is my Lord and Savior. And because I know who Jesus is for me, I invite people to journey with Jesus if that's what you choose to do. But I don't spend my time, you know, bashing other faiths and other faith traditions, because for those people, that's real for them, that's that's that's real for them. And while they may experience the

Holy that way, I experienced the Holy my way. I think, Um, instead of us getting caught up in the name, why don't we all just find a way to learn to love each other affirm each other, and they are basic principles that are true and transcending in all faith traditions. You can't limit joy just to Christianity. You can't limit justice just to Christianity. You can't limit peace and understand

and being affirming and positivity just to one religion. So if we get down to the essence of all of these religions, which I taught religion in more House, I studied religion and more House, and to build all this stuff, if you get down to the essence of it all, they're all trying to say the same thing. That's what we saw, that's what we came to. I'm telling you passed away. We were in college and we were studying religion, and we studied Islam. We studied you Days, and we

studied Christianity simultaneous. It was one of those things that when we started dating, we knew that we it was going to be the core of our relationship and our marriage one day. So we wanted to get on the same page about it. And we realized and talking to each other that we had so many um similar beliefs. But it was just a different way of teaching that it kind of came across to us. I remember, and I spoke about this on a former podcast that we did when I first met a Vault and I brought

him home. Um, my family whose Seven Day Indventists says in raising the West Indies on both sides, my parents particularly weren't as strict in the following of the teachings and the rules that went with Seven Day Inventist because there are a lot of those. Um. However, I did have an aunt who is a devout you know, Seven Day Adventists and very you know, um serious about her walk. She said to me like, oh, he's a nice guy,

but he goes to church on the wrong day. And I was like, there's a wrong day to go to church. And that really just like was off putting for me because I'm like, okay, so he's a nice guy from an amazing family and all that, but the fact that he goes to church on a Saturday, not of Sunday, I mean on a Sunday, not of Saturday, was reason for her to be like, I don't know, you know, and to me, that was very disheartening. So that what that's what led us to do these religion courses to

really try to seek for ourselves what was happening? You know what? What what is it that we wanted to believe? Believe in? Religion is too often put labels, limits and lids on people. Yes, labels, limits and lids so so and the whole time the only al we're supposed to be exhibiting is love. Like I just read before I jumped on here with you all this scripture and John thirteen,

one of my favorite scriptures. Jesus is like, they will know your my disciples by how you love right there at the end of John chapter thirteen, Like forget all the other stuff. He's like, they're gonna know that you rock with me because of how you love each other. Like love one another. That's this is the new commandment. So I know you can quote the Ten Commandments. I know you can quote all the law and all that stuff. He's like, I got one. I got a new commandment

for you love one another. Do you know how much stuff we can solve in the world if we could get down to the what my grandma will call the treaty gritty. That's true, that is true. This is what we struggle with a lot, because we want our boys to to grow up with love in their heart. You know, one thing that people say all the time is that they can notice our oldest son who's nine, that he has a lot of empathy towards other people. That you can tell that how other people feel matters to him.

And what I feared growing up was putting him into a church environment where that that loss and empathy is gone, because now it becomes a judging thing where you look at people to see who's sinning, and you start counting sins. Because I remember a point where, you know, when you at nine and ten years old, you start to understand what the ten commandments are, and you start to understand

what's right and what's wrong. You start to look at people differently, and every time you see somebody, you see a sinner, you know, And I feared putting them in that element to where now they grow up just looking at people at at faults. How many faults did you commit today? So you know, my question to you is where does faith lie in the nuclear family, especially the nuclear black family, when it comes to how do you raise your children and how do you pick a significant other?

Where does faith lie on that list? And to double down on that, how have you seen faith in religion? I guess change from generation to generation, meaning from our parents or grandparents generation to us and the now us raising children today. You know that is a deep question. We need two hours version, but yeah, I'm gonna give you from give you some foot notes and the cliff note. So, my my grandparents faithful people, um, you know, very faithful

grouping church. My mother, my father again another generation of Christianity and I kind of inherited the faith initially and then I made a decision in college to stay with the faith. Um, we're my generation, some of these millennials and younger people, we're not as rigid in our beliefs, like we will listen to Cardi B And turn on gospel in a matter of two minutes past oh oh my god. Because for us, we've really embraced some Africa can traditions and that is there is no separation between

secular and sacred. That that that it's been a diffusion over time between sacred and secular because the truth is it's all sacred. African traditions, particularly in our community, give us space to say they're sacred and everything, Like you can hear a rapper get up and get an award and he just cussed and called girls bees and ages, and he wins an award for his song, and he'll get up and say, hey, y'all, I just want to

thank God for giving me this gift. And we're like, well, but but it's very profound because he does not separate God giving him a gift to what is song and maybe perpetuating in his music, Like even if it is kind of edgy, even if I did cuss, even if I did throw some stuff in, it might be you know, looked at as secular or or risk ay or even profane. I know God gave me the gift to wrap. I know God gave me this gift from music. So there's

no separation. So you can see younger people saying I'm gonna go out here to work, enjoy myself at the club and I and I'll go to church the next day, and like God is and all of this, and absolutely, I really think my generation and our age group, we're like, no, don't don't try to separate what's secular and sacred for us, it's all sacred and God is in it. All our older generation they were more. This is how you dress, this is how you talk. You have to marry this person.

You can't love you know, same gender loving relationships. Oh no, the Bibles against it, and we're like, but y'all do know God, it's too big to be little. We do know that God is love and you can't control people and that so science has impacted us. Uh, updates and research has impacted us. People are growing, people are evolving, and some people are against it. But the newer generation, I think, are saying, Hey, God is so big, so loving.

Let's stop judging people by who they love, how they dress, how they talk, what they believe, and let's be bigger than that. Jesus is too big to be little either. So I don't know if they answered your question. Let me go and one more thing, specifically about your children. I understand how I've talked to so many couples my age, like, what do we do? You know? I want them to come into their own I want them to believe on

their own whatever they choose to believe. At the same time, if you lay a foundation UH in Christianity, the best of Christianity is what we give our children. You know what I'm saying? It's just the basics grace, love, mercy, giveness. So Christianity at his best is what we can instill in our children. And even if you know you are choose, you all a free now, so you can choose another

faith tradition. I'm not here to judge. I will raise my children in a Christian setting because the best of Christianity is what helped me build my foundation and I believe that up with child now, when they get to certain moments on their journey, I can say, hey, let's talk about this. Let's wrestle with this, because it's gonna come.

It's gonna come organically. So when it comes organically and attention hits to two rows diverge into the woods, as Robert Frost said, you can stand there and help them negotiate that. Am I making any sense? No? You are. No, You're absolutely making a lot of sense. And I'll tell you what what made the most sense for me. We're taking notes and whatnot. I'm gonna have to listen to

this episode again myself. Does these these four words that you said, grace, love, mercy, and forgiveness on this podcast, If there's one thing people heard heard me say a lot is grace. I always talk about giving your parents, grace, giving each other, but love, mercy and forgiveness, and also

um not separating between sacred and secular. What what I think that allows people to do is to not feel isolated and judged while trying to go through their walk the current of what you know allowed because growing up in Flatbush, Brooklyn, our church was in the middle of the hood, so there were a lot of people, people who only knew a secular lifestyle, who felt uncomfortable coming into church because they feared that they wouldn't be accepted, and me being kind of like a bridge between those

folks and the church folks because my father was a deacon, my my aunt, my uncle were all pastors and ministers. I could see both sides. So that's what made me kind of realize that there has to be something different than the rigid traditions that existed, you know, back in the day. But that but that leads me to a question.

You look at faith right now in politics right and you see where we are in politics, and you can see, you know, all the Trump supporters are using Christianity is their way to say the reason, you know, where the solid Christian conservative people and they're leaning on faith in religion is the reason why they'll continue to vote this way. But then also if you look at you know, our side Black Lives Matter, is that faith is what makes us believe that you have to treat all people equally.

How is it that two people can be so polar opposite and use Christianity as the reason why they believe and what they believe, Like, can you talk about because I had Jackson asked me this question, my son, nine years old, because he saw we were watching them. We were watching CNN and they were a Trump rally and a dude had a cross on his shirt and he talked about God. And then Jackson, now, just like most people, when he sees and make America Great Again hat, he

automatically assumes that that person is racist. You know. It's like, it's so it's so bad that we do this to our own, that we do this to people. You know, you just everyone is monolithic. You got on the red hat, you're racist, you got on a BLM hat. Then you're a socialist, you're a Marxists. Is bad, It's terrible. But I was trying to explain to him that you can be you can be a Christian but have different political views.

What are your thoughts and how would you explain to children about being a Christian or being anything and still having different political views and the people who may agree that God is the one. But the best way I can explain is simply I would explain to a child. And I did this to my students at moor House. I held up a bottle of water and I had him stand in different parts of the room and I said, now, what do you see where from where you're standing, and

what do you see from where you're standing? And some saw the the Shauny label, some saw the ingredients on the back, some on this side saw that the bottle was recycled. I said, now, depending on where you're standing impacts what you see. But what we all need, regardless of what you see, is the water on the inside. Yeah. And so what happens is if I'm white, my context

is gonna influence what I see. If I'm black from the South Side of Chicago, that impacts how I If I'm a woman, if I'm a black woman, that impacts It's called your social location. So if I'm doing even in religion, even even when you read the Bible. You bring your story, you bring your experiences to the text, and so me, as a black preacher, I don't preach the Bible like a white preacher would. Who has been, who's experienced privilege, and who's experienced Uh easy, go with life.

I'm from Lathonia, Georgia. I'm from the South. Uh So I I see God as a liberator. I see God from my context is one that gets on the side of the oppressed and struggles with us. And somebody else may see God is hey, God wants me to fight

for white people to stay in power. God wants me to fight for anti abortion laws, and God wants me so depending on where you're standing at the same time, what's going to heal this country is when, regardless of where you're standing looking at the label on the bottle of water, when we're all able to humble ourselves and listen to each other and and hear each other out, and say, tell me what you see from where you're standing, and then I'll tell you what I see from what

I'm standing. Because until we're able to hear each other, listen to each other, there will be no healing in this country. You know what that that right, there is the the explanation. Because we were talking about the different forms of religion when it came to Islam, Judaism, Christianity, and we all kept saying, it sounds like they all praying to the same God. But depending on where they were in the globe during the times, the stories were

a little bit different and even open to interpretation. You interpret it based off of your own life perspective. Where you were standing, that's what you saw. So if you're a Christian, when you looked at Jesus, you saw the Son of God. If you were Jewish, where you saw you to a prophet. If you were a Muslim, when you were watching Jesus, you saw a prophet. If you saw allow you to a prophet. So it doesn't mean

that they're all wrong or one is wrong. It's just where I was standing when I saw that made me see God. But it made me see God through this perspective that that makes a lot of Sometimes your own lens, you gotta just wipe that fog off sometimes and be like, oh, I see that a little blurry, but I see and and and let me tell you what's so beautiful is when you know what changed my opinions about even people in the LGBTQ community, because they're standing where they're staying.

I stand where I stand when I'm able to finally see them as human beings and not an object and not a subject and not a topic a spectacle. And when and when people able to see us in other races it's not just a subject. But when I'm able to finally one day walk over to them and saying, now, tell me what you see from your place, and they explain it. And then they walk over to me and I said, now, this is what I see from where

I'm sitting. Do you understand the kinds of record, the kind of reconciliation, the kind of of understanding, the kind of grace, Come on, grace that we would end up, the grace that we would give everybody, because at the end of the day, regardless of your race, your religion, your gender, your sexual orientation, we all need some water to quench our thirsty souls. I don't care who you are.

Everybody needs water. And that's why the example of the water bottle was so powerful, because like you need what's on the inside, we need the main thing that keeps all of us alive and that's water. And you can call that God, call that spirit, call that divine, call it what you wanna call it, but you need it. Well. I think it's amazing about what you've been saying a couple different things. UM, is that you meet people pretty

much where they are. And I come from a background where, you know, there's a lot of evangelizing that happens, and that we had crusades where they're like trying to convert the masses and you know, trying to see allowing people, getting people to see what you see and buy into it. Um. And for me, I remember feeling as a child being in a Sabbath school or you know, going to these crusades that were happening during the week and the summertime, and they're just trying to like, you know, convert as

many people as possible. And there was like a pressure that I had sitting in the chair, like Okay, do I get up and go up now or or do I not remember one time trying to go up and my mom was like sit down and I was like, well, wait, okay, do you want me to be here and be a seven day adventus? Do you want me to sit down and just be here because I'm here. I also remember feeling the almost shame sometimes sitting in the pews and

feeling like the pastor was like talking at me. I remember very vividly one Sunday, Saturday, I went into church and I um had on a little like you know, business suit that I was wearing, you know, no air rings. No, I actually had airrings in when typically seven day Adventus you're not supposed to wear airrings, so I had errings in my air. I had on a business suit that was fitting well. I had on some heels. I felt good.

I was like, I'm a show up for the Lord today because I was feeling good, and I remember sitting towards the middle of the church, the sanctuary, and the pastor started talking about like Jezebel and like also I just remember feeling really small because it's almost as if he was preaching at me in that moment um, and it talked about like material things and like out of our parents, and I just it's almost as if I felt like the walls of the sanctuary was closing in

on me and he was preaching at me. And I felt such a shame after that because I felt like, well, now They're not gonna want me to be converted into whatever it is. Or I had to convert myself into whatever it is they needed me to be to be able to sit in a church sermon for the day. Um, So would you say that you? I say all that to say, would you say that you are more about meeting people where there are and joining them they or is it about trying to evangelize and convert and spread

the word? How how does that look for you now as a millennial And how is it different now for you? How do you how do you preach differently? Yeah? I think that question is so profound. Um. You know one of my mentors said, preaching doesn't convert people. And I was like, we all, look, what do you main Preaching doesn't convert. We were called to preach to convert. He said, no,

preaching doesn't convert. He said, what converts people is when they see your life and they see you deal with certain situations and they see God in you through your own struggle, through your own humanity. Hm. It blew my mind because because even Jesus said, even when Jesus has described you know, for those that know the Bible, John

chapter one, he said and the word became flesh. Like what converts people in this day and time is when they're able to see the preacher and see you as human and see you dealing with the same stuff that they deal with, and you you push through it and you get through it and you're able to find God in it. Like that's how I that's how I am so right now, you know, I told the church a

few weeks ago during this pandemic, I've been depressed. I started going to therapy, and so on one end, I'm like, oh, my lord, I have told this church I felt with depression that I've told him I've had therapy. And you won't believe the number of people to hit me up, Black Pastor you just freed me. Thank you, because because

I've been depressed. I did a lesson on grief and and one of our friends, my wife and I as friends, who was in our wedding, she took her life four weeks ago, and I did a lesson on grief and I just was vulnerable. I'm like, y'all, this has been something to deal with, and so many people, like in the middle of a pandemic who ain't grieving, and grief

is not just about the grief is about loss. So when you lose is your normalcy, When you lose your routine, your rituals, the stuff that's sacred to you, your traditions. You can't go to church for some people, can't go to mass, whatever. Wherever you go, everybody is grieving. So what I've discovered and what I love about this question is what has converted people for me is not me bamming, banging people upside the head saying you better believe Jesus.

It's me saying, hey, let me tell you what God has done for me. Let me tell you what Jesus means to me in my suffering and my tears, in my low moments, in my high moments. And if you relate to that, I want you to come join me on this journey of humanity. And yes, and that has converted more people for me than me saying you're going to hell if you don't believe it. I believe that. But here's another thing, because what you just spoke on is the reality. People tend to follow other people who

show their humanness. They don't stand from a place of conviction and say you're bad. Your soul is deemed someone you should. We've experienced that even with the content that we create and the stories we put out and that we tell through our our platform. You know, we're just like, Hey, we're just like any other like married millennial couple of trying to raise these kids and figure your life out, and here's what we're going through, and a lot of

people can relate. The more real you become, the more people tend to follow you because they understand that if this person is going through it and I go through it too, I could learn how they deal with what they're going through. But this leads me to a huge question, which is the business of faith, Because the business of faith is what terms a lot of people off. And I'm not gonna lie. It has turned me off. You know.

I grew up in a church, Selar Missionary Baptist Church in Flatbush, Brooklyn, where the pastor, Pastor Boyd, he grew a twenty million dollar church from nothing from nothing all but by his business acumen he was able to do things and use the resources from the congregation to build it. But in the church he was able to provide resources to the community, which is why you understand why the church has to be a business. Because you're also providing resources.

But then if you look, now there's megachurches, churches worth hundreds of millions of dollars, but then there's people in the congregation who don't have much. And it makes you wonder, how is it that a pastor can live in abundance, have a private jet, have a twenty million dollar home, and have all of these things, but then have people in his flock who have nothing and you have nowhere for them to go. For example, remember the hurricane hit.

The hurricane hit in Houston, and who's the I forgot the name of the preacher, but as a white preacher, but he refused to open up the doors of his church. Okay, good thing, I can remember. But it was on. It was on, It was on media takeout and it was on it was on TV. And it was just like, you have your church the size of a stadium. There's a hurricane, people in your flock have nowhere to go, and you refuse to open the doors of the church. Isn't that what the church is for? So that made

me think, well, there goes the business of faith. The business of faith has become a money grab to a lot of people. How do you tell people how to deal like, how do you teach your people how to deal with the business of what faith has become? Well, I simply put, I just tell them the church. Um, there is business that the church handles, but the church is not a business. It's all it's all about and and and and it differs for different people, you know.

For me, I don't leave my church as a business. It's a ministry. But I know, but I know, just because we have business to handle does not mean we are a business business. Yeah, And that's how I've done it. And then I think, too, we cannot allow the greed and the excessive lifestyles of a few to make us think that everybody is doing that, because I promise you the majority of pastors, uh, they are not millionaires. They do not have enough money or even the desire to

buy a private jet. But I think the ones that get the attention, the ones they get depressed, those are the ones I know. So many pastors right now through this pandemic, are are every week with their fingers crossed praying they can keep their doors open because they don't have They don't they want to do ministry on a major level, but they're but they're struggling because if you want the ministry to go forth, you do need money.

And so what I wanna do is just give a shout out to the UH, the, the the, not the mega ministries, but the ministries that are doing mega ministry. You know what I'm saying. It's it's a difference, like I don't have to be a mega church to do mega ministry, and and so there are something that are trying to do that, and then the pastors, we cannot be caught up in it in our own flesh are greed leaders is we have to remember that God put us in place to care for people, not for the

people to pack our pockets. We're here to be a blessing. And so I'm very you know, shout out to the one of the greatest churches on this side of Heaven, Fellowship Chicago. I'm so proud that in the middle of a pandemic, we donated twenty thousand dollars to the food depository here in Chicago. We gave raid fifty dollars plus

to twenty high school graduates. We gave we gave every high school graduate who applied on time two thousand dollars towards their their journey in college and in the military. So every Wednesday we gave food away for free. Partner with the Food Depository, opened up our food pantry and gave over three thousand families food between the months of

March and July. You see that to me is that to me is where the church is a business but has to be a business in a way, because in order to be a nonprofit organization, you have to run it as a business. The church I grew up in Sealle Missionary Baptist Church, this man did so much for the community. Past the pastor Boyd Man, He's he's one of my favorite people in the world. He christened our first child and he blessed him and in his in

his home. But he was so smart because he was able to use his influence and not only just give money back, but also to be influenced in political realms to say, you know what, if you want to have access to my flock or you wanta have access here, this is what we're gonna need from you. And I think in times like this there are a lot more churches that could be doing a lot more when it comes to the political realm. Because I do ask this question, where are all the huge like we have in the

back in the day. We should have a lot of political leaders who were pastors right nowadays as a lot of social activism. But I don't see the same political power from our our faith leaders. And I wonder where it's gone, especially these faith leaders who have these huge,

mega churches. How do we not hear from these these men and women who have these huge followings who make a ton of money to say, you know what, we need legislation to be changed, and I'm going to be in the forefront of that even if it's not you know, I have to go on TV and say it. But why is it not getting done? Because I knew that's what was part of the church I grew up in. I know that Pastor Boyd had people in political office where he could say, Hey, something is going wrong with

this precinct. We need to have this conversation. What has happened to having the relationship with political leaders? And absolutely, I mean Dr Martin Luther King was a pastor. You know, he was before anything else, you know, before Reverend Dr Martin Luther King Jr. He's a reverend. He used his ability to speak to people in lead a flock to

to get us access. You know what I'm saying. If you think about Malcolm X. Malcolm X is a part of the Nation of Islam, which was a religious group, and I'm just wondering where is that in That's why I asked the question. His faith kind of dissipated. You know, you know, you know. It's a powerful book exactly on what you're talking about. It's called Where Have All the Profits Gone? By a great scholar by the name of

Dr Marvin McMichael. And he wrote this book as if to say, you know, where of all the profits gone? Where are all the people who are supposed to be on the front lines fighting for God's people and speaking truth to power? So he writes, he writes this book maybe ten plus years ago, and I think it'd be great for to answer your library, where have all the profits gone? And to be honest with you, a lot of our profits, a lot of our leaders who could be on the front lines. I hate to say it,

but we've been bought. We've been bought, and and and and when cash, when cash means more to you than Christ, When when your priorities And I've heard a powerful leader say this once. He says, I want to be able to function in all jungles, so I don't say things that are divisive. I don't want to make I don't want to make this group upset. And I don't want to make this group upsets. No, no, no, you don't. So so the sin watch this. Now, I'm about to

get real deep, but I'm gonna make a light. One of the greatest sins of our culture is the sin of neutrality. Yes, you just you know, you just yeah, you're just neutral. You're right in the fence. No, that comes a day where you have to get off the fence and take a stance. And if everybody didn't agree who I was about to say something I was about to say. I was about to say, hey, these but

what they feel? Yeah, I mean because because that wasn't Jesus, Like, I'm a Christian, so just excuse me for speaking out of my faith tradition. Jesus took stances like he ticked off. He Rome was after him, the Jews were after him, like everybody was trying to shut this man down because he didn't care about your position, your power, your platform, your privilege, whatever, if it was wrong, if it was unethical, if it was a moral, if it wasn't helping people,

Jesus wanted it. And I'm in that faith tradition. That's Jesus. Jesus was a gangster like he was. He wasn't with the foolishness and uh and that's where I am. And so I take people off all the time. But I love it. Come back here. We've barely scratched it. We have bach. I mean, I was even looking through some questions we have here for you that we don't even have time for in this episode. But I love to have you back. I'm here, you know. And that's your wife.

Buy you another dope T shirt? Um, made a different thing now that you get our vibe, you know what I mean? And it could be it'll be a vibe, but it'll be a whole vibe. But we're normally doing this letters um during our episodes where people right in and they have questions. Do you mind sticking around with us for another five ten minutes so we can just

address these questions real quick. Let's do it all right? Awesome, So we're gonna take a quick break and move into listener letters, but we'll be back and we will have Reggie with us. Past to Reggie, you know, he'll be back with us to answer some of your questions. So let's get into these ads and stick around. All right, So we're back. We paid some bills because this is a business. Um, this is a podcast, so we had to pay some and we're back to the favorite part

of the show. We still have passed the redge with us. So I'm gonna get into the listener letters. We have one here. How do I tell my family and friends I no longer believe in adventis um or most things beyond the core Christian values. I was born and in the Seven Day Advantage Church, and my family has been in the church from multiple generations here in the West Indies. Both my spouse and I come from extremely involved families who are strong in their faith and church ministries, and

many of them will be heartbroken. Our fear is how coming out as agnostic might damage our relationships with our families. For people who don't know what agnostic means, that means that they don't know whether there is a God or not a God. They're not taking a stance on whether God exists or not. They're just like I'm not sure. Um, we're otherwise really close to them, but I know we're hiding part of who we really are by hiding our

lack of faith. We have no problem going to church or sharing in religious practices, and we do want to expose our children to it. But I know we're hiding who we really are by hiding our lack of faith. Should we rip the band aid or slowly expose our truth? Pastor reg what you think? I think that's a great question. Um. Whenever we go through personal evolutions, whether it being our faith, in our lives and our relationships, it is always a

painful process. But I want to tell this person, standing your truth, and whenever you choose to be authentic, whenever you choose to be authentic, you attract the people you need in your life. Whenever you choose to be false or faith or pretending, you attract the people who want you for who they think you are. But you don't need the people in your life who want you because of what they think you are. You need the people

in your life for who you really are. And only when we choose to be authentic, only when we choose to stand in our truth and accept that hey, this is an evolution. I don't know if I'll end up here, but this is where I am right now. Hopefully our family, our friends, and those who love us don't stop their love or cease their love because we are in a place of evolution. I have a friend that left the Baptist church and now she is I want to say, seven day of Venice. She so, she grew up Baptist

and now she's seven day of Venice. And you were scared to tell me because we grew up together. And I said, don't you know I still love you regard I said, if you come to me tomorrow and tell me you're atheist, I still love you. And tears almost almost well up in her eyes. I know you're my friend, you're my sister, and what you choose to believe will not impact my love for you. So hopefully you're met

with somebody who will love you through your evolution. That that that little life tip there can work with any aspect of your life, whether it's not just religion, sexual orientation, political values. Allowing people to accept you for who you really are rather than trying to be their version of who they want you to be, will give you peace. Or who think you all will give you peace. That's dope.

And also not taking it personally. You know, I have a really I had a really great friend who, in her walk with finding out her relationship with the Lord UM, totally excommunicated herself for me. UM, and I for a long time struggled with why or what I've done to deserve to be outcasts and I I was really backtracking. I was doing a lot of the reaching out. She was just like a whole listen to let it right here, UM.

But it was like, you know, I was like, UM, really trying to figure out what I did to to cause a detriment to this relationship. And I even reached out to some of her family and they're like, don't take it personally, kidding, because she's pretty much removed herself from us as well, and she won't attend certain family functions and she won't do certain things because her her vision right now is one, you know, one way and

one dimensional, and she sees nothing else. So I kind of had to step back and respect the fact that I would no longer be a part of her life, even though I know I had nothing but genuine love for her. UM. I thought she was an amazing person. I felt like we could have grown together and you know all that, but I had to respect the fact that she no longer wanted to to participate in our relationship, and that was hard for me to deal with in

the beginning. But I just you know, I didn't judge her for it, and it was hurt full in the beginning for me. But I've learned that maybe I'm not supposed to be a part of her life or a part of her walk for whatever reason, and I had to just kind of kind of eat that. You know. Another great book is The Four Agreements. That's my favorite book. Oh man, that's that's my book, and my wife loved it. We can tell everybody about it. But my favorite agreement

is don't take it personally. People are on their journey and you cannot You can't take people's evolutions and transitions personally. There you go, man, we got a lot of a lot of synergies me and you passed away. Let me tell you. And I'm not gonna lie. I have I lost faith for lost faith in faith leaders? I did.

I I felt I went through a transition. And it's funny when you talked about going through a transition and understanding that people are going through transitions, so maybe at this point in her life she may be agnostic, but understanding that she may not stay agnostic. I went through a transition in my life where I did not trust any faith leaders. I was like the crooks that come in, they're they're all selfish, and but it wasn't even just them, it was just people in general. I felt that all

people were crooks, income and not don't trust anybody. And I was reading the Four Agreements and I came across not taking things personal and understanding enlightenment, and I ended up I wrote, actually wrote this down, but this is what I came up learning to accept that religion requires and understanding that you are you are looking to become enlightened when you're when you're looking for really you're looking

become enlightened, right, But enlightenment doesn't mean you're understanding that you know more than others. It's understanding that other people know more than you. So sometimes you have to change your position. You may know more than this person, but when you're really enlightened, you realize that I may know more than this person, but I don't know as much as that person, so let me change my perspective and seek that. That's when I really started to change my

idea about judging people. And you know what I'm saying, So speaking to you today has has kind of solidified my strength in knowing that I can trust people who are faith leaders because you don't hear I don't hear many faith leaders speak like this. You know, typically it's and and it may be where I'm listening to faith leaders, but typically it's very rigid. Oh they're agnostic, their atheists, they're sinners. You need to separate yourself from that type

of people. It almost become a cult. Like you know, if they don't believe what you believe, cut that person out like a cancer, because you want to remove all of that toxicity. The minute someone doesn't agree with you, they're toxic and listening to you speak, it's more like, no, just because someone doesn't believe the same thing you believe, you can give them grace to learn why why they think that way, and let's see what we can figure

out together. So the Lord makes no mistakes and there's a reason why other guests maybe didn't pan out for today, and we were able to end up with Pastor Reggie, because I know, in me seeking some things recently in my own life, I think I might have found you, might have gained you a old new member, you know, seriously wary. I mean, I'll tune in because together we were thinking about where to go when we were figuring this out, and we were just like, who are we

going to bring on the show. And it wasn't until I was was reaching out to people this don't work, that don't work in and Charles was just like, you know, my passes dope, and it's like, well, loose up. And then he's been dope. He sent me a page And now, look, things don't happen by accident, not by accident, so I think there's no coincidences. I mean, we had an amazing time with you. We normally like to end the episode,

like we said, with a moment of truth. We normally will give our perspective on what we take away from the episode. But I feel like, given the flow that we've had, we'd love to you for you to give us I guess some parting words. Give us a devotion, Yeah, you know, give us a devotion out you know than you know y'all of my new family members I can't wait to meet you in person. I can't wait to just sit down and have dinners winter time because we heard about that. So she does not like the code, Well,

I'll come, We'll come to y'all. We'll come to y'all. Word but uh but but let me just say this. A lot of people have lost faith, so much faith and faith and leaders that they don't even seek us out for the real hard questions, the real existential questions that everybody wrestles with. And I want to say on behalf of all faith leaders, UM, I want to apologize. I want to say that we you know, I repent and um, and I'm more cognizant that we have a

lot of work to do. We have to make sure that we're caring for the whole person, caring for people's mental health, caring for people's physical health, caring for people enough to give them space to grow develop. Uh relearn unlearned. And I want to say that as we journey together, Um, the beautiful part about nature is that it teaches us a lesson. The sun rises, sun goes down, Clouds come, clouds dissipate, um, weather comes, snow comes, rain comes. All

of this weather comes. But everything is passing, and so even in this pandemic, except that nature is a teacher, and that we are learning how to change with the times. Except that seasons come and seasons go. But if you stay strong in the essence of all of these faith traditions, if you keep your joy, work on keeping your peace, work on being the change you want to see. Work on being loved, not just loving, be loved, be peace, be be understanding, purport yourself and present yourself as a

person that exudes these principles. Man, it'll be so many people running to you, no matter what faith tradition you have, because every time they're in your presence, they will feel better about themselves because they've crossed your path. So instead of critiquing everybody else, work to become a person that's worth listening to. Work to become a person that's worth beings. Saw that you know, you know and I may really you know. We we can critique everybody else, we can

we have a we have a judgment on everybody. But stop all that look within, work on yourself and let God get the glory. Speak to me eyes no no, no crying that they don't cry A little moved you know we appreciate you, bro. Please tell everything they can find Yes, please tell everybody that they can find you. Hey, follow us and Fellowship Chicago every Sunday attend am the Virtual Ship. We are known as the Virtual Ship is taken off on YouTube. Facebook, follow us on Instagram and

Fellowship Chicago. Follow me on Instagram at r W. Sharp Junior. Um, I am on Facebook. I need to become public, so just give me a minute on that because I'm running out of I'm running out of space for new friends with Drake's Yeah, Drake said no new friends, so I guess I'm following that right now. But but I'm on Instagram. Follow me on Instagram at r W. Sharp Junior and follow us a Fellowship Chicago and I can't wait the journey with you sounds amazing. Episode. I want your cash,

happy Venmo, your quick paypals. I can say I got I got some some words today. So thank you again so much for joining us, Um pastor Reginald Sharp. Wait, I'm missing your middle name, Reginald Wayne R. Sharp Junior. All right now, thank you so much. Be blessed, love to your family and thank you for thank you for

chilling with us Today. Dead As is a production of I Heart Media podcast network and is produced by Dinorapinia and Triple Follow the podcasts on social media at dead as, to podcasts and never miss a Thing