The Birds And the Bees?!

listen to see you by, Hey, what's good job? We recorded these episodes before all the news about COVID nineteen broke. We wanted to let you know that we're here for you and we hope that you enjoyed these episodes and they can bring you a little bit of joy and escape in these uncertain times. I don't know how I'm gonna talk to our boys about sex. You stole my sound by because I was gonna say the same thing. Well,

dead ass, who's gonna talk to him? He and Elis we may know us from posting funny videos without boring and reading each other publicly had a form of ray I'm making me dead most dates. And one more important thing to mention, we're married, Yes, so we are. We created this podcast, an open dialogue about some of life's most taboo topics, things most folks don't want to talk about through the lens of mommonial Mattie Couples. Dead ass is the term that we say every day, but we

say dead as we're actually saying facts. One hun the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. We're about to take stilt talk to a whole new lever started. Now. Alright, guys, this story time it's gonna be extremely short because it is the microcosm of my sex education experience in my household. Right. So, at this time, at fifteen, I was still exploring but not really having sex consistently. So I had a couple of girlfriends, you know, we were doing some things. I was,

you know, sophomore in high school. I was a late bloomer, so I was still like very very young. Um, I looked very young, but I was still trying to figure out, like, what is this thing everybody's talking about? And I had no one to really tell me. Um. One morning, walk into my parents room to get socks and my dad goes, hey, I said what he said, you know, I keep my condoms. I was like yeah, and that bottom drawer. He was like, all right, that was my sex education experience. The end.

I remember my uncle Kevin gave me a similar speech. Um. The speech went like this, YO, when it rains, make sure you got your rain boots on. Metaphor. That was it. That was it. That was it. But no one really talked to me to details about sex, and I kind of ended up figuring it out on my own, speaking to some older, older cousins and older dudes I looked up to, and I ended up figuring it out and then, um, now you're a pro. Three kids later, I should be

a hope you know what you're doing. Mine was very kind of awkward, you know, because my mom tends to be very awkward with like uncomfortable conversations. So at school, of course, because that's generally where you start hearing things. People start talking about, you know, sex and this and that and body parts. So I remember saying to my mom one day, like, so people talking about sex at school?

Was that? And I was round about thirteen, um, which I'm thinking nowadays it's probably really late to have a conversation about sex, extremely late now with access to Instagram and you too. And then she started forcing the conversation came up also too, with like knowing your body and like when your period was going to come. So she ended up getting me a book that was kind of like talked about the body, menstruation, all that stuff, and then it kind of touched on sex a bit, and

she's like, read the book and we'll discuss it. But the discussion was very kind of vague, vague, and I just have to kind of figure things out on my own. Knowing my mom, you know how she was sweating bullets having this conversation with me. So things have to be different with our boys. So Kay picked this song baby Ahead. You're gonna start it off for us. I think we should. It's so fitting, it's so fitting. Let's talk about sex bait.

Let's talk about you and me. Let's talk about all the good things and the bad things that make me. Let's talk about sex. Let's talk about Hey, Hey, let's talk about sex. Let's talk about sex. Hey, we're talking about sex. That's the record already. No, we talk about sex openly and often on this podcast. Yes, we talk about it in our relationship. Our Sex Drives even had an expert on the show to help us spice up our sex lives. So that's an ongoing topic for us.

But now that we have to prepare the way our boys approach sex eventually and sexuality as they get older, UM, we have to have a different talk. And because de Val and I are both shook over this conversation, we felt the need to bring somebody in to help us get a clear explanation on how we can talk to our boys about sex and sexuality. We brought in an expert, Miss Antoinette Sully. Hey girl, I thank you for having what one of my favorite characters from Monsters Inc. It's

Scully's best Scully Scully X files bad. Okay, I still so. Antona is a mother, an entrepreneur, and the co founder of more Than sex Ed, which is an organized organization which mission which oh gosh, let's say that again. Antona is a mother, an entrepreneur, and the co founder of more Than sex Ed, an organization whose mission it is to provide a comprehensive, inclusive, and fact based, very important understanding of human sexuality to children across l A. So welcome, Antoinette,

thank you so much for joining us today. I mean, after Devottle his story and I told my story clearly there's this uncomfortable situation that occurs whenever parents have to talk to their children about sex. Do you think that's common? Do you in your expertise have you come across those scenarios where you kind of had to intervene maybe to

help parents like us give our children the talk. Yes, I think that it is so important that we start early, but because most people don't want to start early, I mean like early, like as soon as your child starts to identify body parts early, that's like three, because already knows his stuff and stuff and your stuff. In fact, I know that we don't have similer stuff. Yeah, sure, that's one of the first things. Is your opposite gender children would be like, oh, that's different than what I have.

So clearly there's levels to this whole thing. Of course, yes, yes,

you don't dump, You don't dump at all, right, right, right? So, um, would you say that there's kind of like a natural succession with ages that okay, age groups you know, say three to five or like you know, six to eight, that there's certain conversations that should be had or do you kind of wait to see what your children brings your way, or how do you kind of a little bit of both, right, And I think one of the things that I like to tell parents and that we

or to stick to is answer the question you're being asked, So don't provide any extra, but don't don't assume that the extra information is what they're looking for. Sometimes it's very much they have a very specific question, and once they get the answer to that, they're totally fine. And it doesn't have to go that cut and dry too deep. Um. You know, if they're asking where do babies live, you know they're not asking for like the whole process. You

know what's funny. I'm not afraid to speak to my kids about sex. I'm not afraid at all. I'm just afraid of telling them the wrong information at the wrong time. That's really what I feel like. I have I talked about everything to everybody, so speaking to my kids about sex is not really taboo to me. But I think it's just the idea of my children eventually having sex one day. I don't think it's a talk, but I'm just like, oh my god, these little penises that my

body grew. Eventually they're going to hear this that they can't do that to them. I like grew these little people with penises and then eventually they're going to be like out there having sex. Like that just makes me shook to the course, Well, let's dial it back on it. Tell us how you got involved in sex education, because clearly there's a market for that, it's very important. UM. So how did you get involved with it? Um? And why is it so important for you to talk about

it um openly? I definitely fell into it. UM. I am a part of a church organization that created a sexual health curriculum, I mean like decades ago. Um. And so then in two thousand and fifteen, California announced that they were going to have to push sex said through through schools right like from elementary school all the way

to high school. UM. And awesome co founder and who's the e D right now of UM more than sex said she, Jill Herbertson, was actually really excited about being able to bring this curriculum that usually it is only given to privileged white people in these liberal churches, and push it out and make it more secular so that it can go out to schools across l A which is much more diverse than what usually you get in

a Unitarian church. And so because we were already working together, UM, I had already been trained on this specific program, this curriculum. It's called Our Whole Lives UM, and we call it OWL. So if I say OWL again, that's what I'm talking about, the curriculum UM. And so at that point we thought, well, how do we get this from our small little section to out into the cosmos because what people need it?

And that's where it UM. When we spoke to Melissa Fredericks UM Melissa well ms keV on stage, she talked about how she grew up in a very religious, strict religious background, and sex was so shaming that she felt like a deviant when she had questions, and and she grew up not knowing a lot about her body and about sex and didn't know how to even be a wife because she was still learning herself. Do you find that, you know, giving this information to young people, especially in

the child environment, is helping them? I do. Yeah. It gives people. It gives children a confidence in who they are because they can sort of work from the inside out. I guess you can think of it, UM and to understand like, oh, my body does this and it's not scary or gross. Or right, you know, we have all of these questions, um, and you're so afraid to ask anybody whether this is normal, that you sort of just sit in that silence, and it's a heavy silence, UM

that can go on for years. Or if it's not silence, it's maybe going to the wrong parties and maybe not getting the right information, or someone who just may not know or just may not have their best interest at heart. Right. I mean, most people talk to the people in their own age group. So high school kid is going to talk to another high school kids they don't have all the right information, then for sure, where are you going to go from there? Right? No, exactly. That's one thing,

my bad baby. That's one thing that I've learned mentoring young men, um Like for the last ten years, I mentor like hundreds of young men through Brooklyn through our sports performance program. But it was always a topic of

sex education, drugs, and alcohol. And what I have learned over the last ten years that the people they deemed to be deviant are people who lack knowledge and didn't have a safe space to talk about the things that they were wondering about, so they just tried things whenever they had a chance to, and then people labeled them as deviance. And then once they got labeled as deviant, they just existed in that label and said, well, I'm just bad because I'm bad, so I might as well

be bad. So it's funny to hear you talk about giving people as information. I think it may be smarter if we give our kids information earlier. Just like with the whole alcohol thing. My dad let me sip bear when I was young, So because I had access to do it and my father to leave wasn't like don't don't do it. I really had no need to go out and become, you know, a secret closet drinker because I knew I could sit it right there with my dad.

I feel like it's kind of the same, so it takes away the mystique around it, like oh my god, it stops being mysterious, and it also turns into something that is part of your common knowledge. Right Like if you start early and you talk to your kids about their bodies and then you talk to them about what their bodies are going to do and what that looks like over time, then it doesn't become some secret thing that happens all of a sudden when you're twelve for sure.

Let's go back to your story with your dad and your uncle and where that kind of left you with, you know, your knowledge about sex, Like where did you go to after that to then find out about it? Um? Well, well, at least at this point, I knew that I had to wear a condom because my uncle had My uncle had his first daughter, my cousin, Porscha, out of wedlock, and he made it very clear to me that if you if you want to raise a family the right way, you should be married and have a child. So he

made that clear. My dad made that clear. So I knew that condoms was a way to help prevent that. Um watching porn, you know, you you find out where the porn channels are, and you try to figure out what I gotta do. And I'm speaking to older, older people on my block, my older cousins, people that I looked up to that were a couple of years older

than me. I was a freshman in high school, and when I got to high school, that's when it was like middle school was when everybody was touching and doing stuff. Middle school right high schools, and people was like now I'm having sex, So now I'm fourteen, and I'm like, I gotta find out how to do this. So like where does it go? You know. So I'm a freshman and I'm asking seniors because I played sports. I'm like, okay, so I'm going to boust to team. He's on the

basketball team. Him and his girlfriend talk about sex, you know, I asked him pull him side, like so, you know, I never had sex before, Like what I what I gotta do? And though they'll you know, like, oh, you never had sex, and then they'll clown you forever. First they clown you for at least two years. They call you a virgin every day until you tell them that you had sex, improved that you had sex. But um, that's how I found out. It was old older dude

in my school. Yeah, very similar, Yeah, very similar. Yeah, the porn you know, older cousins. I remember one my cousins saying like, if you're ever going to do it, just make sure that he wears a condom. That was like the biggest thing. So I remember the whole banana and condom thing. I see that in like movies and it's everywhere, like just you know the accuracy of like the shape of the anatomy and whatnot. They come in different sizes. Is these bananas, but more or less you

have an idea of how to put them on. So that was like the main thing. UM. So you talk about sex education Antoinette and like, UM, the schools and at home? How important is it? Like do you ever see a disconnecting that when you do speak to children, you know, even in the church setting or something like maybe they don't speak about it at home, but it's offered in church. Like where do you think are the

appropriate spaces for that? UM? We hope that all of the spaces are inclusive enough to let kids say what they want and you know, always UM try and have at least one adult that they feel like they can come to and content to UM and feel safe around. I find that if kids don't really have that connection at home to open up, they won't feel comfortable with that connection at school either UM or even you know, extracurriculars.

My kids are in girl Scouts. I have girls, and so we find that that's also a space where a lot of the knowledge isn't there. And so then the parents are like, oh, I don't know if I want to talk about this now, and you know, if you're watching your kids girls and you're like, well, we got to talk about this sometimes, right, So but ultimately it's important to start feel letting feeling comfortable at home so they can feel comfortable somewhere else. And that's what we

always talk about. I want my children to feel comfortable talking to me about anything, even if they don't talk to me about sex. If they feel comfortable speaking to me, and I know that they're speaking to someone responsible, at least they're open talking about it. So that's the first thing. We have to make the kids feel comfortable. So you can't just scream at them all the time. Stuff. Well, no, I get it, I trust me. We we worked on

that in a previous episode about me. But I'll be trying, guys, I try, but I know where to come to sex. I don't want you to make the boys feel uncomfortable. No, no, no no, that that's that's a topic that I think I can be like that with you and Twing an end of out in the Space and y'all in the podcast universe. But when it comes to know my boys,

I definitely want that to be a thing. And like you said, knowing when to introduce certain things, So like, that's gonna be something important for us because knowing that we have three boys different ages, you have two girls, you know, making sure that we're not over answering, but at the same time to we're giving the appropriate information at the right time. Can I play Devil's advocate? I would like to introduce my boys to certain things before

they get another answer from somebody else. You know what I'm saying, your own children's maturity level two and what they can handle. But what I'm saying is is I don't want for them to ask me a question before I give them some information, because they may never ask the question and they may get the information from somebody else.

What do you think about that? I think if you give if you have a really nice foundation, right like if I'm on board with when your kids understand their body parts, having the correct names for it, right, and then you move that to consent, and you know who is allowed to touch you in what places, right like you sell have to change diapers, who's allowed to see you, what the doctors, And that is a precursor to how people interact when they have to deal with sexual context

and content and like that. And so I still find that a lot of parents want to get it out out real quick because they're like, oh, you're we're talking about it, let's talk about it. And what the kids are really talking about or really asking, is oh I had an idea about this one specific thing. Is it this thing? You know? They're looking they're looking to find

out whether their own feelings are validated. And so sometimes when we want to have those really tough conversations really quickly or too soon, it's not going to go anywhere anyway, because they're not going to have enough of the context to to really take it in. What you want to

talk about now? For sure? Is there like a book or something that I could like slide and introduced them, because so many they I mean once that I had for my kids and it was a little too soon, but it might be good for your ten year old. So I have a just turned six and an eight and a half year old. So we have an eight and a half. Well, Jackson will be nine in April, yeah, might will be nine. Yeah. Um my kids are super obsessed right now with baby babies and people having babies.

I do not want to have more babies. So they keep asking, oh, yeah, you like the same person. No, they keep asking let's and I'm like no, I'm I'm good. Um. But so we read a lot of these stories that are like, let's make a baby, and what's in there. It's about a family having another baby, and it talks about like the different gestational periods and different to which a baby actually gets there, which starts with sex. Most books at this age so do not start with sex.

They start with, hey, they need an egg and its firm. Babies happen, but we don't know how to get We don't know how to get you. Then they save that for maybe like the eleven and twelve year olds maybe exactly, and so there's get more complex. There is a book

called Let's Talk about Sex. It's really awesome. It's drawn, and so it's age appropriate for I want to say, ten thirteen and that sort of middle school like upper elementary, lower middle school age UM, where they're able to get these sorts of informations like oh, I feel this way and these are the body parts I have and this is how babies get where they get, you know, And so there are different stages and I think if you

start early, um, you can work on this. My my mom was the same I got a book, but start with the book for your three year old, right, and then of course have them read the books and then they'll ask you questions and you answer the questions asking, and then you continue that as they get a little

bit older. So now let's get to the teenage years. Okay, teenagers, but really four teenagers because I want you touched on it just a bit, and I wanted to say, like, you're the mother of two girls, we have the three boys. So the conversation about consent is extremely important to our children's future because consent is everything that's kind of the root of it. So it's like, Okay, we know the body parts, we know their differences, and then consent is next.

So how do we start to instill um our idea of consent or the idea of consent as an essential value for them so that it becomes second nature. So the way that we do it at home is we do consent with everything. So it's not just about sex or sex done it holes or body parts or whatever, but it's about everything, right, Like, oh, your sister doesn't want to be touched. She's saying no about her body, and I feel like that's one of the really standard ones. I'm saying no about my body in any way and

teaching boundaries and teaching boundaries yourself. Yeah, and so then that will extend to everything that they do. And I feel like that's one of the ways that we normalize sex, head that we normalize talking about sex, because we take consent to mean everything. Hey, you're drinking out my water glass. I'm saying no about my water glass possession in that, Yeah,

for sure. Yeah. I think that's huge because we often talk about molestation in our communities and how easy it is for a child to feel like they have to have I have to allow an older person access to their body. You know how you start with consent growing up, right? You know how your parents say, hey, give someone so a hug, and if you don't feel like giving him a like, did not tell you to allow your kids to not want to give people hugs young so they

can feel like they own their body. This way, when an adult says you're supposed to do X, y Z to me, you could be like, no, I don't have to. I feel like that's a very It's not a matter of being rude either. They just made you know what this challenge in this moment, does not want to hug you because they have their own reasons for not wanting to, you know, and sometimes children that they have tell tales,

you know, are their own. They something could puts potentially be happening with an adult that they don't feel comfortable with. You know, in the previous times, they may have had to give hugs and now they don't want to give hugs for whatever their reason is. So and I think I think that's like a societal issue where we allow adults access to our children too easily by just forcing them to do things that they don't want to do.

And if we can start by stopping that, I think that's that's the best thing we can do to protect our children, because I know I definitely I'm not doing that with we don't do the hugs, sitting on laps like that whole thing is Yeah, if you don't want to, then that's that's the mood he's in. And that's amazing because that's one of the first parts to consent is feeling like you have autonomy over your own person who and feeling like you can say no, this makes me uncomfortable.

I don't want to leave um, I don't want to sit here. Um, And those will help a you know, if a five year old can do it, you know, think of how how amazing they may feel when something is wrong in their fifteen and they want to say, hey, I don't like this and I wanted this to stop. Um. No, absolutely, it's amazing when you have your own kids, how differently you look at the world. Oh for sure, that didn't seem like a big deal. It's like, oh wow, there's

an actual life now you understand. Especially, you know, if I'm gonna say if, because I don't want to act like I have autonomy over your body. But if I have a daughter, right, baby taught me okay, so to that can pay your bills? Now, Um, she didn't come here for that kind of work. I mean, you put it on into that she ain't come for all that

she ain't go for the ax bill. But if I have a daughter, the first thing I will teach her is her right to say no to anybody or anything, because historically we have often made women feel as if they're acting strange when they don't want to smile or let someone be around them. And I remember seeing this as a young as a young person, you know, Smile your young lady, be happy, smile, give hugs. And then the slight thing, I gotta smile and give hugs all

the time. That leads to other things. And now that I have kids, and I always said to myself, when I have my daughter, I'm not making my and it wasn't until I had Jackson, who was a boy, and I remember trying to tell Jackson to say it, what's up to people? And Jackson didn't want to give fives at first, and I was kind of like, you don't gotta give you a fies. Then I started thinking, like, yo, if I had a daughter, when I tell my daughter to smile and give us and I'm like, no, I wouldn't.

And it's crazy how your kids change your perspective on the whole world. And now I look at people different, Like if I don't look at someone who doesn't hug, is weird no more? You know? And before I'm like, they don't give hugs, they're weird. Now usually if you meet someone and you go to hug them, they would like, I'm a hugger. It's all good, you know. And I'll say that sometimes because I'll go to hug someone naturally, and then if they're just not a hugger, maybe they'll

send the hand and I don't take offense. You know, I moved to l A. I had to change that to be like hugs or handshakes because people aren't. Do you think we should do that with our kids? We should, because I know I grab my kids, not kiss my kids like I grab. Do you know it's really funny I do, and I'll ask them like, hey, can I give you hugs? I mean it's not as often as I probably should um, but I find that they do

the same. So my oldest will come up to me and be like, hey, Mom, I'm feeling sad or I want some attention. Can I have a hug please? And that helps cut down on the running into my body tackle at the knees, yeah, or something else to my attention to tackle at the knees. You know how they say kids don't understand per s space. If you not forced, but allow your kids to ask permission to give you, as a parent, a hug, they'll understand personal space with

strangers and other people. Because I've met some people kids who have been right here and I wanted to be liked my six year old is not personal space, right, So you have to meet somebody's kids that you're like, yo, this this kid like licked my face and their parents didn't say nothing. I think that I think that we should we should start to apply that, you know, you know, like yo, ask that for a hug first, And it seems so impersonal when it's your kids, but it's also

preparing them for society in life. And it also prepares them for for sexual intercourse with people asking for permission, seeking permission, and then giving permission. I never thought about that, so just now, so it's fast forward like you wanted to the teenage years. So UM, we're looking at an

article by USC's Nursing School. This is two thousand and sixteen, so so not to date, so dated, but it did say that the United States has higher rates of team park and SEE and sexually transmitted diseases than most other industrialized country countries UM. And this seems to be UM because of the lack of sex education in schools. UM. The US requires sex education in grades six, seven, seven through twelve, UM, when other nations require it to be

discussed as early as kindergarten. Then another survey that was done on This is data from the National Survey of Family Growth. Female teenagers are more likely than male teenagers to first report receiving instructions on birth control in high school. So I guess that would make sense because females have the you know exactly, Um, Younger female teenagers are more likely than younger male teenagers to have talked to their

parents about sex and birth control. Nearly two out of three female teenagers talked to their parents about how to say no to sex, compared to one out of five male teens two out of five male teenagers. Wow. So interesting stuff there, Um, So how does it happen with the teenagers who kind of don't know? Um, you know, there's levels to experiences at that point, UM, what in your experience have you have you what in your experience have you realized with teenagers when it comes to sex

and education. What more than sex ays does is that we have classes for teens, and so we get to facilitators, usually male and female facilitators, so we can kind of have that dynamic, um, and then we allow the teens to be able to talk to each other and talk openly to the facilitators and ask questions. We allow them to ask questions anonymously in a question box, and so those questions get answered at the next session. Um, And so that way you don't have to feel sort of

weird about wondering if a thing is normal. But we find that when teenagers are able to have these conversations with other teenagers present, they're much more open and engaged to being a part of the conversation. Yeah, what I'm what I'm realizing just listening to you is that ultimately it starts at home and we as parents, because every child has a parent, you know, nobody doesn't unless they're

an orphan when they don't. But as adults, if you have control over a child, not control, but if you're parenting, there are certain things you should learn about how to educate your teenagers before even going into these environments so that they can receive the information even unlearning as a parent. Because you think about us as adults, we come with some sort of sexual baggage to say, or own sexual experiences that then may impact how we speak to our

children and working to our children. So how can parents unlearn their own shame or their own personal sexual past and talk about sex and engage in healthy conversations with their kids. I think it's probably doing the research being able to understand what you're missing out on if you, as an adult don't even know how your own body works, um, because you can't really explain that right. My my eight year old is obsessed with the word puberty right now.

She has no idea what it means. She thinks it's a thing that happens to you and it's funny and it's goofy. But at first my husband was like, oh, no, do we have to talk about puberty? And I was like, no, she didn't want to hear about it. She just wants to say the word the word it's funny. And so when we get caught up in our own like baggage, as you said, then we start to dump on our

kids in a way that almost feels inappropriate. And so I really feel like parents, if we're getting getting these books to read to our children, that's one of the first ways that you get all the information that you have, right, you get a different book and you read um and just finding out more about your own body and how it works, how the process will work for children, so that when they have questions, you can answer their questions accurately and and be able to I guess give them

reassurance that they're not alone for sure. How would how would you avoid I know you heard the whole comment with t I and his daughter and what he said. How do you avoid as a parent because t I is not the only person who's done that, and he's not He's not the only person. I know moms when

I was training who were that invasive. I remember moms I just mentoring young men and women and they were moms who are single moms and just like I take her and I checked this because I want to make sure And how do you prevent any person, a mom or a dad from being that invasive? Like what steps can they take to still be protective over their children without being invasive privacy that happens because you know black parents, it's really hard. I I don't know if I personally

could protect you know, all of these people. I would love to, And the the t I comment was really really hard to deal with. And I think because there are enough of us who are sort of like, hey, this is this is not cool, this is not what

we're doing anymore. Um. I think the more that voices like yours and more that people see that there's a different way to do it, then we can start to get this sort of out in the atmosphere, right because if the only way you know how to do it is, oh, I'm gonna give my twelve year old a book about

sex when they're twelve and that's it. We'll never talk about it, or you know, I don't feel comfortable talking about periods and now I have to do it, and you know it's it's that continues because we don't have other people going, wait a second, there's a there's another

way to do this. We can totally do this to that, and that's what I think we need more of because as much as people wanted to jump on t I for what he said, there are a lot of people if t I wasn't involved in his daughter's sex life and she was out there acting crazy, we've been like, well, ha,

fallen that there. So it's like, where do we draw the line from the public lynchings of being upset at T I by what he's said and an understanding what he's trying to do, Like me as a dad, Ultimately, if I have a daughter, I don't know what extremes I will go to to protect her innocence. You know, I would rely heavily on her mom. I would because

she's a woman and I would trust her. But ultimately, if this is the sad part, if my daughter does end up going astray and does things that people don't seem to be socially acceptable, the first person they're gonna blame is me, right, So let's be honest. As much as we want to hate t I, people will blame the dad, and any girl who doesn't do is people think they say they have daddy issues. Where do we draw the line as far as this is appropriate, this

isn't appropriate with dealing with your teenage daughters. I think that we put a lot of pressure on teenage girls to have all the answers when I mean this is a two person events, Like if something happens you you have to deal with both having a teenage daughter and possibly a teenage boy by someone someone else, And so your story of as a boy being told where the condoms are and like that being the extent of it.

I remember as the same as my brother, But like I got like books, right, I got a whole education on what was supposed to be happening and what was down and how it all worked in a much more comprehensive way, and not necessarily in a more open way, but definitely the responsibility was said on me for sure that I don't get myself pregnant. I kind of feel like, yeah, I feel you want that, because it was the same thing. It was like, well, this is what you do to

take control of your body. And I think that's why probably to most females are on birth control early, like I have. I know a couple people who have said that their teenage daughters they just put them on birth control because it's like, Okay, it'll help with like, yeah, it'll help with like menstruation and regulating the period cycled yadi, yadi, YadA. But also too, it's like just in case God forbid, my daughter is not going to be getting pregnant for nobody.

But you know what's crazy though, you know how and this is how asked backwards that may work. A girl says, I'm on birth control so I can have sex on protected because I'm not gonna get pregnant, you know, like peoples s T I S. And I remember in high school. I remember in high school there was a couple of girls who on birth control and their boyfriends like, we

only need to use a condom. She on birth control, and I was like, I was like, dang, Like, you know, I didn't understand what birth control was at the age. But now when I think about those comments, and I'm just like, so, you put your daughter on birth control so she don't get pregnant, but you're not protecting her from having unprotected sex with this guy who is having

sex with other people. You know what I'm saying, Like, we're doing half the work, right, We're giving only just the information we want to give, and then we're leaving out some factual um information that keeps everybody safe for sure, for sure. So we talked about teenage girls. Ultimately, I'm going to have three teenage boys, right, And I'm not worried about the consent things so much because my father

was very straightforward with me. The minute she says no, it means you know, the minute she says stop, it means stop. Because there was the whole thing about what if a girl says stop, but she really wants you to keep going with My father was like, if she wants you to keep going, she would said keep going, she says stop, then you stop. So I'm not worried about that aspect of it. I'm worried about how to make them be educated. Trying to figure out how to

say this. I want to educate them, but I don't want to over educate them. But they need to be educated and over educated. Do you get what I'm saying? Because boys, boys need to be educated, and we put a lot of owners on the girls, but boys need to be educated. And it's like, I don't want to to overgive them, overgive them, but I'm I do not want to leave it to anybody else. I do not. I I am afraid because I have a couple of boys who I think are very manipulative, and they'll figure

out who they can ask certain things. They'll be like, I'm not asking Dad this, so I'll ask who I want to get the answer from. How do I avoid that without tainting them? You know what I mean? But I think the consent thing is is the best place to go, right, Like it's you start with, when someone says no, it means no. When someone says maybe, that also probably means right. So one of the things I think that we try to do is we want to have all the answers, but it's actually really nice to

be able to let your kids feel safe with other adults. So, if you have another adult in your family or in your community that you would feel safe with your children, going to let them know. And that way they won't get the misinformation, right, they won't find it out from one of their friends, or they won't find it out from a dirty magazine. I don't know do dirty magazine?

Do you exist? So? I mean, do comes? But a good way to take some of the pressure off of you is to literally take the pressure off of you. Tell your children, I trust this other adult. I trust this person in my community. If you have questions that you are uncomfortable asking me, go ask them, and then you have conversations with that adult. Right, you make sure that that adult and you have a rapport that you

guys feel comfortable with the same information. UM make it so that you build a community of people that your children can trust. Absolutely. I definitely, I definitely understand you, guys. But I also I'm a boy, and I was a fifteen year old boy, and anytime somebody gave me a list of people that I could speak to, I speak to none of them. I was like anybody who my parents told me I could speak to, because my has already got to them. I needed to find different. You

guys are different. I am different than my kids, but I know boys like mentoring. All these boys they like they don't want to be anywhere near their parents, and I'm trying to find a way to kind of sneak the information to them, you know, without I think we'll figure it out. So I'm trying to figure out, hopefully gravitate towards by the time boys need this, then they'll be this organization more than sex said, where they can take, you know, six weeks of healthy sexual education with other

people that are their same age boys and girls. They can ask their questions, they can feel confident in the work that they're doing. So you may have to opt into that. I mean we could, but I've setten the sex and classes when I was fifteen before, and all

that heard was vagina, vagina, That's what I'm married. But I can also imagine for you, just as we kind of wrap things up, we can touch on it um how complex sex education is now because you know, we're talking about gender identity, UM identifying in different ways so how do you, um, so talk to me a little bit about gender expression? And I guess that's it's sex

and sex educator. Um. Do you think this is an appropriate age to start allowing you children to express their gender in certain ways or any kind of obstacles that you found when it comes to children, um, deciding or

vocalizing I should say, their sexual orientation. UM. I've come to see that most of the obstacles when kids have difference of opinion about that that's different than like the heteronormative like straight gender expression is actually other kids, other kids and maybe sometimes other adults that are like, oh no, no, no, you're totally not that thing that you think you are

because you're too young. Um. And we never say that to kids you think are straight, right, like ever, right, Like a five year old looks at a pretty woman, like an adult woman and goes, oh, she's pretty. We're like, yes, she is, isn't she? But if a five year old girl did that, we would be like, uh no, that's not how you feel about that. Um. And So I think that one of the things that we can do is to let kids express themselves in the way they want to without trying to take that away from them

almost immediately because it'll happen right right, Um. And the other thing is to listen to them because I mean, gender expression and gender identity we're still sort of figuring

out how we all fit into that, right. So so even if you identify completely as straight um and CIS are like says gender, you're still within the gender spectrum and we try to negate that for some reason and just say, oh, that person is trans so that they're the gender spectrum or that person and is by or that person's case, and they're you know, the only people

talking about sexuality where we're all in it together. And I think that if we give that to our kids, because I mean, if you've talked to middle and high school kids today, they're fine, Like they know I was gonna be honest about they know, like they're they're and they're in it, and they're comfortable with it. They're comfortable with different pronouns, they're comfortable with, you know, wearing whatever they want and identifying however they want. It's really mostly adults.

I think we missed kids that are first are giving them all these ideas and no, no, no, you're too young and don't wait it out and they know, you know what's funny, right, And it's the funny thing. The funny thing I think about gender and sexuality, Right, we as adults now want to put labels on everything and everybody, right, so we start messing people's head up. If you're a boy, you shouldn't wear and I've heard men, I've heard minutes it is. If you're a boy, shouldn't wear tight pants,

Your boy, you can't wear wigs. If your boy, you shouldn't wear outliner. Right, But that's saying man idolizes prince. And think about the irony and that prince in this day and age would be considered a free quote unquote to all of these headero males who idolized him for being himself. And the prince loved women. So think about that, Like, we put all these labels on kids from young instead of allowing them to be who they want to be.

And then once we put the label on them, we tell them what they can they can't do, but then idolized people who we if we, if they were young, would have labeled them something different. I feel like adults need to kind of chill out when it comes to kids and let a kid just be a kid. I

just let a kid be a kid. And like you said, they get to middle school, high school, they're gonna figure that out, especially with gender, because even as adults were still trying to figure out what the gender spectrum is? How do we label young babies when we don't know what the gender spectrum is because we're trying to figure it out. To me, it seems like we're working as backwards.

Like I feel like we're trying so hard to figure something out that's so abstract that we're we're working backwards and we're losing kids because once people labels and we start pointing and saying don't do this and don't do that, we're work. You know, we're losing trust. The kids are starting to lose trust and us as adults because they don't believe what we're saying. So when it comes to that with my kids, man, I'm just my kids gonna be who they are. Nobody better come to me with

what my kid is because I'll fight them. I'm so serious. I look at I look at I'm growing up. I loved Michael Jackson. I loved him. If you look at the way I turned addressed who I turned. It was the biggest womanizer, the biggest strongest hetero sexual man. I looked at old pitches I turned, and he wore wigs, he had a cut bob, he wore an eyeliner. He wore tight pants with fish net shirts. Could you imagine what I turned? It would be called today, But people

thought he was a man's man back then. It's like, I think we're doing too much. Let people be kids with that. Just let kids be kids. Do you offer that at more than sex said, like a complete open safe space for children to speak about that naturally? Yes, yes, children who are still trying to like figure out things sexually,

depending on whatever um area they identify with. Yes, I mean, and that's why when you start early and you give children a place to really get all of the adult for themselves, then as it changes, you know, they can say, oh, maybe I was this and now I feel more drawn to this um without feeling like they're wrong all the time. Right.

It gives them space to open up and really dig deep and go, oh, well, this is this is who I am, and this is what makes me feel comfortable, this is what I would want, this is how I want to be treated and It creates adults that feel confident in themselves to go out and say, these are the kind of relationships I want. These are the kinds of people I want in my life because it's all about relationships, right, It's all about how we interact with

each other, whether that's sexual or not. Um. And when we start with consent and move our way onto something much more intense like sexual contact, are contact, um, then we're on the right page. Right, they know where to start. Sounds good, very helpful tips today, Yes, for sure. And for the record, I like you in type pants. I like yeah second print. This is the second time today for the print you talked about my underwear and now you're talking about Bernandez now fresh. You're a hot mess,

you know. I think we need a break. We need the coolest guy off. Yeah, we're gonna take a quick break, but we're going to move into listening letters after we get into some ads and stick around this. For the record, there it is. Tiger Woods is one of our most inspiring sports icons. In his story, it comes with many chapters. I am deeply sorry from my irresponsible and selfish behavior, but here it is. They'll return to glory. This is All American, a new series from Stitcher hosted by me

Jordan Bell. You realize Tiger Wiz doesn't know who he is best in the history of golf, no question in my mind. And this season, with the help of journalist Albert Chen, we're asking what if the story of Tiger Woods that the media has been telling, what if it's been completely wrong? All American Tiger is out now. Listen in Stitcher, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite podcast app. So

now let's get into some listener letters. Antoinette is sticking around, and um let's see what y'all hit us up within the email box real quick. All right, all right, here's the first one. First off, I just want to say the value truly inspire me to be a better husband to my wife and father to my Son's appreciate that, man, I appreciate you. Love that. I just wanted to know

if you had any advice on fatherhood. I have a three year old and a two week old, and I feel that, due to not having any good examples of being a father, I'm unequipped to give them the tools to be upstanding men. Any help is appreciate it. Uh, what's up? Brother? First and foremost, thank you for your kind words. Um, I really appreciate them. The first thing I would say about fatherhood is that just asking this question means that you're going to be a great father.

You acknowledge that you don't know everything. And one thing I learned from Just Sports was that the minute you think you know everything is when you have to realize you know nothing. So seek as much information as you can.

We talked about it a lot on this podcast. Seeking information is the best way to pass information on to your son's and for you to spend time with him, hug him, kiss him, tell them you love them, and still discipline when needed, but also make sure that they know that they can trust their father for whatever they need. That's going to give them the confidence to be upstanding young men. And it's that simple. You'll figure it out. There's no rule book, there's no you know book to

you know, follow these guidelines. Love them as hard as you can. UM, give them that that discipline when they need it, but just let them know that they can trust their dad. Oh that's really nice. I love when the guys right in because I feel like, you know, you're a lot of our questions are normally from women, but when guys right in. But you took the words right out of my mouth though this wasn't a question

post to me, but I thought the same thing. I'm like for him to even write in about this and say, you know what, I don't know. I haven't had those examples around, like what are some tips that already just shows me that you're going to be dad for sure? For sure? Absolutely, So thank you for that one, all right, And the second listener letter listening to your podcasts with Mr and Mrs keV on stage and the thing Miss keV on stage said about purity really struck me. Wow,

we spoke with that kind of touched on that. Growing up, my parents did not talk to me about sex at all other than it's wrong and just wait till marriage. So in my mind, I just settled on the fact that I'm okay, I'm not going to have to do sex until I'm married. Then it changed to I'm not going to have sex until I'm with someone I have a real mutual love with. Here, I am twenty seven years old and single, trying to date in a generation

who only believes in tender texting and sex. On the first date part of me feels like I've made way too big a deal out about purity and being a virgin. There have been times where I felt that I should just do it and get it over with. Should I. The older I get, the more complex I feel about the situation and how it's becoming. I feel less in tune with my body as a young woman, and I'm starting to have increased anxiety about sharing my body with another person. And at what point should I tell a

guy that I'm a virgin? Good thing? We got, Antonine, I don't even so seven just breaking down twenty seven years old. She's been taught that sex has been wrong in her entire life, she needs to wait till marriage, and now she's in a society where you know, sex as casual um, and she kind of wants to know how to deal with this. Okay, Well, I personally have a huge problem with the purity culture. It's very patriarchal for me in a way that women aren't allowed to

really take care of themselves. Um. And so my advice would be to someone who might feel this way is definitely get to know your own boundaries, right, Like, take away the boundaries that someone else has given you and really feel where you're where you stand, and if once those boundaries to take away, once you feel like, oh well this this is something that someone else cared more about than what I care about, then you really know

who you are. And then you know, maybe you might want to have sex, maybe you don't want to have sex, and that's fine, being more taking taking the power away from the parents or whoever has instilled this purity mindset and just saying, okay, what do I want to do? Exactly? Got you exactly? And then when you have that, and this goes back to consent, right, and you meet someone who might want to have sex on a first date, and you can say that's not for me. Right, Maybe

you want to have sex on the first date. Maybe you want to be a part of the same sort of tender culture. I'm not really sure, but I would say the best thing to do is really find out where you stand, not where your parents stand, not where society even wants to put to you. Right, So taking away the levels of a shame that is surrounding it, or that's been placed on her about it, because now

she's asking the question and it's funny. Um, it's not funny, but I was thinking about a little pre conversation we had about this topic with one of our producers, Triple As. She said, the conversation that her mom had with her about sex. But nobody's gonna do you better than yourself. Nobody's gonna do you like you do yourself. So can I wonder if I was just saying, I wonder if she's been exploring her own body to see what she likes and what she doesn't likes. Maybe that can take

some of the edge off or not. I don't know, because I wasn't seven in the Virgins, and I will say this to a piggyback of what Anton that said. I think it's a point for her to figure out what she wants. If she wants to exist in the tender culture and be free sexually, there's nothing wrong with that. People live in by different moral codes and different moral standards. As long as you're living truth to yourself, you're fine. But if she does want to exist in the purity culture,

need be it for us to judge her? For there are also men who live by the same standard. For example, like Tim Tebow, who said he wasn't going to have sexually got married and he did it. And this is a world famous, world class athlete who could have had his choice of any woman. At one point. He was like the greatest football player ever out of Florida who chose to stick by his own moral code and to stay pure in his own right as a man to

find a woman to get married to. So there are men out there who exist in that same culture if you choose to. I wonder if not we should invent it is in the same boat. But I'm wondering if there are spaces for people who share like that, like minded or you know, way of question, probably just because doesn't mean that you're practicing purity or a virgin. But

I agree with you. I definitely agree that it has to be your own choice, right Like so if Tim Tebow decided that that was him and he felt confident in that, then that's fine. But your listener doesn't feel like she feels confident. So it has to be your because blowing up my parents. It has to be your values. And once you become set in your values, then you know,

all of the anxiety goes away. I mean, that's you know what's funny, That's what it all boils down to, is that this is your own person, and you owe nobody else. You nobody else anything. You can do what you want with who you want, with yourself or with someone like that's just a boy home line. You know she's not seventeen, she's all right. Rys list their letters. Thank you for helping us out with a much you

appreciated um. And if you out there want to be featured as one of our listener letters, be sure to email us at dead s Advice at gmail dot com and send us a nice little story, a little context so we can try to give y'all our two cents. All right, So tell everybody one more time recap where they can find you your handles websites give them all the ta so when they want to set up these sessions with their kids and you, you know, we can

get them popping. Oh my goodness. If you want to find classes in the l A area, both for schools and um independent classes, you can go to more than sex ed and that's sex head with a hyphen in between sex dot org um my personal handle. You want to give us the person business, you could do that because box might get blown up. I will give him the business given the business in fults in the business and so actually you can probably just email that would

be best. So the email they can find through the website more than sex hyphen dot org. Yes, perfect, Thank you so much, thank you, thank you much. Appreciate it. Alright, Moment of truth time. We had a very loaded conversation today about the birds and the bees and the babies, the baby's babies, but our babies. No, but it does start with the babies because something that I learned, it

was like a lightbulb that just went off. If you start with permission with your children, by teaching them personal space, how to respect other people's personal space, but how to gain respect for their own personal space, everything else will probably be very very simple. You know. Something simple is like, hey, don't just run up on me and give me a hug. You know, let's talk about it first, right, Hey, Dad could give you a hug? Hey, Caro, give you a hug?

Hey Jacks, can Dad give you a kiss? Today? Just about asking those questions will create a culture where they will understand what consent is and what it isn't. And we're not even talking about sex, talking about consent for touching, consent for anything. And that's huge for the beginning basis of sex education. Absolutely just giving them the autonomy over their person like this is what I will allow and won't allow, and then giving the same respect to other people.

That's okay, no, for sure, that's so. UM. I think my moment is true is knowing that it's never too young to start the conversation with the kids and um, you know, starting from you know, very early, you know, two and three, where Kira and kas are um with just body parts, identifying what they are, using the correct names, and then age appropriate conversations there after where you start to slowly put things into context, but in a nature, in a manner, in a time frame where they can

actually absorb it and understand it. Um. I think it's going to be very important for us moving forward with the boys. UM So I look forward to teaming up with you, joining forces. Give me a handshake, me a handshake. There, there we are, And if you're approaching one on the street, you know, meet someone for the first time, maybe ask them, are you hugger or do you want to handshake? Your handshake?

Hug your handshake? So we're handshaking today the way you'd be acting about the birds and bees in our own bed. I don't know, We're gonna constantly disagreement later on. Be sure to follow us on social media at Cadeen, I am and developed, And if you're listening on Stitcher, Spotify or Apple podcast, be short to rate, review and subscribe. Dead As dead Ass is a production of Stitcher. We are produced by Jackie Soljico and Dinor Opinia are executive

producer t Square. Our associate producers are Triple and Kristen Torres. Our chief content Officer is Chris Bannon. Our studio engineer and original music is by Brendan Burns and last but not least, we are mixed by Andy Kristen's We'll Back. I'm Drew McCarry and I'm David Roth. We have a podcast going on right now as part of the stitchen Net.

We're called Substraction that's available everywhere. Get a podcast at Stitcher, Spotify, Apple, Go listen right now to the Distraction, right now, it's out. Do it please,