The 7th Sense with Dr. Reema Naim

we're the Ellises. You may know us from posting funny videos with our boys and reading each other publicly as a form of therapy. Wait, I'll make you need therapy most days. Wow. And one more important thing to mention, we're married. We are. We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of life's most taboo topics, things most folks don't want to talk about. Do the lens the millennium married couple. That adds to the term that we

say every day. So when we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts one, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. We're about to take pillow talk to a whole new level. Dead ass starts right now. So this karaoke song means a lot to me, of course, because y'all know the val love of kids, A lot of kids, and this is an anthem. Matt prototype were shot. Shout out to New York. I ain't gonna shout at the artist till we after see. I was very fitty.

I wore my New York. I see you whatever. You don't matter where I'm at. You look nice. It don't matter where I'm at New York. Father, all right, now, I love it. I know I can't beat what I want to be. If I work hard at it, I'll be where I want to. I know I can't beat what I want to be. If I work hard at it, I'll beat where I love it. Alright, Yeah, let me tell you this season, you've been hitting all sorts of notes and actives. I think somebody's been practicing for carry.

We've been in quarantine. It wasn't me, though. You've been practicing your singing in quarantine. I haven't practicing my bacon baking for sure. I'm not sure it's He'm bacon all right, bis Martine my new nickname. Shout out to Trouble Triple. I still can't get Triple's name right any who? Yes, story time, all right, So this story time is gonna

take me back to two thousand and fourteen. Ok I know if again, I'm not gonna say the young man's name because, um, you'll probably go find him on Facebook because people are crazy. But his mom and my brother and I were doing prototype in Brooklyn and his mom brought us him to us because he wanted to be on the football team. Okay, that narrows it down to about four kids. And I'm not gonna say to school, but she brought him to us, and she said his

issue is he has behavioral issues. So he's been medicated. He has about a sixty three average. She just wants him to graduate high school. That's what she's saying. Her aim was listening, he's off the rails. I just need him to graduate high school. And my brother and I have been used to dealing with children like this because he was fourteen at the time, and we were like, um,

let's try something different. You know, we're not gonna do the whole screaming thing and get upset at him, and so let's let's try to give him accountability first and tell him listen, if your average has not come up to a seventy five after this first semester with us, you can no longer participate in prototype. So a lot of times what we noticed is if you give accountability to kids and they're around other kids who exist in that same accountability room, they'll normally just step up without

you having to be right. They don't want to be the dumb kids, the butt of the ducks. So pretty much we since you know you had to have at least in eighty five, no one wanted to be the dumb kid had prototype. So he worked to get his grades up right and then, um, we asked them seriously, like what's the matter. He said, Man, when I take this medication, I just don't feel good when I'm in school,

I'm tired and I feel sluggish. So me and my brother was like talking to his mom and said, can he stop taking the medication for a semester and see how it goes. His grades went up to eight after taking him off the medication, and he started a workout program with us, and we gave him words of affirmation to say whenever he felt nervous. So remember we used to say, I'm big, I'm strong, I'm fast, I'm elite, I'm a prototype. That started with this young man because

he didn't have confidence. So like, if you get nervous before tests, meditate, go to yourself. I'm big, I'm strong, I'm fast, I'm elite. And then we spoke words of positivity. You can do this, like you've already done this. This young man ended up graduating from high school with NADID average, attending college and now has his bachelor's degree medication free and medication free. And his mom just wanted him to graduate.

She wanted him to pass. And here this young man was able to go on and do well and excel and go to school. She said, never in a million years, and she think her son would go to college. And he went on his own merit and earned academic scholarship. So that's my my story. I'm proud. I'm not going to say his name. The people who know me probably know this young man because they know what I'm talking about. But I'm not gonna blast him about what his grades

were before a prototype. But it's not how you start. That's that and he's not the only one, all right. So the new normal, though I really do not want to accept this as like the new normal. It's the new temporary. How about that it's the new interim. Okay if you will, Um, but whatever this is has really

changed the way our children are experiencing education. But today we're talking about how virtual learning affects children with learning disabilities, and UM, we're here to gain some insight on how to best support our kids through this transition, because, like I said, now parents have assumed the role of teachers and everywhere else in between when it comes to the educational staff and being a normally in those environments and school environments, teachers can then pick up on a learning

disability that a child may have or some sort of behavioral issue. So now that parents are home with their children, you know, how do you really hone in on realizing what those things are? How do we differentiate what just maybe frustration from the parent and um, maybe frustration from the child who just may not even understand or the the parent may not understand how to navigate, um, such a deficit. So we decided to bring in an expert today because we don't know not about that side of things.

We just know our own three kids and we're still learning them. We are still learning them on a day to day basis. So allow me to introduce our special guest today, doctor Rema Naim. Rema attended the University of Southern California, where she completed her bachelor's, master's, and doctorate. She was there a long time um in psychology and

occupational therapy. Her love for animation and creative nature gave birth to the Sense of Kids, four lovable sensory characters whose role is to educate clients and families about occupational

therapy and the sensory systems we work with. Dr Naim received her s i p T That Sensory Integration and Practice Tests certification shortly after opening OT Studios, Inc. And becoming a c a S, which is a Certified Autism Specialist, to expand her knowledge and passion for working with Century integration. She currently oversees the business and it's working on expanding the Sense of Kids brand. She is also a fairly new mama. So beautiful little boy ex Savior. Thank you

for joining us today, Rema. So happy to have you here, and it's amazing that we have you here on the day that your book launched. I know, it's crazy, it actually happened. I've been working on this for five years now, so it's pretty amazing. Since I opened the clinic, which is five years ago, so this was a huge accomplishment

out of my end. Now for sure, what I love is that in speaking with your Rima, just having past conversations, you talked about how much you were able to or desiring to somehow find a way to use your creativity when it came to your practicals, you know, for profession. And I'm super happy for you. I'm were excited that you were able to navigate this and find a way to integrate, um, your creativity and your love for that into your field of work. Absolutely. I mean I I

initially as a child, wanted to be a music video director. Okay, you would have been recruiting me. I was super just for my husband. Now, I was super into like filmmaking and music and and just the ability to express myself creatively. But um, in my culture and my background, my family was all you have to be a doctor or a lawyer of that industry. Maneuver through and UM, I went into occupational therapy, got my doctorate, and then I the

creative bug did not want to leave me. The creative It's going to come out some way, and it came out in my profession, which is um something I'm so excited about and proud of. That's amazing. Well, I'm excited about it. And you know, read the sensory kids. And one thing that kind of interests me was learning about two new senses. My whole life, girl, I was taught about there being five senses. I was today years old when I found out that we had seven senses and

not five. Yeah, and I felt, I feel like, now I'm doing my children a disservice ice the other two. Seriously, can you can you pretty much break down the seven senses or the two additional senses? So the five that we all know of, right, we all know the five senses, but there are two additional senses, and they are the vestibular system and the approprioceptive system. The vestibular system being

the movement and balance system. So basically, let's say, if you close your eyes and you move your head right, left, back forward, you know the direction you're moving based upon your vestibular sense, which is located in the interior. Or if you're a roller coaster and you close your eyes, you know which direction you're going. That's your vestibular sense.

Then you have appropriate sceptive sense, which is basically muscle active, so you're if I do jumping Jack's the joint receptors are sending connections to my brain that this is what

your body is doing in this action. Right. Understanding the importance of those two will help when it comes to child development because if you think about the playground and children trying to navigate new um the jungle gym, or new activities within the playground setting, some children who are having a hard time processing these sensory this sensory input or having an issue with practice, which is basically the neurological connection or neurological display of connection between the cognition

and the action. So your cognition and your action kind of connectively through the through the brain. So them having an issue with that is a sensory concern, But a lot of times it will look like the kid is antisocial, they don't want to play in the playground, so it surfaces as a behavioral issue exactly. So, oh, she's sitting on the corner because she doesn't want to play with anyone,

she doesn't like to engage. No, she may have an issue with practice, She may have a motor planning issue, her senses may be affected so let's get a sensory evaluation done by an occupational therapist before labeling behavior or you know, an issue that may not be that I mean, I'm not saying it isn't a behavior issue that I'm saying there's something else that you should consider it being right.

So it's not just automatically labeling the child. It's like, do we do our due diligence as a parent to say, you know what, let's have our child see and occupational therapist. So for someone who may not know what exactly an occupational therapist does, can you let them know what you do?

Absolutely so. As an o T, I'm in pediatrics. Ot S are in many different facets and areas, but UM I am in pediatrics, and what we do is we basically work with children who have autism, developmental delay, sensory processing disorder UM, children who are not meeting certain milestones, and we do evaluations on them. We see exactly what areas are limiting gross motor, fine motors, social emotional where it is, and then we create treatment plans and goals

around those UM areas. And that's what we do. We work with them on achieving those goals. UM In the long run. So this was crazy, right because I saw an occupational therapist after my surgery, and most people do when you're a professional athlete. All these motor skills, appropriate reception in vestibula. I've heard these terms before. After you come back from an injury, you have to retrain your body to be able to do these things. So, for example, I remember when I came off my surgery and I

broke my finger. In the very beginning, I had an issue catching the ball, not because I didn't know how to catch a ball, but it was working on the motor skill from my finger being ready to So we had to do a bunch of like you know, therapy things for me to get that back. So it makes it makes me think how many kids probably struggle with those things from young and we just passed that off as all this kid is just something's wrong with them

without working on it. We're only ready to work on it as adults when we see it fits for something like athletics. But this is important for every day, every day interaction. Absolutely, I feel like pediatric OTE and just OTE in general and under I feel like an understanding of sensory integration and an understanding of how it can

impact or or or affect your child's development. Is important for all parents and all teachers and anyone who's really interacting with a child on a day to day basis, because understanding that information will help you pinpoint certain things you may have not thought of and probably not label things as oh, this is definitely a behavioral or this got this has got to be this or that. No, maybe this is sensory related, because a lot of things

can be sensory related. There's a there's a thin line with the behavior and the sensory and just I feel like part of what an occupational therapist does is investigative, so it's finding out what it is and then you're corrective because if you can correct certain things on an earlier phase for the child, well then it will not impede the progress of their growth and hitting those If a child comes to us with tactile defensiveness when there maybe three or four, it's easier for us to work

with that or younger preferably, but if it's later on in developments a lot harder. Tactile defensiveness is what defensiveness too. So basically, if you are wearing something that is itchy or bothers them. For you and me, it might be Okay, this is just bothersome. I can handle it though. I can still live my daily life. But for someone who has tactile defensiveness, it would be a real bothering problem problem, and it will actually impact their daily life. So they

can't articulate that to their parents. They may come across as a behavioral issue in school. If they wear that's that's bothering them. And you know how many times we've seen this. I think I've even seen this in Jackson. I used to get those fleeces that absolutely zip up here and He's like, I hate zipper on my neck and I'm like, dude, it's just a zipper. I'm saying

that as an adult. But no, but as long as it's not impacting his day life, as long as he's I mean, I hate certain textures too, and but I can still function. Now, if you can't function, then there's a there's a level that needs you need to see someone who can actually work with you. And in OT as an OT, when we work with these things, we work basically with the neurological system in the clinic, all under the guise of play. So the child doesn't realize

that what we're doing has a neurological basis. The child is thinking, I'm playing, I have a play date to day, but what I'm doing really is, you know, navigating these neurological sensory um concerns. And I'll say why that's important, especially from a young age. We got a lot of parents in Prototype whose children, whether it was a boy

or a girl, who brought their children. Brought their children the Prototype because they felt like they were antisocial and they're like, they need to work out because they're so antisocial, they don't want to go outside. And since they don't want to go outside in their anti social their parents are worried that they won't be good people, you know, like they just there assimilating people and bringing them the prototype. We worked on these drills, just taught them how to

be sports. And as they became more confident doing these drills because they did it over and over again, when they got back to their block or their community, they felt more comfortable going outside to play basketball because their balance was better, they were a little bit stronger, they were faster, and then they started to develop friends. Because we all develop our society as society. We all develop

our friends through play totally. So when you make a kid feel more comfortable with their body, they'll feel more comfortable speaking to another child. And I've seen their firsthand with prototype absolutely. I mean I've seen it just firsthand in in in playground settings and I've just been that

must just be a great like specimening playground. Yeah, you can see all kinds of things in the playground, but yeah, it makes you think, and then that a lot of the teachers will will identify, oh, this kid doesn't want or for example, um on the circle time. If a child is sitting at circle time and he's rolled ling around on the carpet and not paying attention, the teachers

will sometimes think he's got a behavior problem. No, maybe it's his vestibular system, his balance and movement sense that may need you know, maybe he's having a hard time processing that that feedback and that sensory information. So if he's inadequately processing it, then it's unfair to be labeling him as having a behavior issue, So get him an referral,

let's figure out what this is. But not knowing about these other two senses, right, you don't know, you don't exact wor so, are there any tools that parents can use I guess prior to getting to an OT doctor, are there any tools that parents can use to help identify a child with some sort of sensory issue or deficit, particularly the two that we are referring to that many

people don't know about. Right, So, in terms of that, I would think a lot of it is if for the younger kids, it would be understanding the milestones, right,

understanding your child's level of meeting certain social milestones. If you're catching it in an early early phase, let's make sure that they're reaching their developmental milestones later on, I would suggest, I mean personally, I would suggest getting an evaluation, just because we have specific standardized evaluations, the sensory profile, the sensory processing measure, and then we also have the

Sensory Integration and Practice test, which will identify UM. So the tool I would say, identifying the tools that would most likely be a standardized assessment UM getting that done if you see certain characteristics in your child, like the

ones we were talking about. This is funny how we even as an adult, you characterize someone as being socially awkward, and you notice that they have their physically awkward as well, and you never think that they may be socially awkward because they've always been physically awkward, so they've always separated themselves from people, and now they're socially awkward because they

were always physically offered awkward. But I have a question how our parents, because parents are strugg in with this for the past year, almost when it has been a year, it'll be a year, the longest year longer. But when you have children who cannot go to the classroom setting right, so there is no carpet time, rug time, like, there's no interaction, interaction. Children are literally sitting at the computer and then coming to talk to their parents. How can

parents begin to look for these signs at home? Because you don't want to spend a whole year. We don't know how long we're gonna be like this, and so many milestones can be hit within a year, even just so many depending on the child's age range, I mean most of them we look for. I would say, is it safe to say every when they're younger, like in a couple of months, I would definitely look for everything.

The earlier, the earlier, the better. Um, I know, the CDC has a checklist that you can download for free. UM that kind of gives you an idea of what milestones your child should be meeting at certain points. UM. So following those milestones, making sure you're with your pediatrician. Your pediatrician is also looking at this stuff too, So communicating any concerns to your pediatrician. UM. But as for

virtual learning, UM, yes, it's definitely a cause. It's it's definitely a concerning thing when you have a child who may have sensory concerns and they're in home with it with the inability to do much. So movement breaks are huge. Being able to take movement breaks understanding that they may need to do the approprial sceptive jumping jack's and get a little bit of vestibular you know, movement recess. Yes, absolutely important. Um. There are things like fidget toys that

are huge. I just said that's okay about the fidget spinners. Not only that, but chewing I don't know if you were one of these people, but chewing on your pencil us A lot of the kids to have these the little chewy things that you can chew on instead of

the pencil approprial sception. That's your jaw muscle activity kind of giving you some sort of ability to little maintain a little more attention, little focus, um even even the sense of taste, like eating things like sour candy or thing that alerts to you, you know what I mean, Little things like that to just stimulate and awaken. This is important because Jackson is the one kid who will always be like, I need something, I got to eat something. He's always and it makes you work. But it was

just him and being a growing boy. So Mike, he's going to eat me at the house and hope soon. Do you ever watch him when he's on his computer. Whenever he's on his computer, he's always doing something else while sitting on the computer. He's always he has his phone and sometimes I'm like, put your phone down. Then you'll put his phone down there to have his pencil, He's like twiling his pencil away and I'm just like,

what is wrong with you? Like sit still? But that's when I had to check myself and say, maybe I shouldn't tell him to system to find something for him to do. Maybe that's helping modulate his sensory arousal level so that it's an optimal level of arousal where he's able to maintain the focus and attention needed. Um, And

I think that's great that he's fine. Now if there was, if he was unable, if it was impeding his chances of focusing entirely and he was not getting anything done, then I would say, Okay, this is a cause for concern. But if he's finding ways to modulate his arousal level and get himself to focus, then that's actually not something too to judge but too in garbage. Okay, that helps you. If sitting on a wiggly chair helps you, Okay, let's

do it. It's funny you've mentioned the wiggly chair. I way, Jackson. We've set up his room in space in his room where that's his workstation for school, you know, because we wanted to mimic the classroom. So I literally got him a desk, and I got him this like swivel chair, you know. It's blue, and it goes up and down

and swivels right. So at random points during the day, we'll be downstairs in the kitchen or whatever he's in his room concentrating and then we'll hear like a boom or like a crash, and we're just like, what the hell is going on over there? I'm like, it's not Jim class. I don't know what he's doing experience. He's like falling out of the chair, or he's spinning, or he's just doing something. The chair is broken now, remot

the whole back of the chair has fallen. Rooms are everywhere, and he's just you know, and now that you mentioned and I'm like, this is the crazy thing. Academically he's through the roof, and athletically he's just he excels athletically. But if he were in a class setting and kept moving, you know what, they say, he has a behavioral issue, and you know he needs to go see someone about it because he won't sit still. That was my brother Brian, and I got to say I got in trouble for

the same thing. If I won't be quiet, he won't sit still. And I worry that he's going to get to a point where they're like, well, he needs medication. Because when I worked with I worked with a ton of middle school kids for the past ten years, and there's always a point when it gets about seventh grade where we see young black boys in particular, where it's like, oh,

he needs medication. He has a d D or a d h D and their parents will bring him to us at prototype and be like, well, before we do this, can you guys work with him and see what it is. So we give them a workout regimen for them to do at home and for them to do with us. And we've noticed that their behavior calms down when they work out. So can you talk a little bit about

how movement just helps? Yeah? Absolutely appropriate. Exception is like the main modulator of everything, right, Like we always consider it like when everything fails, use prope um And it's basically muscle activity, which is what you're saying. Muscle activity, whether it's pushing something heavy, whether it's um you know, doing any climbing activities, things that really incorporate muscle strength,

and muscle activity is a modulator. So if a person is super high aroused and unable to pay attention or low arousal and needs a little push, it's always a good idea to incorporate prope And that is something you see as well from an athletics perspective. Feel like the vow is like the poster chat for that, because if this guy is not pushing away lifting, you know, ability. It's like he literally has to be moving in order to be calm. I'm at your house every day. Every day.

I have to live weights. If I don't lift weights, and then think about it, think about how productive I've been since I started lifting weights every day going to Slick's house. Think about how much we've gotten done. Lifting weights for me has been like the because even before we started going to lift weights, I was running, but I didn't have anything heavy in my house, so I felt restless. Once I'm done lifting weights in the morning, you can lift, Yeah, I don't. Don't you said that

a little bit too much comic. It's the type of weight I like. It's quarantine weights. I'm not complaining about that. It's dragon I need to get some squats and so we can stand up. Um so remote for new parents because we have many people who follow that are around the millennial age range, either have children thinking of having children. For new parents, at what age should they start to look for the signs during this developmental process that may or may not be an issue for their children? And

second part is a two part question. Should parents look for different signs between boys and girls? Yeah? I mean that for that, I would say, there are studies that say, you know, boys, um develop gross motor skills faster, and girls develop fine motor skills faster. Boys are less communication, um, gross motor and fine motor. So um, fine motor like writing or doing anything. Yeah. Well yeah, so studies have

shown this. UM. I feel like all children develop on their own trajectory, and I do believe that there's you know, some some truth to that. But at the same time, UM, I wouldn't say that would be the thing to think about. I think it would be really looking at milestones when it comes to autism specifically, which people with children with sensory processing issue a lot of times have I mean, they do go kind of you know, and there are sensory processing disorders on their own, but then there's also

autism linked sensory processing disorders. And then to just look for the communication like do they pay attend, do they look at you in the eye, do they pay focus and eye attention? Um, giggles laughs. Are they socially kind of communicating with the other waving bye bye? Are they clapping when they do something good? I believe so yeah, like around eight nine eight months and above nine months and above even tracing like the baby looking back and forth.

That's something that happens in a couple of months pointing to things. It's their non verbal social communication skills. You should definitely be looking for that. But I know that the pediatricians do the m CHAT. I believe, um, which is a series of questions, UM around eighteen months. I want to think. I'm not a pediatrician, so I don't know, but around that time, UM, they'll do the m CHAT. And that's that's also a big, big one in terms

of an assessment. But yeah, if you see any concerns, if you see anything that you find is a little bit strange or odd, I would always go to the pediatrician and ask for um, you know, for advice on how to proceed. And if it is a sensory issue, then I would always say, you know, approach and O T. So if a child is suspected to have autism, for example, UM, it would be an assessment from an ote at first it was basically what happens. It would be from the pediatrician.

First pediatrician would screen it UM, and then they would go on to refer you, whether it's to a developmental pediatrician or whoever else that they would, but we would get the referral after that, so the developmental patrici or the pediatrician would refer I know that it's been heavily debated where autism or any of these behavioral issues or you know, problems maybe arise, and I know that there's probably certain risk factors that maybe start as early as

when a woman is pregnant or not. I thought she was going to ask about the vaccines, because now, well, that's part of it. You know, that's a big But the MMR vaccine, I mean, there's no there's no real justification. I mean, I know people feel strongly about vaccines, but yeah, that's sometimes people are really either more about it or what do you think there are I don't I don't believe that there's a strong link based on research. I don't believe that there's a strong link to the MMR.

But I do understand the concerns, and I do understand every parent's concerned is warranted. Everybody's concerned. Um, that's the concern for the COVID vaccine now, because we're like, we don't want to be the first to try it. And if you have young kids, they have to go back to school. I'm not going to just let you stick my kid with a neil. And we don't know what the long term effects are. Um, there's no like bulletproof, clear cut like reason or explanation as to how autism appears,

which is you know, concerning. It's concerning. And I feel like you feel like if there was a way that we can combat to do it, and we'd be doing it as early as maybe when you're pregnant, because you can relate to this now as a mom, I'm sure, Rema in that you try to do everything perfect while you're pregnant, Like you follow all the rules, don't eat this, do that, take your prenatal do that, and then you just all timidly pray for a healthy baby that will

grow to be an amazing person. And you just never know some of the factors that may, you know, impede the progress or slow things down. So yeah, well do you think that autism has was something that always existed? But now we just have ways to diagnose it, So it's become a little bit more of a hotbutned topic now. I believe that we've definitely improved the ability to diagnose it. Yeah, and the ability to have to find out that, Okay, this this child definitely is showing symptoms. Um, we didn't

have that before, you know. So yes, I definitely think it contributes for sure. But that's a good thing because then now we have an earlier chance of finding what we need to work on and how we can Yeah, and now we can get in there from a young age. I feel like we may know some people who now in our adult life was just like oh, such and such was just kind of socially awkward growing up. But then as an adult you be like, wait, maybe he

might have been autistic and we just didn't know. And there is a spectrum, So there's there's ac so high functioning because I know some high functioning people now who I think may have been autistic, but some people just crazy. I look at my wife, to look at my wife, and I'm just like that, this isn't she made? You really needed to buy all them shoes? You needed to? That was a poor decision. Deal with? What sense is that? Really?

Monitors a fifth eighth sense that I don't know it at C E N T S. That's the sense you're be spending a lot of sense and making no sense so UM. The Americans Association of School Administrators conducted a survey of more than five hundred superintendents across the country in June. When asked what they struggled to provide UM as schools switched to distance learning, the number one response

was special education systems. That's that's huge because you think about parents who uh, not only have to work and try to provide a life for these children, but then don't even know how to adequately special needs, Yeah, particularly special needs. How are they working with their children now? With limited resources of superintendent said that they were finding

it hard to do so. Where many people may have had, you know, a place to bring their child who with special needs, or had maybe attendant that came in, now they don't have any of them. Schools provided that. So I guess my question is how far of a setback is this for children? You figure it's only been a couple of months, like we said, it feels like a year, but how do you see an impact in how this

is going to affect children long term? Haven't had this situation that we're in for the past few months and some of that going to be corrective later. Like I almost feel like this this generation of children who are school age are set back so far right now, I feel like a lot of our kids, even because of COVID,

we're afraid to come back into the clinic. And they were you know, struggling with some serious, um, you know, sensory concerns and seeing them now as they're more likely to come back into the clinic, it's you obviously will feel you see a complete digression. Yeah, like now we have to kind of you know, work harder. Um. So yeah, it is, it is. I would suggest if your child is an OT or has been an AT to get

them back in OT as soon as possible. UM. I know for us, we've taken huge measures of being very safe with the following the CDC guidelines and making sure everything is sanitized. But um and I know most clinics that I know of are as well. UM, So getting back into the sessions is most helpful because yeah, just leaving it to you know, watching all of that progress all of a sudden started to decline, being a whole setback.

You know what I would tell parents, Um, And we do this with our boys, and we were doing this before distance learning started. We always incorperate physical activity but also arts and craft because we have our youngest son, Kaz and cats is very different than the other boys. But Kas loves to feel like. He loves to play

in the dirt, he loves saying, he loves water. So we feel like we always wanted to make that part of his routine because when he's able to do those things, he then feels better afterwards, you know, So we try to make sure that arts and craft is always an important part. Plato, he loves Plato. Have to watch him so he doesn't eat it. However, he likes the experiment

with it. He's eating everything. But it's it's amazing because parents with multiple children, you have to now evaluate each child, and that's why we talk about how important it is to make sure that you're engaging with each child on a certain level so that way you know what to look for whenever. And each child is a unique case, especially when it comes to OT. You know, um, there's not one answer for all. It's very much specific to the child and the child's ccific needs from a sensory

perspective for sure. So that's why the evaluation from an OT is always the most important part because then you'll get the specific response for that child or a specific treatment. Well, I also know that every family can't afford an OT so are there certain things that are family Like if you can give some advice to a family that has children who are middle school elementary that you feel like, listen, this child may have a case. What are the resources

or what could they do at home to help? Um? Yeah, I mean when it comes to the virtual stuff and when it comes to focus and attention, I would say, just prioritize getting all of those little sensory gadgets. Um, whatever your child may be seeking, whatever sensory output their experiencing or they're needing, just facilitate that. Okay, if you can't sit still, let's do exactly what you guys are pretty much doing, you know, let's facilitate what we can to make sure our child is able to focus and

pay attention. But no, ultimately, if you are below the age of three, the regional center services are free. So that's good to a lot of people don't know that regional center. So if you contact your nearest regional center and say, I think my child is having these concerns, could you please evaluate, um, they should be able to guide you in the right directions and then also um from that point on into the school district as well. I mean, I know Black people fear getting their children

evaluated because they fear label. You know, the label is tough for black people, and a lot of the parents we dealt with didn't want to get their kid even talk about how important it is to get their children evaluate even even if so and a lot of the times it's not even a label that you'll get a lot of the times it's more so, okay, there's some sensory concerns here that we can work with, and you know, we work with it, but it's it's it's more detrimental

for the child if they don't if they have autism, or they have something that needs to be labeled and they don't get it to them until later, then they've just really really done a disservice to their child. So I would suggest and and and a lot of the times it's also not um, you know, it's not autisome. It's possibly a sensory processing concern or something that we can work with in the clinic. That's not you know, um so stigmatized, but it's doing more of it. It's

a stigma. Yeah, a segment around the label. It's almost like someone going to seek therapy, you know something, there's a stigma around therapy. It's like, oh, you're not right

in your head. If you have to go speak to someone about the way you're feeling, especially in the community, for sure, that needs to change, because if you don't, if you don't get the help, you're doing the bigger, the bigger disservice to your loved ones, to yourself, to your children, the disservices coming on in a higher level than than just living with it and acting like everything is perfectly fine. Um. And it'll catch up to you in the end, especially when you know that a lot

of this can be corrected. If you wait until fifteen to get a diagnosis, well, we could have done so much more, you know what I mean? UM, So what's the point in I understand the stigma, I understand the reasons behind being scared, But I encourage UM, parents UM to do the right thing by their child and get

the necessary diagnosis if needed. UM. But evaluation, I would encourage the same thing because, UM, the stigma comes from a lack of trust that black people have for healthcare professionals, Specifically,

if they don't look like them. So a lot of the black moms and dads that we had come through prototypes like I'll take him to go see someone, but they got to be black, because you know, if you don't understand black culture, if you don't understand black people, when you look at things, you look at things through a lens that everything they do is wrong, almost feeling like you want someone who can relate to your particular struggles or thomas that you may have had to endure

the same thing with a midwife. When I was seeking a midwife, I was like, let me find the blikty blackest one because I'm like, she's going to understand that black women are dying, you know, during childbirths. You know, black babies are dying at a way faster rate and our white counterparts. So I think that's super important and and I mean, do you see diversity in your field?

I do absolutely had a lot of a lot of incredible um African American otis that we have a lot of doctors, of a lot of people doing amazing, amazing things in the field. So we got no excuses, No, we got no excuses. No, it's definitely a friend of mine found out that her son was autistic very early on, and I applaud her because she has been super involved and invested in making sure he has every resource available.

They're based in New York, UM, so she said that she was just surprised at how many you know, available resources were literally at her finger tip, she sh she posted her son's schedule like on a on a weekly schedule, and he had this therapy, that person, this person, you know, literally every person was in a time slot to ensure that he was getting this total package and help that

he needed. And I really applauded her, and I was happy that she was letting people know because, like we said, but the stigma, she could have been like, well, I'm not going to show my baby as much because he is autistic. Instead, she's empowering people to speak up about it, you know, and in inspiring people to say, you know what, get your child checked out if you see something is not you know, normal. And many times it is a collaborative effort, you know, it is the O T, the PT,

the speech with the speech language polishes. It is a whole bunch of people working together to help this child, you know, live the best life possible. And as independently as possible, and you see a huge difference from kids we've seen. We've had children that have been with us since a few months old, now you know, a few years old, and you see a huge, huge, significant growth in difference. If parents are consistent with going to therapy, showing up so making the effort doing what they need

to do. If a parent is inconsistent, you will also see the change. You'll see that in the in the therapy results. Is that frustrating for you, Like if you see a child who has the potential to be so

much farther along, so frustrating, it's so frustrating. So many times we do see kids who need the therapy so desperately and parents are like, oh, well, you know, I've got this, or they don't under I think they misunderstand ot because they don't understand that through the guys of play, there's a lot going on, and in their mind it's like, Okay,

they're just playing. I don't know. So with this book, I kind of wanted to shed light on the fact that yes, we are doing play like activities, but if you understand the senses, if you'll understand through a story like perspective, you know, um, what could be happening with your child and how you could be fixing it and how we are actually working on these things in the clinic that maybe you'll give it a little bit more of an understanding of Okay, I need to put emphasis

a lot of the times I'll be like, oh, speech is more important. Speech is more important. It's like, absolutely, speech is important. But there's a huge component here in OT that you're missing, um, and you see it in the child. You see the child not reaching the max's potential and that is there a link between sensory issues and or the approach that you take as an OT and like the Montessori method because I know that learning

method is a lot of play bass for us. At first, I was kind of like they play all day, Like what does that mean? I think you could play at home? Like what am I paying you? Um? And then we kind of like brought into the sauce at one point with Cairo for a little bit. He wasn't feeling that particular school and in particular, but I know that there's some amazing people who have sent children sent their children to Montessori schools for years and they saw amazing, um,

you know, amazing results with their children. So is there a direct link you think between like the sensory Manta Story method. Yeah, I mean it's there is. I'm sure sensory perspectives in the Montessori method, Montessori being the educational component and sensory processing being more of a medically driven product. Um. But yes, I mean, I'm sure they incorporate I wasn't went to Montessori as a child myself, and they do

incorporate a lot of sensory activities into it. And there is a I guess a kind of link, but they're two very there's still two separate up in the exact opposite of Montessori. We were in school where you had to sit your ass down, do not if you were fidgeting, you get hit with a ruler. Which now I'm starting to think about how many men think about how many behavioral issues they weren't. There were a lot of kids that I think about it. You know better now, you

do better. But the punishment was a thing in the school of the Deval went to the same elementary school. He stayed for a couple of years. I stayed throughout the entire elementary and like junior high school phase of life. But the people who were able to thrive in there were super successful. But there were a lot of people who left Bethlehem in and now that I think about it, you never gave them a chance to work through their sensory issues. If they had, you considered, my goodness, it

was the actual opposite. It was do not move. If you move, you get popped with the ruler. Children that say something or spoke out a turn or anything, there was like a consequence for that. And I woke couple it by saying that there was a lot of love in that school to as hard as it may seem, but there was a lot of love in that school

as well and a general care for the child. But I also we spoke about generational traumas and like how we came to um pass down these ways of child rearing that they deemed necessary at the time when years ago, like you know, you gotta keep a black channel line by like beating them and making sure that they know there's consequences for their action. So I never want to say that we were in a very hostile environment at that time, but both a successful as we are because

in part because of Bethlehm Baptist Academy. But I do also understand that there are certain things that I allowed Jackson to do because I've learned better, that my mom would have never allowed me to do. For example, that my mother would have got me a chair that does not turn, does not swore, but the back cannot move. I would not have any toys, no devices, no devices,

no phones. But Jackson gets to sit at his laptop with his device, with his toys, in a chair that moves because it allows him to find a way to focus. That was the exact opposite. I would have been in all white room with one chair, in a notebook and

just had, you know, just had to work like that. Yeah, And that's why I feel like it's so import to provide the education and the awareness because then other parents will also start to see things the way you do, and other teachers will start to see things the way you do and start to understand, Okay, there's more to that, and there's better ways that we can handle this for the development of the child. And it's important now, especially with so much distant learning. But you don't have the

run right because we have to do listener letters. But before we do listening letters. We have to take a quick break, so you go. We love to get an expert perspective on what people right in. So yeah, we'll come back after we pay some bills. Pay some bills because you're seeing sense all things that I lacked common sense, but I really don't bending sense as long as it's a deal. Long, can you go pay these bills so I can just pay for whatever it is? And she

just described we'll be back. All right, we're back. I went and paid mad bills. I went in stripped too, so I can help, you know, cover whatever the lack is. I gotta make ends meet, gotta make ends meet. You did something strange for a little change. I had to the way you spend money. But we are back now, we gotta listening. Let us right. Like I said before,

we have Rema Naim with us, doctor doctor. Anybody who go to school for nine years, it deserves to be called doctor, because I did four and it felt like wright. So we are back with Dr ne Rema Naim, and we're gonna answer these listener letters. We have one today. I'm gonna start reading out loud. I am a married mom. She is with two sons. And a daughter ages seven through twelve. Even when school was operating normally, advocating for our children could be very difficult now with virtual learning.

What tips would you have for parents on how to best advocate for your child and ensure that their needs are being met. You know, Rema loves to advocate for X and X is only eight months. The best advocate, especially when they are a creative, active child that learned best through creative and in person interaction. How do we advocate for these children during this time? I mean I would suggest contacting and reaching out to the schools. I

know that it's difficult. I know it's hard, but reaching out to them and just advocating for you know, any kind of aid or any kind of help that you can get within the home system. I do know of some parents who have been able to get help. Is this locally? Is this from Californa? Is this calum She doesn't say exactly who we are, but if we are, if they are in California, then yeah, I believe that there are ways to go around it. I know it's difficult.

I know the school district and everything is a really hard process. I can totally sympathize with that, but I would suggest continuing to advocate as much as you can and trying to reach out and trying to get you know as much um uh, you know, as many resources as you can to get an aid or to get some kind of help within the home system. I agree, you know what I would do already know what K would do because it wouldn't mean she would be on it. But KA is not afraid of moving our children, especially

with remote learning. You can remote learn with any school, any curriculum. So if that curriculum does not fit with your child, hey, you know what, I may have to remove my child from this situation and try to find a remote learning curriculum that works with helps them moving forward. That's what I would do because you know, as much as I don't like to be it has a negative connotation helicopter parent or like being over your child. For me,

it's not about being a helicopter mom. It's about being involved, Like there's a difference, you know what I mean, and knowing what I'm looking for with my child. Us moms, dad's we know our children best, right, So if you see that there's a deficit or you know that something may impede their progress. I'm I'm the queen of pivoting and just pulling them from whatever it needs and then finding the resources. So one thing I know is what

I don't know. So if I don't know something, I'm the first to try to find resources or asking um, you know, friends, asking an expert, asking a friend who may know somebody who knows somebody, and getting a referral that way. And I mean, there's levels two needs that children have that need to be meant um for us. The simplest thing so far just to even get that

in person interaction for the children together. It's just creating a safe space of families who we know have been you know, quarantining, have been laying low, Your kids haven't been in school. My kids haven't been in school. So definitely have happened. We found our community where we feel

safe because we definitely don't take COVID lightly. So there's a certain community where saying, okay, y'all have been at home, we've been at home for the most part, we can then get our children together and then create small play group environments where the kids can get together in play safely. And I think that's very necessary. Jackson says. He misses the interaction that he used to have with his classmates,

and I get it. Yeah, And I mean, we've not been through this before, so we don't know what the long term situation is going to be. Everything is so up in the air, and so, you know, so it is important to make sure that you're giving them similar activities or similar things that they were doing beforehand, but in a safe space, in a safe, controlled space. I will say this too. I'm going to look at the

camera directly when I say this. For all the parents who are now advocating for their kids, advocating advocating, you said something that I would I would challenge. You said that we know our kids best. I challenged that because these kids spend six to eight hours with these teachers every day. And I hear a lot of my friends and other people saying on social media all that stuff I was saying about my son when he was acting crazy, and I was telling the teacher that I know my child.

I do not know this person because I've been in the house with them for four months now, so it's like who am at home with? Because this is not the child I was advocating for before, and they're behaving the way the teachers said they were behaving in class, and of course your children are completely different around you and act around their classmates and the teachers. So I would say the parents give grace to educators when we're going through this as well, because educate educators are also

learning how to maneuver through COVID. So even though you want to add advocate as much as possible, give grace and allow it to work and stuff out a little bit before you jump the gun. That's true because I'm definitely a gun jumper and to be like, no, I know that my son is not capable of this. You know, these kids just surprised us every day. But you know when I did say that, you know what I mean. Yeah,

I like that you like to play Devil's advocate. But it's just like we have that maternal instinct to know when something is wrong or not go with your gut.

I would say now, and I think as parents now, especially when you're watching your children in UM these home settings, realizing and learning and understanding that if you're seeing things that are out of the norm for you, if you think this is something that's different, UM, if they're you know, behaving, UM, you know where they can't focus, they can't pay attention, they're super super you know, all over the place. And you never knew this about your child before because you

weren't in this position with them. That is what I think is important to take that and realize, Okay, maybe you know this isn't behavior. I don't need to yell at him, or you know, maybe there is something else happening here, and just to keep that in mind, um, and not to be so quick to jump and be like, oh my kid is and she took my moment of truth that we do a moment of truth at the end, But that was perfect. That was like, I know, that's

a nice segway to moment of truth. Exactly. It's pretty much like what we've taken away from this show because we love for people to have takeaways like what can we gather from the conversation, So usually we sum up the end of the show with a moment of truth, so we might as well segait it. You know, you I mean, my my moment of truth. Even last night I created a post before you came here and that said that just because your child won'ts it still doesn't

mean they have a behavioral issue. We need to investigate what other options we have before we just throw medication and labels at them. Go see someone and see if there's something else going on, you know, and that that was it, like that he may still have a behavioral issue, but he or she may not. So before we just

run there, let's try to exhaust all options. And this to me is a viable option because I've seen sensory issues with kids over the past decade solve a lot of problems on kids who were both medicated and unmedicated. So I'm an advocate for them also just to find just to say this, if you do see these sensory issues, of sensory concerns and they're not impeding your child's daily life. Your child is completely learning and going to school fine, and you know it's minor um, you know, it's okay.

It's not something to say, oh my god, my child is you know, itching because they have a sweater on. This is something I need to be concerned with. I know, I'm super um you know, aware and hyper where under the arm page I weren't addressed the armad all itchy and it gives you a whole rest but just now that as long as it's not in pacting daily life, as long as it's not infecting their daily life, they can still function there. Okay you know then, you know right,

it's fine. Don't all y'all flood uh Rema's page now I put him in wool. It has to be something that's affecting the child from a first Well, if you're gonna flood Rema's page, we can find flood her page for this amazing book here. First of all, I love that the cover is super attractive and colorful, diverse characters. Okay, I feel like many children can look and see someone who potentially looks like like them, you know what I mean, boy or girl? Oh my goodness. And I love that

this is to your son. Yeah. We dedicated our book to all three boys to Yeah. Absolutely, so tell everybody, Oh do my moment of truth. I just thought about it because well that's real quick. Um, we're in uh temporary situation. Okay, I'm putting it out there. This is in the interim. As much as we need grace, we to give our children grace, give them a space to

feel as if they can be themselves. And in being themselves, I think that really brings us down to the core of then assessing what potentially maybe a deficit or behavioral issue or a sensory issue or whatever the case may be. UM, but just really trying to clock in as a parent and see, Okay, what exactly maybe triggering this is just just something temporary, like the time that we're in because of the situation that we're in where children are at home.

Is it something that likely go back to normal once we have our normal back. So just give our children grace as much as we would expect that as adults, because I feel like sometimes as parents or as adults, we tend to be like, well, sit still do that, but you know, we're giving our kids orders all the time, where if we just kind of take a step back and just say, you know what, honey, I understand that this is like a really you know, strange situation that we're in. I would love for you to be in

school with your friends. I would love for you to have this particular you know, playroom or classroom setting. Um. Just letting them be and then moving from there because it is a huge change for them and realizing as much as it's affecting you, it's really really them. That is my day's round, just trying to keep it together. Okay, all right, Rema. So Dr Rema Nam tell everyone where they can find you, where they can find your book them.

This is the first book in a series, um and it's called The Adventures of the Sense of Kids, and it's basically the Sense of Kids, who are four sensory characters that represent the sensory systems we work with and they're like minyot s, So we basically educate parents on the senses and then we have a story. This one is focused on the tactile sense of a child who's having a hard time adequately processing tactile information and how

she calls on the Sense of Kids. They magically appear and they pretty much do activities we would do in the clinic, but home based activities. Doctor Rema doesn't, doesn't She looked just so they call it Doctor Rema to them, so she called She's pretty much the narrator and she starts off basically explaining what the senses are. Then we go into introducing the sense of Kids, so you know who the Sense of Kids are, and then we go

into the story. This is very in depth. I love it, so pretty and At the end there's a parent teacher education page which explains in a little more complicated language, um, what the character in the story was dealing with and how the sense of kids helped her and why those

activities were helpful for her. And the first the first is um, the touch sense, and then we're going to come out with more on the vestibular and the probe and the other senses to give a little bit more educational senses that I found out about today today, years old. Where can I find you on social media at OT Studios l A fabulous So you've got all the tea right there now, all right now, and be sure to find us on social media, y'all. Um, then ask the

podcast on Instagram. Yes, and I am devout And if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, be sure to rate, review and subscribe. Dr Reema, thank you so much for We'll see you. I'll be there pushing waits tomorrow. Mop. I'm start using that pushed the way baby pushed away. Dead Ass is a production of I Heart Media podcast Network and is produced by the Noorrapinia and Triple Follow the podcast on social media at dead As to podcasts and never miss a Thing