Smack It, Flip It, Rub It Down

Go listen to see I buy. When it comes to getting it in in the bedroom, I find myself trying to find ways to reinvent things over and over again so I could bust a wide open differently. Well, the real problem is that I just like having sex with you too much and I don't get tired of it. So good luck trying to find a way to keep it up, because I just love having sex with you, baby. With all that. Hey, I'm Cadine and we're the Ellis. You may know us from posting funny videos with our

boys and reading each other publicly as a form of therapy. Wait, I'll make you need derby most days. Wow. Oh, and one more important thing to mention, we're married, Yes, sir, we are. We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of the live's most taboo topics, things most folks don't want to talk about through the lens of a millennial married couple. Dead ass is a term that we say every day. Where we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts one, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing

but the truth. We're about to take Philow's off to a whole new level. Dead ass starts now. So after seventeen years and about six days together, you know, I'm always trying to find ways to just make things a little bit different, make it a little spicy, without having

to bring any other human beings into the bedroom. So I was at the Mom Friends back in May, shout to the girls who put on the Mom Friends, and um, we were talking about everything mom, love, household related and in that one of the boots that they had, you know at the market place was lust for Love Okay, And this was particularly interesting because I had my mom

with me at the Mom Friends. So we passed the table of candles, we passed the table of you know, band aids for children of color, and then we passed the table of vibrators and dildos with my mom who is probably the most conservative person that I know, especially when it comes to sex. So we strolled past the table, and of course I had to stop because I know it made her uncomfortable. So of course I had to go and like touch a dildo in front of my mom,

just because, just because. But I also was thinking, you know what, this is probably God's way of saying, Cadine, you stumbled upon this table of dildos and vibrators, maybe you should go and be a consumer of the dildos and the vibrators. So at that point I spoke with the young lady you know, who was also on a panel that spoke about spicing up things in the bedroom sexual intimacy, got her Instagram page and I hit her up after and I was like, sis, listen, I was

given a sign that I need to patron your business. Okay, so send me some of your best seller sists, whatever it is, send me your best sellers. And I went ahead and I supported her business, you know, made my payment on PayPal, and I was looking out for this package. And the package came and I'm hoping up the package literally and I was just like, wow, now I have to find a way to introduce these toys into the bedroom.

How is the valuing respond to this? M hmm, good loving, they're rocking knocking, not long meg love to the Bregadne, Oh, come on our harmonies. I don't know what key you were in, but you were. You know I was in the key of D for devote with it. I love that song. That song will never die. It's on our playlist whenever we get ready to knock the boots. You gotta work on your tune though, like you gotta hold the ears because about being here, like a real throwback

R and B singing. Hold you got to everything you got to. But let me next time, let me know what key you're gonna be in, so I could try to do the alternate key because this key good love and body knocking boots, that's the key on me. All right, y'all. So you know we spoke about sex and every which way possible. I feel like we talked about sex at all. Devout come on like literally every episode, no matter how serious the topic is, Devout finds a way to slide

it in there. I'm private, I like slide stuff. You're so annoying, you up, you know what you think? By now? All these years of dealing with you, I would know how to even just like frame my statement so that they don't allow for you to just make a sexual comment about it. But anyway, I figured, if we're going to talk more about sex, we might as well talk to someone who is a specialist in sex, what we

would call a sexologist, you know. So we have somebody in the in the house today who knows a little something about something, Shann House. You know what, I never know a podcast when to jump out the cake one? Is it my time to be like here? So yes, I just told you and shan't give him a full name, Shan Boo dram. I also go buy Shan booty online and manage expectations. Booty is a playoff my last name,

not my anatomy. Then we go though considering what you do, it makes sense, it makes sense, But I just like I think sometimes people are some people read it Shann body, and it's just like not like that in real life, you know, my So sex is a highly contested conversation in our relationship, so I don't know that already. So we've brought in a sex allergist to help us settle our differences. If that's possible learn a thing or two on how to keep things spicy for each other as well.

So you are Shannon Expert Um and Intimacy, hosts of Facebook's Makeup or break Up, author, writer, YouTube star, and we are so excited to have you on the show today. So thank you for coming so big right now. I like people read the bio. I don't know why I tried to. I was trying to memorize it, but my brain's fried at this point. But you wanted me to keep it short, so I try to keep it short. It was short, sweet and beautiful. Point. I wonderful, wonderful thing.

My production team for that. Yeah, shout out to the production deep. So let me tell you, um, So then I have been together. We just celebrated seventeen years together. So we've grown together in so many ways. We've grown together sexually, We've grown a part I feel like at some point sexually. But we're married and we're committed, and we've always tried to find ways to reinvent things for ourselves in the bedroom. You know, um, Devource requests certain

things for me. I may not come through with the things the way he likes it, but you know, I try sometimes sometimes I don't try. Sometimes you try all the time, like we both try our hardest, you know, to make sure that we're both pleased and satisfied. I just have come to this like actuality, that the things that I want and I like are not necessarily the

things that she wants she likes. So at one point in my life, I was under the assumption that, hey, this is my wife, We're going to find that mesh where we both like everything that each other likes. And it just never happened. And I finally got to the point now where's like, it's never gonna happen, so let's try to figure out what we can do. However, I still trying to find ways. So like my story time, I talked about trying to find um spice and toys.

You know. I bumped into a young lady that would sell some things, and I was like, hey, send me, send me your best sellers, you know, let's see what works. Let's throw it into bedroom. And then div sometimes looks at it like if it looks like me, like me, I don't know if I want to play with it. I'm not with the toy thing that's just not mine. And then I've realized, well, maybe some toys are just made for me or some are just made for him. So we're still trying to navigate things as we try

to reinvent things. So tell me chan you know, people, people got to know what exactly is a sexologist. There's so many questions I have for you, guys, But I mean, I'll start answering and then hey, we can go both ways with this. And I love that you referred to me as a sex specialist because it sounds like I'm in there with like a tool kit and just an entire bag of tricks. Um, a sexologist is to sex, It's easy to think about it, like a nutritionist is to food. So a sexologist is the study of sex

as it relates to biology, psychology, coromonology, sociology. Really, so, sexologists, like nutritionists, can show up in a lot of different formats. You can work in a clinic, you can work for with a one to one practice, you can write curriculum, you can work for pharmaceuticals. I am a public facing sex and relationship educator, so I write books, I know, consult for TV shows, I consult for different projects. I work with some pharmaceuticals, but that's how I do it.

But there are sexologists who are Sara Gates and a Saragate workers somebody who literally will come and um have a sexual relationship with somebody and you have to be prescribed from a therapist to do that. So there's a variety of different word Yeah, so they would be I

guess in more ways of sex specialists. So you can coming in prescribed a side check more or less or what sounds like I do so if if so, for example, if I wasn't hitting it the right way, she could go see a doctor and come back with a note and say, devile. Listen, my doctor prescribes. I don't want to make fun of it, but it's essentially that's what

it is. Yeah, but more less it would be like if you have vaginismus, and that's for women, is really painful sex, like almost the think about a Charlie horse that you get in your ankle when you have a really bad cramp. Some women's vaginal canal experiences at during before penetration, and so if every time they went to

go and get intimate their partner, they would get this spasming. Sarah, it might be able to come in and help and figure out what the trauma and the touch points are what people who have like certain special needs, for example, who have a hard time figuring out how to have pain free sex. And so there's a variety of reasons. I haven't heard of one yet. That's just like man and my partner's not doing the best. They could slade somebody in here. I haven't heard that, but I'm sure

all things are possible. Oh my god. So tell me how you discovered that this was your calling? Yeah, you know what. Honestly, I think passion is often thought about or your purpose is something you have to find and go towards, And for me, I think it was just rediscovering and going back. I was fascinated by touch and by the human body. And I also grew up in a Caribbean household and the whole like what guyana is

my dad? Yes? Yes, yes, okay, And I went to a Catholic school, so a lot of my natural curiosities were really repressed, and so I lost touch with my sexuality. And when I started to engage in sex, misinformed by porn by books like The Coldest Winterever, I read that a couple of times, fly girls, Do you fly girl by and in all those books, if you were called it was like their first sexual experience. They didn't even have to have got like an inchant. They were orgasm

and melting. And that set my expectations. And so when I turned nineteen, I had several partners, zero orgasm, zero connection, And I thought to myself, Okay, I've been looking forward to this thing my whole life and it's been completely trash. So what now? Do I just give up on it or do I try to restart my own education? And so I restarted at nineteen. I had a book come out at twenty four called Late, and then ten years later I put out my second book. So I've been

in the space for thirteen years. Wow. I want to be honest, it would be extremely intimidating to me to try to have sex with the sex best list as a man like you walk in this room, like listen, she know everything about this. I don't know what I'm She's probably been seen everything that has to be intimidating for any man that is going to try and date you or please you. I think it is. I mean

it's possible. I wouldn't probably have sex with somebody who looked at it in that intimidation way because it just would you tell them that you was a sex cologist. Yeah, I mean I can't deny that. Yeah, yeah, yes, there's no hiding it. It's just is. But I also too, I think a good sexual partner acknowledges that every you're

you're never an expert on somebody else. I cannot please your wife more than you can, Like your seventeen years of experience will trump any book that I've read, any course or seminar that I've been to, and I would like to think so I will definitely I'm understand. I don't even have to try to know that that's true. So I think that a good person somebody to me who's good at sex is somebody who's like more of a tourist than a tour guide to someone else's body.

And so I know, I actually get red flags if anybody is like, I'm amazing in the bedroom, I'm awesome, I'm great, and that's about them and it's not about their part right, And then they get in there and they're like, look at all my tricks, and you're like, I see what you're ex liked, she said, look at all my tricks that's how dudes beat oop. I ain't gonna lot. Me and my friends were talking, you know, you have sex with girl first, only YA dropped that

grade eight. You know I did that thing where I do the hip toss and then I pull the leg back. I know that's what gotta that's met and then she don't call you back and then got to inverted uterus and it's uncomfortable for her. Right. So yeah, I just think that anybody who claims to be amazing at sex, I would raise eyebrows for no, for sure. So with guys possibly being intimidated by you, do you ever feel any kind of pressure, like, man, I have to like bust it down, go wait off the top, like I

don't know nothing Like this news to me. You are new to me, like teach me, Like can I watch what you do? Can we ask tons of questions? So I like go in there being like listen, I'm a novice in the X in the realm of you, Yeah, saying keep asking questions. I mean after seventeen years, I still ask a lot of questions. We had great sexy or the other night, and I still after it was it was very nice. It was very nice. She did this new thing where she likes to be on the

side and she throw her right leg up right. So it was kind of like, um, I'm trying to describe it so people could see it, but not be too graphic, because I know my kids are gonna hear this at some point in their life. But this was new. And I said in the middle, was like, Yo, this is new. You know what I'm saying. And I realized that I really liked it like that. I'm just like, okay, So I could tell in her response to that. Then I was like, oh, this is the direction I'm going to

keep going. Even though I was on your side or were you know, I was still I was on my side, poisted a leg over his shoulder, and then my other leg was underneath him, and I was straddling her leg, but she was side kind of like a lock. It was a lot. It was like a completely different angle than we've done it right, and it was just hitting something that was just quite right. And I was like, and that's what I'll be looking for it though, like whenever we have sex, I'm trying to look for her

response to see that that's working. And I said to her right afterwards, like that seemed like you enjoyed that a lot more than recently, and she's just like, no, no, that's I like that. So we have conversations after I love that, which is what we still try to do now here we are seventeen years later, but still always having the desire to learn and then unlearned. Because the other day he was doing something and I was like,

I don't really like that anymore. I thought I did and I used to at one point, but no, Like we laughed and joke. We had Kevi on stage and his wife on They also have a podcast to Love Our So we were talking about like things that are green lights, things that are red lights, things that are yellow, flashing yellow, flashing yellow, the delayed yellow. You know that

that's yellow, that's like there forever the flashing reds. So you know, I had the conversation with him like I don't really like that anymore, and he's just had but you used to love that, and I'm like, not so much anymore. So we always are having the conversations about it. So what does your advice? How do you navigate when you're speaking with couples who have been together in long term relationships? Yeah, I would say, like, the brain is not that hard to pimp out, right, Like the brain

likes new, so whatever whatever happens. Like, there's there's two types of um there's passionate love and companionate love. And passionate love is when your brains on autopilot. When you first get together, you're getting all of the chemical cocktails, right, the dopamine hits and the neckprophine and then and the oxytoasted, and then it just feels fire and the butterflies are there. You don't have to even do much. The person could

just blow on you and you feel that feeling. But over time love shift a companionate love where you're now in the driver's seat, like you have to manually create those exact same feelings. And one of my favorite um Dr Helen Fisher was saying that if people continue to have that same rush of adrenaline, that like burst of butterflies every time their partner was around, it would shorten their life expectancy because, yeah, that that dump of adrenaline

damages your tissue. Yeah, so I told you, actually it wasn't gonna work. About told you it wasn't gonna work. You always be looking for reasons. Right is a scientific fact. Here, You're like talking about scientific facts. She has scientific You had something. But this was my thing, I said. When we first met, we used to just touch each other

and it felt like everything I said. I want to feel that every time I touch you, Like I hate when we have these moments when months go by and we don't kiss or we don't hug, and it's like you barely touched the person. I used to like like rub her leg and I would feel her get like goose bumps. And now it's like I rubbed her leg and she was like, can you not touch me? And I'm like, okay, you used to like when I touch your leg. Now I can't touch. It's just going to happen. Though.

It took the same thing if you went to the sushi restaurant and you had an incredible crunchy role and it blew your mind. If you go to that same restaurant and had the same cuntry role for seventeen years, it's just not going to give you that exact same wow experience. And I would still be good in its own way. But the good thing is, though, in order to get back that feeling of the new to get that rush again. It's little tweaks. It's little things that

make it new again to the brain. And so you want to excite the risk and reward center doing something like doors, keeping the door cracked a little bit open so maybe people might be able to hear or maybe like you have this like rush of we have to hurry up, or doing it where you change the light bulb to red, so it's like a different atmosphere environment that think it's very sexy that that, you know, don't not say that too. Sometimes we were in a hotel

once and the light was kind of different. I was like, oh, this is the sexy light, and yeah, you do the lighting is good. If the lights too bright, she's not into it. But maybe one time the light being very bright might be. It's just making sure that like again, like the brain gets a little bit of something different. You're an athlete, you know this as well too, Like your muscles start to get dull to an activity to

do repeatedly. Get to change it up, even just a little bit, right, even if it's decreasing or increasing the weight by a couple you'll see a different response. So it's the same thing I think when people think about spicing up in the bedroom. They're like, let's go to Cancoon. Let's find us like a little senorita at a local bar. Let's have a threesome. It's like you or you could just simply change the direction of your bad and see how that works. You could do like my wife does.

My wife, for whatever reason, gets turned on when her parents are somewhere in the house. Yeah, that's like like we'll be at her sorry, mom and dad. Yeah, we'll be at her parents house and she let's stay here and parents, I don't care. So then they're upstairs, mom, and she just touched me, and I'm like, yo, yo, what do you do with come on? Come on? Days?

That reminds me almost like when we first met and you're like trying to like get it there real quick, Like I'm like, hell no. One time, one time, we're in his parents house and his mom this is like years ago, and his mom sent me downstairs to get peas out of the deep freezer. So I was like, come down staying for me to get the peace and it was like I couldn't find the piece because why we were getting it into the laundry room and then we didn't come up with the piece. We was down

there mad long. I forgot what we went down there for. I was. Mom was like, where's the peace? And I'm like, oh yeah. But at first though she called me downstairs, I'm like, you really can't find a piece. I always got to do everything. I go to there, and she's like pulling on me and stuff. I'm like, yo, stop stop, I do not want to do this. She always wants to happen now, and I'm just like I'm tired. Yeah, I'll be trying to pull into the closet and stuff.

So let me let me ask this after after couples have identified like you know what, we have some issues with intimacy. Okay, where's a good place for them to start? Like her drive exchanged a lot since having the boys, which we knew what was going to happen, just chemically that was going to be an issue. But also we've been together seventeen years, Like somebody doesn't want to get plowed out every day for seventeen years. Like this is not gonna happen. We were in college, you know. When

we were in college, it was different. You know, she was like, come on, come on, you're an athlete. Like, let me see now, it's just like yo, bro chill out like he was seventeen years ago. Yeah, I still trained, and I feel guilty because I feel like I can't keep up with his you know, it's like a supplying to man thing going on here and I can't keep

up with it. I mean that happens, and it's like I think compatibility is just like that, Like there's gonna be in every marriage, every relationship, there's gonna be five things like I cannot believe I found somebody who's on the exact same page as me. But whether that is religion or childbearing or finance is there's going to be some things that just click so stupid magically, and there's

gonna be some things that don't. I think we think of sexuality is something that you can't work on though, Like if I talk to couples and they're like, yeah, we're just not sexually compatible, so should we end things? And I'm like no, like you just gotta unless that's a you know, you gotta work on it like anything else. Like there's going to be areas that the connection is just there, and there's gonna be other areas that's just not in flow and that's no problem with that. That's

just going into manual. I'll say, like a basic tip that I have is I have this thing called turn on Triggers, and I have a quiz on my website for this if anybody wants to take it, and essentially it's six different ways that get people in the mood. So going back to in the very beginning, it's just breathing on the other person will get you in the mood because that risk and reward center is lighting up.

Because this is a brand new person, new experience. There's tons of risk happening, and so your brain is gonna respond in that like Heroin esque way. But over time you have to get the brain in that space. And so a manual turn on trigger. And some people might be environmental. Um A lot of like moms I find is environmental where it's like, let me not see dirty clothes in my peripheral you know, I can't focus, or like can we make the bed before the messy e Ben? Yeah?

Can we put some effort in the in the atmosphere, and I mean, can there be a red light on? Can there be some candles burning? Like can we actually make this an experience? A sensory experience, I can actually relax in and not be focused on the billions of chores around with it haven't been done yet. Um. Some people's is desire minus desire, and I just require very specific language that is like your X is so effing X, and I want to do why with your why? And like that to me is every I don't care if

it's dirty, I don't care nothing else. Like if you tell me I'm hot, I feel excited. Um. A lot of men is visual and so it's just like when they it's like a baby, when you see something you want to put in your mouth, and so it's just like putting that extra attention. See you every day? He sees every day. Yeah, you know what's funny? And I was gonna ask you are there is there any truth to some of the miss you here? Like, for example, a lot of my boys who are married in long

term relationships complaining about I don't get enough sex. So we've you know, brought it down to a science that women just don't want to have sex as much as us. Then we're trying to figure out why is that, you know, why does it seem like when a woman wants to be in a relationship, she's willing to have more sex, but then once she gets into a relationship, it just automatically stop. Is there any science to that, because it seems like that seems to be pretty consistent amongst all

of my friends. Like they'll meet a girl and him and her have sex every day, multiple times a day. The minute it's like, okay, we're monogamous. Now it's like cut off. Yeah, I mean, I guess like there's a reproductive science in terms of just like the motivation for a man who can have kids up until eighty and it's just as for a Chile is a lot higher than for a woman who after a while there's really no like biological payoff in terms of how there is

a science behind her is. But to be honest with you, I would just say, like there's another there's other great books. So they're like called What Women Want that just like debunk any myth that there's a difference in how men and women um want, desire, perceive, and like think about sex. And so there's science on both side. Think that you can I'm whatever you're looking for. I can tell you the amount of couples that I've spoken to where it's

the other way around. I was gonna say, I have a couple of people that I know where it's the opposite. The female is actually wanting more and the male isn't. So I don't know. I know, like you have your group of friends and that seems to be the consensus with them, But especially if that's a group of friends, like you're not gonna have the one dude in the group who doesn't side with you. Guys be like, well, actually my wife is kind of the freak and I'm

not interested. That's that's true. I don't think they would honestly say that. I also do think it matters on the type of friends you have. All of my friends were athletes or are athletes, so we still all train, particularly like like we still play ball. So for example, I do have a guy who's reached out to me. It was being the opposite, but he says that, um, he doesn't like the way his body looks. Um, he

let himself go. He's not as confident, so he doesn't want to have sex with his wife as much, mainly because he feels he's going to feel her desires, because he feels like he's no longer what she wants a vulnerable conversation shouting out to that dude able to encourage to say that I was when he space for a lot of people, a lot of guys, and they won't they'll see me in person, like they won't text me

because they don't want the proof to be anywhere. They'll be like broke, talk me about something real, you know. And then he opened up to me, and then I was just like, um, why do you feel this way? And he was just like, I know what my my wife wants, and I just know that I'm not it. And um, He's like, I don't like to work out and I just don't feel like I can never get back to that. So I shy away from having sex

so I don't constantly disappoint her. And I was like, damn, Like that's but but then I asked myself, well, that's your wife, right. You do want your wife to be happy, right. You can't shy away by not having sex with her. So she's like, what should I do? I said, first, you should diet, get in the gym, be healthy just for yourself. But if you love this woman and you made an oath and a promise to her to be there for her. You have to be there for her.

I think it's unfair man or a woman to just say I don't like the way I looks, so I'm not gonna have sex with you. I do think that that's unfair, and I told him too, especially when you're not having to diet love with your partner. Also to which is expressing your needs, Like there's studies that show that a woman's number one turn on is herself. Like esther perels Um talked about that. It's funny because my follow up to that was gonna be like, well, is

it an issue for her? The way he looks and the way he feels about themselves may not be an issue for her. She may just be like, I just want my husband, I just want the attention. But even if she knew now, she has to overcompensate with compliments,

which is also fair, you know. I mean, I think a lot of dudes could really benefit from overcompensating with compliments, from just saying even if you feel like you said it already, just like even like compliment the taste of her vaginal fluids, like you know, compliment the way that her body smells naturally, because she might be going to this checklist in her head, like I'm spiky, I haven't showered in like two hours, or like I can't do it.

But if you just all of those insecurities by being like you as is right now, I want all of it, I think that makes a massive difference in people's willingness to start to play. You know, it's funny to hear that verbal affirmation. You hear about that with pets, you hear about that with children, but you don't hear about that with your spouse. But it seemed like it would still make sense. Just constant verbal positive affirmation like I'm here for you, I want you, I love you as is.

I think that that could help a lot of people, men and women. And the more specific the better, because sometimes we tend to do like those broad I told you, I love you, I told you I want you, and you're like specific, I want is that you love about me in this moment right now? Yeah, like the hair is in my booty hole are hot to you? Specific stuff?

Oh my goodness, that's what I thought I was the only one with here in my booty but oh my goodness, no hair and moving for the moody because I was like, listen, I can't work, so tell me about your book. You have a book, The Game of Desire. So that about It's essentially what we're talking about right now, just getting

into the driver's seat understanding that. I think when it comes to everything in life, you know, sports, or cooking or even child rearing, there's this understanding that in order to be good at it, you have to enlist the help of experts. You have to read books, you have to research, you have to practice low risk environment. You gotta give yourself space and not be perfect and constantly

challenge yourself. But when it comes to sex and love, it's just like it's if it's not bestowed from the gods, it's not meant to be. It's not going to happen, right, It's not going to happen versus like no, Like, you can actually approach this with a system and a strategy, and you can be good at loving somebody. You can be good at being a good sexual partner. It's not just about chemistry or compatibility or magic. It is a

set a series of skills that anyone can acquire. And so the Game of Desires teaching people how to be more attractive awesome. Did you talk about dating in that, well, Yeah, because we had a lot of questions from people about dating and we kind of feel ill prepared to discuss that because we haven't dated anyone in seventeen years, and you know, it's although you guys are probably everyone's go

to everything. One of your friends go to you the recipe. Yeah, like no, because we're just like, please don't look at us like we are the gurus, because this just works for us and we're still figuring it out day to day. I don't know how to tell someone I don't know because how did you in continue make it work. I'm like, I'm still trying to make it work today. I don't know what I've done over the past seven years to

still be at this point. I know what I've worked on myself, I know what I want out of my wife, but I can't verbally articulate to someone if you do these steps, this is what you do to have a healthy relationship, especially sexually, because we struggled with with uh sexuality in our relationship so much because I'm trying to do everything to be for her, She's trying to do everything to be for me, and it seems like sometimes

we just don't hit at the right spot. And then Melissa, she made a very good point that I never thought about from a man standpoint. As a woman, she was shamed for having any sexual desires her whole entire life. She grew up in Kevin on Stage wife, growing up down south, growing up in a Baptist culture. So the fact that you've been shamed your whole life, now you get married and you're supposed to be free sexually with this man as your husband. It's almost like that shame

doesn't go away. So now you're in the bedroom with this man and you're still feeling shamed, but you're trying to open up. I never thought about that from a woman's standpoint, and it kind of makes sense to me as a man. Now, why you you find a woman and you want to do all these things and you're asking her to open up, and she's kind of like, I don't know what you mean. I don't know. I've been doing this my whole life is you know? Learning that from her and listening to her perspective made me

realize that. And I want to ask you, what age do you start as a as a woman, A young woman to explore your sexuality. What ages is safe? Really? I mean, your sexuality is is a constant right. It is with you from the moment that you enter this world. It's with you from the time that you're an embryo, right, and so there's a constant need to explore question to figure it out. One of the best things I did in school for sexologies, we had this age by age

assessment of like what's normal sexual behavior? I'm like, everyone should read this because it's this idea that like, yeah, like you're constantly evolving as a sexual person and you should be aware of it. I think as even as a parent, you know, a lot of parents get concerned when they see there, Like my friend her seven year old was humping a laundry basket and she was like, really, like should I could take him to a therapist or

something wrong? Like this completely normal sexual behavior. You can talk about appropriate places to indulge, not appropriate places, but you can have that conversation about their body and it's age appropriate. But use the right terms. Don't lie because if you lie and they go to school and found out you made that storic stuff up, right, They're not

gonna come to anymore. As a trusted source because like mom and Dad don't know what they're talking about, clearly, all my seven and eight year old friends do not. So I'll stick over here exactly and when I and people don't always remember the details of anything, of any conversation, and I may not remember exactly what was said, but they will remember how they felt and if they felt awkward, if they felt lied to, if they felt embarrassed, They're

never going to reproach that discussion again. So I'd say I mean all throughout, but absolutely, I think for a lot of people in general, it's like such confusing messaging. And someone says to me about about dating, like in Christianity, it's like, don't date, don't date, don't date, and then all of a sudden you turn twenty eight, like why

aren't you marriage married? Right? It's yeah, and you should be married and you should be satisfying your spouse and you should be everything in the right way because now you have the red light to do it. But it was between like they're either like trying to make you abstain with everything in their body or they're pissed that you don't have four kids by now. It's it's funny you say that we have three boys, which a lot

of people know already. But um, two years ago we had an issue with Jackson and the cell phone, and we always tell a story where he had Kay's grandmother's cell phone and she was like, we gotta talk to Jackson. I'm like why, and he's like, I'm looking at his history, his search history, and he was looking up Twerking right, and he was looking up girls Twerking girls, tworking on Fortnite, girls, tworking on Justin Bieber girls, tworking in NBA two K And I was like, yeah, talked to him, So I

want to talk to him. And the first thing I did was trying to make him feel comfortable about having the conversation because he was clearly flustered, like I was looking at something I wasn't supposed to be looking at, you know, because we have all of the parental controls on his like I've had and stuff, but when my phone, I'm not a spy. I just want to know what my children are involved in what they're looking at, because the accessibility that they have to everything, I want to

be able to navigate and be able to educate. So no, I didn't think it was wrong that you're spy, but you are, so we had I love to turnaround. Just call me Dora everything. We got this thing on our house, this ring thing where you can see through the doorbell who's at the front door. And every time I go to the door to do something, all that hairs. Hey, hey, it's connected to her. She's like, what are you doing? Like, yo, you have problems. But I want to be sure that

I can educate my boys as much as possible. Going through the social media era where like K said, they have accessibility to everything you said started five, Jackson's already eight. I need to know what to do because I mean, clearly he's interested. Even even me. I'm looking through phones. A girl will come up. Before, when he was younger, a girl will come up and he was like, no, daddy, No now. Girl come up and he's like, hmm, you know what I'm saying. So obviously he's starting to get injury,

starting to feel things. And I remember when I was in third grade going to fourth grade, that's when I had my first little crush on the girl. I want to make sure that he knows how to handle these situations right way. Of course, be respectful, no, it's appropriate and inappropriate. What are some things that we can as parents due to prepare our young men and women to deal with their sexuality. I think we're looking for natural

segues into conversations. I think when people making an intentional talk, like even in a relationship, like we need to talk, doesn't matter if it's positive or negative. I'm scared, I'm stressed out. Whereas in if it's just like we're watching a TV show, like some parents said to me, Gray's Anatomy is like one of the best shows you can watch with your kids because so many health topics, so many topics about relationships come up, and it's a natural tie in to be like, oh, like, have you ever

had this happened to you? I think a big thing too as parents is using yourself be the change you wish to see in the world. So if you want your kids to be more and honest, be honest about yourself. I said as well on my parents my parents, My mom told the story of like, well I met your father and we fell in love, we got married, we had kids, and that was that. And I I'm not gonna feel comfortable coming to her at fourteen and being like Hey, I'm masturbated with a pickle yesterday. What's wrong

with me? Right? If this person is so perfect in their sexuality, why would I ever feel comfortable saying I'm looking up Justin bieber Torkin videos. So it's using your own self as an example, but looking for natural segways for the conversation just to become natural. Um that I actually was saying you guys like, oh, we don't what

advice would give to people. I think having this podcast is so incredible, Like just the intentionality and having to talk so much about your feelings, your experiences, looking for natural segways to reflect on your own relationships is perfect. Right.

So if you can kind of take that format with your kids and just if something comes up on TV or they're watching a video, you see something, use that as a way to ask questions, to share a story, to add a little bit tibit of knowledge in there, to say, oh, you know what, you should have to check out this book or watch this video that I did. And the more that the culture of conversation is just a natural dynamic in the relationship. It'll evolve over time

and appropriately as need be for them. And then my parents weren't super weren't open at all about talking about sex or anything. So a lot of things I figured out was like through the coldest winsterever or like friends and you know, fly girl and stuff. And I think what prevented me from being kind of you know, I guess being free sex sexually when I was younger was just the fair that I had a shame that I god forbid my mother or my father or somebody and

my family found that. So I kind of suppressed a lot of what I was thinking or had questions about because it was just a fair like don't do it, just don't do it, and that was just the answer. So I definitely don't want that approach with our boys, you know, especially young black men growing up in this uh this world today. I want to make sure that they have the right channels and they're fully informed about

what they need to be informed about. I guess just being you know, strategic and being tactful with the approach and the time we only have to think about it. Like in Caise sex sex is the only area in life where we employed the logic the more you know, the worst decisions you're gonna make, or the more reckless. You're going to make decisions base or that doesn't apply like anything, right. Yeah, if your kid wants to do skateboard and you want to show them as much information

positive negative, here's the success stories. Here's a kid who went to the hospital. Yeah, here's everything you have to know about it. Okay, go ahead. That will empower them to make better decisions for themselves. And also in the moment when things come up that are unexpected, they're going to have a catalog of information to go through. But in sex, we're like, oh if if I tell them

and then they you know what I mean. But we just don't want to be I think that's also the problem to people just don't want to be the ones like the schools like, well, I'm not saying it because I don't want to get blamed. The parents like, well, I'm not saying because I don't want to get blamed. And then the kids are like, well, I'll tell you. Here's this video I saw yesterday on corn hub dot com.

Pull up a chair. That's so true. But it also brings me to like why I asked about the kids, because I feel like we became better sexual partners when we started to unpact why she was the way she was with sex growing up, why I am way I am with sex growing up? And it made me realize, like them, if I have more communication with my parents, I probably would have been a better partner to my wife. If she had more communications, she would have been a

better partner to me. So I feel like people in relationships to start to rather than just say, let's work on our sex, let's unpack why I am the way I am before I even get in a relationship, Before the actual act of sex. There's the intimacy portion, there's the feelings portion, there's how we arrive at that physical and I think a lot of times people kind of forgo that to just be like, well, we just want to have sex, and how do we get to the

sex part? But there's so much more with a connection that you have with somebody and the feeling part that goes into it. So if that's lacking, it only makes sense why the physical becomes an issue or it feels for sometimes at least absolutely And also kind of like what you said, I learned a lot about sex through

watching porn help or watching spice. So what you expect your wife to do is from watching a porn star, and it's kind of like if you don't realize like that that it's like an exaggerated version of what sex is, then you expect that, and then when that person doesn't deliver it, you feel like they're failing you, you know. And I was victim to that because no one really spoke to me about sex. No one said that, hey,

sex is supposed to be this. When I turned ten was the first time I was introduced to Spice channel channel sixty nine on a cable box. Then I watched it. Oh, I watched it should get a sponsorship sixty nine. It's that's like amazing. I realized throughout my life what I thought sex was really wasn't what it was like. No, no woman is ever going to walk to your door and be like, hey, can somebody fix my pipes? Like that's just not that's not gonna happen in real life.

And then when it doesn't happen, you feel like my sex life supping unless you decided to do a little role play, and then it's like, okay, that may be some way that people are absolutely work for them in terms of you know, trying to get there. You know, like I just feel like people need to unpack how they learned about sex in their lives before they start

to have sex with other people. If they want to have sex for the rest of their life, that's important because we're stuck with each other for the rest of you reinventing it. Like I always say to partners when they're like, I want to introduce something new, Like the two best ways are porn number one or number two? Using fantasy I had a fantasy about you and me, or I had a dream last night. What do you

think about trying this right? Or it's like, hey, there's this thing, this video that I saw, What do you think about trying this the same capacity? And then of course you take that and understanding because you know, porn is to sex what w w E is to fighting. Right, That's just the great analogies you have here. What do you say for couples who say one person is saying, you know what, I want to try something different in the bedroom, so they decided to go for a toy

like I did. Yeah in my story, and the other is not as receptive to it, whether it be the man or the woman, or the woman and the woman or the man of the man. How do you now encourage people to introduce things like that into a relationship or into the bedroom without the other feeling away about it. What's kind of like what Devil was saying about that understanding of the years that it's taken you in terms of shame, and so what a lot of people tend to do is like, Okay, just say I want to

try threesome. Now, I have watched hours of threesome videos, and I have read books on it, and I've talked to friends about it, and I've done all this research. When I come to my partner, I have the benefit maybe of two plus weeks, maybe even two months of research, and I'm putting it on you in this moment to make a decision and be on the exact same page

as me. It doesn't really work that way, And that could be something even as toys like you've got all the sites, you've read, the reviews, you asked, your friend, you had an interview, You're like, okay, great, I feel empowered now. My partner and their partners at ground zero. So you can't expect for them to be on the exact same page of you in the exact same moment. So you may want to start off with, hey, here's what,

here's some different catalogs. We think it's cool. Let's make a trip to the sex toy shop so we can learn together from like a guide and see what feels exciting for us, like what's good for you, what's good for me, and then give the person some space, you know. So there's so you have to go through the process together, not just because for for us sometimes it's like let me spring it on him. That would be exciting, because you don't see that that works a lot. What couple

if it does, great, you know what I mean. It's kind of like if I said to you, like, let's try rabbit today and you're like, I've never eaten rabbit before. There's a lot of research I want to do before I'm ready to try rabbit, where some people maybe I'm down. It kind of depends on what your partner is like. But the expectation shouldn't be there because you weren't there on day one when you first heard about the idea, you were like, that's interesting. Let me look into it

some more. So I think giving that space is great, and it's a benefit if your partner has already done the research because they can just share it with you for sure. Absolutely, Wow, so much to do, There's still more to learn about this whole questions. Um, So for a guy like myself who works out a lot, whose sex drive is very, very high, and I have my beautiful wife who every time I look at her, like

you said, I just I want to have sex with her? Right, what do we do to continue to keep this thing going so that it doesn't become a resentment thing towards one or the other. Because we've also been told she's been told about plenty of people. When she turns forty, it's gonna flip. Her sex drive is going to be high, is going to be several women in that tree. They're like, don't worry, don't worry, because it's going tables are going turn and he's not gonna be able to keep up

with you. And I'm just waiting for the day counting there. Well, all the changes are good, I think, like any change in your sex life forces you to examine it and to start having more discussions. And I've heard both. I've heard preman bosl people who are not interested. I've heard people who are are very interested. I've heard thirties as women's sexual peak. And so I've applaud anybody who finds like a second wind or something exciting, and you already

found a new position that you like. Maybe that in itself will spark you to be like, I'm more intrigued, but understanding what her turn on trigger is maybe allowing her once in a while to be the one who actually instigates, and so that empowerment like let me choose, like let me pick the time in the place, and also to like, as a mom and as a businesswoman, I'm sure sometimes the end of the day is an ideal if there's a two pm window and you guys

are both free and like, that kind of makes more sense, like go with that as opposed to try and like some people say scheduling sex, which I think can work for some couples. Yeah, I can just see that, Like you, it sets up an expectation to be a field disappointment, because what if you don't feel like in the mood

of the time, what if you're tired? I will say, as like, this bonus fact is like Dr Ian Kerner found that some women's sexual arousal cycle doesn't kick in until five ten minutes into four play, so you may not even feel like doing it until you're like ten minutes in. I raised my hands. So that's where scheduling can be useful, where it's like, Okay, we set the intention and that's the scientific fact that's five to ten

minutes into it. Because I'm not gonna lie. Sometimes sometimes I try to, you know, I try to gauge whether she's in the mood. And what I don't want to do is I don't want to like force get her in the mood because then it doesn't seem genuine. I don't want her to feel like she's forced to have sex. But then I tell him that's where the intimacy factor comes in. So if you're doing things to try to get me there versus just like you're ready to go, Yes,

you appreciate that. I appreciate that. Yeah, but sometimes it's turn off for me as a man, Like I'm trying to get you in the mood and you don't seem like you in the mood. It's like, all right, I don't want to bother her. You know, that can be a turn off for me. So it's like, sometimes it's like what could be a trigger for you, it's not triggering me at all. So now you may be in the move five minutes, ten minutes into four play, but I've been doing this and you've been looking this interested,

but now I'm not interested. And then sometimes I know, like it's been like a day or two, and I'm like, he's gonna want to do it, So I'll go take a shower and then I will take it upon myself to get myself in the mood for a couple of minutes. So if he knows I'm in the bathroom a little longer, it's probably because I'm out there doing something to myself recently.

And then I'll come to him more ready, so it's like, okay, we both meet meeting each other at this level of like intensity, and then we can get get a pop in because he may not want to have to put the work, and sometimes he probably wants me to come and just be ready so he can be like, no,

it's no, I don't mind putting the work in. I just hate feeling like I'm forcing my wife to have sex like that to me just doesn't It doesn't do anything for me, like I want to have sex with someone who wants to have sex with me, so if I feel like, I know she's tired, I know she's not in a mood at that point already. I'm just like, it's just not I'm not entire scene because I don't want to put that on her. I really don't like. I honestly feel like she gave me three kids, all right,

let me just wait until she's in the mood. But then waiting ends of being four or five days, and I'm like, you know, if you haven't had sex since like last week Thursday, And she's like, okay, okay, I do, I remember, but but I get it though, I just don't know. We're just trying to figure out how You've been trying to figure out how to make it work. Because she'll say to me, she's like, well, if you want to have sex, why don't you just come on to me, And I'm like, because I don't. I don't

want to. I want you to want it, like I don't you know what I'm saying, Like that's been our biggest issue lately, and we both understand that, like we're understanding, but we're both trying to figure out what we can do to kind of make it work, you know, I mean you're doing all the right things to have the discussions, looking for the compromise you can both do like the key the three flagpoles of a good relationship or I'm

going to ask. I was like, what are the big maybe the three three tips or the three things that you can give for better sex or you know, whatever you feel the three tips hard to give us give us some takeaways for our list for sex on give three. But relationship is just like self insight, emotional regulation and mutuality and off inside is like what can I do?

Emotional regulation, how I feel is not always right, so that ego regulations that sometimes that's even that conversation with yourself when you get that ego like they should just want me. Then being like, scientifically, this weird can get love right now? Does it really work that way? Every time said scientifically, it's not that big of a deal. And I know she wants me. I know that I'm hot, I know that I'm fired. We had this amazing conversation, like I know I did an incredible job last time.

I know she takes five minutes to get into it. So you know what, it's not a big deal for me to give her a specific compliment and the fact that she has laser away all her booty whole hair

that looks amazing. Absolutely what I mean like just something that you know and I think as well for you, like I think working yourself out and be like, Okay, let me give myself the moment to get into the zone so I can approach my partner, so that mutuality of I'm gonna go the extra mile for my partner because I know they'll go the extra mile for me. And as long as you guys keep doing that, you're going to find the balance somewhere. See, that's the key.

That that is the key, like continuing to work on your self and be in a position where you're willing to go to the extra mile for your partner. I know if I continue to do that for k she'll be willing to do that for me. And that's what people always ask People always ask, like what makes you all work? I really feel like that's what it is.

It's not going to be perfect. Every single day. We're going to express that it's not perfect, but we're going to continue to work to try to reach whatever level of perfection we can reach because we'll never reach it. So that that when you think about your friend relationships that don't work. If you put it to that like three litmus test, you can always see where the breakoff point is. Where it's like one person and they get that stale made of like, well, I'm not doing it

because you didn't do that. I'm not doing they have strong person. That's just I'm not going to bend and you can't do that in a relationship. I like that term of emotional regulation. Yeah, I think that that's very very important. When I hit you with the baby, I'm not emotionally not in that context to prescribe somebody prescribe. I'm talking hypothetically before we go. You have to just give us, you know, for better sex, tap three things for better sex. I would say sex never gets dull

if you're authentically expressing yourself in the moment um. There was this study that they had people who were hearing impaired have sex versus people who you know, have hearing, and the sounds were completely different. That's just because like our sexuality is so much more socialized than we think. It's so much more performance based. And so if you can just give yourself an authentic space to make the

sounds you want to the faces you want to. My husband was my friend's Benefits first, and the reason I chose them as a friends of benefits is like the first day that we were like sexual, his hands were down there and I looked at his face and he was like a painter. It was just such so like this beautiful expression with his hands were moving and it was just such an authentic expression felt in the moment.

So if you can try your best to detach yourself when you think you're supposed to be doing sounding like looking like expressing in the bedroom and just really respond to what's going on, sex will always be different. So really just being in the moment. But just like if that weird sound wants to come out, so be it. If you have to, like you know, let out a vaginal fart, let it go. Like all those things are going to allow you to make it different and fresh

every time. Number two, I'd say mixing sensations. Um, if you want to spice things up, like there's if you can do this, that's a nice feeling, But if you can do this and do that at the same time,

it's a new feeling altogether. And so even if you know while you're going down on your partner, you give them like a booty massage, or you rake the inner parts of their thighs, or massage their mom's pubis like, there's so many different things when I'm not the place where you're where your pubic care girls, she said, your mom's like she just got weird in here. I know you the sex salagist, but whatever they do with that, come on, I get you anatomy together. We're gonna go

not alright. And the final one I would say is just like yeah, like mixing um. I would go with like listening to fantasy, asking about fantasies, having conversations with your partner about, you know, their sexual fantasies, and making sure that communication is not always negative. I think we think about communicating about sex. It's expressing when we don't

like something. But I love what we did at the top of this episode that like, last time, what you did was amazing and that made me feel like and I think that made him feel like, all right, so let's try that again. And the excitement around wanting to try that again, you know what I mean. And it's like the crunchy, the crunchy sushi role that you're talking about It's like it was great in that moment, but it can just be that go to that we know it's going to be guaranteed a good time. Yeah, and

have some like spicy Mayo next time. Parents. I'm like, that's not the right analogy, but it worked in the moment. It works, ye, spicy o and sex probably does not tax at all. I see what the plan is here to get me to not want to have sex. We didn't talked about your mom's pubis. We're talking about sushi.

I see what's going on here. You're amazing. Thank you so much for coming on today and talking about everything sexually related, because you know, we appreciate you and we know we're not the only ones that have issues, you know, with it, and it may not even just be a couple's thing and maybe an individual thing people trying to explore their sexuality and just knowing that there's nothing wrong

with that, you know, nothing wrong with that. We have some listener letters where people right in and they give us, you know, questions and scenarios and they want our advice. Do you mind sticking around to talk to I just want to say thank you for having me and thank you for the work that you guys do, and I've learned so much. I'm really appreciative. Thank you for sure. And before we move into listener letters, tell everyone where

they can find you. Tell us about your book, your website, everything, give us all the good. So my book is the game of desire. The quiz I spoke about turn on triggers is the game of desire dot com for sure? And are you on social media like Instagram and all that? Ye, you know what, you get one wish people, I'm gonna leave it at that, and like, go to the website, take the quiz. She's gonna really win. Then you're gonna be looking for her. That's all that. That's all that means.

All right, we're gonna move into a quick break and move into listener letters, but we're gonna listen to some ads first. All right, this for the record. There it is a win for the ages. Tiger Woods is one of our most inspiring sports icons. In his story, it comes with many chapters. I am deeply sorry from my irresponsible and selfish behavior, but here it is the return to glory. This is All American, a new series from

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of the show. When Candee's favorite part of the show, the listener letters. We're also going to keep sharing with us. Yes, sexologists, sex specialists, sex Let's get to these listener letters. Okay, a question number one. My husband and I have been together fourteen years and married seven years. We also have three whole boys, oh five and three, very close. Just started support group. In the beginning we had NonStop sex. Literally. After three kids, we slowed down to about two times

a week. Yes, I know it's bad, but don't judge me. I'm tired. I know, girl, I know you are. Because of the high courts of daycare. I worked the night shift and he watches the boys and vice versa. I get about four hours of sleep throughout the day because I'm watching our kids doing laundry, cleaning, cooking, doctor's appointment, drop balls and pick ups from school, and two separate sports practices. I know goes. I mean, I'm basically a stay at home mom, so when he gets home, sex

is the last thing on my mind. What is some advice you can give us to help with our sex life, Shan, We talked with this whole time. Do you guys take the ball on this one? O m G. First of all, we have like parallel lives here almost with the exception of working night and that's I've heard just from people who work night shifts. For example, like my one of my good friends, she was she's a nurse and used

to work the night shift. That in itself apparently throws off your whole cheat, like everything is just off once you're working night. Um, and I know what it's like like this it being the last thing on your mind. You're just being so super tired. But I'm sure that's because you're asking about it. It's something that's important to you, it's important to your husband's important to your marriage. At this point, Sis, I feel like although we said this

is something maybe not ideal for some people. You may have to schedule it in like in your mind and not schedule it in saying honey, this is the time we're gonna have sex. Meet me here, but you knowing in your mind that I'm going to have to schedule sex in with my husband a little more frequently than we've been doing two times a week. That maybe a lot for some people. Maybe it's not. Maybe you know

your husband needs more. But I would probably just have to just suck it up sometimes and say, you know what, I'm tired, But like I do, sometimes I'm in the shower, I'll get myself going real quick knowing that you know what, I'm just going to jump on him in surprising with that, and then he'll appreciate it more because he feels as, wow,

she actually took the initiative to initiate sex with me. Um, But mentally do it for yourself, Like Devo doesn't know what, I have a mental calendar when I know sometimes like shoot, so times I miss a day. He was like, you know, it's been like two or three days, right, And I'm like, damn. But I normally have that mental you know, calendar in my head where I know, okay, it's approaching day two,

almost three. I may not necessarily be in the mood, but for him I have to pull him in the shower with you if you have to, you know what I mean, like making a situation where it's something a little bit different, so you know it's not going to be just the monotony of getting in bed, because we had struggle with that too. That's the one thing I hated was the end of the night and it's the height and we're in bed and it's slight, let's roll over and have sex. I hate that he hates that.

You know, so knowing what your man likes and just trying to really meet him halfway. I think the joy is that this question is so common, and that means that one you're not alone. And too there is no magic answer, because if there was, it would have been given on every single right you'd all be happy. A

lot of it is trial and error. But I love that you actually suggested two times a week, Like, there is massive amounts of health benefits to orgasming into sex in general, and doctors recommend two times a week to get the best matter benefits from it. Oh dope, Okay, so and that might have to actually relax. She says she was down to two times a week, so they were used to doing it more than that. We've slowed

so she needs to get that third time. And at least the doctor said two is enough our blood pressure. Maybe there's other things other than actual intercourse. Maybe there's something you can do for him, and you're giving him oral sex one of those days out the week to make it a third for him, you know, that's what we have to do something. But I wonder, I wonder if it's that she doesn't want to have sex. Well, she's just tired. She says, she's tired. She's just tired.

So he still wants to have of course, yeah he does. Well, he's not doing as much as much chores as her. But I know she's saying that she's she's like to stay at home mom and she works. She works at night. Yeah, so that's a lot. Well, we got this thing that we do now. It's called closet time. Oh yeah, this

is called closet time. It's something that we've created where when I noticed at the point where I was like, you may be tired or something, but I let her know, like early in the day, like, Yo, we need some closet time at some point throughout the day when she knows that I'm not gonna want to get into bed and have sex, so she'll pick any timeout to and she'd like, come meet me in the closet right now. Wow,

that's something we started. Maybe we have a big closet now that we've moved so we can actually fit in me. You'll come behind me and whisper like I love it. She just knows like, at some point during the day, I'm just surprised, surprised what you would be Like I'm in one part of the house, he's in another part, and I'll texting like meet me in the closet, you know, and that becomes like our things. So that's why we've been smiling lately, because does look incredible both of you.

The closet. It's the classet, girl, where the magic goes down stays in the classes. See if you can find a closet in the house, run away from the kids and textio Hub and be like me in the closet all right, FaceTime, and when you all naked, if you put on something sexy and be like, see, come meet me in the closet. There you go, Yes, there you go.

All right, I's a question number two. One topic I have mixed feelings about with my husband is he tends to resort to pourn when I'm not in the mood or when he doesn't want to put in the effort to get me in the mood, because he's like to vow and he wants it daily. And I'm definitely like codeine, where every day can seem like you need to be having a crazy amount of energy to get freaky, and my husband is definitely no one minute man. I obviously want him to be sexually satisfied. And it was also

a habit he had before we met. I guess yeah. So I've discussed it with him and he sees nothing wrong with it, and I've never made a huge issue out of it, as I'd rather he do that than have the urge to cheat on me. I'm worried it's allowing us to lose our intimate connection. It's porn. Something you guys deal with or have concerns with. Thoughts on it? Thanks, I think I think I said earlier. Um, I feel like I had unfair expectations for the woman I was

going to marry by watching so much. Point, because I did watch a lot of porn, I personally did not like watching porn once I got into a relationship because I felt like, if I have a girlfriend and we're going to be monogamous, I don't wanna have to satisfy myself. So that's why I would always put the pressure on her to have sex every time, Um, I wanted to have sex. Then, like we said before, you have to

realize how unfair that is. So then I was just like, you know what, maybe if I don't watch porn and I was just kind of center myself when I wasn't having sex, the sex would be that much better when we actually had sex and not for nothing. That's what's worked for me. You know what I'm saying. I don't watch porn nearly as much as I used to. Number one, because I got three kids, don't have any time, and when I with my wife, I want to spend time

with her. So I think point can be an issue if it's a m if it becomes a distraction from intimacy and from your family life. But I do understand where she's coming from as far as saying I'd rather him watch porn than go cheat. We had our moments like that because I was just especially like post baby and stuff like that. He was extremely understanding of of course I just had kids and stuff like that. So you know, even after the sixth week and we can

still have sex. I just wasn't there physically. I wasn't there emotionally. I was not in tune with him sexually. So sometimes I would just be like just go, like, go watch some porn. I got no satisfaction from. I rather be with my wife. I'd rather have that connection, that animalistic attraction, that that fight in the bed. You know what I'm saying, Like I want that, Like watching porn doesn't do it for me like that. What's your take on porn? And I mean you spoke lightly on it,

but couple particularly. I think porn is neutral. It's neither good nor bad. It's neither healthy nor is it toxic to a relationship. It's how somebody interacts with it. I would say, make a really strong effort to ensure that your opinion is based on your relationship, not on like an outside perception. I think that there's this idea that porn is bad in relationships, and so if your partner is watching it. It It sounds like she's like, we have

an okay, agreement with it. But I worry if I'm doing something wrong because maybe I've heard my friends say, like I don't let my husband watch porn, or I would never did it out. And if it's like no, if this is the way that you guys are managing your mismatch sex drive, it's also a way that allows you to have the time that you want for yourself. And I like, like what you just said, like they're not They're not apples to apples. It's a very different experience.

And even like masturbation and partner play, I'm not the same thing. Masturbation might be a part of your individual wellness, while partner plague is about a connection with each other and also individual wellness. And so I would just really have the question of is this that big of a deal. Maybe I think that it might be, But if our connection is faltering, then yes we should examine how porn

might be impacting that. But I think someone can have a healthy relationship with porn and a healthy sexual relationship with their partner and those two things not be mutually exclusive. That's one thing I like that you said that may so much sense. Was not listening to outside people's idea of what should be okay in your relationship, because we do see that with a lot of our married friends, the whope I wouldn't let my and then that becomes bible to people. But that may not work for you.

And I appreciate that because I mean, we we live by that now. When we were younger, we definitely were kind of like trying to be the cookie cutter version of what married couples are. But now it's like, yeah, I'm gonna do a work for k, K, gonna do a work for the vow and that might work this week, and it might not work next week. We're gonna learn, and we're gonna learn. We're gonna talk about it. You know,

my therapist told me. My therapist told me that I may have two much of a connection into this one woman. Like this is what she told him. She said, Listen, you love your wife a lot, clearly a lot, but it could be a point where it's a little unhealthy because you rely on her for every aspect of what you consider to be your happiness. And when she told me that, I had to kind of like take a step back and be like, you know what, She's right, and I'm doing at some point, I can't hold up

to my end of the bargain. Whatever this end of the bargain is, I'm not able to do it. So I felt super inadequate so many times because I was just like, damn, I can't can't get it right, And it was super frustrating for me, and it was very like disheartening at some points because I felt like I can't beat this man happy. He's not satisfying, and there's something wrong with me, like to the point where I was just like, I need to see a doctor because

something's wrong with my sex drive. And and then a friend of mine, who you know, she's into like all of these all natural health food store, you know, concoctions, she was just like, but you just had a baby, like you're your Mormon you was gonna be like Eatum's pubist, because she was pretty much like, let your damn hormones level out a little bit and then we can reassess if you legitimately have a problem or are you just still recovering from having a whole baby. Maybe that's what

it is. And I was like, oh, I think you're right. I had two babies back to back, so maybe that's what it is. So now if I have any issues, I'm like, girl, send me them roots and them tease. I'm drinking if I have to drinking to just try to keep up with this guy. But we were two years out of baby, but it's still just also learning yourself. Are you guys? Will in Jada fans like are you yeah? So their whole met them? We just met. I gotta show you the sex down by the way. That's amazing.

We just met. We just met them. Um, we're big fans. It's funny. Wills icon as an actor. Yes, I'm an actor, cod as an actor. She's a TV host. Of course. Jada has rented people automatically say you know, well, you guys are going to be our generation version of Will and Jada. I look up to them more for their relationship then I do anything else outside of you know,

like TV or less of no matter. No, it's the way they they manage their children, the way they manage their relationship because they don't call it a marriage, you know, And it's just like it's interesting to see and they did it while in Hollywood. Oh my god, that's recent the Tyler Perry, Yes, the pure Yeah, that's amazing. You look beautiful. Oh my gosh, that is the perfect day

to meet them. That you were so so humble and just so personal, and you know when you admire someone from Afar for so long and then you finally get to meet them and they're everything you thought they would be in more. Yeah, that was such a heartwarming, like we literally were Actually I want to ask you to send it to me, even though it has no relatance to my life, and I'm like, I have that you can.

I understand it because that's how I feel about them as well, especially listening to them on Red Table Talk. They're very transparent, like Kadan and I are in a very unapologize There's some things that Will has said verbatim that I'm like, oh my god, it's to the point where it's scary. It is because it's literally like the same thing that he has said at some point to me about our relationship because we have so many conversations openly, and I was just like, this is insanity. So it

was really refreshing and I sed to meet them. Yeah, I love their theory that relationships are b y o H, bring your own happiness, and that that was something that they've learned recently and through. They actually don't say marriage anymore, they just say life partners. Yeah, exactly where it starts. We've our relationship got so much better when I said, listen, kay, you you figure out what's gonna make you happy. I'm gonna figure out was gonna make me happy, and then

we're just gonna share it. We're going to share it with each other for the rest of our lives. And there's just been so many more celebratory moments, yes, so many, and not so much of you're not doing this right, you know what I'm saying. It was more now like I need to find out how I and do learn to do this and ship it with you and we can do it together. I feel like that was the moment in truth, all of us, a moment of truth

all in it. I do because we normally end every episode with talking about what our moment of truth was for this episode, like what did we learn? What was our takeaway? And I feel like it was kind of wrapped up in one there, H bring your own happiness and your mom's pubis and sprinkling with a little tumoring God. Thank you for sticking around with us. Shan. Please make sure you guys go out and take a look. You've

been a thank you. Fame of desire. Absolutely the quiz will be curious to know how y'all worked out with that quiz. I'm gonna go take it because I'm still trying to learn. Yes, myself and this guy, and be sure to follow us on social media. That's I am devout and I am and if you're listening what Apple podcasts, be sure to rate, review and subscribe. Dead Ass is a production of Stitcher. It's produced by t Square and Genora Pinion. Our chief content Officer is Chris Banning. Our

associate producers are Kristen Torres and Treble. Our studio engineers are Brandon Burns and Andy, Kristen's daughter. We're back. I'm Drew McCarry and I'm David Roth. We have a podcast going on right now. It's part of the Stitchen network called Abstraction that's available everywhere. Get the podcast at Stitcher, Spotify, Apple, Go listen right now to the Distraction right now, it's out. Do it. Please,